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Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Jim-St on October 03, 2011, 02:47:23 pm

Title: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Jim-St on October 03, 2011, 02:47:23 pm
I've just installed Lion on my Mac Pro, and downloaded the latest driver for my Epson 3800. In the process I seem to have lost the ability to access the "Color" and "Color Settings" drop-down's under "Print Settings" in the driver menu: see screenshot - these are greyed out and inoperative

I'm trying to print from LR 3.5

Anyone suggest what's going on here?

Thanks in advance

Jim

Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: digitaldog on October 03, 2011, 04:33:53 pm
Not yet on Lion but I can tell you that in LR you do NOT want to use a preset as you show below (should be Standard, the saved settings are applied in LR itself when you save the print setup). So at the very least, try toggling to presets:Standard.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Wayne Fox on October 03, 2011, 04:59:21 pm
I've just installed Lion on my Mac Pro, and downloaded the latest driver for my Epson 3800. In the process I seem to have lost the ability to access the "Color" and "Color Settings" drop-down's under "Print Settings" in the driver menu: see screenshot - these are greyed out and inoperative

I'm trying to print from LR 3.5

Anyone suggest what's going on here?

Thanks in advance

Jim


Often when a setting becomes "greyed" out it is because OS X has installed the CUPS driver for the printer.  Whenever OS X sees a new printer it will by default load a driver for it, unfortunately sometimes with Epsons professional machines it isn't the one you want.

Things to try. In the printer preference pane, try to reinstall the printer.  You may or may not have to delete the previous printer (note if you do the  OS may quickly "reinstall" the wrong driver again.

You may have to do a compete clean out of your printing system which involves uninstalling all Epson drivers, then reinstall your printer driver.  (Here's my write up on how to do this (http://www.cwaynefox.com/myBlog/Printing/Entries/2009/12/8_TROUBLESHOOTING_EPSON_PRINTERS_AND_SNOW_LEOPARD.html)).
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Jim-St on October 03, 2011, 05:54:46 pm
Not yet on Lion but I can tell you that in LR you do NOT want to use a preset as you show below (should be Standard, the saved settings are applied in LR itself when you save the print setup). So at the very least, try toggling to presets:Standard.

Thanks Andrew - I'm surprised, as I've been saving Presets in the driver for paper-types etc as well as saving Print Settings in LR for as long as I've been using LR (since beta 1), but I take your point that it may be otiose. Not harmful, though, in my experience, and in the present circumstances I'm getting the same issues in the LR Print Settings dialogue as I do when going into  the driver after pressing "Print". Maybe Wayne's suggestion will sort this...

Often when a setting becomes "greyed" out it is because OS X has installed the CUPS driver for the printer.  Whenever OS X sees a new printer it will by default load a driver for it, unfortunately sometimes with Epsons professional machines it isn't the one you want.

Things to try. In the printer preference pane, try to reinstall the printer.  You may or may not have to delete the previous printer (note if you do the  OS may quickly "reinstall" the wrong driver again.

You may have to do a compete clean out of your printing system which involves uninstalling all Epson drivers, then reinstall your printer driver.  (Here's my write up on how to do this (http://www.cwaynefox.com/myBlog/Printing/Entries/2009/12/8_TROUBLESHOOTING_EPSON_PRINTERS_AND_SNOW_LEOPARD.html)).

Thanks Wayne - I've had a quick look through your blog piece tonight, and will have to look at it in more detail tomorrow morning. I'll post back tomorrow when I've had a chance to do a clean out and let folks know how it goes

Once again, thanks to you guys both!

Jim
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Jan Morales on October 03, 2011, 06:39:57 pm
I've just installed Lion on my Mac Pro, and downloaded the latest driver for my Epson 3800. In the process I seem to have lost the ability to access the "Color" and "Color Settings" drop-down's under "Print Settings" in the driver menu: see screenshot - these are greyed out and inoperative

Have you checked the Color Matching section? If it's set to ColorSync those printer settings will be greyed out. If it's set to EPSON Color Controls, they will be available.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Photo Op on October 03, 2011, 07:02:56 pm
Often when a setting becomes "greyed" out it is because OS X has installed the CUPS driver for the printer.  (Here's my write up on how to do this (http://www.cwaynefox.com/myBlog/Printing/Entries/2009/12/8_TROUBLESHOOTING_EPSON_PRINTERS_AND_SNOW_LEOPARD.html)).

Or maybe finally, Epson drivers (8.64 for 3880) have caught up to the fact that one has chosen the proper printer option settings in LR that result in these options NOT being available in the driver thereby avoiding double profiling. Maybe Mr. Schewe can offer an opinion?
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Schewe on October 03, 2011, 07:10:03 pm
Maybe Mr. Schewe can offer an opinion?

Maybe...I think the odds are he's got the CUPS version of the driver and will need to download the most recent driver from the Epson web site then do the most recent Epson Common Updater v7.0. Be sure to install the common updater AFTER the most recent driver.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Photo Op on October 03, 2011, 07:29:53 pm
Maybe...I think the odds are he's got the CUPS version of the driver and will need to download the most recent driver from the Epson web site then do the most recent Epson Common Updater v7.0. Be sure to install the common updater AFTER the most recent driver.

For the 3800 you're right it still requires the Common Updater. But, for the 3880, there's a new driver that specifically states that the Updater is not needed. So, back to the original request in my post (not trying to hyjack the OPs question) but Jeff, do you think Epson and Apple are finally playing nice with the latest driver for the 3880 that's compatible with Lion.

And on another note, how did you respond so quickly to a post containing your last name? I know you're GOOD, but that's scary! :)
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Schewe on October 03, 2011, 09:11:03 pm
So, back to the original request in my post (not trying to hyjack the OPs question) but Jeff, do you think Epson and Apple are finally playing nice with the latest driver for the 3880 that's compatible with Lion.

And on another note, how did you respond so quickly to a post containing your last name? I know you're GOOD, but that's scary! :)


I have no reason to think one way or the other...other than Apple is incredibly difficult to deal with on the corporate level. As for responding quickly, it was a thread I was watching...personally, I've NOT yet updated production machines to Lion. Just a clone of my boot drive for my laptop. I'm thinking 10.7.3 might be the time for me...I've got too many exotic equipment attached to production machines to "wonder" if stuff is gonna work as expected. 10.6.8 has been solid (once we got to 10.6.6 and above). Just sayin'...

:~)
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Wayne Fox on October 03, 2011, 11:52:35 pm
Dave, good catch.  I think you are right on this.  The dimmed items in the dialog box in the OP is something I haven't seen before, so like Jeff just guessing.  dimmed or lined out items in dialogs are a pretty normal symptom of the CUPS driver getting in the way.

HOWEVER, it appears the new driver is smart enough to know that when you choose application manages color (PS or LR), those options should not be selected and are greyed out.  If you choose Printer manages color from the application, they work as normal.  Just confirmed this with my 4900.

Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Photo Op on October 04, 2011, 03:37:25 am

HOWEVER, it appears the new driver is smart enough to know that when you choose application manages color (PS or LR), those options should not be selected and are greyed out.  If you choose Printer manages color from the application, they work as normal. 

Yup, that's my hope! Finally!
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Jim-St on October 04, 2011, 04:56:19 am
Often when a setting becomes "greyed" out it is because OS X has installed the CUPS driver for the printer.  Whenever OS X sees a new printer it will by default load a driver for it, unfortunately sometimes with Epsons professional machines it isn't the one you want.

Things to try. In the printer preference pane, try to reinstall the printer.  You may or may not have to delete the previous printer (note if you do the  OS may quickly "reinstall" the wrong driver again.

You may have to do a compete clean out of your printing system which involves uninstalling all Epson drivers, then reinstall your printer driver.  (Here's my write up on how to do this (http://www.cwaynefox.com/myBlog/Printing/Entries/2009/12/8_TROUBLESHOOTING_EPSON_PRINTERS_AND_SNOW_LEOPARD.html)).

I see this thread has developed overnight, and I'm now a little uncertain what to conclude re my issue.

However, I've set about trying to follow Wayne's method as per his blog post.

Not going too well, though, as I'm not able to perform the Uninstall from the new Driver installer - the option simply doesn't arise, and so it's just installed itself again. However, in the Print & Scan System Pref, under Options & Supplies, it clearly shows I've got the latest Epson Driver (v.8.64) installed in there. So I'm thinking maybe the issue is not that I'm using a CUPS driver after all. So it's something else...

I'd do the full de-crufting thing Wayne recommends if I could find the "Uninstall" option in the Epson installer, so if anyone can suggest what I'm missing here I'd be much obliged!

As to the Common Updater, I didn't install that, but will do so now. Just to note: there seems to be a disparity of versions of this between the UK and USA Epson sites. UK site has "Mac OS X Common Updater  {v.5.0:} 28-Dec-2010, 35.0MBs", while USA site has "Common Updater v7.0 posted on 05/13/10 13.6MB"
I'll install the UK one for now, but I don't expect it to fix my immediate problem

Any further suggestions welcome

Thanks again

Jim
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Jim-St on October 04, 2011, 08:20:30 am
Just to update a couple of points:

1. I've looked in the Devices menu in ColorSync, as Wayne suggests, and there are just 2 printers listed - the 3800 and a Canon I use for non-photo printing. So I'm not sure there's much cruft to clean out here (?)

2. In the System Prefs> Print&Scan > Options & Supplies > Driver tab  there's a drop down called "Print Using:" If I select "Select Printer Software..." I get a long list of (I think) all the drivers on the system. If I put "3800" in the Filter box, I get the list below (see screenshot)

I'm not sure how much if any of this is new in Lion, but (i) there's no explicitly identified CUPS driver there, and (ii) there are 2 options for my printer, "Epson SPro 3800" and "Epson SPro 3800C"

If anyone can make any sense of this, I'm all ears!

Jim
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: francois on October 04, 2011, 09:21:35 am
Just to update a couple of points:

1. I've looked in the Devices menu in ColorSync, as Wayne suggests, and there are just 2 printers listed - the 3800 and a Canon I use for non-photo printing. So I'm not sure there's much cruft to clean out here (?)

2. In the System Prefs> Print&Scan > Options & Supplies > Driver tab  there's a drop down called "Print Using:" If I select "Select Printer Software..." I get a long list of (I think) all the drivers on the system. If I put "3800" in the Filter box, I get the list below (see screenshot)

I'm not sure how much if any of this is new in Lion, but (i) there's no explicitly identified CUPS driver there, and (ii) there are 2 options for my printer, "Epson SPro 3800" and "Epson SPro 3800C"

If anyone can make any sense of this, I'm all ears!

Jim

Jim,
I don't know if this will help you:
• CUPS = Gutenprint (a bit simplified…)
• On my Macs (10.7.1, Epson 3800 version 8.64), EPSON SPro 3800 is selected but I never had to choose that.  When I installed Mac OS X 10.7.1 on a freshly formatted drive, I just installed the Epson drivers and went to System Preferences > Print & Scan and pressed the + button.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Jim-St on October 04, 2011, 12:39:57 pm
Thanks Francois - I too installed the Epson drivers just after installing Lion, but didn't do it on a newly-formatted drive (just ran Disk Utility from backup drive to Verify my Mac HD, and from the Mac HD to repair permissions, before and after the Lion installation and again after Epson installation).

I thought that might be enough, because I'd searched around a bit - here and in Google - for issues with 3800 and Lion, and found none.

So I took the plunge, and everything else is OK except I can't access the Color or Color Settings stuff in the driver. I've tried a couple of A4 colour prints, and quality seems fine. No way I can use the AdvB&W stuff though, or print without re-setting paper type in the driver, as that just sticks with last used until manually reset...

I've also lost a set of paper presets that used to show up in the driver's Presets menu under Snow Leopard. I guess I'm going to have to do a complete unistall/reinstall of all the Epson stuff and hope that fixes this. Just hoping someone can advise on best way to do this

Jim

 
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: digitaldog on October 04, 2011, 01:49:38 pm
No way I can use the AdvB&W stuff though, or print without re-setting paper type in the driver, as that just sticks with last used until manually reset...

Which is why I think something is hosed on your end. Might need to reset the print system (In Printers and Fax, Control Click to call up menu), reinstall drivers.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Jim-St on October 04, 2011, 02:34:19 pm
Might need to reset the print system (In Printers and Fax, Control Click to call up menu), reinstall drivers.

Thanks Andrew, that's what I was waiting to hear. Wayne describes a more elaborate routine for uninstall/reinstall in his blog piece. Are you saying all I need do is reset and then click the "+" in the Prefs pane to reinstall? Seems to me a deeper clean-out might be needed  :-\

Jim
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: digitaldog on October 04, 2011, 02:36:06 pm
Thanks Andrew, that's what I was waiting to hear. Wayne describes a more elaborate routine for uninstall/reinstall in his blog piece. Are you saying all I need do is reset and then click the "+" in the Prefs pane to reinstall? Seems to me a deeper clean-out might be needed  :-

I’d try that first before doing the full Epson printer enema process.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Jim-St on October 04, 2011, 03:35:39 pm
Well, tried that one...

Reset printers in System Prefs, ran DU to repair permissions, restarted machine and reinstalled the Epson in the Pref pane.

Went into LR, to Print module, and clicked LR's Print Settings button on a pic with an LR preset selected in the Presets panel. Driver comes up showing that all my existing paper presets have gone, leaving only what's shown in the screenshot. But lo and behold, Color and Color Settings are back! Didn't last though. Second time I went into driver's Print Settings menu, they're greyed out again :'(

Tried repeating whole process a couple more times, but never got them back agin

So I think I've still got something interfering with the driver's Print Settings menu, and I guess I'll need the  deep clean-out and fresh reinstall

Any advice on how best to do this (since I didn't get far with Wayne's method - see my "Reply 11" post above, can't get the "Uninstall" option in the Epson driver installer)?

Maybe I can short-circuit that in some way???

Any suggestions welcome

Jim

Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Schewe on October 04, 2011, 03:50:22 pm

So I think I've still got something interfering with the driver's Print Settings menu, and I guess I'll need the  deep clean-out and fresh reinstall

Again did you download and install the Epson Common Updater v7 AFTER you installed the most recent 3800 driver?
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Farmer on October 04, 2011, 04:50:51 pm
A few things that might help here, guys:

1. Common Updater is of no use with driver 8.64 or higher.  It was designed to download and update to the latest version for previous series drivers for OS X, but it is no longer applicable since the release of drivers to support Lion.  For consumer printers, a new app called Download Navigator will be installed with Epson drivers that does much the same thing (but direct from Epson, not via Apple).  For the large format / pro printers, this isn't available and updates are via the various Epson websites.  You can run Common Updater, but it won't do anything.

2. The control over the driver is as designed - Adobe is using the feature both under OS X and Windows to set the driver correctly based on your choice of whether the app is colour managing or whether the printer is doing it.  Under OS X, though, it's quite forceful and you actually get the alternatives greyed out.  Windows just sets it but doesn't lock the user out from changing it.

If you want access to the colour settings, you need to choose to let the printer manage colour in the app - if you want a colour managed workflow controlled by the app (recommended) then you shouldn't be changing the colour controls in the driver.  If you need to make a profile, you should use the Adobe Color Print Utility.

Perhaps Eric or someone similar will pop by to clarify further, but that's my understanding of it all.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Schewe on October 04, 2011, 05:17:36 pm
1. Common Updater is of no use with driver 8.64 or higher.  It was designed to download and update to the latest version for previous series drivers for OS X, but it is no longer applicable since the release of drivers to support Lion.

But the OP is trying to print using a 3800, not  3880 and as far as I can tell, the most recent driver for the 3800 is version 6.11 which WILL need to have the Common Updater v7.0 installed AFTER the 6.11 driver is installed, which should be done after wiping all the CUPS stuff out of the printers...

If/when Epson releases a new Lion (10.7) drivers, this may change. But as far as I can tell the current 6.11 plus the Common Updater should work in Lion.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Farmer on October 04, 2011, 05:30:16 pm
There's some confusion which we probably need the OP to clarify.  8.64 for the 3800 (not 3880) is available (check the UK or Australian sites - it's just not up on the US site), and at least one person on this thread has it installed and it's likely in my mind that the OP does, too, given the behaviour of the driver.

It's not that the driver isn't working so far as I can tell, it's that it's following the new paradigm of interactivity between the app and the driver and setting itself based on the settings in the application.

If the OP is still running 6.11 then the Common Updater can be run, of course.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: greyscale on October 04, 2011, 05:40:28 pm
Jeff,
 according to the Epson d/l page, the common updater is not required for this driver.

John
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Schewe on October 04, 2011, 05:52:55 pm
according to the Epson d/l page, the common updater is not required for this driver.

Which driver? 6.11 or 8.64? Common Updater v7 is needed for 6.11 and not for 8.64. So the main question is what driver version is the OP using? This can be discovered by going to System Prefs, Print & Fax, click on the printer in question and Open Print Queue then in the next dialog, click on Printer Setup. This will show the exact version of the driver.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Jim-St on October 04, 2011, 06:24:04 pm
Hi all-

The driver I've installed and am trying to get working is v8.64, the one available from Epson UK. As I said previously (Reply 11 above), the UK site also has "Mac OS X Common Updater  {v.5.0:} 28-Dec-2010, 35.0MBs", while USA site has "Common Updater v7.0 posted on 05/13/10 13.6MB"

I downloaded and installed the UK version, as the posting date was later, and I'm not sure a US and UK version numbers necessarily follow the same sequence

Hope this clarifies, and thanks for all your interest

Jim
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Jim-St on October 04, 2011, 06:41:18 pm

2. The control over the driver is as designed - Adobe is using the feature both under OS X and Windows to set the driver correctly based on your choice of whether the app is colour managing or whether the printer is doing it.  Under OS X, though, it's quite forceful and you actually get the alternatives greyed out.  Windows just sets it but doesn't lock the user out from changing it.

If you want access to the colour settings, you need to choose to let the printer manage colour in the app - if you want a colour managed workflow controlled by the app (recommended) then you shouldn't be changing the colour controls in the driver.  If you need to make a profile, you should use the Adobe Color Print Utility.

Perhaps Eric or someone similar will pop by to clarify further, but that's my understanding of it all.

This is new to me, and I'm not sure I understand all the implications for print workflow. I always use app managed colour for printing, but Farmer is right: if I set Profile to Managed by Printer in LR's Print Job tab, then I do get options for "Color" and "Color Settings" in the driver. And that mirrors back to LR's left panel Print Settings (which seems a bit counter-intuitive, as I usually work left>right in LR), where again, their absence or presence is conditional on how colour management is set in the Print Job tab!

So if Farmer is right, then my driver is working as intended (?)

And if so, yes, I can only hope Eric, or Jeff,can provide some fresh guidance on colour-managed print workflow in this brave new world!

Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: digitaldog on October 04, 2011, 06:58:17 pm
Some software products are using a private (undocumented) SPI called kPMApplicationColorMatching which you see in Photoshop and Lightroom. When you set Application Manages Color, the area of the driver that controls Colorsync will alter the radio buttons such they are grayed out.

This has been a behavior for awhile. I don’t have Lion running (nor intent to for awhile), I doubt the grayed out behavior the OP shows in the original post is based on this SPI nor is it normal or expected. The ColorSync radio buttons, yes. 

I don’t have a clue about Windows...
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Farmer on October 04, 2011, 10:43:07 pm
Andrew - from my discussions with Dave P. (and if there's any error here, it's mine and not his!) is that this is working as intended.  The buttons greyed out in the screenshot supplied by the OP relate to settings that should not be changed when using application colour management, and so Apple locks (greys) them out.

Windows respects the request for settings from the app, but it does not lock out changes in the way that OS X does.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Wayne Fox on October 04, 2011, 11:09:46 pm
So if Farmer is right, then my driver is working as intended (?)

Yes, he is right as I mentioned in an earlier post ...  the driver is working as intended.  sorry but you've been trying to fix something that isn't broken ... a change that doesn't seem to be documented but is logical.

  Were those boxes enabled, there would be nothing you would want to choose from them if letting PS or LR manage the color, so the new driver and Lion are communicating well enough to know that and it disables them. In previous versions they were selectable, but you would never select them.

 If you choose printer manages color, they will become available because there are settings there applicable to telling the printer what to do when it is managing color.

NOTHING new here it doesn't change the workflow at all, it just disables options that aren't applicable anyway which makes the interface more logical.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: greyscale on October 04, 2011, 11:13:55 pm
Jeff,
you of course are correct the OP is using a 3800.
My mistake, having my own problems with the Lion driver on a 3880.
Sorry,
John
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Photo Op on October 04, 2011, 11:56:56 pm
OK, let's look at it from this perspective. The OP IS using a 3800, but with a driver he downloaded from Epson EUROPE that is v8.64 dated 8/2011. Some of us are replying referring to the 3880 with a driver from Epson USA that is v8.64. So we are seeing the same options. SOME others are referring to the 3800 Epson USA driver which HAS NOT been updated to the (Lion) v8.64, and that's the confusion. My contention is that the v8.64 driver (3800 from Epson EUROPE AND 3880 from Epson USA) are working similarly AND CORRECTLY under LION (and probably SL) by having options greyed out when choosing LR or PS manages color in the print selection section.

And so my hope and contention IS that with the "new" v8.64 drivers, Epson FINALLY has adopted Apples "new" (Snow Leopard and Lion) APIs for printing with Colorsync that NO LONGER results in double profiling and the dreaded DARK PRINT problems!
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Jim-St on October 05, 2011, 09:23:09 am
Wow!

So it's meant to be like this! I woke this morning thinking I'd move to my backup drive which still has Snow Leopard, and leave Lion til these issues are sorted out. But if it meant to be like that!!

Hmm... not sure how to proceed now. This driver is different in a number of ways and my workflow will have to change to reflect these differences...

Examples:

1. There's no Standard setting in the Presets menu - just Default and Last Used. I'll assume Default is the new Standard

2. I've spent the morning reconstructing my User Templates panel, the contents of which were completely hosed. In the course of doing that, the following has become apparent...

3. It's not just the "Color" and "Color Settings" menus that are greyed/locked out. Under "Print Settings" in the driver, only the 3 Photo papers (Lustre, Gloss and Semigloss) and 2 of the Matte papers (Archival & Enhanced) are available. All other paper types (inc all the Fine Art ones) are greyed out. Since Epson provides ICC profiles for some at least of these, I'm not sure how to proceed here. Should I need to use e.g. Velvet Fine Art, I can't see any way of selecting it the Media Type menu.


The last is the biggest residual issue here, I think. If my User Templates get hosed again the next 24 hours then it's back to Snow Leopard. Otherwise I expect I'll get on ok with Lion, if I can find a way of accessing the full range of paper types...

That's where I'm up to for now - thanks for all your help guys, I expect I'll have more to post yet before I get this thing settled!


Jim
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Photo Op on October 05, 2011, 10:03:56 am
I always use app managed colour for printing


Here's a guess so take it for what it's worth. I've understood that by having LR manage color and by selecting an Epson icc profile in LR for a specific paper, then the driver (especially now with v8.64) should give you the proper paper options in the settings whether Glossy, Matte or "other". If you use the proper icc profile for the paper your using then the options should be available to you in the driver called from LR. If I'm wrong in my understanding, then maybe Jeff, Andrew or Wayne may wish to comment.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: digitaldog on October 05, 2011, 10:11:24 am
Andrew - from my discussions with Dave P. (and if there's any error here, it's mine and not his!) is that this is working as intended.  The buttons greyed out in the screenshot supplied by the OP relate to settings that should not be changed when using application colour management, and so Apple locks (greys) them out.

In ColorSync (Color Matching) yes, but for the popup for Color, ABW? That doesn’t sound kosher. But not being on Lion, I’m not sure. It seems strange.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Jim-St on October 05, 2011, 10:41:02 am
Here's a guess so take it for what it's worth. I've understood that by having LR manage color and by selecting an Epson icc profile in LR for a specific paper, then the driver (especially now with v8.64) should give you the proper paper options in the settings whether Glossy, Matte or "other". If you use the proper icc profile for the paper your using then the options should be available to you in the driver called from LR. If I'm wrong in my understanding, then maybe Jeff, Andrew or Wayne may wish to comment.

I can see the logic of hat you're saying, Dave, but it just doesn't seem  to work like that. I just tried going into Print module, selecting the Pr038 VFAP profile (an Epson profile, IIRC), then going into LR's Print Settings (i.e. the driver). Again, I just got the 3 Photo papers and 2 Matte ones available.

Under Color Matching, however, I did find this (see screenshot): new to me, but I'm not sure if this stuff was there in earlier versions of the driver

Tried selecting the Pro38 VFAP profile, but again it didn't make the Velvet Fine Art paper available. So I'm stumped on how to access a whole range of papers (though I'm ok to use my normal Epson Trad Photo and Ilford GFS, so it's liveable with short term)



Jim
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Wayne Fox on October 05, 2011, 05:26:13 pm
In ColorSync (Color Matching) yes, but for the popup for Color, ABW? That doesn’t sound kosher. But not being on Lion, I’m not sure. It seems strange.
ABW mode with the new driver is only available when you let the printer manage color, but the menu is greyed out when the application is managing color.  I don't use ABW but it seems logical to me ... isn't ABW a printer driver managed setting?  I'm curious if this is a "lion" thing ... it very may work the same way with Snow Leopard since this is an Epson driver change.  I don't think Apple changed much in the printer pipeline from SL to Lion.


I can see the logic of hat you're saying, Dave, but it just doesn't seem  to work like that. I just tried going into Print module, selecting the Pr038 VFAP profile (an Epson profile, IIRC), then going into LR's Print Settings (i.e. the driver). Again, I just got the 3 Photo papers and 2 Matte ones available.

Under Color Matching, however, I did find this (see screenshot): new to me, but I'm not sure if this stuff was there in earlier versions of the driver

Tried selecting the Pro38 VFAP profile, but again it didn't make the Velvet Fine Art paper available. So I'm stumped on how to access a whole range of papers (though I'm ok to use my normal Epson Trad Photo and Ilford GFS, so it's liveable with short term)

Jim

I"m not near my 4900, but the pop  you mention is when you let the "printer" manage color, and then in the printer dialog you then allow colorsync to manage color.  The OS can manage the color and beginning with Snow Leopard does allow you to select a profile (meaning you can use profiles in programs like iPhoto, something which was very challenging to do before).

As far as your other problems, normally when a paper is unavailable it is because you have chosen a paper path which isn't compatible with the paper type, perhaps the new driver is trying to enforce that more aggressively?  Many fine art papers are not supposed to be fed through the normal top slot, but require the rear manual feed or the front manual feed slot.  Any chance that's your problem?

As far as workflow, I believe "default" is the same as standard, and yes it's unfortunate that the new drivers will probably wipe out LR presets since those profiles are deleted and replaced with new profiles and the LR presets also remember which printer preset you use which are also lost. I've had the same issue.  After I correct the problem when using a preset I can right click on it and update it to current settings, so I haven't had to make them all from scratch.  Many of the preset settings are still valid.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: digitaldog on October 05, 2011, 05:27:54 pm
I'm curious if this is a "lion" thing ... it very may work the same way with Snow Leopard since this is an Epson driver change.

Its not how any of my Epson printers behave in Snow Leopard so I just don’t know.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Farmer on October 05, 2011, 05:35:30 pm
I agree with what Wayne has said (I was about to say basically the same thing but got the "two more replies have been made" warning :-) ).

The other thing for the OP to check is which black ink is selected - PK or MK?  That will restrict the choice of media available as well under OS X.

Andrew - There are changes in the OS, the driver and the apps.  Again, this also happens under Windows, but it just doesn't lock you out.  I don't have a machine to check, but under SL it should be making the appropriate driver settings but perhaps is not locking them out?  ABW is designed as a "printer manages" workflow so that makes sense.  If you're using an application managed colour workflow with ICC profiles then there shouldn't be a problem with the items that are greyed out as there should be no need to change them.
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Schewe on October 05, 2011, 06:05:12 pm
Andrew - There are changes in the OS, the driver and the apps.

Correct...with the 8.xx series drivers for Mac, if an application is set to handle color management, the driver locks out any color settings. This is the new Apple Colorsync compatible Mac driver standard. And yes, if you set LR to handle color management you can't select ABW in the driver. You must set LR to Printer Manages Color in order to use ABW...
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: Jim-St on October 05, 2011, 07:21:10 pm

... isn't ABW a printer driver managed setting?

You're right of course - I had actually reached that conclusion myself, though I've not seen it stated anywhere


As far as your other problems, normally when a paper is unavailable it is because you have chosen a paper path which isn't compatible with the paper type, perhaps the new driver is trying to enforce that more aggressively?  Many fine art papers are not supposed to be fed through the normal top slot, but require the rear manual feed or the front manual feed slot.  Any chance that's your problem?

Again you're quite right here, Wayne - I just tried out your suggestion and got all the paper types available using the rear paper feed in page Setup. So yes, we're looking at an increased enforcement in the driver, which can only be good - though documented somewhere would be even better!


As far as workflow, I believe "default" is the same as standard, and yes it's unfortunate that the new drivers will probably wipe out LR presets since those profiles are deleted and replaced with new profiles and the LR presets also remember which printer preset you use which are also lost. I've had the same issue.  After I correct the problem when using a preset I can right click on it and update it to current settings, so I haven't had to make them all from scratch.  Many of the preset settings are still valid.

I know about the right click to update settings - one of the most useful - if also one of the most slippery - aspects of the LR print module. I think the reason I needed to rebuild all my templates may be to do with some of the (with hindsight unnecessary)  driver deletions etc I went through earlier in the process.

I think I'm there now, with help from all who've fed me ideas and suggestions in this thread. I'm not by natural inclination an early adopter, and this time bitten will be the more shy when 10.8 comes along!!

So once again

Thanks to you all - what a great forum this is, in times of need or confusion. Lightroom can be a solitary workspace at times, and that way leads to despair and madness without the help of those who are willing to share their knowledge and expertise from afar!!!


Jim
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: gizmette on October 12, 2011, 08:08:37 pm
hmmm, I've installed Lion a few months ago (and I'm wearing the collateral expenses like a hairshirt), and I've installed the new 3800 driver, which is new as of 10.11 (or so). Of course, now my printing via Photoshop has gone to the dogs.  I'm printing saturated montages that I would normally just use the printer's default setting (I know, I know, but ICC profiles burned through a lot of paper before I gave up on them).  My paper is Hahnemuehle Bright White Photo Rag.  Their ICC profile, the Pro38 VFAP, has never worked under any OS, but since I'm having to manually feed the paper, this is what it's wanting to default to.  Ive managed to find other means to work around this, but they're getting muddier and uglier.
So, unless someone has a great solution for me, is there any chance I can delete the driver and go back to a previous version, the one that worked for me? 
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: robgo2 on December 16, 2011, 03:42:05 pm
I was having the same problem after installing the newest driver for the 3880, although I am still on OS 10.6.8.  This mattered to me, because I use custom ABW profiles from Eric Chan that require "Photoshop manages color." Epson's technical support could not provide me with the old driver.  Fortunately, someone on Dpreview suggested that I look for the .dmg for the driver on my computer.  I found it in my Downloads folder and installed it.  Now, my printer driver is back to where it was.

Assuming that the driver for OS 10.6 is compatible with Lion, you may be able to do the same.  Good luck.

Here is a thread on the subject that I started.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=60332.0

Rob
Title: Re: Problems with "Print Settings" under Lion
Post by: GeoEng51 on December 17, 2011, 12:54:16 pm
I hadn't used my Epson 3880 for a while; fired it up yesterday to print off some photos for Christmas, and got an unexplained error.  It finally dawned on me that I hadn't used the printer since I upgraded to Lion in the fall.  I should have remembered, as I had a similar problem with a previous Epson printer when upgrading to Leopard.  After trying to reinstall the print driver, with no successful outcome, I found this discussion, and in particular Wayne Fox's advice on doing a complete clean out of the printer system:

http://www.cwaynefox.com/myBlog/Printing/Entries/2009/12/8_TROUBLESHOOTING_EPSON_PRINTERS_AND_SNOW_LEOPARD.html

to be just what I needed.  Followed his advice to the tee, and everything is now working properly.  Thanks Wayne!!

(Chrismas) Cheers.....John   :)