Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: tom b on September 14, 2010, 08:54:31 pm
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Michael wrote:
"Over the years there have been only a handful of seminal cameras. The Pentax Spotmatic, Nikon F, Olympus Pen F, Leica M3, Hasselblad 500C, and Canon T90 come to mind, as do the digital Nikon D1 and Canon D30. Each incorporated either a technology, or a design feature, or a price point that made it stand out at the time, and which ensured its place in photographic equipment history."
(No need to send me other camera names. There are a great many deserving – I just selected a few that came quickly to mind.)
With that in mind I thought that I should ask the huddled masses out there in LuLa land what they think. We don't need Michael to contribute to this topic.
Some off the top of my head.
• Polaroid Land Camera Model 95 – first
• Leica CL – First affordable Leica, compact and with built-in metering
• Olympus OM1 – a very nice compact SLR
• Nikon 990 digicam – first quality/affordable digicam
• Canon EOS 300D – first DSLR offered under US$1000
What do you think are seminal cameras?
Cheers,
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Canon Pelix--first to use pellicle mirror
Graflex Speed graphic--an icon that needs no intorduction
Miranda Sensomat--first to feature a removeable pentarism
Mamiya C330--affordable medium format with interchangeable lenses
Kodak disc camera--a dud, but nevertheless unique
Pentax 110 SLR--interchangeable lenses and even a motor winder in a 110 size camera
I'd better stop now, before I really date myself.
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Topcon RE?
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Kodak disc camera--a dud, but nevertheless unique
My Mom loved that camera. What a piece of crap.
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Minox Rega – really small.
Cheers,
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Nikon F
Pentax K-1000
Hassy 500 CM
Nikon F3
Canon T90
Canon ELPH
Canon EOS1
Canon D60
Canon 1Ds
Phase One P25
Nikon D700
Canon 5D MkII
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Nikon D90 – first DSLR with movies.
On another thought, I was thinking, do we buy seminal cameras or do we wait until someone gets the new concept right?
In the case of the Pentax Spotmatic I bought one because they got the camera right and the price right.
In the case of the Olympus OM1 they got the camera right but I waited until Nikon brought out the Nikon FE and I grabbed one of them.
Cheers,
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Miranda Sensomat--first to feature a removeable pentarism
I'd better stop now, before I really date myself.
Let me join you: Oh, that Miranda!
Dated enough?
Rob C
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Canon AE-1 - first camera with a computer inside.
Canon 1Ds - the camera that killed medium format film.
Canon 5D mkII - the camera that brought film quality video to the masses and has probably killed the 1Ds line in the studio/fashion/landscape world due to having the same size sensor and megapixels as the 1Ds for the first time but at a fraction of the price.
Panasonic G1 - First successful EVF.
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Kodak disc camera--a dud, but nevertheless unique
My Mom loved that camera. What a piece of crap.
The Kodak disc was my first ever camera - I think I was about 8 when it was given to me. When your 8 and get your first camera it doesn't matter what it is - you loved it to death. A death came quickly to my Kodak Disc - one trip to the beach, a few grains of sand and that was all she wrote for that camera. I think I only ever shot about 6 'discs'; and shortly after mine died you could no longer buy them or the 'discs'. It was a complete POS - but, for me, has great nostalgic value ;D
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Brownie
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Agfa Clack (1954-1965):
Bent film "plane" to have the film in the sharpest area of the meniscus lens,
a swing in lens for focal distances from 1-3 meters,
a built in yellow filter and
6*9 cm huge negatives on 120 Film.
It was the last in the series of Agfa Box cameras.
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Minolta XK (1971) - first professional eleectronic SLR (just get one;-)
Minolta 7000 (1985) - first autofocus SLR system camera
Contax S (1949) — the first pentaprism SLR
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Let's not forget the Exakta!
Another 'first'. First slr, 1936.
Film winder properly positioned on the left side; shutter on the front left; guaranteed DOF preview every single time the shutter is pressed down; interchangeable waist or pentaprism finder...
Never owned one but kept borrowing my older cousin's mid-60's model. I had a Yashica J-35 at the time, still have it.
Jean-Michel
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Brownie
I think that is the winner...
Steve
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Timothy O'Sullivan's 16x20" wet-plate monster camera that he carried to remote parts of the Western U.S. in a covered wagon over non-existent roads in the 19th century. The 16x20" contact prints from that beast are stunning. I have to wonder how many of his glass plates broke before he could get them back to civilization.
Eric
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Timothy O'Sullivan's 16x20" wet-plate monster camera that he carried to remote parts of the Western U.S. in a covered wagon over non-existent roads in the 19th century. The 16x20" contact prints from that beast are stunning. I have to wonder how many of his glass plates broke before he could get them back to civilization.
Eric
OOOH...That reminds me
Polaroid 20x24 camera..definitely unique. I had the pleasure of making an exposure on it once.
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The Hasselblad 500C (1957)
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First auto exposure SLR - Konica Autoreflex. They also produced first motorized auto advance SLR, the FS-1.
Minolta Talker, first talking camera.
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My list is biassed, being my first three cameras
Kodak Brownie (6x9 medium format for the masses!)
Kodak Instamatic: for its day, a big jump in portability and kid-friendly convenience (easier film loading than that Brownie!)
Pentax K-1000: the affordable "gateway SLR" for many, many people.
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Perhaps:
Widelux FI – swinging lens panorama camera.
Cheers,
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Isn't it sad that for decades Minolta was the first in innovation but now no longer exist. I'm sure there are many other manufacturers names that could be added to that particular list, true innovators who just couldn't adapt (an interesting contradiction) and fell by the roadside.
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Why on earth has nobody mentioned the Rolleiflex TLR yet? The mainstay of so many pro fashion, portrait and press photographers right through the 1940s, 1950s and early 60s.
John
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Hi John
Indeed! I even owned one for some years - an old T model (Rolleiflex-Ford?) - but it wasn't really seminal, in that sense, more a substitute Hasselblad that had its own distinction in my mind, that of having 'arrived' as a photographer the day you could walk into the shop and write the cheque. (That is a basic definition of the word naïve.) That the Rollei was a better camera for exterior hand-held work didn't come into it at the time - only after purchase did the funny trick of mirror bounce introduce itself into our lives!
Buy yes, I do wish I had eventually bought one of those last models, with or without the Helmut Newton logo, much as I regret never having bought myself an M Leica - I never was attracted to their slr cameras. I do think that I would have hung on to the Leica regardless of what might have followed career-wise.
Rob C
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What about the huddled masses. The Kodak instamatic comes to mind here.
Cheers,
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Olympus Pen FT - half frame - silky smooth and cost effective - 1969 vintage
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Canon D30, the first affordable high quality dslr.
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Contax RTS and 645. Just beautiful.
And Bronica Etrsi, Sq1, 6x7. Stunning lenses, criminally underrated IMHO.
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Contax RTS and 645. Just beautiful.
And Bronica Etrsi, Sq1, 6x7. Stunning lenses, criminally underrated IMHO.
Then you had better arrest me: had one Bronica, the 6x7 GS-1, with a 50mm, 100mm and 250mm when I made the huge mistake of listening to my stock library telling me about the massive advantages of 6x7 compared with 6x6. I betrayed two venerable 'blads that had served me over two decades to get that pile of crap. Boy, did I pay the penalty.
Rob C
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And Bronica Etrsi, Sq1, 6x7. Stunning lenses, criminally underrated IMHO.
I'm with Rob on this one....Toss up for the worst camera I ever owned..Bronica or Kowa 6
I think the Kowa has the edge here...I'm not sure I can recall a single really sharp frame from that camera..
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Have to defend poor old (deceased) Bronica here. I had 645's (plural), 6x6's and a 6x7. Variety of lenses and not a bad one amongst them. The 645 lenses were especially impressive. I replaced the 645 with a Rollei system and regretted it after about a week, when the body fell apart for the first (of several) time/s. Followed that with an RZ and my 110 lens promptly fell apart! But I'm not going to diss Rollei or Mamiya. I was unlucky - they're still great cameras. I knew a builder who bought a new Rolls Royce. Nothing but trouble. Used to carry bags of cement in the boot, he was so pissed off with it. Doesn't make Rollers bad cars.
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Rollers.
Doesn't make them good ones either; they serve a very different purpose, and transport is way down the list.
But regarding the cameras - they are currently all flawed in one way or another. Was a time one could buy (and get!) pretty much anything off the shelf and it would do what it said on the box; then, final inspection became a step too expensive and the client took on the rôle, not that he knew that, of course.
The Bronica 100mm was reasonable; the worst of the three focal lengths I mentioned was the 50mm, which shouldn't really have surprised me. But even the body was flawed, and that was brand new, as were the optics: the MU did not function one single time.
Rob C
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- they are currently all flawed in one way or another. Was a time one could buy (and get!) pretty much anything off the shelf and it would do what it said on the box; then, final inspection became a step too expensive and the client took on the rôle, not that he new that, of course.
Rob C
Agree with you there, Rob. These days it's essential to compare copies of any lens you buy, no matter who the maker is. And the range of quality from copy to copy can be breathtaking. Sort of ironic now we have robots doing precision assembly in car plants...
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I wonder if in time if the new Leica S2 will be considered a seminal camera. A MF DSLR that has broken with traditional aspect ratios.
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I wonder if in time if the new Leica S2 will be considered a seminal camera. A MF DSLR that has broken with traditional aspect ratios.
Probably by some, but not deserving, IMO
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Perhaps I should have looked even further back: the very first slr that I bought was an Exakta Varex 11a; it came with a wlf and I had to buy a pentaprism separately. At the time, it was about the only player I can remember seeing listed by any of the photographers whose work I would look for in magazines etc. The company also made a cut-down version called the Exa or something similar. The great thing about the Exakta was that it had a blade built in that allowed one to cut the film, which was a boon in the early days when one had to be open to accepting passports as part of the workload... a 35mm cassette cost more than the blasted job could bring in.
How easily one forgets those grim days... or does one? I think they lurk forever in the background, silent warnings of how things can become if care isn't taken to prevent going back there. Alternatively, perhaps the lesson about photography as career choice was never really learned.
Rob C
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Perhaps the Vivitar Clipshot digicam may fit the bill. Stills, video and only $6, yes $6. Has the same resolution as the posts on my web site and blogs. Who needs a 5D mkII?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Dwam6YUU4
Cheers,
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Perhaps:
Widelux FI – swinging lens panorama camera.
Cheers,
Most definitely.
Another little gem: the Olympus XA. Helluva little itty bitty camera.
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c2023 - RED.................................? ;D
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another vote for the Brownie, plastic 6x6, just because it was my first, age 10 ish. Still have pics of my friends
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Rusty, why are you taking in vain the name of my venerable old Ford?
Rob C
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Back on topic. I just saw a write up of the FinePix REAL 3D W3 camera. It does 2D, 3D and 3D HD video. Could be a gimmick or perhaps a seminal camera. More information here:
http://www.fujifilm.com.au/products/digital.asp?id=77&pid=1003&sid=1
Cheers,
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Olympus E-10. First foray into the "designed from the ground up" DSLR world. Sort of contemporaneous with the Canon D30.
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Time to dig up an old dog, are there any seminal cameras since 2010?
Just thinking,
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Could I note:
Adjective[edit]
seminal (comparative more seminal, superlative most seminal)
Of or relating to seed or semen.
Creative or having the power to originate.
Highly influential, especially in some original way, and providing a basis for future development or research. quotations ▼
"The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" was a seminal work in the modern philosophy of science.
To be seminal, it has to create a new direction that was followed in future developments, not just that it is "good". The OM-1 was seminal because it launched compact SLR's, the OM-4 wasn't, even if it was a better camera.
So I think it's safe to say that the Pentax 110 SLR was not seminal, and I doubt it is reasonable to say that a Lecia is seminal purely for being affordable "for a Leica". The original Leica was seminal because it launched the popularity of 35mm, otoh...
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Kodak's original Box Brownie camera, 100 round photos, brought photography to the masses.
For me, the Argus C-3, Rollieflex and the Veriwide 100.
The Argus from my neighbor in 7th or 8th grade got me started in 35mm. The Rollie came from a hock shop while in high school and got me into higher quality. Inbetween, a Miranda DR that took my first paying images 3 days after buying of my high school burning down (no, it was electrical on the 71 year old building :-). The Veriwide came as a senior in H.S. It "widened" my horizon in shooting that I still use nearly 50 years later...
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Maybe the Sony Alpha a7R II, it sure got LuLa photographers salivating.
Cheers,
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Brownie
Yep. Mine used 127 film. My mom bought it in the UK c. 1963. Everything since then has been icing. :D
-Dave-
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As a collector/user who has photo gear going back to the 1840s, I'll take a stab at it.
1. Giroux sliding box camera, 1839. The first commercially available camera (generally made Daguerrotypes.)
2. " Mousetrap" cameras, 1839, invented by Henry Fox Talbot. (Made calotype/salt prints.)
3. Lewis camera 1851, first camera with a bellows (generally used in wet plate photography.)
4. Dallmeyer stereo camera (1861), first successful commercially available twin lens camera, really got the stereoview genre rolling.
5. Graflex (Folmer & Schwing), 1898, first camera with high speed focal plane shutter (1/500s, 1/1000s). A true breakthough!
6. Kodak Brownie, 1900, introduced photography to the masses
7. Kodak Vest Pocket, 1912, first successful pocket sized folding camera, favored by several early explorers
8. Leica (invented 1913, produced in 1924), a quality pocket sized camera taking 35mm film. Interchangeable lenses 1933. Latest generation still in production.
9. Kine Exacta, 1936, (35mm), introduced the form most cameras still use today, interchangeable lenses
10. Hassleblad 500C, 1959, small sized professional camera with Zeiss interchangeable lenses
11. Nikon F, 1959, revolutionized camera design (a form still most common today.)
12. Topcon RE Super, 1962, first mass produced camera with TTL metering
13. Polaroid SX-70, 1968, first camera with autofocus
14. Kodak DCS, 1991, first commercially produced digital pro camera
15. Canon EOS D30, 2000, first popular DSLR
16. Hassleblad HD1, 2004, first dedicated MF digital camera.
I own several of the above cameras, and they are just as exciting to use now as when the original owner had them!
Kent in SD
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Time to dig up an old dog, are there any seminal cameras since 2010?
Just thinking,
Yep, seminal cameras, the Nikon D810 DSLR must have had medium format camera manufacturers very worried.
The Nikon D850 is just adding to their woes.
Maybe Sony (https://www.dpreview.com/news/1171953770/sony-s-sensor-roadmap-includes-150mp-medium-format-chip-for-2018) is their saviour.
Cheers,
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I believe that the Canon 1Ds should belong to these list.
I find it much more significant than the D30.
As far as recent cameras go, the original Sony a7 is the one I would point out. The a7rII and other a7 variants are just minor upgrades in the grand scheme of things.
Cheers,
Bernard
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I believe that the Canon 1Ds should belong to these list.
I find it much more significant than the D30.
As far as recent cameras go, the original Sony a7 is the one I would point out. The a7rII and other a7 variants are just minor upgrades in the grand scheme of things.
Cheers,
Bernard
Second the Canon 1Ds, at Au$17,000 for the body it was aspirational. Pro photographers sucked every Mp out of it.
Cheers,
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Can't, off the top of my head, remember the year I bought, but it was definitely post '09 and, stretching the date by a couple of hundred days, I'd put the D700 up there: many of the best features of the then kings, and at an affordable price, relatively speaking.
For me, other than the attraction of, per se, a Leica digital M, not much I'd think of trading that D700 for insofar as my current needs are concerned. Even were I rich, only the Leica would join the rest of the gang, with an EVF and a 90mm lens.
Rob
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The one camera that changed my life was the Rollei 35...my everywhere third eye.
Peter
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Seminal cameras since 2010? I’ll pick a Camera I’ve never owned: the Panasonic GF1. It’s been copied many times since launch. I’d also agree with the suggestion of the Sony A7RII. Never before had so much resolution been crammed into something that, thanks to the electronic shutter tech, could be easily used hand-held. Oh, and a camera I do still own and use: the Ricoh GR.
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What about the Pentax Spotmatic?
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/458912078_c2b86afce3.jpg)
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There are seminal cameras that are as such on a personal level and others that are as such on an industry changing level. The latter are fewer and further apart than the former.
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There are seminal cameras that are as such on a personal level and others that are as such on an industry changing level. The latter are fewer and further apart than the former.
100% correct...Seminal has to be relative state.
Peter
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The seminal cameras of today strike me as the ones that are doing computational photography. The dual lens phones, the light-field cameras, that kind of thing.
These are not simply iterations and improvements on things we already know about, these are fundamentally new ways of taking pictures in the same way that the digital sensor was a new way. Of course, if computational photography fizzles out, they won't have been seminal, but I do not think that is going to happens. We're going to see focus, depth of field, and lighting itself moved into a post-exposure phase, at least in consumer "I just want pictures" photography, and it appears to be happening now.
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I believe from the digital age the Panasonic LX100 deserves to be mentioned because of its lens?
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The Nikon S2 changed the way that we in the States thought about Japanese cameras. Or did that start with DDD and Nikon lenses on his Leicas?
Mike Collette's Dicomeds changed the way we thought about digital image quality.
Jim
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Another great set of videos. Thanks
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Yep. (Box Brownie) Mine used 127 film. My mom bought it in the UK c. 1963. Everything since then has been icing. :D
-Dave-
First camera I ever used, so for me, it's seminal. I recall photographing my mom with one when I was probably 10. I can still remember the feel of that big plastic shutter button.
Second seminal camera for me was mentioned both by Michael and another poster: the Pentax Spotmatic. First SLR with TTL metering. I owned probably half a dozen over the years. I still have one.
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First camera I ever used, so for me, it's seminal. I recall photographing my mom with one when I was probably 10. I can still remember the feel of that big plastic shutter button.
Second seminal camera for me was mentioned both by Michael and another poster: the Pentax Spotmatic. First SLR with TTL metering. I owned probably half a dozen over the years. I still have one.
Had that been a Nikon F, it would have never have had to be replaced during an amateur's shooting life.
:-)
Rob
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Had that been a Nikon F, it would have never have had to be replaced during an amateur's shooting life.
:-)
Rob
I still have mine...works, but hasn't seen action in many years.
Peter
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I still have mine...works, but hasn't seen action in many years.
Peter
Peter, mine worked for years alongside an F2 Photomic (sans batteries - no idea why I bought that prism) until I traded everything away, 'blads included, to go totally 6x7, the dumbest decision I ever made. I have already 'fessed up to it being my first bout of male menopause. Wish it had been my last.
:-(
Rob
P.S. What does one call post-menopausal male mistakes? Knowing a short, convenient handle would help communication a lot. It could even go on a rear vanity plate, cops here permitting. Which after thirty something years, one local one did not. Mother. Can't afford the risk - probably sees me every day.
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Had that been a Nikon F, it would have never have had to be replaced during an amateur's shooting life.
:-)
Rob
Never had one fail, despite horrendous abuse including multiple motorcycle tours of Indonesia and Asia. Two were stolen. One was left on the roof of my vehicle when I drove away. Never seen again. One I gave to a relative. The last one sits here in a drawer, in pristine condition, but lost and lonely, the neglected child in the family, forsaken by its guardian who has new favourite children; the D800 twins. :)
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Never had one fail, despite horrendous abuse including multiple motorcycle tours of Indonesia and Asia. Two were stolen. One was left on the roof of my vehicle when I drove away. Never seen again. One I gave to a relative. The last one sits here in a drawer, in pristine condition, but lost and lonely, the neglected child in the family, forsaken by its guardian who has new favourite children; the D800 twins. :)
Were you ever able to get insured?
:-)
Rob
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Rob
P.S. What does one call post-menopausal male mistakes? Knowing a short, convenient handle would help communication a lot. It could even go on a rear vanity plate, cops here permitting. Which after thirty something years, one local one did not. Mother. Can't afford the risk - probably sees me every day.
The man with the shield always sees...
Peter
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The man with the shield always sees...
Peter
At the end of the 40s I remember reading a comic which carried the slogan: Commit a crime and the world is made of glass.
I think it was a DC publication - some Dick Tracy-like detective rubbish that was doing the clandestine rounds at school. So yeah, even those were moralising...
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Were you ever able to get insured?
:-)
Rob
Not a chance. :) Fortunately, I never had to own my own money-making gear.
All of those Pentaxes (Pentacies?) were either for learning (in the early days) or recreation.
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The last one sits here in a drawer, in pristine condition, but lost and lonely, the neglected child in the family, forsaken by its guardian who has new favourite children; the D800 twins. :)
I have a pair of D800E (two because I shoot weddings,) and for most things they're my most used camera. However, there are times I prefer my Nikon F3T (or Rolleiflex or Leica IIIc!) For "street" shooting in big cities (most recently Seattle and Chicago) I like the small film cameras best. They don't seem to attract attention and scream "expensive camera", which is not a good thing in big cities with all the bums/addicts loafing around. I always shoot black & white film, usually HP5. The F3T is the quickest to use because of it's accurate TTL meter. It and AiS lenses 28/50/105mm fit in a very small bag. I know an M4/3 camera would work too, but it's more expensive which attracts the attention of bums. I just like the less "sterile" look of HP5 film too.
Kent in SD