Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Motion & Video => Topic started by: fredjeang on May 25, 2011, 01:21:22 pm

Title: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on May 25, 2011, 01:21:22 pm
Hi,

I'm looking for a smaller sensor than the 5D2 for videos with the capability of using the PL mount for certain reasons. The GH2 came naturally in my list.

I've been evaluating the Canon 7D and the Pana GH2.

Well, my conclusion is that in video the Gh2 smokes the 7D without the shade of a doubt.

It's almost sure that I will purchase one or 2 of this tiny camera. It's prety impressive what Panasonic managed to acheive in such a little body.
I normally don't like those kind of devices, too small, miniaturized buttons, not one-button-one-function, plastic body, complicated menus etc...
But the efficiency of the beast compensate IMO largely, specially for the price, those details.

I will mostly use the GH2 with vintage cine lenses without any electronical contact to the body via an adaptor.

I do not have a lot of time now to read reviews but I read quickly the MR evaluations here, where his aclaration about the use with no conected lenses was very helpfull.

My question is aimed to the GH2 users and simple: what kind of downsides globaly can I expect with the GH2 ? (if there are some)
 
It's always nice to hear about users experience.

Thanks a lot.

  

 
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: deejjjaaaa on May 25, 2011, 02:03:02 pm


My question is aimed to the GH2 users and simple: what kind of downsides globaly can I expect with the GH2 ? (if there are some)
 
 

battery life, unless you use a rig w/ out of camera power.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on May 25, 2011, 10:36:57 pm
Great little stills camera with good video capability.

NB the order of my reply...
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: jfwfoto on June 03, 2011, 10:14:02 pm
Chris's video universe is quite large and experienced. I would be interested in having his response reframed within the DSLR universe since that is where many of us are and is the origin of the original post in the thread. Where does the GH-2 stand in the DSLR universe?
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Tim Gray on June 04, 2011, 08:20:16 am
I don't see battery life as a "risk". Perhaps an inconvenience but the behavior is consistent. The biggest problem Ive had is accidentally bumping settings when handling the camera. I'm getting better at glancing at the screen to make sure everything is ok but I don't have that kind of problem with my dslrs. I wouldn't classify this as a design issue necessarily, I think it's more the consequence of the form factor, which is a big reason I bought into the system. But I think something like the canon 'hold down one button to allow changes via other button' In their 1's models might go a long way to reduce settings accidents.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on June 04, 2011, 10:40:14 am
Yes, this is sometyhing that pisses me off too. In the end the price to pay for the format. I think it's worth.

To be honest, when I first read the enthousiasm of both Michael and Chris, I was not really convinced because I couldn't figure out how Panasonic did that in such reduced format.
I thought that they were sort of too enthusiastic under the drug of the novelty or had a sweet eye for Pana and very soon they would upload a disclaimer in Lu-La with all the long list of hassles they discovered.
No such thing happened.

Then, more and more infos with footage samples and the unanimity from experienced users, even among Red users etc...pointing that the video capabilities are above what Canon is currently producing made me reconsider my position.

Then, I checked over the internet about how the accessories market was, indeed excellent, as good if not better than Canon, and the hability to access PL mount etc...and more importantly, what those little cameras can produce in terms of imagery really ended to convinced me that Michael and Chris didn't exagerate their first impressions. It really seems that Panasonic did a serious advanced camera for low price.

Now it would be interesting to know after a while in used if this enthousiasm is still strong.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on June 04, 2011, 05:49:59 pm
Yes, still very strongly positive. The IQ is excellent as Michael showed repeatedly in his San Miguel de Allende photographs. The video quality is indeed excellent but as always with a stills camera, I believe this should be looked on as an important bonus but not the primary value of the camera.

My negatives are slight: poor speed on the 14-140. I would like a 2.8 or faster medium zoom which I believe will be forthcoming.
Awkward interface due mostly to the size; accidental button pushes are very common but I have hardly ever found a setting change due to this and a half press on the shutter release brings things back to the shooting mode. I would like a lock switch to freeze all settings but focus. Yep, that's called Manual Mode but I want to be able to disable all buttons once I am in a shoot-ready mode.

I love the 20mm pancake - a great walkabout lens/camera combo.

I love the DoF of the sensor size - very similar to 35 mm motion picture.

It's a great little camera!



Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on June 04, 2011, 05:57:25 pm
Thanks Chris.

Have you tried the camera with full manual lenses, without electronical contacts on the body? I saw a Michael's comment in Lu-La about that and he found a trick.

If anybody can comment on that with the Pana I'd be very thankfull.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Alex MacPherson on June 05, 2011, 12:04:15 am
I have a GH-1 that I use with manual Canon FD lenses. You need the proper adapter and then you go into
the menu and select "shoot without lens".

You are then free to use any manual lens you like.

If you are serious about shooting video and are prepared to buy 2 GH-2s ... I would consider spending
just a little more and get something that is purpose built for the job.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/731509-REG/Panasonic_AG_AF100_AG_AF100_Micro_Four_Thirds.html

http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/af100/

At $4700... it gives you the ability to use all the great lenses you want to use... with a lot less fuss. Less Frankenstein
and more Frank Capra  ;)

Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on June 05, 2011, 06:35:59 am
I have used the Voigtlander 25mm 0.95 Nokton (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/voigtlander_f095_25mm_micro_43_nocton.shtml) since I got the GH2. The handling is slow with manual focus and aperture but the results are excellent. The out-of-focus areas are beautifully smooth - almost creamy. For slower more contemplative photography and video, it is highly recommended.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Craig Murphy on June 14, 2011, 01:46:39 pm
This is kind of a must read over at Photo Cine News.   http://tiny.cc/t85ib
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Sareesh Sudhakaran on June 15, 2011, 11:42:56 pm
As an alternative to the HDSLR Camera+Rig, you can also try the Panny AF100 or the Sony FS100...The accessorizing costs of an HDSLR setup for professional use is the same as an entry-level prosumer video system. In fact, the running costs of the former in the long term tend to be more under regular use.

Also, the codec from any DSLR is not an accepted format by major networks. I consider them acceptable, but if you're thinking long-term, I would definitely recommend something that has an HD-SDI out, or at least a true 1080p HDMI signal so you can record on to a device such as a Nanoflash.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: bcooter on June 16, 2011, 11:05:35 am
I have the GH2 or one of the panasonics with the pancake lens.

It's a nice camera, shoots ok video, not the best at high iso.  It doesn't really focus very well, but it's ok, just not wow.

Yesterday I briefly compared it to the sony nex5 and the difference, other than build quality where sony always wins against virtually any camera, is the menu.

Comparing the menu of the nex vs. the panasonic is like comparing an ipod app to MS Dos.

The Panasonic has the most complicated menu I've ever worked.  In fact even if you work with it for days on end, you never really get the hang of it.

Between the menu and file transfer to a Mac, we just never use the camera, for anything, which is kind of a shame because it's an interesting little camera.

IMO

BC
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on June 16, 2011, 01:44:19 pm
...  In fact even if you work with it [the menu] for days on end, you never really get the hang of it.

Between the menu and file transfer to a Mac, we just never use the camera, for anything,...

I agree that the menu system is the most complicated I have ever seen or used - but like many complex things, once you have learned the small subset that is useful to you, it can work - but it is work...

As far as the file transfer, I would also agree. But this is more the fault of AVCHD than the GH2. I have exactly the same slowdown in workflow off the Panny AF100. Compared to Sony's ease of transfer for the XDCam files , AVCHD is a real time waster. Nonetheless I stand by my previous enthusiasm about the GH2. For its size and price there is nothing that comes close.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on June 16, 2011, 02:09:42 pm
I agree that the menu system is the most complicated I have ever seen or used - but like many complex things, once you have learned the small subset that is useful to you, it can work - but it is work...

As far as the file transfer, I would also agree. But this is more the fault of AVCHD than the GH2. I have exactly the same slowdown in workflow off the Panny AF100. Compared to Sony's ease of transfer for the XDCam files , AVCHD is a real time waster. Nonetheless I stand by my previous enthusiasm about the GH2. For its size and price there is nothing that comes close.

Oh yes! AVCHD...

From the very beginning of this codec I never ended to feel completly convinced for that reason. And editing in this format is just senseless, ocupates too much algorythms for nothing and the slow-down is noticiable. I always do off-line, thank god the procedure in Avid is not painfull at all to transcode all that mess.

Zacuto will release soon their 2011 video tests. http://www.zacuto.com/the-great-camera-shootout-2011 can't wait the video release.

edit: I didn't know the GH1 but it seems that the GH2 is a completly different animal than the 1. The GH1 didn't reach a great reputation in video while the GH2 seems to really impress almost everybody. Actually, some big prods have already used it to film in impossible angles. So, is the GH2 has to be considered as a major upgrade from the #1 way more powerfull in term of video results? Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Maybe the current wickness of this little beast is that there are no stocks. I'm trying to buy one here and just can't. If things are going this way it's gona be more difficult to find a 5D2 or a GH2 than an Alexa or en Epic! Tomorrow I think I know where to find the last unit available...let's see if there is luck.

A little fresh summer air for us men: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_PrT25o8Vs  thinking of Rob in Mallorca!
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on June 16, 2011, 03:39:37 pm
Fred - I must congratulate you on finding a brilliant way of getting Google to come up with favourable search results!

If you Google Flawness and override the silly correction to flawless, this thread come up number two after the Urban Dictionary :-/
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on June 16, 2011, 03:53:10 pm
I think I could ask Michael for a Red Epic gift for that!! :P




Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: bcooter on June 17, 2011, 04:40:00 am
I'm sorry but I can't get past the panasonic menu.   Even with work, it's so unintuitive that you need a laminated card glued to the side to know how to set it up each time.

I also hate the file format and having to try to get it into a mac.  We're used to converting everything to pro rezz, but the panasonic format is just a nightmare.

Now saying that when it works, it shoots a nice file and it's a small easy to use camera, but nobody in our studios wants to learn it and use it. 

Yesterday I was really excited to test and see the new sony NEX cameras.   They're very good and very bad.  No zoom for focus, no peaking, small phone plugs for sound and they just look like . . . video.

Maybe it's because they're in a 60i wrapper, but I kind of think it's just because Sony does good video and knows how to make motion imagery look like  . . . VIDEO.    I just don't like the look.

Today we shot a heavy scheduel with the RED and the 5d.  The 5d when it's on it's really on and almost equals the RED.  When it's off on skintones well, it's really off and like the RED it needs some kind of post processing color to get it right even before we go to dailies, much less to finish.

The RED is a monster, but it works well, if you have a lot of batteries, lots of cf cards and a strong stomach for post production.   Even with the RED Rocket it takes a while to correct and put out dailies and the footage out of the RED is nothing like the monitor.  It's like whatever you set for wb, tint, exposure just kind of goes out the window when you put it in cine-x. 

Right now, our issue is time.  With 5 videos to cut in the next two weeks and a month long project to shoot then cut, well, every step in the workflow chain is something nobody wants to face.

All I can say is video post production is time consuming and one thing ARRI did right was make a camera that shoots stright to proress 422.  That was smart.

Going to bed now.

IMO

BC

Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on June 17, 2011, 05:39:33 am
Right now, our issue is time.  With 5 videos to cut in the next two weeks and a month long project to shoot then cut, well, every step in the workflow chain is something nobody wants to face.

All I can say is video post production is time consuming and one thing ARRI did right was make a camera that shoots stright to proress 422.  That was smart.

Going to bed now.

IMO

BC



Indeed, the Arri PR 422 option was right. Also the camera has one button one function, wich is something I really like and built like a Panzer tank. Don't know about the red camera design itself because I only receive files and never shooted on it. It seems solid and well designed. Raw is a little bit of an adventure to be honest.  Since I switched Avid, things are much more simple and the CineX step is completly useless and the workflow with Red is really good. FCP needs an upgrade now, that's one of the prob. It's a software that wasn't designed for what we have now. Apple need to fix that without delay.

About the GH2, I've also heard a lot of complains about the menu complexity and I don't really like the little buttons. Too miniaturized for my taste. There should be a way to do pre-settings that avoid the mess but it's loosing a lot of time in the userbook. I'm a little bit frighten of the menu with the GH2, but I still think that it is worth what the camera is capable of.

The 5D2 in video is funny. I find that in stills the camera is without surprise, but in video it responds differently. Sometimes it is whao, other time it is beark. What I found, and I don't know if it is just luck or really more profund, is that the results in non-controled light are generally impressives and specially in lowlight. But the results in the plateau never ended to convinced me. With Kinos for ex I don't like it , or don't want to like it whatever the settings are.
On the other hand, I still think that it generally gives a plaisant skin tone right-out-the-box in most of the cases.

What really impressed me with the gh2 is how clean the images are and the almost lack of moire. and, and not less, the incredible amount of lenses, included PL that can be mounted on it.



Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on June 17, 2011, 10:25:29 am
... FCP needs an upgrade now, that's one of the prob. It's a software that wasn't designed for what we have now. Apple need to fix that without delay.

Next week? (http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-20071114-248/report-final-cut-pro-x-arriving-next-week/)
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on June 17, 2011, 01:26:49 pm
Next week? (http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-20071114-248/report-final-cut-pro-x-arriving-next-week/)

Oh That's insane! Cooter and you have what we call the luck of the winner, like Sebastian Vettel.

You waited and handled more than what was reasonably bearable with this FCP and now history will prooved that you did well. Is it what it's called alpha male elegance?
And now it's gona be ProRes streaming, Red absolute bla bla bla...
The only thing that's missing now is you guys saying you purchased a Smoke unit to go with the FCP, an Epic and here we are!  

Talking about luck...I got my GH2 today! 100 bucks bellow the current price brand new! just went back to the studio with it and write those lines. Happy.

Well, the first impression is that it's very plastic feeling, almost like a toy and pretty much unbalanced in my hand. I miss some height. Also, the plactic rub is garantee to be unfriendly in the hot temperatures we have here. The menu is indeed a complete mess. Buttons are horrible, the kind of stuff you never want to have to press unless you are interested in microscopy. I have 2 fingers that don't know where to go while handling (please no joke on this) and I'm about as tall as Prince (on that neither...). After a while in hand I started to get used of its wired handling but still miss weight and height. Otherwise it looks a very interesting camera and has something friendly discrete.

I know what to expect in video, very good quality, pl mount, M42, (and PL mount with mirrorless is a winner), I have some lenses that Couldn't go on a dslr because of the mirror, also there is the C mount, fun for a certain kind of look and only bearable on this camera system etc... and that's why I bought it, for video, although I would suggest the Luminous Landscape to launch a special edition called "how to set properlly your GH2" or "the hidden secrets of the GH2 menu" because learning a space-shuttle cockpit is a joke in comparaison.  I'm sure you would sell them like hot-dogs.

There must be straighforward settings but nothing is intuitive.

It looks a very complete and surely complex camera.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: tho_mas on June 17, 2011, 05:14:42 pm
I also don't like the menu of the GH2.
Then again I don't need it at all...
All main features have dedicated knobs (tiny knobs, but still) - aperture, exposure, ISO, WB.
You can also store additional features on the 3 "fn" buttons.
And finally there is the "quick menu".
So I only use the actual menu when I want to erase/reformat the cards or when I want to switch the film mode (say from 1080i to 24p)... but you need the latter rarely during a shoot; mostly you stay within the same mode for one production.

Re import: Avid can import the MTS files directly; no need to convert to QT through ClipWrap or NeoScene or so (though me personally I pefer to convert to QT through NeoScene first and then open the files via AMA in Avid).


Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on June 17, 2011, 06:40:26 pm
Oh That's insane!
Just remember that this is a VERSION ONE complete re-write of Final Cut and likely should not be trusted for any meaningful work until several months in. It looks like we will see new Thunderbolt hardware announced with FCP X on Tuesday, June 21st but it remains to be seen what existing pro peripheral hardware from AJA, BlackMagic & Matrox will be supported. New Mac Pros would be nice too...
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on June 18, 2011, 07:35:39 am
A little diclaimer.

Everything is about getting used of everything.

- Handling
True that the handling at first was IMO very wired and couldn't feel comfortable for awhile. that was my worst concern. But today it just became natural, like that, and have no more wired sensation about it.

- Menu
Same story. The first sensation is that it is not intuitive, in fact it is not. But let's face it, I had free time this morning, started to read the userbook and play with the menu and after
30min it has almost no secret. I agree with tho_mas, once setted the camera you almost do not need it any more and just forget about it.
The thing is that it is a very "complex" machine and if I found that the menu could have been better designed, it is not the mess of the first impression it gives.
In fact it's not the first camera I had wich menu is in the same league.

In the end, photography is not Saturn 5 engineering and the menu features are stuff that we are familiar with even when wiredly implemented.

Maybe just the kind of camera to look a little bit more in the (messy and uncomplete) userbook at first and that's it.

I like it more and more to be honest.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Alex MacPherson on June 18, 2011, 03:06:54 pm
The best part of the GH is the ability to use virtually any kind of lens.

I have a couple of Canon FD lenses that I have from my very first camera... the Canon AE-1.
It is nice to be able to use them again. They work fantastic for video!
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on June 18, 2011, 03:11:28 pm
The best part of the GH is the ability to use virtually any kind of lens.

I have a couple of Canon FD lenses that I have from my very first camera... the Canon AE-1.
It is nice to be able to use them again. They work fantastic for video!

I did it too!...yes, it's fantastic. I have M39, M42, some stepless aperture ring, fantastic vintage primes with lots of blades, and man, in video it grooves!

I have the feeling that my 5D2 is gona take dust and spider webs...
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on June 20, 2011, 11:29:41 am
...being a mirrorless camera, the shutter sound is a little crap and loud no?  :o
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on July 08, 2011, 11:02:09 am
I'm quite impressed for what I'm seeing considering the sensor's size to be honest.

A part from the building and the shutter sound wich give a toyish feeling, and the jpeg output from factory that I don't like, the still raw images are much better that I thought they will be.

I bought this camera for motion but I've been playing with it in stills and it really amazes me.
It reminds me very much the old 16MP 1D and I'm sure an editorial could be shooted with this tiny camera without anybody noticing anything wrong.
Actually, it would beat the old 1D at higher isos. How improved has the technology!

The EVF is also impressive and truly usable.

 

Next thursday I have a fashion shot at home and I'll try it to see the skin tones. I want to know what this beast is capable with models.

I'll do a blind test. I will shoot model portraits and trick the metadatas and send that to the studio as if it was an old Hasselblad back and wait to hear the reactions.
There is something I want to verify...

Quite impressive quality for the size anyway.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: eleanorbrown on July 08, 2011, 02:25:47 pm
Ha, now I feel better Chris....I have photographed most of my life in just about every format and many camera systems...film and digital.  My husband received the GH2 he ordered yesterday and my first reaction was total confusion at the menu choices and navigation.  I felt lost!  The most difficult setting options I've ever run into!!! Eleanor

I agree that the menu system is the most complicated I have ever seen or used - but like many complex things, once you have learned the small subset that is useful to you, it can work - but it is work...

As far as the file transfer, I would also agree. But this is more the fault of AVCHD than the GH2. I have exactly the same slowdown in workflow off the Panny AF100. Compared to Sony's ease of transfer for the XDCam files , AVCHD is a real time waster. Nonetheless I stand by my previous enthusiasm about the GH2. For its size and price there is nothing that comes close.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on July 08, 2011, 02:34:11 pm
Hi,

I guess your husband is able to sort that stuff out, and if not he has a bright person to ask. My view may be that the most important choice is to use "raw" and forget about the rest. But photography is not about settings but images! I'm very much interested in your opinion about the images as you have a broad experience, including high end equipment.

I'm right now playing around a with a Sony Alpha 55 SLT, I don't like many things about it but it's a decent picture taker.

Best regards
Erik

Ha, now I feel better Chris....I have photographed most of my life in just about every format and many camera systems...film and digital.  My husband received the GH2 he ordered yesterday and my first reaction was total confusion at the menu choices and navigation.  I felt lost!  The most difficult setting options I've ever run into!!! Eleanor

Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on July 09, 2011, 04:48:55 am
With the GH2, I'll take the oportunity to aplaude this website's accuracy and independance.

When I first read the enthousiasm (unusualy expressed this time) of MR's field reports, I honestly thought that he was sort of exagerating because of Panasonic.

But re-reading Michael Riechmann's articles after some days with the camera, I think that every line match actually with my first experiences with the camera.

In other words, the MR evaluations are indeed a reference (for me at least), specially taking into account that they are resumed to the important. Not 10 pages to read but
just short articles that cover the essential. A trustable journalistict approach and it feels good to be here.

My enthousiasm with the camera is growing day after day. After awhile with the fantastic EVF, I really can't understand why this solution is not generalised. In fact,
I never had to use the lcd even for menuing and never took away my eyes from the VF. Nothing really annoys me more than taking a shot or shots and then looking at the lcd screen.
It's liberating!!

I went this morning in my district with it doing street photography just to get familiar with its operation and it's the best and funiest small camera I ever had. I really love the Leica Ms for street but this little Pana
gave me similar sensations. Very photographic. Didn't expect that at all I must confess. I found very easy to get involved into the scene with it and nobody is noticing anything because you don't look pro.
Very responsive, fast, fun in use but serious.


File quality, not pushing above 800-1600, is excellent considering the sensor's size and I really can't make any difference between APS sensors.

There are cameras (like optics) that truly help the photographer in its art. I think that this GH2 belongs to that club without doubt.


ps in form of heresy: I read about this idea that the GH2 is a great Leica M backup. Indeed it is. But I asked myself the question and really can't decide if in fact it's not the M that would not be a great GH2 backup...ok, i'm sort of teasing but not completly. In fact, I'm planning to purchase another one or wait the GH3 release.

When I see the incredible technology that can produce big companies like Sony, Panasonic etc...I really think more and more about the relativity of things. I mean, apart from the sensor's sizes, there is a world in the technology used by classic manufacturers like Phase and Co and what the big companies are actually developing and producing. And as a camera is not only about sensors...it makes me think where all this industry is going.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: uaiomex on July 28, 2011, 11:00:56 pm
Fred: How's AF in video with this camera. I llke the video in my 5D but the lack of af and articulated screen makes it almost useless to me. Despite I don't like the shape and volume of the GH2 I'm considering it for personal and creative videos. Is it a good camera for time-lapse? I truly hate the idea of wearing my 5D2 cause it's my everyday professional workhorse. Comments?
TIA
Eduardo



When I see the incredible technology that can produce big companies like Sony, Panasonic etc...I really think more and more about the relativity of things. I mean, apart from the sensor's sizes, there is a world in the technology used by classic manufacturers like Phase and Co and what the big companies are actually developing and producing. And as a camera is not only about sensors...it makes me think where all this industry is going.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Skeptikal on July 29, 2011, 12:37:49 am
The new version of Ptool allows the GH1 and GH2 firmware to be user altered ..."hacked"...to allow very high bit-rates (hence vastly improved HD image quality). Also allows in camera selection of NTSC/PAL and several other useful features.

Panasonic's cynical dumbing-down of potential video quality can thus be easily circumvented.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on July 29, 2011, 05:49:58 am
Fred: How's AF in video with this camera. I llke the video in my 5D but the lack of af and articulated screen makes it almost useless to me. Despite I don't like the shape and volume of the GH2 I'm considering it for personal and creative videos. Is it a good camera for time-lapse? I truly hate the idea of wearing my 5D2 cause it's my everyday professional workhorse. Comments?
TIA
Eduardo


Hi Eduardo,

I have never worked so far with AF on it, only manual primes so I can't comment on that point.

My general sensation is very positive. I would preferably use this camera over the 5D2 and even the 7D for videos, for many reasons.
There is a simple fact that tells a lot about a camera: more I'm using it, more I want to use it.

I also had many concern about the size-shape. My first sensation in hand was: it feels cheap and the body's too small.
Curiously, after a few days, that feeling completly disappeared. Now it feels ok. The buttons placement are IMO superior to the 5D2 and I never experienced
what was my fear, to press wrong buttons because of this tiny design. It just right and I wish more dslrs would copy this design.

The mount is extremely versatile but, the essence of the camera is keep it small. I've been trying heavy cine lenses on it and it is weired. It gives the sensation that
the mount could break (of course it does not) because of the unbalanced size and weight. No, its nature has more to do with Leica M kind of lenses and not PL mount monsters.

Mounting Leica M 39mm screw, you can shoot with longuer focal handheld because the compacness of the lenses makes it possible while with the 5D2 it is impossible.
I would say that I'm trying to use the smallest possible lenses on it to keep this spirit.
On the other hand, manual following focus ia maybe more difficult because precisely of this companess. You gain on one side and loose on the other but all is a matter of practise with any equipment.

The EVF is really great. It's to the point that I have very little desire to use a traditional dslr anymore. Under very low light conditions, the EVF resolution falls apart to the point of not usable but I've experienced that 2 or 3 times
and it was almost in extreme low-light. No issue in 99% of the cases.
Make sure that the optical correction is spot-on and you're done. It is that good that it completly change the way shooting motion. It's like a Leica M of motion. Really. Instead of using the LCD screen,
I'm using the EVF like if it was a street camera, so I got my eyes constantly on it and as the design is really good my fingers are falling naturaly where they should and I control everything without having to look.
The EVF is so accurate that I keep my eyes at about 2cm from the viewfinder and not glued on it.
The lcd screen on the opposite is not great and lacks resolution.

I've brought it in a still session just to see. I've used it with a non-professional model, a friend of us (I was with another photographer) who wanted to experience to be in a model skin for awhile. I've posted some pics of a raw right-out-the-box in another section.
The girl played the game and after awhile she started to get it. So as the GH2. No it's not a 5D2 but considering the sensor's size it is damn good and we wouldn't have dreamed about that just a few years ago, Pana did a very good job.

My bigger surprise was to see that I had much more focussed picture that I would normally have working without AF in any dslr or MF. In other words, the manual focussing with this camera is really accurate and possible, but it's more critical to settle properly the viewfinder to your eyes. Some users may experienced the opposite. Now again...if you MF with pana AF lenses you won't get the accuracy you have with a proper manual prime like a Leica or Zeiss. Those modern lenses are too unprecise for manual focussing and their feeling in hand in crap and cheap.

With the radio trigger, there is just a little issue, is that if you want to use it as a receiver, the micro jack is not to the standard wich oblige to look for an adapter. Annoying but I don't care because I rarely use as a receiver.
But it drives me to your other question: if you want to do timelapse, make sure you get the right cable!
There is a possibility to shoot 4K at 40ftps, great, but no. Because you are limited on the time, it works for a second. Too bad but despite its limited use it can add something to a sport footage for ex.

Video quality is very good. It does not have the Canon's moiré and really I would choose this camera over the 5D2 without the shade of a doubt. And I'm not the only one! It actually happens.

The only problem is that on set it does not look pro! But you can add all the robocop circus to look like Georges Lucas. But with this camera, I'm not tempted because again, it's the Leica M of motion and it would be too bad
to add weight and so on.
On that, the spirit is to use ND screw filters. I don't like them but using a matte-box seems to me the opposite of the spirit. So I ended not using anything wich obliges me to take care a lot about the external natural light and adapt rather
than choose. If no option I would use a matte-box.

The HDMI connection is not ideal, but understandable because of the camera size. This HDMI and micro silly jack is keeping some gaffer with you and stick the cables because indeed that's not reliable.

I've been comparing while editing in Avid, footage from the GH2 and the 5D2 and each time the quality of the GH2 appeared to me superior, and other people I've been asked their opinions felt the same.

Anyway, probably the best purchase I've ever done since the 5D2. And really, if the still was a little bit higher, I would have sold today the Canon's. (and I'm still asking myself if I shouldn't). It's that good IMO.

For 700 euros the best bang-for-the-buck!!








Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on July 29, 2011, 06:09:34 am
The new version of Ptool allows the GH1 and GH2 firmware to be user altered ..."hacked"...to allow very high bit-rates (hence vastly improved HD image quality). Also allows in camera selection of NTSC/PAL and several other useful features.

Panasonic's cynical dumbing-down of potential video quality can thus be easily circumvented.

Could you please developp a little more on that. How safe is the Hacked?
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Skeptikal on July 29, 2011, 07:53:19 am
Could you please developp a little more on that. How safe is the Hacked?

It is very safe...if done correctly. It follows the same procedure as updating a new official firmware release from Panasonic.

A bit of preliminary reading is necessary to understand the parameters that can be user altered within Ptool. The original firmware can easily be reinstalled if/when necessary. The improvement in video quality is stunning (I do underwater documentary  production for HDTV using several hacked GH1's)...well worth the effort.

Have a look at:

http://www.gh1-hack.info/wiki/PToolSoftware

and discussion on DVX forums (and elsewhere).
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: tho_mas on July 29, 2011, 10:39:02 am
How safe is the Hacked?
time will tell :-)

In any case it's easy to install and it is also easy to revert to the original firmware.
In 24p mode you can achieve very high Mbit rates (40, 60 and even more) with stable settings (see "extreme settings" below).
Stable 1080i settings are harder to achieve. I've tested 32Mbits / GOP 6 (real outcome is 34Mbits) in 1080i/50 and it seems to run stable (even shooting high detailed scenes with lot's of motion. Also seems to work fine on long clips... though I did not record longer clips than 18 minutes).

The improvement is really remarkable.

see here:
stable settings: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/482/avchd-stable-settings
extreme settings: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/483/avchd-extreme-settings
thread about GOP settings: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/421/official-low-gop-topic
samples: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/426/gh2-stalin-samples-topic/p1


how to ...:
http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/414/ptool-3.61d-topic?Sort=date
http://pixelphile.blogspot.com/2011/06/gh1-how-to-hack-guide.html

Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: fredjeang on July 29, 2011, 11:10:40 am
Thanks. But I've read in DVXusers that there are issues with sound. Although I record externaly, I don't always use the clapperboard so GH2 sound is usefull for candids.

Any info on that issues with the sound?
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: uaiomex on July 29, 2011, 11:54:40 am
Thank you much Fred. Great tips and very helpful opinions.
Eduardo
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: tho_mas on July 29, 2011, 04:28:03 pm
I've read in DVXusers that there are issues with sound.
AFIAK there are only issues with sound when you alter the audio settings. When you leave the audio settings as they are everything works fine. And even if you alter the audio settings this will only affect the audio playback on the camera - the audio in the actual file is fine (up to 448Kbps). At least that's what I've read so far.
Title: Re: GH2, any flawness?
Post by: Bern Caughey on August 02, 2011, 02:49:41 pm
I was never a fan of the GH1, even with the hack, & much prefer the GH2. I may look into hacking the GH2, but only if it's more stable then it's predecessor, & even then, probably not.

I don't blame Panasonic for not allowing higher bit rates. First this is not part of the AVCHD specs, & more importantly, they need their cameras to be stable, & perform, under all conditions.

The GH2 is a great compliment to the AF100, as they share lenses, & cut together well, but I mostly use it for 16:9 B-Roll stills, or whenever a larger videocam would be inappropriate.

Some of GH2's downsides are lower bitrates at 720/60 then 1080/24, & lower dynamic range then the AF100. The small from factor can be great for walkabouts, or sneaky-cam, but the lack of mass can also lead to shaky footage, & I'm not confident handholding lens longer than 25mm ("Normal") unless they're capable of Image Stabilization. Of course a shoulder rig could be attached to avoid the shakes, but at that point I'd rather use the AF100.