Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: pipzz on September 20, 2011, 07:20:04 am
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Thinking to jump in MFD world sometime in the future (not planning to use tech cameras)
Any recommendation or hands-on experience regarding IQ, handling, tethering? Thanks.
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With the H2 you won't be able to use the 28mm and 35-90mm lenses, you won't have True Focus nor the magnified viewfinder. You will still be able to shoot film though and the P45+ is supposedly the best back for long exposures. The ISO performance of the H4D-40 on the other hand should be significantly better though. Is there any particular reason like long exposures why you are targeting the P45+ and not the P40+. The latter would give you access to the Sensor+ technology.
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> Is there any particular reason like long exposures why you are targeting the P45+ and not the P40+.
P45+ just have bigger sensor over P40+. (P45+ Image quality should be better?)
Phase has solid tethering, but P45+ is about 6 year old. Compare to new H4D-40. I like Hassy colors over PhaseOne. P45+ has very natural color, but Hassy delivers painting like colors which I like. At least what I saw online.
But P45+ gives cleaner low ligh shots over H4D-40 or not?
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No, the contrary, the H4D-40 should be significantly better in low light situations.
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Thinking to jump in MFD world sometime in the future (not planning to use tech cameras)
Any recommendation or hands-on experience regarding IQ, handling, tethering? Thanks.
Jump in into P1 system :-)
No connection problems, no problems with the software. Think only on whether H2 is a good way. Perfect lenses appear to P1 ;D
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Jump in into P1 system :-)
No connection problems, no problems with the software. Think only on whether H2 is a good way. Perfect lenses appear to P1 ;D
Ones I'll see 28mm LS from Schneider and P1 colors like Hassy (IQ180 is already close to that), I'll be in.
Indeed I like 1/1600 full sync and Scnheider lenses.
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Thinking to jump in MFD world sometime in the future (not planning to use tech cameras)
Any recommendation or hands-on experience regarding IQ, handling, tethering? Thanks.
All the above opinions/quotes have their point and are right in their POV, I only want to add that in my opinion the OP should have been between the H2/P40+ or the H4D40, In photography you can't compare backs/cameras that have been designed to perform different tasks because then everybody advising you will be doing so according to his needs. If you compare a nearly FF sensor with a 1.3X crop sensor your lenses, perspective and general approach to photography have completely different needs! My advise to you would be not to go for a "closed" system, (I mean "cost-wise") because then, there will be sometime where you will want to add or upgrade to that system and then you'll find yourself trapped to what maybe very expensive solutions! If I was you I would do what I did 5 years ago adapted for today. First I would choose a camera system that has many choices of backs and lenses while at the same time would have superb dedicated lenses, to my view this would leave no other choice than the HassV, or Contax645, or Mamiya645 path, mind you that if my choice was for the first, I could always go for a body of the others and use my Hass V lenses on both via an inexpensive adapter! Alternatively I could choose any of the 645s and use (carefully selected) CZJ lenses, or HassV lenses or the dedicated ones. On all the above choices, the alternative use of film wouldn't be a problem at all.
For digital back I would first decide the use of it, if the use would be for all aspects of photography, I would probably go for the P40+, if however I would have low light photography covered with a DSLR like the D700 (which I have, with faster lenses too...), then the advantages I would look for my MF back would be only for low ISO, superb resolution and DR, this would lead me to choose between the P45+, Aptus75/7, CF39/39MS, Sinar75 and maybe include the "lower resolution FF 22mpx" versions of them in my choices that perhaps don't lack anything else than resolution from their bigger brothers. Between those backs the Sinars and CFs have the added advantage of interchangeable fits for many different cameras, the Aptus has the best screen and the P1s are great for reeeeaaly long exposures, the CF/Imacons have alternative MS versions without sacrificing mobility, which to some (like me since that's what I use on my C645) can be irreplaceable! I guess thats all, needs gives the solution! Cheers Theodoros, www.fotometria.gr
P.S. Some people think that they should avoid 22mpx MF, because they feel its now comparable with FF DSLRs, .......they are under the influence of wrong impressions. There is just NO IQ COMPARISON whatsoever!
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i don't know anything about phocus, but all the assistants i talk to that get to use both systems regularly (in NZ i guess theres about 50% phase/hassy) say capture one is quite a bit better than phocus. Phocus is getting better, but still buggy.
I use capture one and its very good. You can scroll and tag images fast, make quick proof jpegs in a second (very useful feature), web galleries, and processes very well. it does take a bit to learn though.
as for backs- the p45+ has very nice files and the frame is almost full (so wide lenses are wider), but it is slow to shoot with, and the iso is very low- 100 max for most things. But being the earlier kodak chip based backs, tethering is very stable- better than the newer dalsa p40+ and p65+- you can literally pull the cable, put it back in and it just keeps going (well it did in earlier versions of C1, I'm sure it still does). both my p40+ and P65+ are a bit more temperamental not to hang the software if you try this with it.
I have heard the hassy backs are a bit touchy to connect as well.
paul
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I like Hassy colors over PhaseOne. P45+ has very natural color, but Hassy delivers painting like colors which I like. At least what I saw online.
Since both PhaseOne and Hasselblad use the same Kodak family of sensors, with the same Bayer CFA colour dyes, and presumably very similar fixed IR-blocking filters, I expect that any such distinct colour differences you see are mainly due to the post-processing software, not the backs themselves. Since we can tweak colours to our heart's content with just about any software package, then given the same raw materials (photons captured by the same detection bandpasses), we should therefore be able to make a PhaseOne and a Hasselblad image match each other in colour rendering. So I personally would not let impressive colour examples be a major factor in a decision like this. But this would not be the case when comparing images from sensors with distinctly different CFAs, like Dalsa vs. Kodak. And the shapes of the transmission bandpass of the lenses could also play a role, to some extent.
Ray
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Since both PhaseOne and Hasselblad use the same Kodak family of sensors, with the same Bayer CFA colour dyes, and presumably very similar fixed IR-blocking filters, I expect that any such distinct colour differences you see are mainly due to the post-processing software, not the backs themselves. Since we can tweak colours to our heart's content with just about any software package, then given the same raw materials (photons captured by the same detection bandpasses), we should therefore be able to make a PhaseOne and a Hasselblad image match each other in colour rendering. So I personally would not let impressive colour examples be a major factor in a decision like this. But this would not be the case when comparing images from sensors with distinctly different CFAs, like Dalsa vs. Kodak. And the shapes of the transmission bandpass of the lenses could also play a role, to some extent.
Ray
+1. Color differences are mainly due to glass, my 528C has better color on my contax than on an H1/2 (I have both adapters). The Dalsa 22mpx I used to have on my Sinarback was more neutral than the Kodak 22mpx on my 528c, the later is slightly over saturated, the same was with a P25+ which I've tried on my Contax, this may be an advantage or not depending on taste. P45+ has the same color as P25+, there is a chance that someone will try a Dalsa sensor on one system and a Kodak on the other and conclude that the color difference is due to the different system, while its because of the different sensor. Color differences due to lenses can be noticeable between H and V systems as well (although Hass has tried hard to keep the traditional "Zeiss feel" on H), with the V being closest to the Contax! The Sekors have a different behaviour that reminds me of the Angenioux 35mm I used to own! Regards Theodoros www.fotometria.gr
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I only want to add that in my opinion the OP should have been between the H2/P40+ or the H4D40,
Just FYI The P40+ and H4d40 are not really comparable, both use very different chips (the H4D40 is a microlensed kodak).
Nick-T
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Just FYI The P40+ and H4d40 are not really comparable, both use very different chips (the H4D40 is a microlensed kodak).
Nick-T
nick, so the h4d is pretty much the same as a p30+ but with more megapixels? This would make it a very good chip, as the p30+(and non plus) is pretty much the only phase back to do anywhere near 400iso (if you don't count sensor plus mode).
Ive used the p30+ quite a bit, and the p40+ was my last back, the files are a lot different. the p30 is a little softer, and has the extra stop or more iso. the p40+ has a very detailed file, but really can only be used at 100iso or under. even 200 on the p40+ is quite "ungradable". Blacks blot quick, and has to delt with aggressive anti noise treating in capture 1.
paul
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Hi Paul!
I have an H3D31 9same chip as p30+) and like it a lot. i had an H4D40 here for a while and it is a much nicer chip, better colours (new dyes) and probably 2 stops faster than my 31 (ISO wise). Compared the the P40+ (Dalsa chip) there is no contest at high ISO.
here's a (biased) post on the subject:
http://www.nick-t.com/blog/2011/03/h4d40-vs-p40/
Cheers Nick-T
P.S can I borrow your new laptop :)
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To address the question of the thread (which so quickly seems to be a way to air out dissatisfaction from a few) the two systems produce extremely crisp imagery, I think it is important to recognize that the integration advances present in the H4D may be the most apparent technological difference.
Specifically the ability to lock the focal plane and recompose, then real-time compensation for the new composition to retain the original key focus.
As mentioned, the HCD 28mm and HCD 35-90 Zoom (very useful lens, btw) are designed for the H3D and H4D systems, with the remaining lenses (35mm, 50mm, 80mm, 100mm, 120macro, 150mm, 210mm, 300mm, 50-110 Zoom, 1.7 teleconverter, 13-26-52mm extension tubes, CF-lens adaptor and Tilt-shift HTS lens adaptor) for the entire H-series, including the H2/P45+ configuration.
Photo assistants in the major markets that I have shown Phocus (and subsequently shot with) they are very comfortable within minutes - yes, it is used regularly; the user interface is very familiar to anyone who has experience shooting with C1 with the tools on the other side from each other.
In some cases it it faster for certain tasks, but let's not split hairs - they are both recommended, used, and deployed by experienced shooters. Some of the grumbling I have seen is from those who have never used it; not exactly a great source to base a decision...
Why guess about it? Download Phocus and check it out yourself (http://www.hasselbladusa.com/downloads.aspx) - there are minimum hardware requirements, but who would install on a under-powered computer?
Video Time! (http://www.youtube.com/user/HotwireDigital?feature=mhee#p/a/f/0/_1oXq8v-IUo)
John
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Ones I'll see 28mm LS from Schneider and P1 colors like Hassy (IQ180 is already close to that), I'll be in.
Indeed I like 1/1600 full sync and Scnheider lenses.
So I welcome you in our family right now ;D
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Hi Paul!
I have an H3D31 9same chip as p30+) and like it a lot. i had an H4D40 here for a while and it is a much nicer chip, better colours (new dyes) and probably 2 stops faster than my 31 (ISO wise). Compared the the P40+ (Dalsa chip) there is no contest at high ISO.
here's a (biased) post on the subject:
http://www.nick-t.com/blog/2011/03/h4d40-vs-p40/
Cheers Nick-T
P.S can I borrow your new laptop :)
Nick,
how should I interpret these 2 stops? Does it mean that up till 1600 ISO is usable on the H4D-40 compared to 400 ISO for the P30+/H3D-31?
Thanks, Joris.
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Photo assistants in the major markets that I have shown Phocus (and subsequently shot with) they are very comfortable within minutes - yes, it is used regularly; the user interface is very familiar to anyone who has experience shooting with C1 with the tools on the other side from each other.
In some cases it it faster for certain tasks, but let's not split hairs - they are both recommended, used, and deployed by experienced shooters. Some of the grumbling I have seen is from those who have never used it; not exactly a great source to base a decision...
Why guess about it? Download Phocus and check it out yourself (http://www.hasselbladusa.com/downloads.aspx) - there are minimum hardware requirements, but who would install on a under-powered computer?
Video Time! (http://www.youtube.com/user/HotwireDigital?feature=mhee#p/a/f/0/_1oXq8v-IUo)
John
At the same ones who have to use Phocus, are more stressed. Instead of focusing on taking pictures, they are praying that nothing had crashed. Overtake the answer, I use both systems, I know very well Phocus and C1.Let's face it, C1 is more polished, more stable. I am not attacking at all Phocus, because it is a very simple program that I like. But I think that missing a few tools, it is not stable ... Of course, "C1" is not perfect. But much more you can rely on this program. You work without stress.
It is proposed to play a program when it is connected to the camera. That's when problems arise. Phocus as a viewer / developer is perfect tool.
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At the same ones who have to use Phocus, are more stressed. Instead of focusing on taking pictures, they are praying that nothing had crashed. Overtake the answer, I use both systems, I know very well Phocus and C1.Let's face it, C1 is more polished, more stable. I am not attacking at all Phocus, because it is a very simple program that I like. But I think that missing a few tools, it is not stable ... Of course, "C1" is not perfect. But much more you can rely on this program. You work without stress.
It is proposed to play a program when it is connected to the camera. That's when problems arise. Phocus as a viewer / developer is perfect tool.
I use Phocus as well. I never had it crash on me. On the contrary C1 frequently crashes on me...
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Just FYI The P40+ and H4d40 are not really comparable, both use very different chips (the H4D40 is a microlensed kodak).
Nick-T
I never said its the same sensor, its both 44x33 and the same res isn't it? That makes them comparable than the P45+ which is larger and obviously non-comparable. I explain that in my quote. Cheers Theodoros www.fotometria.gr
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I use Phocus as well. I never had it crash on me. On the contrary C1 frequently crashes on me...
I'm sorry but I do not believe in such fairy tales. Each program crashes, sooner or later. The question of how often it does.
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We have a feature story where the entire shoot was in studio tethered using Phocus; see the front page for details.
It is significantly misleading to broad swipe the capture application from an opinion of personal viewpoint, so it is good to get information from a portfolio of experience on the board.
I have experienced Phocus crashes with under-powered laptops using video cards that cannot process the graphics processing, loose FireWire cables that cause data stream interruption, and the occasional who-knows-what-just-happened. Like design freak, all code will give fits at some point.
Most of my experience with Phocus is trouble-free. How?
Implement best practices, use a good computer, use a good FireWire cable that is secured from movement especially at the computer FireWire interface, and when a reboot is necessary, confirm the camera reboots as well by removing the cable and power cycle.
Then shoot!
You can see the Phocus application in several videos, like the Ferrari shoot in Victor magazine, and our live-video demonstration by AKEL Studios as a reference.
John
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I'm sorry but I do not believe in such fairy tales. Each program crashes, sooner or later. The question of how often it does.
+1 From experience I can say that "Sinar Captureshop" is the most unstable, otherwise Sinar has the best backs around (best construction, cooling, interchangeability etc.)... a pitty. If they will resolve the problem I will be their most dedicated customer.... Com'n you guys in Sinar. Cheers Theodoros, www.fotometria.gr
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Nick,
how should I interpret these 2 stops? Does it mean that up till 1600 ISO is usable on the H4D-40 compared to 400 ISO for the P30+/H3D-31?
Thanks, Joris.
Yes that was pretty much my take, the H4D40 has a 2 stop advantage (Maybe 1.5 if being cautious) over the 31 products (H3d31/P30+).
Nick-T
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Yes that was pretty much my take, the H4D40 has a 2 stop advantage (Maybe 1.5 if being cautious) over the 31 products (H3d31/P30+).
Nick-T
Those iso results are extremely impressive! Do the larger backs in the hassy line have the same specs?
It's a pity you are stuck with a hassy system with this back- I don't like the lenses, and you have to use theirs.
Paul
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Yes that was pretty much my take, the H4D40 has a 2 stop advantage (Maybe 1.5 if being cautious) over the 31 products (H3d31/P30+).
Nick-T
OTH I feel that MF Iso advantage has never been an attraction for MF users (traditionally), personally I never liked the P31+ because its base Iso is starting from 100, I always preferred the P25+ which other than its 50 Iso had a nearly FF sensor. IMO and traditionally, low light photography is best done with a DSLR or 35mm in the past and the same applies to action. There, the considerably faster lenses helps even more by another couple of stops and even more so because of lower size/weight. After all, the idea behind MF is its extreme IQ when it performs at its best which of course is its lowest Iso. Most of the times the cost of purchasing a MFDB that performs well at higher ISOs, is more than to purchase an equally impressive back at base iso AND a DSLR that will at higher ISOs perform much better and do even more tasks than any MFDB! Now if somebody just adds the flexibility of having two systems... QED! In my approach to photography I always bought equipment that "absolutely perform" than "absolute performance", ....but thats only me. Regards Theodoros, www.fotometria.gr
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Stay away from Hassy and P1. the H1 and H2 bodies in the used marked are getting old and will start to fail on you. I've had my H2 body sent so many time to Sweden I can't even count. It's now in repair for a new mirror motor drive. I also had a local repair store replace the shutter button with a Canon one
But... P45+ is really good and capture one is the best tool to work with, and combined with Media pro it will be better once P1 makes a better integration with these 2 programs.
The Fuji Lenses are very good, not as sharp as the new schneider lenses for P1 though!
Happy shopping
best
Bernhard Kristinn
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The service life on the H-system is around 100,000 captures; then it needs servicing. The moving parts are the mirror and the rear curtain. Rest of it is solid state electronics, so if kept with the same care as a mobile phone, will last for another round before servicing again.
The eyecup also needs the occasional replacement but that is something I consider to be within the aspect of normal wear and tear. The Hasselblad body is made from durable materials (body stainless steel, outer shells aluminum) and designed to last.
So I professionally disagree with Bernhard, who is entitled to his personal opinion from his experience, I would not "stay away from used H1 and H2", but I would recommend sending the body to a local Hasselblad service center for check-to-spec service (about $150 here in US.)
The Hasselblad H1 and H2 systems receive firmware upgrades that update with modern features to make your investment last...whether you are the first owner or a new owner of a used system.
I suggest these to be important points that should be considered along with the subjective opinions of peers, because these affect your personal budget and your personal brand when you walk into the view of your clients. The brand Hasselblad is powerful and pervasive. The equipment represents quality.
Look for yourself, this is one tough cookie:
(http://hotwire-digital.com/Get-the-Best/from-the-Experts/at-Hotwire-Digital/Hasselblad-H-system-inside-built-for-durability.png)
John
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The service life on the H-system is around 100,000 captures; then it needs servicing. The moving parts are the mirror and the rear curtain. Rest of it is solid state electronics, so if kept with the same care as a mobile phone, will last for another round before servicing again.
The eyecup also needs the occasional replacement but that is something I consider to be within the aspect of normal wear and tear. The Hasselblad body is made from durable materials (body stainless steel, outer shells aluminum) and designed to last.
So I professionally disagree with Bernhard, who is entitled to his personal opinion from his experience, I would not "stay away from used H1 and H2", but I would recommend sending the body to a local Hasselblad service center for check-to-spec service (about $150 here in US.)
The Hasselblad H1 and H2 systems receive firmware upgrades that update with modern features to make your investment last...whether you are the first owner or a new owner of a used system.
I suggest these to be important points that should be considered along with the subjective opinions of peers, because these affect your personal budget and your personal brand when you walk into the view of your clients. The brand Hasselblad is powerful and pervasive. The equipment represents quality.
Look for yourself, this is one tough cookie:
(http://hotwire-digital.com/Get-the-Best/from-the-Experts/at-Hotwire-Digital/Hasselblad-H-system-inside-built-for-durability.png)
John
The photo appears the car body. Very modern design, very robust, modern materials. If we visit a scrap yard, we realize that this element is not that we decide to give our vehicle to the scrap yard ;)
Joke
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Yes that was pretty much my take, the H4D40 has a 2 stop advantage (Maybe 1.5 if being cautious) over the 31 products (H3d31/P30+).
Nick-T
Impressive. I mostly shoot indoors but natural light. Perhaps not important for other people but for me the two additional stops would be a big thing.
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We have a feature story where the entire shoot was in studio tethered using Phocus; see the front page for details.
It is significantly misleading to broad swipe the capture application from an opinion of personal viewpoint, so it is good to get information from a portfolio of experience on the board.
I have experienced Phocus crashes with under-powered laptops using video cards that cannot process the graphics processing, loose FireWire cables that cause data stream interruption, and the occasional who-knows-what-just-happened. Like design freak, all code will give fits at some point.
Most of my experience with Phocus is trouble-free. How?
Implement best practices, use a good computer, use a good FireWire cable that is secured from movement especially at the computer FireWire interface, and when a reboot is necessary, confirm the camera reboots as well by removing the cable and power cycle.
Then shoot!
You can see the Phocus application in several videos, like the Ferrari shoot in Victor magazine, and our live-video demonstration by AKEL Studios as a reference.
John
I have a few observations:
1st If the camera was well designed (FW port is the weakest link of this design - its location, execute) the user does not have to buy additional accessories such thetherlock
2nd I do not like when someone tries to explain that it was certainly your fault (hardware, bad practice). Of course I agree that in many cases is the fault of the user (the reasons you mentioned), but unfortunately a large fault lies with the same hardware and software. If someone tried to use the SDK (Phocus) knows what I say.
H4D40 - this is a good camera, even very good. But as the system creates more problems than PhaseOne system. Just hire more high-end programmers. If this element is fixed, it will be a good piece of equipment. As we know, each system is as strong as the weakest link.
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Phocus does not crash.I use it extensively on a daily basis.
Stanley
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Phocus does not crash.I use it extensively on a daily basis.
Stanley
It hasn't crash on me either, but "Design Freak" is right, every program crashes sooner or later.... (sooner THAN later if its Sinar Captureshop). Cheers, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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Phocus does not crash.I use it extensively on a daily basis.
Stanley
Pure statistics, the more you work the more times you're exposed to it. Little work, you can never experience it ::)
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over 40 hours shooting last month; various Hasselblad cameras 2005 to 2011, no crashes...the devil you know is better than the devil you don't...
The message for photographers who are shooting with Phocus:
- Use it on an appropriate computer with minimum (or better) specifications; pay special attention to the VRAM on the video card since Phocus uses OpenGL commands for display.
- Use common sense to keep cable secure on computer end, the camera end is fairly tight and secure - much more so than the Firewire port on the computer.
- Finish shoot and process
Bringing the conversation back to the initial question of H2 + P45+ or H4D-40; the Hasselblad magazine has a Firewire 800 connector for cable planning purposes...
Stay Creative! Challenge the status quo & question everything...
John
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Bringing the conversation back to the initial question of H2 + P45+ or H4D-40; the Hasselblad magazine has a Firewire 800 connector for cable planning purposes...
Stay Creative! Challenge the status quo & question everything...
John
Well John... you know my opinion on "closed systems" from the other thread we both participated (the one with the ....Elephant). This is the only reason I would suggest "not a MF DSLR"! Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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over 40 hours shooting last month; various Hasselblad cameras 2005 to 2011, no crashes...the devil you know is better than the devil you don't...
The message for photographers who are shooting with Phocus:
- Use it on an appropriate computer with minimum (or better) specifications; pay special attention to the VRAM on the video card since Phocus uses OpenGL commands for display.
- Use common sense to keep cable secure on computer end, the camera end is fairly tight and secure - much more so than the Firewire port on the computer.
- Finish shoot and process
Bringing the conversation back to the initial question of H2 + P45+ or H4D-40; the Hasselblad magazine has a Firewire 800 connector for cable planning purposes...
Stay Creative! Challenge the status quo & question everything...
John
I also possessed multiple cameras, in the fall after my grandmother got a model 500 - neither my grandmother nor I - nothing ever crashed. My X-pan as well. Everything works stable :D
But now seriously: 40 hours a month, what for me is 4 sessions (4 days). I worked very hard over the past 5 years. This is what I write is backed by extensive experience I have gained in previous jobs. I know this stuff inside out. I know the pros and cons of this equipment. I'll write it again - the biggest drawback of this camera is a firewire port. Without theterlock - can not work hard. (After intensive work without theterlock - you land in the service) When it comes to cables, you can check out my recommendations on this board for just the selection of high quality cables. (I tested all possible cables) I am a person with high technical culture. So you do not need me as a layman to explain what to do. If only we all wanted to take pictures on the CF card - it would be perfect. Unfortunately, we all want to connect a cable to your computer. And in my opinion in this area P1 beats Hasselblad. P1/C1 is much more resistant to extreme situations. (With the same equipment - P1 works with almost no problem for the whole day, while the Hasselblad is suspended 5 times) Although the equipment meets all requirements (desktop) , we can say is that even well above those requirements. If the OP will be photographed reproductions - I recommend him Hasselblad equipment. But for intensive work - I recommended P1 system.
Ps.
I have read about Thunderbolt on Hot Wire. I am impressed. After a time someone woke up, that is the technology. And I wrote about it to them long before this technology came to light ...
Greetings
DF
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Contrary to the experience that DF had, a few months ago I put together a clothing catalog with over 1500 items and at least 4 colors (usually more) on each item. The total number of images published was over 7,000 images, and some images were shot over and over until the art director approved of the lighting and composition of each item. We were thrilled that Phocus never crashed; we used the standard cables that I think were delivered with the camera. The latest version of Phocus does not crash
Stanley
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Well, when you know the history about DF and Hasselblad, you will read his posts about Hasselblad with that in mind .-).
Maybe, I say maybe, he is a little biased ( in a negative way )
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javascript:void(0);
Well, when you know the history about DF and Hasselblad, you will read his posts about Hasselblad with that in mind .-).
Maybe, I say maybe, he is a little biased ( in a negative way )
I'm not DF but I got really upset from your provocative quote. :o DF has NEVER EVER said that phocus crashes! ??? You've put that on his mouth! >:( He only said that ANY PROGRAM CRASHES SOONER OR LATER! :P That action (with no motive whatsoever) of yours AND OF "gigdagefg" (where do you people find those.... names(?)) ::), demands an apology! :-X Cheers (well.. not really), Mr. (for you and gigdagefg only) Theodoros, :-* www.fotometria.gr
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How can facts be biased? ???
But the post of OP is a kind of provocation. I am quite confident about the next person that is substituted by Hasselblad to use the free advertising. Besides, there are many people who practically did not exist in this forum. I believe that this is not the way to success. It should just start producing more and better equipment, marketing is not everything. Why did he ask what to choose, since he already has chosen equipment? (OP) What was revealed at the beginning of this thread. And who is biased here.
Best regards,
DF
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Uncalled for??
How can we trust a person not to be biased when he was working as a Hasselblad agent some years ago and lost his license to sell Hasselblad.
This is some of DFs posts when he was dealing Hasselblad back in 2009:
"I use Phocus. And I am really happy with this software. It's fast and give me best quality."
"For me Hasselblad is the best system on the market right now.
With H3DII-39 I don't have any problems that i have with older model of H system. Amazing lenses with central shutter. HCD 28 is perfect. HC 2.2./100mm is my favorite lens.
HTS 1.5 works very nice. We can use 28,35,50,80,100 also with extension tube. (DAC work- it;s something) 80% of tabletop photography we can do with HTS 1.5.
If you need more adv system - you can buy arca or linhof wiht HR lenses and att digital unit via sliding adapter. You don't need computer if you don't want. It;s simple - att battery grip to adapter and go.
In Phocus 1.1 you have white calibration tool - also you can change setings of your HR lenses directly form Phocus. Ver 1.1 is much much faster that 1.0.1 Guys from Denmark do great job.
Right now you will not have any problems with upgrading firmware, phocus will do everything.
Working tethered to your computer is very very fast.
But somebody tell that is close system... My question is : who care about it? if you get in this system everything what you want Nikon and Canon are close system too. They droping the price too. Is it something wrong?
I think that no. Phase, Leaf , Sinar in my opinion don't have full range of accesories (viewfinders,lenses etc.) and their prices are too high. I don't think that they product are bad. They don't have "complete system".
If you use phase, sinar or leaf, and you are happy with it. Everything is ok. Because it is only your tool. Best tool for me is Hasselblad. "
"I read this. And it's correct. Mamiya lenses are not so good. I use both P65+ and H3DII 50 but P65+ with hasselblad body. It's true Hasselblad is better in 50-200 iso range. But it was design to work in the studio where we use 50-100 ISO.
Ok Phase is better in 400-800 but when we use sensor plus. But in this situation we get only 15mpix files. In my opinion it;s better to buy Nikon d3s if you want use higher iso. It's cheap and more useable.
Multishot camera are always better then single shot.
In my opinion Hasselblad is much much better than Phase, Because they have whole system. Working system. Sorry to said that but Phase One camera have still "children syndrom""
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And what about this turnaround by Design Freak
19.03.2011 he wrote:
"heheh ;-)
Hasselblad at all is better. Anyone who has held both cameras in hand, knows what I say. Hasselblad is the best-designed mediumformat camera which produced so far. Phase One body is very poor ergonomics, poorly balanced, the grip is too short (sticks in hand), by fitting the V-grip can work, but unfortunately it is not well designed, bad choice of wheels are arranged, after an hour of work is being felt pain. All the time you have to use two batteries, one for the body, one for DB. Also circulated a myth that the Phase One camera is smaller, lighter and has better optics. I strongly invite you to test, I use both systems and I know what I say. In the case of the Hasselblad can talk about your system, in the case of Phase One did not. Still a lot of work on the Phase One camera system.
Sorry that I focused on the camera, but the many myths that must be overturned.
Returning to the differences between the P40 + and H4D40. AF System: Hasselblad has a much faster and more accurate autofocus (White LED), the system works perfectly True Focus (3-point autofocus system Phase One looks at it as an archaism.) Hasselblad has a range of 11 lenses
But the most important argument is the image quality. H4D40 is according to me the best camera, which was developed over the last few years. Color reproduction is excellent, the quality of images above 200ISO is unbeatable for Phase One. You could say that it is an entirely different league. Of course, "Sensor Plus" gives better results, but 10Mpix this is not what is expected for the hardware for the money. I strongly urge everyone to test and compare.
Best regards,
Design Freak"
And 11.04.2011 he wrote:
"Please think about that before you buy it. Everybody exchange Hasselblad right now to Leaf or Phase One. Hasselblad have a lot of problems with software.
I used a Hasselblad for 6 years. I always thought it was excellent equipment. But now since I'm using P1, feels like another world. Nothing is crashing, do not have to stop work every moment. What was very stressful during the session, where an advertising agency with a client was behind my back. Now I have no such problems. Ask yourself why this guy sells you the equipment in such an attractive price. In my opinion, he had had enough of this equipment and want to get rid of it quickly"
I bet he lost his dealership with Hasselblad somewhere between those dates.
Of course I am not after Design Freak ( I do not know the guy ).
But be careful trusting information on the net.
People may have alternate agendas.
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Uncalled for??
How can we trust a person not to be biased when he was working as a Hasselblad agent some years ago and lost his license to sell Hasselblad.
This is some of DFs posts when he was dealing Hasselblad back in 2009:
"I use Phocus. And I am really happy with this software. It's fast and give me best quality."
"For me Hasselblad is the best system on the market right now.
With H3DII-39 I don't have any problems that i have with older model of H system. Amazing lenses with central shutter. HCD 28 is perfect. HC 2.2./100mm is my favorite lens.
HTS 1.5 works very nice. We can use 28,35,50,80,100 also with extension tube. (DAC work- it;s something) 80% of tabletop photography we can do with HTS 1.5.
If you need more adv system - you can buy arca or linhof wiht HR lenses and att digital unit via sliding adapter. You don't need computer if you don't want. It;s simple - att battery grip to adapter and go.
In Phocus 1.1 you have white calibration tool - also you can change setings of your HR lenses directly form Phocus. Ver 1.1 is much much faster that 1.0.1 Guys from Denmark do great job.
Right now you will not have any problems with upgrading firmware, phocus will do everything.
Working tethered to your computer is very very fast.
But somebody tell that is close system... My question is : who care about it? if you get in this system everything what you want Nikon and Canon are close system too. They droping the price too. Is it something wrong?
I think that no. Phase, Leaf , Sinar in my opinion don't have full range of accesories (viewfinders,lenses etc.) and their prices are too high. I don't think that they product are bad. They don't have "complete system".
If you use phase, sinar or leaf, and you are happy with it. Everything is ok. Because it is only your tool. Best tool for me is Hasselblad. "
"I read this. And it's correct. Mamiya lenses are not so good. I use both P65+ and H3DII 50 but P65+ with hasselblad body. It's true Hasselblad is better in 50-200 iso range. But it was design to work in the studio where we use 50-100 ISO.
Ok Phase is better in 400-800 but when we use sensor plus. But in this situation we get only 15mpix files. In my opinion it;s better to buy Nikon d3s if you want use higher iso. It's cheap and more useable.
Multishot camera are always better then single shot.
In my opinion Hasselblad is much much better than Phase, Because they have whole system. Working system. Sorry to said that but Phase One camera have still "children syndrom""
It's all true, it was oct 2008. Phase One camera was not perfect then, the same optics. There was no regard to quality, I never hid that this is the perfect camera for reproductive purposes and gives the best quality. And then only for such applications have used this camera. Hence, I wrote about the system, a very successful construction of HTS. These are facts.
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Uncalled for??
How can we trust a person not to be biased when he was working as a Hasselblad agent some years ago and lost his license to sell Hasselblad.
This is some of DFs posts when he was dealing Hasselblad back in 2009:
"I use Phocus. And I am really happy with this software. It's fast and give me best quality."
"For me Hasselblad is the best system on the market right now.
With H3DII-39 I don't have any problems that i have with older model of H system. Amazing lenses with central shutter. HCD 28 is perfect. HC 2.2./100mm is my favorite lens.
HTS 1.5 works very nice. We can use 28,35,50,80,100 also with extension tube. (DAC work- it;s something) 80% of tabletop photography we can do with HTS 1.5.
If you need more adv system - you can buy arca or linhof wiht HR lenses and att digital unit via sliding adapter. You don't need computer if you don't want. It;s simple - att battery grip to adapter and go.
In Phocus 1.1 you have white calibration tool - also you can change setings of your HR lenses directly form Phocus. Ver 1.1 is much much faster that 1.0.1 Guys from Denmark do great job.
Right now you will not have any problems with upgrading firmware, phocus will do everything.
Working tethered to your computer is very very fast.
But somebody tell that is close system... My question is : who care about it? if you get in this system everything what you want Nikon and Canon are close system too. They droping the price too. Is it something wrong?
I think that no. Phase, Leaf , Sinar in my opinion don't have full range of accesories (viewfinders,lenses etc.) and their prices are too high. I don't think that they product are bad. They don't have "complete system".
If you use phase, sinar or leaf, and you are happy with it. Everything is ok. Because it is only your tool. Best tool for me is Hasselblad. "
"I read this. And it's correct. Mamiya lenses are not so good. I use both P65+ and H3DII 50 but P65+ with hasselblad body. It's true Hasselblad is better in 50-200 iso range. But it was design to work in the studio where we use 50-100 ISO.
Ok Phase is better in 400-800 but when we use sensor plus. But in this situation we get only 15mpix files. In my opinion it;s better to buy Nikon d3s if you want use higher iso. It's cheap and more useable.
Multishot camera are always better then single shot.
In my opinion Hasselblad is much much better than Phase, Because they have whole system. Working system. Sorry to said that but Phase One camera have still "children syndrom""
What does all this has to do with him quoting "that every program crashes sooner or later"? >:( I don't know about his or yours previous thread "fights" and to tell you the truth ...I don't give an "F" about them... its just that its really embarassing to see people jumping others without any obvious reason whatsoever! This is not a photographer's behaviour, is it? A photographer is not a firm junkie or pone...., nor manufacturers are football clubs!
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It's all true, it was oct 2008. Phase One camera was not perfect then, the same optics. There was no regard to quality, I never hid that this is the perfect camera for reproductive purposes and gives the best quality. And then only for such applications have used this camera. Hence, I wrote about the system, a very successful construction of HTS. These are facts.
Jesus! what all this has to do with the OP? >:( If you guys don't stop that nonsense immediately I will never reply or respect you again! Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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Jesus! what all this has to do with the OP? >:( If you guys don't stop that nonsense immediately I will never reply or respect you again! Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
I'm sorry you very much , I agree with you. :(
Unfortunately, I give the facts. And I'm being attacked. I understand that my knowledge is inconvenient. But this is probably a slight exaggeration. I would like to cut it once and for all.
So
I was an employee of the company. So do not you call the right door. I am not responsible for the company where I worked. So another post attacking me, will be able to have their termination in court. Now I'm not obliged to praise the Hasselblad, so I can now write what personally think so.
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I'm sorry you very much , I agree with you. :(
Unfortunately, I give the facts. And I'm being attacked. I understand that my knowledge is inconvenient. But this is probably a slight exaggeration. I would like to cut it once and for all.
So
I was an employee of the company. So do not you call the right door. I am not responsible for the company where I worked. So another post attacking me, will be able to have their termination in court. Now I'm not obliged to praise the Hasselblad, so I can now write what personally think so.
It still has nothing to do with the OP! Dammit! Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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"Now I'm not obliged to praise the Hasselblad, so I can now write what personally think so."
This is exactly what I mean!!!
NOW, you say you can write what you personally think!
Well, how could we know that back then, you did NOT write what you mean?
And if you didnt do that back then, whas it a lot of lies then. :-)
I am not attacking you, I just use you as an example of " NOT TO TRUST WHAT YOU READ ON THE NET ".
But probably most of us knew that already.-).
And the court threat......hello.......
This is my last comment on this matter.
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I do think it would help if people in these threads were clear about who they are and hence any bias they might have. My sig has a link to the user forum so my bias is pretty apparent. I think it's great that Mr Freak is finally telling us what he really thinks and that it would be useful for newcomers to the thread if Mr Freak had something like "Bitter former Hasselblad dealer" in his signature.
To get things back on topic I find Phocus very stable these days, that has not always been the case, nor was it with flexcolour. I cannot (and should not) speak for capture One as I don't use it, others can chime in there. I do however use phocus and have been since it was in alpha, I Shoot almost exclusively in studio, probably around 15 days a month and these days I would say I get a software crash maybe once every one/two months, so phocus is IMO pretty stable. I do have systems in place to resolve any issues as detailed here:
http://www.nick-t.com/blog/2010/03/best-practice-or-how-to-tether-in-style/
Nick-T
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"Now I'm not obliged to praise the Hasselblad, so I can now write what personally think so."
This is exactly what I mean!!!
NOW, you say you can write what you personally think!
Well, how could we know that back then, you did NOT write what you mean?
And if you didnt do that back then, whas it a lot of lies then. :-)
I am not attacking you, I just use you as an example of " NOT TO TRUST WHAT YOU READ ON THE NET ".
But probably most of us knew that already.-).
And the court threat......hello.......
This is my last comment on this matter.
Unfortunately you are wrong a lot. You Got a problem to cope with the space-time. At that time it was a sincere and objective, backed by experience position. Then I wrote what I think and it was true, now as well. And if someone asks whether you choose H2 + P1 or H4D40. I say based on my experience: none of these. Why? Because I know that h2 can not use the newest lenses. Because I know that Hasselblad equipment makes some problems in certain conditions. That is why I would choose the system P1. Also, because I know that we will have a new camera and new lenses. Man is a being endowed with intelligence and evolves. And based on their experience, belief that man changing.
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I do think it would help if people in these threads were clear about who they are and hence any bias they might have. My sig has a link to the user forum so my bias is pretty apparent. I think it's great that Mr Freak is finally telling us what he really thinks and that it would be useful for newcomers to the thread if Mr Freak had something like "Bitter former Hasselblad dealer" in his signature.
To get things back on topic I find Phocus very stable these days, that has not always been the case, nor was it with flexcolour. I cannot (and should not) speak for capture One as I don't use it, others can chime in there. I do however use phocus and have been since it was in alpha, I Shoot almost exclusively in studio, probably around 15 days a month and these days I would say I get a software crash maybe once every one/two months, so phocus is IMO pretty stable. I do have systems in place to resolve any issues as detailed here:
http://www.nick-t.com/blog/2010/03/best-practice-or-how-to-tether-in-style/
Nick-T
First: I am not finally wrote what I think, because then I wrote what I thought. Now I have only this comfort that I must not be politically correct.
Second: Using your logic: I can not believe what you write because you are associated with the Hasselblad.
So
In your blog, you wrote a beautiful instructions on how to prepare for shooting. So what is the result? Does that convince us that there is no problem? Of course the fault of the Mac. And all this on a blog extolling the Hasselblad. Really be surprised if there were any critical comments about the hardware / software. I am sorry but i do not eat that.
And so you want someone to convince? Can you point out the shortcomings of this equipment? That meant that you would become a credible. And finally, what do you recommend to OP?
Best regards,
DF
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Sorry DF, but I cannot stay away from this BS! It is you that have a time/space problem.
The first post I referred to by you, where you were a huge Hasselblad fan and trashed P1, was dated 19.03.2011 and the next post where you did just the opposite, were from 11.04.2011.
Thats only three weeks appart.
So you were honest and sincere both of these times.
What happend with Hasselblad and P1 in these three weeks that led to your total turnaround??
I do not think it was "backed by experience position"as you say, but by position only.
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Sorry DF, but I cannot stay away from this BS! It is you that have a time/space problem.
The first post I referred to by you, where you were a huge Hasselblad fan and trashed P1, was dated 19.03.2011 and the next post where you did just the opposite, were from 11.04.2011.
Thats only three weeks appart.
So you were honest and sincere both of these times.
What happend with Hasselblad and P1 in these three weeks that led to your total turnaround??
I do not think it was "backed by experience position"as you say, but by position only.
Can you read and understand? Read the two statements again. Think again. And maybe you get to the fact that both statements are sincere and true. To this day I believe that "H4D40" is a very good camera. Note to P1 also is honest and based on experience. (It is not ergonomic, or lighter, smaller.) Second, say, is also honest, I wrote that this is happening and why. And it is true that in my country rental studios sold out Hasselblad equipment and turned on the P1/Leaf.
What happened for those 3 weeks. Very much. I'll just say that I worked in a studio that was the sales tool of Hasselblad. (Such as in London only a much larger and established a few years before). It was the kind of testing ground for me. So after parting with the brand Hasselblad, I had the opportunity to work through this time on the hardware of P1. And it was a shock. Only then I saw how fun can become a job. How much less stress, a completely different world. Despite some shortcomings in ergonomics. Returning to the topic, do you answer a question that asked the OP? ::)
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I have tried to stay away from this Design Freak vs Hasselblad subject but it is getting slightly out of hand as the weeks go by. More to the point, it potentially could be clouding or at least irritating for people wanting to get the most out of this forum.
Yes, perhaps in those three weeks there was some dramatic eye opening turnaround for Design Freak, but this would not explain why he sent me a PM in July congratulating on the new H4D60 firmware features and stating it was 'a pity' he was no longer selling Hasselblad.
With this in mind I would still suggest caution over Design Freaks recommendations.
However, knowing him personally he could of course be a great source of knowledge to this forum as well. So I hope we can all agree to disagree.
Best Regards,
David
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gigdagefg are the initials of my two children and my wife-Thank you
Stanley
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I have tried to stay away from this Design Freak vs Hasselblad subject but it is getting slightly out of hand as the weeks go by. More to the point, it potentially could be clouding or at least irritating for people wanting to get the most out of this forum.
Yes, perhaps in those three weeks there was some dramatic eye opening turnaround for Design Freak, but this would not explain why he sent me a PM in July congratulating on the new H4D60 firmware features and stating it was 'a pity' he was no longer selling Hasselblad.
With this in mind I would still suggest caution over Design Freaks recommendations.
However, knowing him personally he could of course be a great source of knowledge to this forum as well. So I hope we can all agree to disagree.
Best Regards,
David
David,
Why are you surprised that I sent you PM? And what does this have to do with the topic? If people work together for a few years, this should not surprise anyone. Normal human reflex. Have not worked with this? So I congratulated the hard work, because I knew that you put in a lot of time and heart. That despite many difficulties, you have made it. Firmware H4D60 (many months later). Many people in this company, including you, I really respect. I do not like the current marketing which I expressed many times. And a few things. But it does not matter.
It is also not true that I said that I regret that I can not sell products Hasselblad. I wrote that I regret that I can not continue to be with you. And that's a big difference. Just working in this company a lot of very cool people. I am interested in technical matters and the same photograph. I had such a job. And caused me great satisfaction. Nobody should be surprised that fact. It is difficult to break away from this because it works like a drug. I realize that what I write is sometimes inconvenient, but such are the facts. I try to be objective. If someone asks what equipment to choose, I answer him what is the best option. Due to the fact that I did not try hard to sell.
You can agree with that or not. But that you wrote not to listen to my advice, is just ridiculous. I understand that my knowledge is inconvenient. But that's not my problem.
Yours
DF
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PLEASE GUYS CAN YOU STOP IT? PLEEEEAAASE :'(
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I try to be objective.
No, you’re not. Every product has its shortcomings and you have a right to point them out but overemphaszing and enlarging the shortcomings of one brand and almost completely ignoring the shortcomings of other brands is not being objective. It is being very very biased. Also counterattacking every positive post about Hasselblad with a negative one is not what I would call being objective. You are very very biased towards Hasselblad and you deliberately try to damage them because of personal reasons.
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No, you’re not. Every product has its shortcomings and you have a right to point them out but overemphaszing and enlarging the shortcomings of one brand and almost completely ignoring the shortcomings of other brands is not being objective. It is being very very biased. Also counterattacking every positive post about Hasselblad with a negative one is not what I would call being objective. You are very very biased towards Hasselblad and you deliberately try to damage them because of personal reasons.
Nobody tried to write anything just lying like you. Each equipment has disadvantages. I do not write only about the shortcomings of Hasselblad equipment. You are forewarned. I have written many times about the shortcomings of the P1 camera. So I demand an apology. And who are you really? Also there is no signature. Destroy the Hasselblad brand? you're kidding yourself. Leadership commits to something! Maybe that's why often points out the flaws. Until then, I believe that the equipment P1 is more stable and reliable, despite some ergonomic shortcomings. When it comes to the same DB, there are still a lot in the front before the Hasselblad. I'm not trying to destroy anyone, quite the contrary. I believe that competition is good. Time will tell us, who used his chance and who does not.
OP should buy p45 + h2 - if not completely allowed transition options for system p1. Larger sensor, 1h exposure, lack of microlenses.The ability to use film. Very stable, proven design of this equipment. Price is the same, and many more possibilities.
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Also there is no signature.
Good point!
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I bought a Phase One but state freely that I would not recommend that experience to anyone else. Does that mark me as dishonest or a fraud? I think I can answer the question for myself. It just marks me as an idiot. No news here.
Edmund
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Nobody tried to write anything just lying like you. Each equipment has disadvantages. I do not write only about the shortcomings of Hasselblad equipment. You are forewarned. I have written many times about the shortcomings of the P1 camera. So I demand an apology. And who are you really? Also there is no signature. Destroy the Hasselblad brand? you're kidding yourself. Leadership commits to something! Maybe that's why often points out the flaws. Until then, I believe that the equipment P1 is more stable and reliable, despite some ergonomic shortcomings. When it comes to the same DB, there are still a lot in the front before the Hasselblad. I'm not trying to destroy anyone, quite the contrary. I believe that competition is good. Time will tell us, who used his chance and who does not.
OP should buy p45 + h2 - if not completely allowed transition options for system p1. Larger sensor, 1h exposure, lack of microlenses.The ability to use film. Very stable, proven design of this equipment. Price is the same, and many more possibilities.
Dear design_freak, last post on this topic, you are putting words in my mouth that I never used. I never said that you “only” wrote about the shortcomings of Hasselblad. I said that you overemphasized and enlarged its shortcomings and I stick to that. I also never said that you were “destroying” Hasselblad. I would never give you that much credit. I said that you deliberately were trying to damage Hasselblad and I stick to that. As to my identity, I am an amateur shooter with a H1/P30+ combo and 5 lenses. I have no affiliation with Hasselblad nor Phase One whatsoever. Besides that I have no intentions whatsoever to offer any apologies to somebody who calls me a liar. BTW, if you were truly trying to be objective you might also want to mention to the OP that the Phase One camera has a mirror lockup problem, that Capture 1 only supports 6 out of 9 HC lenses, that the P45+ has a much poorer ISO performance, etc. If these were shortcomings of the Hasselblad system you would be repeating them over and over again in each and every discussed thread…
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Dear design_freak, last post on this topic, you are putting words in my mouth that I never used. I never said that you “only” wrote about the shortcomings of Hasselblad. I said that you overemphasized and enlarged its shortcomings and I stick to that. I also never said that you were “destroying” Hasselblad. I would never give you that much credit. I said that you deliberately were trying to damage Hasselblad and I stick to that. As to my identity, I am an amateur shooter with a H1/P30+ combo and 5 lenses. I have no affiliation with Hasselblad nor Phase One whatsoever. Besides that I have no intentions whatsoever to offer any apologies to somebody who calls me a liar. BTW, if you were truly trying to be objective you might also want to mention to the OP that the Phase One camera has a mirror lockup problem, that Capture 1 only supports 6 out of 9 HC lenses, that the P45+ has a much poorer ISO performance, etc. If these were shortcomings of the Hasselblad system you would be repeating them over and over again in each and every discussed thread…
You wrote that I do not see flaws of others, and just exaggerate flaws Hasselblad. Listen, it's hard to pass by some problems, especially when you disturb or even prevent your job. You mention that there are any problems with the HC lenses in Capture 1, what exactly is it? What does it mean that it is not support? It does not show a picture made of these lenses? What kind of problems you have with the Phase One camera? What model do you have?
If you are using a H1+P30+. How do you know that H4D40 is better than h2+P45 +? hmmm?
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What happened to the original discussion?
Some of us are still interested in getting the views of actual users. Here is my take
. If you want long exposures, then P45+ is a no brainer.
. If you are like me, satisfied with normal exposure times and would love to get higher ISO, as well as an integrated camera/back system, then it is H4D-40 or some may prefer P40 with Phase camera, especially those who do not mind 10MP at higher ISO once in a while, P40 is definitely better choice.
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In addition to superior handling, TrueFocus, a wide range of leaf shutter lenses, the HTS tilt and shift adapter, competitive pricing,and an unrivalled support network Hasselblad now has much better integration with Lightroom and Camera Raw. No contest in my view. It is the H4D all the way!
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I'm an actual user of a H4D-50. I see advantages in the integrated approach adopted by Hasselblad.
Perhaps the difference between Phase and Hasselblad is that Phase One are primarily makers of digital backs, whereas Hasselblad are primarily makers of Cameras. That may be too simplistic, but it does inform their design approach. Hasselblad have gone for the integrated approach where the digital back is but one part of the bigger picture. This allows them to offer True Focus better system integration.
I have been and remain happy with my H4D-50 and would recommend Hasselblad. With Hasselblad you are buying a system, not a component in a system.
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In addition to superior handling, TrueFocus, a wide range of leaf shutter lenses, the HTS tilt and shift adapter, competitive pricing,and an unrivalled support network Hasselblad now has much better integration with Lightroom and Camera Raw. No contest in my view. It is the H4D all the way!
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/news/hts-15-notification.aspx
If it's true ...
The question is why
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I'm an actual user of a H4D-50. I see advantages in the integrated approach adopted by Hasselblad.
Perhaps the difference between Phase and Hasselblad is that Phase One are primarily makers of digital backs, whereas Hasselblad are primarily makers of Cameras. That may be too simplistic, but it does inform their design approach. Hasselblad have gone for the integrated approach where the digital back is but one part of the bigger picture. This allows them to offer True Focus better system integration.
I have been and remain happy with my H4D-50 and would recommend Hasselblad. With Hasselblad you are buying a system, not a component in a system.
Yes, I agree that is too simplistic to consider Phase One a maker of digital backs, considering that in addition to making digital backs, Phase One also has a dominant ownership position with Mamiya, and counts in its product line Leaf Imaging, who have their own unique digital back technology as well as 6x6 camera technology (via the AFi). In addition, Phase One has forged a long term, formalized partnership with Schneider Optics who, in a relatively short period of time, have announced 6 Leaf Shutter lenses (4 currently shipping), and a 120mm T/S lens. This doesn't even touch on the software side of their business with Media Pro and Capture One.
The primary difference between the approach of Hasselblad and Phase One in terms of camera systems, is the level of integration and the fact that while their is indeed integration between the Phase One and Leaf digital backs and the Phase One/Mamiya DF Camera, Phase One/Mamiya have not restricted the ability of 3rd parties to create a digital back end for their front end product.While currently selling options for that are scarce, there are still a very large number of 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation digital backs that still have that option. The level of integration is certainly different, and that is due to the very different electronic design starting points of each camera.
Considering that there are not one, but two new cameras in development by Phase One/Mamiya, combined with the Schneider partnership, and factoring the Leaf technology team, I'd say Phase One is anything but primarily a digital back maker.
So back to the original OP, who probably fled for good reason, it is likely that his choice of H4D-40 and P45+ were based on pricing similarities, and as such, certainly there is merit in comparing the two products. Since he did not embellish his intended usage, the positives of each system stand alone.
P45+
*Best long, long exposure solution on the market for large sensors and high resolution
*Close to 90% 645 frame coverage
*Lower ISO starting point
*Significantly superior software platform with Capture One
*Ability to be used on other medium format camera platforms
*Ability to be used on technical/view cameras with a very wide array of the sharpest lenses available
Perhaps one of the most important unstated advantages for a Phase One owner is investing into a company that is internally-owned, with no one to answer to but themselves and who, from any objective accounting, are thriving as a company that possesses a desirable collection of segment-leading technology with a robust R&D department. And based on what we saw this year with the introduction of the IQ series, there's a lot more to come.
Steve Hendrix
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Freak HTS sales in the US are currently on hold because of a patent dispute, just ya know FYI.
Nick-T
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Yes, I agree that is too simplistic to consider Phase One a maker of digital backs, considering that in addition to making digital backs, Phase One also has a dominant ownership position with Mamiya, and counts in its product line Leaf Imaging, who have their own unique digital back technology as well as 6x6 camera technology (via the AFi). In addition, Phase One has forged a long term, formalized partnership with Schneider Optics who, in a relatively short period of time, have announced 6 Leaf Shutter lenses (4 currently shipping), and a 120mm T/S lens. This doesn't even touch on the software side of their business with Media Pro and Capture One.
The primary difference between the approach of Hasselblad and Phase One in terms of camera systems, is the level of integration and the fact that while their is indeed integration between the Phase One and Leaf digital backs and the Phase One/Mamiya DF Camera, Phase One/Mamiya have not restricted the ability of 3rd parties to create a digital back end for their front end product.While currently selling options for that are scarce, there are still a very large number of 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation digital backs that still have that option. The level of integration is certainly different, and that is due to the very different electronic design starting points of each camera.
Considering that there are not one, but two new cameras in development by Phase One/Mamiya, combined with the Schneider partnership, and factoring the Leaf technology team, I'd say Phase One is anything but primarily a digital back maker.
So back to the original OP, who probably fled for good reason, it is likely that his choice of H4D-40 and P45+ were based on pricing similarities, and as such, certainly there is merit in comparing the two products. Since he did not embellish his intended usage, the positives of each system stand alone.
P45+
*Best long, long exposure solution on the market for large sensors and high resolution
*Close to 90% 645 frame coverage
*Lower ISO starting point
*Significantly superior software platform with Capture One
*Ability to be used on other medium format camera platforms
*Ability to be used on technical/view cameras with a very wide array of the sharpest lenses available
Perhaps one of the most important unstated advantages for a Phase One owner is investing into a company that is internally-owned, with no one to answer to but themselves and who, from any objective accounting, are thriving as a company that possesses a desirable collection of segment-leading technology with a robust R&D department. And based on what we saw this year with the introduction of the IQ series, there's a lot more to come.
Steve Hendrix
In addition to your correct post, I feel that it must be added that "buying price" is not "the actual cost". Buying from a "closed" system demands to "sign a contract" of loyalty with the manufacturer for future upgrade, lens dependence and mutual trust for the future. Such a loyalty can be very costly and even more so if a ...."divorce" will happen. If I would buy Hass I would go for the V system with P1, or Leaf, or Sinar, or S/H Imacon or CF, DBs. Thus I could use 2 DBs if I needed, use film, upgrade the back, keep the back and lenses and buy another makers camera, or whatever! But then again I'm more than happy with my Contax645 12 lens system and Imacon multishot back. If I was to upgrade the back, I would buy a modern refurbished one and keep my 528c for its superb multishot true color capabilities, If i was to upgrade my lenses..... upgrade to what? ;D Regards, Theodoros www.fotometria.gr
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Freak HTS sales in the US are currently on hold because of a patent dispute, just ya know FYI.
Nick-T
Hi Nick,
It's just a shame, because it's really cool device. I trust that everything will end happily.
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As many readers come here as a clearinghouse of information, I also wanted to be sure there was no confusion on the H4D-40 vs H2/P45+
- The Hasselblad digital magazine can be removed and used on any mount that supports the "H" style, so this means a variety of technical cameras with digitar lenses;
- The operation of Phocus in live video mode is not limited to short durations, a real value to studio shooters
- RAW processing by Phocus versus CaptureOne is a toss-up, I am sure to get some noise about this and I welcome the opportunity to show the possibilities of Phocus to those who have experience with C1
There is something to be said about the differences in capability and compatibility as it relates to the H4D-40 and the H2/P45+:
The H4D is designed for the components to work together without barriers; the electronic autofocusing lens communicates real-time with the rest of the system as does the viewfinder, body, and digital magazine. The H2 cannot communicate with the P45+ at this level, so while compatible, it is at the expense of capable.
It is apparent that Hasselblad has pursued the capability route in terms of creating a DSLR system (body, lenses, magazine, software) that is capable of doing things that are unmatched by modular solutions; these were once features of 35mm but now expected performance basics by photographers in 2011.
Additionally, it appears that PhaseOne with agreements mentioned by Steve above with Mamiya, Schneider, and Leaf are also pursuing a DSLR system in parallel to the existing modular "compatibility" solution. One form of compatibility is manually focusing a lens instead of controlling the lens electronically, another is leaving the lens open in order to focus while in live video mode, yet another means supporting a camera system no longer in production (i.e. Fuji GX680 or Contax) I argue: Is this the way forward?
The challenges are not insignificant in either route; I will say that it is incredibly difficult to get many teams working in conjunction to produce the equipment that is available for you to purchase at your leisure.
Each company has selected a strategic avenue to you - the paying client - who vote with your $$$. In the process of competing, you benefit from the R&D, the contributions of each manufacturer to the photographic community (Hasselblad Masters, etc.) and advancement of imaging to distinguish your capabilities from the masses that do not (yet) possess matching capability.
Do your research, solicit opinions from users (and brand affectionados) then get a hands-on demo! This will allow you to determine if the equipment solution will work for your specific requirements.
Be Well!
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I should make clear a couple things.
First, my bullet point regarding P45+ and use on Technical/View Cameras with a large assortment of Schneider/Rodenstock lenses means lenses that range from the 23mm Rodenstock on up, with the ability to take full advantage or nearly full advantage of the image circles of any of these lenses. I don't know that the H4D-40, with its microlenses - similarly to the P30+ or H4D-31 - can provide the same performance. John - you'll have to let us know the results of your testing. :)
While I did not mention it, we certainly have many clients who still utilize a Hasselblad H1 or H2 camera system with the Phase One or Leaf digital back of their choice, despite the H2 being discontinued by Hasselblad. This is a choice. There's nothing wrong with the choice if it works for them (and it does). But though the OP mentioned P45+/H2, it should be pointed out that he can also consider the P45+ on numerous other camera platforms (Contax, Hasselbald V, and certainly Phase One/Mamiya). Indeed he went so far as to mention the flash sync speed advantage the Phase One DF has over the Hasselblad H system as a particular desire for him.
I also want to say that while a camera system may be made up of "modular" components, I don't necessarily agree that "integration", the idea that the camera system is a complete unit rather than a set of modular components, is not an option for a modular system. There is substantial integration between the Phase One/Mamiya DF Camera and Leaf and Phase One digital backs. I don't believe they necessarily need to be exclusive.
Will the new camera systems from Phase One in the coming years prove to be completely proprietary (non-modular)? That remains to be seen. At this point, however, Phase One has shown that enhanced integration can be achieved while still maintaining a modular system.
Steve Hendrix
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You mention that there are any problems with the HC lenses in Capture 1, what exactly is it? What does it mean that it is not support? It does not show a picture made of these lenses?
Capture One supports the 35mm, 80mm, 100mm, 120mm, 150mm and 50-110mm lenses. It does not support the 50mm(-II), 210mm and 300mm lenses. As I am looking to buy the 50mm-II lens this is a concern. If I had a fully integrated Hasselblad solution I wouldn't have to worry about this.
What kind of problems you have with the Phase One camera? What model do you have?
I don't have a Phase One camera but I can read that it has a mirror lockup problem:
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30729
and even on this let's say rather Phase One minded site there was a recent article saying "The use of the DF camera is far from being comfortably and reliable – a big step downwards even from the H1! I still have at least one camera lockup per 50 exposures and AF is not reliable enough. "
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/iq180_vs_8x10.shtml
I did try out the Phase One camera once and I fully agree with how it was once worded on this forum: "Phase One body is very poor ergonomics, poorly balanced, the grip is too short (sticks in hand), by fitting the V-grip can work, but unfortunately it is not well designed, bad choice of wheels are arranged, after an hour of work is being felt pain. All the time you have to use two batteries, one for the body, one for DB. Also circulated a myth that the Phase One camera is smaller, lighter and has better optics. I strongly invite you to test, I use both systems and I know what I say. In the case of the Hasselblad can talk about your system, in the case of Phase One did not. Still a lot of work on the Phase One camera system."
Now, who was it again who said that? Oh wait, it was you!!!!!
If you are using a H1+P30+. How do you know that H4D40 is better than h2+P45 +? hmmm?
I don't. Even if I had shot both systems for years it would still be my opinion and somebody else could have an entirely different opinion. Luckily I have the same author as above to guide me: "H4D40 is according to me the best camera, which was developed over the last few years.". I believe at the moment you wrote that the H2/P45+ combination was already available, wasn't it... ;)
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The interesting point to note is that the original query boils down to the choice between H4D-40 and P45+ backs, as both options were for the Hasselblad Camera. Which to a certain extent shows the desirability of a Hasselblad body over the Phase body to the thread starter.
Till phase comes up with a better camera, the Hasselblad Camera with its leaf shutter lenses seems to be more desirable, compared to the Phase camera. But that has to change; if Phase wants to keep all the sales dollars to itself; it needs a comparable (if not better) camera soon.
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Will the new camera systems from Phase One in the coming years prove to be completely proprietary (non-modular)? That remains to be seen. At this point, however, Phase One has shown that enhanced integration can be achieved while still maintaining a modular system.
Steve Hendrix
+1. Enhanced "system integration" is one thing, "closed system" is another, I guess we wouldn't have this discussion at all if Hass would offer the opportunity for an H4 body version that would be able to accept different makers DBs, even if this would mean that true focus wouldn't work. OTOH their decision to stop the production of the CFs, shows that they want to "close" the V system as well (having a dedicated back for V-only means that when want to upgrade the back, the back can only return on another V). I want to make clear that the last thing we photographers want is to be the "victims" of a single supplier, either if its P1 or Hass. I feel that excuses for "system integration" can't fool anybody since its independent from opening the system. I'm sure that their (suicidal) policy is a wrong marketing decision that may at the end prove to be fatal and I hope they change it before its too late. They drive customers to the competition AND shrink the MF market at the same time! :'( Regards Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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Capture One supports the 35mm, 80mm, 100mm, 120mm, 150mm and 50-110mm lenses. It does not support the 50mm(-II), 210mm and 300mm lenses. As I am looking to buy the 50mm-II lens this is a concern. If I had a fully integrated Hasselblad solution I wouldn't have to worry about this.
I don't have a Phase One camera but I can read that it has a mirror lockup problem:
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30729
and even on this let's say rather Phase One minded site there was a recent article saying "The use of the DF camera is far from being comfortably and reliable – a big step downwards even from the H1! I still have at least one camera lockup per 50 exposures and AF is not reliable enough. "
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/iq180_vs_8x10.shtml
I did try out the Phase One camera once and I fully agree with how it was once worded on this forum: "Phase One body is very poor ergonomics, poorly balanced, the grip is too short (sticks in hand), by fitting the V-grip can work, but unfortunately it is not well designed, bad choice of wheels are arranged, after an hour of work is being felt pain. All the time you have to use two batteries, one for the body, one for DB. Also circulated a myth that the Phase One camera is smaller, lighter and has better optics. I strongly invite you to test, I use both systems and I know what I say. In the case of the Hasselblad can talk about your system, in the case of Phase One did not. Still a lot of work on the Phase One camera system."
Now, who was it again who said that? Oh wait, it was you!!!!!
I don't. Even if I had shot both systems for years it would still be my opinion and somebody else could have an entirely different opinion. Luckily I have the same author as above to guide me: "H4D40 is according to me the best camera, which was developed over the last few years.". I believe at the moment you wrote that the H2/P45+ combination was already available, wasn't it... ;)
1. Learn one thing, the most important element of any system is the man. Cameras do not decide whether the picture is good. It's you decide about it. The camera is only a tool. For the professional, the problem about which you write does not exist. Annie Leibovitz takes pictures Mamiya RZ67 camera (analog), and her pictures are worse than your? Certainly not! They are far more important elements that determine the choice of the system. Only an amateur might think so! Marketing goal was achieved :-)
2. As for ergonomics, there is nothing to discuss, I am still upholds sentence on camera ergonomics P1. But this again is not so important. 8x10, RZ67, even 503cw also are not somehow special ergonomic, but the professionals around the world are using them successfully to this day. Keep in mind that P1 has prepared two new systems of cameras that will be presented soon. I am confident that they will be very thought-constructions, very ergonomic. Do not forget also that it was "Hasselblad" forced "P1" to build a camera, in a relatively short time. Unfortunately I fear that if it had hasselblad do something like that, to this day we would see only a prototype in a glass case.
3. It should be noted also that confident about who writes these posts. My impression is that this man was again substituted. I use this camera and I know that does not crash every 10 images. Mayby ones at 500 shots.
May I say that is a big problem with the hot shoe of Hasselblad. Also very annoying ailment.
4. I still think this is the best camera(H4D40) Hasselblad factory which produced (digital). But the camera itself is not enough, this camera has yet to be reliable, software needs to be polished and stable. But how would you know, people call me with problems, they do not call you. I've used this equipment a few years and every day. I met a P1 system, now I know its a huge advantage. Now waiting for a new camera.
For me it is logical that the op should buy a system P1.New lenses LS are great, just be able to buy another 4 new models. But he asked which option to choose. (Between H4D40 and H2 + p45 +)
Of the two options I would choose H2 + p45 +. For reasons already given on previous posts.
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My last thoughts on this, speaking as a long time hasselblad user.
If we return to the OPs original question we can assume he likes the H camera.
An H2 and an H4 are visually the same but the integration on the H4D40 means that there are some nice features:
Automated lens corrections and distortion corrections, (amazing with the HTS) that are much better than any other corrections due to the exact metadata being leveraged.
True Focus, the focus/recompose correction thingy. I'm a big fan and use this everyday, check it out.
One battery powers body/back
Camera control (thumbwheels) of back LCD and a bunch of other clever stuff that you'll need someone like John Williams to show you.
Then it comes down to a choice between sensor and software.
Sensor first. The Kodak 39 chip is a good chip and with Phase's implementation you can shoot up to an hour, but do note you will then need to shoot another one hour exposure for a black frame to calculate out noise specific to that exposure.
The 40 is also a Kodak but microlensed, this means you get better ISO performance than the 39 but may cause problems on tech cameras (not that the OP asked about that)
The 40 is a much newer generation chip I would guess 5 years newer than the 39 (Steve is this right?)
I have compared the 40 with the 31 and it is much better (I own a 31) apparently the 40 has better dies making for better colours.
Lastly get someone who knows both Capture One and Phocus to show you how they work. Capture One has long been the gold standard but Phocus has come on leaps and bounds and has some neat party tricks (Phocus mobile for one) again get someone who knows their stuff to give you a demo.
HTH
Nick-T
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To answer the original post, I feel the H system offers far more options than the P45 combo, such as True Focus and the HTS, among other features. I like an integrated system, Hasselblad support has been there for me, including Steve when he was an H-man. I will also add that the H lens line up is superb. You can't go wrong. In fact, if you went with an H2 and a film back, as I did for a number of years, you'd be able to produce incredible results, trust me. Good luck.
Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz
www.jecxz.com
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What is your current gear ? if you want to go to MF equipment, is it just for image quality ? are you considering to work differently ?
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http://www.hasselbladusa.com/news/hts-15-notification.aspx
If it's true ...
The question is why
I can believe that a corporation could have that bad communication skills. The note borders the lack of respect for users.
This leave the user speculating about what is going on. The new group the owns hasselblad has not release a format letter of commitment. Looks like hassyusa.com is dead, and there is the new partnership with adobe (good by itself).
Maybe is really a patent dispute, or a cost optimizing measure or other. I don't know, but they need to improve the communication skills.
Best regards,
J. Duncan
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Sensor first. The Kodak 39 chip is a good chip and with Phase's implementation you can shoot up to an hour, but do note you will then need to shoot another one hour exposure for a black frame to calculate out noise specific to that exposure.
The 40 is also a Kodak but microlensed, this means you get better ISO performance than the 39 but may cause problems on tech cameras (not that the OP asked about that)
The 40 is a much newer generation chip I would guess 5 years newer than the 39 (Steve is this right?)
I have compared the 40 with the 31 and it is much better (I own a 31) apparently the 40 has better dies making for better colours.
I think the Kodak KAF-40000 is about 4 years newer than the KAF-39000, but who's quibbling. ;)
The great pity is that while Hasselblad has the better sensor in the KAF-40000 (higher signal Q.E., lower readnoise, and in particular, 4-5 times lower darknoise), they are not fully exploiting it. Limiting the longest exposure to 256 seconds is a mistake (and why is it even necessary to have this limit?). If this sensor was in the hands of PhaseOne, their Xpose+ long exposure technology would make multi-hour exposures possible.
Great pity #2 is that PhaseOne, like Leaf and Sinar, now seem wedded to Dalsa; and I fear there won't ever be a KAF-40000 (or better) long-exposure capable MF sensor that I can put behind my Mamiya 645 glass.
From what I've seen and read, Pentax have delivered the ability to take clean, arbitrarily long exposures with the KAF-40000 in their 645D - well done Pentax! But M645 lenses can't be adapted to the P645 and still focus to infinity.
What's so great about Mamiya lenses? Can't I just switch platform to get the sensor I want? Well, I don't think it was mentioned in this thread, but for some shooters the big downside of the Hasselblad system is the limited range and speed of the lenses. There's no full-frame 645 fisheye, no f2.8 wideangles, no f2.8 APO teles, no lens longer than 300mm, no zoom beyond 110mm, no soft focus. Adaptable lenses are limited to Hasselblad V ones with leaf shutter; they are even slower than the H lenses, but they do at least extend the range to 500mm and 30mm (fisheye on 6x6). Pentax also falls short in the lens stakes, but much less so. Many ranges of lenses can be adapted to the Pentax, but even more can be adapted to the Mamiya (including, indeed, the Pentax ones!)
Right, mission accomplished - I've sent this thread into a "Who's going to give Mamiya users a 6-micron long exposure DB?" direction. 8)
Ray
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I can believe that a corporation could have that bad communication skills. The note borders the lack of respect for users.
This leave the user speculating about what is going on. The new group the owns hasselblad has not release a format letter of commitment. Looks like hassyusa.com is dead, and there is the new partnership with adobe (good by itself).
Maybe is really a patent dispute, or a cost optimizing measure or other. I don't know, but they need to improve the communication skills.
Best regards,
J. Duncan
+1. I'm sure they will..., nobody buys something to lose money... does he? Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
P.S. "Listen to the customers" has been to proved to be the only safe way for every company...
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I think the Kodak KAF-40000 is about 4 years newer than the KAF-39000, but who's quibbling. ;)
Thanks for the correction.
The great pity is that while Hasselblad has the better sensor in the KAF-40000 (higher signal Q.E., lower readnoise, and in particular, 4-5 times lower darknoise), they are not fully exploiting it. Limiting the longest exposure to 256 seconds is a mistake (and why is it even necessary to have this limit?).
I agree Hasselblad are very conservative in this area. Their mantra is "we will not enable ISO/ long exposure beyond point 'X' because it is not up to quality 'Y' " I have told them on several occasions that users would rather be the judge of what quality 'X' is..
Nick-T
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+1. I'm sure they will..., nobody buys something to lose money... does he? Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
P.S. "Listen to the customers" has been to proved to be the only safe way for every company...
My mentors have brought me to the front of the room when I have been willing to stand on my position as passionately as you Fotometria.
I pause to wonder, what is your purpose here? I hope it is to bring your collective experience, but perhaps I am the optimist. It is my personal duty to extend my mentors lessons to any who will listen.
If one previals to cast the solution to all that ails, then he must accept the responsibility of knowing the way and providing the solution. There will be roughly 500 families counting on your leadership skills - are you willing to accept that burden in your remedy? To have all the answers to all the questions that may arise?
Many hard working people are bringing their best effort to a set of tools that bring unprecedented opportunities for creative minds and hands; I personally know many of these people and their craftsmanship that brings the best to market (not just Hasselblad, but also PhaseOne, Alpa, Leaf, and Sinar.)
Please consider your comments carefully and not in haste; I believe you may feel differently if you knew the "Company" was not some imaginary callous team of raiders that your commentary suggests. The "Company" as the subject of your visceral challenges on a daily basis is comprised of people and creatives that you would most likely enjoy a cold beverage, talk of family, and debate topics of photography in a relaxed manner beyond the characters of the distant text in your posts.
If you feel that you have been wronged, then state it and be done with it.
Life is way too short to carry that much vinegar. Look to the bigger picture if happiness is a goal.
John
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John,
You're a virtuoso of the pen :)
I am very curious whether you are more of a journalist, a PR specialist or engineer. Anyway I am very impressed with your work.
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To answer the original post, I feel the H system offers far more options than the P45 combo, such as True Focus and the HTS, among other features. I like an integrated system, Hasselblad support has been there for me, including Steve when he was an H-man. I will also add that the H lens line up is superb. You can't go wrong. In fact, if you went with an H2 and a film back, as I did for a number of years, you'd be able to produce incredible results, trust me. Good luck.
Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz
www.jecxz.com
Do you have a company logo tattooed on your arm? ;D
Do you think, if a manufacturer batch "kindybal" to your camera it will mean that this camera will be better than another?
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Do you have a company logo tattooed on your arm? ;D
Do you think, if a manufacturer batch "kindybal" to your camera it will mean that this camera will be better than another?
Anyone else not know what a Kindybal is? ???
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My mentors have brought me to the front of the room when I have been willing to stand on my position as passionately as you Fotometria.
I pause to wonder, what is your purpose here? I hope it is to bring your collective experience, but perhaps I am the optimist. It is my personal duty to extend my mentors lessons to any who will listen.
If one previals to cast the solution to all that ails, then he must accept the responsibility of knowing the way and providing the solution. There will be roughly 500 families counting on your leadership skills - are you willing to accept that burden in your remedy? To have all the answers to all the questions that may arise?
Many hard working people are bringing their best effort to a set of tools that bring unprecedented opportunities for creative minds and hands; I personally know many of these people and their craftsmanship that brings the best to market (not just Hasselblad, but also PhaseOne, Alpa, Leaf, and Sinar.)
Please consider your comments carefully and not in haste; I believe you may feel differently if you knew the "Company" was not some imaginary callous team of raiders that your commentary suggests. The "Company" as the subject of your visceral challenges on a daily basis is comprised of people and creatives that you would most likely enjoy a cold beverage, talk of family, and debate topics of photography in a relaxed manner beyond the characters of the distant text in your posts.
If you feel that you have been wronged, then state it and be done with it.
Life is way too short to carry that much vinegar. Look to the bigger picture if happiness is a goal.
John
I feel that I've been misunderstood by you, I love Hass, I really do! Its among "myths" of photography and is justified to be so..., there is nobody that wouldn't recognize its contribution to photography. My opinion on "closed systems" is not against Hass, it would still be my opinion about "closed systems" if Sinar would do the same or Mamyia or anybody else and IS MY OPINION.... It is clearly stated and my everyday communication with others shows that the majority shares it! Its good that we now know that its been heard up to decision makers of Hass... its still their investment and responsibility against the shareholders, customers and reputation! Careful... I'm not saying I'm right in my opinion (and others) about closed systems, I'm only saying is my opinion and I don't feel I would apologize to anybody for having one! There is certainly no vinegar justified on this conversation and no empathy either I assure you. Thanks for paying attention..., Regards, Theodoros. www.fotometria.gr
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Anyone else not know what a Kindybal is? ???
It's good point David ::)
This is what I meant.
After all, the camera that does not have certain functions is not necessarily worse. In particular, when these functions are completely unnecessary. But I know it always looks better.
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It's good point David ::)
This is what I meant.
After all, the camera that does not have certain functions is not necessarily worse. In particular, when these functions are completely unnecessary. But I know it always looks better.
I don't believe Derek pointed out any unnecessary functions.
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Regarding the discontinuation of the HTS adaptor in the US, the reason is due to a patent infringement suit. The patent in question is US # 5,592,331 (http://www.wikipatents.com/US-Patent-5592331/optical-adapter-for-controlling-the-angle-of-the-plane-of-focus).
Michael
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I don't believe Derek pointed out any unnecessary functions.
I allow myself to think differently :)
OP stated that he is not interested in using the Technical Camera.So HTS 1.5 it probably will not be needed. Ture Focus - I dare to doubt whether it is a necessary function. Nice but not necessary. Manufacturer support - well, you tell me that you have something that distinguished you from others in this regard? Also, I doubt. Derek mentioned something about a great lens - if you claim that the new LS glasses are much worse? Is that the camera is integrated means that it is better? (You can take pictures better), I know what I mean this integration, also know its advantages and disadvantages. But this is not a function that determines that this camera is better. For one it is unquestionable advantage for another big drawback. It's my 2 cents.
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Another reason why you'd want to select the H4D is the larger LCD on the H back and the single battery source - when you're out and about you just have to carry one extra battery - a feature that I like. I also really like the color from Hasselblad and Phocus. Above all of the nonsense on this thread, focus on the photograph, that's what matters most.
Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz
www.jecxz.com
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Above all of the nonsense on this thread, focus on the photograph, that's what matters most.
Amen! Both systems will allow you to take great shots. The greatest limitation is likely to be the photographer.
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Another reason why you'd want to select the H4D is the larger LCD on the H back and the single battery source - when you're out and about you just have to carry one extra battery - a feature that I like. I also really like the color from Hasselblad and Phocus. Above all of the nonsense on this thread, focus on the photograph, that's what matters most.
Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz
www.jecxz.com
And here we finally agree. Let's focus on photography.
Derek, I understand that you got the camera and now you have to praise the Hasselblad. But with all due respect to your person and your photos: the display and battery decides that this camera is better? I practically do not use the display. For me, it could not be display on the camera. Let's focus on photography!
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Perhaps we could focus on yours?
Care to share?
You're sweet :)
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Regarding the discontinuation of the HTS adaptor in the US, the reason is due to a patent infringement suit. The patent in question is US # 5,592,331 (http://www.wikipatents.com/US-Patent-5592331/optical-adapter-for-controlling-the-angle-of-the-plane-of-focus).
Michael
Thanks Michael for the information.
I am mesmerized for three reasons:
1. The patent is very old. It's and odd time for a law suit, unless the patent changed hands recently.
2. Can't understand why Hasselblad did not told user so.
3. This is more for David: Does support continues?
Best regards,
James