Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: David Grover / Phase One on September 27, 2010, 07:04:02 AM

Title: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 27, 2010, 07:04:02 AM
Hi Forum,

I have decided to write a brief round up with what we announced at Photokina.  Cross posted to Getdpi.

First, new products.  (All of this is in my own words, but you can find the official

Lenses

We announced and showed the new HC50II and HC120II.  Both of these lenses have been completely redesigned optically.  The exterior dimensions are the same.

Performance on the 50 is much improved and in particular with the HTS.  Lens Correction calculations have already been made and are included in Phocus 2.6.

The HCD120II lens has an increase in resolution and an improvement in axial chromatic aberration.

Digital Products

The CFV has now been fitted with the same 50MP sensor as in the H4D.

The H3D31 has now been updated to H4D specification.  ie True Focus, Larger USER and TF buttons, brighter AF assist light.

We will also have some new firmware features for the whole H4D range...


Multi shot technology has been expanded to a new six shot mode which will give us a 200MP file from a 50MP sensor.

I won't add to much more on that before I get a little more R&D background so I can be specific with answers!  Suffice to say the sample images we had at Photokina were very well received. 

This will be on the H4D50MS only as an optional feature.  There will also be an option to upgrade existing models.

Software

Phocus 2.6 will include...


A 'Phocus Quick' solution for rapid import and export of images to produce printable JPEGs.  Windows only currently. 

The most exciting part is Phocus Mobile!!

This is an iPad and iPhone application which will remotely connect to the host computer during tethered shooting.

As the photographer shoots, preview files are immediately sent to the iPad for viewing.  Its fast!

The iPad user can pinch to zoom in a little (100% view in development), swipe to move through the image folder, rotate for landscape / horizontal view, rate photographs using the new 5 star rating - which then syncs to the host computer.

Finally there is a virtual camera interface for adjusting the camera and capturing images!  See screen grab.

Camera control can be disabled if you don't want your AD to take over the shoot.  ;)

Images can be emailed from the iPad and we are thinking about adding some link to the "Cloud".  ie Dropbox or MobileMe.

Its a very nice implementation of the iDevices and was very popular at Photokina!

Available free from the App store after it goes through Apple Certification.

For the fun stuff...

We are experimenting with some thoughts on a custom shop.  So we made a White (not black!) and a naked camera in just its steel underclothes.

Picture of the white one attached, or now fondly known as "The Storm Trooper" due to obvious reasons.

These are not available products but more to gauge if people would be interested in something other than the norm.  (Yes, I know you would like a black one. ;) )

The White one was ordered many times over, even though there is no final decision on availability.  We will have to see.

Finally we have a partnership with Ferrari which saw the release of an H4D40 in Ferrari red.  Available as a limited run.

We also had a Ferrari California on stage which we did some captures of.  Ill post some when they arrive back from Germany!

I think that is it.  It was a very busy show and I was suprised how high the visitor numbers were again.

All the best,


David


PS.  If you want to see all the detailed press releases, go here...

http://press.hasselblad.com/press-releases/press-releases-2010.aspx

Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: robert zimmerman on September 27, 2010, 07:17:42 AM
We will also have some new firmware features for the whole H4D range...

    * Electronic Spirit Level (In three Dimensions)
    * Visible preview on the back of the camera in tethered mode
    * Information on the rear LCD (Aperture, Shutter, etc etc)

the firmware features will not be for h3d owners?  ???
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 27, 2010, 07:27:31 AM
We will also have some new firmware features for the whole H4D range...

    * Electronic Spirit Level (In three Dimensions)
    * Visible preview on the back of the camera in tethered mode
    * Information on the rear LCD (Aperture, Shutter, etc etc)

the firmware features will not be for h3d owners?  ???

You will not benefit from the spirit level as the H3D does not have the True Focus sensor but the other features will of course apply.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: amsp on September 27, 2010, 08:01:49 AM
I feel a disturbance in the force... (http://www.mediacollege.com/downloads/sound-effects/star-wars/lightsaber/lightsaber_02.mp3)

Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: BrendanStewart on September 27, 2010, 08:41:55 AM
Any upgrade path for H3DII-31 to H4D31 ?
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 27, 2010, 08:53:26 AM
Any upgrade path for H3DII-31 to H4D31 ?

Hi Brendan,

Not to the 31 but to the 40.

David

Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: robert zimmerman on September 27, 2010, 09:15:09 AM
Hi Brendan,

Not to the 31 but to the 40.

David



the same upgrade offer as earlier? or a new and improved, upgraded upgrade, after photokina offer?
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 27, 2010, 09:19:27 AM
the same upgrade offer as earlier? or a new and improved, upgraded upgrade, after photokina offer?

Hi Kipling.  There were no changes to the upgrade program over Photokina.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: BrendanStewart on September 27, 2010, 10:38:45 AM
ok talk to me... i'd love to upgrade to the H4D40 from my H3DII-31. What's the differential?
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: Dustbak on September 27, 2010, 10:58:07 AM
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/69132.aspx


I am glad these things get communicated to prevent the sense of the secret hand-shake syndrome :)
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: BrendanStewart on September 27, 2010, 11:19:00 AM
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/69132.aspx


I am glad these things get communicated to prevent the sense of the secret hand-shake syndrome :)

I was hoping to have like a 5K option. Basically according to that chart, my trade in is worth 3k. The same as if i traded in a Canon 20D or just about any other DSLR for that matter.

I know people will say, well there wasn't much margin in the H3DII-31, but if you look at it from the angle of the consumer, i just spent 10K on a camera, there is a newer version for 18K, i'd love to trade in my 10K for the difference or something close to it.

If that makes any sense.

Sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread. I'd just love to have some of the features in the H4D. I just can't plop down another 18K. There isn't a huge market for used H3DII-31's, so i'd take a considerable hit.
Title: Custom camera
Post by: Dick Roadnight on September 27, 2010, 03:29:09 PM
Rectanguloid mirror box (square from front)
Dougnut user interface (buttons etc) with square hole, mirror box inset-able in portrait or landscape.
optional pistol grip battery, under center of Gravity of camera.
Mirror box and/or digiback can be slid into Sinar P3 lensboard, allowing use of wide angle lenses.
I can discuss this with you on the 12th.
Title: Re: Cuystom camera
Post by: arashm on September 27, 2010, 06:50:57 PM
Rectanguloid mirror box (square from front)
Dougnut user interface (buttons etc) with square hole, mirror box inset-able in portrait or landscape.
optional pistol grip battery, under center of Gravity of camera.
Mirror box and/or digiback can be slid into Sinar P3 lensboard, allowing use of wide angle lenses.
I can discuss this with you on the 12th.

Umm
did I miss something??
what is this?
12th of OCT?
thanks
am
Title: Re: Cuystom camera
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 28, 2010, 03:08:11 AM
Umm
did I miss something??
what is this?
12th of OCT?
thanks
am

Its a Hasselblad UK event in London on the 12th.
Title: Re: Cuystom camera
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 28, 2010, 03:11:04 AM
Rectanguloid mirror box (square from front)
Dougnut user interface (buttons etc) with square hole, mirror box inset-able in portrait or landscape.
optional pistol grip battery, under center of Gravity of camera.
Mirror box and/or digiback can be slid into Sinar P3 lensboard, allowing use of wide angle lenses.
I can discuss this with you on the 12th.

Id love to know what a Doughnut interface is.  Glazed or plain? ;)

We have discussed may times internally about the need for an industrial type mirrorless camera.  In depends a lot on if we believe it will be useful across a range of industries.

However, it would certainly not be designed along side any view camera solutions.

Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: eronald on September 28, 2010, 03:51:09 AM
Hi David,

 As you have chosen to put yourself willingly in harm's way, I guess no question is taboo.

 Now, may I ask you why Hasselblad is not providing the BLACK camera option which everyone seems to be requesting?

 And please don't give us any bs about the small manufacturing run etc, etc - if you can do red, white, custom, then you can do black.

Edmund
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: design_freak on September 28, 2010, 05:01:14 AM
Hi David,

 As you have chosen to put yourself willingly in harm's way, I guess no question is taboo.

 Now, may I ask you why Hasselblad is not providing the BLACK camera option which everyone seems to be requesting?

 And please don't give us any bs about the small manufacturing run etc, etc - if you can do red, white, custom, then you can do black.

It's music to my ears :-) If you pay 5k Euro for custom color (BLACK) you are my dream customer. David we can call this version "Phantom" or "NightHawk"  ;)

Edmund
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 28, 2010, 05:13:53 AM
Hi David,

 As you have chosen to put yourself willingly in harm's way, I guess no question is taboo.

 Now, may I ask you why Hasselblad is not providing the BLACK camera option which everyone seems to be requesting?

 And please don't give us any bs about the small manufacturing run etc, etc - if you can do red, white, custom, then you can do black.

Edmund

In harm's way?  Not sure what you imply by that.

To quote myself...

"These are not available products but more to gauge if people would be interested in something other than the norm. "

So we are not saying that anything is or isn't available.

It was an experiment at Photokina to see if it could be an interesting option for different finishes and colours.  Anything is potentially possible.

Photokina was a good proving ground to ask for people's opinion.

The black H camera we have made look incredibly ordinary, so thought it better to take something a little more exciting.  ie White and Steel.

David



Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: BrendanStewart on September 28, 2010, 07:50:03 AM
David,

H3DII-31 to H4D31 ? Just body upgrade? Possible?
Title: Re: Custom camera
Post by: Dick Roadnight on September 28, 2010, 08:09:42 AM
We have discussed may times internally about the need for an industrial type mirrorless camera.  In depends a lot on if we believe it will be useful across a range of industries.
There is considerable demand for quality Wide-Angle T/S cameras, mainly for architecture.

The best cost-effective non-retro-focus Wide-Angle lenses are too short to use on SLR's as the mirror gets in the way...

Current Hasselblad Wide-Angle lenses do not have enough image circle for T & S without a tele-converter.

Pancake cameras and Medium format digital view cameras are too much trouble for many photographers.

A Mirror-less camera would be in demand for this type of work.

A pseudo-SLR viewfinder would be great, but that is not currently possible with hi-res Medium-format digital backs...

(...but "they" could make a small-format digital back, (which would not be much use with MF-WA lenses) or the Red 645 might be an option.)

The solution might be something like a SWC with a built-in glass-free shift/tilt/focusing mount...

Even if we could not have 50 frames per second full colour live view on the digiback, live view that refreshed every second or so might be acceptable ...but not ideal for hand-held work.

The recently-announced tethered preview on the digiback might be the solution... if the digiback has this ability built-in, how small a "tethered/attached" box would be needed to provide this in a hand-held camera?
Title: Re: Cuystom camera
Post by: JonathanBenoit on September 28, 2010, 08:38:51 AM
The recently-announced tethered preview on the digiback might be the solution... if the digiback has this ability built-in, how small a "tethered/attached" box would be needed to provide this in a hand-held camera?

It sounds like Phocus will send back the video to the camera's lcd. I'm not sure what application that would lend itself. If you need to still be tethered, why wouldn't you just look at the computer screen? I guess maybe it might slightly speed up the workflow for some.
Title: Re: Cuystom camera
Post by: paulmoorestudio on September 28, 2010, 08:43:25 AM
...
Pancake cameras and Medium format digital view cameras are too much trouble for many photographers.



I love that statement..you know what? maybe they need to need to stick to point and shoots, or better, train as digital hygienists.. they wouldn't even have to fuss
with a camera.   I hope I am taking your statement way out of context.
Title: Re: Custom camera
Post by: Dick Roadnight on September 28, 2010, 08:44:14 AM
Id love to know what a Doughnut interface is.  Glazed or plain? ;)
Just an SLR with a removable mirror box, which you could fit into the "doughnut user interface" in portrait of landscape orientation.

The thought was that you could mount the digiback in the doughnut interface for mirror-less less use, especially with non-retro-focus Wide Angle lenses.  
Title: Re: Custom camera
Post by: Dick Roadnight on September 28, 2010, 09:00:27 AM
It sounds like Phocus will send back the video to the camera's lcd. I'm not sure what application that would lend itself. If you need to still be tethered, why wouldn't you just look at the computer screen? I guess maybe it might slightly speed up the workflow for some.

That is why I was wonder in if you could run Phocus on a small electronic gizmo that you could attach to the camera, and get live view on a hand-held, non-tethered camera.

Apparently it was a much-requested feature.

If you tether to...

power the camera, save the camera battery
allow others to view/process/approve the pictures
backup images
send images to a remote customer

...but you still want to be at the camera...  e.g. to adjust composition, then it makes sense, especially if you are using a view camera so you do not have an SLR view-finder.

You may then use the computer screen for fine focusing.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: Barkeeper on September 28, 2010, 09:15:36 AM
Here is the "red one" (bella macina):
http://de.engadget.com/2010/09/23/hasselblad-macht-mittelformat-mit-ferrari-logo-preis-nicht-fur/

Barkeeper
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: Dick Roadnight on September 28, 2010, 09:21:44 AM
Here is the "red one" (bella macina):
http://de.engadget.com/2010/09/23/hasselblad-macht-mittelformat-mit-ferrari-logo-preis-nicht-fur/

Barkeeper
I wonder if the agreement allows Ferrari to use the Hasselblad logo and colour scheme on their cars?
Title: Re: Custom camera
Post by: JonathanBenoit on September 28, 2010, 09:50:52 AM
That is why I was wonder in if you could run Phocus on a small electronic gizmo that you could attach to the camera, and get live view on a hand-held, non-tethered camera.

Apparently it was a much-requested feature.

If you tether to...

power the camera, save the camera battery
allow others to view/process/approve the pictures
backup images
send images to a remote customer

...but you still want to be at the camera...  e.g. to adjust composition, then it makes sense, especially if you are using a view camera so you do not have an SLR view-finder.

You may then use the computer screen for fine focusing.

Ya. you'd think that by now they would have implemented into the camera some sort of processor capable of running live view. If they can do what they say they can, they can't be far from an on camera live view. I don't know the technology of it, but it seems like an easy feature to add.

You do want to be at the camera, but I like the sliding back approach and my laptop is right beside my camera anyways. I'll change my mind of course when I can touch any spot on my large db lcd and bring up a liveview in 100%.
Title: Re: Custom camera
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 28, 2010, 09:55:53 AM
Ya. you'd think that by now they would have implemented into the camera some sort of processor capable of running live view. If they can do what they say they can, they can't be far from an on camera live view. I don't know the technology of it, but it seems like an easy feature to add.

You do want to be at the camera, but I like the sliding back approach and my laptop is right beside my camera anyways. I'll change my mind of course when I can touch any spot on my large db lcd and bring up a liveview in 100%.

Hi Jonathon,

The CCD is not capable of producing a Live Video image on the back of the camera.  This would need a change to CMOS technology.

David

Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: JonathanBenoit on September 28, 2010, 09:57:22 AM
David,

So is this new feature that shows a preview when tethered really just the previously captured image from the computer?

Edit: I'm getting the suspicion that now the captured image shows on the LCD as well as the computer where is didnt before. The Aptus-II series already does this.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: JonathanBenoit on September 28, 2010, 09:59:29 AM
Also, I understand that is the often supplied reason for no live view, but if a computer can do it and it only costs $1000 why cant a similar computing device be integrated into the back to provide live view?
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: James R Russell on September 28, 2010, 12:35:09 PM

snip
I have decided to write a brief round up with what we announced at Photokina.  Cross posted to Getdpi.

The White one was ordered many times over, even though there is no final decision on availability.  We will have to see.

snip


A few years ago, I would have lobbied for a black H series camera, but today, I think I'd leave it the color as it is.

I know, I know . . . looks aren't suppose to matter but when you pay twice the price of a Canon or Nikon it doesn't hurt that the camera looks different, in fact not that I've ever had a client ask about a specific camera, professional production should look professional.

It's funny but the Canons and Nikons have become so large that sitting them next to a Contax or a Mamiya few people if any really notice the difference, but a Hasselblad, well it "is" a Hasselblad and it does look different.

Maybe that was their plan all along, (David you can answer this).

Regardless and not to start a 35mm vs any format discussion, I've come to the conclusion that for me it's not, probably never will be a one camera world.

Sure the Canons and Nikons shoot great and in some low light and fast imagery even better than medium format, but in more controlled circumstances they don't.

Last year I shot probably 90% of our work with a dslr, this year a reversal where about 75%  is medium format.  Some because the look is just different, some because in commercial work we do so much in post, some because the software is now more stable, but mostly because it just gives the retouchers more to work with and at that point size does matter, no matter what  the final reproduction size is.

Obviously the idea, the final image is what counts, but our industry, heck all business is under incredible competitive pressure and today every edge helps, even looks.

Anyway, I'm probably not in the market for a Ferrari red medium format camera, but I would suggest they keep it grey. 

(The white one is pretty though.)

JR

P.S.  David do you have any comparisons of 800 iso with the h4d 40 vs the 31mpx?

Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: BJL on September 28, 2010, 12:43:50 PM
It does seem that Live View is a Holy Grail for DMF, both in desirability and unobtainability.
Also, I understand that is the often supplied reason for no live view, but if a computer can do it and it only costs $1000 why cant a similar computing device be integrated into the back to provide live view?
I think you should trust David on this one! Or otherwise read the history of CCD's, which will tell you that the Full Frame type of CCD used in MF so far does not have the wiring needed for fast direct read-out of pixels or for selective read out of some pixels to get a higher frame rate, lower res. option. These sensors cannot do video, no matter how much computing power you attach to them.

In fact, video camera usage was exactly why the interline type of CCD was invented, and interline is the type of CCD in all the small sensor digicams that have had live view forever. In principal, MF could change to interline CCD's with video capabilities (Kodak makes interline CCD's, though not in MF sizes). But interline CCD's have more noise, less well capacity and thus overall lower IQ than Full Frame CCD (at least this is what I see when comparing Kodak CCD options), and David is right in saying that the only practical way to add Live View to MF is to change to (active pixel) CMOS sensors.

The perennial question is whether any sensor makes can make a profit creating CMOS sensor designs larger than 36x24mm and of sufficiently high resolution for the tiny MF back market.
Hints:
(1) no sensor maker has done it, despite years of hopes and predictions in the forums.
(2) it now seems that Sony's sensor division is struggling to profit even in the far larger market (about 100 times the unit sales, so at least ten times the revenues) for 36x24mm sensors.

Large but very low resolution CMOS sensor panels for X-rays, telescopes and such, often with visible join lines between multiple sensor chips butted together, do not count, as the IQ is unsatisfactory for MF.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: paulmoorestudio on September 28, 2010, 01:13:37 PM

(The white one is pretty though.)

JR




you fashion dudes crack me up..cant resist a little bling, white is this years gold!


Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: James R Russell on September 28, 2010, 02:30:25 PM
.cant resist a little bling, white is this years gold!





No gold is this years gold, white is the new black, at least when it comes to buying an Audi.

Anyway, I doubt if I'll buy a white camera, but I think it's funny, everyone wanted a black blad, but when you think about it, if it looked like a cheaper camera, then it didn't have the bling of a blad.

(I think that rhymes).

JR
Title: Re: Custom camera
Post by: Dick Roadnight on September 28, 2010, 02:53:06 PM
Hi Jonathon,

The CCD is not capable of producing a Live Video image on the back of the camera.  This would need a change to CMOS technology.

David
¿Is the CCD not capable of producing colour images faster than on or two a second?

The camera+computer can produce monochrome live view ... would it be possible to display this on the camera back at how many frame per second?

We appreciate that Hasselblads are about top quality still images that cannot be produced with CCD technology.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: BJL on September 28, 2010, 05:29:41 PM
¿Is the CCD not capable of producing colour images faster than on or two a second? ... would it be possible to display this on the camera back at how many frame per second?
Same fps: the limitation is that essentially a FF type CCD must read-out of every photosite, one [or up to four] at a time; no skipping, little room for parallelization.

P. S. This description might be useful: http://ezinearticles.com/?Frame-Transfer-and-Interline-CCD-Electronic-Shutter-in-CCDs&id=432404
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 29, 2010, 03:00:31 AM


(The white one is pretty though.)

JR

P.S.  David do you have any comparisons of 800 iso with the h4d 40 vs the 31mpx?



Yes it is.  ;)

Most likely.  Ill dig them out after the Post Photokina Fallout.

I would say the 40 is one stop better than the 31 if that makes sense.  It would probably be good to shoot the same scene with both cameras to be fair.

D
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 29, 2010, 03:02:05 AM

No gold is this years gold, white is the new black, at least when it comes to buying an Audi.

Anyway, I doubt if I'll buy a white camera, but I think it's funny, everyone wanted a black blad, but when you think about it, if it looked like a cheaper camera, then it didn't have the bling of a blad.

(I think that rhymes).

JR

I have an image of a black H lined up with Mamiya, Nikon, Canon etc etc black offerings.  I have to say, the H just does not look right.  Anyway, I am probably used to its normal clothing.

Japan always loved White cars... slowly creeping in here in the UK too.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 29, 2010, 03:02:47 AM
Same fps: the limitation is that essentially a FF type CCD must read-out of every photosite, one [or up to four] at a time; no skipping, little room for parallelization.

Indeed.  Plus you would need a pretty meaty processor in camera to display a pretty worthless live video.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: Dustbak on September 29, 2010, 04:20:16 AM
Japan always loved White cars... slowly creeping in here in the UK too.

White cars was last years trend for the nouveau riche over here. The white Range Rovers,X5/6, Cayennes & Panamera's were in short supply.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: arashm on September 29, 2010, 08:36:46 AM
Hi David
Yes if you have a few minutes and can get a 31 and 40 to do some side by side ISO testing, that would be really helpful.
thank you in advance.
am
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: amsp on September 29, 2010, 02:10:05 PM
I have an image of a black H lined up with Mamiya, Nikon, Canon etc etc black offerings.

Post it please, I'm curious.

Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: BJNY on September 29, 2010, 02:18:24 PM
We announced and showed the new HC50II and HC120II.  Both of these lenses have been completely redesigned optically.  The exterior dimensions are the same.

Performance on the 50 is much improved and in particular with the HTS.  Lens Correction calculations have already been made and are included in Phocus 2.6.

The HCD120II lens has an increase in resolution and an improvement in axial chromatic aberration.

Availability and pricing, please.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 30, 2010, 02:43:30 AM
Hi David
Yes if you have a few minutes and can get a 31 and 40 to do some side by side ISO testing, that would be really helpful.
thank you in advance.
am


Hi Am,

Take a look here...

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpost.php?p=250058&postcount=6

Some excellent comments regarding a user's comments on his experience of both sensors.  I agree 100%.

I will try to see if we can get some direct comparisons.

D

Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 30, 2010, 02:45:33 AM
Availability and pricing, please.

Price list is coming out over the next few days and I will check on availability.

David

Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: gazwas on September 30, 2010, 05:47:07 AM
Hi David.

Sorry to be a bit off topic but while we're talking about sensor differences, is the Kodak chip in the H4D-50(MS) the same as the H3DII-50 or has there been improvements?

Thanks, Gareth.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: hubell on September 30, 2010, 09:00:25 AM
David, the Fuji version of the H has always been black. My recollection is that it looked damn good.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 30, 2010, 09:49:42 AM
Hi David.

Sorry to be a bit off topic but while we're talking about sensor differences, is the Kodak chip in the H4D-50(MS) the same as the H3DII-50 or has there been improvements?

Thanks, Gareth.

Hi Gareth,

Its exactly the same.

D

Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on September 30, 2010, 09:50:16 AM
Availability and pricing, please.

HC50II = €2990

HC120II = €3420

Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: MNG on October 05, 2010, 05:58:09 AM
Hi David,

what are the options to power a H4D40 or 50 on a view camera if you do not want or can not tether to a laptop?
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 05, 2010, 07:05:23 AM
Hi David,

what are the options to power a H4D40 or 50 on a view camera if you do not want or can not tether to a laptop?

This has proved a popular solution...

https://store.hotwire-digital.com/products.php?product=HD%252b-FireWire-power
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: JonathanBenoit on October 05, 2010, 08:32:50 AM
This has proved a popular solution...

https://store.hotwire-digital.com/products.php?product=HD%252b-FireWire-power

This is something that has to be addressed by hasselblad. Not having a battery to power the back is a big issue for me.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: Dustbak on October 05, 2010, 09:03:36 AM
You can also use the imagebank II which is the Hasselblad solution. The other solution is much cheaper which is why people are also using that.

BTW, I am selling an Imagebank II which I don't use anymore...
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: JonathanBenoit on October 05, 2010, 09:37:05 AM
This is something that has to be addressed by hasselblad. Not having a battery to power the back is a big issue for me.

Sorry, Let me clarify. I meant a tethered power solution that is reliable. Because some macbooks have limited firewire power, there can be insufficient power to the back.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: John R Smith on October 05, 2010, 09:49:26 AM
Another possibility from Hasselblad is the CFV-39 (and now the CFV-50) DBs, which are battery powered and can be used on a view camera with a V-system adaptor.

John
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: Dustbak on October 05, 2010, 09:52:28 AM
Or a CF/CFMS back, which I had for sale... :)
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: Dick Roadnight on October 05, 2010, 11:48:22 AM
Hi David,

what are the options to power a H4D40 or 50 on a view camera if you do not want or can not tether to a laptop?

This has proved a popular solution...

https://store.hotwire-digital.com/products.php?product=HD%252b-FireWire-power

Hi, David...

Did I see something about a battery option for the H4D-60, or did I imagine it or misinterpret something?
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 06, 2010, 02:30:32 AM
Sorry, Let me clarify. I meant a tethered power solution that is reliable. Because some macbooks have limited firewire power, there can be insufficient power to the back.

Hi Jonathon,

It isn't actually a limited power issue. There is nothing wrong with the power output per se from any of the Macbooks. Ie There is enough watts to power the camera.

The issue is that part of the signal that maintains the firewire connection can suddenly drop, thus breaking the connection. We have been looking into this into a lot of detail along with Apple - so it's good we have their attention.

Suffice to say it doesn't seem to affect all users so it is a strange 'feature' of the Macs.

To cure it until Apple come up with a solution then use a FireWire repeaters or something like the Lindy FW800 cable with a built in repeater. As these contain additional firewire circuits it seems to prevent the signal drop.

David. 
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 06, 2010, 02:32:07 AM
Hi, David...

Did I see something about a battery option for the H4D-60, or did I imagine it or misinterpret something?

Yes Dick,

The H4D60 casing has been redesigned to accommodate this.

You will see that the flash sync connections are now on the base and there are 4 screw points which a battery caddy can be fixed.

I hope to have one of these for testing soon and will post some pictures.

D

Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: nad54 on October 06, 2010, 03:09:51 AM
Hi David

Can you clarify this. Is there going to be someway to attach an external battery to the back. Could this work for my H4D 50?

Andrew
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: jorisvm on October 06, 2010, 03:51:45 AM
?
https://store.hotwire-digital.com/products.php?product=HD%252b-FireWire-power
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: JV on October 06, 2010, 07:52:57 AM
David,

A few questions about the H4D-31:

1) is there an official $ price yet?  I have read $13,312 but I am not sure whether that is just a calculated price or the official one.
2) can the body be bought without the lens?
3) if not could the standard 80mm lens be replaced with another lens adding the more cost of that lens to the kit price?

Thanks, Joris.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: Dick Roadnight on October 06, 2010, 08:07:33 AM
Yes Dick,

The H4D60 casing has been redesigned to accommodate this.

You will see that the flash sync connections are now on the base and there are 4 screw points which a battery caddy can be fixed.

I hope to have one of these for testing soon and will post some pictures.

D



Thank you David...

Please  clarify... the battery pack attaches to the H4D-60 digiback (so it could be used untethered on a view camera). If it attached to the camera, then it would work with all H4Ds.

Would this also help with the Mac power problem, when tethered?

The H4D-60 was the obvious choice for landscape and architectural photography, with the high res and the fill, recover and clarify tools in Phocus, with the one reservation that we did not know (until now) that we will be able to use it powered by an attached power pack.

Is there a product designation for the digiback without the "point-and-shoot-adapter"?, and is the back available without it?
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 06, 2010, 03:20:41 PM
Thank you David...

Please  clarify... the battery pack attaches to the H4D-60 digiback (so it could be used untethered on a view camera). If it attached to the camera, then it would work with all H4Ds.

Would this also help with the Mac power problem, when tethered?

The H4D-60 was the obvious choice for landscape and architectural photography, with the high res and the fill, recover and clarify tools in Phocus, with the one reservation that we did not know (until now) that we will be able to use it powered by an attached power pack.

Is there a product designation for the digiback without the "point-and-shoot-adapter"?, and is the back available without it?

Before we go further....

Point and Shoot (No offence to Holga)

(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/dgrover/holga-camera.jpg)

H4D

(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k70/dgrover/h4d.jpg)

The battery fits underneath the digital back of the H4D60.  The H4D60 is a different design to previous products.

If you read my post you will see I said that the FireWire issue is not a power problem.  Therefore the presence or not of a battery would make no difference.

The H4D60 is only available as an H4D60.

David



Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 06, 2010, 03:22:48 PM
Hi David

Can you clarify this. Is there going to be someway to attach an external battery to the back. Could this work for my H4D 50?

Andrew

Correct, but this is only for the H4D60 as it has been redesigned to accommodate this.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 06, 2010, 03:24:13 PM
David,

A few questions about the H4D-31:

1) is there an official $ price yet?  I have read $13,312 but I am not sure whether that is just a calculated price or the official one.
2) can the body be bought without the lens?
3) if not could the standard 80mm lens be replaced with another lens adding the more cost of that lens to the kit price?

Thanks, Joris.

1) Official price is €9995.  This includes the 80mm lens or the CF lens adapter to use V system lenses.

2) You cannot buy the body without a lens.

3) This would be at the discretion of the dealer you were buying from.
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: arashm on October 06, 2010, 04:47:36 PM
David
would you know what the USD price is on the H4D-31?
thank you
am
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: BrendanStewart on October 06, 2010, 05:08:12 PM
David
would you know what the USD price is on the H4D-31?
thank you
am
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/736664-REG/Hasselblad_70480522_H4D_31_Medium_Format_DSLR.html
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: arashm on October 06, 2010, 05:37:12 PM
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/736664-REG/Hasselblad_70480522_H4D_31_Medium_Format_DSLR.html

You know,I'm a bit surprised
I was hoping this kit was goingmto be priced around $10-$12k,
Make it a really attractive entry point.
At this price one may as well add the extra $4k in and go up to the H4D-40.
But hey just IMHO
Thanks
Am
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: JV on October 06, 2010, 09:12:42 PM
if you already have the standard 80mm lens then the difference is indeed only $4K
I also noticed that the H3DII-31 has been discontinued by B&H in the meanwhile...
so the H4D-31 is now the cheapest Hasselblad offering
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: BrendanStewart on October 06, 2010, 11:21:28 PM
You know,I'm a bit surprised
I was hoping this kit was goingmto be priced around $10-$12k,
Make it a really attractive entry point.
At this price one may as well add the extra $4k in and go up to the H4D-40.
But hey just IMHO
Thanks
Am

Yeah, i guess i understand both positions.

From the clients perspective, they are like, well, the H3DII-31 was just 10K. So why not the H4D31?

From Hasselblad's perspective, the H4D is newer, has a longer support life, and has new features.

So it's tough. I was really hoping to upgrade to the H4D31, but it doesn't seem like there will be a upgrade path for H3DII-31 users. :(
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: john milich on October 07, 2010, 12:34:54 PM
David: can you give us a realistic update for delivery of the H4D-60?

I know you have had one to play with and one has been written about on this forum.

Last we heard was a late august date: but for only a very few cameras?

thnx

jm
Title: Re: Photokina Roundup from Hasselblad
Post by: David Grover / Phase One on October 07, 2010, 01:47:44 PM
David: can you give us a realistic update for delivery of the H4D-60?

I know you have had one to play with and one has been written about on this forum.

Last we heard was a late august date: but for only a very few cameras?

thnx

jm

Hi John,

We have been delivering for quite some time now. There was a delay in production through September but all is normal now.

David