Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: nilo on January 28, 2011, 08:09:40 am
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An unusual question for this forum:
For an exhibition I am looking for a paper which does not have to be archival! It does not matter, if it is or not. What does matter, is the overall impression: It should have the maximum possible impact. They´ll be color portraits 16x20 and 50x70 with or without glass, coated or uncoated, only impact counts.
I was thinking of Exhibition Fiber (Tradition Photo Paper), but there must be better papers out there. I am thinking of something like Canson Infinity Photo HighGloss Premium RC Paper (315 gsm), but I never tried it. Has anyone here used it? Maybe you have some other suggestions.
kind regards
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Before I got to the last paragraph I was going to suggest Epson Exhibition Fiber and/or HFA Fine Art Baryta.
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I'm working with 3 papers right now that all have some of the largest color gamuts I've tested...
* Epson Exhibition Fiber
* Ilford Gold Fiber Silk
* Canson Infinity Baryta Photographique
As far as "impact", the Ilford and Canson paper have the best paper white L* (97-98) while the Exhibition Fiber has a slightly better Dmax (L* 3-4). In terms of actual "dynamic range", the Ilford and Canson papers have the slight edge owing to their higher paper white L*....but they're all pretty damn close.
Both the Ilford and Canson are relatively neutral with a very minimal about of OBAs/FWAs while the Exhibition Fiber is quite blue and has a fair amount of FWAs.
Terry
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You should look for Largest Gamut Volume for a certain printer/paper combo.
But there are different ways how to define that (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=44772.0).
Maybe Pictorico Pro Hi-Gloss White Film or Ilford Smooth High Gloss Media. Probably not in the sizes you want.
And the Canson you mention is a killer, when talking about Dmax. It's the peak on Dane Creeks list with 2.46
/Sven
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I was going to suggest something like the High Gloss White from Pictorico as well (just off the top of my head, no numbers to back that up), but if it's impact you're after you may want to look at the metallic paper options out there now as well. Maybe not as dynamic range as other papers, but the metallic look is definitely eye-catching when used with the right images.
Reviews at http://www.danecreekfolios.com/blog/2010/7/9/metallic-inkjet-paper-review-part-2-proofline-photo-chrome-a.html.
Neil
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While in New York this past summer I checked out papers at B and H. The sample photos printed on various Canson papers included a bird printed on a paper, that to my eye, stood out from the rest. The Canson paper was the one you mention.
Another alternative might be a luster paper. I am very interested in images with bold colors that in a way are almost primitive. Check out Pete Turner images to see what I mean. According to a few on line interviews, at one point, he was using Epsion Premium Luster paper.
http://www.peteturner.com/
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Pro/FocalPoints/Story/EmpoweredbyColor.do?BV_UseBVCookie=yes
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How about a dye printer with Pictorico Pro High Gloss White Film?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=pictorico+pro+hi-gloss&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
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Just a quick answer..Before you go and buy samples.. You need to understand what papers come in 60" rolls and also what printer you are printing on..
Why look at material that doesnt fit the bill.. Canson doesnt have 60" material..and your question said a 50x70 print..
Cheers
Jim Doyle
www.shadesofpaper.com ;)
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Canson doesnt have 60" material..and your question said a 50x70 print..
Oh thanks for that one! I completely forgot to check that. I have to check my options! Ilford does do 60" I guess...
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Ilford Silk comes in 50"
Hahnemuhle Fine Art & Photo Rag Baryta 60"
Epson Exhibition Fiber 64"
Innova Ultrasmooth Gloss,Warmtone & Semimatte 60"
Many Luster,Gloss,semi gloss & Matte
what printer.. Epson 11990 thats a 64" machine or Canon 9100 Thats a 60"
If using some other machine there may be an otion as well
Cheers
Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com :o
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epson 3880 and 9900
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epson 3880 and 9900
But you was talking about 50x70 prints ???
/Sven
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But you was talking about 50x70 prints ???
/Sven
You are right, sorry, for the bigger ones, I give them to friend with a 11880. But, while I'm at it, I would like to get it for all combinations. The x880s should produce quite similar results, right?
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I just tried some LexJet Sunset Photo Metallic on my Canon 8300, using LexJet's profiles. All I can say is WOW! I just printed some HDR's of some Italian vineyards I took during the harvest several months ago. The colors sure do pop.
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What kind of light source will be used to show the prints? If you are using the "right" light a glossy paper could also be used. If the light in the ambient where you are going to show the prints is not uniform a glossy, luster and also a baryta paper could not be the right solution.
Do you belive me if I say to you that the paper the had the "wow" effect in my last display was the Hahnemuhle Bamboo paper (a matte paper)? The ambient was not very well illuminated and the light source where some lamps "shoot against the prints". There where also some big prints made with FA Baryta and GlossBaryta (by Harman) but looking at them was not a nice experience because of all the reflections.
Of coruse if you have the possibility to controll and check the light an high-gamut high-gloss paper could be a nice solution. It also depends on who you want to impress...
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I assume you're talking about printing on an inkjet printer, but if you don't find something with suitable impact, consider a LightJet or Chromira print on Fuji Crystal Archive Super Glossy. A mirror-like finish and higher color saturation than anything made for inkjet printing.
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I assume you're talking about printing on an inkjet printer, but if you don't find something with suitable impact, consider a LightJet or Chromira print on Fuji Crystal Archive Super Glossy. A mirror-like finish and higher color saturation than anything made for inkjet printing.
Then you haven't seen any inkjet prints the last couple of years.
Both Epson Canon and HP produce prints on certain papers, with saturation which you never can achieve with the RA4 process.
Epson 9900/Harman Gloss to the left and LightJet to the right
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However, let's not forget that pigment ink on glossy papers doesn't look very good. Though the one print I have from a Canon 6350 is good, but no dye ink comparison
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Nino's quest was for a paper with maximum impact-not exactly quantifiable in laboratory measurements. Do your numbers for the LightJet come from the Super Glossy finish? You don't make that clear. While I'm not generally a fan of LightJet printing, I'll give credit where credit is due. I print on Harman glossy paper myself and refer it, generally, but it's semi-glossy finish has nowhere near the impact that the Super Glossy Fuji material has, so if 'impact' is the primary consideration, I still suggest that as an alternative Nino should consider if there is no requirement to stick with an inkjet print.
Then you haven't seen any inkjet prints the last couple of years.
Both Epson Canon and HP produce prints on certain papers, with saturation which you never can achieve with the RA4 process.
Epson 9900/Harman Gloss to the left and LightJet to the right
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No, there is no limitation to ink jet. Obviously, "high impact" is subjective, but everybody seems to get what is meant, namely high dMax, gamut ...
I did consider the traditional Fuji solutions (As I would have to use and pay someone else's 11880 machine for the 50x70 prints, it would also be, in my particular situation, substantially cheaper to go the Fuji-Crystal-Archive-Super-Glossy way). The prints, as far as I can tell, do not compete anymore with the best of ink-jet printing, but maybe I'm wrong and somebody can show figures.
Regarding dye ink, I don't remember having seen a large format dye ink photo print.
regards
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Nino's quest was for a paper with maximum impact-not exactly quantifiable in laboratory measurements. Do your numbers for the LightJet come from the Super Glossy finish? You don't make that clear.
I was talking about highest possible saturation, not "highest impact".
A Diasec or facemounted print (inkjet or RA4) is what I call an "impact".
The measurement comes from Fuji Crystal Archive Glossy, but according the LightJet printmaker, the saturation is equal to
Super Glossy.
/Sven
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Opps I Meant 11880 .. Sorry.. :-[
Cheers
Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com
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How are you going to display these prints?
Given that your subject is portraits, is high gamut even relevant? (Colourful clothes, maybe?)
Not sure what you mean by 'high impact', but if you're showing bare prints (pinned, bulldog-clipped etc), Fuji Super Gloss on a Lightjet might fit the bill.
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Gloss and High-Gloss paper don't go with glass over it. Too much reflections between the glass and the paper. So no glass but framed is my option for the moment.
Yes, the portraits include vivid colors from clothes etc.
"High-Impact" agreed is maybe not the best choice of words, not very technical indeed, but it describes well, I think, what it is: Gamut, dMAx... the usual suspects.
Regarding the lighting, I will change the standard halogen bulbs against Solux 3600K.
kind regards
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For my own exhibition prints I have a strong preference for digital c-types over inkjet prints, but if you want to preserve vivid colours then inkjet is your best option.
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For my own exhibition prints I have a strong preference for digital c-types over inkjet prints, but if you want to preserve vivid colours then inkjet is your best option.
Would you mind to tell me why you prefer the c-prints. (I'm biased because, for me, in an "art art" gallery environment they sell better ;-)
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Would you mind to tell me why you prefer the c-prints. (I'm biased because, for me, in an "art art" gallery environment they sell better ;-)
Yes, there's that - the art buyer's preference. Also:
- the way they hang when just the top two corners are pinned to a wall
- the total absence of any gloss differential
- the size (72" wide Lightjet)
- the fact that they look and feel like photographs used to look and feel
I'm not bothered by gamut and dmax. digital c-types have plenty of both for my work.
I like inkjet prints too. I print my portfolios on Harman FB Gloss. For that purpose (bare 16"x20" prints) the Harman paper handles better than c-types (which would kink when handled).
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I will admit that I am not up on the latest and greatest inkjet technology, but if you are talking about impact, I have never seen a print that surpasses Fuji Supergloss. When it comes to labs, they are not all created equal and therefore the prints are not equal, regardless of the equipment. One of my local labs runs the same Chromira printers as Westcoast Imaging, but can't match output quality by a mile. Another local lab (Photo Craft) runs a Lightjet 430, which I have been told is somewhat inferior to a Chromira, and their print quality is the best of the three. A Lightjet or Chromira is inferior to a new inkjet in pretty much everything you can measure, but if you want huge prints that blow people away, they are tough to beat.
All that said, I am not familiar with the inkjet papers recommended above, but I'm not sure I would want to deal with a 50x70 print on Supergloss. That stuff is a little fragile and is hard to work with (it's basically like Cibachrome), but it is absolutely stunning.