Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Capture One Q&A => Topic started by: AlbertK on November 01, 2009, 08:44:15 am
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How useful is Capture One for black and white conversions? I want to start doing black and white work and have experimented a little with converting my images in Capture One but I am not yet happy with the results I get. That is no doubt lack of experience of course, but maybe Capture One isn't the right tool. Any opinions on the usefulness of Capture One for B&W conversion?
I have been googling but couldn't really find a tutorial on B&W conversions with Capture One. Does anyone know a good tutorial?
My photography is for my own fun and my budget is limited so I try work as much as possible with the tools I already have. I am not (yet) on Capture One 5.
Thanks for any information.
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Try the pre-cooked C1 "styles" for B&W in the styles dropdown list. I find them quite good a lot of the time. Some are profiles, others are groups of adjustment settings, so you can make a series of color adjustments first that can affect how the applied B&W style will render.
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Thanks for any information.
take a look @ SilkyPix
http://www.isl.co.jp/SILKYPIX/japanese/special/arttaste/ (http://www.isl.co.jp/SILKYPIX/japanese/special/arttaste/) - scroll down to see example of customized "tastes"
PS1: use http://translate.google.com (http://translate.google.com)
PS2: trial version is available there http://www.shortcutinc.com/cms/index.php?id=4 (http://www.shortcutinc.com/cms/index.php?id=4) or there http://www.silkypixuk.com/index.php/Silkypix/ (http://www.silkypixuk.com/index.php/Silkypix/)
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Try the pre-cooked C1 "styles" for B&W in the styles dropdown list. I find them quite good a lot of the time. Some are profiles, others are groups of adjustment settings, so you can make a series of color adjustments first that can affect how the applied B&W style will render.
Hi Jack; I agree with this. The Panchromatic style is particularly pleasing. But I haven't found in C1 Pro 5 yet whether one can then apply toning and split-toning to it. Unfortunately, none of this appears to be documented in the rather sub-optimal User Guide accompanying the program. I'm new to C1 and my initial impressions are that it is a very capable and powerful program, but someone needs to write a good, comprehensive book on how to use it - something comparable to Martin Evening's first-class book on Lightroom 2.
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someone needs to write a good, comprehensive book on how to use it
I agree, but it aint gonna be me -- no big love in writing a photo how-to book
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Of course - that comment wasn't directed at any one person in particular. I was just planting a seed in case a flower wants to grow somewhere!
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I am currently in dialogue with Phase One support about why Adobe RGB output files from C1 using a B+W profile are not completely neutral. When sampled with the colour picker using point samples there can be up to three points difference between the channels (although the preview image shows neutral values). This reduces but doesn't always disappear completely when the sample size is increased to 3 x 3 average. Has anyone else seen this? I do like the results but can't ascertain if Phase intend them to be completely neutral or not. Whether its a problem depends on what you want to do with them, I suppose.
Tony May
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I am currently in dialogue with Phase One support about why Adobe RGB output files from C1 using a B+W profile are not completely neutral. When sampled with the colour picker using point samples there can be up to three points difference between the channels (although the preview image shows neutral values). This reduces but doesn't always disappear completely when the sample size is increased to 3 x 3 average. Has anyone else seen this? I do like the results but can't ascertain if Phase intend them to be completely neutral or not. Whether its a problem depends on what you want to do with them, I suppose.
One thought... In your C1 preferences under Color, which rendering intent have you chosen? If Perceptual, try changing it to Relative Colorimetric. Next, go to View>Proof Profile and make sure your desired working space (in your case Adobe RGB) is checked, and not "Selected Recipe". I suspect if you do these two things it should correct the issue.
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I bought this set of black and white profiles for my phase back from JFI that seems to work with some images as a good starting point. I suppose you could also do some interesting things with the color editor and saturation turned down.
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As far as the digital toning that lightroom does I still haven't found it but you can create similar effects in 5.0+ by perturbing the color curves (or levels) after desaturation.
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Digital Outback published a very nice free B&W profile for C1 a few years ago. It should still work fine with v5.x.
Nill
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Here's the link (http://www.outbackphoto.com/artofraw/raw_08/essay.html) for the Digital Outback article and B&W profile for C1. (2003... dang!)
Nill
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Here's the link (http://www.outbackphoto.com/artofraw/raw_08/essay.html) for the Digital Outback article and B&W profile for C1. (2003... dang!)
Nill
May i ask...........
Using a Mac OS X 10.5.8. and C1 5.1. how do I go about loading this profile after unzipping it?
Thank You
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May i ask...........
Using a Mac OS X 10.5.8. and C1 5.1. how do I go about loading this profile after unzipping it?
Thank You
Old school. You load it in /Library/ColorSync/Profiles, then choose it in the Output recipe tab...
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Thanks Jack - most obliged
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...then choose it in the
input tab (i.e. "camera profile")
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input tab (i.e. "camera profile")
How in 5.1? Profiles you add to ColorSynch (user or system) do not always show up under the Camera Profile dropdown list under the "base characteristics" tab under "Other". Only the ones they include with the app package or ones you build in Color Editor seem to show there with any certainty. (Why we usually need a new release of C1 for added support of new cameras.)
I am pretty sure the profile Vulcan is referring to has to be loaded and chosen in the icc profile dropdown under the output recipe tab... An advantage of that method is that you can actually alter the look by changing color temp, sat and color editor settings. You'll note that C1 includes a set of output grayscale profiles you can load there too (this is in addition to the monochrome input profiles they also include).
Cheers,
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Hi Jack,
first, C1 Color Editor stores custom made icc profiles in the directory: ~/library/color sync/profiles. So in the users library, not in the systems library.
The profiles show up under camera profiles-> other.
Or, if you rename the profiles according to Phase One's naming convention they show up under camera profile-> effects.
"C1_BW9" is the BW profile of Outback Photo.
[attachment=21021:icc_other.jpg]
[attachment=21020:icc_effects.jpg]
[attachment=21022:icc_user...profiles.jpg]
Too, those profiles are table based and contain only 1 input table... so you cannot convert in those profiles. You can only assgin them as input profile.
Consequently none of the input profiles show up in the list of profiles in the output tab (and neither in the proof menu). If you want to preserve the input profile as profile you have to set the output to "embed camera profile".
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Okay, thanks --
I have used the C1 naming conventions with varied success --- works sometimes, but not all the time, and the profile in question won't show up in "Other" either.
Little more advanced so I don't usually even mention it, and have not tried it with the DOP profile so didn't go there earlier. If you want, you can try this: First rename the file with a camera specific name according to C1 convention, and then maybe use an easy to recognize extension like "dopBW" in place of the Camera- "generic" or "daylight" tag in the existing C1 profile. Next right-click on the app and click on "Show Package Contents." Now navigate to Contents/Resources/Profiles/Input and drop the profile there.
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I have used the C1 naming conventions with varied success --- works sometimes, but not all the time
maybe with too complex names or certain characters it won't work?
the profile in question won't show up in "Other" either.
after renaming the profile to its original name it does on my machine:
[attachment=21023:bw9.jpg]
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maybe with too complex names or certain characters it won't work?
after renaming the profile to its original name it does on my machine:
[attachment=21023:bw9.jpg]
No, the problem I experienced had to do with how or the tool used to generate the profile initially...
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No, the problem I experienced had to do with how or the tool used to generate the profile initially...
yes, possible. The preferred CMM or any other profile tag may be an issue...
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I have found Nik Silver Effects to be an incredibly powerful B/W conversion tool. It works as a plug-in to Aperture, LR, or Photoshop. It offers far more options and presets than anything available in C1.
With very few exceptions, all B/W work here was done in Silver Effects:
http://www.photoshelter.com/c/jamesbourret (http://www.photoshelter.com/c/jamesbourret)
Best of luck with whatever you choose.
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I have found Nik Silver Effects to be an incredibly powerful B/W conversion tool. It works as a plug-in to Aperture, LR, or Photoshop. It offers far more options and presets than anything available in C1.
With very few exceptions, all B/W work here was done in Silver Effects:
http://www.photoshelter.com/c/jamesbourret (http://www.photoshelter.com/c/jamesbourret)
Best of luck with whatever you choose.
I agree about Silver Efex Pro. I used to do all my B&W conversions in Lightroom and thought that the results were good, until I discovered Silver Efex. I use it as a Photoshop plug-in. Have never tried B&W in Capture One, but I would be surprised if it is as good, as it seems to be a bit of an afterthought.
Rob
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Capture One is one of the most powerful black and white convertor there is. It has extremely powerful curves, vignette, glow (i.e. IR Aura), and color-to-bw profile controls. The ability to very precisely define the "film-response" (e.g. popping red skin tones with glow but sinking greens into shadow) is as powerful as there is anywhere. It can also fit absolutely seamlessly into a heavy workflow including DURING tethered or untethered shoots. However, the INTERFACE for using it (the color editor) is VERY slow to work to develop a "look" compared to (for example) photoshop's black and white click-and-slide tool.
The point is if you want to use C1 as a BW convertor you can do so with extremely good and powerful results - but it will take you longer to figure out how to do that. Once you've established your own B+W looks you can preview and apply them VERY quickly to one raw or a thousand raws.
To that end we are posting a set of styles later this week that include some presets to help you understand how to use the very powerful black and white conversion in Capture One.
Doug Peterson ()
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for future finders of this thread...
http://www.captureintegration.com/2010/04/...ure-one-styles/ (http://www.captureintegration.com/2010/04/13/capture-one-styles/)
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Thanks Doug!
Nill