Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Lightroom Q&A => Topic started by: John Hollenberg on March 23, 2010, 12:05:05 am
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The Beta 2 has been released as of 9:00 PM PDT. See this post by Ian Lyons for a great preview of the new features:
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/lr3_beta_...lr3-beta2-1.htm (http://www.computer-darkroom.com/lr3_beta_2_preview/lr3-beta2-1.htm)
Get the beta here:
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/lightroom3/?sdid=FBTFC (http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/lightroom3/?sdid=FBTFC)
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Whoo-Hoo! Point curve editor!
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*cough* soft proofing? *cough*
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*cough* soft proofing? *cough*
well we know it's not everything, let's just hope there is actually really some bigger things when LR3 ships.
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*cough* soft proofing? *cough*
Need a good cough syrup?
Me too!
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*cough* soft proofing? *cough*
*cough* can you say reason for $99 upgrade price (SP)*cough* when the gold finally gets here.
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Adobe LR2 and PSCS4 work correctly with Apple's new printing path and yet they release the second beta of LR3 with the old problem of forcing the driver to colorsync and double profiling when application manages color is selected. At least with the Canon iPF drivers that work correctly with LR2 and PSCS4.
This is crazy that they do not have LR3 beta 2 printing the same as LR2 and PSCS4 which Adobe has constantly insisted they have programed correctly per Apple's instruction, and does work correctly by turning of CM in the driver instead of forcing the driver to colorsync and double profiling as the LR3 betas do.
Doyle
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Just in case you are interested there is a video out.
What's New In Lightroom 3 Beta 2
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/what-s-new-in-li...troom-3-beta-2/ (http://tv.adobe.com/watch/what-s-new-in-lightroom-3-beta/whats-new-in-lightroom-3-beta-2/)
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Adobe LR2 and PSCS4 work correctly with Apple's new printing path and yet they release the second beta of LR3 with the old problem of forcing the driver to colorsync and double profiling when application manages color is selected. At least with the Canon iPF drivers that work correctly with LR2 and PSCS4.
This is crazy that they do not have LR3 beta 2 printing the same as LR2 and PSCS4 which Adobe has constantly insisted they have programed correctly per Apple's instruction, and does work correctly by turning of CM in the driver instead of forcing the driver to colorsync and double profiling as the LR3 betas do.
Doyle
Doyle- maybe true, but Apple is "soon" to release 10.6.3 which early indications are it "deals" with 3rd party printing. Maybe they have worked behind the scenes (both companies) so that with the release of both updates the problem is fixed. We can only hope.
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Doyle- maybe true, but Apple is "soon" to release 10.6.3 which early indications are it "deals" with 3rd party printing. Maybe they have worked behind the scenes (both companies) so that with the release of both updates the problem is fixed. We can only hope.
Considering past experience that is a lot to hope for. But, if so I hope it does not make changes to printing from PSCS4 and LR2.
Doyle
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Adobe LR2 and PSCS4 work correctly with Apple's new printing path and yet they release the second beta of LR3 with the old problem of forcing the driver to colorsync and double profiling when application manages color is selected.
I’m not sure I understand, can you show a screen capture (I’m using Epson drivers). Is this in the LR app or the driver?
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I’m not sure I understand, can you show a screen capture (I’m using Epson drivers). Is this in the LR app or the driver?
Here you go.
Doyle
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Here you go.
Doyle
Thanks. So I’m not sure what you are referring to. The 2nd dialog where it says Matching Mode: ColorSync??
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Thanks. So I’m not sure what you are referring to. The 2nd dialog where it says Matching Mode: ColorSync??
The dialog where it says Color/Matching Mode ColorSync is from LR3 and causes double profiling.
The dialog that says No color correction is from LR2 and turns off color management in the driver. This is the same as PSCS4. This does not cause double profiling.
Doyle
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http://www.macworld.co.uk/procreative/news...NewsID=3218063: (http://www.macworld.co.uk/procreative/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=3218063:)
New features in this Lightroom 3 beta 2 includes tethered shooting support for select Nikon and Canon cameras,
the ability to import and manage video files from DSLR cameras for a streamlined workflow
and additional behind-the-scenes architecture enhancements for faster importing and loading of images.
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The dialog where it says Color/Matching Mode ColorSync is from LR3 and causes double profiling.
The dialog that says No color correction is from LR2 and turns off color management in the driver. This is the same as PSCS4. This does not cause double profiling.
Doyle
Is this issue specific to Snow Leopard, or will it occur in Leopard as well? All Epson printers (I have a 3880)?
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The dialog where it says Color/Matching Mode ColorSync is from LR3 and causes double profiling.
The dialog that says No color correction is from LR2 and turns off color management in the driver. This is the same as PSCS4. This does not cause double profiling.
Sorry, I’m still not clear. Here’s what I see in both LR2 and LR3 for the Epson driver in terms of ColorSync (vs. the non CS “sRGB path), is that what you’re referring to but in the Canon driver:
(http://digitaldog.net/files/LR2vs3.jpg)
When you say double profiling, the print is coming out real ugly right?
At least with the Epson driver, there is a setting that you are supposed to use called “No Color Adjustment” with profiles. Is that akin to what you refer to as “No Color Correction” in your driver? For Epson, the user has to set this. LR should remember that setting. Are you saying that in LR 3 its not and it is remembering to set it in LR2?
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Sorry, I’m still not clear. Here’s what I see in both LR2 and LR3 for the Epson driver in terms of ColorSync (vs. the non CS “sRGB path), is that what you’re referring to but in the Canon driver:
When you say double profiling, the print is coming out real ugly right?
At least with the Epson driver, there is a setting that you are supposed to use called “No Color Adjustment” with profiles. Is that akin to what you refer to as “No Color Correction” in your driver? For Epson, the user has to set this. LR should remember that setting. Are you saying that in LR 3 its not and it is remembering to set it in LR2?
With Apple's new printing path and drivers that support 10.5 or 10.6 Color Matching will default to ColorSync when choosing application manages color. In the Canon iPF drivers under Main/Color it should default to "No color correction" which is what LR2 and PSCS4 does. But in LR3 Main/Color default to Color and then under Set/Matching it is forced to ColorSync which results in double profiling.
In the Epson drivers are you able to make the same setting in the driver when LR2 or LR3 in managing color?
I might add that this seems to be the exact same problem that LR2.3 RC exhibited but was fixed in the FR and has not shown up in a further 2. releases.
Oh and it gets even better. Now you can no longer choose Vendor Matching under Color Matching when first selecting Print Settings and then be able to select Print One without be forced to colorsync and double profiling. This was one workaround before.
Doyle
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With Apple's new printing path and drivers that support 10.5 or 10.6 Color Matching will default to ColorSync when choosing application manages color.
I think the two key words above is “and drivers”.
In the Canon iPF drivers under Main/Color it should default to "No color correction" which is what LR2 and PSCS4 does. But in LR3 Main/Color default to Color and then under Set/Matching it is forced to ColorSync which results in double profiling.
Even if you set it and tell LR to “save...”? At least on the Epson‘s I have, this works.
In the Epson drivers are you able to make the same setting in the driver when LR2 or LR3 in managing color?
Yes. But one issue again is “and drivers” because depending on the printer driver version, it might not. I don’t know this is necessarily LRs fault.
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I just printed the same document using color management in LR3 and LR2, the results are identical as were the setting of course. Epson 3880.
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I think the two key words above is “and drivers”.
Even if you set it and tell LR to “save...”? At least on the Epson‘s I have, this works.
Yes. But one issue again is “and drivers” because depending on the printer driver version, it might not. I don’t know this is necessarily LRs fault.
But only Adobe changed something here. The question is why, when printing worked just fine with Epson drivers and Canon drivers in LR2.
Doyle
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But only Adobe changed something here. The question is why, when printing worked just fine with Epson drivers and Canon drivers in LR2.
Doyle
I don’t know the answer to that question. It could be that the change fixes other drivers and their issues, or in my case, makes no difference at all. Multiple companies (Apple, Adobe, Epson and apparently Canon) are all moving the goal posts here, that’s why these print issues are so hard to nail. But it has been pointless to point a finger of blame because in some cases, a tweak in code in one place fixes issues (and in other breaks them). All I can tell you is the behavior and output is identical in all the Adobe apps to my Epsons.
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I just printed the same document using color management in LR3 and LR2, the results are identical as were the setting of course. Epson 3880.
Andrew- would you be willing to perform the same test with the 2880? And if yes, are you using the Mac driver (6.62) from the Epson web site, or 8.17 from the "automatic" Apple download. Thanks in advance.
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Andrew- would you be willing to perform the same test with the 2880? And if yes, are you using the Mac driver (6.62) from the Epson web site, or 8.17 from the "automatic" Apple download. Thanks in advance.
Actually, that’s a typo on my part, the test was done on a 2880 (not 3880). The driver used is 8.1.7.
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Actually, that’s a typo on my part, the test was done on a 2880 (not 3880). The driver used is 8.1.7.
My experience is the same as yours. I downloaded LR3b2 and tested with the "same" settings as LR2.6. Prints are identical to each other and the monitor soft proofed image. Hopefully when Apple releases 10.6.3, results will not change.
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My experience is the same as yours. I downloaded LR3b2 and tested with the "same" settings as LR2.6. Prints are identical to each other and the monitor soft proofed image. Hopefully when Apple releases 10.6.3, results will not change.
Well here we go around, and around, and around again. Something has been changed and something else now needs to change again.
Doyle
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I guess the peanut gallery could be forgiven for assuming that a final release is not likely for a while now, as they say that they are still soliciting feedback. Take your time, Adobe, as you shoehorn in soft proofing and tethered capture for Phase One backs.
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Dunno about the printing as I do all of that through photoshop, but in terms of speed - I'd say that it's twice as fast in loading the program/catalog and twice as fast in rendering files to work on - all on my old dual core, dual Opteron system. Very impressive speed boost!
Also, the noise reduction is pretty amazing!
Bravo Adobe!
*steve
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I don’t know the answer to that question. It could be that the change fixes other drivers and their issues, or in my case, makes no difference at all. Multiple companies (Apple, Adobe, Epson and apparently Canon) are all moving the goal posts here, that’s why these print issues are so hard to nail. But it has been pointless to point a finger of blame because in some cases, a tweak in code in one place fixes issues (and in other breaks them). All I can tell you is the behavior and output is identical in all the Adobe apps to my Epsons.
I think we got to the bottom of this one. Check the end of this thread.
http://forums.adobe.com/message/2479324#2479324 (http://forums.adobe.com/message/2479324#2479324)
Interesting thing that Canon did to get around these issues but then it come back to bite them.
Doyle
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I think we got to the bottom of this one. Check the end of this thread.
http://forums.adobe.com/message/2479324#2479324 (http://forums.adobe.com/message/2479324#2479324)
Interesting thing that Canon did to get around these issues but then it comes back to bite them.
Doyle
I edited the AppColorMatchingInfo.xml file and added Canon's DPP (which had defaulted to ColorSync in the driver) to the file and now I have No color correction in the driver with DPP.
Now I am going to do some test printing later today or maybe tomorrow morning.
Doyle
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I may very well be missing something in the methodology, but in trying to use the new point curve tone control, I'm able to place new points, just like PS, but am only able to edit them by sliding my cursor up and down in the image or on the histogram. When I select a point in PS, I have an option of nudging the point in any direction with my arrow keys, as long as it is selected. In LR 3b2, I find that fine tuning the curve is difficult with the point curve because the physical manipulation of the points in the histogram window is a little coarse, and when I go to slide an adjustment up or down within my image, it often places a new point right next to the old one. In trying to select the extra point that did not want, even when the point is selected and dark, the delete key deletes the entire image instead of the adjustment point. I can undo the action, but I'm puzzled by why they would only halfway implement Photoshop's operating procedures with this option they have now given us. Am I missing something? Often the parametric curves are better, but sometimes I feel the need for more specificity, and am quite comfortable with how Photoshop works in this regard. If you don't abuse it and make an overly lumpy curve, it is a nice option to have.
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Just watched Julieanne Kost (http://tv.adobe.com/watch/what-s-new-in-lightroom-3-beta/whats-new-in-lightroom-3-beta-2/)'s new video on LR3B2, and the new features look exciting. I've already downloaded and installed, but haven't really dug into it yet. Terry White (http://tv.adobe.com/watch/creative-suite-podcast-photographers/lightroom-3-public-beta-2-whats-new) also has a video. However, since this IS a Beta and Adobe IS asking for feedback:
Lightroom 3 Beta forums (http://forums.adobe.com/community/labs/lightroom3)
Tom Hogarty's Feature Request/ Bug Report page (https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform)
Mike.
P.S. I've added these to my Lightroom Links (http://bit.ly/4XuaXE) page too (links to over a hundred different sites)
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Hi Colorwave, please try using alt/option key while dragging points on the curve. Should give you finer control for adjustments.
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Hi Colorwave, please try using alt/option key while dragging points on the curve. Should give you finer control for adjustments.
Thanks for the quick reply and tip, Eric. I guess that is in line with other controls within Lightroom. It does indeed constrain the response of moving a point on the curve, although I still can't figure out how to reedit a curve and delete a specific point. Years of nudging points with the keyboard in Photoshop have left me imprinted, and I find Photoshop's implementation still seems to have more control for me. I love the way both applications allow me to click on a value and make larger scale edits by dragging, but sometimes I need to split hairs. I know that the unwashed masses always need something to bitch about, but I would prefer that the tools be significantly different between the two applications (i.e. the crop tool) or as close in functionality as possible, and find 80% similarity to be an awkward overlap of methods to adapt to.
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Hi Ron, I think you can cmd-click / ctrl-click a given point on the curve to delete it.
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As a follow up to the printing tests.
I could edit the Canon driver AppColorMatchingInfo.xml file and change the printing behavior for LR3 B2, and it printed correctly. But doing the same thing for Canon's DPP software to make No color correction show up instead of ColorSync did not print correctly. It appears to be double profiling.
I will wait for 10.6.3 before I dig into this any further.
Doyle
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Doyle, you see this:
http://www.macworld.com/article/150073/201...l?lsrc=rss_main (http://www.macworld.com/article/150073/2010/03/canonprinterdrivers.html?lsrc=rss_main)
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Doyle, you see this:
http://www.macworld.com/article/150073/201...l?lsrc=rss_main (http://www.macworld.com/article/150073/2010/03/canonprinterdrivers.html?lsrc=rss_main)
Thanks, but these are for the little printers not the iPF series.
Doyle
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Thanks, but these are for the little printers not the iPF series.
Doyle
I read thought the list and I did not see any IPF printers listed either.