Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: wolfnowl on March 27, 2010, 02:44:11 am

Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: wolfnowl on March 27, 2010, 02:44:11 am
I'm not trying to start a new rumour, although that may be too easy to do.  And I don't have any concrete information, but... I've been considering the Sony A900 camera, and I was in a camera shop in Victoria a few weeks ago asking about price.  The clerk told me they had discontinued them and couldn't get me one.  I e-mailed Sony Canada and they informed me that the A700 has been discontinued, but the A900 has not.

Yesterday I was in a different store and they had an A900 there, on sale for $200 off.  I asked the clerk how long they were going to be on sale, and she informed me that they're selling this one on clearance, so when it's gone, it's gone, because Sony is 'apparently' bringing out a replacement.

What to do... hmmm...    

Mike.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: K.C. on March 27, 2010, 03:27:18 am
SONY announced their plans for 2010 at PMA:

http://tinyurl.com/yd3nzxy (http://tinyurl.com/yd3nzxy)

I bought A850 and the CZ 24-70. They're wonderful to work with and IQ is superb.

I have the 5DII and 7D as well. I use the SONY over the Canon's any time I can.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on March 27, 2010, 04:30:46 am
Hi,

I don't have the impression that a replacement for the A900 would be imminent. It is possible that a minor revision could be around, perhaps with Live View. For most uses the Alpha 850 may be a good alternative. The two omissions are 98% viewfinder and 3 FPS (100% on the A900 and 5 FPS).

Best regards
Erik


Quote from: wolfnowl
I'm not trying to start a new rumour, although that may be too easy to do.  And I don't have any concrete information, but... I've been considering the Sony A900 camera, and I was in a camera shop in Victoria a few weeks ago asking about price.  The clerk told me they had discontinued them and couldn't get me one.  I e-mailed Sony Canada and they informed me that the A700 has been discontinued, but the A900 has not.

Yesterday I was in a different store and they had an A900 there, on sale for $200 off.  I asked the clerk how long they were going to be on sale, and she informed me that they're selling this one on clearance, so when it's gone, it's gone, because Sony is 'apparently' bringing out a replacement.

What to do... hmmm...    

Mike.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: fredjeang on March 27, 2010, 06:03:22 am
Hi,
Well I have to say that Mike's wondering is apropriate.
I've heard very good critics from the A900 and A850 users, (starting from this website) and I thought that it would be very nice to have other choices than CaNikon.
But the "sad" reality is that thinking long term, CaNikon are the most reliable 35mm FF players.

Let's take the second-hand market for example. Here in Spain and also in France, there is a huge volume of accessories, lenses etc...in the second-hand market from Nikon and Canon. The volume of opoprtunities from Minolta, Sony is much discrete, and the lens range is limited. That is a point.

The CaNikon buyer knows that their gear's offers are stables and that the lenses you invest in, will always be served by constant up-dated bodies.
The vague comunication from Sony is not very encouraging, and it is possible that they might be interested in develloping other market (EVIL).
So, yes, wonderfull gear, but when it's time to buy I would wonder about the future of that system in the time.

I've been very attracted at one point by the Sony, unfortunately, if I had to invest in a FF 35mm now, I'll choose Canon or Nikon: no hassle, no worries, and an enormous amount of lenses and accessories new and second-hand for any kind of purpose.
That is a very important factor.

Fred.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: pegelli on March 27, 2010, 07:23:50 am
Quote from: fredjeang
I've been very attracted at one point by the Sony, unfortunately, if I had to invest in a FF 35mm now, I'll choose Canon or Nikon: no hassle, no worries, and an enormous amount of lenses and accessories new and second-hand for any kind of purpose.
That is a very important factor.

Fred.

Don't want to disagree with you (because you make some fair points) but still provide some data on the flipside.
In the end everybody will have to make their own choice on their own grounds.

This is what I see on the flipside of your points:
- In body SSS makes all lenses (even 20 year old Minolta ones) stabilized, once that becomes an option your choices become a lot bigger. Which other brand has a stabilised 85/1.4 for low light, a stabilized 200/2.8 prime .....?
- There is quite a big 2nd hand Minolta/Sony lens offering on e-bay and craigslist
- If you don't trust that there is a quite active 2nd hand forum with good reputation for fair deals (and virtually no scams) on Dyxum.com (http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/sell-buy-equipment_forum7.html)
- In Paris the 2nd hand shops on boulevard Beaumarchais are reported to stock an abundence of 2nd hand A-mount lenses, I have seen some in shops in Belgium as well.
- In the end, once your lineup is complete how many lenses do you really buy and need?
- Except for the Nikon D3x no other FF has the detail and resolution of the A900/850

I think Sony now is clearly established as #3 in the DSLR market, but still some way behind Canon and Nikon
Will they ever become #2? Sony says yes but I think it's a long shot and very tough road as neither Nikon or Canon are sitting on their hands either.
Will they withdraw from the DSLR segment? I think unlikely. They've invested heavily in lens and body development and are constantly growing so barring something that's blindsiding me I think they're here to stay.
I see their interest in EVIL development as positive. Both Canon and Nikon do P&S, Bridge and DSLR so I would be really surprised if they would't want a bite of the EVIL pie as well, especially looking at the success of the M4/3 that Olympus and Panasonic started.

Again, I'm not arguing your points, but trying to provide a different and supplementary perspective.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: fredjeang on March 27, 2010, 07:44:42 am
Quote from: pegelli
Don't want to disagree with you (because you make some fair points) but still provide some data on the flipside.
In the end everybody will have to make their own choice on their own grounds.

This is what I see on the flipside of your points:
- In body SSS makes all lenses (even 20 year old Minolta ones) stabilized, once that becomes an option your choices become a lot bigger. Which other brand has a stabilised 85/1.4 for low light, a stabilized 200/2.8 prime .....?
- There is quite a big 2nd hand Minolta/Sony lens offering on e-bay and craigslist
- If you don't trust that there is a quite active 2nd hand forum with good reputation for fair deals (and virtually no scams) on Dyxum.com (http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/sell-buy-equipment_forum7.html)
- In Paris the 2nd hand shops on boulevard Beaumarchais are reported to stock an abundence of 2nd hand A-mount lenses, I have seen some in shops in Belgium as well.
- In the end, once your lineup is complete how many lenses do you really buy and need?
- Except for the Nikon D3x no other FF has the detail and resolution of the A900/850

I think Sony now is clearly established as #3 in the DSLR market, but still some way behind Canon and Nikon
Will they ever become #2? Sony says yes but I think it's a long shot and very tough road as neither Nikon or Canon are sitting on their hands either.
Will they withdraw from the DSLR segment? I think unlikely. They've invested heavily in lens and body development and are constantly growing so barring something that's blindsiding me I think they're here to stay.
I see their interest in EVIL development as positive. Both Canon and Nikon do P&S, Bridge and DSLR so I would be really surprised if they would't want a bite of the EVIL pie as well, especially looking at the success of the M4/3 that Olympus and Panasonic started.

Again, I'm not arguing your points, but trying to provide a different and supplementary perspective.

Hi,
You're very welcome to arguing and contrasting my points.
Actually, I think that your points are very solid and to take into consideration.
The thing that worries me really, is the vague comunication from Sony with their pro FF 35mm.
What you say on the Boulevard Beaumarchais is true, (on Beaumarchais you find anything anyway).
No doubt that Sony is perfectly capable of producing the best tools, and even in video capabilities, overperformed Canon.
But where will put their efforts, and for wich market? That is my concern.
I think they should be much clearer in their comunication because they might produce a "worry effect" and loose some potencial buyers that look for stability in that particular segment.

Fred.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: feppe on March 27, 2010, 07:55:33 am
Quote from: fredjeang
The thing that worries me really, is the vague comunication from Sony with their pro FF 35mm.

Not sure what you mean by vague communication - below quite detailed plans for 2010 from the link above, which is much more than we've heard from Canon (I don't follow Nikon rumors).

My experience with Sony is that when they enter a market they're in it for the long haul, and are willing to take on considerable financial challenges in the growing stage. As a Canon shooter I'm keenly looking forward to the next generation of Sony cameras.

Quote
Mainstream DSLR range to grow further
Sony also confirms that the current α range will continue to grow with the introduction of further new mainstream DSLR models using the newly-developed Exmor APS HD CMOS sensor and integrating HD video function with AVCHD format.

Shown in concept mock-up form at PMA is a successor to the α700, Sony’s acclaimed mid-range camera body that has found favour with ‘prosumers’ and enthusiasts.

New DSLR lenses from Sony
The α family of over 30 interchangeable lenses and teleconverters is set to grow with the addition of exciting new models.

Shown in advanced pre-production form at PMA is the Distagon T* 24mm f/2 ZA SSM Carl Zeiss wide angle lens. Scheduled for launch in 2010, this bright, wide angle prime is an ideal choice for reportage, naturally lit interiors and other quality-critical handheld shooting applications.

Displayed as a mock-up on the Sony booth, the newest lens to carry the G Lens name is a bright, high-power Super Telephoto 500mm f/4 G with class-leading optical performance.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on March 27, 2010, 09:14:35 am
Hi,

I guess that EVIL is actually a good thing. BUT we need better electronic viewfinders and I'm quite concerned about performance in darkness.

The way I see it EVIL solves a lot of issues with the SLR concept. What we see now is just the beginning.

Best regards
Erik


Quote from: pegelli
I see their interest in EVIL development as positive. Both Canon and Nikon do P&S, Bridge and DSLR so I would be really surprised if they would't want a bite of the EVIL pie as well, especially looking at the success of the M4/3 that Olympus and Panasonic started.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: pegelli on March 27, 2010, 09:39:50 am
Quote from: fredjeang
But where will put their efforts, and for wich market? That is my concern.
I think they should be much clearer in their comunication because they might produce a "worry effect" and loose some potencial buyers that look for stability in that particular segment.

Well everybody will probably hear what they want to hear in it, but I think feppe's quotes aren't that unclear. No company will release more specific info until they're ready.

Also I attended a Sony Demo day in the Netherlands where Sony gave a presentation about their market and future vision.
From a body perspective they clearly see 3 segments:
- beginners (2xx/3xx series)
- mainstream (4xx/5xx)
- advanced amateur (7xx/850/900)
They stated that they want to further develop all these 3 segments as technology and possibilities progress. So contrary to some internet speak they clearly said the A4xx/5xx was not the new beginner (ex P&S or bridge shooter) segment. Also they said they're not (yet) intending to enter the real pro market and currently see the A850/900 and further developments as their top tier. Never say never, but currently I don't think they're ready or willing to compete with the 1DMk4's and D3's.

Re. lenses I can say they're aware of the gaps in their line up and said they were working on their new releases (this was before they announced the new 500/4 and 24/2) and would release a few new lenses every year for the foreseeable future.

Obviously people can claim this is still less than Canon or Nikon have to offer, but personally I would be more worried about Pentax and Oly then Sony's staying power in the DSLR segment.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: fredjeang on March 27, 2010, 11:32:43 am
Quote from: pegelli
Obviously people can claim this is still less than Canon or Nikon have to offer, but personally I would be more worried about Pentax and Oly then Sony's staying power in the DSLR segment.
Totally agree.
Pentax has gone MF, and they probably won't release a 35mm ff. Maybe something like the 7D. Oly FT is dead in that segment and they are in MFT.

Fred.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: K.C. on March 27, 2010, 05:38:18 pm
Remember also that SONY left Minolta basically intact. So development is slow but methodical and they'll enter the pro market as it deems profitable. Wise in my opinion. Why chase the big three when you don't need to.

They have the exclusive for CZ autofocus DSLR lenses locked up for several years. The current CZ/SONY lineup will grow and then we'll see new bodies introduced.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: wolfnowl on March 28, 2010, 01:23:42 am
Quote
SONY announced their plans for 2010 at PMA:

http://tinyurl.com/yd3nzxy (http://tinyurl.com/yd3nzxy)

Thanks for this, I hadn't seen it.  The announcement is a little vague (emphasis mine):

Quote
"Sony highlights digital imaging strategy at PMA

Ultra-compact new camera with interchangeable lenses, APS-size sensor and AVCHD; more additions to α DSLR line-up

   * Ultra-compact new α camera with interchangeable lenses in development for launch 2010
    * Additions to mainstream α family and mid-range successor to α700

    * New lenses in development including Distagon T* 24mm f/2 ZA SSM 24mm, new Carl Zeiss wide angle lens and Super Telephoto 500mm f/4 G Lens

February 2010: At PMA this year, Sony confirms plans to further expand the appeal of its digital imaging range. Additions to the α (”alpha”) range of DSLR cameras will be joined by a new product concept that makes high-quality imaging accessible to an even wider audience of photographers.

Ultra-compact camera with interchangeable lenses and APS-C sensor
In 2010 Sony will introduce a new ultra-compact camera with interchangeable lenses that teams “any time, anywhere” convenience with DSLR picture quality. Exhibited in early concept mock-up form at PMA, the camera features a newly-developed Exmor APS HD CMOS sensor. It will also support HD video recording using the efficient AVCHD format. Shown in mock-up form alongside the compact, easy-to-use new camera is a selection of compatible interchangeable lenses.

Mainstream DSLR range to grow further
Sony also confirms that the current α range will continue to grow with the introduction of further new mainstream DSLR models using the newly-developed Exmor APS HD CMOS sensor and integrating HD video function with AVCHD format.

Shown in concept mock-up form at PMA is a successor to the α700, Sony’s acclaimed mid-range camera body that has found favour with ‘prosumers’ and enthusiasts.

New DSLR lenses from Sony
The α family of over 30 interchangeable lenses and teleconverters is set to grow with the addition of exciting new models.

Shown in advanced pre-production form at PMA is the Distagon T* 24mm f/2 ZA SSM Carl Zeiss wide angle lens. Scheduled for launch in 2010, this bright, wide angle prime is an ideal choice for reportage, naturally lit interiors and other quality-critical handheld shooting applications.

Displayed as a mock-up on the Sony booth, the newest lens to carry the G Lens name is a bright, high-power Super Telephoto 500mm f/4 G with class-leading optical performance."

Nowhere in there do they say they're going to replace the A900, and the e-mail I received back from them said essentially the same thing.  Still, the one camera store I asked said they couldn't order any and the other has their one in-stock body on clearance.  We're still less than 3 months into 2010.  That's what had me wondering.

Mike.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: fredjeang on March 28, 2010, 06:14:31 am
Quote from: wolfnowl
Thanks for this, I hadn't seen it.  The announcement is a little vague (emphasis mine):



Nowhere in there do they say they're going to replace the A900, and the e-mail I received back from them said essentially the same thing.  Still, the one camera store I asked said they couldn't order any and the other has their one in-stock body on clearance.  We're still less than 3 months into 2010.  That's what had me wondering.

Mike.
That's exactly my feeling too. There is no cristal clear position. Mmmm...it smells a lot like Sony finds not very rewarding this segment and will concentrate step by step in another one.
CaNikon still have glory days for awhile IMO.

Fred.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: Thomas Krüger on March 28, 2010, 07:15:22 am
Zeiss has a whole range of manual focus wide angle lenses - but not with the Sony/Minolta attach.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: feppe on March 28, 2010, 07:48:09 am
Quote from: fredjeang
That's exactly my feeling too. There is no cristal clear position. Mmmm...it smells a lot like Sony finds not very rewarding this segment and will concentrate step by step in another one.

Neither does Canon or Nikon - we have no clue whatsoever when 5D MkIII will come (if ever), or what will be the specs of the next generation of high-end Nikons. We don't even know when they will presented.

So singling out Sony because they don't announce their plans ahead of time is unfair, as they are doing the exact same thing as the incumbents. And as I pointed out above, they are well ahead of both Canon and Nikon with advance communication.

Besides, we've seen that advance announcements of products can really hurt you. The Pentax 645D was vaporware for years, and even when it was announced in Japan only there were a few but very noisy people on this board crying about the injustice of getting advance notice of a product.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on March 28, 2010, 09:13:38 am
Manual focusing is not really easy, especially on a camera without Live View.


Best regards
Erik


Quote from: ThomasK
Zeiss has a whole range of manual focus wide angle lenses - but not with the Sony/Minolta attach.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: JeffKohn on March 28, 2010, 07:32:10 pm
I think the reason Sony is singled out is because the a900 and a850 are missing significant features that IMHO make them second-tier compared to Canon/Nikon.

For me the big one is live-view. I would have seriously considered leaving Nikon for the a900 back on initial release if it had live-view, but that's a deal-breaker for me. Not including it was just stupid (as was their reasoning for not including it).

Sony also lacks a prosumer model with full-frame video, something a lot of people are interested in these days (not me though).
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on March 28, 2010, 08:16:05 pm
Hi,

This thread was started by Mike who could not place an order for an A900, but told that a replacement was on way. Also it seems that the A700 was laid down without replacement even if Sony is said to work on a new APS-C camera at the same level.

I guess than Sony misscalculated on EVIL cameras and the need of LV and video and needs time to add those features.

It is very well possible that Sony will release a slightly updated A900 soon. They would not pre announce it because that would kill sales on the present model. The sensor they use now is certainly capable of LV but "Bionz" (the signal processor) may be not. This is of course speculation.

Best regards
Erik


Quote from: EPd
I am baffled about the constant calls for newer cameras from Sony while the A900 isn't 1.5 years old yet and the A850 is not even one year old. These are cameras at the top of the pyramid of high-end DSLR's by today's standards. These are not cameras that need to follow each season's latest fashion, like cheaper ones do. Not Canon, nor Nikon have introduced more top models at a higher pace ever, so why worry about Sony, which is just beginning in this sector. Japanese manufacturers in the imaging field, but especially Sony, have always used Photokina (the biggest and most important trade show for imaging products in the world) to introduce their new flagships (for the longer Sony track in this: look at their broadcast video camera section). This is a Photokina year. So if you use plain simple thinking it is not likely that Sony will introduce an A900/A850 replacement before September 21st, 2010. http://www.photokina-cologne.com/ (http://www.photokina-cologne.com/)
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: K.C. on March 28, 2010, 10:37:54 pm
Quote
As a Canon shooter I'm keenly looking forward to the next generation of Sony cameras.

As a Canon shooter I'm keenly enjoying that I bought the SONY and CZ lenses.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: K.C. on March 28, 2010, 10:41:39 pm
Quote
This thread was started by Mike who could not place an order for an A900, but told that a replacement was on way.

It is very well possible that Sony will release a slightly updated A900 soon. They would not pre announce it because that would kill sales on the present model. The sensor they use now is certainly capable of LV buy "Bionz" (the signal processor) may be not. This is of course speculation.

One guy in some camera store says he can't get one. Maybe he can't get another one because there aren't any in the channel, but there will be in another month. All the major vendors have them in stock, supply is not an issue if you have capital.

I gotta laugh at how people hear what they want to hear.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: fredjeang on March 29, 2010, 05:11:14 am
The quality of the high-end Sony are not in question here IMO. We all agree that these are fantastic cameras. I've been really impressed at the time by the Minolta 7D and the Sony are made from that wood. I do not own one, but had some files reacently and there are outstanding.
The ergonomics is more in the line to what I expect a camera shoul be (but it is a personal feeling)

What worries me, is precicely that it is a new player, and they need to do better comunication and more efforts in that segment than would have to do CaNikon. Specially, the fact that high-end and pro segment is a small but prestigious one. To me, it looks like Sony is not going to play strongly in that segment, it smells that, but of course it is a interpretation that I do, based on to external factor.
Because here we are not talking about a little company like Pentax. Sony have the power and structures to do things fast and impose the Brand in that segment. I have the sensation that they came into it, but now that they have changed the route.

I'm not a CaNikon lover, but have to admit that when I see the amount of options available for these gears, both new and second-hand, as a consumer,
I'll think twice in going to Sony High-end at the moment if I had limited incomes and had to choose one stable system thinking long term.

Will Sony surprise us very soon ?

Fred.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: pegelli on March 29, 2010, 07:44:09 am
I think if there's a mistake Sony made with the A900 and A700 is that they let them go out of production before being sure of the successor, and thereby making them harder to find for people looking into that segment.

However with a bit of effort very reasonable priced NIB A700's and A900's can be found if you really want one and the A850 is only deficient in frame rate (I think 100% or 98% viewfinder coverage isn't significant).

Wrt video or live view, the community is still split on those options. For some it's absence is a deal breaker while others want a "pure" photocamera. Can't please all.

Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: Jeremy Payne on March 29, 2010, 08:25:13 am
Quote from: pegelli
Wrt video or live view, the community is still split on those options. For some it's absence is a deal breaker while others want a "pure" photocamera. Can't please all.

Why would someone NOT want LiveView on a 20+mp camera?
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: fredjeang on March 29, 2010, 10:09:59 am
Quote from: EPd
Because one doesn't need it, perhaps? LV does suck up battery power, by the way. In the nearly 1.5 years that I am using the A900 now I haven't had a single occasion that I thought I needed it. Not that I would mind having it in a camera, just like video, but I didn't need it. I would especially like it if it came for free. But LV needs to be implemented technically and that will come at a price. The A850 is so very well priced partly because a choice was made of what to leave out. Note that the Nikon competitor using the same chip does have LV, but lacks built in anti-shake. At a much higher price even. Anti-shake for a FF chip is a major technical tour-de-force. The lack of it is something I personally consider a dealbreaker when buying a DSLR.

There is no such camera that will make any type of photographer happy. Even when it had all the bells and whistles that all high-end DSLRs have combined it would not be the perfect camera, because nobody would use ALL these features, while in the meanwhile they would clutter the user interface. I consider myself quite a broadly oriented photographer, but there is no way that I would benefit from having it all under my hands in one camera. On the other hand: my perfect personal camera would probably combine features that you will not find in any existing model currently available. As long as there are no built-to-order DSLR's we'll have to pick one from what is pre-configured for us by the different brands. So for one person a Canon will do best while for the other a Sony or a Nikon will be the preferred type. For me the Sony A900 happened to be the best fit for my needs. By lucky incident, because otherwise I would have had to invest in an all new system from another vendor.

Seen in the broad perspective I think that Sony's A700/A850/A900 are the most "purely photographical" cameras in a more traditional sense. Image quality is superb, with much better colors than Canon or Nikon have. Handling of the Sony's is very photography driven, which you will experience after some extensive use. This is a field where Minolta used to shine traditionally. All emphasis is put into making a well-exposed, well-focused, well-colored still image in the most comfortable way. The engineers clearly did not think about such a completely different thing such as video. And even live view was probably considered as some sort of video. Instead the engineers came up with a very smart type of preview where you can experiment with different camera settings after having taken the test shot. This is especially very convenient if you work hand-held. You won't need to keep your camera pointed at you subject to see what a different setting is going to do. I have used this function a lot. How would I get this convenience with the Canikons?
I agree with your points. But in the case of Sony, live view is specially important. The reason is that there is a lot of manual Minolta lenses, and the current offers from Sony-Zeiss is still limited (and expensive). I work only with manual primes, and if the green light confirmation is, let's say, "reliable"    in many cases, live view is not an extra secondary feature IMO.
Going video is another story, but a "pure" camera should have live view facility IMO.

Fred.


Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: Theresa on March 29, 2010, 10:38:41 am
Quote from: EPd
Because one doesn't need it, perhaps? LV does suck up battery power, by the way. In the nearly 1.5 years that I am using the A900 now I haven't had a single occasion that I thought I needed it. Not that I would mind having it in a camera, just like video, but I didn't need it. I would especially like it if it came for free. But LV needs to be implemented technically and that will come at a price. The A850 is so very well priced partly because a choice was made of what to leave out. Note that the Nikon competitor using the same chip does have LV, but lacks built in anti-shake. At a much higher price even. Anti-shake for a FF chip is a major technical tour-de-force. The lack of it is something I personally consider a dealbreaker when buying a DSLR.

There will be live view because the market demands it.  Whether I need it or not, and I don't, it will have it.  There will be much better high iso performance, which I do want but can probably do without.  I think eventually all there will be is EVFs, no OVF.  I will probably have my a850 a long time as I prefer its excellent viewfinder.  It is cheaper because they won't need a pentaprism (or pentamirror) or a mirror and probably not a mechanical shutter.  I'm hoping that these will be available in ff.  FF is a real fringe market for Sony with very little demand.  I'm hoping that there is a fan of FF at Sony, which it seems they do what with the excellent a850/a900.  I think the a850, which I have, was created to use up the part supply for the a900.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: Jeremy Payne on March 29, 2010, 11:10:43 am
Quote from: EPd
Because one doesn't need it, perhaps?

Guess you've never used it then?

But it is pretty obvious you are a die-hard Sony fan ... so I won't get into it with you ... but you should really try LV before you knock it.

Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: feppe on March 29, 2010, 12:07:36 pm
Quote from: Jeremy Payne
Guess you've never used it then?

But it is pretty obvious you are a die-hard Sony fan ... so I won't get into it with you ... but you should really try LV before you knock it.

I kept saying I don't need no stinking Live View holding on to my 30D, but when I got 450D with LV and used it once, I got it immediately. It's perfect for tripod work. And it's indispensable for low light work as AF doesn't function and I bet even FF viewfinders aren't bright enough to focus accurately especially with high-megapixel cameras.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: JeffKohn on March 29, 2010, 12:31:12 pm
IMHO the only reason somebody using a high-MP DSLR for tripod-based shooting wouldn't want live-view is because they've never used it. There is no better way to achieve critical focus on a DSLR than live-view. That's especially true for manual-focus and tilt/shift lenses, but even with AF lenses I've found the contrast-based live-view AF to be more precise than phase-detect AF. Plus you can set your focus point anywhere in the frame. And the higher the MP count in a camera, the more important focus accuracy becomes.

And I don't buy the 'cost' argument. Entry-level consumer DSLR's and P&S cameras have had live-view for years, it certainly wouldn't have affected the price point of the a900. Sony left it out because they mis-judged it's value to shooters in this market segment. The lower-level Sony's have a much-praised "live-mos" LV implementation that is great for hand-held, P&S-style shooting; but when Sony couldn't scale that up to full-frame they said they'd rather wait to add LV until they could do it "right". But LV isn't for P&S-style hand-held shooting in a camera like the a900, the whole point is being able to focus off the main sensor, so their argument that LV off the main sensor isn't worth bothering with is completely wrong-headed. Fact is since the time-frame of the Nikon D300/D3, LV has become a standard feature in CMOS-based DSLR's, with the two Sony full-frames being the only exception that I can think of.

As for the "preview" function Sony added in lieu of LV, all it really does is fave you the step of manually deleting your test shot. A small convenience, but hardly ground-breaking or indispensable IMHO.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: Marlyn on March 29, 2010, 12:55:52 pm
I'm in the "addicted to Live view" club.     Shooting Landscapes with a 90 or 24mm TS-E lens on a 1DS-3, it is just brilliant for accurate focusing, especially when messing with Tilts.    Its a deal breaker now (for me at least) for the high rez cameras with manual / TiltShift lenses.

Whilst I can often focus fine with the viewfinder and focus confirmation, I find LV +10x zoom,  + DoF preview does a much better Job on those tricky landscapes (especially with tilts).   I'm shooting at F11 to maximise resolution / minimise difraction so I need to be quite carefull with DoF, especially on the 90.  

I was also in the camp of 'sounded like a nice gimmic'  until I used it.   Since then, never going back.

Regards

Mark
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on March 29, 2010, 03:03:32 pm
Hi,

What focusing screen are you using?

I have two issues with manual focus. One is that the AF lenses are not that easy to focus manually, the other we have now another variable, focus plane alignment of viewfinder screen, mirror and sensor. A third issue is that I just cannot see that viewfinder magnification is really good enough for critical focus. Focusing an 400/4.5 with 2X extender is very difficult on the A900.

Best regards
Erik



Quote from: EPd
O yes, I have used it (Canon 1Ds mIII). And no, I am absolutely not a Sony fan. I have avoided the Sony brand as long as I could, but since they took over the Minolta legacy I had to look into them because of my investment in Minolta glass. I am definately not interested in anything else from them than a FF DSLR. (My video cameras are all Canon, as is my pocket cam.) But I have to admit, with somewhat grinding teeth, that their A900 is a really outstanding camera, which I cannot avoid to like. A big chunk of my income is based on that single camera and believe me: I do not take any quality risks with my business. So I taped away the Sony brand on my camera (how's that for a "die-hard Sony fan"?) to get rid of Canikoner's unsollicited comments that keep you from doing your work, and shoot away happily.

Regarding the idea that the viewfinder might not be good enough to focus a 24MP camera like this: I get very accurate focus by using the viewfinder. Maybe you should try a really good viewfinder (with a very good ground glass above all) for a change? If my camera had LV I would probably use it sometimes, just because I could. And yes, I am quite sure that Sony will put LV and video in their future flagship cameras, even if only for the me-too whiners from DPR. If you truly believe you cannot live without LV now, do not buy a Sony FF.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: Jeremy Payne on March 29, 2010, 06:09:25 pm
Quote from: EPd
I'm using the Acute Matte L-screen. (Acute Matte is a classical Minolta patent for a christallized surface structure that ensures maximum light efficiency with very clear focus "pop". Also used in the later Hasselblad focusing screens.)

The AF lenses that I have all have normal to good focusing rings, so no problem there.

Alignment of focus plane, sensor and ground glass should be perfect. This is what you may expect from a camera like the A900. (A side note: the main difference between the A900 and the A850 is the level of manual labour (= direct labour costs) involved in the adjustment of things like the 100% viewfinder image. The A850's viewfinder is exactly the same, but not manually adjusted to show the exact recording area. I would assume though that the focusing planes are adjusted to the same standards in both models.) Wherever I focus on my screen, that is always where best focus is achieved. For very critical situations (low light with little contrast for example) I use a viewfinder magnifier. There is a separate one and there is one built into the angle finder with a switch. Highly effective. I have to say though that my eyes have exeptional high resolution, so in most cases it is easy for me to see exact focus in my viewfinder, even of very small details.
Must be some screen ... I have essentially 20/10 vision and can't always nail it in the viewfinder.  My hit rate with LV is 100%, my hit rate with my eyes is significantly lower than that.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: wolfnowl on March 29, 2010, 07:47:19 pm
Quote from: K.C.
One guy in some camera store says he can't get one. Maybe he can't get another one because there aren't any in the channel, but there will be in another month. All the major vendors have them in stock, supply is not an issue if you have capital.

I gotta laugh at how people hear what they want to hear.
That's not quite correct, but it may be what you wanted to read? (subtle poke in the ribs, and all in jest).  However, since I started this ball rolling...

What I said was that a clerk at a local camera store (Kerrisdale Cameras) - which is one of a chain of stores - said that the A900s were discontinued and they couldn't order them.  I knew Sony had discontinued the A700 but I hadn't heard anything about the A900, so I was wondering.  I sent an e-mail to Sony Canada and asked them, and the person who replied confirmed that the A700 has been discontinued but the A900 is still current.  They are available for purchase through the Sony website.  Last Friday I was in another store (London Drugs) - one of a chain of stores also, and as I was walking by the camera desk I noticed they had an A900 there 'on sale' for $200 less.  I asked the clerk there how long the A900s would be on sale and she replied that they only had the one A900 body and it was on clearance as they were being discontinued and Sony is planning to bring out something new.  That's all I know, and that's essentially what I posted.  When I was at the London Drugs store today I walked by the camera counter and that body has been sold.

Now it MAY be that Sony is discontinuing the A900, or it may not.  Based on the responses of two clerks in two different corporations, that's what's been implied to me.  It may be different in the US than it is in Canada.  Anyone who knows for certain is likely covered under NDA.  Sony isn't saying, and if they did, it's theoretically possible that people would stop buying A900s in favour of whatever they MAY be bringing out and they'd be left with their current stock.  The A900 is available from sonystyle.ca and it's also available and in stock at B&H.  I'm not accusing Sony of hiding their (potential?) upgrades, only playing their cards close.  Neither am I criticizing their policies.  In their place I might do the same thing.

I like the A900 as a camera, but I'm not in any particular rush to purchase one so I can wait a month or two.  I like the in-body stabilization, and I like the general look and feel of it.  They have some great lenses, and Sigma and others also make good lenses.  I've never used Live View, but I can see how it might have some potential for macro and/or landscape work, which is mostly what I do.  I've made a couple of 'family' videos using my walk-around Fuji camera, but I've been a photographer for so long I keep trying to shoot video in portrait mode and it doesn't work overly well.

And that's all I have to say about that!

Mike.  
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: pegelli on March 29, 2010, 08:04:02 pm
Quote from: pegelli
Wrt ..... live view, the community is still split on those options. For some it's absence is a deal breaker while others want a "pure" photocamera.

Looking at the reactions sofar I think this was a valid point.

My philosophy is:

If you want Live View (insert any option in here) don't let anybody on the internet tell you that you don't need it

If you don't want Live view (insert any other option in here) don't let anybody on the internet tell you that you do need it

Only look at attributes and see if you want to change your mind or try it.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on March 30, 2010, 12:50:27 am
Hi,

Starting this thread was OK in my humble opinion. It generated a few comments which may have been helpful for potential Sony buyers.

Regarding the situation I guess that there is a shortage of Alpha 900-s. One reason may be the Alpha 850, which for most people may be a better choice. My guess is that Sony only has a small production capacity geared to the top level cameras and that they are in process of manufacturing a stock of a new model before introduction. They would obviously be tight lipped about the new models, so not to kill off sales of the existing models.

From the news I didn't really expect a new model "real soon now", your observation may indicate it could be around the corner.

Regarding the Sony Alpha I'd suggest that you check out the lenses you may be interested in. It seems that Sony has generally quite high prices. It's reassuring that at least some folks on the forum prefer the Sony lenses compared to other lens lines they also have experience with.

Best regards
Erik






Quote from: wolfnowl
That's not quite correct, but it may be what you wanted to read? (subtle poke in the ribs, and all in jest).  However, since I started this ball rolling...

What I said was that a clerk at a local camera store (Kerrisdale Cameras) - which is one of a chain of stores - said that the A900s were discontinued and they couldn't order them.  I knew Sony had discontinued the A700 but I hadn't heard anything about the A900, so I was wondering.  I sent an e-mail to Sony Canada and asked them, and the person who replied confirmed that the A700 has been discontinued but the A900 is still current.  They are available for purchase through the Sony website.  Last Friday I was in another store (London Drugs) - one of a chain of stores also, and as I was walking by the camera desk I noticed they had an A900 there 'on sale' for $200 less.  I asked the clerk there how long the A900s would be on sale and she replied that they only had the one A900 body and it was on clearance as they were being discontinued and Sony is planning to bring out something new.  That's all I know, and that's essentially what I posted.  When I was at the London Drugs store today I walked by the camera counter and that body has been sold.

Now it MAY be that Sony is discontinuing the A900, or it may not.  Based on the responses of two clerks in two different corporations, that's what's been implied to me.  It may be different in the US than it is in Canada.  Anyone who knows for certain is likely covered under NDA.  Sony isn't saying, and if they did, it's theoretically possible that people would stop buying A900s in favour of whatever they MAY be bringing out and they'd be left with their current stock.  The A900 is available from sonystyle.ca and it's also available and in stock at B&H.  I'm not accusing Sony of hiding their (potential?) upgrades, only playing their cards close.  Neither am I criticizing their policies.  In their place I might do the same thing.

I like the A900 as a camera, but I'm not in any particular rush to purchase one so I can wait a month or two.  I like the in-body stabilization, and I like the general look and feel of it.  They have some great lenses, and Sigma and others also make good lenses.  I've never used Live View, but I can see how it might have some potential for macro and/or landscape work, which is mostly what I do.  I've made a couple of 'family' videos using my walk-around Fuji camera, but I've been a photographer for so long I keep trying to shoot video in portrait mode and it doesn't work overly well.

And that's all I have to say about that!

Mike.  
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ziocan on March 30, 2010, 08:54:50 pm
Quote from: ThomasK
Zeiss has a whole range of manual focus wide angle lenses - but not with the Sony/Minolta attach.
If you are photographing people and want to use manual focus lenses on modern DSLR cameras, manual focus will make you miss the majority of good spontaneous images.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ziocan on March 30, 2010, 09:10:49 pm
Quote from: Jeremy Payne
Guess you've never used it then?

But it is pretty obvious you are a die-hard Sony fan ... so I won't get into it with you ... but you should really try LV before you knock it.
Some Sony DSLR cameras have the best LV in the market.
The fact that you like working with live view does not mean that in some circumstances, it is not only "not necessary", but would be a nuisance.
BTW the implementations on Canikon that are generally sluggish, on certain circumstances when you need to work fast and spontaneously, live view is definitively not the better option.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ziocan on March 30, 2010, 09:18:24 pm
Quote from: feppe
I kept saying I don't need no stinking Live View holding on to my 30D, but when I got 450D with LV and used it once, I got it immediately. It's perfect for tripod work. And it's indispensable for low light work as AF doesn't function and I bet even FF viewfinders aren't bright enough to focus accurately especially with high-megapixel cameras.
Majority of people who does not use one, does not know that the a900 (even the a700) can AF in nearly darkness like no Canikon can do.
I was very surprised when I was testing my 1ds mark 2 in studio next to the a900 and under modeling lights from soft boxes, the 1ds was hunting focus and needed the hlep of an extra Arri or Halogen to lock reliably, while the a900 could focus fast and reliably just under the modeling lights.
BTW in studio with modeling light or on low light condition shooting people, live view is not the best option.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ziocan on March 30, 2010, 09:25:03 pm
Quote from: JeffKohn
The lower-level Sony's have a much-praised "live-mos" LV implementation that is great for hand-held, P&S-style shooting; but when Sony couldn't scale that up to full-frame they said they'd rather wait to add LV until they could do it "right". But LV isn't for P&S-style hand-held shooting in a camera like the a900, the whole point is being able to focus off the main sensor, so their argument that LV off the main sensor isn't worth bothering with is completely wrong-headed.
Well, LV will definitively be very useful if you shoot on tripod on front of a flower or a waterfall and have all the time of the world to peep on it, but how many photographers actually use their cameras like that?

Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on March 30, 2010, 11:45:46 pm
Me for instance.

I guess that Velbon, Manfrotto, Gitzo and a lot of other tripod vendors were out of business if people like Bernard, Jeff, Michael and well... me were all that unique.

The other way to see it. Live View is a natural for digital. The majority of digital cameras are LV-only. LV would not work with the kind of CCDs used in MFDBs. Not all photographers would use LV and not all the time.

BR
Erik Kaffehr


Quote from: ziocan
Well, LV will definitively be very useful if you shoot on tripod on front of a flower or a waterfall and have all the time of the world to peep on it, but how many photographers actually use their cameras like that?

Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: JeffKohn on March 31, 2010, 01:38:11 am
Quote from: ziocan
Well, LV will definitively be very useful if you shoot on tripod on front of a flower or a waterfall and have all the time of the world to peep on it, but how many photographers actually use their cameras like that?
I don't have any hard numbers to back this up, but I would bet that the number of people using 24mp DSLR's for landscape/nature outnumber those using them for portraits or action. If I shot the latter, I'd be using a D3 not a D3x. So your implication that shooting from a tripod is a rarity is not something I would agree with.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on March 31, 2010, 02:55:32 am
Quote from: Jeremy Payne
Must be some screen ... I have essentially 20/10 vision and can't always nail it in the viewfinder.  My hit rate with LV is 100%, my hit rate with my eyes is significantly lower than that.

Yep, same thing here.

There are of course times when I manage to focus well manually without using live view, but the key notion is that of reliability. My personnal rough assessment is that I loose average between 5 and 30% of resolution in critical areas when I don't use live view. That is using one of the best lenses available (Zeiss 100mm f2.0, very bright and designed for manual focus) on the best tripod and head.

Just to give one example, the difference between perfect focus and inifitniy focus for far objects correponds to a linear movement of the focus ring of about .5mm and I see no difference at all in the viewfinder...

I am very impressed by those who are able to do these things on a regular basis without live view in whatever weather, luminosity or wind conditons. They have near sur-human abilities and should IMHO lobby for the addition of accurate manual focusing as an Olympic discipline.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on March 31, 2010, 03:03:32 am
Quote from: ziocan
Well, LV will definitively be very useful if you shoot on tripod on front of a flower or a waterfall and have all the time of the world to peep on it, but how many photographers actually use their cameras like that?

I suggest a trip to Japan...

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: K.C. on March 31, 2010, 03:13:20 am
Maybe it's from all the years I looked down into the top of a Hasselblad and focused without anything other than a set of crosshairs on ground glass and seldom missed a shot. I certainly don't have perfect vision now in my 50s but I keep forgetting to use LV on the 5DII and don't bother with it half the time I do remember it's there.

I Love my A850 and prefer it any day over the Canon. LV is a mute point once you've worked with the A900 or A850. When the new body comes along next year, and has LV, that won't be reason enough to upgrade.

Flame me if you like, but it sounds silly and childish to hear anyone wanking about it.

Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: Theresa on March 31, 2010, 07:29:32 am
Quote from: K.C.
Maybe it's from all the years I looked down into the top of a Hasselblad and focused without anything other than a set of crosshairs on ground glass and seldom missed a shot. I certainly don't have perfect vision now in my 50s but I keep forgetting to use LV on the 5DII and don't bother with it half the time I do remember it's there.

I Love my A850 and prefer it any day over the Canon. LV is a mute point once you've worked with the A900 or A850. When the new body comes along next year, and has LV, that won't be reason enough to upgrade.

Flame me if you like, but it sounds silly and childish to hear anyone wanking about it.

I agree.  I would not buy an "upgraded" a9?? to replace my a850 for quite a while.  I am still just learning the camera and everything I've done with it so far would not be improved by an upgrade.  I'm certain that many out there, especially those that use a tripod would find LV very useful, but I'm not one of them at this time.  I also would not be served by better JPEGs as I only shoot raw.  I look forward to the a9?? because I believe it will be a great new draw for Sony.  No matter, my a850 suits me to a tee.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ziocan on March 31, 2010, 07:41:03 am
Quote from: BernardLanguillier
I suggest a trip to Japan...

Cheers,
Bernard
I go to tokyo quite often.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on March 31, 2010, 04:41:38 pm
Quote from: ziocan
I go to tokyo quite often.

Hum... the millions of tripods used in Japan tend to prefer the countryside.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: Fine_Art on April 03, 2010, 10:09:14 am
Quote from: fredjeang
Hi,
Well I have to say that Mike's wondering is apropriate.
I've heard very good critics from the A900 and A850 users, (starting from this website) and I thought that it would be very nice to have other choices than CaNikon.
But the "sad" reality is that thinking long term, CaNikon are the most reliable 35mm FF players.

Let's take the second-hand market for example. Here in Spain and also in France, there is a huge volume of accessories, lenses etc...in the second-hand market from Nikon and Canon. The volume of opoprtunities from Minolta, Sony is much discrete, and the lens range is limited. That is a point.

The CaNikon buyer knows that their gear's offers are stables and that the lenses you invest in, will always be served by constant up-dated bodies.
The vague comunication from Sony is not very encouraging, and it is possible that they might be interested in develloping other market (EVIL).
So, yes, wonderfull gear, but when it's time to buy I would wonder about the future of that system in the time.

I've been very attracted at one point by the Sony, unfortunately, if I had to invest in a FF 35mm now, I'll choose Canon or Nikon: no hassle, no worries, and an enormous amount of lenses and accessories new and second-hand for any kind of purpose.
That is a very important factor.

Fred.

I had no problem buying quality primes on ebay. My 20, 50, 100, 135, 180, 300G (with 1.4, 2x teles) are all stabilized. I have zooms as well that i almost never use.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ziocan on April 03, 2010, 11:40:48 pm
One suggestion that I have for who is interested on a FF Sony, or any Sony DSLR, is of using only Sony/Zeiss and Minolta lenses.
Using anything else, it will defeat the whole purpose of having a Sony camera.

I have seen images from a900 taken with Sigma lenses and they do not look any different from images taken with a a Nikon or a Canon with a Sigma.
I know Sigma and Tokina lenses are very popular because of their price and some copies of those lenses are decent, but the look of the images they delivers is very uninteresting and cannot compare with Sony lenses.

Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: Dan Vincent on April 04, 2010, 07:48:22 am
Quote from: ziocan
One suggestion that I have for who is interested on a FF Sony, or any Sony DSLR, is of using only Sony/Zeiss and Minolta lenses.
Using anything else, it will defeat the whole purpose of having a Sony camera.

I have seen images from a900 taken with Sigma lenses and they do not look any different from images taken with a a Nikon or a Canon with a Sigma.
I know Sigma and Tokina lenses are very popular because of their price and some copies of those lenses are decent, but the look of the images they delivers is very uninteresting and cannot compare with Sony lenses.

You''re forgetting that all Sigma/Tamron/Tokina lenses get image stabilization on Sony. This makes the non-stabilized 70-200s a very good competition to the more expensive Sony 70-200.

Now that Sigma and Tamron are getting on the IS/VC/whatever train some of that advantage may dissipate, but it is not something to ignore, especially on shorter lenses.

Now, if people were looking at Sigma 50-500s, for instance, I'd tell them to save the dough and get a 70-400G instead because that lens is just so much better in many ways.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: aaykay on April 04, 2010, 08:39:32 pm
I believe they are replacing the A900.  In fact, they have already done it months back........with the A850.  Ever since the release of the A850, all Sony was doing was running down the existing stock of the A900.  Once the stock is used up, the model is as good as gone.

This is because, IMHO, Sony misjudged the importance of 5FPS (in a 24.6MP camera) which simply is unavailable in anything close to its price range and also the 100% Full-frame OVF, which too is unavailable in anything but all-out professional models.  None of the professional reviewers or anybody else gave ANY credit whatsoever to Sony, for including these super-premium features  that were only available in all-out professional models, at the price-point the A900 was being sold for.  So all Sony is doing, is a "market segment adjustment", by retaining almost everything that came with the A900 in its "replacement" model, the A850, and downgrading a couple of its super-premium features (to the level offered by its true competitors - the Canon 5DII et al) by bringing down the FPS to 3 (roughly similar to the 3.9 in a 21MP camera like the 5DII) and bringing down the OVF accuracy to 98%.

As far as a purchaser is concerned, the A900 is a superb bargain and if they can pick one up for what it is being sold for currently, it is well worth it.  And if they can live without 5FPS or the 100% OVF (which is the only discernible difference between the A900 and A850), its literal TWIN, the A850 should also be seriously considered.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: aaykay on April 04, 2010, 08:48:19 pm
Quote from: JeffKohn
IMHO the only reason somebody using a high-MP DSLR for tripod-based shooting wouldn't want live-view is because they've never used it. There is no better way to achieve critical focus on a DSLR than live-view. That's especially true for manual-focus and tilt/shift lenses, but even with AF lenses I've found the contrast-based live-view AF to be more precise than phase-detect AF. Plus you can set your focus point anywhere in the frame. And the higher the MP count in a camera, the more important focus accuracy becomes.

And I don't buy the 'cost' argument. Entry-level consumer DSLR's and P&S cameras have had live-view for years, it certainly wouldn't have affected the price point of the a900. Sony left it out because they mis-judged it's value to shooters in this market segment. The lower-level Sony's have a much-praised "live-mos" LV implementation that is great for hand-held, P&S-style shooting; but when Sony couldn't scale that up to full-frame they said they'd rather wait to add LV until they could do it "right". But LV isn't for P&S-style hand-held shooting in a camera like the a900, the whole point is being able to focus off the main sensor, so their argument that LV off the main sensor isn't worth bothering with is completely wrong-headed. Fact is since the time-frame of the Nikon D300/D3, LV has become a standard feature in CMOS-based DSLR's, with the two Sony full-frames being the only exception that I can think of.

As for the "preview" function Sony added in lieu of LV, all it really does is fave you the step of manually deleting your test shot. A small convenience, but hardly ground-breaking or indispensable IMHO.

I agree completely with the above.  I believe it was absolutely stupid of Sony to not include LV in the A900 (or A850).  Clearly, the circuitry to enable LV is already present in the sensor, since the basic sensor was then used in the D3X, which did come with LV.  Which is why I believe Sony deliberately did not enable LV in the A900 but can do so - even now, if they wish - via a firmware upgrade.  The "hardware" component of LV (the circuitry) is very much present in the A900/A850 sensors and simply need a firmware enable-ment.

As an A900 owner, I just love the product and the superb OVF, but do acknowledge that Sony was stupid to not include LV in the A900.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on April 04, 2010, 10:00:46 pm
Hi,

My guess is that it's not the sensor but probably the "Bionz" engine that does not support LV.

Best regards
Erik



Quote from: aaykay
I agree completely with the above.  I believe it was absolutely stupid of Sony to not include LV in the A900 (or A850).  Clearly, the circuitry to enable LV is already present in the sensor, since the basic sensor was then used in the D3X, which did come with LV.  Which is why I believe Sony deliberately did not enable LV in the A900 but can do so - even now, if they wish - via a firmware upgrade.  The "hardware" component of LV (the circuitry) is very much present in the A900/A850 sensors and simply need a firmware enable-ment.

As an A900 owner, I just love the product and the superb OVF, but do acknowledge that Sony was stupid to not include LV in the A900.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: douglasf13 on April 05, 2010, 10:21:13 pm
To correct a couple of things mentioned,  the last three Sony APS-C cameras (A450, A500, A550)  have both main sensor and "quick" live view, and old Minolta manual lenses only fit on Sony if you do a mount replacement procedure.

As far as the A900 is concerned, main sensor live view would probably be handy, but, like is the case for MFDB users, it's not the end of the world.  It's pretty easy to shoot and check focus on the lcd when mounted on a tripod.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ziocan on April 05, 2010, 11:37:45 pm
Quote from: aaykay
I believe they are replacing the A900.  In fact, they have already done it months back........with the A850.  Ever since the release of the A850, all Sony was doing was running down the existing stock of the A900.  Once the stock is used up, the model is as good as gone.

This is because, IMHO, Sony misjudged the importance of 5FPS (in a 24.6MP camera) which simply is unavailable in anything close to its price range and also the 100% Full-frame OVF, which too is unavailable in anything but all-out professional models.  None of the professional reviewers or anybody else gave ANY credit whatsoever to Sony, for including these super-premium features  that were only available in all-out professional models, at the price-point the A900 was being sold for.  So all Sony is doing, is a "market segment adjustment", by retaining almost everything that came with the A900 in its "replacement" model, the A850, and downgrading a couple of its super-premium features (to the level offered by its true competitors - the Canon 5DII et al) by bringing down the FPS to 3 (roughly similar to the 3.9 in a 21MP camera like the 5DII) and bringing down the OVF accuracy to 98%.

As far as a purchaser is concerned, the A900 is a superb bargain and if they can pick one up for what it is being sold for currently, it is well worth it.  And if they can live without 5FPS or the 100% OVF (which is the only discernible difference between the A900 and A850), its literal TWIN, the A850 should also be seriously considered.
You are some what right about the a850. on 90% of cases we do not need anything more than what it can offer.
Anyway, I would not consider 100% view finder, 5 fps as super premium features, for some people are a necessity. I would have paid the premium for the 5fps and 100% VF even if the a850 was already there when the a900 started shipping.
It is great that Sony offers the a850 for a bargain price, but with the a900, the line up look more professional.

The a900 as is , feels and works as good replacement for the 1ds3 and in many cases also for the Nikon. For those who prefer the Sony and Zeiss lenses to those of the others makers, it is also a better solution and not just because of the price. the lower price of the Sony was just a bonus to me and was not an element for making my buying decision.

As for the a850 having "replaced" the a900, I do not think is the case, if you go to any Sony style around the world, they have the an a900 on display to play with at all the times and not necessarily the a850 and on their windows there always is the large poster with the a900.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: douglasf13 on April 06, 2010, 11:57:51 am
I could be wrong, but, AFAIK, the A850 isn't even available in Japan. Only the A900 is available.
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: K.C. on April 09, 2010, 12:48:58 am
Quote from: douglasf13
I could be wrong, but, AFAIK, the A850 isn't even available in Japan. Only the A900 is available.

Why do you post speculation ?

How is that a useful contribution ?

Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on April 09, 2010, 08:26:41 am
That's a statement, not speculation. It may be correct or wrong.

Best Regards
Erik


Quote from: K.C.
Why do you post speculation ?

How is that a useful contribution ?
Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: ThomasKeenan on April 10, 2010, 11:22:38 pm
Concur, A850 not officially available in Japan.

* Not on Sony JP web-page.
http://www.sony.jp/dslr/ (http://www.sony.jp/dslr/)

* Not found on kakaku.com or Amazon JP

* not on display in Sony Ginza show-room.

* Never saw in any store, Yodobashi, Bic, Yamada Denki, MapCamera etc...

BTW Prices on A900 are approx $2.1K USD now.

Perhaps there may be a grey market, like the outrageously priced name brand CF memory cards thru traditional retailers, but not aware and would very much complicate service and support.

While there is an A847 available it is a walkman, with main compelling feature for local market, displaying lyrics while song playing, for those J-pop songs which service is available and for a small fee to download lyrics.
http://www.sony.jp/playyou/eventmovie.html (http://www.sony.jp/playyou/eventmovie.html)



Title: Sony A900 replacement?
Post by: douglasf13 on April 11, 2010, 08:32:20 pm
Quote from: K.C.
Why do you post speculation ?

How is that a useful contribution ?


I could be wrong, but, AFAIK, your post is the one that provides no contribution to this thread.    


As far as my post is concerned, it seemed relevant, considering some are speculating that A850 replaced the A900 all together.  I've heard from a few sources that the A850 is not available in Japan, but, not having been there, I can't confirm that myself.