Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: c5gowin on November 13, 2009, 05:11:13 pm
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FYI - David Farkas has posted an excellent Leica S2 review here www.dfarkas.blogspot.com
The review contains a lot of details about the S2 and its operation. It is a good read even if you aren't seriously considering the S2. It's a must if you are considering the S2. No review can't replace your own hands-on test of a camera, but it will give you a head start on learning the camera controls, operation, features, etc. and it likely trigger some things you want to ponder and pay particular attention to when you finally do get to try the camera. At least that is how I use a good camera review.
Mark Gowin
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It is a very nice review, and does point out some of the differences that set the S2 apart from the current crop of MF cameras (environmental sealing, for example). I'd certainly have taken a long hard look at the S2 if it had been available when I invested in my MF system earlier this year... although everything does cost twice as much!
It is a little gushing in places, but that's easy to forgive when someone clearly really likes the camera they are shooting with
Cheers, Hywel Phillips
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deleted
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"It is a little gushing in places, but that's easy to forgive when someone clearly sells the camera they are shooting with"
Slight edit for you
(http://www.twcenter.net/forums/images/smilies/emoticons/thumbs_up.gif)
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(http://www.twcenter.net/forums/images/smilies/emoticons/thumbs_up.gif)
There is no such thing as an unbiased review.
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deleted
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I went to a Toyota dealership today where the salesman told me they make great cars. It was good enough for me.
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There is no such thing as an unbiased review.
... some are just biaser than others
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David's review is based on his two days of shooting with an S2 pre-production model back in August.
I received an early production S2 with 70 and 180mm lenses this week, and will be posting my review here within the next two weeks.
Michael
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This is interesting (if unsurprising):
"I still remember a location shoot a few years ago where a friend of mine using the Leaf Aptus 75 (about $35K at the time) had to run from the beach into the bushes to see anything on his LCD screen. And, when your entire camera operation is touch screen like the Aptus, you have a little bit of a problem when it is invisible in daylight. On that same shoot, there was a photographer who was working with an Imacon back on his Hasselblad 501 C/M. Brave soul as he was, he was shooting low-down, lying on his stomach within striking distance of the Florida surf. Sure enough, a large wave came tumbling in and his camera got wet. After that heart-stopping experience, he just watched the rest of us. Turns out the back was fine after it dried out for a few hours, but the shoot was over for him."*
So 2 photographers, same shoot, both with extremely expensive cameras, apparently no assistants, no clients ... but the dealer was there?
I've been in this business a long time and this doesn't sound like a job to me.
Oh wait, it was a workshop
*(emphasis mine)
Actually, I wasn't a dealer for either system (Leaf or Imacon) on that shoot. I arranged a photo shoot at the beach for some out of town photographers to have fun. There was no sales pitch. How could there be? I was there to shoot for myself. It certainly wasn't a workshop, and I didn't get paid for it. I hosted them, provided the models, location, etc. so we could all go out and just have a good time. It is actually possible to enjoy taking pictures just for the fun of it. Just like it is possible for me to be friends with other photographers who may or may not be my customers.
David
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...So 2 photographers, same shoot, both with extremely expensive cameras, apparently no assistants, no clients ... but the dealer was there?
I've been in this business a long time and this doesn't sound like a job to me.
Oh wait, it was a workshop
*(emphasis mine)
I started this thread to inform those interested in the S2 that there was a new review available. Instead of generating a discussion on the S2, the thread quickly degenerated into an attack on the reviewer. That is sad. It is fine to point out that David is a Leica dealer and that he is enthusiastic about the S2. But, why is it necessary to go beyond facts and add inflammatory assumptions and commentary.
1. Were you on the shoot David described?
2. How do you know there weren't any assistants on the shoot?
3. Is it so hard to believe that a person that sells cameras may also be a photographer?
4. AFAIK David is not a dealer for Leaf, Imacon, or Hasselblad. So what is with the "dealer was there" comment and why would it matter anyway?
5. What makes you think it was a workshop and even if it was what difference would it make in the point of the story?
I remember now why I don't post on forums very often. Some people behave very differently than they would in a face-to-face discussion and those few make the forum experience unnecessarily unpleasant.
Mark Gowin
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David, I am glad you chimed in to clarify. I must have been typing my post when you posted your comments as I didn't see them or I wouldn't have felt the need to comment myself.
Michael, I look forward to your review of the S2. You have been using digital MF for a long time and will undoubtably have some good insights.
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1. Nope. I commented based on what he wrote and my experience being on professional shoots. Assumptions were made, some were incorrect and have been addressed.
2. I used the word apparently. An assistant would have most likely saved the 501 from the wave.
3. Anyone can be a photographer
4. I commented on this previously
5. It sounded like a workshop. What's wrong with that? If you like I can edit in "I guess" before that statement. A workshop as opposed to a job. See my subsequent comment.
I commented on the review you announced. It's a review by someone both impartial and knowledgeable. The part I quoted I found telling. The S2 (and many other MFDBs) are presented as Pro cameras. This shoot we later learned was a fun shoot. I don't know any pros who engage in such activities, esp with such cameras.
I don't believe I attacked David personally in my comments
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Hi,
In my view David's article contained excellent information. He also disclosed his involvement with Leica. He was clearly impressed by the Leica and there is nothing wrong with that. Lab measurements are objective, or at least pretend to be, everything else is subjective, we need to learn to live with that. No review is without a bias, if you like a product you have a positive bias and if you dislike it you have a negative bias. Some reviewers try hanrder to be objective than others.
Leica made a great show on the 9/9 2009, nothing compares with good and honest presentation, factory tour, proud, self confient and openminded developers.
Congratulations to all involved!
Best regards
Erik
I started this thread to inform those interested in the S2 that there was a new review available. Instead of generating a discussion on the S2, the thread quickly degenerated into an attack on the reviewer. That is sad. It is fine to point out that David is a Leica dealer and that he is enthusiastic about the S2. But, why is it necessary to go beyond facts and add inflammatory assumptions and commentary.
1. Were you on the shoot David described?
2. How do you know there weren't any assistants on the shoot?
3. Is it so hard to believe that a person that sells cameras may also be a photographer?
4. AFAIK David is not a dealer for Leaf, Imacon, or Hasselblad. So what is with the "dealer was there" comment and why would it matter anyway?
5. What makes you think it was a workshop and even if it was what difference would it make in the point of the story?
I remember now why I don't post on forums very often. Some people behave very differently than they would in a face-to-face discussion and those few make the forum experience unnecessarily unpleasant.
Mark Gowin
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Michael,
I enjoyed David's presentation and I'm looking forward to your review. I guess I never be on the waiting list for either Phase One or any Leica, but find the articles interesting. Leica did a good job on 9/9 and I'd believe they deserved a lot of sympathy those days in September.
Best regards
Erik
David's review is based on his two days of shooting with an S2 pre-production model back in August.
I received an early production S2 with 70 and 180mm lenses this week, and will be posting my review here within the next two weeks.
Michael
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Thank you, David for the review.
I appreciate the up-front disclosures you put in front of the article as well as the fact that you shared the glitches you ran into (minor or not). This enables me to make up my own mind about your comments with the benefit of proper context.
If I had found them too biased it would have been an easy matter to simply move on (your open disclosure makes the criticism some seem to feel somewhat puzzling to me), but personally I found your comments made for interesting reading.
Thanks,
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1. Nope. I commented based on what he wrote and my experience being on professional shoots. Assumptions were made, some were incorrect and have been addressed.
2. I used the word apparently. An assistant would have most likely saved the 501 from the wave.
3. Anyone can be a photographer
4. I commented on this previously
5. It sounded like a workshop. What's wrong with that? If you like I can edit in "I guess" before that statement. A workshop as opposed to a job. See my subsequent comment.
I commented on the review you announced. It's a review by someone both impartial and knowledgeable. The part I quoted I found telling. The S2 (and many other MFDBs) are presented as Pro cameras. This shoot we later learned was a fun shoot. I don't know any pros who engage in such activities, esp with such cameras.
I don't believe I attacked David personally in my comments
Perhaps I'll clarify further. There were five photographers present: an enthusiastic and knowledgeable amateur, three full-time working pros and myself. Besides having a good time, two of these guys had each just purchased Aptus 75 backs in Atlanta days earlier. This was an opportunity to go outside and stage a shoot without the pressures of a real job with clients and deadlines. Usually, it's a good idea to be familiar with your own equipment before using it for paying jobs. If you prefer to call this personal work, that's fine.
There are some photographers who want to know the ins and outs of their cameras and lighting equipment for themselves. Then, there are others that show up to a shoot, have assistants set up the lights and have a digital tech hand them a camera with the settings already dialed in. Not saying one is right or wrong, but these guys came out to learn about their systems first hand.
While I understand that you don't feel like you were attacking me personally, you did insinuate a lack of integrity and credibility on my part. And frankly, that does insult me. I work very hard to provide accurate and insightful information from the perspective of a photographer, not a dealer. If you disagree with something I've written, then say so, but please don't use my openness as a dealer to cast doubt on my conclusions.
David
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I did not mean to insult you or insinuate your review was inaccurate in any way.
As a photographer, not as a dealer, would you buy this camera?
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I think it looks like an awesome camera.
If it had 3 Tilt Shift lenses readily available,I certainly would consider one.
Best,
Willem.
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I think it looks like an awesome camera.
If it had 3 Tilt Shift lenses readily available,I certainly would consider one.
Best,
Willem.
itching again? i thought you were happy with the d3x?
seriously....i read the "review" and as much as i think it was a nice description of david's experience with the S2, i just can't forget that david has (as a leica dealer) large interest in making the S2 a success....not that i actually believe that he can make it one by himself by writing about it in his blog...
i also read the m9 "review" and disagree with a lot that is said there, i obviously can't say anything about the S2 because i haven't seen or held it....
either way...this is a dealer selling his goods....anyone should keep that in mind....
i am looking forward to michael's review....i really liked his openness about the x1....you just can't take any of these systems out of competition....and there is a lot of competition out there....for a lot less money....
about the "fun shoot"....i wasn't there...i don't care...but i find it heard warming that in these times someone takes the time and the considerable expense to put on a shoot on the beach complete with model and all...just for fun and friends...i am sure these expenses also weren't write-offs and david would put these things on if he wasn't selling cameras and other gear.....
the S2 looks great, i am sure the lenses are great, but there is nothing there we haven't seen or can't have better, cheaper somewhere else....but of course that won't stop people from buying it....good for them....and i am sure david will be happy to sell....good for him, he can put on more fun shoots....just for fun...
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David: FWIW, thank you for the in-depth review you did of this camera. I know Michael will have his own views and I look forward to reading them as well, but that in no way diminishes or denigrates your own experience.
Mike.
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2 reviews, if they ever happen, are going to be worth reading;
One made by gwhitf and the other by bcooter.
Both are working, successful pros, with tons of experience in shooting any existing or non existing cameras, lenses and software packages. In studio and out on the beach, tethered or not, low iso and high iso, jpeg and/ raw, strobe, HMI or dim sunset light, moving subjects or stiff models.
Both (I guess) will invest if the system fits their needs and their style and if it can make them happier or more successful.
They also have excellent writing skills and the ability to deliver real world information and experiences in an interesting way and there is no way they can be biased towards anything!
David, if you rise to the challenge and you get to sell to these two, you will get the utmost satisfaction and you will win two customers of the highest level. Let me know if you need their numbers.
I look forward...
Yair
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since i have never read anything from david which sounds even slightly critical of leica, i have to disregard the superlative adjectives which which he praises the S2.
so what remains from his review for me are the files. after having seen his images and much more recent DNGs all i can say so far is: nice IQ at base iso, although i believe
that DR-wise the S2 is behind modern CMOS technology as well as behind the top MF offerings. but of course this needs further testing. at higher than base iso there
is a very fast decay of IQ, which becomes rather dramatic > iso 600.
i do believe that the camera handles very nicely, which certainly has a seductive effect on photographers and testers. if we only talk IQ, there is nothing special about the S2.
or do we really need another CCD-dinosaur quasi-MF camera?
peter
itching again? i thought you were happy with the d3x?
seriously....i read the "review" and as much as i think it was a nice description of david's experience with the S2, i just can't forget that david has (as a leica dealer) large interest in making the S2 a success....not that i actually believe that he can make it one by himself by writing about it in his blog...
i also read the m9 "review" and disagree with a lot that is said there, i obviously can't say anything about the S2 because i haven't seen or held it....
either way...this is a dealer selling his goods....anyone should keep that in mind....
i am looking forward to michael's review....i really liked his openness about the x1....you just can't take any of these systems out of competition....and there is a lot of competition out there....for a lot less money....
about the "fun shoot"....i wasn't there...i don't care...but i find it heard warming that in these times someone takes the time and the considerable expense to put on a shoot on the beach complete with model and all...just for fun and friends...i am sure these expenses also weren't write-offs and david would put these things on if he wasn't selling cameras and other gear.....
the S2 looks great, i am sure the lenses are great, but there is nothing there we haven't seen or can't have better, cheaper somewhere else....but of course that won't stop people from buying it....good for them....and i am sure david will be happy to sell....good for him, he can put on more fun shoots....just for fun...
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or do we really need another CCD-dinosaur quasi-MF camera?
peter
Nice epitaph. Kodak and Dalsa are dinosaurs. They laugh at those funny little monkeys
Edmund
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2 reviews, if they ever happen, are going to be worth reading;
One made by gwhitf and the other by bcooter.
David, if you rise to the challenge and you get to sell to these two, you will get the utmost satisfaction and you will win two customers of the highest level. Let me know if you need their numbers.
Yair
Except, I believe those two are very committed customers of Dave's Capture Integration.
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Nice epitaph. Kodak and Dalsa are dinosaurs. They laugh at those funny little monkeys
Edmund
edmund,
in a way they are dinosaurs in the photographic industry. certainly CCD ist still the state of the art in satellite imaging and
defense contracts but in the photographic applications that 'we' are interested in, CMOS has advanced at an incredible pace
and all CCD technology has done is add MPX (and some sensor real estate).
peter
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Except, I believe those two are very committed customers of Dave's Capture Integration.
Billy,
No I don't think I'm committed to any camera store, but let me check.
I'll look in my closet at my Leather NASCAR Jacket. I keep it for all of my sponsorships.
Let's see, I've got a deal with Fram Oil Filters, Little Debbie Fruit Cakes, Oh yea Mountain Dew, but no I don't see any Dave's CI. I do have Dave's Roller Bearings out of Topeka and Dave's Gentlemen's Club over on Culver Blvd, so maybe that would be a conflict.
Hmm, that's interesting, I do have a Podass logo but I think that's a Cajun Hot Sauce, pretty funny logo too, it's got all these guys standing around a barn holding a catfish po' boy.
Yair,
Thanks for the compliment, (if it is a compliment) but Dave Farkas is probably looking for something different. I kind of knock the paint off of this stuff and I've never gone to the beach with a camera in my hand to have fun.
Tuesday we go to the beach with 2,000 lbs of metal and electricity to work, but it's not really that much fun.
I do own a Leica M 8 and I like it (no pun intended) though I hate the new E.U. rules where you have to wear a sweater on your shoulders when you shoot with it.
Because of this rule when I'm in Continental Europe I use an alias, Maxin Pistole, so nobody knows it's me.
But If I could be so lucky to test a S-2 first thing I'd do is NOT shoot any orange faces on wrinkled seamless paper, I'd never shoot a color chart and do my best to promise not to shoot an eyeball.
I'd also hire a hair and makeup artist, use talent that actually works, have a full crew and spend some money on the photograph.
What I would do is shoot the crap out of it tethered, pull the plug, stick the cable back in and see how difficult it is to restart the software.
I'd look at the lcd in bright sunlight and shade, compare it to the computer and see if it's even close to relevant.
I'd shoot the lenses wide open, the camera a 1/30th and push the hell out of the file using a jukebox for a key light.
Most of all I'd go back at 9 pm and batch process our 1,000 files and run a timer.
In the middle of my lunch break I'd put on my most famous French/Italian accent and become Maxin Pistole and call Samy's, SmashBox, Irene's PRS, Pix, Fotocare, The Piers, Splashlight, MattPhot and PearTree and say this;
Uh, " i have zee news Lecias Esses Twos and my 70 meters of milli lens she no works because the focus is behind the front of the panties, so I needs to rent ones or twos of these lens. Do you have this in stock? Can you give me these things I need?
Thanks,
Maxin, uh I mean BC.
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[quote name='bcooter' date='Nov 14 2009, 02:44 PM' post='324871']
Billy,
I do own a Leica M 8 and I like it (no pun intended) though I hate the new E.U. rules where you have to wear a sweater on your shoulders when you shoot with it.
That was funny.
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.....could you also, please, at some point turn off your high powered light(n)ing stuff and dial in a value above base iso? just up to 650....thanks, peter
Billy,
No I don't think I'm committed to any camera store, but let me check.
I'll look in my closet at my Leather NASCAR Jacket. I keep it for all of my sponsorships.
Let's see, I've got a deal with Fram Oil Filters, Little Debbie Fruit Cakes, Oh yea Mountain Dew, but no I don't see any Dave's CI. I do have Dave's Roller Bearings out of Topeka and Dave's Gentlemen's Club over on Culver Blvd, so maybe that would be a conflict.
Hmm, that's interesting, I do have a Podass logo but I think that's a Cajun Hot Sauce, pretty funny logo too, it's got all these guys standing around a barn holding a catfish po' boy.
Yair,
Thanks for the compliment, (if it is a compliment) but Dave Farkas is probably looking for something different. I kind of knock the paint off of this stuff and I've never gone to the beach with a camera in my hand to have fun.
Tuesday we go to the beach with 2,000 lbs of metal and electricity to work, but it's not really that much fun.
I do own a Leica M 8 and I like it (no pun intended) though I hate the new E.U. rules where you have to wear a sweater on your shoulders when you shoot with it.
Because of this rule when I'm in Continental Europe I use an alias, Maxin Pistole, so nobody knows it's me.
But If I could be so lucky to test a S-2 first thing I'd do is NOT shoot any orange faces on wrinkled seamless paper, I'd never shoot a color chart and do my best to promise not to shoot an eyeball.
I'd also hire a hair and makeup artist, use talent that actually works, have a full crew and spend some money on the photograph.
What I would do is shoot the crap out of it tethered, pull the plug, stick the cable back in and see how difficult it is to restart the software.
I'd look at the lcd in bright sunlight and shade, compare it to the computer and see if it's even close to relevant.
I'd shoot the lenses wide open, the camera a 1/30th and push the hell out of the file using a jukebox for a key light.
Most of all I'd go back at 9 pm and batch process our 1,000 files and run a timer.
In the middle of my lunch break I'd put on my most famous French/Italian accent and become Maxin Pistole and call Samy's, SmashBox, Irene's PRS, Pix, Fotocare, The Piers, Splashlight, MattPhot and PearTree and say this;
Uh, " i have zee news Lecias Esses Twos and my 70 meters of milli lens she no works because the focus is behind the front of the panties, so I needs to rent ones or twos of these lens. Do you have this in stock? Can you give me these things I need?
Thanks,
Maxin, uh I mean BC.
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.....could you also, please, at some point turn off your high powered light(n)ing stuff and dial in a value above base iso? just up to 650....thanks, peter
All kidding aside.
I didn't see Mr. Farkas' beach shoot, I really don't know anything about it, (actually didn't know who Mr. Farkas was until he posted on this forum) though I have seen other samples from the S-2 and like most high end camera test samples that float around the web, they're low budget and awful.
I guess it depends on who they market to, but other than Hasselblad, every one of the specialty camera makers does a dismal job of presenting images and marketing. Leaf use to be real good at it and built a reputation and following as a photographer's film like digital back,
but the recent Leaf website looks pretty sparse from the "good ol' days".
Yair knows this, he had a lot to do with building Leaf's rep and I'm sure let loose with some budget he could put Leaf back where it was. He knew you talked film like, and beauty and photographic terms, not pixel peeping, eye bleeding detail that nobody wants to see anyway.
It just seems like the makers of these cameras either go full zoot retouched or show some alley shot, or color chart laying in the weeds.
It's the same with the videos. They always show someone shooting with a camera but not much information on what happens during a pressured shoot where things can go wrong, (and if they can they usually will) or what happens to the images after the shoot.
There is a place for medium format in the world of editorial and commerce, but rarely do the makers show that place, which in most images comes with creative briefs, schedules, budgets, gallery delivery, selection of images, retouching, coloring to finish out under unbelievable deadlines and very high expectations.
IMO, the camera makers would do themselves a favor to really show a working scenario, what happens when things go bad like a stylist trips on a fw cord, or when a client says in the middle of shooting "let's process out 10 files to send to the VP of marketing on jpegs".
They should take this or any camera, beat the living hell out of it, shoot it like they stole it and then go into post production showing start to finish.
There's value in that type of unvarnished review and we all know that no camera is perfect. I think it's better to say "well, it took 4 minutes to restart the computer after the software crashed", than to let the buyer find it out later. I think it's important to show the truth behind the image.
We all know every image that has international play usually has a fair amount of retouching and manipulation. Show it, show how the file holds up.
That's the value in one of these expensive cameras, not going out and showing bad samples, or a fun shoot and don't show just one session repeated over and over. Do the real world thing and most importantly show beautiful final imagery. Always.
Again, IMO.
BC
P.S. And never show one of those head and shoulder shots with 10,000 watts of profoto. Every digital image from almost any camera at that crop with that much light looks really detailed.
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Just to be positive, I absolutely agree!
Erik
David: FWIW, thank you for the in-depth review you did of this camera. I know Michael will have his own views and I look forward to reading them as well, but that in no way diminishes or denigrates your own experience.
Mike.
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Just to be positive, I absolutely agree!
Erik
David: FWIW, thank you for the in-depth review you did of this camera. I know Michael will have his own views and I look forward to reading them as well, but that in no way diminishes or denigrates your own experience.
Mike.
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Can we please have a show of hands then, as to who want's to be the photographer, who looks like he doesn't know what he's doing.
Come on BC, it's called advertising - you know how it works - we all do.
Lets face it, it's what most of us do for a living, day in, day out.
So why expect these companies to do anything different than you do... because I'm sure you don't show your new clients all the out-takes, of things that have gone wrong during shoots.
Different level of speech. A camera manufacturer would have to show us how they messed up their R&D and production to do what you are suggesting.
BC's suggestion makes total sense and the equivalent of it for a photographer is simply to show how his end images can help promote a product.
Cheers,
Bernard
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...
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smart move Peter.
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How did that song go again?
Let it be ...
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.....could you also, please, at some point turn off your high powered light(n)ing stuff and dial in a value above base iso? just up to 650....thanks, peter
if somebody could get permission to shoot this rig at even 400asa
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maybe the leica is a nice camera. maybe leica will survive it.
i give them a bit more chances now than i did before, i even did not believed that this S2 project will arrive at the market and obviously i was wrong.
i think you have to have either enough money not to care about it at all, or not being aware what happened in the last 2 years ( HY6 !!! ) to buy in such system and to believe you can use your optics in 3 years with the next leica S3 too.
maybe yes. maybe not. thats why i`d call it very brave to buy in it.
..... and ....... soon canon will knock at the 30mp gate. but as long there are people who believe that 16 claimed bit are visible better than 14 , maybe there is enough money there to let leica live a while longer. yes, i know, the optics. and the red dot ......
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All kidding aside.
I didn't see Mr. Farkas' beach shoot, I really don't know anything about it, (actually didn't know who Mr. Farkas was until he posted on this forum) though I have seen other samples from the S-2 and like most high end camera test samples that float around the web, they're low budget and awful.
I guess it depends on who they market to, but other than Hasselblad, every one of the specialty camera makers does a dismal job of presenting images and marketing. Leaf use to be real good at it and built a reputation and following as a photographer's film like digital back,
but the recent Leaf website looks pretty sparse from the "good ol' days".
Yair knows this, he had a lot to do with building Leaf's rep and I'm sure let loose with some budget he could put Leaf back where it was. He knew you talked film like, and beauty and photographic terms, not pixel peeping, eye bleeding detail that nobody wants to see anyway.
It just seems like the makers of these cameras either go full zoot retouched or show some alley shot, or color chart laying in the weeds.
It's the same with the videos. They always show someone shooting with a camera but not much information on what happens during a pressured shoot where things can go wrong, (and if they can they usually will) or what happens to the images after the shoot.
There is a place for medium format in the world of editorial and commerce, but rarely do the makers show that place, which in most images comes with creative briefs, schedules, budgets, gallery delivery, selection of images, retouching, coloring to finish out under unbelievable deadlines and very high expectations.
IMO, the camera makers would do themselves a favor to really show a working scenario, what happens when things go bad like a stylist trips on a fw cord, or when a client says in the middle of shooting "let's process out 10 files to send to the VP of marketing on jpegs".
They should take this or any camera, beat the living hell out of it, shoot it like they stole it and then go into post production showing start to finish.
There's value in that type of unvarnished review and we all know that no camera is perfect. I think it's better to say "well, it took 4 minutes to restart the computer after the software crashed", than to let the buyer find it out later. I think it's important to show the truth behind the image.
We all know every image that has international play usually has a fair amount of retouching and manipulation. Show it, show how the file holds up.
That's the value in one of these expensive cameras, not going out and showing bad samples, or a fun shoot and don't show just one session repeated over and over. Do the real world thing and most importantly show beautiful final imagery. Always.
Again, IMO.
BC
P.S. And never show one of those head and shoulder shots with 10,000 watts of profoto. Every digital image from almost any camera at that crop with that much light looks really detailed.
I agree 100%, but as has been the case with strobes, carts, cases, stands, tripods etc etc etc.... it's up to us to find out which gear is REALLY designed to hold up to the rigors of what we do in the real world. There is no excuse for software issues from accidental disconnects these days. That is a major problem and no manufacturer should be selling to professionals with that issue. Fix it first and please - all reviewers should check this issue out when testing these cameras. Why should we spend 30K+ on any camera without stable software, bright VGA LCDs, tethering, live view, etc etc etc...
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Mr. Farkas has done a very nice writeup of his experiences with the S2, but I don't think anything apart from real-world usage will actually be able to inform the decisions of people who really *shoot* their cameras, and real studio samples.
Oh, and btw, anyone seen an ISO 640 sample, yet?
Edmund
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Mr. Farkas has done a very nice writeup of his experiences with the S2, but I don't think anything apart from real-world usage will actually be able to inform the decisions of people who really *shoot* their cameras, and real studio samples.
Oh, and btw, anyone seen an ISO 640 sample, yet?
Edmund
yes, i have seen recent DNGs. worse than what the M9 produces. final firmware might get 1/2 stop improvement, not more. rather dreadful, even compared to the P65+.
the S2 is a nice camera with an untimely sensor, unless you only shouut base iso.
peter
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yes, i have seen recent DNGs. worse than what the M9 produces. final firmware might get 1/2 stop improvement, not more. rather dreadful, even compared to the P65+.
the S2 is a nice camera with an untimely sensor, unless you only shouut base iso.
peter
Yeah, Kodak and Dalsa seem to want their customers to fail.
Edmund
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To me the image quality looks like something in between a DSLR and a MF camera, more on the DSLR side for some reason. Bokeh is good, though.
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Exactly, because that's what it is, a "middle" format system. To me it looks on both sides equally. Resolution more on the MF side but it lacks some of the 3D effect of the bigger sensors like 48X36 and beyond.
Eduardo
To me the image quality looks like something in between a DSLR and a MF camera, more on the DSLR side for some reason. Bokeh is good, though.
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yes, i have seen recent DNGs. worse than what the M9 produces. final firmware might get 1/2 stop improvement, not more. rather dreadful, even compared to the P65+.
the S2 is a nice camera with an untimely sensor, unless you only shouut base iso.
peter
With all due respect, this is complete rubbish.
I own a P65+, a Leica M9, and am currently testing a production Leica S2. The S2's files at ISO 640 are astonishingly clean.
Michael
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With all due respect, this is complete rubbish.
I own a P65+, a Leica M9, and am currently testing a production Leica S2. The S2's files at ISO 640 are astonishingly clean.
Michael
One of the great tricks in reading forums. Filtering out the truth from the fiction.
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With all due respect, this is complete rubbish.
I own a P65+, a Leica M9, and am currently testing a production Leica S2. The S2's files at ISO 640 are astonishingly clean.
Michael
Show us.
Edmund
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Michael,
Are you using LR3 Beta? on my A900 noise is like night and day between 2.5 and 3Beta at high ISO.
I'm looking forward to your review. For some reason, David Farkas "review" got a lot of negative comments.
And S2 i something that I neither need nor can afford, but it's always interesting to read about leading technology. In my humble view the videos from your visit at Leica were most informative, and that also aplies to the videos from Phase One.
Best regards
Erik
With all due respect, this is complete rubbish.
I own a P65+, a Leica M9, and am currently testing a production Leica S2. The S2's files at ISO 640 are astonishingly clean.
Michael
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Show us.
Edmund
As soon as I have a little time I'll put some files up. I'm busy shooting and doing tests because I only have the camera for another 11 days. There'll be lots of time afterward for processing and posting.
Michael
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With all due respect, this is complete rubbish.
<snip>
Michael
A thorough literary analysis of the two separate clauses of this statement suggests to me that Michael was not entirely sincere in making it.
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As soon as I have a little time I'll put some files up. I'm busy shooting and doing tests because I only have the camera for another 11 days. There'll be lots of time afterward for processing and posting.
Michael
Michael,
There is a lot of talk that the S-2 is for the country club set and not intended for professional photographers, though Leica seems to continually portray this camera as a fashion, people camera, so when you do you test, please do the following.
1. Track focus with a subject, even one walking to or from camera. It doesn't have to be a fast pace, but something along these lines.
(http://russellrutherford.com/fashion/pictures/00010rr_salon.jpg)
2. Do a tethered test and shoot 300 to 400 images in succession. It can be of a foot, it doesn't matter but guage how long it takes to see an image on screen, if the images can be named coming into the computer, if the software connection between the
Leica software and Lightroom is stable and holds up. If it doesn't how long it takes to restart the system.
3. When tethered, does the lcd work, can you shoot to card and computer at the same time and can the photographer scroll through the images on the camera while connected to the computer.
4. Please post some jpeg examples of how they look in relationship to the raws (for web gallery delivery).
Thx.
JR
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James,
I did some focus tracking tests today, of joggers in the park. Not so good. :-(
I have a studio shoot scheduled for later in the week. Planning on tethered shooting, but not sure if the software is yet up to snuff.
But so far the image quality is superb. :-)
Michael
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James,
I did some focus tracking tests today, of joggers in the park. Not so good. :-(
I have a studio shoot scheduled for later in the week. Planning on tethered shooting, but not sure if the software is yet up to snuff.
But so far the image quality is superb. :-)
Michael
Thanks
JR
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Michael,
It would be nice if you could post some comparable pictures between S2, Phase One, 20+MP DSLR, M9 and Micro 4/3, preferably in RAW or DNG. I presume that this would be an invitation to arguments for those who always complain, about tests by others but newer publish anything of their own. The 2006 MFDB shootout was a great example of a well executed test.
Best regards
Erik
As soon as I have a little time I'll put some files up. I'm busy shooting and doing tests because I only have the camera for another 11 days. There'll be lots of time afterward for processing and posting.
Michael
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With all due respect, this is complete rubbish.
I own a P65+, a Leica M9, and am currently testing a production Leica S2. The S2's files at ISO 640 are astonishingly clean.
Michael
with all due respect, i have already noticed that we have diverging IQ standards at times. so this time please show us comparative
high iso tests with shots not taken in bright light under the best of all conditions. we are interested in how the camera renders
transition zones and low light shooting. your review will surely make an interesting read.
looking forward, peter
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"Can we please have a show of hands then, as to who want's to be the photographer, who looks like he doesn't know what he's doing.
Come on BC, it's called advertising - you know how it works - we all do.
Lets face it, it's what most of us do for a living, day in, day out.
So why expect these companies to do anything different than you do... because I'm sure you don't show your new clients all the out-takes, of things that have gone wrong during shoots."
============
I agree that what JR is asking for is important information to know. It would not need to be a documentary of a photographer botching a shoot, but it could be a demonstration that shows that you can unplug, shoot handheld to a card, and then replug, and within 30 seconds be back shooting tethered again. **This, to me, would be a major selling point.**
Rather than have to shut down while you restart the camera, restart the computer, restart the shooting app, unplug and replug the wires a few times, etc., etc.
I have been recently been to a demo of phase backs where the dealer could not keep the camera tethered properly, there were multiple software relaunches, etc., etc. It is an absolute turn-off, and I walked out, instead of spending 15 grand like I otherwise may have. I am thinking about shooting with art directors breathing down my neck, and 15-minute glitchy restarts do not appeal to me. I am pretty sure that every photographer I know would like this info about any camera they are about to buy for commerce: Is it plug and play or plug and pray?
(the money is on the table and the clock is ticking...)
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It would not need to be a documentary of a photographer botching a shoot, but it could be a demonstration that shows that you can unplug, shoot handheld to a card, and then replug, and within 30 seconds be back shooting tethered again. **This, to me, would be a major selling point.**
That is a great post. I agree completely. It's always amazed me why retailer or dealer or even manufacturers don't use free services like YouTube to demonstrate how something really works. YouTube is there for the asking. It does not have to be some slick Hollywood production; actually, in my opinion, it's almost more believable if it IS just some guy in a field, or in an office, and it's one handheld 5D2, and it just one guy talking.
I remember I was considering the H2 once, and a friend of mine had one, and he said, "Hey, let's just go on iChat and I'll show you how fast it shoots". So we did. There we were, with some nasty video feed, with the laptop lid camera, but he held the button down and held it up, and you could put your faith in it, and really get a sense of it, much differently than some slick Hollywood production.
Imagine if there was a video, and some guy is shooting tethered, and he yanks the FW cable to shoot some frames to card, (or a makeup artist trips over it), and he can then just plug it back in and you really watch how simple it is (or not) to regain the connection. Even a bad jerky video like that, real world, would mean more to me than a polished (and heavily edited) manufacturer video.
You can go onto YouTube to find out how to change a tire, start a fire, put on makeup, cook food -- shouldn't there be a video there showing real world camera use too? (Or would the truth be too scary?)
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That's what I was getting at in my earlier posts - I don't think people like Lisa or JR or BC or GWITF are the target for these cameras no matter how "pro" the systems want to appear.
PODAS is the target. People who shoot for enjoyment, or art, or themselves. In groups on the beach perhaps. People who can afford it and feel they need it. People who don't have AD's to answer to or insane amounts to shoot in a week, day or hour. Not people who will complain because the software is glitchy, the lenses aren't in rental or don't exist at all, or taste their own bile in their throats when they realize how much easier and more reliable DPP is.
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That's what I was getting at in my earlier posts - I don't think people like Lisa or JR or BC or GWITF are the target for these cameras no matter how "pro" the systems want to appear. PODAS is the target.
Right. Whenever JR posts something, I am reminded that the world is unfair...
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Rather than have to shut down while you restart the camera, restart the computer, restart the shooting app, unplug and replug the wires a few times, etc., etc.
I have been recently been to a demo of phase backs where the dealer could not keep the camera tethered properly, there were multiple software relaunches, etc., etc. It is an absolute turn-off, and I walked out, instead of spending 15 grand like I otherwise may have. I am thinking about shooting with art directors breathing down my neck, and 15-minute glitchy restarts do not appeal to me. I am pretty sure that every photographer I know would like this info about any camera they are about to buy for commerce: Is it plug and play or plug and pray?
(the money is on the table and the clock is ticking...)
Tough luck for the Phase rep. LOL
Last week I shot an editorial of about 8/900 captures in 1 day with my pee thirty. I have deliberately unplugged it a few times (when i was between shots) and never had a problem when reconnecting it. not even needed of restarting the software once during the day.
I normally unplug the Phase back and reconnect it when i'm between shots and hardly have a problem. I even had lunch in between the last "unplug and re-plug" and got it back to work after the coffee without problems. LOL
BTW still running C1 version 4.8, on snow leopard and a macbook pro.
I have to say that one of the pleasant surprises of using the Phase back this year, has been reliability and good connectivity.
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I don't think people like Lisa or JR or BC or GWITF are the target for these cameras no matter how "pro" the systems want to appear.
PODAS is the target. People who shoot for enjoyment, or art, or themselves. In groups on the beach perhaps. People who can afford it and feel they need it. People who don't have AD's to answer to or insane amounts to shoot in a week,
Ahem: Just Announced!!! The $15,000 hermes M7, available in either orange or etoupe calfskin leather. (http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/16/leica-m7-edition-hermes-drops-this-december-at-a-price-you-cant/)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/11/091117-leicam7-g01.jpg)
Just sayin.
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Ahem: Just Announced!!! The $15,000 hermes M7, available in either orange or etoupe calfskin leather. (http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/16/leica-m7-edition-hermes-drops-this-december-at-a-price-you-cant/)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/11/091117-leicam7-g01.jpg)
Just sayin.
Gag me with a spoon, that's so tubular!
Edmund
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It also looks like a very poor photoshop job, er, applying the orange to that one in the back...for $15K can't they at least shoot the actual product?
(ok, I know I am way off topic here, so back to the business of the S2...)
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just read the aptus 10 review....it goes pretty much against everything asked for in this thread (and by many of us for quite a while)....lack of software support, with promises of future fixes, camera/back freezes (because one dares to shoot before the back is ready!),....several calls to tech support necessary within the first days....all this on a seemingly mature product at a very hefty price...of course buying a leaf back is an adventurous choice these days but still, i used to own a valeo and all in all it worked pretty well....
i am surprised by the well natured tone of the reviewer...like buying DMF is supposed to be a strange experience at best....and i am glad that he is happy with his purchase and the quality....
to be honest i never had any experiences like these with my leaf or phase backs....yes there were some issues and some lock ups, but all in all not even close to what is described in this review....i am amazed to how low the expectations have dropped....
i don't really want to beat a dead horse but a 5DII has none of these issues and does so much more for so much less...yes it does not provide the ultimate image quality and there is a difference in the files....but why the handling issues?
i also hate to do the old car comparison but this is like the steering wheel coming off in the ferrari at 150mph....not fun...by far not as lethal but not fun at all....and it leaves a bad taste....after waiting for 6! weeeks for this high end thing i kind of expect it to work and not freeze...even with an older contax body...or don't sell it for contax at least warn people that they HAVE to wait for the beep or prepare for a total system meltdown....
considering that with the m8 the story was similar (with the magenta, filter, coding,...issues)....i can't wait to see what the s2 will be like....as with all cameras (and especially those with aging sensors like this one in the S2) by the time it actually ships it already feels like old news....and the idea that there is no working tethering software/firmware available YET is a little strange for a camera whose studio/workflow capabilities are a main selling point....
i thought it wasn't shipping because demand was so high? if that was the case shouldn't the software be ready? and for the S2 to "make it" it should be absolutely bullet proof by now and perform everyhting asked for here.....as far as i remember i could yank the cord with my P30 and shoot to card, and plug it back in and shoot to card and computer...no problems...
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Ahem: Just Announced!!! The $15,000 hermes M7, available in either orange or etoupe calfskin leather. (http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/16/leica-m7-edition-hermes-drops-this-december-at-a-price-you-cant/)
Just sayin.
no need to exaggerate ... it's only $14,250.
a real a bargain, compared to the s2. and won't be obsolete in 12 months. (ok, maybe the colors will)
actually, for the same price as the s2 one can have both the safety cone orange and baby shit brown versions,
to spare one the agony of having to choose between these two power colors.
just sayn' ...
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no need to exaggerate ... it's only $14,250.
a real a bargain, compared to the s2. and won't be obsolete in 12 months. (ok, maybe the colors will)
actually, for the same price as the s2 one can have both the safety cone orange and baby shit brown versions,
to spare one the agony of having to choose between these two power colors.
just sayn' ...
funny thing is....since there are only 100 made....they probably are a pretty good investment....just don't use them (too much)...
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actually, for the same price as the s2 one can have both the safety cone orange and baby shit brown versions,
As far as color is concerned, it can easily be solved with a piece or two of gaffer tape.
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If Leica were smart they would stop the camera, and change the sensor, or guarantee that the electronics (even the AF) are modular and can be factory-swapped. Shipping a slow sensor like that in a dSLR format is suicidal. I don't think they'll get more than one chance at this market, unless they offer huge trade-ins for the owners of a mediocre first generation.
When you have a 5D or something your lenses are typically worth as much as the camera. Here many owners are going to own a couple of lenses, and if the camera doesn't perform paying for the new model which costs twice as much as the lenses will be a non-runner.
Edmund
considering that with the m8 the story was similar (with the magenta, filter, coding,...issues)....i can't wait to see what the s2 will be like....as with all cameras (and especially those with aging sensors like this one in the S2) by the time it actually ships it already feels like old news....and the idea that there is no working tethering software/firmware available YET is a little strange for a camera whose studio/workflow capabilities are a main selling point....and shoot to card, and plug it back in and shoot to card and computer...no problems...
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"If Leica were smart they would stop the camera, and change the sensor"
And what sensor should they use instead? >4fps and liveview would be cool but sacrificing quality <640ASA to achieve that in such a camera? Has anybody really seen any camera which is capable of higher per-pixel-quality than the current 6µm-CCD-MFDBs? Please, show me one sample with higher DR, better tonal range/transition, detail...
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no need to exaggerate ... it's only $14,250.
a real a bargain, compared to the s2. and won't be obsolete in 12 months. (ok, maybe the colors will)
actually, for the same price as the s2 one can have both the safety cone orange and baby shit brown versions,
to spare one the agony of having to choose between these two power colors.
just sayn' ...
No doubt the orange one is aimed at road workers, and the brown one at the people who drive pooper scoopers. I wonder if these cameras come with a courtesy red nose and revolving bow tie?
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"If Leica were smart they would stop the camera, and change the sensor"
And what sensor should they use instead? >4fps and liveview would be cool but sacrificing quality <640ASA to achieve that in such a camera? Has anybody really seen any camera which is capable of higher per-pixel-quality than the current 6µm-CCD-MFDBs? Please, show me one sample with higher DR, better tonal range/transition, detail...
Why should this product, which doesn't exist be better than the ones which do, and which are inadequate?
Edmund
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"If Leica were smart they would stop the camera, and change the sensor"
And what sensor should they use instead? >4fps and liveview would be cool but sacrificing quality <640ASA to achieve that in such a camera? Has anybody really seen any camera which is capable of higher per-pixel-quality than the current 6µm-CCD-MFDBs? Please, show me one sample with higher DR, better tonal range/transition, detail...
i agree that at base iso the current 6mu CCDs perform best. but many people like to put those sensors on technical cameras to allow for
movements and to further optimize IQ. this is not possible with the S2...so there we are, with a base iso DSLR. slightly better (base iso)
IQ than the D3x, much less convenience (live view, image stabilized lenses etc), very restricted system and finally the ridiculous price.
peter
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i agree that at base iso the current 6mu CCDs perform best. but many people like to put those sensors on technical cameras to allow for
movements and to further optimize IQ. this is not possible with the S2...so there we are, with a base iso DSLR. slightly better (base iso)
IQ than the D3x, much less convenience (live view, image stabilized lenses etc), very restricted system and finally the ridiculous price.
peter
The problem with the price is that the sensor costs almost nothing in that size (sub $1K, it's size, not MP which counts) and the rest of the camera is just an oversized R9.
You're not paying for camera build quality, you're paying for Leica to amortize the same electronics and image processing R&D as for a Nikon D3x on a production run of a couple of thousand. And you're paying for the promotional celebrity giveaways.
In other words you're paying for Leica to reinvent itself in the digital space. I'm happy you will be the one doing the paying.
Edmund
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And you're paying for the promotional celebrity giveaways.
If the M7 has a limited-edition run of 100 bodies at $14k apiece, imagine what the limited-edition run of the Leopard "Seal" S2 version would sell for! But at least it would be water-resistant. Maybe a cool $100,000k per body, and it comes delivered in its own Matthew Barney fish tank?
Stop the madness. The 80's are over.
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Does it seem to anyone else that there are two divergent strands regarding the s2?
One strand focuses on IQ - lens and sensor integration, optical performance, etc. It is likely the s2 will excel at this, as its Leica's strength for years.
A second strand of interests focuses on the larger picture and the overall system integration of the camera with its files to a larger set of issues that are part of a contemporary pro's life. Software flexibility and integration, file compatibility, tethering, debugging, rental availability, and service are all part of this second set of issues. Obviously, with digital work some of theseare more critical than in the days of film. But are all of them equally important? Not necessarily.
Can a pro accept a camera that excels in IQ but not necessarily in the second set? Is there a minimum acceptable performance level for the second criteria, which all serious cameras must meet? Then we could recognize that some are better than others in that way - and some companies, especially really big ones, are going to do better than smaller ones?
A pro's threshold in each of these categories may be different than the serious amateur. A pro might accept slightly less IQ performance, as they search for better systems performance. An amateur, however discerning, may well be willing to give up some things (rentability, service, or even tethering) in search of portability and IQ. Different pros may have different sets of priorities as well.
The idea here is to encourage more definition and separation of these issues, and perhaps reduce the carping and clutter that comes with it.
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Does it seem to anyone else that there are two divergent strands regarding the s2?
There's also handling, ergonomics and usability in the field.
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There's also handling, ergonomics and usability in the field.
There's also the red dot.
I would be happy to pay $20,000 if I could buy a camera that made me feel as young and enthusiastic about photography as I was when I got my first Leica - though my guess is the feeling would probably not last much longer than until the end of the month when I got my credit card bill.
Who says photography is just about photography?
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Tuesday we go to the beach with 2,000 lbs of metal and electricity to work, but it's not really that much fun.
I do own a Leica M 8 and I like it (no pun intended) though I hate the new E.U. rules where you have to wear a sweater on your shoulders when you shoot with it.
In the middle of my lunch break I'd put on my most famous French/Italian accent and become Maxin Pistole and call Samy's, SmashBox, Irene's PRS, Pix, Fotocare, The Piers, Splashlight, MattPhot and PearTree and say this;
Uh, " i have zee news Lecias Esses Twos and my 70 meters of milli lens she no works because the focus is behind the front of the panties, so I needs to rent ones or twos of these lens. Do you have this in stock? Can you give me these things I need?
Maxin, uh I mean BC.
Bcooter, you just made my whole fucking week!! haven't laughed this hard since Sarah Palin saw Kamchatka...
- N.
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re: "lens and sensor integration, optical performance, etc. It is likely the s2 will excel at this, as its Leica's strength for years."
As I pointed out in another thread (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=39197), this purple fringing from the Leica 70mm lens does not look superior to me. Same issues as any other (and far cheaper) fast lens.
Re:
http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p775893693/h3b47e28e#h354bc47e (http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p775893693/h3b47e28e#h354bc47e)
Now I am quoting myself here:
"two months ago people were looking at the Leica charts and graphs and salivating. Now, as I suspected, these mad money lenses have not, in fact, changed the laws of physics ;-) Good luck telling the difference between these and a $200 Mamiya 80mm lens in print ;-)"
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! haven't laughed this hard since Sarah Palin saw Kamchatka...
- N.
Mr. N.,
Thanks you for the kind response, though this Sarah Palin, is she a artist of panties also, maybe a panty model?
As the luck would have come about, I sell my beautiful Esses Of Two Leica. My best friend Zippitone, the concierge at the Delano help me sell it to Madonna's new boyfriend and I got the tops of the dollar.
Without fortune, the Esses Of Two 70 milli lens, accidentally fall out of my Key Biscayne Condo during a new panty shoot. The focus behind the panties was just too much hard for me so I throw, I mean, with accident drop the lens off the balcony.
So my Leica experience with life comes to an end. I now have the 5's of D Canon and the panties are always in focus so my life is very good right now, except the owner of the Monte Carlo by Chevrolet car that the lens land on is asking my immigration law firm about reparations of the hood of the car, which seems very unfair as it was a new lens and a very old car.
I may have to move back to Malta but the good of the experience is I now have the camera most professional photographs prefer the most.
Maxin
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"The problem with the price is that the sensor costs almost nothing in that size (sub $1K, it's size, not MP which counts) and the rest of the camera is just an oversized R9"
And the D3x is just an oversized D60 then? When you handle the S2 you instantly notice that material and fit&finish are quite different from regular professional DSLRs, the much larger and brighter optical viewfinder system itself most have cost a fortune. By the way, the KAF-50100 costs 3500$ if you order it in large numbers. The KAF-37500 is a Leica-specific design and therefore not cheap, either.
Of course large production numbers make it easier to spread R&D-efforts but you'll also have to pay for extremely expensive structures within these global-players. There is a reason why many highly specialized markets are ruled by small specialists - not gigantic global players.
I won't comment on any wild high-ISO-speculations until the first real shots are out with final firmware.
@lisa_r
There is no fringing or any other optical defect visible in the focused area - everything else is bokeh, although it doesn't look nice in this particular example.
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@lisa_r
There is no fringing or any other optical defect visible in the focused area - everything else is bokeh, although it doesn't look nice in this particular example.
Purple bokeh, eh?
Peep this:
purple fringing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_fringing)
Again, it's not shocking, but it's not superior to the purple fringing seen on my Canon 50mm lens either. Just saying, I am not seeing Leica's optical superiority just yet...need more samples...
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Purple bokeh, eh?
Peep this:
purple fringing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_fringing)
Again, it's not shocking, but it's not superior to the purple fringing seen on my Canon 50mm lens either. Just saying, I am not seeing Leica's optical superiority just yet...need more samples...
anyone in-the-know knows that Leica's rendering of the purple fringing is "clearly" superior to any other lens maker,
once viewed on a properly calibrated monitor and/or printed on imported extra virgin fiber pearlescent paper, of course.
it is not nearly as harsh ... so bokey-like. and the tonal depth and gradation is just superb. what's not to like?
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anyone in-the-know knows that Leica's rendering of the purple fringing is "clearly" superior to any other lens maker,
once viewed on a properly calibrated monitor and/or printed on imported extra virgin fiber pearlescent paper, of course.
it is not nearly as harsh ... so bokey-like. and the tonal depth and gradation is just superb. what's not to like?
Can you pass me some of that kool-aid and a pair of those amber tinted glasses.
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Can you pass me some of that kool-aid and a pair of those amber tinted glasses.
Looks like Sarah is not the only one going rogue.
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Can you pass me some of that kool-aid and a pair of those amber tinted glasses.
he/she was ironic....
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I think it looks like an awesome camera.
If it had 3 Tilt Shift lenses readily available,I certainly would consider one.
Best,
Willem.
Bingo!
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Bcooter, you just made my whole fucking week!! haven't laughed this hard since Sarah Palin saw Kamchatka...
- N.
Sad to read this lenguage here. (Let it out in your bathroom)
I guess sarah didn't see it, as the jerk, sit for 20 years and didn't know anything, as he don't know now. FAT LIAR
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I'm sorry, a 'review' by a camera dealer is not a review -- it's an overview of the camera, designed, with it's best foot fwd, to secure orders for same.
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Two Russian oligarchs meet up for quiet drink. One of them sees that the other is wearing a pair of ostentatious reptile skin shoes (of course he doesn't know that they are "ostentatious"...)
"Nice shoes Sergei, how much you pay?" says Boris.
"I not remember exactly" says Sergei "but less than $4000."
"You crazy" replies Boris "I know where you can get for $7000".
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I'm sorry, a 'review' by a camera dealer is not a review -- it's an overview of the camera, designed, with it's best foot fwd, to secure orders for same.
After spending a few hours with the new Leica S2 today I can honestly say I am impressed. Leica seemed to do the job I expected them to do as far as construction quality and optical quality. The camera handles like a heavy 5D with what seems like the image quality of any of the best MF cameras, (judging by some quick views of the files).
For someone like me who has not moved into MF yet, this camera seems to be the perfect answer. It's a system that is as simple and rugged as a Canon 1Ds with vastly superior image quality. Leica seems to have really got it right and I'm very surprised at how much I want one :-)
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After spending a few hours with the new Leica S2 today I can honestly say I am impressed. Leica seemed to do the job I expected them to do as far as construction quality and optical quality. The camera handles like a heavy 5D with what seems like the image quality of any of the best MF cameras, (judging by some quick views of the files).
For someone like me who has not moved into MF yet, this camera seems to be the perfect answer. It's a system that is as simple and rugged as a Canon 1Ds with vastly superior image quality. Leica seems to have really got it right and I'm very surprised at how much I want one :-)
If the perfect answer is $23,000 and $7,000 per lens you might want to find a different question.
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Two Russian oligarchs
(http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00wresh5.jpg)
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If the perfect answer is $23,000 and $7,000 per lens you might want to find a different question.
Why? When it was announced I was very skeptical and a bit miffed that Leica abandoned the R system. But compared with the average MF system, I don't see the S2 being much different as far as price. I do think, however, until it's in our hands for a few weeks at least, we can't be sure of bugs or problems. But from one quick afternoon with the camera I can truly say I am very excited and impressed with it. For my needs, seems like the perfect MF camera.
I am also concurrently shooting HD video work and looking into new HD digital movie cameras from Sony, RED and ARRI. Compared with high end 35mm movie camera glass, the Leica S2 lenses are very reasonably priced. It's all relative I guess.
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(http://pics.livejournal.com/drugoi/pic/00wresh5.jpg)
great picture. well, i did recognize abramovich, but who is the other one?
p
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we are interested in how the camera renders
transition zones and low light shooting. your review will surely make an interesting read.
looking forward, peter
The S2 is not a reportage camera. Low light performance? I think it is a camera for light-controlled conditions, in studio or outside.
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As I pointed out in another thread (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=39197), this purple fringing from the Leica 70mm lens does not look superior to me. Same issues as any other (and far cheaper) fast lens.
Re:
http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p775893693/h3b47e28e#h354bc47e (http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p775893693/h3b47e28e#h354bc47e)
Now I am quoting myself here:
"two months ago people were looking at the Leica charts and graphs and salivating. Now, as I suspected, these mad money lenses have not, in fact, changed the laws of physics ;-) Good luck telling the difference between these and a $200 Mamiya 80mm lens in print ;-)"
The so-called purple fringing isn't necessarily related to chromatic aberrations. I think in many cases the cause behind the problem has to do with the angle of incidence of the light on the sensor filters and microlenses.
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The so-called purple fringing isn't necessarily related to chromatic aberrations. I think in many cases the cause behind the problem has to do with the angle of incidence of the light on the sensor filters and microlenses.
Which of course are design parameters.
Edmund
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The so-called purple fringing isn't necessarily related to chromatic aberrations. I think in many cases the cause behind the problem has to do with the angle of incidence of the light on the sensor filters and microlenses.
Interesting, as the S2 has microlenses while most DMF does not. We might be viewing these S2 images in more detail (at higher angular resolution of the subject) than any other images with the same FOV taken through microlenses. Is this a possible reason for avoiding microlenses on cameras oriented to optimal image quality when enough light is available, and thus intended primarily for use at low ISO speeds? (Which I see as the inevitable future niche for formats larger than 24x36mm).