Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: rbmorse on November 29, 2011, 02:09:23 pm

Title: NEX 7 review
Post by: rbmorse on November 29, 2011, 02:09:23 pm
Please excuse my ignorance, but in part three of Michael's rolling review of the Sony NEX 7 he refers to "downsizing" images to match the size of those from the NEX 5N for comparison.  I know what he's talking about, but exactly how does one do that? 
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: henk on November 30, 2011, 12:02:24 am
I also would like to see the results when up-sizing the NEX 5!

Henk
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: michael on November 30, 2011, 08:45:40 am
Downsizing, down-ressing, whatever you want to call it, is simply done in Photoshop or a similar program. Image / Image Size, and then select "Resample". Enter a new size. Choose Bicubic Sharper for reduction.

The file will now be reduced in size, either in dimension or pixel count depending on settings.

To answer the second question, it needs to be pointed out that while "downsampling" and "upsampling" are both destructive in that they charge the original image, downsampling removes data while upsampling has to "invent" pixels, and therefore almost always degrades IQ. But, it's not that simple since the distance at which the image will be viewed plays a roll in both cases.

Michael
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Rob C on November 30, 2011, 05:19:46 pm

 "...plays a roll in both cases."

Michael





On a drum would have been better!

;-)

Ciao -

Rob C
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: michael on November 30, 2011, 05:53:06 pm
Spelling was never my forte.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Rob C on December 01, 2011, 03:36:02 am
Spelling was never my forte.




You should see mine when I'm in a prog that doesn't work with my red underliner! Er... no, that's not makeup. Actually, best not seeing me in such programmes.

;-)

Rob C
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: ErikKaffehr on December 03, 2011, 10:55:05 am
I have never noticed ;-). But it is not my forte, eighthere ;-)

BR
Erik


Spelling was never my forte.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: ixania2 on December 04, 2011, 06:22:34 pm
Michael, could you please compare the raw image quality of nex-7 with zeiss 24/1.8 to the fuji x 100?
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: JimGoshorn on December 04, 2011, 06:50:45 pm
Michael,

Did you notice any difference between the 5n and 7 when using the Leica lenses? Some people have posted that they find the lenses worked better with the 5n.

Thanks!

Jim
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: michael on December 04, 2011, 07:39:10 pm
Depends on the lens. Watch for the next installment of my rolling review later this week..

Michael
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: DaveCurtis on December 05, 2011, 01:33:14 am
Michael, that Summilux is an impressive lens. Did it's sharpness hold out reasonably well into the corners?
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: michael on December 05, 2011, 06:33:01 am
Yes, look at the corner samples shown. On prints both lenses are good even wide open and excellent by f/2.8.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Kenneth Sky on December 05, 2011, 08:05:20 am
Michael
I'm sure most of us agree that it's all about the print. But could you comment on the ergonomics of this lens with the NEX 7. Is it too heavy as a walk around lens? What about the build? Is it truly moisture resistant?
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: michael on December 05, 2011, 08:43:42 am
The lens is relatively light, comfortable to handle, and would make a perfect walk-around lens.

I have no idea about moisture resistance, sorry.

Michael
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Fine_Art on December 05, 2011, 01:32:18 pm
Arg. I wish Michael had not done the review of the Nex 7 with the 24 Zeiss/ Leica. Now I am itching for a new camera when I already have 2 Mamiyas, 2 Minoltas and 2 Sonys.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: alsand on December 05, 2011, 05:44:44 pm
Hi Michael,

Thanks so far for the rolling review.

I'm kinda in doubt; I'm kinda attracted to the Nex-7 (portablity/IQ.../handling/looks...) as well as the 5Dmark2 (full frame/IQ/ISO performance/L-glass).
Strange - two different girls...

However at the end of the day IQ (dyn.range/color/sharpness/contrast/noise) remains the one decisive point.
Can you tell me from experience how does the Nex-7 with good lenses (zeiss...) compare to the 5Dmark2 with general purpose L-lenses (ie the 24-105)
Sales people tell me the 5D is a different league, not comparable.
From handling point of view: Yes, but from IQ point of view ...

Would appreciate your opinion(s).

Al
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: michael on December 05, 2011, 06:45:04 pm
Well, if you do a DxOMark comparison (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/736%7C0/(brand)/Sony/(appareil2)/483%7C0/(brand2)/Canon) you see that the overall rating for the sensors is very close, with the NEX-7 having a very small overall advantage.

Since they also have similar resolution (the NEX-7 a bit higher) I would judge them to be quite comparable.

Lenses will make the greatest difference when it comes to IQ.

Michael
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: alsand on December 06, 2011, 04:27:57 pm
Close call indeed, the 5D is mainly behind on dynamic range, it's a difficult desicion.
I think I'll wait till some real world comparisions show up...

Thanks
Al
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Robert57 on December 07, 2011, 09:07:52 am
Michael, your rolling review is a fantastic service to all of us enticed by the NEX series. Most online discussions of legacy lenses for the Nex 5n and 7 revolve around rangefinder lenses, rather than DSLR or film SLR wide- angle lenses. Could you please comment on Canon or Nikkor SLR wide- angle lenses? I have old Nikkor 24mm and 35 mm IA lenses I used for years with my Nikon F3, and would love to be able to use these with the Nex-7, with full manual operation and focus peaking. I wonder how their IQ, and edge aberrations, would compare with the new Zeiss 24mm E mount.

Thanks so much for your superb reviews and helpful insights/ conclusions.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: michael on December 07, 2011, 10:44:18 am
I can't give a definitive answer, but since almost all DSLR lenses are of retrofocus design they should work fine.

Michael
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: ErikKaffehr on December 07, 2011, 11:49:44 am
Hi,

DxO-mark measures sensor characteristics only. In that regard it seems that NEX 7 is pretty good, but Canon is a bit handicapped in DxO-mark regarding DR at low ISO.

Michael is absolutely right about lenses mattering most. A smaller sensor will make heavier demands on the lenses.

Perhaps Michael has the opportunity to compare the NEX 7 with his Alpha 900, that would perhaps be a valid comparison.

Best regards
Erik



Well, if you do a DxOMark comparison (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/736%7C0/(brand)/Sony/(appareil2)/483%7C0/(brand2)/Canon) you see that the overall rating for the sensors is very close, with the NEX-7 having a very small overall advantage.

Since they also have similar resolution (the NEX-7 a bit higher) I would judge them to be quite comparable.

Lenses will make the greatest difference when it comes to IQ.

Michael

Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: michael on December 07, 2011, 03:16:14 pm
Afraid that my A900 is in Toronto and I and the NEX-7 are in Mexico. The twain won't meet till spring.

Michael
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: jfirneno on December 07, 2011, 03:37:40 pm
Mr. Reichmann:

First of all, thanks for your very interesting (and in my case) and useful article on the NEX-7.  I currently use a 5N as an indoor alternative to a Sony A850 and find the manual focus capability with various legacy lenses highly enjoyable.  I anticipate that based on your article I'll either get a NEX-7 when they become available or get whatever the successor to it is sometime next year.

Secondly, in view of some of the rumors that have circulated about full-frame Sony cameras next year, could you imagine that Sony would create a sort of hybrid NEX/Alpha by putting a full-frame sensor in a full-size body but with a NEX e-mount connector so that it could be used either with legacy full frame lenses via adapters or with alpha lenses via either the LA-EA1 or LA-EA2.  Personally I think that would be a great camera but maybe I'm missing something about that idea that wouldn't make sense.

Regards,
John
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: canlogic on December 07, 2011, 08:23:13 pm
Afraid that my A900 is in Toronto and I and the NEX-7 are in Mexico. The twain won't meet till spring.

Michael


I would be happy to pick it up and bring it down there.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: HJW on December 08, 2011, 03:49:27 am
Just a note to point out that the 12mm/5.6 Voiglander lens is definitely a retrofocus lens. The only lens near this focal length I know of that is symmetrical is the Hologon, and that is a 15 (or later, 16mm). The 15mm/4.5 Voigtlander is also retrofocus.

If the two Voigtlander lenses had not be designed as retrofocus lenses, metering on the M6 and later cameras would have been impossible, and the two would have been totally useless on the M8 and M9. Just try using the Hologon on an M9. Or, for that matter, the 21mm/3.4 or f/4 Super Angulon lenses, which are also essentially symmetrical. That's also the problem with the 21/4.5 Biogon. The 21/2.8 Biogon is of definite retrofocus design.

An easy way to tell if a lens is retrofocus (or telephoto, for that matter), is to look through the front of the lens at a given aperture, and then through the back. If the aperture looking through the back is noticeably larger such as in the case of the 12mm, it is retrofocus. If it is noticeably smaller, it is telephoto. If similar, it is essentially of 'normal' design, and in the case of classic wide-angle lenses, usually symmetrical.

This take nothing away from the main points of the article, which clearly show which lenses can be used easily and with no extra contortions as opposed to those which, like the 12mm, may be retrofocus but are of insufficient retrofocal ratio to avoid the problems of imaging on digital sensors which are intolerant of sharply angled imaging rays (nearly all of them).

Henning
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Dennishh on December 11, 2011, 12:18:00 pm
Michael, Love your review! Is it possible for you to show us what the Zeiss 24 looks like on the NEX 7. I suppose you've already thought of this but thought I'd ask anyways. After lugging my 5DMK2 around Spain this summer I can't wait to lighten up my kit. Another thought was have you tried a pocket Wizard to sync it to portable flash on the 7, would love to see how the new sensor reacts to studio flashes.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Dennishh on December 12, 2011, 06:58:42 pm
Michael, Love your review! Is it possible for you to show us what the Zeiss 24 looks like on the NEX 7. I suppose you've already thought of this but thought I'd ask anyways. After lugging my 5DMK2 around Spain this summer I can't wait to lighten up my kit. Another thought was have you tried a pocket Wizard to sync it to portable flash on the 7, would love to see how the new sensor reacts to studio flashes.

Well I found my answer at http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/10/23/the-sony-nex-7-digital-camera-review-by-steve-huff/ suppose I should have known this but am new to this NEX thing. I also found out that you need a special hot shoe adapter to use a pocket Wizard that costs another $195,seems like a ripoff to me.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: ErikKaffehr on December 13, 2011, 12:39:53 am
Hi,

I guess that Pocket Wizard is not intended for Sony anyway. I'm not familiar with Pocket Wizard, but I would presume that Sony cameras cannot utilize it's features fully.

There are much cheaper hot shoe adapters than Sony's.

Best regards
Erik


Well I found my answer at http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/10/23/the-sony-nex-7-digital-camera-review-by-steve-huff/ suppose I should have known this but am new to this NEX thing. I also found out that you need a special hot shoe adapter to use a pocket Wizard that costs another $195,seems like a ripoff to me.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Dennishh on December 13, 2011, 09:12:29 am
Hi,

I guess that Pocket Wizard is not intended for Sony anyway. I'm not familiar with Pocket Wizard, but I would presume that Sony cameras cannot utilize it's features fully.

There are much cheaper hot shoe adapters than Sony's.

Best regards
Erik



If you haven't used the pocket Wizard how can you make a comment that it's not intended for the Sony? Off-camera flash isn't intended for this camera? Please tell me where there's a hot shoe adapter for the Sony that's cheaper?
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: michael on December 13, 2011, 09:32:57 am
Maybe not a solution for everyone, but the NEX-7's built in flash can act as a wireless trigger for Sony brand flashes. I imagine that it will do the same for any studio units with a detector, or an external unit like a Wein.

Michael
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: ErikKaffehr on December 13, 2011, 09:46:30 am
Hi,


1) http://www.pocketwizard.com/products/
 
2) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&Ntt=Sony+Hot+Shoe+Adapter&A=endecaSearch&N=0&Currency=EUR&Q=&InitialSearch=yes

Best regards
Erik

If you haven't used the pocket Wizard how can you make a comment that it's not intended for the Sony? Off-camera flash isn't intended for this camera? Please tell me where there's a hot shoe adapter for the Sony that's cheaper?

Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Dennishh on December 13, 2011, 10:12:15 am
Thank you for the link, this is great!
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Dennishh on December 13, 2011, 10:34:10 am
Thanks Michael for the info about the trigger! It sure would be nice to be able hook this up to the studio strobes, seeing that the images look good. I had another question about the size of the Zeiss 24 1.8, is it as big as it looks? How come the Fuji X 100 lens is so much smaller than the Zeiss? Is the Sony 16–50 F2 .8 with the A mount adapter about the same size as the Zeiss 24 on the camera? Does the Zeiss 24 have image stabilization? I'd love to see comparison between these two lenses?


Maybe not a solution for everyone, but the NEX-7's built in flash can act as a wireless trigger for Sony brand flashes. I imagine that it will do the same for any studio units with a detector, or an external unit like a Wein.

Michael
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: pindman on December 13, 2011, 12:11:45 pm
+1 I'd also like to see a comparison of wides for the NEX-7!  The ultrawide comparison was great.  How about in the full-frame equivalent of 20-24mm?  Michael?  Thanks in advance!

Paul

... I had another question about the size of the Zeiss 24 1.8, is it as big as it looks? How come the Fuji X 100 lens is so much smaller than the Zeiss? Is the Sony 16–50 F2 .8 with the A mount adapter about the same size as the Zeiss 24 on the camera? Does the Zeiss 24 have image stabilization? I'd love to see comparison between these two lenses?


Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: uaiomex on December 14, 2011, 02:06:23 am
Best APS camera ever! DPR just released their full review. Many things pointed out are just what Michael noticed and wrote (ing) about in his rolling review. Damn freacking serious awesome camera with serious bugs. Luckily, it seems mostly all of them can be fixed by firmware re-writing. Again, Nex 7 main drawback is the rickety lens line. Too much of a camera. Funny!
Eduardo
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: DaveCurtis on December 14, 2011, 02:39:18 am
I see conurus http://conurus.com/index.php  (http://conurus.com/index.php) are making a Canon EF lens adapter with auto aperture.

I wouldn't mind using the NEX 7 with my ZE primes.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Dennishh on December 14, 2011, 09:03:20 am
An adapter like this would be great! The NEX 7 is just what a lot of us have been looking for an in camera that we can carry around and lightens up the load but has the quality. I just did some calculations on weight between the NEX 7 and my 5DMK2 kit and found it to be more than 4 pounds less. After a few hours of carrying a bag around that 4 pounds sure will feel great. The NEX 7 lens selection should rapidly improve especially with the interests in this camera. Zeiss now knows they can make good money on its lenses so we should see a couple of pancake lenses from them. As a 1DsMK3 shooter I was particularly disappointed in the announcement by Canon. What I like about the NEX 7 is it's adapter to use Sony A lenses which means I can invest in some A glass that can later be used on a new Sony full frame camera. It hasn't been announced yet but if it uses the same technology as the NEX 7 and incorporates some more professional features, like live view it will be time to switch systems. Canon might preempt this with a couple of new cameras, but has to do that in the next few weeks or months to be successful. Nikon already has a great sensor and rumored to go up to that 36 megapixel point. For now my walk around system will the NEX 7, Zeiss 24 mm F1.8 and 50 mm F1 .8. I probably will add the A lens adapter and the Sony 16 – 50 F2.8 and a Zeiss 85 mm F1.4 at some point. But for now all we can do is wait and see.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: DaveCurtis on December 14, 2011, 02:00:53 pm
Yes, I shoot with a 1DS3 too and Im not sure exactly where Canon is heading other than video.

The NEX7 and my Zeiss primes seem to fit the bill in the short term. The other option is to jump the Canon ship all together. The truth is the NEX 7 is a great camera but good glass to do it justice will cost and is rather limited other than going to Leica etc.

D
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Dennishh on December 14, 2011, 02:09:14 pm
I probably would only jump to Sony if it was for their full frame camera and they had the new sensor. I imagine Canon will have to come out with a better 5D something. The NEX 7 will make a very nice backup/walk around camera especially with the Zeiss glass. I bet there will be low quite a few very good new lenses introduced in the next few months. Quite a few of the Sony/Zeiss lenses have a great rating, can't wait to try them out.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: theguywitha645d on December 14, 2011, 04:09:05 pm
Perhaps Michael has the opportunity to compare the NEX 7 with his Alpha 900, that would perhaps be a valid comparison.

Best regards
Erik




Erik, you can now see that comparison on DPreview.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: D!RK on December 14, 2011, 06:28:13 pm
Personally I shoot with the 5N and the M9P. I like both for various reasons. What I don't like on the Sony is the crop factor. The image that I get from my Summilux 50mm on the M9 I can not replicate with my 35mm 2.0. The 21mm lens that I really like just turns into an OK lens on the Nex. It would have been great if the test would have compared an image taken with a 35mm 1.4 on a Nex versus a 50mm 1.4 on a M9. Both would lead to similar images. I feel that a downsized image from a Nex 7 has more info than a cropped image from a M9. I may be wrong but the Nex has more detail in the same area to start with. D!RK PS I wish the Nex 7 gets better results because it would give me a reason to sell the Leica. Thanks for the review.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: AlfSollund on December 14, 2011, 06:49:42 pm
Thanks so much for the NEX-7 versus Leica test update. Just what I was looking for  8).  Great work indeed.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Joe S on December 15, 2011, 02:34:20 am
Very interesting information and truly a great time to be a photographer. 

The best real world comparison for me would be to photograph the same scene or test setup, at least as close as reasonably possible, using say a 50mm on the M9 and a 35mm on the Sony.   Use comparable lenses of comparable vintage and process using your best techniques and print at 16x20 and 24x36 and examine the results of the prints.   This would provide a real world comparison of how I could capture and print the same scene with each camera and what difference in results I might expect.   As I don't currently have access to either camera I will leave this to others!
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Joe S on December 20, 2011, 01:18:41 pm
Thanks Michael.  Great to see the new real world test.   Now all we need are some comparisons from the corners.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: ziocan on December 20, 2011, 03:23:35 pm
Hi,

DxO-mark measures sensor characteristics only. In that regard it seems that NEX 7 is pretty good, but Canon is a bit handicapped in DxO-mark regarding DR at low ISO.

Michael is absolutely right about lenses mattering most. A smaller sensor will make heavier demands on the lenses.

Perhaps Michael has the opportunity to compare the NEX 7 with his Alpha 900, that would perhaps be a valid comparison.

Best regards
Erik



you can see a test shot comparison at all ISO between the 2 cameras, at DP review.
IMO, the nex 7 shows a little more crispiness than the a900.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: Joe S on December 21, 2011, 01:30:54 pm
Would you provide a link to the DP comparison.
Title: Re: NEX 7 review
Post by: RBland on April 23, 2012, 02:31:04 pm
Thanks for the in-depth review.
My questions is, is there really no way to use a wired remote with the Nex-7? I do a lot of tripod work with bracketed exposures and from what I can gleen from other forums is that an IR remote release will work but with limited functions. Any thoughts out there. I would like this camera because of its weight to quality ratio (backpacking), but this is a show stopper to me. ???