Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Computers & Peripherals => Topic started by: SteveKravitz on July 24, 2010, 09:56:11 am

Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: SteveKravitz on July 24, 2010, 09:56:11 am

I'm looking at the following:

1) HP ZR30w: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...1-4194577.html (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...1-4194577.html)

2) HP LP3065: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...1-3297215.html (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en...1-3297215.html)

3) Dell 3007WFP-HC: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...4&sku=222-7175 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...4&sku=222-7175)

4) LG W3000H-Bn: http://www.lg.com/us/computer-produc...tor-W3000H.jsp (http://www.lg.com/us/computer-produc...tor-W3000H.jsp)

Trying to stay in the $1,000 to $1,500 range.

I'm unclear on the technology, but it looks like the ZR30w is H-IPS, while the W3000H, Dell 3007WFP, and HP LP3065 are S-IPS.

Anyone have experience with or knowledge of any of these monitors?

*******************

Info on the panels: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/search.p...S&select=panel (http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/search.p...S&select=panel)
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: Jack Flesher on July 24, 2010, 10:40:17 am
Quote from: SteveKravitz
Trying to stay in the $1,000 to $1,500 range.

Do you want the best 30" monitor or the cheapest?  

IMHO, the best 30" *FOR THE MONEY* is the NEC Spectraview, but it overshoots your budget by ~ 30%
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: SteveKravitz on July 24, 2010, 10:44:26 am
Quote from: Jack Flesher
Do you want the best 30" monitor or the cheapest?  

IMHO, the best 30" *FOR THE MONEY* is the NEC Spectraview, but it overshoots your budget by ~ 30%

Okay, point taken.  Let me rephrase that - the best 30" monitor in the $1000 to $1500 range.  
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: Steve Weldon on July 24, 2010, 11:30:16 am
Quote from: SteveKravitz
Okay, point taken.  Let me rephrase that - the best 30" monitor in the $1000 to $1500 range.  
I reckon my answer is the same as Jacks.. $1000-$1500 is already a considerable investment.. might as well get a product you'll truly enjoy and will do the job adequately.  Even if you have to wait a bit longer to get it..    

Of course I'm assuming you want this for imaging and will want it properly color profiled?  For game playing there are different requirements.

I'm saying this as the thrifty guy I am concerning such things.  My last pair of monitors were with me over seven years and I really had to squeeze my wallet hard to come up with the cash for two NEC Spectraview LCD2690uxi2's.. especially at prices over here..

Which brings up another point.. color profiling.  There 'can' be a bunch of issues using your existing color profiling device and software so you might need to budget for this aspect of things as well.. and the "SV" version of the NEC gives you the best possible combination of hardware/software for profiling at a reasonable "sold as a kit and included" price.  

There's also an included 4 year warranty.. if that's more than the others you listed how much is the extra year or three worth to you?

Sorry to stick my nose in.. money is always a sensitive subject and I understand budgets.. but though this be worth a bit of emphasis.
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: walter.sk on July 24, 2010, 12:06:46 pm
Quote from: Steve Weldon
I reckon my answer is the same as Jacks.. $1000-$1500 is already a considerable investment.. might as well get a product you'll truly enjoy and will do the job adequately.  Even if you have to wait a bit longer to get it..    

Of course I'm assuming you want this for imaging and will want it properly color profiled?  For game playing there are different requirements.

I'm saying this as the thrifty guy I am concerning such things.  My last pair of monitors were with me over seven years and I really had to squeeze my wallet hard to come up with the cash for two NEC Spectraview LCD2690uxi2's.. especially at prices over here..

Sorry to stick my nose in.. money is always a sensitive subject and I understand budgets.. but though this be worth a bit of emphasis.
I second these thoughts.  I have the NEC 3090.  I already had a colorimeter, so I bought the Spectraview profiling software separately.  After using the 3090 for a couple of years, my recommendation would be that if you can't budget for the $1800 or so that it is at B&H or Provantage, then go with the NEC 2690.  I'd rather give up the size and get the higher quality if my budget really could not support the 30" monitor.

Mine really could not, but I bit the bullet and did it anyway.  Now, 2 years later, it doesn't hurt anymore.
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: dseelig on July 26, 2010, 12:01:37 am
I just bought an apple 30 inch monitor refurbed by apple, got on the apple website. . I love it. it was just under 1400 shipped.
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: stevesanacore on July 26, 2010, 12:49:05 am
Quote from: Jack Flesher
Do you want the best 30" monitor or the cheapest?  

IMHO, the best 30" *FOR THE MONEY* is the NEC Spectraview, but it overshoots your budget by ~ 30%


I know the NEC has a great reputation but I thought HP has a brand new monitor with 30bit color?

PALO ALTO, Calif., June 1, 2010 – HP today announced its first 30-inch monitor to display a range of more than 1 billion colors, the HP ZR30w S-IPS LCD Display.

Does anyone know how this monitor compares to the NEC or an EIZO?  I am presently looking for a 30" and saw this today on Gizmodo.

Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: SteveKravitz on July 26, 2010, 01:03:14 am
Quote from: stevesanacore
I know the NEC has a great reputation but I thought HP has a brand new monitor with 30bit color?

PALO ALTO, Calif., June 1, 2010 – HP today announced its first 30-inch monitor to display a range of more than 1 billion colors, the HP ZR30w S-IPS LCD Display.

Does anyone know how this monitor compares to the NEC or an EIZO?  I am presently looking for a 30" and saw this today on Gizmodo.
Uh, look at my #1) link in my OP...
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: degrub on July 26, 2010, 08:48:40 am
Quote from: SteveKravitz
Uh, look at my #1) link in my OP...

dead link

Frank
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: Brad Proctor on July 26, 2010, 09:30:39 am
Quote from: degrub
dead link

Frank

here it is (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-72270-3884471-4194577.html)
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: digitaldog on July 26, 2010, 10:01:30 am
Quote from: stevesanacore
I know the NEC has a great reputation but I thought HP has a brand new monitor with 30bit color?

But even if its 30-bit, without software and a good instrument to take advantage of that data, what’s the point?

This is why so many of us recommend the NEC SpectraView II. When you look at the cost of it, its software and a supported bundled instrument, its actually quite a good deal.
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: stevesanacore on July 26, 2010, 11:40:31 am

The question isn't if the NEC is good or great, we know it's great. The question is if the new HP may be newer technology with an even larger color space. While we are on the subject, how does the NEC compare with the EIZO monitors? I am not talking cost, but performance. I would really love to have a monitor that shows me exactly what I or my clients will get when they print my images.  I am using an Epson 9800 and have been fairly happy with my results using my Apple 23" Cinema Display, but I know it could be much more accurate with a new EIZO or NEC equivalent. And I wonder if anyone has tried the new HP yet?


Is this the model everyone is recommending?

NEC MultiSync 3090W-BK-SV 30" Widescreen LCD Display with Color Calibrator

Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: digitaldog on July 26, 2010, 11:47:33 am
Quote from: stevesanacore
The question isn't if the NEC is good or great, we know it's great. The question is if the new HP may be newer technology with an even larger color space.

The size of the color space is kind of meaningless. Yes, its nice to have an extended gamut display. But like the bogus contrast ratio settings, or the spec’s for how high a display can produce cd/m2, its not useful for the work we do. Having a reference display, one that can be calibrated consistently and to a precise manner is far more important.

I’ve yet to see anything that has proven to me that the Eizo warrants the extra money over the NEC. I’m not saying Eizo doesn’t make a great product. It may be just as good as the NEC, it might be better but the later nor the excessive difference in price has at yet been proven to me. I’m all ears however.

The 3090W-BK-SV 30" Widescreen LCD Display with Color Calibrator is exactly the product some of us are recommending at this time.
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: TimBarker on July 27, 2010, 08:13:11 am
Quote from: digitaldog
The size of the color space is kind of meaningless. Yes, its nice to have an extended gamut display. But like the bogus contrast ratio settings, or the spec’s for how high a display can produce cd/m2, its not useful for the work we do. Having a reference display, one that can be calibrated consistently and to a precise manner is far more important.

I’ve yet to see anything that has proven to me that the Eizo warrants the extra money over the NEC. I’m not saying Eizo doesn’t make a great product. It may be just as good as the NEC, it might be better but the later nor the excessive difference in price has at yet been proven to me. I’m all ears however.

The 3090W-BK-SV 30" Widescreen LCD Display with Color Calibrator is exactly the product some of us are recommending at this time.

is that one of the new PA series or is it older, if older is the PA series any better?  

By the way half way through your book, most enjoyable, well I am a masochist!  Surely to get the best similarity with screen and print then both the printer and screen should have gamuts that encompass similar ranges then with the right control of the screen you should be able to get the screen image to look pretty much the same as the print (I understand the issue of reflective vs emmissive, I think).  It is thus now down to the graphics card or inbuilt electronics in the screen to provide the differences between screen types, after all most of the screens are manufactured in the same plant, are they not.  It's the differences in control electronics that then define the differences between the screens...  Is their any difference in the in-built hardware/software between the Eizo, NEC and HPs?
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: digitaldog on July 27, 2010, 09:21:34 am
Quote from: TimBarker
is that one of the new PA series or is it older, if older is the PA series any better?

The newer PA 30” isn’t out yet. That should be a juicy system.

Quote
Surely to get the best similarity with screen and print then both the printer and screen should have gamuts that encompass similar ranges then with the right control of the screen you should be able to get the screen image to look pretty much the same as the print (I understand the issue of reflective vs emmissive, I think).

The print gamut of so many modern printers, and the gamut of a useful working space for those of us working in raw is so much wider than even the widest gamut display.

Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: Ray on July 27, 2010, 10:37:25 am
Quote from: digitaldog
The newer PA 30” isn’t out yet. That should be a juicy system.



The print gamut of so many modern printers, and the gamut of a useful working space for those of us working in raw is so much wider than even the widest gamut display.

Thanks for clearing that up. In Australia the NEC 30" is described as a multisync monitor with 12 bit gamma and color LUTs. The largest NEC PA is a 27" model with 14 bit gamma and color LUTs , but is still cheaper than the 30". I understand that both models can use the Spectraview II software for direct calibration of the monitor (bypassing the video card).

I wonder how marginal the visual difference between 12 bit and 14 bit is. A 30" monitor with a 2560x1600 resolution must be really impressive.

I think it may be time for me to upgrade from my 19" Sony CRT   .
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: TimBarker on July 29, 2010, 09:28:39 am
Quote from: Ray
Thanks for clearing that up. In Australia the NEC 30" is described as a multisync monitor with 12 bit gamma and color LUTs. The largest NEC PA is a 27" model with 14 bit gamma and color LUTs , but is still cheaper than the 30". I understand that both models can use the Spectraview II software for direct calibration of the monitor (bypassing the video card).

I wonder how marginal the visual difference between 12 bit and 14 bit is. A 30" monitor with a 2560x1600 resolution must be really impressive.

I think it may be time for me to upgrade from my 19" Sony CRT   .

certainly big but the 27" is 2560x1440 so it must have a finer dot pitch if the 30" has the same horizontal resolution.  Still trying to get to see an example of the 27" PA series, seems NEC here in Oz aren't interested in replying to queries on the web...  Might just have to spend more and go Eizo as I won't buy without seeing one.
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: Ray on July 29, 2010, 10:02:12 am
Quote from: TimBarker
certainly big but the 27" is 2560x1440 so it must have a finer dot pitch if the 30" has the same horizontal resolution.  Still trying to get to see an example of the 27" PA series, seems NEC here in Oz aren't interested in replying to queries on the web...  Might just have to spend more and go Eizo as I won't buy without seeing one.

However, the aspect ratio of the 30" is 16:10 as opposed to 16:9 for the PA 27", so vertical resolution is greater at 1600.

2560x1600 is very alluring, but I'm a rather concerned about those 12 bit LUTs. Do I need 14 bit? Can I live with 12 bit or will I become disatisfied?  
Title: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: Steve Weldon on July 29, 2010, 10:53:18 am
Quote from: Ray
However, the aspect ratio of the 30" is 16:10 as opposed to 16:9 for the PA 27", so vertical resolution is greater at 1600.

2560x1600 is very alluring, but I'm a rather concerned about those 12 bit LUTs. Do I need 14 bit? Can I live with 12 bit or will I become disatisfied?  
Pardon me for saying.. but that's borderline defective thinking..

Are you thinking that just because a 14 bit LUT becomes available, every Spectraview II user will suddenly become unhappy with their monitor?

I could have waited a month and bought two PA271w's.. but I opted for the LCD2690uxi2's.   Why?  Because it's an established monitor that's making a lot of people happy.. its something I can depend on.  The PA271w will probably be better.. but we don't know that yet.. we can only look at a spec sheet and guess.

Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: WombatHorror on August 13, 2010, 05:09:12 pm

I know the NEC has a great reputation but I thought HP has a brand new monitor with 30bit color?

PALO ALTO, Calif., June 1, 2010 – HP today announced its first 30-inch monitor to display a range of more than 1 billion colors, the HP ZR30w S-IPS LCD Display.

Does anyone know how this monitor compares to the NEC or an EIZO?  I am presently looking for a 30" and saw this today on Gizmodo.



Well the NEC PA (at least the 24" and 26" so far, if not the 23") are supposed to actually be true 10bits, not 8bit dithered to 10bits. However, I've heard nothing much really drives them at 10bits in a practical way yet. I suppose it still might help a tiny bit since internally it could still use 10bits.
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: WombatHorror on August 13, 2010, 05:13:41 pm
The size of the color space is kind of meaningless. Yes, its nice to have an extended gamut display. But like the bogus contrast ratio settings, or the spec’s for how high a display can produce cd/m2, its not useful for the work we do. Having a reference display, one that can be calibrated consistently and to a precise manner is far more important.

I’ve yet to see anything that has proven to me that the Eizo warrants the extra money over the NEC. I’m not saying Eizo doesn’t make a great product. It may be just as good as the NEC, it might be better but the later nor the excessive difference in price has at yet been proven to me. I’m all ears however.

The 3090W-BK-SV 30" Widescreen LCD Display with Color Calibrator is exactly the product some of us are recommending at this time.

Saying that wide gamut isn't useful for what photographers do is going rather far.
It's makes quite a difference viewing lots of my fall foliage and sunset photos!

Anyway I doubt the HP has a wider gamut than the PA. Most likely equal, but who knows.
The size of the gamut in terms of the way he is thinking has nothing to do with the bit depth anyway. You can have a 6bit AdobeRGB space and 10bit sRGB.

The NEC PA have the same 10bits anyway, but as you say you can't really directly make use of that yet in any practical sort of way.
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: drmatt on January 05, 2011, 04:39:58 am
Hi.  I need a new monitor for photo processing and printing (HP Z3100) and I dont follow monitor trends, so just wondering whether NEC has come out with anything that supercedes the model recommended most in this thread (NEC MultiSync 3090W-BK-SV) since the last post in summer 2010)?  Or whether anyone has recommendations for something of similar quality for less money, or something better for the same money?  Everyone seems really happy with it and I'm sure I would be too, but I figure I may as well get the latest, all else being equal.
Thanks,
Matt
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: hjulenissen on January 05, 2011, 05:22:28 am
Last I heard, PHotoshop does not support 10 bits, Displayport supports 10 bits but due to some bugs vs computer sleep modes it is not really recommended, according to the author of ArgyllCMS 10 bit may not really matter.

The industry tries very hard to make nice numbers and convince us to buy. What will make us happy in the end is quality, stability, things that are hard to stick numbers to.

I have the Dell 2711 27" display. Fairly satisfied, but I have not been able to profile it satisfyingly using Spyder 3. Using it in sRGB emulation mode now.

-h
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: digitaldog on January 05, 2011, 09:56:53 am
just wondering whether NEC has come out with anything that supercedes the model recommended most in this thread (NEC MultiSync 3090W-BK-SV) since the last post in summer 2010)?  Or whether anyone has recommendations for something of similar quality for less money, or something better for the same money? 

The PA series is the newest kid on the block from NEC but no 30” yet. If you wanted a 30”, that still be the 3090. The PA271W is the newer technology but is 27”
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: walter.sk on January 05, 2011, 01:03:09 pm
I don't know if the PA 30" is out yet, but we very recently got the PA241 for my wife and her MAC.  I use the LCD3090 with my PC, and I am spoiled by the ample working area.  However, the measured blackpoint on the 3090, whether calibrated with SpectraviewII and the Eye1Display2 or Colormunki has been between .35 and .4 consistantly with a whitepoint set at 120 c/m2.  The PA241 comes in with a blackpoint at .20-.23, although I'm not sure the difference is that meaningful.  I would assume that the PA30" monitor would also have the better blackpoint.
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: Nill Toulme on January 05, 2011, 04:14:58 pm
Walter, in the FWIW and things-that-make-you-say-"Hmmm..." departments, I've been getting a lower black point on my faithful old 2090uxi since I updated Spectraview II to the latest version.  I was more than a few versions behind.

Nill
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: Highres on January 05, 2011, 05:49:59 pm
The NEC PA301W starts selling here in Australia in the next week or so, I believe it's European release is the same. I assume that the U.S release should also correspond pretty closely.

Warren Macris
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: drmatt on January 05, 2011, 08:18:10 pm
Thanks for info.  My application is largely working with large panoramas, typically over 10,000 pixels wide, often over 100,000, so I think the largest monitor would be useful for me.  I understand the principles of color management, though I still find the practice challenging.  So I'm happy (sort of) to pay for something that I can grow into professionally, but being in Fairbanks I dont have the opportunity to easily check out monitors on my own or try them out, so I really appreciate the advice of this forum.  From an internet search, it seems the PA 30" will be closer to $3000 (versus ~$2000 for the 3090), and I dont have enough expertise to understand whether I would actually be able to make use of this difference, either in my own eye quality or more importantly whether my printer (HP Z3100) will be able to reproduce the advantage.  Considering that many of my prints are 20' long or more, it doesnt take too many mistakes to pay for a better monitor.  That is, personally I'm not so concerned about how many colors I see on the screen but more whether those colors will look the same on the print.  This is the part I've had a hard time finding information on, if anyone has any suggestions or links, I'd really appreciate it.  So in short I guess my question is whether the PA series is going to make an appreciable difference in going from screen to plotter, or whether this is more important for those who need the best purely-digital images. 

BTW, I found this link (and especially many of the links within it) to be especially helpful in understanding the different flavors of IPS for anyone interested  http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/nec_pa241w.htm

-Matt
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: digitaldog on January 05, 2011, 08:22:47 pm
From an internet search, it seems the PA 30" will be closer to $3000 (versus ~$2000 for the 3090), and I dont have enough expertise to understand whether I would actually be able to make use of this difference, either in my own eye quality or more importantly whether my printer (HP Z3100) will be able to reproduce the advantage.

The newest, latest and greatest unit (presumably the new PA30”) is doing to cost a lot more than the previously latest and greatest unit (3090). The 3090 is an excellent unit, its probably priced to move considering a new kid is on the block. IF you want a 30” display, if the new unit is out of your budget, take advantage of the pricing on the last generation.
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: walter.sk on January 06, 2011, 01:23:31 pm
Walter, in the FWIW and things-that-make-you-say-"Hmmm..." departments, I've been getting a lower black point on my faithful old 2090uxi since I updated Spectraview II to the latest version.  I was more than a few versions behind.

Nill
My SpectraviewII is the most recent.
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: DeeJay on January 19, 2011, 07:25:59 pm
My SpectraviewII is the most recent.

Hi Andrew, are you still using the 3090 these days?

Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: digitaldog on January 19, 2011, 07:44:43 pm
Hi Andrew, are you still using the 3090 these days?

I am indeed (and a PA271W).
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: DeeJay on January 20, 2011, 05:27:55 am
I am indeed (and a PA271W).

Nice. Do you think the PA is an improvement?
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: digitaldog on January 20, 2011, 10:49:41 am
Nice. Do you think the PA is an improvement?

I do. Is smaller but just about everything else about it is better. I’ve only had it a little while but its very nice.
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: Erick Boileau on February 01, 2011, 07:45:16 am
Eizo or Quato
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: PhotoNut on February 22, 2011, 04:02:21 am
I have been coveting the NEC MultiSync 3090W. Using it as both a computer and a TV display could “take some of the sting out” of the price tag.  Have you tried using the NEC this way?  I see that it has dual DVI inputs, and suppose I could connect one of them to an HDMI port on my home theater receiver.  Your thoughts?

Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: JTFOTO on March 07, 2011, 06:29:31 pm
Hi There!!

I ma wondering about these NEC's monitors.  THere are two 30" monitors.  The spectra view that is an older technology with hardware based calibration and the new PA series 30" that does not offer this feature.

Should I buy the newer PA 30" monitor or the older Spectraview.

Need to pull the trigger ASAP so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

JT
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: digitaldog on March 07, 2011, 07:52:01 pm
Should I buy the newer PA 30" monitor or the older Spectraview.

Haven’t got my hands on one yet but I suspect you want the PA.
Title: Re: Best 30" monitor out there??
Post by: Czornyj on March 08, 2011, 04:43:38 pm
Should I buy the newer PA 30" monitor or the older Spectraview.

I'd definietly go PA301W, in comparison to 3090 virtually everyting is a little bit improved in that display - it's the sum of small tweaks that make the difference.