Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Ellis Vener on January 24, 2011, 03:21:55 pm
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We are looking to use Canson Rag Photographique 310gsm paper for a project. If you have had positive or negative experience I would appreciate feedback. Will be printing with a Canon iPF6300 imagePROGRAF (12 color pigment) printer and we make our own profiles.
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I don't like matte papers, however for certain images it has to be and I find Canson Rag Photographique 310gsm to be the best matte paper that I have ever used. I have made many prints with this paper and am happy with all of them. There are so many papers out there and it's truly a personal choice, I was truly shocked that I liked this paper as much as I do. The colors are great and B&W is wonderful.
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Thanks! I'm not a matte paper fan either but my client liked it and the colors i nthe samples I've seen looked really good.
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I was doing an art reproduction (first time) and it had to be matte, I showed my client about 10 different matte papers with the image printed and it was a no-contest, she told me I wasted my time and money with the other papers that it was so obvious which one. There are people on this forum that have a lot more experience than I do and have tested probably 1000 papers, you might get a better recommendation. I believe Neile loves the Moab Somerset Museum Rag and he'll probably chime in, but I haven't used it yet. It might be even better; those other guys will know.
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The Moab Somerset Museum Rag was one of the papers we looked at but both the client and I liked the look and feel of the Canson more. I ordered a 50' x 24" roll from http://www.booksmartstudio and it should be here Wednesday. In the mean time I'll pick up an 8x11" box and start profiling tomorrow.
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A beautiful paper. Very neutral white and high brightness, being a non-oba cotton paper.
Smooth as a baby skin :)
Customers usually picks it among other papers, esp. for the pure and clean colors it prints.
/Sven
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I have been thinking of testing this sample pack. Is the one you are talking about included in it? Oops, forgot the link, sorry.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/687289-REG/Canson_Infinity_000_03445_Discovery_Pack_8_5_x.html
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I have been thinking of testing this sample pack. Is the one you are talking about included in it? Oops, forgot the link, sorry.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/687289-REG/Canson_Infinity_000_03445_Discovery_Pack_8_5_x.html
That sample pack includes everything except for the Canson Rag Photographique 310gsm, but some of those others are great papers which I use often.
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Thank you. I thought it was missing that one but I just wanted to be sure.
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Since you and I are exploring the same paper and use the same printer, I am interested in knowing how your profiles turn out and which profiling system you use- if you don't mind sharing the info. Thanks.
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@jonathanRussell: I have three profile building toolsets, two from X-rite: The ColorMunki, and Profile Maker Pro 5 used with an i1 Pro photospectrometer. Bill Atkinson's 1728 patch target is my standard when using PMP5; and the
DataColor Spyder 3 Print SR kit. Mostly I use the first two.
I first follow Scott Martin's advice and test procedure to kifind what is the ideal media selection for a paper/ink/pritner combination. See "Onsight Media Selection Image " at http://www.on-sight.com/downloads/
and I do a before and after check with the "Onsight Color Evaluation Image" from the same site.
My "getting serious about printing" workflow is very heavily based on the Fine Art Digital Workflow DVD set by John Paul Caponigro and Mac Holbert: http://www.johnpaulcaponigro.com/store/dvd-fine-art-workflow.php with large dollops of what I have learned from Katrin Eismann as well.
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The Canson Rag is a nice paper if you want a heavy, ultrasmooth matte paper with no OBA's that still has a really nice paper white. Gamut and DMax are not quite as good as Hahn Photo Rag using the Lucia EX inks, but pretty close. I prefer the very slight texture of Photo Rag, but if you want something really smooth I think it would be hard to go wrong with the Canson paper.
Another worth considering would be the Epson Hot Press but I haven't tried it yet.
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"Hahn Photo Rag" : One of my favorite papers and one of the ones I recommended and we looked at. Not sure if it is a non-OBA paper and i nthe end the Cason was the one we all agreed had the best overall characteristics for the project.
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A bit of a segue, but I was recently pointed towards the Canson brand for their dual-surface paper.
I am wondering about recommendations; a superior quality heavyweight dual paper with similar properties brightness/surface/dynamic range as the Canson?
I've been using the MOAB lasal 235gsm and am looking for a possible replacement, in this application longevity is irrelivant, I want a more 'commercial' aesthetic to the paper, as opposed to a creamy fine art toothy look.
It seems the 235gsm and textured finish is a limiter in dual surface.
DC
www.dermotcleary.com
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Rag Photographique is a really sharp matte paper and as mentioned earlier, it relatively neutral. I've had very good results with it. It's one of my standard papers.
I just picked up some Epson Hot Press Natural. I wanted a smooth paper that was a bit warmer than Rag Photographique for portrait prints. Looks promising so far.
I just measured the Lab values of both in case you're interested. . .
Canson Rag Photographique L* 97.3, a* 0.23, b* 1.04
Epson Hot Press Natural L* 96.5, a* 0.06, b* 2.61
Terry.
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"Hahn Photo Rag" : One of my favorite papers and one of the ones I recommended and we looked at. Not sure if it is a non-OBA paper and i nthe end the Cason was the one we all agreed had the best overall characteristics for the project.
Small amount of FBAs throughout coating and base to lift its color to neutral. Holds its paper white good though in Aardenburg testing.
met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla
New: Spectral plots of +230 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
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I recommend Canson Rag Photographique to all my clients who want a bright paper with no brightening agents. Very nearly as bright as Photo Rag and a smoother surface. My "go to" paper for images where a textured surface is not appropriate (in a matte finish.)
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Given all of these raves, I am certainly looking forward to working with it. Thanks everyone.
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CRP was developed to challenge HPR. I find it smoother with less of the repetitive machine like texture of HPR. Here, on an Epson 9900 we get about 10% better gamut and a slightly higher DMax on the Canson paper. It's not as smooth as some other papers such as Magnani and the old Lana but the coatings are far better. The coatings are the same or very similar to other Arjo- Wiggins papers. Personally I prefer the "presence" of the mould-made papers such as Arches Velin Museum Rag and most of our clients who used Hahnemuhle PR a few years ago have switched to Velin with about 30% to Rag Photographique. We have almost no call for gloss here but use some Museo Silver Rag. Hahnemuhle PR does have some optical brighteners but despite comments from Wilhelm preclude it's use for many clients including National Galleries and museums. Under gallery (non-UV) lighting CRP has a brighter white than HPR. Under domestic conditions , with daylight or non-filtered fluoros, HPR is slightly brighter.
Cheers,
Brian Gilkes PhD
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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The Canson Rag Photographique 310 is turning out to be quite a pleasing paper with the IPF6300 imagePROFGRAF. The best results are coming about using a profile made with the Xrite Colormunki and the printer and print driver set to Special 8. My single complaint is that being a matte paper the blacks don't "pop" as much as they would witha gloss paper. I am printing from Photoshop CS5 and using PixelGenius Photokit Sharpener 2
s Custom Sharpener set to dimensional sharpening and Output Sharpener set for matte paper.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread.
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I used to be a fan of Hahnemuhle Photo rag until I noticed variations in colour between different roll sizes and different batches of paper. I have found there is even a very distinct difference in colour results after printing between the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag rolls and the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Duo sheets, and have consequently had profiles made for the Duo sheets - even though to the best of my knowledge it is supposed to be the same coating as "Photo Rag" . Perhaps different mills and 'factories' are producing slightly different coatings even with the same 'recipe'.
I have custom profiles made by Les Walking and it was infuriating changing rolls and finding that the prints had variations in tonality or colour.... just marginally... but quite distinct and totally unacceptable when producing the work I make.
I then out of desperation tried Canson Rag Photographic and found it to be an absolutely beautiful paper - although a tad too smooth for my own preference, since I quite liked the tooth of the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag. Choosing the compromise between having a texture which wasn't totally what I wanted , and having slight differences in colour between rolls was a no brainer for me...and I went the consistancy route.
I haven't tried the Arches Vellum Museum Rag, but am using the Canson BFK Rives for some artist books, and this paper has a lovely feel when held and quite a beautiful texture which I like. I am experimenting with using this paper instead of Canso Rag Photographique for my next body of work, looking at the landscape and geology - where the texture of the paper I think may contribute to the overall 'feel' of the image and what I want to create.
I would suggest though whenever choosing a paper, I firslty hold it in my hand to determine its' physical characteristics. I then would look at the technical data and specs to see the DMax etc.... then I would get a profile made. I wouldn't wste any ink printing images before then because unless you work out how to get the best out of the paper by using a custom profile, you really can't determine the potential of the paper. Once the profile is made, I would test a couple of images using a couple of different papers and get someeone else to put them up on the wall so initally I don't know which is which.... sort of like a blind trial with my eyes open... (LOL - bad pun I know)... Then over a couple of days work out which image has the best 'presence'.... and that would be the paper i would go with for that particular style of image or body of work.
Julie
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Arches Velin and BFK Rives are very similar papers, same coatings, both mould made , both very good but slightly less gamut and DMax than the metal machine made and smoother Rag Photographique. If you need more texture there is Arches Aquarelle, which prints text and detail very sharply. I am currently using it for some book projects. Again this paper is mould-made.
As far as the hoary gloss versus matte debate, gloss blacks do indeed "pop", bur a good matte black has a mysterious depth. Gloss colours shine in the highlights, matte colours in shadows can be rich, like old tapestry. The opinions of others will no doubt differ.
Cheers
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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gloss blacks do indeed "pop", bur a good matte black has a mysterious depth. Gloss colours shine in the highlights, matte colours in shadows can be rich, like old tapestry. The opinions of others will no doubt differ.
Agreed on all counts. This morning the client and I discussed this as they had made basic proofs on semi-gloss paper. Fortunately they understand the difference. As my long ago British ex-girlfriend used to say "it's horses for courses" and Canson Rag Photographique 310 is proving to be basically the best horse for this suite of 21 images of a California vineyard and ranch.
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I've been using the Canson Rag Photograhique in rolls for some time. My opinion is that it is by far the best smooth matte rag paper that I've ever used, and I've pretty much used them all. It produces awesome quality on the HPZ printers, especially with black and white neutral prints. I find it also a bit sharper than Photorag 308 and uses pigment whiteners not oba dyes. I just had a large print on it go up in a museum in New Orleans and everyone was raving about it. The Canson Edition Etching is my favorite etching surface media now as well. The Cason Montval Aquarelle Rag is my favorite significantly textured rag paper and is just unbelievably gorgeous with warm toned monochrome especially. It also doesn't scuff like William Turner's toothy delicate surface and I like the texture weave better.
I recently bought a roll of the Innova Soft Texture a couple of weeks ago, that used to be a pretty good paper for its price ( also an etching surface) and I was shocked at how horrible the coating was on this roll. It was uneven and blotchy all over and it curled so badly I could hardly use it. I guess you get what you pay for these days. And with the Canson you pay a lot. But what are you gonna do? Once you get addicted to it you can't stop using it.
Canson has been around since the 16th century and has always made some of the finest drawing papers every made.
john