Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Lightroom Q&A => Topic started by: smahn on December 22, 2010, 11:37:39 am
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Has anyone seen both the Luminous Landscape offering and George Jardine's to be able to contrast the relative merits of each?
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Yes - Lula for me all the way. I feel its far more entertaining.
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Josh, I'd love to hear more. Which did you learn more from?
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This is purely subjective - but I have always found education a lot more interesting when it is entertaining as well as informative. This is a mix Michael and Jeff carry off very well in all of their tutorials. The lula tutorials frequently also offer some fascinating insights into Adobe as well as Michael and Jeff's own work and thoughts.
Flip side of the coin - other tutorials (I wont name them - lets just leave them as 'others' ) are usually far to dry and uninteresting; often produced in a monotone voices with zero entertainment value. They bore me in seconds.
As to which tutorial you may learn more from - well that depends on your current level of knowledge.
All else I can really say is that the lula tutorials have great watchability and that I recommend them.
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other tutorials (I wont name them - lets just leave them as 'others' ) are usually far to dry and uninteresting; often produced in a monotone voices with zero entertainment value.
"... well basically, you suck at photoshop, that's why you're here..." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_X5uR7VC4M)
;D :D ;D
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I have watched Lula, Kelby, Lynda and Jardine’s video tutorials. I have found Jardine’s to be the best. He provides comprehensive coverage of all the features while keeping the instructions clear and understandable. His teaching style is engaging and well-organized.
But decide for yourself. Lula and Jardine each provide a free tutorial. Lula can be found at the Lula store. Jardine’s at http://mulita.com/training/sample-dev3 (http://mulita.com/training/sample-dev3)
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I agree with Bret completely. Jardine’s tutorials provide a very professional and comprehensive view of Lightroom. The video and audio are both excellent quality and easy to follow. I found Lula to be choppy and unpolished. Jardine is an excellent teacher and I defiantly recommend his tutorials.
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Coincidence that two newbies Ariel & Bret M. with the same IP address are so much in agreement? - or perhaps not so much... ;D
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The LuLa tutorials I have (most of them) are so good that I don't bother looking elsewhere unless I need a quick "how to" on a topic that LuLa doesn't cover.
Eric
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And I am in complete agreement with Eric.
I even have the same IP address (and name). 8)
Eric
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Hey Chris, I have an idea.
Let's go on competitors web sites and anonymously say how much better our products are than theirs?
No one will ever catch on.
M
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Hey Michael,
Are you using my IP address again?
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Coincidence that two newbies Ariel & Bret M. with the same IP address are so much in agreement? - or perhaps not so much... ;D
BUSTED!
That's actually pretty funny. Ya think somebody would come here and get the lay of the land for a few days before stepping on their "member" like that. Oh well, a putz is a putz...it's fun to kick them when you get them on the ground!
But regardless of what this putz may have said, I do like George's videos. They are short and to the point (if not maybe a little dry for my taste–but hey, I'm prolly biased). And George did work for Adobe and was involved in the development of Lightroom and knows his stuff.
Course, I'm also a big fan of Martin Evening's Lightroom book (http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Photoshop-Lightroom-Book-Photographers/dp/0321680707) and Seth Resnick's D65's Lightroom Workbook (http://www.d-65.com/downloads.html) ebook as well. I also like Matt Kozlowski's lightroomkillertips.com and Victoria Bampton's lightroomqueen.com.
Lot's of ways to learn Lightroom. But the best is to actually USE it!
Bret M. & Ariel, come back and take your medicine!
(and try to find a different IP address :-)
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Hi,
And I am in complete agreement with Eric.
Having a different name IP...
Best regards
Erik
And I am in complete agreement with Eric.
I even have the same IP address (and name). 8)
Eric
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No coincidence. Two photographers living together and sharing the same router! We both are readers of the forum and decided to finally try out contributing. We both have been watching tutorials over the winter break from school. And yes, we both have the same IP address!
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But regardless of what this putz may have said, I do like George's videos.
But the important question is: What kind of shirts does George wear? ;)
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I thought they were excellent and it gave me a speed up on learning especially the Develop Module
I hope they continue when V4 arrives
I tried the lynda.con video prefered the LL Video's cost's less too :)
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A very interesting thread. Once again, it points to how everyone is looking for something different. No matter what your style, if the content is good, you will have the opportunity to gain an audience.
As for my "style".... I agree with Jeff. It is dry. That's just me. I've tried to spend my energy on making the videos clear, concise, and well organized. Not on making them entertaining (aside from adding a tiny bit of music at the beginning and end just to set the tone...). That's not to say that entertainment value is not a worthy goal. It's just not my forte. I script the videos. Record the and edit the audio. Record and edit the video. Do all my own compression, HTML, CSS, blogging, sales, marketing, etc., etc. Oh, and... I do the photography, too. I'm tired at the end of the day! :-)
My other focus is to always try and keep the end goal in sight. Making better pictures. I feel that too many tutorials are simply geeking out on the knobs and switches. When I worked in Special Projects at Adobe, we called them "Tips and Tricks". Which I'm done with. I'm trying to tell a larger story now. But again, everyone is looking for a different thing. And I think (hope) the photographers who gravitate to my videos will be the ones who don't mind sitting and watching a 20 or 30 minute video, but then after that, are dying to get back out there and exercise their eye... finesse their vision, and make some better pictures.
George Jardine
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Hi George,
Nice to see Mr. Lightroom Adventure on this forum!
Best regards
Erik
A very interesting thread. Once again, it points to how everyone is looking for something different. No matter what your style, if the content is good, you will have the opportunity to gain an audience.
As for my "style".... I agree with Jeff. It is dry. That's just me. I've tried to spend my energy on making the videos clear, concise, and well organized. Not on making them entertaining (aside from adding a tiny bit of music at the beginning and end just to set the tone...). That's not to say that entertainment value is not a worthy goal. It's just not my forte. I script the videos. Record the and edit the audio. Record and edit the video. Do all my own compression, HTML, CSS, blogging, sales, marketing, etc., etc. Oh, and... I do the photography, too. I'm tired at the end of the day! :-)
My other focus is to always try and keep the end goal in sight. Making better pictures. I feel that too many tutorials are simply geeking out on the knobs and switches. When I worked in Special Projects at Adobe, we called them "Tips and Tricks". Which I'm done with. I'm trying to tell a larger story now. But again, everyone is looking for a different thing. And I think (hope) the photographers who gravitate to my videos will be the ones who don't mind sitting and watching a 20 or 30 minute video, but then after that, are dying to get back out there and exercise their eye... finesse their vision, and make some better pictures.
George Jardine
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For me it's more important what type of pants the video presenter is wearing. ;D
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For me it's more important what type of pants the video presenter is wearing. ;D
Hi Phil, to change the subject, I was just on your website and simply wanted to recognize your photographic vision displayed there - the Morocco sets in particular.
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Rather than starting a separate thread (which I will resort to only if I get no useful responses to this added posting) which if any of the Video Tutorials would prove most useful for someone (like myself) who wishes to develop Lightroom expertise for the processing of black-and-white photos. I suspect there's no clear choice. I do have the Alsheimer Black and White book as well as the Kelby Lightroom 3 book. But I believe that for myself a video run through would be more useful.
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The Reichmann-Schewe download (Lightroom 3 video tutorial) from this site's web store I think is the best Lightroom resource of its kind. That said, there isn't much to creating a great B&W rendition in Lightroom. Go to the HSL panel, select B&W and play away. Each colour slider changes the luminosity of the colour group underlying its grayscale area of the image. "Slide to taste". Or start with any of the large number of B&W Presets in the left side panel of the Develop module. You'll learn by doing how to make very pleasing B&W images in little time.
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The Reichmann-Schewe download (Lightroom 3 video tutorial) from this site's web store I think is the best Lightroom resource of its kind. That said, there isn't much to creating a great B&W rendition in Lightroom. Go to the HSL panel, select B&W and play away. Each colour slider changes the luminosity of the colour group underlying its grayscale area of the image. "Slide to taste". Or start with any of the large number of B&W Presets in the left side panel of the Develop module. You'll learn by doing how to make very pleasing B&W images in little time.
Thanks, Mark. To date I've been using Photoshop Elements with Silver Efex Pro, so I'm familiar with pre-sets (in SEP) and in fact rely on them extensively. (I've been told that I can also use SEP with Lightroom as a plug-in, but haven't yet been successful in managing that.) With my interest in trying Lightroom as my primary black-and-white processing software, I was interested in gaining the extra aesthetic flexibility that might be available to me there without using pre-sets (although pre-sets are certainly easier, and do establish an advanced starting point for later refinement of an image). In the books I've been reading, while I find they are occassionally beautifully written, I often find their instructions somewhat opaque. As a lawyer, who values written precision, I am often frustrated and confused by these texts. Anyway, your advice is good. Again, thanks. Jim
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Jim, if you are after written precision in a Lightroom 3 book, look no further than Martin Evening's "The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 3 Book". Good as it gets and very complete. And yes - the presets should be viewed as an "advanced starting point" - good way of approaching it.
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Jim, if you are after written precision in a Lightroom 3 book, look no further than Martin Evening's "The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 3 Book". Good as it gets and very complete. And yes - the presets should be viewed as an "advanced starting point" - good way of approaching it.
Mark: I looked up the book on Amazon, read the reviews, glanced at the table of contents, and it does seem exactly what I now need to supplement the Kelby book. I've ordered it. Many thanks. I did however weigh the possible advantage (or disadvantage) of applying my money instead to a video tutorial. But I'll try the Evening book first, and maybe later on decide to go the video route. Thanks again.
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Rather than starting a separate thread (which I will resort to only if I get no useful responses to this added posting) which if any of the Video Tutorials would prove most useful for someone (like myself) who wishes to develop Lightroom expertise for the processing of black-and-white photos. I suspect there's no clear choice. I do have the Alsheimer Black and White book as well as the Kelby Lightroom 3 book. But I believe that for myself a video run through would be more useful.
If your focus is Black&White, you owe it to yourself to download and try Capture One which seems to my eye, to be a far more sophisticated and effective approach to B&W than is Lightroom
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...which seems to my eye, to be a far more sophisticated and effective approach to B&W than is Lightroom
Oh, really? Why?
Note: I'm not discounting the new B&W functionality of C1 6.x but to "my eye" LR still has some advantages such as 8 vs 6 color color adjustment channels and the TAT which makes adjusting "tweener" colors much easier. I also like the highlight/Shadows split adjustment in Split Tone.
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perhaps I am guilty of overstatement ;)
It is a matter of personal preference
I really like the look of C1's conversions. judge for yourself at theintuitivelens.com (http://www.theintuitivelens.com/software/review-of-capture-one-pro-6-vs-lightroom-3-for-black-and-white-photos/).
Also C1's ability to apparently 'vectorize' B&W allowing large blow-ups is pretty impressive
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I really like the look of C1's conversions. judge for yourself at theintuitivelens.com (http://www.theintuitivelens.com/software/review-of-capture-one-pro-6-vs-lightroom-3-for-black-and-white-photos/).
Uh huh...and I already discussed this with the guy wrote wrote that blog post here (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=49283.msg417705#msg417705). Seems he left Lightroom's tone control at default which, well, really impacts the color to B&W conversion.
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shoulda known! ::)
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shoulda known! ::)
Gotcha...
:~)
Again, I like what C1 has done with the B&W conversion and split tone they added...still some things needed though to catch up or surpass Lightroom's color to B&W functionality. Either tool is capable...but LR is still a bit more advanced.
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I watched few samples and this guy is definitely the best. Simple straight forward, deductive. Great Teacher. Thanks.
Yair
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Hi Phil, to change the subject, I was just on your website and simply wanted to recognize your photographic vision displayed there - the Morocco sets in particular.
Thanks for the kind words!! I just saw them (the kind words) now. I still am uploading photos from my trip. Sadly my day job is interfering with my 'RAW processing with LR' time in the evenings. :'(
I am a recent migrant to LR after years of using ACR. As far as using LR to create B&W images, what I love about LR is it's ability to save various types of monochrome B&W presets (such as a sepia tone, a cyanotype, a cream tone, various duo tones, a high or low contrast version of each ect.) and quickly apply them to other files so as to get a quick feel as to which treatment is preferred. Then you can use the preset as a starting point to tweak to that file's taste using color adjustment channels ect. It is much easier to preview a file with various presets in LR than in ACR.