Luminous Landscape Forum

The Art of Photography => User Critiques => Topic started by: martin-images on July 09, 2011, 01:32:09 pm

Title: Groins
Post by: martin-images on July 09, 2011, 01:32:09 pm
ND grad, long daytime exposure

Martin

(http://martin-images.smugmug.com/Other/Coversion-competition-DMF/i-7Wc4526/0/O/Y8X3588-YIMAGES.jpg)
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on July 09, 2011, 02:09:30 pm
Given that you are not posting this in the Critique section, I will refrain from it, other than "Nice!"
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on July 09, 2011, 02:42:32 pm
Given that you are not posting this in the Critique section, I will refrain from it, other than "Nice!"
Ditto.
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: martin-images on July 09, 2011, 03:16:52 pm
Sorry I did not realize it was in the wrong section, perhaps a mod could move the post


Martin
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: Rob C on July 09, 2011, 04:40:41 pm
Well, I can see the 'legs', but groins? Not even with the longest stretch of.

Rob C
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: Chairman Bill on July 09, 2011, 05:03:38 pm
I think you'll find that the correct spelling is 'groynes'.
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: martin-images on July 09, 2011, 05:29:24 pm
It can be spelt two ways "groyne" or  "Groin" (United States)
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: framah on July 09, 2011, 05:32:49 pm
I was all excited to see the groins till I clicked here and ... just a bunch of pilings!! ;D

Really nice shot of the "pilings" tho!!
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: tom b on July 09, 2011, 05:42:52 pm
We now have locked groins in the initial post!

Cheers,
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: martin-images on July 09, 2011, 06:15:23 pm
I was all excited to see the groins till I clicked here and ... just a bunch of pilings!! ;D

Really nice shot of the "pilings" tho!!

Really funny  ???
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: martin-images on July 09, 2011, 06:16:03 pm
We now have locked groins in the initial post!

Cheers,

What are you talking about  ::)
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: tom b on July 09, 2011, 06:28:28 pm
Yep, pilings or piles (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/piling) not groynes/groins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groyne). It wouldn't have been plural (groins) in any case.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on July 09, 2011, 07:39:44 pm
 Well... now that the semantics and spelling police has had a field day :), perhaps it is the time to go back to the image?

The image is a well executed example of a rather well-know subject (piers/jetties protruding into milky waters), the staple of photographers like David Fokos. Nothing wrong with paying homage to the genre, and, as mentioned, this one is rather well done. There is a certain feeling that one gets by looking at it, and, at this point, I am at a loss to verbalize exactly what it is and why, but the image works for me. After all, there must be a reason the genre is so popular in fine art galleries. I also like the slightly warm tonality.

Having said that, there are things worth further experimenting with in post-processing. I find blocked shadows rather distracting, especially in the lower left corner. Overall contrast appears to be a bit higher than I would like to see, i.e., especially between the large highlight area on the right and the dark left and upper regions. There is one bright spot (a piece of wood?), placed horizontally on the first two piles, that is perhaps... well, too bright? Finally, it is worth considering if a slightly less elongated format is more suitable, say 8x10, as it would "tighten" the composition?

Title: Re: Groins
Post by: tom b on July 09, 2011, 07:59:04 pm
Finally, it is worth considering if a slightly less elongated format is more suitable, say 8x10, as it would "tighten" the composition?

A nice way of saying crop without actually saying it?

Police, I like to think of myself as a teacher. (Yes, I've had plenty of students who think the two words are synonyms.)

Cheers,

Title: Re: Groins
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on July 09, 2011, 08:10:13 pm
A nice way of saying crop without actually saying it?...

You mean I am tiptoeing as not to awaken our friend Russ?  :)
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: JohnBrew on July 09, 2011, 09:05:05 pm
Martin, sorry you are the butt of so many misconceptions. I posted a similar photo many years ago on the Leica forum and got the same responses  ::) I live at the beach and we have many similar groins to the one you photographed. These groins were apparantly an attempt to retain sand and stabilize the beach. Unfortunately, being made of mere wood they eventually succumbed to the natural effects of tides, storms and sand shift. However, they make for fascinating photo studies and I have carried out many. Anyway, a nice photo and good luck.
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: RSL on July 09, 2011, 09:50:55 pm
You mean I am tiptoeing as not to awaken our friend Russ?  :)

I'm wide awake, Slobodan, but in this case I'm with you all the way -- even to the crop. And, yes, I agree: it's a cliché, but a very well done one.
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: tom b on July 09, 2011, 10:40:07 pm
Cudos Slobodan, it's not too often that Russ agrees about you know what.

The picture is well done but it is a cliché so it was never going to be the object of much discussion.

The word groyne/groin however is new to me and I have learned something from this thread.

Don't take it to heart, we can be a hard audience to please/awaken.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: martin-images on July 10, 2011, 02:57:42 am
Thank you for your comments on "the photograph"

I do agree the white area of bleached wood could be distracting, and also the tighter crop would improve the strength of the image, the proof of any edited digital file is in its output on paper where the balance of tones can be seen in reality, this file prints extremely well through imageprint RIP, the depth of black and purity of the white give the image the contrast needed for mat paper


Martin
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: Erick Boileau on July 10, 2011, 03:43:43 am
a literature thread :-)

a good photo Martin
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: tom b on July 10, 2011, 11:41:34 pm
OK, I'm curious, I've just seen your three other posts. All of which very good and have been given their due applause. I'm just wondering why this was your first post?

Cheers,
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: stamper on July 11, 2011, 05:05:36 am
I like this kind of subject - despite the groin/groyne/groans - and I try it my self. However I think the piling on the left doesn't fit in well with the overall composition. Also the contrast is a little overdone. The difference between the dark areas on the left and the  brighter areas on the right are too extreme. Perhaps a day with less harsh lighting or less processing would help? :)
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on July 11, 2011, 08:34:44 am
And, yes, I agree: it's a cliché, but a very well done one.

Ah derivatives and clichés where would we be without them, the one I hate most is the silhouette of a single tree on the top of a hill - but lets not go down the everyone listing of our favourite/hated cliché shots, as this thread would get very long indeed, but what I would say here and by way of advice, is that I once heard someone say on a similar subject, that you should "fake it till you make it", which I assumed to mean work closely in the style of whoever's work interests you, but only until you get good enough to develop your own style.

Photobloke
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: martin-images on July 11, 2011, 01:39:51 pm
OK, I'm curious, I've just seen your three other posts. All of which very good and have been given their due applause. I'm just wondering why this was your first post?

Cheers,

No reason Tom,
It is not a first in terms of content, many shots like this are out there, but, I print all my own work and this one, in print, stands out so well, the reflection and luminance on the water looks so good on matt FAP paper, I just like it  :)

Thank you for looking and commenting

Martin
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: martin-images on July 11, 2011, 01:49:56 pm
I like this kind of subject - despite the groin/groyne/groans - and I try it my self. However I think the piling on the left doesn't fit in well with the overall composition. Also the contrast is a little overdone. The difference between the dark areas on the left and the  brighter areas on the right are too extreme. Perhaps a day with less harsh lighting or less processing would help? :)

I thank you for your comment, but IMHO you are so wrong in your assumption about the contrast, viewing here at such small sizes and on high contrast monitors does not give the right impression and an allowance for the difference between what you see here and what would be printed out must be given. Files have to reach a certain level of contrast to print well on FAP such as VFA, I print exclusively on matt papers, this image is edited to that level any lower and it could be termed as flat in print terms, this was not a low contrast scene.

 Martin
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: martin-images on July 11, 2011, 01:54:41 pm
Ah derivatives and clichés where would we be without them, the one I hate most is the silhouette of a single tree on the top of a hill - but lets not go down the everyone listing of our favourite/hated cliché shots, as this thread would get very long indeed, but what I would say here and by way of advice, is that I once heard someone say on a similar subject, that you should "fake it till you make it", which I assumed to mean work closely in the style of whoever's work interests you, but only until you get good enough to develop your own style.

Photobloke

I think you will find I have my own style, that to many is instantly recognizable by many, I do not copy any ones work, I might photograph the same subjects, however, my own vision is always put into the edit, I cannot do it any other way.

Thank you

Martin
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: RSL on July 11, 2011, 05:54:48 pm
Martin, A cliché isn't necessarily a copy of someone else's work. The people in this thread who have pointed out the problem all have seen probably at least a hundred shots of pilings leading into the sea. I know I have. I've seen better ones than yours (from my friend, Cole Thompson) and I've seen many, many that are a lot worse. As far as copying someone else's work is concerned, don't sweat it. I think it was Picasso who said: "Bad artists borrow; great artists steal." Yes, you've developed what's probably a recognizable style, though so far most of your posts have been a single tree in a barren setting. That's not a "style." It's repetition.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. The work of yours I've seen is excellent. I suspect we'd all like to see more of it. I know I would -- especially the kind of street work I just commented on in another thread. But if you post on User Critiques you usually can expect criticism that doesn't beat around the bush. You're good enough that that shouldn't bother you.
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: martin-images on July 12, 2011, 02:30:33 am
Martin, A cliché isn't necessarily a copy of someone else's work. The people in this thread who have pointed out the problem all have seen probably at least a hundred shots of pilings leading into the sea. I know I have. I've seen better ones than yours (from my friend, Cole Thompson) and I've seen many, many that are a lot worse. As far as copying someone else's work is concerned, don't sweat it. I think it was Picasso who said: "Bad artists borrow; great artists steal." Yes, you've developed what's probably a recognizable style, though so far most of your posts have been a single tree in a barren setting. That's not a "style." It's repetition.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. The work of yours I've seen is excellent. I suspect we'd all like to see more of it. I know I would -- especially the kind of street work I just commented on in another thread. But if you post on User Critiques you usually can expect criticism that doesn't beat around the bush. You're good enough that that shouldn't bother you.


Thanks RSL

I understand exactly what your saying, much appreciated

Martin
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: stamper on July 13, 2011, 04:30:03 am
I thank you for your comment, but IMHO you are so wrong in your assumption about the contrast, viewing here at such small sizes and on high contrast monitors does not give the right impression and an allowance for the difference between what you see here and what would be printed out must be given. Files have to reach a certain level of contrast to print well on FAP such as VFA, I print exclusively on matt papers, this image is edited to that level any lower and it could be termed as flat in print terms, this was not a low contrast scene.

 Martin

I and other members can only judge what we see on the screen and cannot judge the final print, unless you want to send me one. ;) I think you are a little over defensive about this? You asked for a critique and the response was good. Have you printed it yet and does the final print show a lower contrast? I think my point was a valid one but only an opinion and everyone sees it differently. :)
Title: Re: Groins
Post by: martin-images on July 13, 2011, 12:28:32 pm
I and other members can only judge what we see on the screen and cannot judge the final print, unless you want to send me one. ;) I think you are a little over defensive about this? You asked for a critique and the response was good. Have you printed it yet and does the final print show a lower contrast? I think my point was a valid one but only an opinion and everyone sees it differently. :)

Sorry do not mean it to sound like it does, yes I have it printed and framed , the contrast is spot on that's why I answered that way I did, no offence intended, if you would like to see a sample print contact me through my web site and I will send free of charge  :)

Martin