Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: KenBabcock on February 05, 2010, 11:44:37 am
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Hello folks!
My very first post here. Glad I found this board. You'll be seeing me here often
My name is Ken. I live in Guelph, Ontario. That is about an hour or so NW of Toronto. I've been a traditional oil painting artist for 25 years (I'm 34 now). I got into photography a few years ago as a hobby (like I need more hobbies, only got a dozen or so now - LOL). I've been printing on canvas for about 5 years. I started with an Epson 2200 and upgraded to a 7600. I reproduce some of my art work and photographs on canvas.
So far I've been using Canon canvas. I've tried PremierART and Bulldog canvases in the past. They're both extremely yellow in appearance compared to the Canon. However, Canon canvas is VERY stiff. It's almost impossible to stretch over stretcher bars without first wetting the edges with water. I do like the appearance and texture of Canon canvas because it is very realistic to the traditional canvas I've used for oil painting. The Bulldog canvas is pretty smooth and doesn't really look like canvas, but rather more like little dots or diamonds that have been pressed by machine into fabric. Not very attractive at all.
Right now I've got a few customers who order canvas prints from me. I'd like to expand that further and hopefully create some sort of a small business or even extra cash to pay for my hobby at least. I'm a teacher (recent grad after changing careers) and only work part time thanks to the economic downturn. Finding full time employment as a teacher may take a few years, so ideally I'd like to supplement my income with some printing.
So, what I'm looking for are some suggestions for canvas. I've looked into most brands (Epson, Canon, Bulldog, Fredrix, Breathing Color, and many more). The problem is that I can't look at or feel the canvas, obviously, before buying. Canvas is way too expensive to be trying out, like I found out with Bulldog. I'm looking for something that is toothy like canvas should be, bright white, easy to work with without having to drench in water to soften, and not too glossy. I like matte canvas so that I can spray a satin finish over it later. I'm not a fan of the super glossy surface like Epson has. Price is also a consideration too. I can't go too pricey otherwise customers balk at the cost of the canvas prints.
Any suggestions on canvas and if so where you personally purchase from and the price?
BTW I should mention that I just filled out an online form to receive a sample pack from Fredrix, so at least I will get to see the texture and feel before committing to purchase a full roll.
Thanks for any help!
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Hi Ken;
I am using a BF Injet Canvas for my clients these days. I have been getting it through http://www.sunrisempc.com/ (http://www.sunrisempc.com/) who are in your neck of the woods. The only downside to this product is I have clean the cloth dust out of the 9880 before printing on paper again. Reasonably priced and they provide iffy ICC profiles. I had to tune the ICC profile a bit to get the results my clients wanted. Hope that helps.
BF website
http://www.bfinkjet.com/docs/home/home.asp (http://www.bfinkjet.com/docs/home/home.asp)
Mark Prins
Inanda Images
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Welcome Ken!
If you search the forum you'll find several threads that discuss the various canvas options. Breathing Color Lyve is pretty popular, and they sell nice little test rolls (17"x20' for example) at very reasonable prices so you can test it out before committing to a full roll. I don't print on canvas much, but the stuff I have done on Lyve has turned out very nicely.
Neil
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Thanks for the suggestions.
I have looked into the Breathing Color Chroma White and Lyve before. However, the shipping charges to Canada are crazy. Plus, they only ship via UPS, which I refuse to use. UPS charges "brokerage fees" that are usually around the same price as the product itself when delivered in Canada.
Does the Chroma White and Lyve crack any at all when folding corners?
It doesn't crack if you coat it properly prior to stretching. You might try calling Breathing Color and seeing if they'll ship to you by USPS. No brokerage fees that way, and they still get to Canada relatively quickly. I agree, UPS (and FedEx) ground shipping to Canada is a total ripoff.
Neil
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I am conditionally fond of Fredrix 777. Has a symmetrical, non-corrugated, rather fine texture that makes sharp prints (for a canvas). By "non corrugated" I mean the texture looks the same if I rotate the canvas 90 degrees. Has brighteners, but not to the extreme. Compared to Lyve has better gamut in the medium and brighter tones, and less gamut in the dark tones...which IMHO makes it a good canvas for artwork giclees. I always glue it to Gatorfoam but I am told by others that it stretches well and it feels very supple even when coated. Takes GlamourII very well. By controlling the first coat I can either bring out or suppress the texture to a considerable degree. Like all the canvases I have used there is some batch-to-batch variation in the canvas. For instance just right now the 24, 36 and 44 inch rolls I have are all slightly different in texture and brightness. But to its credit it does not have the highly polarized, "corrugated" texture that is the only thing that prevents me from using Lyve. Fredrix 901 is very similar but with a little more texture. About $110 shipped in the US per 24"x40' roll, and I know where you can get it for $100 in small quantities of rolls.
There is a well regarded Canadian canvas manufacturer, doh! the name eludes me. I've still got a 36" roll of "Can 901" I bought a while ago with a return address of "Ontario Specialty Coatings Corporation" but that's not the official company name. Very nice canvas btw, but has a little too much corrugation for me.
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Thanks for the suggestions.
I have looked into the Breathing Color Chroma White and Lyve before. However, the shipping charges to Canada are crazy. Plus, they only ship via UPS, which I refuse to use. UPS charges "brokerage fees" that are usually around the same price as the product itself when delivered in Canada.
Does the Chroma White and Lyve crack any at all when folding corners?
Vistek also carries the Breathing Color line, I believe the closest store to guelph is in Mississauga. Not sure how their prices compare to US pricing though, as I can honestly say that I've never priced out media across the border(perhaps I should...my 44" roll of epson's premium satin canvas is almost out)
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Canvas is what we do. I have not tried them all but sure have tried my share. We started with a half dozen rolls of Epson's satin and matte. Next we tried Breathing Colors Chroma white and Lyve for several month trials
We then moved on to Lexjet. Matte,Satin and Instant Dry Satin. We settled on the Lexjet Matte. Fantastic stuff and at .92 a sq. ft. it beats everything out there from a cost standpoint. Stretches easy,smooth texture and the colors printed from both the 7900 and 9900 are of the highest standard . Best of all we can control the final sheen with our Glamor II coatings so the Matte canvas is all we need to buy. Usually a 80% gloss 20% satin for a nice semi gloss finish. Some of these other canvases that we have used all have something good about each one. The bottom line is the higher cost versus any visual benefit from these other canvas products just is not there. In our gallery I have at least 40 canvas prints hanging. You can walk around that room and it is almost impossible to pick one canvas from another. I think I may have somewhere between 4 and 6 different canvases on the wall and you just cannot tell them apart. Not saying fussing over a canvas choice is over rated but if I have trouble picking one from another you know the client can't either.
We were that impressed with Lexjet that they now sponsor our "2010 Canvas Workshops"
Give Kelly at Lexjet a call for some samples.
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Your question is very interesting. I've tried several types of canvas products, and they all have strengths and weaknesses.
One thing I've been focused on lately is how I finish the print - in other words, coatings, sprays, enhancements, etc.
I've been using the HP Professional Matte Canvas lately with good results. Very smooth color palette, good screen to print match, it stretches nicely, and it accepts both aqueous liquid coatings (like Premier Eco Print Shield) and at least some of the solvent based sprays, like Hahnemuhle.
Cost is kind of middle of the road; it is handled by relatively few dealers. If you want a couple of referrals contact me off-list via email.
David
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Vistek also carries the Breathing Color line, I believe the closest store to guelph is in Mississauga. Not sure how their prices compare to US pricing though, as I can honestly say that I've never priced out media across the border(perhaps I should...my 44" roll of epson's premium satin canvas is almost out)
I use Breathing Color media, and it's _way_ cheaper to order from the US - particularly if you can order 10 rolls at once.
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Thanks for the suggestions.
I have looked into the Breathing Color Chroma White and Lyve before. However, the shipping charges to Canada are crazy. Plus, they only ship via UPS, which I refuse to use. UPS charges "brokerage fees" that are usually around the same price as the product itself when delivered in Canada.
Does the Chroma White and Lyve crack any at all when folding corners?
There is another distributor of Breathing Color in Canada. Look up Amplis Foto out of Markham Ontario. The Lyve canvas for 24" x 40' is priced at:
1 roll at $162.00
3+ rolls at 135.00 / roll
10+ rolls at 119.00 / roll
That is in Canadian dollars. Shipping obviously varies depending on how many rolls and where you are located.
I have used Amplis without any problems. Give them a try if you are in Canada and want to use Breathing Color products.
harry
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There is another distributor of Breathing Color in Canada. Look up Amplis Foto out of Markham Ontario. The Lyve canvas for 24" x 40' is priced at:
1 roll at $162.00
3+ rolls at 135.00 / roll
10+ rolls at 119.00 / roll
That is in Canadian dollars. Shipping obviously varies depending on how many rolls and where you are located.
I have used Amplis without any problems. Give them a try if you are in Canada and want to use Breathing Color products.
harry
Thanks for the info on Amplis. I am looking for a Canadian distributor as well......
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It is always difficult when you are not located in an area rich with suppliers. So why not search for and email suppliers, describe your plans and needs, as you have above, and ask for some sample swatches to evaluate?
Businesses are looking for customers and most will do anything within reason to obtain a new customer.
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Canvas is what we do. I have not tried them all but sure have tried my share. We started with a half dozen rolls of Epson's satin and matte. Next we tried Breathing Colors Chroma white and Lyve for several month trials
We then moved on to Lexjet. Matte,Satin and Instant Dry Satin. We settled on the Lexjet Matte. Fantastic stuff and at .92 a sq. ft. it beats everything out there from a cost standpoint. Stretches easy,smooth texture and the colors printed from both the 7900 and 9900 are of the highest standard .
Dan, Lexjet lists these three types of canvas on their web site, and two types of mat. Which mat are you using? From your experience, what is the difference in the two types of mat canvas?
Lexjet Instant Dry Satin
LexJet Sunset Select Matte Canvas
LexJet Universal Photo Canvas Matte
Breathing Color heavily markets the fact that Lyve doesn't have OBAs. Does Lexjet canvas? Does it matter if the canvas is coated? Does that provide the same level of protection, if a gallery wrap is used with no glass, as the use of UV glass with paper prints?
Dan and anyone else --
Have you tried PremierArt Eco Print Shield? The on-line explanatory video for Eco Print Shield says that it must be applied three times if you roll it on. The video is also confusing. It says that the mat and satin contain "diffusing agents." But the video states that you don't need those agents for all three coats or the result is milky blacks. So it seems to be suggesting that the first two coats should be gloss, and the third application would be satin or mat if that is the final finish you want. But the dumb video doesn't say that explicitly, and the directions for spaying appear to suggest that you spray once using one finish. Can anyone confirm whether three coats are needed? For satin, do you apply three satin coats, or two gloss and a final satin?
How does Eco Print Shield compare to Glamour II? Especially for rolling. One coat or three? Ease of application, especially with rollers? Quality of the product? Appearance in the final print?
Dan and others, thanks for any responses.
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Dan, Lexjet lists these three types of canvas on their web site, and two types of mat. Which mat are you using? From your experience, what is the difference in the two types of mat canvas?
Lexjet Instant Dry Satin
LexJet Sunset Select Matte Canvas
LexJet Universal Photo Canvas Matte
Breathing Color heavily markets the fact that Lyve doesn't have OBAs. Does Lexjet canvas? Does it matter if the canvas is coated? Does that provide the same level of protection, if a gallery wrap is used with no glass, as the use of UV glass with paper prints?
Dan and anyone else --
Have you tried PremierArt Eco Print Shield? The on-line explanatory video for Eco Print Shield says that it must be applied three times if you roll it on. The video is also confusing. It says that the mat and satin contain "diffusing agents." But the video states that you don't need those agents for all three coats or the result is milky blacks. So it seems to be suggesting that the first two coats should be gloss, and the third application would be satin or mat if that is the final finish you want. But the dumb video doesn't say that explicitly, and the directions for spaying appear to suggest that you spray once using one finish. Can anyone confirm whether three coats are needed? For satin, do you apply three satin coats, or two gloss and a final satin?
How does Eco Print Shield compare to Glamour II? Especially for rolling. One coat or three? Ease of application, especially with rollers? Quality of the product? Appearance in the final print?
Dan and others, thanks for any responses.
I will address as much of this as I can.
I primarily use the Lexjet Sunset Select Matte. We also have some of the Instant Dry which has a satin finish.(semi gloss) ALL canvas need to be coated with something for moisture and uv protection. We use 2 products Glamor II and Clear Star Fine Art which is a solvent based finish we spray. The pluses for the Clearstar are almost an instant dry due to its solvent base. We have a spray booth so the solvents are a non issue at least for us. We really only use this in workshops for quicker turn times. The Glamor takes 4 to 8 hours to dry properly before you can stretch and we strretch the Clearstar coated media in less then an hour. The reason we do not use Clearstar on a regular basis is due to its cost. At $100.00 a gal for a laquer based product its just too expensive!
I am mixing the Glamor a little thicker these days and am only using 1 heavy rolled coat. Mixture 20% water 60% glamor II satin ant 20% Glamor II Matte.When we started we did 2 lighter coats but it just does not seem necessary. I do not spray the Glamor as I have Binks HVLP equipment in my spray booth for furniture and just do not want to contaminate the larger containers.
Back to the Lexjet Instant Dry for a minute. Lexjet promotes the Instant dry canvas with a coating that will absorb the ink in a special way and then not require a topcoat. Have found a few things out in our tests. First of all it is quite glossy. Our customers just do not seem to like glossy canvases. YOMV. When stretching this canvas with no coating we got substancial cracking on the backsides of the stretcher frames. So it does need coating like the rest of them. We did not do any flat Gatorboard mounts to date with this product. With no stretching it may be possible to get away with no coatings. Sorry I cannot answer the Eco Print Shield questions.
OBA's Now we are getting into an area I like to shy away from because its just not a big concern for me. Many folks have such strong feelings about OBA's and this whole archival thing. As my mother used to say pick your battles and this isn't one of them.
Read up what Henry Wilhelm has to say about all this. The canvas and inks we use have at least a 100 years of life,thats enough for me oba's or not.
I believe Breathing Color Lyve does not have oba's nor does the Lexjet Matte many others do.
Hope this helps.
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Read up what Wilheim has to say about all this. The canvas and inks we use have at least a 100 years of life,thats enough for me oba's or not.
I really wonder how many years of life one will get with a non UV coating like Glamor II?
Doyle
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I will address as much of this as I can.
I primarily use the Lexjet Sunset Select Matte. .
OBA's Now we are getting into an area I like to shy away from because its just not a big concern for me. Many folks have such strong feelings about OBA's and this whole archival thing. As my mother used to say pick your battles and this isn't one of them.
Read up what Wilheim has to say about all this. The canvas and inks we use have at least a 100 years of life,thats enough for me oba's or not.
Yes I believe Breathing Color Lyve does not have oba's most others do.
Hope this helps.
Dan,
Thanks very much for the very informative response. Now we know which Lexjet paper to try. Greatly appreciate your help.
One other question. It is possible to buy, or build, smaller spray booths that could fit in the corner of a utility room and then be vented to the outside. They are 4' x 7' x 2" and open in the front where you spray, with a fan in the back. But such booths are still open and not enclosed like spray rooms. Could that work for a water based coating like Glamour? While recognizing that it would not work for a solvent? (Among other issues, utility rooms by definition contain furnaces, hot water heaters and other sources of natural gas. So spaying a solvent could be deadly.) But again, would it work for a water-based product that I assume is not flammable? Or is that idea nuts, and it is easier to stick with rollers?
I agree with you about picking your battles! OBAs are a matter of nearly ideological conviction for some folks. I've used papers both with and without them; am not an expert or anyone who cares that much; and asked more as a matter of curiosity. Someone posted here that if you put a paper with OBAs behind UV glass, the OBAs can't do their job, since the UV glass blocks the very light that causes the OBAs to turn white! I've never tested that though. But it did strike me as a contradiction that UV glass is used to prevent fading, including by OBAs, and yet UV glass might prevent the OBAs from causing the paper to look white in the first place!
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Doyle,
Good question!
The clearstar has the uv inhibitor and the Glamor does not.
I believe Wilhelms quote was 100 years with no coatings.
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Ken, 1st off, welcome to LL forum... there are some amazing people on here that are willing to help out...
about the canvas question... I have tried Lexjet instant dry satin (thin and rough texture), breathing color lyve( my fav at the moment) , breathing color gloss (too glossy) and black diamond (cheap feeling) ... all sprayed with Glamour 2 gloss .. I love the glossy look to a canvas... plus the coating is real important when stretching and the Colors just come alive when you coat it with glamour 2 gloss... the blacks get blacker and the colors pops...
I love to try new canvas papers.. im on a mission to find the best... lyve is doing great right now... but CANSON not canon has
just started making Inkjet papers... they have been around for years, but now entering in the Inkjet Market... they have 3 canvas papers..
1 is a gloss canvas
1 artist canvas
1 matte canvas
the samples are really nice.. cant wait to run out of lyve so i can try these...
but really its a personal journey,, Ive seen some canvas papers that are horrible that people just LOVE... so really its a personal thing...
I have the wagner sprayer .. but it just didnt cut it for me... I went to home depot and got a HVLP gun and hooked it up to our compressor and put a air limiter on it so it only comes out at 35 psi..
and it is just been more consistant...
good luck!
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I am using a BF Injet Canvas for my clients these days. I have been getting it through http://www.sunrisempc.com/ (http://www.sunrisempc.com/) who are in your neck of the woods. The only downside to this product is I have clean the cloth dust out of the 9880 before printing on paper again. Reasonably priced and they provide iffy ICC profiles. I had to tune the ICC profile a bit to get the results my clients wanted. Hope that helps.
Mark -
Sunrisempc site... I can not find the BF canvas.
BF PC 12.2 UDH canvas... I had tried five other canvases. Eric at Booksmartstudio.com recommended the PC and MC BF canvases for high D-Max and color saturation. The test rolls had quite a bit of dust, as you had mentioned, but the full size rolls haven't had that problem.
Profiles... The BF site indicates they're working on providing profiles. I sent one email a week for four weeks to BF asking what they recommend as a substitute profile until they get theirs ready. I also asked if they had a preference for type of protective spray or other coating. They have never replied to any of the emails, even to acknowledge receiving them. I have seen posts by others on these forums who have quit using BF products because of their non-existent customer service.
Someone told me that BF makes the only product that Canson doesn't make for themselves, and that's the Canson canvas. I downloaded Canson's profile and tried it as-is. Turned out very much denser than displayed on my calibrated monitor. After some trial and error with ink density printer settings and adjusting gamma with an Exposure layer in Photoshop, I'm very happy with the results. As long as I don't need customer service, I'll continue using their canvas until something better, or equivalent, comes along. The Canson canvas is nice, but not quite up to the BF PC 12.2 UDH in my experience.
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Mark -
Sunrisempc site... I can not find the BF canvas.
BF PC 12.2 UDH canvas... I had tried five other canvases. Eric at Booksmartstudio.com recommended the PC and MC BF canvases for high D-Max and color saturation. The test rolls had quite a bit of dust, as you had mentioned, but the full size rolls haven't had that problem.
Profiles... The BF site indicates they're working on providing profiles. I sent one email a week for four weeks to BF asking what they recommend as a substitute profile until they get theirs ready. I also asked if they had a preference for type of protective spray or other coating. They have never replied to any of the emails, even to acknowledge receiving them. I have seen posts by others on these forums who have quit using BF products because of their non-existent customer service.
Someone told me that BF makes the only product that Canson doesn't make for themselves, and that's the Canson canvas. I downloaded Canson's profile and tried it as-is. Turned out very much denser than displayed on my calibrated monitor. After some trial and error with ink density printer settings and adjusting gamma with an Exposure layer in Photoshop, I'm very happy with the results. As long as I don't need customer service, I'll continue using their canvas until something better, or equivalent, comes along. The Canson canvas is nice, but not quite up to the BF PC 12.2 UDH in my experience.
Hi All,
A very timely topic.
As a background I'm printing with a Epson 9880 that I have had for about two years...with many thanks to this forum for help in selecting it and answering my questions while I was shopping for a printer. I'm printing mainly on canvas, repros of my paintings and other artist works.
I'm currently looking to switch to a new canvas. I have tried Epson, Hp Pro Matte, something called "Universal" canvas and have not been pleased with the results, mainly due "ink rub" and cracking while stretching. So far from what I have found online Breathing Colour seems to be on top. I have yet to test it but was looking to order today. I have read that in combo with Glamour II there is no cracking while stretching?
I have been using a Krylon Uv Clear coating to finish similar to what I would use on my original oils and acrylics...The look is terrific but it does not stand up to gallery wrap on my canvas stretching machine. (Build a homemade model if anyone is ever interested in doing so...bit of work but I can stretch a 12 x 16 canvas in under a minute, side staple or gallery wrap, and up to 36" wide).
Has anyone purchased directly from Amplis Foto? I found them online yesterday but thought they sounded like they would not sell direct to business but where a distributor.
I expect to be trying out some samples next week and will check back to see if there are any new updates...
Ken it sounds as though you are going through a similar search. Hope to hear how you progress.
best of luck,
Shawn
Whalen Fine Art & Framing
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Hi Shawn - I've been printing for decades and had never considered canvas. At the time that I got the 7900, an oil painter friend asked about canvas and that's when I started looking into it. The test subject I used was one of his paintings. His previous experience with inkjet (I mean "giclee") reproductions was not positive, primarily because his work demands highly saturated color and the highest D-Max possible.
Stretching... The BF PC is much thinner than the BF MC, and as someone who has spent almost half a century handling prints with white cotton gloves, I was stunned to see him yank on that canvas to pull it around the corners of the stretcher frame, and then he grabbed the canvas edge with that clamp/pliers gizmo and pulled the canvas like he was crowbarring nails out of a crate. I KNEW I'd hear a loud r-r-r-ip if not with this pull, then certainly with the next. Apparently my expression prompted him to say, "I like this canvas."
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Hi All,
A very timely topic.
As a background I'm printing with a Epson 9880 that I have had for about two years...with many thanks to this forum for help in selecting it and answering my questions while I was shopping for a printer. I'm printing mainly on canvas, repros of my paintings and other artist works.
I'm currently looking to switch to a new canvas. I have tried Epson, Hp Pro Matte, something called "Universal" canvas and have not been pleased with the results, mainly due "ink rub" and cracking while stretching. So far from what I have found online Breathing Colour seems to be on top. I have yet to test it but was looking to order today. I have read that in combo with Glamour II there is no cracking while stretching?
I have been using a Krylon Uv Clear coating to finish similar to what I would use on my original oils and acrylics...The look is terrific but it does not stand up to gallery wrap on my canvas stretching machine. (Build a homemade model if anyone is ever interested in doing so...bit of work but I can stretch a 12 x 16 canvas in under a minute, side staple or gallery wrap, and up to 36" wide).
Has anyone purchased directly from Amplis Foto? I found them online yesterday but thought they sounded like they would not sell direct to business but where a distributor.
I expect to be trying out some samples next week and will check back to see if there are any new updates...
Ken it sounds as though you are going through a similar search. Hope to hear how you progress.
best of luck,
Shawn
Whalen Fine Art & Framing
I am going through a similar search, but for various reasons.
Currently I use a matte canvas from Canon (not Canson). It is really a fabulous canvas, but does have some downside too. It is extremely bright white, and I love the texture. It is the closest inkjet canvas to artists canvas I have found. The only thing I dislike about the Canon canvas is that it is very, very stiff canvas. When I stretch it I have to soak it with water to get it to flex and become pliable. Then I am able to stretch it without cracking. If I don't soak it, the moment I wrap it around that first angle it'll crack like crazy.
I mentioned before about the cost of canvas here in Canada. What I'm searching for is something with some texture, nice and white, pliable and decent prices. I can't seem to find the complete package here.
I do plan on trying the Lyve canvas shortly (over $200 here with shipping for 24"). I contacted Fredrix for some samples but they have basically ignored me.
Like you, Shawn, I finish my canvas prints with a product from Krylon too. Leaves a nice satin finish that clients love. I'll also suggest that you try to wet the canvas before stretching to prevent the cracking, assuming you are using a water resistant canvas.
Let us know what samples you receive and how it works out. I'm interested in sharing our canvas experiences with each other since we're looking for the same thing.
I should also mention that I paint too and reproduce my work as well. Most on here are photographers I believe, so it's nice to see another fellow artist here.
Ken
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I am going through a similar search, but for various reasons.
Currently I use a matte canvas from Canon (not Canson). It is really a fabulous canvas, but does have some downside too. It is extremely bright white, and I love the texture. It is the closest inkjet canvas to artists canvas I have found. The only thing I dislike about the Canon canvas is that it is very, very stiff canvas. When I stretch it I have to soak it with water to get it to flex and become pliable. Then I am able to stretch it without cracking. If I don't soak it, the moment I wrap it around that first angle it'll crack like crazy.
I mentioned before about the cost of canvas here in Canada. What I'm searching for is something with some texture, nice and white, pliable and decent prices. I can't seem to find the complete package here.
I do plan on trying the Lyve canvas shortly (over $200 here with shipping for 24"). I contacted Fredrix for some samples but they have basically ignored me.
Like you, Shawn, I finish my canvas prints with a product from Krylon too. Leaves a nice satin finish that clients love. I'll also suggest that you try to wet the canvas before stretching to prevent the cracking, assuming you are using a water resistant canvas.
Let us know what samples you receive and how it works out. I'm interested in sharing our canvas experiences with each other since we're looking for the same thing.
I should also mention that I paint too and reproduce my work as well. Most on here are photographers I believe, so it's nice to see another fellow artist here.
Ken
Thanks Ken... I will do.
Just curious are you "Gallery Wrapping" your image, with rear stapling, or side stapling for framing? I have heard that the "cracking" is more related to the surface finish product than the ink or the substrate. Most of my problems show on the wrapped images. As I said earlier, I have built a canvas stretching machine that takes a lot of the effort out of this work but, whether with it or by hand the cracking appears, especially on darkly print areas.
I'm fortunate to have a full framing studio here as well so covering the areas during framing is not an issue but I have an order of 45-75 pieces to supply 16" x 24" and I really don't want this to be an issue with them. All are to be stretched and gallery wrapped. (This is also the reason for the stretching machine!)
This project is what has prompted my decision to try the Breathing Colour (yes I Canadianized that!) products.
I have sent off for info from Vistek, and from Amplis Foto but have not received as reply as of yet...its only been a day or so.
Although this forum has been of great help to me..it does seem that painting reproduction has its own problems as well. However, without these photographers guys here, I wouldn't have half the info I have now to create these Giclees (that's for the artist, painters), oops I mean injet prints. Thanks greatly photo guys..and girls!
I'll try to post my results in the next few days....most likely next week when I get some samples. Ken Babcock,(I believe there are two Kens on this thread?) feel free to google my website, (my new site should be up in a week or so but the old one still has contact info), and email me any questions you may have. I do have a circle of artists/painters, who are running through similar issues. Or post here to share with all.
All the best,
Shawn
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Shawn=
I'm interested in your DIY stretching machine. I didn't see anything about it on your website. Have any photos of it?
FWIW: I use BC Chromata White for art reproduction work and really like it. No cracking if I coat it with Glamour II first. Nice texture. I haven't seen much difference between the Chromata and the Lyve (for additional $), so I've stuck with the tried and true for me.
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Shawn - I gallery wrap and staple on the back, unless the client specifically requests something different.
I was thinking last night when I went to bed that I'll probably end up sticking with the Canon canvas and using my current methods to prevent cracking etc... I think I'll give the Chromata or Lyve a try just for the heck of it, but I believe I'll be paying roughly double what I pay now for essentially the same thing. If I don't see any added benefit from the Breathing Colour line I won't use it. Hard to justify price increases to Canadian customers who already pay more than those in the US.
My next search will be for new photo paper. I have a new client that shoots mainly weddings and sells a lot of prints. Again, the whole Canadian price thing is wreaking havoc.
Looking forward to your review of the Breathing Colour samples.
Ken
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I'm a real beginner, but I have made the experiment;
All coated with Glamour 2 mixed 1/2c gloss 2Tb matte 1/2c distilled water minimum 3 coats more is better for me, I like piling on the finish, I don't mind topgraphy
#1 Breathing Color Lyve
#2 Hahnemuhle Monet
#3 Hahnemuhle Daguerre
The Breathing Color Lyve has the nicest color to my eyes, really sharp and bright,
the others are fine and just beautiful,
but for the same money I'll be using Lyve,
I haven't tried any others though.
IDK but the texture of Lyve is pretty high,
and it doesn't fll up so you can't tell it's canvas when you coat it.
Just my observation between lyve, monet, and daguerre.
I had a roll of chromata white,
I like lyve better. Just brighter and what I think looks best.
thank you,
Rocco
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Shawn=
I'm interested in your DIY stretching machine. I didn't see anything about it on your website. Have any photos of it?
FWIW: I use BC Chromata White for art reproduction work and really like it. No cracking if I coat it with Glamour II first. Nice texture. I haven't seen much difference between the Chromata and the Lyve (for additional $), so I've stuck with the tried and true for me.
I do have some photos and instructions I sent to a friend of my who was considering building one...Mine is sort of a "prototype" build and uses manual toggle clamps to achieve the action. I'm working on a new improved version but must admit even my first go round worked well..once one gets used to it.
I'll add a page to my website either later today or on the weekend so you can have a look. It does take some mechanical skills to build and I would say engineering, but I'm more artist than engineer!
The only or main problem I have had is with the cracking described in previous posts...thanks for the info on the BC Canvas..it should solve the issue.
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Hi Ken;
You can reach the Customer Service Manager of Sunrisepc at 1-866-770-7721. I was able to get a icc profile from BF Inkjet in about 48 hours and a week later was able to spend a hour on the phone with one of their factory salesmen who supplied a lot of information and data. I also mentioned to him their poor customer service was a PITA. This canvas is still the most popular among my clients. Contact me if you want the email of the support of BF.
My understanding is that Amplis Foto is the distributor for Ilford now in Canada. I have not dealt with them yet but I still have a few rolls of Glaerie Gold in stock.
Now I have a question. I love d-max of the black and texture of the print on IGG paper but I also miss the touchable black you can generate with MK inks on matt paper. I am still a huge fan of Somerset Velvet so I am considering switching back to MK ink. I am considering finding an alternative to the IGG in the matt ink range. This leads to MK canvas. Is anyone printing with MK canvas and what are your experiences?
I can also attest to the framer observing my expression as he worked the print around the frame, my eyes got big to say the least.
Mark Prins
Inanda Images
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Shawn=
I'm interested in your DIY stretching machine. I didn't see anything about it on your website. Have any photos of it?
FWIW: I use BC Chromata White for art reproduction work and really like it. No cracking if I coat it with Glamour II first. Nice texture. I haven't seen much difference between the Chromata and the Lyve (for additional $), so I've stuck with the tried and true for me.
Just a quick update on the canvas stretching machine. I set up a quick demo page on my website.
Canvas Machine (http://www.whalenfineart.ca/Canvas_Stretching.html)
If the link doesn't work go to my site, Visit My Website (http://www.whalenfineart.ca) and on the intro page "mouseover" and click on the image of the great blue heron...the hidden hot link there should take you to the page. It is set up for members of this site but not part of the public viewing pages on my site.
Comments are welcome, but please be polite about my engineering, or lack thereof.
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Hi Ken;
You can reach the Customer Service Manager of Sunrisepc at 1-866-770-7721. I was able to get a icc profile from BF Inkjet in about 48 hours and a week later was able to spend a hour on the phone with one of their factory salesmen who supplied a lot of information and data. I also mentioned to him their poor customer service was a PITA. This canvas is still the most popular among my clients. Contact me if you want the email of the support of BF.
My understanding is that Amplis Foto is the distributor for Ilford now in Canada. I have not dealt with them yet but I still have a few rolls of Glaerie Gold in stock.
Now I have a question. I love d-max of the black and texture of the print on IGG paper but I also miss the touchable black you can generate with MK inks on matt paper. I am still a huge fan of Somerset Velvet so I am considering switching back to MK ink. I am considering finding an alternative to the IGG in the matt ink range. This leads to MK canvas. Is anyone printing with MK canvas and what are your experiences?
I can also attest to the framer observing my expression as he worked the print around the frame, my eyes got big to say the least.
Mark Prins
Inanda Images
Thanks, Mark.
Yes, if you wouldn't mind could you provide me with the e-mail for the BF support? It would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ken
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Shawn - I gallery wrap and staple on the back, unless the client specifically requests something different.
I was thinking last night when I went to bed that I'll probably end up sticking with the Canon canvas and using my current methods to prevent cracking etc... I think I'll give the Chromata or Lyve a try just for the heck of it, but I believe I'll be paying roughly double what I pay now for essentially the same thing. If I don't see any added benefit from the Breathing Colour line I won't use it. Hard to justify price increases to Canadian customers who already pay more than those in the US.
My next search will be for new photo paper. I have a new client that shoots mainly weddings and sells a lot of prints. Again, the whole Canadian price thing is wreaking havoc.
Looking forward to your review of the Breathing Colour samples.
Ken
Been a while but I have had time to try out my new canvases..Here are my results to date.
I received no reply from Vistek but did have a prompt reply from Amplis Photo in regards to the Breathing Color products. I have completed 25 16" x 24" canvas prints with the new materials and am very impressed with both the BC Canvas, Chromata White, and the Glamour II product.
The ICC profiles used seem much better for colour accuracy and better blacks then the ones I was using for the Epson canvas. I rolled the Glamour coating as directed and although it does take some getting use to it proved very efficient. I did, however, dilute the product at a higher ratio then suggested on the Breathing Color site.
The most impressive part came when I commenced with the stretching...no scuffs or cracking at all! I folded and heavily creased the canvas for alignment on the stretcher bars, and once placed in the canvas stretching machine, a tight stretch was achieved with ease.
I have no doubt to date the combination of the BC canvas, and veneer product to be the best I have found. The service and shipping, from Amplis, were prompt and very courteous. Nice to have a great local Canadian source, for the BC products. (I'm located just northeast of Toronto)
I'm on my third roll of canvas now and am going to place another order to try the BC Lyve canvas next.
It is great to be able to comfortably handle, fold, crease, the canvas without any fear of print damage.
Hope this info in of use to others on the site...I spent many hours researching this forum and others on this topic and can now confirm what many have said.
Back to printing now....