Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => User Critiques => Topic started by: Dale Villeponteaux on March 28, 2011, 08:08:09 am
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With trepidation.
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Hi Dale
That is a very nice picture, the only problem I see is a technical one and the moment I mention it you will kick yourself! The horizon is not level. The picture tilts quite seriously from right to left.
Anyway, it should be easy to rectify!
I will leave it to the experts to make keener observations.
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I like the vertically layered zones of different aspects of the same light. It is interesting to me that my gaze settles comfortably on the shore and horizon though the sharper geese seem to think they are the stars.
Bruce
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I love it! Very nice, although I think it would be better if the bright band of reflected sky at the bottom were cropped out.
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Hi Dale
That is a very nice picture, the only problem I see is a technical one and the moment I mention it you will kick yourself! The horizon is not level. The picture tilts quite seriously from right to left.
And when I saw this, I immediately surmised that it was not taken straight-on(and therefore producing the sacred level horizon), but probably from left up river. If that is true, it seems to me that the horizon is just as it should be.
I agree with Peter that the bright bottom band of reflected sky could be reduced.
Otherwise, a pleasant picture.
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The acid test is the telephone pole in the background. It should be vertical no matter what lateral angle the picture was shot from. Based on the pole, CS5 tells me the picture needs a 1.34 degree rotation clockwise, hardly enough to worry about.
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Thank you for looking. The far shore is made by an elevated road that runs from near left to far right, thus the perspective make the shoreline look tilted.
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The acid test is the telephone pole in the background. It should be vertical no matter what lateral angle the picture was shot from. Based on the pole, CS5 tells me the picture needs a 1.34 degree rotation clockwise, hardly enough to worry about.
Russ, you should see some of the poles we have around here. You really wouldn't want to use them to establish where vertical should be . . .
;) John
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If the only comment you have to make is about the horizon, stay away from the keyboard!
Cheers,
I presume that comment was directed at me?
If you are going to use your keyboard, can I suggest going the "whole hog" and explaining your comment. After all, how will we ever learn anything here, which, I would guess, is part of the deal?
I look forward to hearing your theory on when a level horizon is a good idea and when it is not.
By the way, when a river tilts as much as this one is, it becomes a waterfall. When a dam tilts that much, it becomes empty!
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The acid test is the telephone pole in the background. It should be vertical no matter what lateral angle the picture was shot from. Based on the pole, CS5 tells me the picture needs a 1.34 degree rotation clockwise, hardly enough to worry about.
So... cropping is a sin, but leveling an horizon is acceptable? Sorry but, you lost me with this one!
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i like a tighter shot of this frame - makes it moodier, with less distraction from the light, IMHO. Try framing so that the bright sky is not visible in the background or the water - ie top just above the road guard and btm edge just above the tree line in the water. Then the frame has a flow to the upper right as well.. just a suggestion.
Nice capture !
Frank
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How about reflections in still water toward the middle of the frame lined with what they are reflecting? Poles might be vertical, but here they are little short. Careful work may add a few decimal points to RSL's figure. He will, however, still be right that it matters little. I continue to like my idea that the most interesting part of the photo is a little out of focus. Sharpen it up and the controversy may die down, though I doubt it.
Bruce
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Russ, you should see some of the poles we have around here. You really wouldn't want to use them to establish where vertical should be . . .
;) John
John, I wasn't making a statement about the general verticality of the world's telephone poles. What I said is that this telephone pole should be vertical in the picture. It's obviously properly set and it hasn't been hit by Tom and his soccer balls, so one can conclude that it's pretty close to vertical. Believe me, Cornwall isn't the only place where telephone poles are off kilter. You should see northern Michigan.
Edu, When did I say cropping is a sin? What I said, and say, is that failing to try to get the picture right on the viewfinder is a sin. Since I frequently shoot fast I frequently have to correct the horizon. That's not the same thing as cropping around to see if you can find a picture in the amorphous mass of tones you shot at random.
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Edu, When did I say cropping is a sin? What I said, and say, is that failing to try to get the picture right on the viewfinder is a sin. Since I frequently shoot fast I frequently have to correct the horizon. That's not the same thing as cropping around to see if you can find a picture in the amorphous mass of tones you shot at random.
Ah, Russ, now I can agree with you. Completely and 100%.
John
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I use a simple rule of thumb for finding verticals in images with reflections: no matter how crooked or tilted a tree or pole is, just connect the same spot above the water with its reflection. In this case, I came up with a tilt of around 1.7 degrees and the following result:
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How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Can anyone think of a way to count them? Does it matter whether or not the pin is exactly vertical? Do the angels fall off if the pin isn't vertical? These are all profound questions, just like the other one we've been discussing. Oh, and by the way, are angels on the head of a pin as lovely as two ducks on a foggy pond?
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How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Can anyone think of a way to count them? Does it matter whether or not the pin is exactly vertical? Do the angels fall off if the pin isn't vertical? These are all profound questions, just like the other one we've been discussing. Oh, and by the way, are angels on the head of a pin as lovely as two ducks on a foggy pond?
Russ, I can clearly see now that your second love is poetry. ;) :D
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... Once again if the only comment that you have to make is that the 'horizon is not straight stay away from the keyboard...
There are certainly fine images where tilted horizon does not matter at all. But there are many more where even slightly tilted horizon creates the uneasy feeling that something is just not right, thus distracting viewer's attention. This picture, otherwise fine in the atmosphere department, is one of them. Pointing it out is thus helpful, even if nothing else is said.
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There are certainly fine images where tilted horizon does not matter at all. But there are many more where even slightly tilted horizon creates the uneasy feeling that something is just not right, thus distracting viewer's attention. This picture, otherwise fine in the atmosphere department, is one of them. Pointing it out is thus helpful, even if nothing else is said.
Slobodan, thank you.
Your edit immediately dealt with the "uneasy feeling" the picture gave me - most notably at the bottom where the tops of the trees are (now) level.
I find it amazing that Tom can tell someone who is trying to participate on this board in a helpful way to "keep away from the keyboard" , yet it is quite OK for him to "take to the keyboard" with a totally unhelpful and unnecessary comment.
Some opinions carry a lot more weight here than others, and I value yours!
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W, you are taking this far too personally, I haven't even mentioned a name. You just have to google "step away from the' to realise its common usage. It's a gentle reminder to people to stop doing annoying things like a commuter with a mobile/cell phone saying 'I'm on the train'. Saying the horizon is not straight is one of those comments, it is just plain annoying.
So Step away from… meant more in line with the Dilbert comic here:
http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2010-05-04/
Where did the line 'Step away from the…' come from, was it Seinfeld?
Cheers,
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Unfortunately, I've run into a power pole due to some runaway soccer balls, so I have to second the opinion.
The bank of a river/lake must be horizontal, sorry I doubt it, otherwise how does the water flow, or do all lakes have straight sides?
Cheers,
[/q
I don't understand this. What have the banks got to do with anything? It's the slope of the bed that counts, and only over a great section of the river that feeds it and then empties it; otherwise you are just negotiating pools.
Also, the earlier post was correct: imaging shooting the location of a bend... of course it won't look 'flat' or horizontal or parallel to anything.
I'm grumpy today. I went out to lunch as usual at 1pm. Except that it was 2pm. I did notice the computer clock had changed, so having had a series of small problems with it lately, I 'corrected' it. I'm told the changes happened on Saturday, so have I gained or lost three magical hours?
Rob C
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Rob, Relax. Chill out. It doesn't matter. Time is an illusion we've created for ourselves.
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Edu, When did I say cropping is a sin? What I said, and say, is that failing to try to get the picture right on the viewfinder is a sin. Since I frequently shoot fast I frequently have to correct the horizon. That's not the same thing as cropping around to see if you can find a picture in the amorphous mass of tones you shot at random.
Then I had misunderstood your point of view, sorry; I completely agree with you now.
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I'm posting a consensus version below, including both horizon straightening and cropping the light band at the bottom. I think, in the end, that both changes improve the picture. I had convinced myself that the band at the bottom echoed the wake of the Canada geese and added a sense of movement. Posting on this board can add a reality to check to all the circular ruminations in an isolated mind. Thank you all for your comments and especially to Slobodan for his useful tip. It seems an obvious technique once having seen it, but in 3 years of using Photoshop, it never occurred to me.
One more comment, it's almost April and I just realized I have no idea where my W2 form is.
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Dale
You have now fixed everything which I didn't like about your version #1. As you say, working in isolation can be a real problem, especially if you don't have close friends or family who are also sound critics. That is where a Forum such as this can be a huge help (or just confuse you . . . ).
John
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"Posting on this board can add a reality to check to all the circular ruminations in an isolated mind. Thank you all for your comments and especially to Slobodan for his useful tip. It seems an obvious technique once having seen it..."
Posting here is a reality check for my writing as well as how I see. Slobodan's comments may have done no more than confirm what I knew about reflections, but they suggest larger changes in how I might write about them. My posting of the same idea four steps ahead of him seems to have done no one any good. Is it the importance of being earnest as much as being clear and simple? Or do my previous follies make me unlikely to be heard at all?
Bruce
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Yes, well it was rather the way you said it, Bruce. I don't think anyone could understand it ;)
Not to worry . . .
John
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Rob, Relax. Chill out. It doesn't matter. Time is an illusion we've created for ourselves.
You mean, like, along with all the other ones?
Even my musos seem they may be an illusion: their last couple of gigs have clashed with other events that occupy the minds of many of the local expats who constitute the majority of the bar customers. There was no announcement of the next date at the end of the last gig... Apart from that, they are their own worst enemies, a symptom I recognize only too well: they turn up their noses at what seems to make the patrons dance in favour of what blows their own egos; fine if for fun, fatal if for money.
Ah for a local Chuck Berry or Jerry Lee!
Rob C
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Just like the statement 'get out of here' in modern day language doesn't mean go away, 'Step away from the …' doesn't stop doing something, it is more of a punchline as in the Dilbert comic. I know humour can be misunderstood, so if anyone was offended by my comments I apologise, the comments have been removed to avoid confusion.
Cheers,
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Just like the statement 'get out of here' in modern day language doesn't mean go away, 'Step away from the …' doesn't stop doing something, it is more of a punchline as in the Dilbert comic. I know humour can be misunderstood, so if anyone was offended by my comments I apologise, the comments have been removed to avoid confusion.
Cheers,
Hi Tom
Yes, I did take it personally and responded as I saw fit. I have never responded well to people telling me to do something without giving me a bloody good reason.
I could not work out why, making what I thought was a constructive observation, you appeared to be offended by it. I offered my opinion in what I thought was a friendly manner to someone who introduced the picture "with trepidation". I figure that if I am going to ask people here to take the time to look at my pictures, then the least I can do is reciprocate - and that too requires practice. (I suppose that may require a certain amount of patience from the "older hands".)
Thank you for clearing things up, and I too, apologise for my response.
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The acid test is the telephone pole in the background. It should be vertical no matter what lateral angle the picture was shot from. Based on the pole, CS5 tells me the picture needs a 1.34 degree rotation clockwise, hardly enough to worry about.
Our poles around here are all higgeldy pickedly ... the trees are generally a better indicationbecause generally they grow upright unless they too have started to succumb to gravity.
Julie
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Our poles around here are all higgeldy pickedly ... the trees are generally a better indicationbecause generally they grow upright unless they too have started to succumb to gravity.
Julie
In the U.S. Northeast I don't think I have ever seen an upright pole. 5 to 20 degrees off vertical seems to be the norm.
Eric