Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Steve Hendrix on October 18, 2010, 10:16:39 am
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Effective immediately, the Aptus-II 12 is now available for the AFi/Hy6 platform.
Please understand what we know so far:
*this is for existing AFi/Hy6 users
*there is no current stated intention to ship AFi/Hy6 cameras
This is the extent of what we know at this time. If there are questions, post them or PM me and we'll try to get answers (and provide our perspective, naturally).
We are accepting orders - $33,490 (back only). Upgrade prices and estimated delivery times will be forthcoming.
http://www.captureintegration.com/2010/10/18/aptus-ii-12-for-afihy6/
Steve Hendrix
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Estimated delivery in Q1 2011.
http://www.captureintegration.com/2010/10/18/aptus-ii-12-for-afihy6/ (http://www.captureintegration.com/2010/10/18/aptus-ii-12-for-afihy6/)
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Great news!
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Does this mean that you could use the back also on a Rollei 6008? Or is that a completely different mount?
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Does this mean that you could use the back also on a Rollei 6008? Or is that a completely different mount?
Completely different.
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If I'm not mistaken, the AFi in the Hy6 incarnation, is still available from Sinar. I'll be very curious to hear about their upgrade policy and prices. Thanks for posting this!
Neil
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You can also get Hy6 directly from DHW, configured to accept Leaf batteries.
http://www.dhw-fototechnik.de/html/kontakt.html
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So could this also hint at being the new (old) camera Phase are working on but possibly with a Mamiya lens mount...? :-\
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A Mamiya lens mount wouldn't work on a 6x6 SLR like the AFi/Hy6 - none of the 645 lenses would focus to infinity.
But the idea is appealing if only for returning the interchangeable finders feature to the Mamiya/Phase 645 line! :)
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Great news! Not that I need or could afford one at the moment. What I and a lot of other afi/hy6 users would like now is a mount for the next generation of p65+ - type backs from phase...I want those long exposures!
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love to hear that as option for my artec with hy6 mount ....
:D
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But the idea is appealing if only for returning the interchangeable finders feature to the Mamiya/Phase 645 line! :)
The Hy6 already has interchangeable finders: waist level, 45 degree prism, and a 90 degree model.
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The Hy6 already has interchangeable finders: waist level, 45 degree prism, and a 90 degree model.
I know; and believe me you are envied for it. I was just referring to gazwas' speculation that Phase/Mamiya might have a finger in this pie: "So could this also hint at being the new (old) camera Phase are working on but possibly with a Mamiya lens mount...? ". Those of us with a focal plane shutter preference, and Mamiya lenses, want the next PhaseOne camera to offer interchangeable finders.
I hope that dealers like Doug & Steve are relaying our views back to PhaseOne HQ...
Ray
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Huh??
Retrofit a Hy6 with a (6x6) focal plane shutter and change the mount from Rollei's Schneider & Zeiss programs to Mamiya (645) mount, all to put a a digital back which was already announced in Mamiya format onto a camera body with an interchangable viewfinder??
Hmmm...
Sorry, guys, but that won't work for a number of reasons. Flange distances of the mounts, for starters.
*If* I were in the business of betting on adding interchangable viewfinders to the Mamiya, I'd have to go with the Contax 645 as the model for how they'd do it.
But back to topic -- Very glad to hear the AFi-II 12 news. :)
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Bradley, did you read the thread in full? I was the first one to immediately kill off the notion of Mamiya lens compatibility, or any involvement whatsoever by Mamiya/Phase, by pointing out that flange focal distance wouldn't work.
Having thoroughly deflated gazwas (sorry, man), I then merely went on to use his premise as a springboard to remind PhaseOne yet again that we'd love to have interchangeable finders. Never was I referring to the AFi/Hy6 as a basis for this to happen; that would be ludicrous.
Anyway...a revived Contax? Yeah, that would be lovely. But a better Mamiya would be even lovelier.
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I did. And you were. (I didn't realize that precluded the possibility of any further comment on the matter.)
I simply felt the idea was surprising enough to warrant (additional) comment, with some specifics.
I agree--you did not suggest that the Hy6 would be the platform for further development. I don't know what I might have said to make you think that...
Nor was my post was not suggesting a revival of the Contax by Phase, either (I think they have enough different brands to manage at the moment), merely suggesting that if I were them, and I wanted to add interchangeable finder capability to the Mamiya, I'd use the Contax as a good model for how to do it on the Mamiya.
It seems we're in agreement. :)
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I did. And you were. (I didn't realize that precluded the possibility of any further comment on the matter.)
I simply felt the idea was surprising enough to warrant (additional) comment, with some specifics.
I agree--you did not suggest that the Hy6 would be the platform for further development. I don't know what I might have said to make you think that...
Nor was my post was not suggesting a revival of the Contax by Phase, either (I think they have enough different brands to manage at the moment), merely suggesting that if I were them, and I wanted to add interchangeable finder capability to the Mamiya, I'd use the Contax as a good model for how to do it on the Mamiya.
It seems we're in agreement. :)
OK that's cool, Bradley - we are in agreement. :)
I don't know what I might have said to make you think that...
I just got edgy when you used the words "Sorry, guys, but that won't work..." - guys plural seemed to refer to both gazwas + me. A small matter of phrasing. Then again if my original tangent from the Hy6 to Mamiya viewfinders had been expressed more clearly, we probably wouldn't got to this confusion. Sorry for wasting your time!
Ray
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Just dropping in to say I'm thrilled by the availability of this back for the AFi....
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Back to the drawing board with my theory then! :-\
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Here's one idea: putting the new sensor in Leaf backs for the AFI was probably pretty simple: they had the back design (from the AFI 10), theymay have had some extra unusued "chassis", making it even easier. It gives Leaf a new "dominance" in a sector. The Leaf 12 gives them some high end publicity while Phase is busy retooling (perhaps) for some new back config.
As long as Leaf can sell enough of these to recoup the "specialty" costs of configuring for the AFI back, its not a bad way to sell some backs.
I seriously doubt there is any bigger, greater agenda at play here. Phase's collaboration with Schneider with lenses for the AFD suggest that Schneider is having to find a new home for their previously designed Rollei type lenses.
But as long as you can get AFI-12 back, lenses, and body support for the AFI, its pretty cool to be the belle of the ball for a while, however briefly.
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I completely agree, Geoffrey.
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And in the meantime you can scroll down this thread (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19936) for more impressive samples...
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Yes, I saw those... Almost medical. I look forward to seeing those kinds of details in my nature photography. ;)
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And in the meantime you can scroll down this thread (http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19936) for more impressive samples...
Just seen those shots and the quality is amazing..... mind blowing even! :o
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Contrary to the very first images shown from Aptus-II 12, the newer ones are pretty much astonishing.. wow
I wonder which way now will Phase One backs go. I hope we won't see the same results but in a P1 digiback body..
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Contrary to the very first images shown from Aptus-II 12, the newer ones are pretty much astonishing.. wow
I guess that's the difference between me taking snaps and letting a pro shoot with it :) (same back, same camera, same software)
Yair
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I guess that's the difference between me taking snaps and letting a pro shoot with it :) (same back, same camera, same software)
Yair
Ha, ha :D
No offence Yair but those new shots are staggering and make yours look like my three year old niece shot them. :P
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Ha, ha :D
No offence Yair but those new shots are staggering and make yours look like my three year old niece shot them. :P
Well..my 3 yr old takes better pictures than I do...and he's smarter and prettier as well!!!
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the get dpi shots look really astonishing.
i never was a hi pixel fanboy, thinking that workflow, flawless files and great lenses are the most important aspects in my architecture shooting field. also i am not a big fan of changing workflows ( i am even very scary about that !!) once it works fine, but 'll take this pill now and will step up to the afi10 on my artec.
its great that i can get it ( as well as the A12 ) in afi/hy6 mount, i really love open standards, its so practical.
it starts to be tempting now for me to step up resolution wise, doesnt matter if my architecture clients need that directly or not. at least for my art work and for exposition prints it looks in any case very promising.
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is it possible to get an hy6/afi/rollei with a new aptus II 7?
and can you still buy the rollei af lenses new?
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The Rollei 6008 AF is not supported by Phase One/Leaf. Its mount is different from the Hy6 mount I learned earlier this week.
The Rollei 6008 AF should take backs from Hasselblad and Sinar though.
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i wasn't refering to the 6008. rather the rollei version of the hy6/afi.
like this one. will it take the new leaf aptus II backs?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/634635-USA/Rollei_66031_Hy6_Medium_Format_SLR.html
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Hello,
The Rollei Hy6 and the Leaf Afi are identical, to the very best of my knowledge, and accept exactly the same accessories and backs and lenses. The Rollei/Zeiss/Schneider lenses that will function on the Rollei 6008 will work just as well on either the Hy6 or Leaf Afi. Which is what led me to be so eager to buy the Leaf, since I already had all the lenses I needed and they are gems.
Neil
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No, the Hy6 doesn't take Aptus backs. You have to get an AFi-xxx (instead of the Aptus-xxx) back if you want to use it on a Hy6/AFi camera.
Yes, Rollei lenses are still available new. Just got a couple myself this week! :)
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No, the Hy6 doesn't take Aptus backs. You have to get an AFi-xxx (instead of the Aptus-xxx) back if you want to use it on a Hy6/AFi camera.
Yes, Rollei lenses are still available new. Just got a couple myself this week! :)
Not sure I understand this. Why would an Aptus back in AFi mount work on an AFi and not a Hy6? Are you saying that the dealer who posted this thread got it wrong?
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Not sure I understand this. Why would an Aptus back in AFi mount work on an AFi and not a Hy6? Are you saying that the dealer who posted this thread got it wrong?
I believe Brad means specifically an "AFi versioned Aptus" is required for mounting rather than an Aptus. I think a lot of speculation and confusion remains regardless. I have a meeting scheduled with DHW in New York this week and hope to clarify some things...
Steve Hendrix
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Yep, thank you for the clarification, Steve.
Graham, I have never seen Leaf refer to the AFi-II 10 digital back for example, as an Aptus AFi-II 10 (or any other combination of "Aptus" and AFi"). I've always seen the AFi-mount backs marketed simply as AFi's.
Perhaps I simply missed the co-mingling somewhere, but my understanding is no Aptus back is going to fit an AFi/Hy6, and one cannot simply buy it in AFi mount the way one can buy it in Hasselblad V or Mamiya mount. (Basically I'm not sure there's any such thing as an "Aptus back in AFi mount", at least officially).
This is why the news of the AFi-II 12 is such a big deal, as the Aptus-II 12 isn't an option for the AFi/Hy6.
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In an unrelated note... I'm getting sooooooo tired of writing "Hy6/AFi"... It's the same camera!! (yeah, yeah, 'cept for the battery terminals). I think we need a name like "Phamiya" to capture the mix of brands involved with this camera: Rolleiflex, Leaf and Phase...
Rolleafase?? Haha-- Rolleaf for short? :)
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In an unrelated note... I'm getting sooooooo tired of writing "Hy6/AFi"... It's the same camera!! (yeah, yeah, 'cept for the battery terminals). I think we need a name like "Phamiya" to capture the mix of brands involved with this camera: Rolleiflex, Leaf and Phase...
Rolleafase?? Haha-- Rolleaf for short? :)
HyFi? :)
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HyFi? :)
HiFi ;D
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Hello,
The Rollei Hy6 and the Leaf Afi are identical, to the very best of my knowledge, and accept exactly the same accessories and backs and lenses. The Rollei/Zeiss/Schneider lenses that will function on the Rollei 6008 will work just as well on either the Hy6 or Leaf Afi. Which is what led me to be so eager to buy the Leaf, since I already had all the lenses I needed and they are gems.
Neil
As others have mentioned, not quite. The lenses are fully interchangeable - the backs, prisms, and little things are different. But its the lens interchangeability that really makes this work.
On another note - HiFi is a great name for the Hy6/AFI camera.... of course, let us not forget Sinar as well. HiFiS?
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Hey... the HyFi! Sinar's camera was also the Hy6, so I think all three 'brands' are rolled in here... The slight spelling variations are fine--I like it! :D
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HyFi it is.
Good name.
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As we can see, this camera is dead (he he, partly resucitated) and we're still discussing how to call it. Since the beginning this confusion bother me a lot despite I was a total 300% (but poor) fan of the system.
Incredible clever and amazing camera with the sorriest of marketing. Another lesson for history.
Eduardo
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This has been thrashed over elsewhere, but FWIW, you can buy them new, and you can get state of the art backs for it.... so how dead is that? See:
http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/1740760/franke-heideckes-ashes-rises-dhw-fototechnik
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i just talked to a dealer in hamburg and he garanteed me that you can get all the aptus II backs in afi mount.
which contradicts everything i've ever been told. so if you can buy this camera new (where) aan mount the new afi backs on them, why does everyone think they're dead and why isn't anyone buying or using them?
yair!!! can you please clear this up?!?
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All rather confusing. From the article that was published in BJP:
The new Hy6 as redesigned by DHW Fototechnik looks like its predecessor and provides the same quality of images, but, says Hartje, “we’ve changed what’s inside. And, we have stock, so there is no waiting list – we know how many pieces we can sell each year and produce them accordingly.”
Hopefully somebody can clarify:
1) where can you buy the camera? For sure not on their website...
2) is the camera being sold at B&H deadstock or is it already the newly redesigned Hy6?
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AFAIK, you buy the camera from DHW, via contacting them through phone or email.
Reiner Shoenrock
DHW Fototechnik GmbH
Salzdahlumer Str. 196
38126 Braunschweig
Telefon (0531) 68 00 100
Telefax (0531) 68 00 295
eMail r.schoenrock@dhw-fototechnik.de
read this also:
http://www.rolleiflexpages.com/Hy6.html
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i just talked to a dealer in hamburg and he garanteed me that you can get all the aptus II backs in afi mount.
which contradicts everything i've ever been told. so if you can buy this camera new (where) aan mount the new afi backs on them, why does everyone think they're dead and why isn't anyone buying or using them?
yair!!! can you please clear this up?!?
The Aptus-II 12 will be available in AFi/ Hy6 mount in Q1/2011.
It is similar in design to the AFi-II 10 back (just called Aptus-II not AFi-II)
there are no other Leaf backs in this mount currently available
Yair
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Ah... So officially, Leaf doesn't make "AFi-II" backs any more. This latest is called an "Aptus-II 12 in AFi mount" instead... Confusing, but I think I get it...
Yair, will the Aptus-II 12 in AFi mount retain the tilt screen feature of the AFi-II 10? This is an important ergonomic benefit of the AFi-II 10 backs, which, frankly, saves my back.
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Yair, will the Aptus-II 12 in AFi mount retain the tilt screen feature of the AFi-II 10? This is an important ergonomic benefit of the AFi-II 10 backs, which, frankly, saves my back.
Yes the back looks and works the same as the AFi-II 10
cheers
yair
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Hello Yair,
I just had my AFi firmware upgraded to 3.10 at Sinar. This is slightly off-topic, but what happens if I connect it to Leaf Capture 11.2.4 - does it try to change the camera firmware (which would be very bad)?. Does it operate OK tethered to Capture One? Does Lightroom also support this camera?
Next, on topic: with the sensorflex technology on the Aptus-II 12, which formats can be chosen and how many megapixels are each choice?
I'm wondering if I would benefit from the upgrade from the 7 to the 12 (I do sometimes make large prints, up to 110 x 150 cm) and presumably there would be a noticeable difference, but how well would this difference show up in smaller prints, say 60 x 70cm? The file size might be so heavy as to slow everything else down and not really worthwhile for smaller size prints and books.
I'm interested to see the back when it reaches Jugend, but perhaps you can make some useful comments from your own experience.
Thanks, Neil
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I just had my AFi firmware upgraded to 3.10 at Sinar. This is slightly off-topic, but what happens if I connect it to Leaf Capture 11.2.4 - does it try to change the camera firmware (which would be very bad)?. Does it operate OK tethered to Capture One? Does Lightroom also support this camera?
I'm not Yair ;D but have a AFI-II 7 just upgraded too. I did not connect the back to Leaf Capture ever (but would not expect any problem, as only the back is connected and not the body), but ARC (should be same converter as in Lightroom) still works and does not see any difference. Can't make more checks right now, as body is back to DHW (massive front focus on AF, manual OK)...
Andreas
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Hello Yair,
I just had my AFi firmware upgraded to 3.10 at Sinar. This is slightly off-topic, but what happens if I connect it to Leaf Capture 11.2.4 - does it try to change the camera firmware (which would be very bad)?. Does it operate OK tethered to Capture One? Does Lightroom also support this camera?
Next, on topic: with the sensorflex technology on the Aptus-II 12, which formats can be chosen and how many megapixels are each choice?
I'm wondering if I would benefit from the upgrade from the 7 to the 12 (I do sometimes make large prints, up to 110 x 150 cm) and presumably there would be a noticeable difference, but how well would this difference show up in smaller prints, say 60 x 70cm? The file size might be so heavy as to slow everything else down and not really worthwhile for smaller size prints and books.
I'm interested to see the back when it reaches Jugend, but perhaps you can make some useful comments from your own experience.
Thanks, Neil
Hi Neil,
I've asked about the firmware so should have an answer shortly. My recommendation would be to use 11.3.6 which does not include any AFi related firmware so it will not upload anything to neither your back nor body.
Capture One PRO 5.2 (or DB of your back is AFi-II 7) supports your camera just like Leaf Capture does.
Lightroom compatibility is similar to Aptus-II 7 (or Aptus 75S if your back is AFi-7).
Regarding the 12; the native print size in 300dpi is 87cm x 66cm compared to 56cm x 42cm from your back so there will be a substantial difference in its ability to print large.
For 60x70 prints allot of it depends on the subject matter and amount of detail captured. Of course the 12 will capture quite a bit more so fine detail will be retained even when downscaling.
Colour rendition IMO has also seen some improvement with this new Dalsa sensor but as you already suggested you will check this yourself...
Hope this makes sense
yair
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Yair, thanks for the comments but what about the other question, "with the sensorflex technology on the Aptus-II 12, which formats can be chosen and how many megapixels are each choice?"
best, Neil
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Yair, thanks for the comments but what about the other question, "with the sensorflex technology on the Aptus-II 12, which formats can be chosen and how many megapixels are each choice?"
best, Neil
Sorry missed that one (had a very long drive today...need to be up again in 4 hrs to fly to Italy...);
You can choose between 80MP 4:3 ratio or 60MP 1:1 (40mm x 40mm) crop
Yair
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Yes the back looks and works the same as the AFi-II 10
Great! Thanks, Yair. That is great. :) The tilting screen is important for me.
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And for those who've upgraded their HyFi's to 3.10, what differences (if any) have you found?
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Hello,
I don't know what other differences there are, but the AF seems to be quicker and more positive with all lenses; in addition, there was always a delay between the time the camera booted up and when the AF lenses would function on AF: now it seems instantaneous. I complained many times about that delay to Leaf.
Neil
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Hello Yair,
I just had my AFi firmware upgraded to 3.10 at Sinar. This is slightly off-topic, but what happens if I connect it to Leaf Capture 11.2.4 - does it try to change the camera firmware (which would be very bad)?.
Hi Neil,
Checked it for you, LC will not downgrade the firmware on the body
cheers yair
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Hi Steve, indeed this is what had been hinted at during Photokina :-)
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Hi Kipling,
new lenses can of course still be bought from DHW Fototechnik in Braunschweig. Same for accessories etc. The full product line is being maintained, supported and further developed.
Regarding Aptus backs on Hy6 or AFi, these will not work given the different mount. The AFi variants of the Aptus backs are specifically designed for use with the AFi/Hy6 body.
Some further information is available on my web pages.
Pascal
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And for those who've upgraded their HyFi's to 3.10, what differences (if any) have you found?
The main difference is the vastly improved AF function (software+hardware).