Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Landscape Photography Locations => Topic started by: bellimages on December 15, 2009, 05:05:34 pm

Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: bellimages on December 15, 2009, 05:05:34 pm
I'm planning a month-long solo trek through the west (Death Valley, Alabama Hills, Big Sur, areas north of San Francisco). While in the parks, I can sleep in my SUV in their campgrounds. And I have parked on the dirt roads of the Alabama Hills (near Lone Pine, CA). I see that people pull off Highway 1, near Big Sur and sleep. But I've always wondered whether it's safe. Anyone could park a mile down the road, walk to my vehicle, and break a window. Any thoughts on all this? MOTELS GET VERY EXPENSIVE.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Paul Sumi on December 15, 2009, 05:24:22 pm
I have "slept rough" in my car some places in the eastern Sierra off of 395 on a side road without incident.  But it's not a thing of which I have made a habit.  Have never tried this in Big Sur area.  I generally either camp in established sites or stay in motel lodging.

If too much motel and hotel lodging busts your budget, and it does sound like you will have camping gear, Google is your friend:

http://www.californiacampgrounds.org/ (http://www.californiacampgrounds.org/)

http://www.camp-california.com/ (http://www.camp-california.com/)

http://www.reserveamerica.com/campgroundDi...contractCode=ca (http://www.reserveamerica.com/campgroundDirectoryList.do?contractCode=ca)

http://www.koa.com/where/ca/ (http://www.koa.com/where/ca/)

http://camping.about.com/cs/campgrounds/a/california.htm (http://camping.about.com/cs/campgrounds/a/california.htm)
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: bellimages on December 15, 2009, 07:25:49 pm
I'm flying out .... so I will not have camping gear. I will ship ahead a Thermarest pad, sleep bag, etc., along with a lot of other stuff. I know that I can stay in campground .... just wondered if anyone has heard of photographers being robbed, or worse yet, beaten
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Paul Sumi on December 15, 2009, 08:22:33 pm
Quote from: bellimages
just wondered if anyone has heard of photographers being robbed, or worse yet, beaten

I haven't, which doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  Crime is unfortunately increasing in the NPs and other wilderness areas.  You might also post this question on Fred Miranda's landscape photography forum, which is very active.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Ray on December 15, 2009, 08:42:39 pm
Quote from: bellimages
I'm planning a month-long solo trek through the west (Death Valley, Alabama Hills, Big Sur, areas north of San Francisco). While in the parks, I can sleep in my SUV in their campgrounds. And I have parked on the dirt roads of the Alabama Hills (near Lone Pine, CA). I see that people pull off Highway 1, near Big Sur and sleep. But I've always wondered whether it's safe. Anyone could park a mile down the road, walk to my vehicle, and break a window. Any thoughts on all this? MOTELS GET VERY EXPENSIVE.

Doesn't this at least partly depend upon whether or not you are a busty, sexy lady or an ugly, bearded man?

I've occasionally slept in my Daewoo wagon whilst travelling in Australia, just pulling into a layby for truck drivers, and sometimes just by the side of the road, miles from anywhere. I never felt nervous.

However, judging by the American movies we see over here, America seems to be a more violent place than Australia. We very rarely get tourists being murdered or eaten by crocodiles, but it does happen of course.

There's a great sense of freedom in just stopping by the roadside when you feel tired and waking up at dawn to the sound of chirping birds. My driver's seat reclines right back, almost horizontally, and is far more comfortable that a hard floor in a tent.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Peter McLennan on December 15, 2009, 11:11:41 pm
I have spent literally hundreds of nights "boondocking" in various vans all over North America.  If you're sensible about where you choose to "camp", you'll be fine.  In fact, you'll frequently be astounded by the beauty and solitude of your bedroom.  You don't get that in a motel.  The benefits of "being there" when the dawn is breaking are not to be underestimated.  I'll never own a car for this very reason.

Recently, sleeping at a campground called "Dry Cleaners", somewhere in PA, I had my first-ever nighttime encounter with the police.  Once they established who I was and what I was doing, they left. They said "Be gone by sunrise".   And I was.




(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3443/3753020022_52ba6a9162_o.jpg)
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Ray on December 16, 2009, 12:25:39 am
Quote from: Peter McLennan
In fact, you'll frequently be astounded by the beauty and solitude of your bedroom.  You don't get that in a motel.  The benefits of "being there" when the dawn is breaking are not to be underestimated.  I'll never own a car for this very reason.

Absolutely! I'll never forget the occasion when I pulled up by the roadside about 1am (or maybe 2am) because I was getting dangerously drowsy.

Woke up at dawn and was greeted by the following scene across the road. A great start to the day! However, I was driving a car. Had a great sleep, and took a shower at the next petrol station I came across.

[attachment=18695:1243.jpg]
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: chrisn on December 16, 2009, 02:50:15 am
There's always the middle ground -- sleeping in the car in a campground. If you're paying for a site, they really don't care whether you pitch a tent or sleep in the back seat. Some might consider it a waste of cash, but you're paying for a measure of safety, plus sometimes the use of actual plumbing and a warm shower. That's how I spent most of my nights in two months crossing Australia.

Either way, sounds like a great trip you're planning. Have fun.

Chris
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Ken Bennett on December 16, 2009, 07:25:16 am
You can also try parking in a Wal-Mart parking lot. They are patrolled and considered somewhat safer than rest areas and the side of the road. (Not that it's as pretty as the locations mentioned above.)

Wal-Marts usually allow a small number of RVs to park overnight, the idea being that the owners will spend a few bucks resupplying inside.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Peter McLennan on December 16, 2009, 11:08:46 am
I will, with some guilt, admit to availing myself of Walmart's hospitality on occasion.   They tend to be noisy and very brightly lit.  Hence, they violate two of my three requirements for a good boondocking spot.  Namely: "Quiet, Dark and Level"
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: bellimages on December 16, 2009, 11:28:20 am
Quote from: Peter McLennan
I will, with some guilt, admit to availing myself of Walmart's hospitality on occasion.   They tend to be noisy and very brightly lit.  Hence, they violate two of my three requirements for a good boondocking spot.  Namely: "Quiet, Dark and Level"

Interesting commentary. And I guess that I realize that no one can predict what "might" or "might not" happen. Campgrounds are the cheapest solution ... pull in, sleep, and take off. Motels are a huge downer, after being outside photographing all day. As a couple of you said, it's exhilarating to wake up in the outback.

Sorry, NO Walmart for me. I wouldn't step foot on their properties!!  LOL
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: DarkPenguin on December 16, 2009, 12:20:33 pm
Quote from: Peter McLennan
I will, with some guilt, admit to availing myself of Walmart's hospitality on occasion.   They tend to be noisy and very brightly lit.  Hence, they violate two of my three requirements for a good boondocking spot.  Namely: "Quiet, Dark and Level"

A guy (sad that I can't remember his name.  he gave one of the few decent presentations at the crap photo club I used to be part of.) who does a lot of Northern MN photography noted that he likes to use church parking lots as camp sites.  In his case I believe he would sleep in the back of an open pickup truck.  (Could be wrong about that.  That might have been someone else.)
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Jonathan Wienke on December 16, 2009, 12:26:46 pm
Quote from: bellimages
I'm planning a month-long solo trek through the west (Death Valley, Alabama Hills, Big Sur, areas north of San Francisco). While in the parks, I can sleep in my SUV in their campgrounds. And I have parked on the dirt roads of the Alabama Hills (near Lone Pine, CA). I see that people pull off Highway 1, near Big Sur and sleep. But I've always wondered whether it's safe. Anyone could park a mile down the road, walk to my vehicle, and break a window. Any thoughts on all this? MOTELS GET VERY EXPENSIVE.

My experience with parking by the side of a road is that you're far more likely to have the police knocking on your window to see if you're OK than have a random miscreant with a tire iron attempt to do you harm. I've never been attacked, but I have police officers inquire to my well-being on several occasions. I generally tell them that I was getting sleepy while driving and pulled over to take a nap so I could continue to drive safely. Most cops would much rather you pull over (out of traffic of course) and take a nap for a while than continue driving, fall asleep, and wrap yourself around a bridge abutment.

If you're concerned about safety, make a plan to deal with a mugging attempt. Have some means of protecting yourself near at hand if it should be necessary. A gun is the most effective, but can cause you legal problems if you get caught with it in the wrong jurisdiction. However, there are may other things that can make effective weapons: Mag-Lite flashlights, tire irons, baseball bats, and of course a Ka-Bar. When you park, readjust your mirrors so that you can see the most likely avenues of approach from behind the vehicle. If you are in the vehicle, keep the key in the ignition, and whenever possible park so that you can leave the area without having to back up. Even if you are approached by a thug with a gun, your chances of surviving unharmed are pretty good if you can simply turn the key, put the vehicle in gear, and floor the accelerator to leave the area.

And don't overlook the use of your vehicle as a weapon. If the situation is such that using deadly force is justifiable (such as someone shooting at you with a gun), if you run over the miscreant you're no more likely to get in legal trouble than if you used a knife or gun to defend yourself--as long as you refrain from running him over repeatedly. This is especially true if the miscreant is blocking your exit path. The other practical consideration is that if you make it clear you intend to run them over, they are going to move to get out of your way, and shooting with any accuracy while running, especially under the added stress of "OMG he's going to RUN ME OVER!", is near-impossible.

I've done it and not had problems, but I generally either park along a road where anyone wanting to attack me is going to run a significant risk of being seen by passing drivers, or in isolated locations off-road where the chance of anyone noticing me (whether they have ill intent or not) before I leave is very slim. I wouldn't recommend trying it in South Central LA, or any other urban area where gunfire after dark is the rule rather than the exception.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Geoff Wittig on December 16, 2009, 01:03:55 pm
Quote from: Jonathan Wienke
If you're concerned about safety, make a plan to deal with a mugging attempt. Have some means of protecting yourself near at hand if it should be necessary.

 The other practical consideration is that if you make it clear you intend to run them over, they are going to move to get out of your way, and shooting with any accuracy while running, especially under the added stress of "OMG he's going to RUN ME OVER!", is near-impossible.

Umm, yeah. About that. Maybe not so much.
Jonathan appears to be an active duty Army officer, so this might color his perception here a little, what with combat training and familiarity with weapons and all that. But dealing with armed intruders by trying to run them over? In our area a very nice suburban fellow tried that with his wife and kids in the car a few years ago, and was killed by a bullet to the head.

I'm all for not putting oneself in danger unncecessarily in the first place, and avoiding confrontation involving lethal weapons as much as possible. There's little to gain beyond bragging after about the 8th beer when you're older and wiser. Presuming you haven't been incarcerated for running down someone with your car before realizing it was just a Jehova's Witness trying to force the Watchtower through your window while you slept.

Just sayin.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 16, 2009, 01:37:27 pm
Years ago, while traveling through Europe as a student, I used to sleep in the car at rest stops (simple ones, just parking, restrooms and running water) along major highways in Germany, Austria and Italy. Nothing eventful ever happened. However, upon returning home, I read about someone got mugged and killed in one of those very same rest stops I used (in Italy, I believe). Go figure.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: lightstand on December 16, 2009, 03:23:11 pm
First to go off topic: Say what you want about Walmart but THEY not the government have done more to bring drug companies back to reality. Especially when you see how much money drug companies lobby at Congress to prevent Canadian sales or any type of price oversight and of course Congress happily drinks that expensive wine.

To the OP: Curtains, Curtains, Curtains, Curtains!!!  Once I rigged up curtains I could drive into a nice neighborhood at nighttime park along a quiet safe street, go to sleep without the self consciousness that some suburbanite might make judgement upon me for sleeping in a car during my travels.  If it's a rental car maybe test out some of those suction cups used to hold up 'baby on board' signs with nylon string and some sheets. But one thing for sure have Curtains

jeff
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 16, 2009, 07:17:11 pm
Quote from: bellimages
I'm planning a month-long solo trek through the west (Death Valley, Alabama Hills, Big Sur, areas north of San Francisco). While in the parks, I can sleep in my SUV in their campgrounds. And I have parked on the dirt roads of the Alabama Hills (near Lone Pine, CA). I see that people pull off Highway 1, near Big Sur and sleep. But I've always wondered whether it's safe. Anyone could park a mile down the road, walk to my vehicle, and break a window. Any thoughts on all this? MOTELS GET VERY EXPENSIVE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: bradleygibson on December 16, 2009, 07:52:27 pm
My wife and I do this extensively as we travel and shoot.  While sleeping on the roadside or other places close to where we wanted to be at dawn, we've only ever had issues with the police (2x).  Others we have met have been helpful & pleasure to have met.

Wal-mart parking lots are indeed too bright!
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Jonathan Wienke on December 17, 2009, 01:35:42 pm
Quote from: Geoff Wittig
Umm, yeah. About that. Maybe not so much.
Jonathan appears to be an active duty Army officer, so this might color his perception here a little, what with combat training and familiarity with weapons and all that. But dealing with armed intruders by trying to run them over? In our area a very nice suburban fellow tried that with his wife and kids in the car a few years ago, and was killed by a bullet to the head.

Try shooting a moving target with a pistol--it's very difficult. Scoring a headshot past 15 meters when the target isn't moving is challenging for me, and I consistently qualify Expert. Doing so on a moving target is much harder, and adding in the stress of having a vehicle about to run your ass over puts that firmly in the "dumb luck" category for the shooter.
Quote
I'm all for not putting oneself in danger unncecessarily in the first place, and avoiding confrontation involving lethal weapons as much as possible. There's little to gain beyond bragging after about the 8th beer when you're older and wiser. Presuming you haven't been incarcerated for running down someone with your car before realizing it was just a Jehova's Witness trying to force the Watchtower through your window while you slept.

I'm not suggesting that you should dally in the area if you're in a vehicle and someone is shooting at you so you can try to run the shooter over. Being elsewhere quickly should be your top priority. But if the shooter is between you and getting the hell out of dodge, trying to avoid hitting him will increase your chance of being injured, for two reasons.

First of all, maneuvering to avoid hitting the shooter is going to slow you down, meaning you're spending additional time in the danger zone. This is always a bad idea. Second, swerving to avoid the shooter increases the odds you're going to lose control of the vehicle and either roll it over, crash into a tree or other obstacle, get stuck in a ditch, drive over an embankment, or something else along those lines. This poses a high risk of injury from the vehicle crash, with the prospect of either being trapped in the vehicle or having to escape from the vehicle and then deal with the shooter while injured as the rotten cherry on the excrement sundae.

The same logic applies here as when unexpectedly encountering a deer in the middle of the road--it's far better to hit the deer then to swerve to avoid the deer. If you hit the deer, your vehicle will be damaged, but the odds of you being injured in the incident are very small. But if you try to swerve or brake radically to avoid the collision, the odds of hitting something more substantial than the deer or rolling the vehicle go way up, and the odds you will be injured go way up as well. Replace "deer" with "armed criminal" and the argument for not avoiding the collision becomes even more compelling--if you hit the criminal, the odds of him shooting you or engaging in any further hostile action toward you drop to near zero. But if you swerve to avoid the collision and lose control of the vehicle and crash, now you're probably trapped in a disabled vehicle on top of being injured, and the criminal can pretty much do whatever he likes to you.

And if you're too stupid to tell the difference between a JW offering you a Watchtower magazine and an armed assailant shooting at you with a firearm, you shouldn't be wasting oxygen, let alone driving.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 17, 2009, 03:34:05 pm
Quote from: Jonathan Wienke
Try shooting a moving target with a pistol--it's very difficult....
Jonathan, I tend to agree with most of your logic in this post, but one thing bothers me: yes, shooting a moving target is difficult when the movement is perpendicular or angled to your line of sight, but when the target is moving straight toward you, isn't it actually easier to hit it, given that it is only getting bigger and bigger as it gets closer to you? Stress aside, of course.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Shirley Bracken on December 17, 2009, 04:05:27 pm
My 83 year old MIL drives across the country, by herself... she carries a gun... a big one!  I usually carry one too.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Geoff Wittig on December 17, 2009, 04:23:05 pm
Quote from: Jonathan Wienke
And if you're too stupid to tell the difference between a JW offering you a Watchtower magazine and an armed assailant shooting at you with a firearm, you shouldn't be wasting oxygen, let alone driving.

Very nice.

This is a line of reasoning I hear all the time from gun enthusiasts. You're just an idiot if you lack the skill. All that's needed is weapons training.

But the real world (especially the civilian world) just isn't like that. A large majority of individuals will never be able to competently and safely handle lethal weapons under the insanely stressful circumstances of a life and death encounter. Trained policemen inadvertently wound and kill innocent bystanders and fellow officers at appalling rates, in large part because of the mind-blowing adrenalin and anxiety levels involved—and these are people with training! Dumb this down to the 'average citizen' level and the outcomes get even worse.

Yes, I know, you're highly trained, you'd never do something that stupid, anyone can learn to shoot, etc. etc. etc.... but in the real world, when guns are drawn and bullets start flying, all bets are off. The intense emotional stress guarantees "sub-optimal outcomes".
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: vandevanterSH on December 17, 2009, 06:05:37 pm
Quote from: Geoff Wittig
Very nice.

This is a line of reasoning I hear all the time from gun enthusiasts. You're just an idiot if you lack the skill. All that's needed is weapons training.

But the real world (especially the civilian world) just isn't like that. A large majority of individuals will never be able to competently and safely handle lethal weapons under the insanely stressful circumstances of a life and death encounter. Trained policemen inadvertently wound and kill innocent bystanders and fellow officers at appalling rates, in large part because of the mind-blowing adrenalin and anxiety levels involved—and these are people with training! Dumb this down to the 'average citizen' level and the outcomes get even worse.

Yes, I know, you're highly trained, you'd never do something that stupid, anyone can learn to shoot, etc. etc. etc.... but in the real world, when guns are drawn and bullets start flying, all bets are off. The intense emotional stress guarantees "sub-optimal outcomes".

In reading these types of discussions with advice of "running people over" or shooting them; it's rare for the people giving such advice to speak from experience.  Last year, a nurse that I worked with was on his way to visit his sick mother,  early in the AM.  At a stop sign, three men walked in front of his car and a fourth tried to open the passenger door.  His thoughts were "If I run over them, it's my word against there's, leaving the scene, law suits, etc."  His response was to get out of the car with his son's baseball bat, walk up to the largest man and hit him in the mouth with the bat...they all ran.  He was psychologically prepared to use extreme violence;  most people aren't.

Steve
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Jay Kaplan on December 17, 2009, 10:46:31 pm
There is another alternative to a gun - BassPro Shops and other stores that cater to people who hunt and fish offer a product that is much like pepper spray but targted against bears. A little "Spray of Nate'" for those who are old enough to remember that Ad should do the trick when someone raps on your window and asks you to lower your window.  As I understand it, the product has quite a range since you obviously don't want the bear close enough to take a bite out of your hide.    A little practice and the element of suprise should solve the problem for those who do not like to carry guns in their vehicles.  
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Greg Campbell on December 19, 2009, 12:56:13 am
First off, I honestly think you'll be perfectly safe.  Few thugs are going to drive 100 miles out into the boonies to mug someone.  Most people you encounter will be fellow travelers - give them a chat!

Quote from: Jake21209
There is another alternative to a gun - BassPro Shops and other stores that cater to people who hunt and fish offer a product that is much like pepper spray but targted against bears. A little "Spray of Nate'" for those who are old enough to remember that Ad should do the trick when someone raps on your window and asks you to lower your window.  As I understand it, the product has quite a range since you obviously don't want the bear close enough to take a bite out of your hide.    A little practice and the element of suprise should solve the problem for those who do not like to carry guns in their vehicles.  

Good idea.  Buy a fair sized can, one that looks like a small fire extinguisher - the bigger they are, the greater discharge volume and range they have.  They cost all of $20+ or so, and a direct hit will stop any creature on four legs, much less a puny human.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Shirley Bracken on December 19, 2009, 06:32:01 am
Most crimes like that are crimes of opportunity.  No they don't drive out 100 miles looking for the possibility.  They might just take the opportunity if they happen to see you.  The spray is a great idea too.  I just prefer to take a big man with me!    

I've spent a LOT of money at the Bass Pro shop!
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Wally on December 22, 2009, 04:17:28 pm
Quote from: Jake21209
There is another alternative to a gun - BassPro Shops and other stores that cater to people who hunt and fish offer a product that is much like pepper spray but targted against bears. A little "Spray of Nate'" for those who are old enough to remember that Ad should do the trick when someone raps on your window and asks you to lower your window.  As I understand it, the product has quite a range since you obviously don't want the bear close enough to take a bite out of your hide.    A little practice and the element of suprise should solve the problem for those who do not like to carry guns in their vehicles.  

the problem with that is trying to spary someone outside of your car when you are in your car. You could very easily just fill your car up with bear spray and that would be a very bad thing or hit the window and have it spray right back at you.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Peter McLennan on December 22, 2009, 08:25:43 pm
That's very similar to the situation where you draw your gun to dissuade an assailant and they capture the gun from you.  Now what?

Anyway, this is getting off track.  In literally hundreds of "camping" sites across the continent, only once have I felt threatened.  Slow-moving tires on nearby gravel at 03:00 is a not a good thing to hear.

I left.

The real point is: there's absolutely no substitute for being on location at the break of day.  Or the end of it, for that matter.  Camping at a good photolocation is rewarding in many ways beside the great pictures that usually result.

Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: BernardLanguillier on December 22, 2009, 09:21:27 pm
Quote from: Jake21209
There is another alternative to a gun - BassPro Shops and other stores that cater to people who hunt and fish offer a product that is much like pepper spray but targted against bears.

Having myself accidently once sort of sprayed bear spay in the face of a friend, I would urge uttmost care if you decide to carry some. Total blindness can last 30 mins or more and is extremely painful.

Like all weapons, the chances of hurting yourself or somebody by mistake far outnumber the actual self-protection value.

Paranoia is a lot more dangerous than crime.

Regards,
Bernard
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Jonathan Wienke on December 23, 2009, 09:52:04 pm
Quote from: slobodan56
Jonathan, I tend to agree with most of your logic in this post, but one thing bothers me: yes, shooting a moving target is difficult when the movement is perpendicular or angled to your line of sight, but when the target is moving straight toward you, isn't it actually easier to hit it, given that it is only getting bigger and bigger as it gets closer to you? Stress aside, of course.

A target moving directly toward you is the easiest moving target to hit, yes. Theoretically. But when the target is in a vehicle that has the capability of squashing you like a bug or tossing you through the air like a toy when it hits you, and the driver has made it clear that something along those lines is exactly what he intends, stress is not aside, it's grabbing you by the balls, squeezing them with an iron fist, and giving them a vigorous yank for good measure.

Another thing to consider is that not all roads/trails are smooth; the approaching vehicle (and anyone inside) may very well be bouncing up and down and/or jostling from side to side from bumps or potholes enough to make a very challenging target. And if I was driving the vehicle, I'd be ducking down as much as I could and still be able to see to steer, to give the assailant the smallest possible exposed target.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Jonathan Wienke on December 24, 2009, 08:32:22 am
Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Like all weapons, the chances of hurting yourself or somebody by mistake far outnumber the actual self-protection value.

That statement is not true; if it was, nobody would make weapons. Having a weapon does pose a non-zero risk that it may be used to harm you, but intelligently managed, that risk is much smaller than the benefit of the protection it can provide. It is common to see such statements used to discourage gun ownership, but when you look at the statistics on which they are based, you find some major flaws in how the statistics are presented. There are two common errors that promote this fallacy:

When you take an unbiased look at the statistics, owning a gun is between 3 and 10 times more likely to be beneficial than harmful, depending on whether you assume all incidents of defensive non-use (victim displaying gun to attacker, but not actually firing it) are reported or what percentage you estimate are not reported.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: JRKO on December 24, 2009, 12:01:46 pm
Quote from: Jonathan Wienke
owning a gun is between 3 and 10 times more likely to....
...result in someone getting shot.  

And that is gonna ruin your photo trip

Pick your stop off places carefully - Drive round the area and know the road layout - Plan an exit route - If you don't feel comfortable than cough up for a motel

You can scale the gun argument all the way up to WMD and MAD.  Someone is going to get hurt.  So just don't put yourself in harms way

If paying for a motel is going to ruin the trip because of funding, imaging how shooting someone will wipe out your photographic joy.  I'll say it again....

Just don't put yourself in harms way, be sensible, careful & aware  

Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Jonathan Wienke on December 24, 2009, 12:24:58 pm
Quote from: JRKO
Just don't put yourself in harms way, be sensible, careful & aware

Owning a gun or any other type of weapon should never be viewed as an excuse for not doing such due diligence.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: JDHunt on December 24, 2009, 05:06:45 pm
Please don't ever get caught with a loaded gun in a vehicle in Cailifornia.   It is a felony!
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Dale Allyn on December 27, 2009, 07:15:20 pm
Lots of firearms talk here, and I hope that doesn't scare the OP by instilling more fear. (I'm a gun owner, advanced marksman, and licensed to carry concealed, but hate to see someone's concerns get frothed up too much.) I've stayed in my vehicle, on the ground beside it, in campgrounds, at the end of dirt roads, etc. Common sense and an awareness of one's surroundings is useful whether in the city, on the road, or in the woods.   One is more likely to encounter problems with their unattended vehicle, than while in the vehicle. Don't leave gear in the vehicle, even if out of sight. Rental vehicles and those with stuff that look "touristy" are prime targets. Out of state license plates are also targeted. My daughter just lost three cameras, an iPod and a new Mac laptop, etc. from her vehicle while simply walking her dog for a few minutes at beach access area. Everything was out of sight, under the seat, but she had the newest car (of five in the parking area) and out of state plates. This was on the Oregon coast and they've had a rash of these break-ins.

If one would like to add some camping nights, but doesn't want to fly with gear, you might consider renting from REI when you arrive to the area. Lots of locations available.

http://www.rei.com/stores/rentals.html (http://www.rei.com/stores/rentals.html)

Have fun!!
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: DanielStone on December 27, 2009, 08:43:32 pm
stop at rest points where there are others stopped. period. parking alone is never a good idea, unless you're out IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE, and the road you came in on doesn't lead to some weirdo cannabilistic cultist encampment 2mi down from where you are. those places probably DO exist...

so.... put the "crazy trucker following me for hundreds of miles just to assault me" attitude away, and use the brain God gave you. Even though I'm a 6'4" 300lb guy(ya I know I'm fat), I still don't park anywhere that there isn't a light shining on the car. I'm not scared, but just prefer to play it smart when I travel. Besides, if you get yourself a pair of those eye covers that you get on planes, it blocks the light out. Rest stops right along side the road are a great place to stay, generally free, and since you're a woman, generally have a toilet to use, so no hiding behind the bushes when nature calls .

just be smart, and think twice about where you decide to stay. and don't let fear grip your life. enjoy your trip!

-Dan

<EDIT> and if you're in California,   DO NOT CARRY A LOADED FIREARM!!!!!!!!! it is a felony, and CHP doesn't like to find a .380 under the seat, no matter how "pretty and alone" you are. my uncle was CHP for 24 years, and he has some stories to tell, believe me. you don't want to have that ruin your trip. pepper spray works well, the bear kind is best, but can be a bit unwieldly. a big heavy baseball bat would be best. HICKORY is still king for personal defense IMO. and ALWAYS have your cellphone on. ALWAYS....

-Dan
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Peter McLennan on December 28, 2009, 12:36:30 pm
"rest stops along the highway", especially Interstate highways in the USA, are among the worst places to stay overnight.  They are infested with those who would do you or your possessions wrong.

They are also invariably noisy.

If you must overnight in urban areas, church parking lots are excellent, except on Saturday night.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: bellimages on December 29, 2009, 11:03:58 am
Quote from: JDHunt
Please don't ever get caught with a loaded gun in a vehicle in Cailifornia.   It is a felony!
I DID NOT know this. Thank you for this information.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: bellimages on December 29, 2009, 11:14:03 am
Quote from: DFAllyn
Lots of firearms talk here, and I hope that doesn't scare the OP by instilling more fear. (I'm a gun owner, advanced marksman, and licensed to carry concealed, but hate to see someone's concerns get frothed up too much.) I've stayed in my vehicle, on the ground beside it, in campgrounds, at the end of dirt roads, etc. Common sense and an awareness of one's surroundings is useful whether in the city, on the road, or in the woods.   One is more likely to encounter problems with their unattended vehicle, than while in the vehicle. Don't leave gear in the vehicle, even if out of sight. Rental vehicles and those with stuff that look "touristy" are prime targets. Out of state license plates are also targeted. My daughter just lost three cameras, an iPod and a new Mac laptop, etc. from her vehicle while simply walking her dog for a few minutes at beach access area. Everything was out of sight, under the seat, but she had the newest car (of five in the parking area) and out of state plates. This was on the Oregon coast and they've had a rash of these break-ins.

If one would like to add some camping nights, but doesn't want to fly with gear, you might consider renting from REI when you arrive to the area. Lots of locations available.

http://www.rei.com/stores/rentals.html (http://www.rei.com/stores/rentals.html)

Have fun!!
THANKS .... I just emailed REI .... wanting to know if I can rent in one location and return in another. I'd think that they would be fine with that.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: bellimages on December 30, 2009, 10:09:17 am
Quote from: bellimages
THANKS .... I just emailed REI .... wanting to know if I can rent in one location and return in another. I'd think that they would be fine with that.

I talked with REI ..... no dice. They won't rent gear in one location, and allow me to return it to a store in a different city/state.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: Dale Allyn on December 30, 2009, 01:16:03 pm
Jan, in a pinch, perhaps you could rent in one location and UPS the items back to the REI store. Would they accept that? REI tends to be pretty easy to work with, but I can understand the difficulty of maintaining rental inventory levels at each store based on local needs, as well as concerns about the condition of returned gear, etc.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: gdanmitchell on January 07, 2010, 07:33:11 pm
Quote from: bellimages
I'm planning a month-long solo trek through the west (Death Valley, Alabama Hills, Big Sur, areas north of San Francisco). While in the parks, I can sleep in my SUV in their campgrounds. And I have parked on the dirt roads of the Alabama Hills (near Lone Pine, CA). I see that people pull off Highway 1, near Big Sur and sleep. But I've always wondered whether it's safe. Anyone could park a mile down the road, walk to my vehicle, and break a window. Any thoughts on all this? MOTELS GET VERY EXPENSIVE.

I do this (and sleep in a tent) all the time in the eastern Sierra and Death Valley and elsewhere in and around the Sierra. I don't advertise the fact that I'm a photographer while I'm in campgrounds, and I keep a close eye on my equipment.

I would most certainly NOT "camp in my car in San Francisco itself, if you were thinking of that. I do see people pull off the highway along parts of the coast highway, but there I'd be more comfortable in a regular campground I think.

Dan
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: bretedge on January 11, 2010, 09:45:10 am
I've slept in my car on various outings for well over 10 years and never had a problem.  Having said that, what you consider "safe" might be different from what I consider "safe".  Lock your doors, be aware of your surroundings, have an escape plan and make sure someone you trust (family, friend) knows where you are and where you will be sleeping.  If you park somewhere and you get the heeby jeebies - move.  Your gut feelings are generally fairly accurate and I'd rather find someplace to park where I can sleep more comfortably even if it means going to bed later in the night.
Title: Is sleeping in car safe ... when on an extended photo trek??
Post by: richard laughlin on January 11, 2010, 08:03:26 pm
(Death Valley, Alabama Hills, Big Sur, areas north of San Francisco)..
I have car camped in DV, AH and the Big Sur coast. I would NOT trust the north coast above SF, even though the areas are populated by the kind and considerate, they are also traveled by those who take easy advantage of those same easy going people. Down around Big Sur it is easy and so far very safe to crash for the night.

Hope you enjoy the trip and get the shots. My worst events (dangerous, threatening interactions) have occurred at evenings in the Eureka CA area, and in early morning along the road in Montana. Not bad for many hundreds of times in the wild.