Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Ray on August 15, 2011, 03:01:24 am
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I'm posting this, not because of a quibble about prices, but because of an outrage about prices.
My printer is the Epson 7600 that takes 30 metre rolls of paper 601mm wide (or 24"x100ft).
I haven't used it for a while. I've been building a new house and the printer has languished in my separate studio. I give it a head clean now and again, hoping this prevents any problems.
I'm now ready to start using the printer again, but need some paper. I was previously using Enhanced Matte, but wish to try Premium Glossy again, which means a change of black cartridge.
The last time I bought a roll of paper was quite some time ago. The supplier has relocated to a more distant place, so I thought I'd buy over the internet at the best price.
Wow! I just can't believe the vast differences in price. Have I stumbled upon a case of serious anti-competitive practices?
The best price for a roll of Epson Premium Glossy is around $95 with free shipping. That's a great price. Unfortunately such prices are from American companies that don't ship overseas. If they do ship overseas, it's only to nearby countries such as Canada or Peurto Rico.
I never realised that Epson roll papers were manufactured in America. Is this really the case?
I did find one American company that was prepared to ship the product to Australia, but the freight costs were significantly greater than the cost of the product, making the final price on a par with the Australian price which is about 3x the American price.
What the f**k's going on?
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It's my understanding that Epson doesn't make any of their papers. They job this out to many other companies. True of their canvas also.
Have you tried any other brands of paper. If you are looking for Premium glossy, there are many other papers out there, Moab, Breathing color, Lexjet, (all make a great RC based glossy paper) You could also look for Canon's glossy or luster, as I recall it's sold by another name overseas. You might try either DTGWeb or Lexjet both out of Florida to see if they ship to Australia. $95.00 for a 100' roll of PGPP250W is about right in the US, it tends to run from 95.00 to 110.00 depending on your agreement with supplier.
Paul Caldwell
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If you resides in Australia; try to contact "Farmer" / Phil Brown.
I think he knows everything about Epson and papers in Aus.
/Sven
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I'm happy to say that this problem does not exist for my Epson 3800. All paper rolls of any size for the 3800 by all manufacturers have exactly the same price in all countries. ;D
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It's my understanding that Epson doesn't make any of their papers. They job this out to many other companies. True of their canvas also.
Have you tried any other brands of paper. If you are looking for Premium glossy, there are many other papers out there, Moab, Breathing color, Lexjet, (all make a great RC based glossy paper) You could also look for Canon's glossy or luster, as I recall it's sold by another name overseas. You might try either DTGWeb or Lexjet both out of Florida to see if they ship to Australia. $95.00 for a 100' roll of PGPP250W is about right in the US, it tends to run from 95.00 to 110.00 depending on your agreement with supplier.
Paul Caldwell
I've got a system that works well with my current profiles in relation to Epson papers for the 7600. I don't want the hassle of creating new profiles for different papers.
If Epson roll papers are 1/3rd the price in America they are in Australia, that implies to me that the papers are manufactured in America. If they are not, and manufactured in Asia which is closer to Australia than America, then there would seem to be some serious and corrupt anti-competitive practices going on, in the absense of any other reasonable explanations.
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Relax Ray. I am surprised this is news to you. its the same for electronics, cars, or raw materials like wood, etc.
USA is easily the biggest single advanced consumer market in the world, with a very refined set of internet retailers who sell and ship stuff very cheaply and efficiently, without middle men or extra taxes. Europe does not have that, Aus/NZ neither, and is a tiny market in comparison. Yes it is a little unfair that a paper made in Germany is cheaper in USA than in Germany, but that's the way the world works. Economies of scale, geography, and all that.
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As far as I know the best prices in Australia for branded and tested products is http://gicleemedia.com.au/index.html
Known as Giclee Media Supplies. Their base is in Melbourne but they have interstate reps. The staff and owner are very knowledgeable, reliable and friendly. Call +61 3 8682-9587
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As far as I know the best prices in Australia for branded and tested products is http://gicleemedia.com.au/index.html
Known as Giclee Media Supplies. Their base is in Melbourne but they have interstate reps. The staff and owner are very knowledgeable, reliable and friendly. Call +61 3 8682-9587
Thanks for the advice. Checking that website I see that Epson Premium Glossy Rolls (24'x100ft) are $198 without freight. That's significantly cheaper than the Epson recommended retail price in Australia. However, In America these same rolls are around $90 including freight.
In this international economy of competitive pricing I can see no reason for this huge discrepancy, other than anti-competitive price fixing.
If the paper is manufactured in America, I can see a reason for a slightly higher price in Australia because of freight charges. If the paper is manufactured in Asia, Korea, Thailand, Japan or China, there's no good reason why it should be significantly more expensive in Australia. Especially in view of the fact that Australia is one of the few sensible countries that allows any overseas purchases up to $1,000 to be free of tax.
There's something rotten going on here.
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As snowygst said: relax. Others have included some reasons for the disparity. Also, US prices exclude taxes, I don't know what the practice is in Australia but you probably include taxes when quoting prices. Cost of doing business in Australia is probably higher than in the US, so Epson and retailers require higher margins down under (just like here in Europe).
Even if the papers are manufactured in Asia, shipping costs for Epson are negligible (a few dollars) since they ship by sea in massive container ships where things are weighed by the ton. Shipping costs for you are very different, because you are getting a very heavy package couriered to you.
Finally, the fact that if you import it yourself the prices are the same as buying locally should give you a hint why prices are so different.
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As snowygst said: relax. Others have included some reasons for the disparity. Also, US prices exclude taxes, I don't know what the practice is in Australia but you probably include taxes when quoting prices. Cost of doing business in Australia is probably higher than in the US, so Epson and retailers require higher margins down under (just like here in Europe).
Even if the papers are manufactured in Asia, shipping costs for Epson are negligible (a few dollars) since they ship by sea in massive container ships where things are weighed by the ton. Shipping costs for you are very different, because you are getting a very heavy package couriered to you.
Finally, the fact that if you import it yourself the prices are the same as buying locally should give you a hint why prices are so different.
I understand perfectly there are often disparities in prices due to different taxes that may apply in diffrerent countries. Some countries may apply a customs duty in addition to a hefty GST of 17% or more, plus administration costs.
I recall once being amazed, when in the UK, a postman knocked on the door to ask for a payment of cutoms duty, GST and other charges, before handing over the DVD I'd ordered from Canada on the internet.
I'm thankful in Australia it is not considered worth the trouble and expense of collecting the relatively small amount of 10% GST, and sometimes maybe an additional small cutoms duty of 5%, when the goods plus freight, imported for personal use, amount to less than $1,000.
This makes internet shopping so worthwhile, but the 'bricks & mortar' retailers are not too happy about it and I believe there is pressure on the Government to reduce this limit. The limit used to be $500.
Having checked the tariff for imported photographic paper, it seems that there's either no customs duty or it's a minimal 5%. Refer to attached jpeg.
I could therefore understand why a roll of paper in Australia, which includes a 10% GST and maybe a 5% customs duty, might be 20% more expensive than the same product in America at a price which doesn't include any taxes.
I can understand that certain products in America may be cheaper because of the significantly larger market and issues of economy of scale, so I would expect another 20% or 30% increase in the Australian price, BUT 300% INCREASE!! Bloody hell! There's something seriously wrong here.
After some searching, I did find a supplier in America who was prepared to ship a 24"x100ft roll of Premium Glossy to Australia. Their price was around $90 plus $223 freight (presumably by air) making the total price, delivered to my door, about the same as the Australian RRP.
However, one shouldn't have to pay the recommended retail price for any product if one is prepared to hunt for the best price. I've found a supplier in Australia who will sell that roll (the heavier 250gms paper) for the bargain price of $245, excluding freight which will probably add another $30 or so.
How does that compare with the best American price? $84.95 at B&H including free shipping in the USA, compared with $275 in Australia, including shipping.
Notice the slight difference? ;D
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How does the supply and demand for a roll of printer paper compare between the USA and Australia? I think that this would have a lot to do with the cost.
Besides, I really don't think that you would want the government to start regulating how much items should be sold for. Complaining will not do a lot to change the situation except make you more angry and frustrated. I understand your frustration though. But, that is the world that we live in. We always think that we should make more money at what we do to earn money, and that we should be able to buy more for less. But, we can not have it both ways. The only realistic solutions that I can think of to make you happier are: 1. Purchase the rolls in a large enough quantity to bring the price per roll down to a palatable amount. 2. Move to where the paper is cheaper.
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Thanks for the vote of confidence, Sven, but I find in these discussions that it's usually pointless to get into the economics of why prices differ in different markets - even more so when someone (sorry, Ray) starts talking about conspiracies and the like.
/shrug Companies sell at the market price. How do you know it's the market price? That's what the market is willing to pay. If the market price is too low to be profitable, they stop selling. If it's too high, people stop buying. There's a range in which it's acceptable as a compromise between the two positions.
The cost of operating a business varies far beyond just the cost of taxes and shipping and such. Cost of wages, linked to cost of living (Sydney just rated the 7th highest cost in the world, ahead of London and NYC for instance - interestingly Oslo being the highest) and representing a very large portion of the national population obviously has an impact on the cost of doing business, provising support, holding stock for purchase on demand and so on.
Changes in exchange rates are yet to flow through in some products which had prices set up to a year ago (longer in some cases). Also, the general belief that the AUD has strengthed dramatically fails to take into account currencies other than the USD. So for companies bringing in stock from other locations (Japan, Europe, etc), the exchange benefits are far less than the public impression based on the AUD/USD rate which reflects a weakening USD (low domestic interest rates, poor economic peformance, quantative easing, etc, etc).
These are just some of the factors - it would take many pages to do a full and proper analysis of the differences.
Of course everyone wants to find the best pricing. No argument. But do you want supply on demand with local support or not? If not, that's fine - it's not a wrong choice, it's just a choice.
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I'm not sure which is more amazing and puzzling, the fact that Epson roll paper is 3x the price in Australia as it is in America, or the fact that most posters in this thread think there's nothing unusual here and that such a situation it's quite acceptable.
We now have a global economy with internet purchases playing an increasing role in competitive pricing, a situation which benefits the consumer significantly.
There are certain countries that impose huge tariffs on certain imported items in order to protect their own struggling industries that manufacture competing products. Australia used to be like that many years ago, but no longer.
I can think of no good reason for such an excessively high price. If I were in the business of selling photographic accessories and consumables, I'd be very interested in the fact that I could make a 200% gross profit in Australia on 30 metre rolls of Epson Premium Glossy, and still sell below the recommended retail price.
If B&H can sell a roll for $85, including freight within America, that suggests the wholesale price is less than $85. How much less is speculation, but it's difficult to see how B&H could make a profit if the wholesale price were more than $60. 3x60=$180 according to my maths, well below the price of $245 I've just paid.
In Australia we have laws relating to anti-competitive practices, price fixing and collusion. I'm not asserting that's what's happening here, but it sure makes me wonder, in the absence of a rational reason for the huge price discrepancy.
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I'm not sure which is more amazing and puzzling, the fact that Epson roll paper is 3x the price in Australia as it is in America, or the fact that most posters in this thread think there's nothing unusual here and that such a situation it's quite acceptable.
I guess my question is are you just venting here, or do you really think someone on this forum has the answers or the ability to solve this problem for you?
Epson runs a separate business entity in each country, and somewhere along the line it is either costing them a lot more to get the product to Australia or they are just wanting to make more money.
This is an issue with 1)Epson Australia 2) Australian government (either because they are charging tariffs you are unaware or because there might be price fixing that needs addressed or 3) or Epson Australia distributors for price gouging/fixing ... or maybe it just costs epson a lot more money to get a roll of paper to you in Australia because of many factors - despite it seeming illogical.
Good luck ...
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If I were in the business of selling photographic accessories and consumables, I'd be very interested in the fact that I could make a 200% gross profit in Australia on 30 metre rolls of Epson Premium Glossy, and still sell below the recommended retail price.
Nobody's stopping you. You'll make a killing with that 200% gross margin you're seeing, and you'll be driving a Porsche in no time. Keep us posted!
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Nobody's stopping you. You'll make a killing with that 200% gross margin you're seeing, and you'll be driving a Porsche in no time. Keep us posted!
The implication is that somebody is stopping me. Business people are always looking for ways to make a quid, just as the astute shopper is always looking for a bargain or a better price.
As far as I can determine, these papers are made in China. There would probably be a minimum quantity the factory would ship, if they are free to ship to anyone, and that minimum quantity would be greater than I would ever use. There should be no reason why shipping to America should be more expensive than shipping to Australia. In fact, Australia is closer to China than America.
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What makes you think they are made in China?
As many, including myself, have said, there's more to it than shipping costs.
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Forget China for the big brands. The biggest producer of inkjet papers in the world is Mitsubishi, and many branded products come from them. Their main production facilities are in Germany and Japan. There's one paper filter factory in China, but all Mitsubishi inkjet papers are made in Japan, Mexico and Germany. You can bet the Mexican plant is to service the US market and thus reduce transport costs.
They produce more than 50 inkjet media types, Pictorico for one, with a full private label service.
The economics of international trade are so complex that simplistic comparisons that this thread is getting will never reveal the full story. If prices annoy you, then do your best to get the lowest you can and then, within your own market, you will be competitive. That's the best you can do.
But with no Mitsubishi plant near Australia you can see why it's small market has to pay more.
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As far as I can determine, these papers are made in China. There would probably be a minimum quantity the factory would ship, if they are free to ship to anyone, and that minimum quantity would be greater than I would ever use. There should be no reason why shipping to America should be more expensive than shipping to Australia. In fact, Australia is closer to China than America.
This is pointless. As I mentioned, shipping is a negligible part of Epson America's cost of goods sold, regardless if it's coming from China or North Carolina. I guarantee that the higher prices are driven by higher cost of doing business in Australia, taxes and duties, and supply and demand. Every single factor is out of your hands, unless you are willing to spend a lot of time and money lobbying, or in courts.
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This is pointless. As I mentioned, shipping is a negligible part of Epson America's cost of goods sold, regardless if it's coming from China or North Carolina. I guarantee that the higher prices are driven by higher cost of doing business in Australia, taxes and duties, and supply and demand. Every single factor is out of your hands, unless you are willing to spend a lot of time and money lobbying, or in courts.
If shipping is a negligible cost, and I agree with you on that point, except in the case of airfeighting of the heavy rolls, then your other points make no sense. There is no significant duty or tax on photographic paper in Australia. There's only a 10% GST and a possible 5% customs duty.
I can think of no sound economic or business reason why a non-fragile, robust item like a roll of paper weighing 5 or 10Kgs, that is not likely to need repair under warranty or require the setting up of an extensive network of service agents, should cost so much more in Australia than it does elswhere.
The fact that, after several attempts to buy such rolls of paper from overseas companies like Amazon or B&H in America and the UK, I am advised that shipping to Australia is not allowed or not available, makes me suspicious of some sort of collusion going on.
Wouldn't you say that's a reasonable deduction?
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If shipping is a negligible cost, and I agree with you on that point, except in the case of airfeighting of the heavy rolls, then your other points make no sense.
Sure it does. Once again, Epson gets their paper shipped by sea by the containerload, you get one roll couriered by air. Huge difference in cost. Do the math on shipping 500 A4 pages in one package vs. individual registered letters and you'll get an idea of the magnitude.
I can think of no sound economic or business reason why a non-fragile, robust item like a roll of paper weighing 5 or 10Kgs, that is not likely to need repair under warranty or require the setting up of an extensive network of service agents, should cost so much more in Australia than it does elswhere.
Then you have very limited understanding of international business.
The fact that, after several attempts to buy such rolls of paper from overseas companies like Amazon or B&H in America and the UK, I am advised that shipping to Australia is not allowed or not available, makes me suspicious of some sort of collusion going on.
Collusion implies unlawful behavior. I'm not familiar with Australian law, but in Europe it is quite common for a certain distributor to have the right to sell a product to only one country, or a set of countries, while another distributor serves another set of countries. It could be that Epson has sold exclusive distribution in Australia to company X, which is not B&H or Amazon. Many American companies don't ship Blurays to Europe, for example.
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There are support costs for media. You can call a dealer or the manufacturer and ask for information, help with profiles, driver settings, stock QA, asssitance with selection of appropriate media, pretty much order any of the available sizes on demand as it's all held in stock for you so on and so forth. Of course, these compaines (the dealers and the vendors) don't just sell media. They have other costs. Those costs are spread among the various products and services that they sell. They will choose a business model that is profitable (which means one acceptable to the market, among other things).
They are senstive to feedback - if the market isn't buying, they either change their price, their delivery or their product (they might also engage in discounts, advertising and so on). If the market is buying, they are less likely to make changes.
The entire world is not the same. It costs different amounts to conduct business in different countries. If, for example, the advantages of the US market were spread across the rest of the markets to bring the prices down, it's possible that the profitability of the US operation might decline and require higher prices to sustain it. This may make it unprofitable in that market and thereby remove the capacity to support other operations in the first place.
This is just one of literally dozens of examples and reasons why pricing varies. Numerous others have been provided by a number of people. Ultimately, though, everyone agrees that if you don't think it's good value then don't buy it and tell the vendor why.
Or, do you really think that every vendor and dealer selling media in Australia are all working together? Canon, HP, Epson, Canson, Hahnemühle, Innova etc, etc all working together to conspire against the Australian market?
Let me ask you - how much do you sell a print for? What percentage of that price is the media? If someone in the US can deliver a print of equal quality and similar subject for a signicantly lower price are you price gouging? No you're not - because price gouging is where you take unreasonable advantage of a shortage of supply due to unusual circumstances (say a natural disaster) to charge a price significantly inflated above the normal price in THAT market.
If you can deliver a lower price to the US than a US vendor but the freight costs so much as to negate that advantage, is that your fault? Of couorse not.
If you supply through a reseller rather than direct and you have a deal with one in Australia and one in the US and you tell them not to ship to the other region because you already have an appointed distributor, are you doing anything other than normal business management of a distribution channel? Is there some law that says you must sell to everyone and anyone anywhere in the world directly? Certainly not.
Again, Sven, this is why I usually don't join in :-)
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It's not only paper that is the problem, Apple has been asked to explain their pricing in Australia. The full Sydney Morning Herald article is here (http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/aussie-apple-boss-comes-out-of-the-shadows-to-confront-ripoff-claims-20110819-1j17p.html).
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It's not only paper that is the problem, Apple has been asked to explain their pricing in Australia. The full Sydney Morning Herald article is here (http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/aussie-apple-boss-comes-out-of-the-shadows-to-confront-ripoff-claims-20110819-1j17p.html).
You think you have it bad? Try Europe or Brazil (http://gizmodo.com/5444888/the-price-of-apple-macbook-pros-around-the-world). Similar patterns can be seen in the prices of most other hi-tech products.
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Sure it does. Once again, Epson gets their paper shipped by sea by the containerload, you get one roll couriered by air. Huge difference in cost. Do the math on shipping 500 A4 pages in one package vs. individual registered letters and you'll get an idea of the magnitude.
Don't be silly! ;D Do you think I'm mad? Why would I complain about the price of a 10Kg item that had been air-freighted across half the globe? Everyone knows that airfreighting heavy items is expensive.
Is it not reasonable to assume that the manufacturer of Epson rolls of wide-format paper delivers such paper to Epson Australia, whether from Japan, China or Europe, by surface freight, ie ship and road?
These items have a reasonably long shelf life, you know! Around 100 years, from reports I've read.
It could be that Epson has sold exclusive distribution in Australia to company X, which is not B&H or Amazon. Many American companies don't ship Blurays to Europe, for example
Epson Australia is a company formed in 1983. Their head office is in Sydney. They provide their own on-line shopping service, but also sell printers (and other Epson hardware) and photographic paper to other retailers in Australia who are usually able to undercut the Epson RRP to such a significant degree that the price, in respect of wide-format rolls of paper, is only 3x the American price.
But don't worry on my behalf. Now that I'm aware of this huge price discrepancy, the next time I'm overseas in Singapore or Thailand perhaps, I shall investigate the price of such heavy rolls of paper over there, and if I find some good prices that even approach the prices of B&H in America, I shall have a few rolls freighted back home by surface mail, to last me a few years. Problem solved! ;D
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One final comment from me: There are US businesses that will buy on your behalf and take delivery for you. They then seek the cheapest way to get it to you, and money can be saved. Do this and all the angst about people refusing to send to wherever goes away. At that point your beef is only with freight or postal services.
If you order six or a dozen rolls the delivery fee won't be six or twelve times a single roll, so bulk ordering helps too. You could form a buying group in your country, many do, and bring in wholesale quantities. If you live in Oz they'll only tack 10% on at the inward point. There are freight services which will sell you space in a less-than-full shipping container for significant quantities.
So, please, give it a rest and think outside the square and realize that whatever you do, it's going to cost more to do business in some countries, and as others have said, the smaller the market, the more it costs.
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One final comment from me: There are US businesses that will buy on your behalf and take delivery for you. They then seek the cheapest way to get it to you, and money can be saved. Do this and all the angst about people refusing to send to wherever goes away. At that point your beef is only with freight or postal services.
If you order six or a dozen rolls the delivery fee won't be six or twelve times a single roll, so bulk ordering helps too. You could form a buying group in your country, many do, and bring in wholesale quantities. If you live in Oz they'll only tack 10% on at the inward point. There are freight services which will sell you space in a less-than-full shipping container for significant quantities.
So, please, give it a rest and think outside the square and realize that whatever you do, it's going to cost more to do business in some countries, and as others have said, the smaller the market, the more it costs.
My only concern here is efficiency, a fair go and prosperity for the consumer. We all have some appreciation of the economies of scale. Even in the Supermarket, we expect a 1Kg bag of sugar to be more expensive than half the price of a 2Kg bag of sugar.
A roll of paper that is 50% more expensive than it is in America might not seem unusual. But 3x the price is absurd. Anyone who thinks that is acceptable must be either stark, raving bonkers, or have so much money that prices of ordinary things don't matter.
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Again, Sven, this is why I usually don't join in :-)
Phil,
I'm so sorry ;D
/Sven
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The first thing you learn in Business Training is the fact about market size.
If I buy 500 rolls I'll get, say, 30% off. (US)
If i buy 5 rolls I'll get 3%. (AUS) (EU) et al
/Sven
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The first thing you learn in Business Training is the fact about market size.
If I buy 500 rolls I'll get, say, 30% off. (US)
If i buy 5 rolls I'll get 3%. (AUS) (EU) et al
/Sven
You don't even need business training to understand that. Every shopper in the supermarket can see the principle of 'quantity discount' being applied.
My concern here is not that an item is 30% more expensive in a country with a smaller market, but 200% more expensive. Got it?
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Hi Ray
I've only just come across this thread. Around the same time as your original post I was having the exact same problem with Epson inks. I eventually imported from the States at less than half the discounted Australian prices. And that after B&H had informed me that they are not permitted to export Epson products to Australia.
However, back to paper. I use Epson Premium Lustre in A2 sheet size. A 25 off box of these costs less than AUD50 in the States, cost me around AUD 80 in South Africa (which I thought a rip off), but now I am expected to pay about AUD 200 in Australia! However, I see a similar problem with at least one other make of quality printing paper.
So my question, did you finally find an Australian supplier who could sell you an equivalent paper at a reasonable price?
regards - Peter
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For how much do you sell an A2 print?
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So my question, did you finally find an Australian supplier who could sell you an equivalent paper at a reasonable price?
regards - Peter
Hi Peter,
I've just noticed your question. The last roll of Epson paper I bought was over a year ago, shortly after I started this thread. The total price I paid for a 24" x 100ft roll of Premium Glossy, including 10% tax (GST), and $30 freight within Australia, was A$277.75. That was the lowest price I could find.
The identical roll of paper (250gs) costs US$88 at B&H in the US, with free freight within the US. As you probably know, the Aussie dollar is about equal value to the US dollar. What a rip-off!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253388-REG/Epson_S041638_Premium_Glossy_Photo_Paper.html
Sorry! Not over a year ago. I'm exaggerating. Looking at the receipt, I see it was the 17th August 2011. ;D
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First, I'm not affiliated with these guys in any way, but for Oz people, gicleemedia.com.au/ are a great source of papers of many types, at very good prices.
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Thanks for the replies gents. I guess we have to grin and bear it. I'm now trying a Canson equivalent, which is only about 40% up on the B&H price.
regards - Peter
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Easy.
1) Move to the US or
2) Establish your own paper-importing company and make a killing
P.S. Unless, of course, it's a mob-controlled business, in which case they'll do the killing part... The hidden benefit of which would be to confirm your conspiracy theories.
P.P.S. It's funny how we all want to be capitalists when selling, but socialists when buying.
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P.P.S. It's funny how we all want to be capitalists when selling, but socialists when buying.
And assume full knowledge in the process :-)
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First, I'm not affiliated with these guys in any way, but for Oz people, gicleemedia.com.au/ are a great source of papers of many types, at very good prices.
I have an issue with their canvas rolls - going yellow, lumps and end of roll ridges. the last couple of rolls 17" premium canvas haven't been the best. wasted about 4 metres in total.
What is the most worrying is the yellowing. This issue I intend to take up with them.
I can't sell prints if the material is not archival.
rob
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I'm not interested in buying non-Epson papers for two main reasons. (1) the longevity is an unknown factor, as mentioned by Rob. (2) I'm still using the free Bill Atkinson profiles created for the Epson papers with the 9600 and 7600, which are quite satisfactory, and I don't wish to give myself the work and hassle of creating new profiles.
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I'm not interested in buying non-Epson papers for two main reasons. (1) the longevity is an unknown factor, as mentioned by Rob. (2) I'm still using the free Bill Atkinson profiles created for the Epson papers with the 9600 and 7600, which are quite satisfactory, and I don't wish to give myself the work and hassle of creating new profiles.
The Epson papers I use do not have problems and they garantee their papers archival.
Whereas Giclee just wash over the quality and with sending you another roll or credit as replacement. I mention this so others are aware of the problems.
rob