Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Computers & Peripherals => Topic started by: PeterAit on October 22, 2009, 09:33:47 am
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My photo computer is currently running Vista Home Premium 64 bit and everything is working just fine. I can get a free Win 7 upgrade from Dell, but I am wondering if I should bother installing it. I know there will, as always, be some hassles involved in the upgrade. What benefits will I get from upgrading? Given that everything is running smoothly, I wonder if the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach might be wise.
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you can always try it with virtualbox first.... the friends i have who have been using it for the past few months always preferred it to vista. having said that, i see no need for me to upgrade any time soon
check this for more info:
http://gizmodo.com/5383982/how-to-virtualize-any-os-for-free (http://gizmodo.com/5383982/how-to-virtualize-any-os-for-free)
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you can always try it with virtualbox first.... the friends i have who have been using it for the past few months always preferred it to vista. having said that, i see no need for me to upgrade any time soon
check this for more info:
http://gizmodo.com/5383982/how-to-virtualize-any-os-for-free (http://gizmodo.com/5383982/how-to-virtualize-any-os-for-free)
And if you are working on a nice solid XP box like I am, you'll have to do a full reinstall of all your apps...only Vista can be upgraded with apps in place.
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From what I have read online from many users, the benifits are; more snappy response, less memory needs, and less cluttered OS. much more support for other periferrals for future changes to your system.
I have signed "special" Win 7 Ultimate sitting on my desk, along with the hardware, waiting for the new computers case to arrive so I can finish this install of a new system... while I have a Win7 Pro upgrade from XPpro in UPS route now for the upgrade of another system. So I cannot speak about usability.
BUT as someone metioned about a fresh install....When ever you are moving to a new OS, it is usually best to do it from a clean install. There are a bunch of files that often get orphaned over time, LBA files, install files, and lots of stuff that can use a cleaning. Besides over time your system slowly gets bogged down, and a clean start is often a good way about it. As your system matures with your usage, you can take advantage and arrange things if you think you need to. I HATE doing it, as I have all these tweaks and special setting for brushes, for plugins, for pallets, screen modes in Photoshop, A number automation modes for ACDSee Pro3, for a number of apps. There is likely a good way to transfer these over after a clean install, Would be nice to know where they are. Its time consuming, but I think it is worth half the day...or whole day :-) I have a few systems, and ALWAYS have a secondary main system as work doesn't stop, just because you need a new system. good luck with it.
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I am going to upgrade 6 machines in the next couple of weeks. Two are Vista machines, but they are running other things now (VMWare Virtualizition and Windows Home Server.)
I just pulled the original drives that came with them and put in a new 320GB. That is plenty for an OS drive with applications (though I am moving applications to a 2nd 320GB with Windows 7.)
If you have either Seagate or Westeren Digital drives, you can get a free copy of Acronis backup/cloning software at their web site. I make a clone copy of the drive to one of about 15 old 120-200 GB IDE drives I have around (via a USB enclosure.) Then I pull the main SATA OS drive, label it, set it aside and start with a clean 320GB for a new install.
If you are just "playing" and going back to the base OS after a while, just leave the extra drive in the machine, but pull the power and data cables.
I downloaded the Windows 7 RC a few months ago and was very happy with it. I need it for a few things, like my digital tuner card for a media PC. Otherwise I am just ready to upgrade everything capable from XP, and leave the 3-4 machines that are too old behind (I bought two desktops - an i7 and a quad - and two laptops, a netbook and a Core 2 Duo - in the past 3 months to get ready. )
Cheers! Have fun!
Best,
Michael
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Cheers! Have fun!
Best,
Michael
Sounds like you have your hands full!
If you are upgrading any drives I would take a look at the SSD from Patriot Torqx.
I just bought a few of them. I have a new build and a couple of upgrades. I read a few things and it is a good idea to how a backup of your OS on a drive ready to swap back over the content in case it wipes out. I thought it would make a good scratch disk, but I read here or elsewhere that 2 10K/150GB Raptors are faster than 2 SSD Torqx 64gb in Raid 0, ?
I am a bit out of touch when testing this stuff myself these days, But for the HDD things you are saying, take a look. They even have some setup in Raid out of the box and a re very fast, but way too pricey ($1400).
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My photo computer is currently running Vista Home Premium 64 bit and everything is working just fine. I can get a free Win 7 upgrade from Dell, but I am wondering if I should bother installing it. I know there will, as always, be some hassles involved in the upgrade. What benefits will I get from upgrading? Given that everything is running smoothly, I wonder if the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach might be wise.
Since you are at 64-bit with signed drivers, you should have no issues upgrading. Run the upgrade advisor on the Win7 media first (with everything connected).
Win 7 is flat out better - easier to use, easier to configure, faster....
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Thanks Phil! Unfortunately I had to cut off the buying early this week before I got to high-performance stuff. Thje home theater PC with a NAS, 8 TB of storage, a digital TV tuner, etc. all took their toll!
I just installed a copy from the Windows 7 Family Pack - $150 package with 3 upgrades to Home Premium - on a 4 year old PC. I installed 64 bit on a Pentium D with 4 gig of ram and 2 new Sata drives - a 320 and a 1 TB.
It was a clean install, as this was an XP machine. Very, very easy install! It found the drivers for all of my devices automatically - not one was flagged in device manager. When I reinstalled XP on the same machine I had to go to Dell and download and install every driver separately, including the base Intel chipset driver.
Performance seems good even at 64 bit on this older machine. I am going to put a TV tuner in this one. The Media Center is supposed to be great compared to previous versions. It is replacing 3rd part apps for many people - Sage TV, Myth TV, etc.
Very happy.
Best,
Michael
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Trust me..
Sorry, can’t resist:
http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/ (http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/)
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Trust me..
Sorry, can’t resist:
http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/ (http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/)
It requires to download QT. Who's got time for that? :-)
I am about 75% done with my new system.
i7 860 @3.4
8GB Ram (will switch to 4sticks of 4GB when available
Torqx SSD 128gb for OS
Torqx SSD 64GB for SWAP. I have another one in the package and still need to research if these are better for swap or 2x Raptor 150GB drives in Raid0?
(I will have a Raptor 150GB in the box with autoback to it for the OS if the SSD dumps.
I have a fanless Vid card,
LianLi short tower all aluminum
still short of installing Wi7ultimate and all the editing apps
This is the lightest system and quietest system I have EVER put together. Started my computing life with an Apple 2e, and since then I have put dozens together for myself, and maybe another 40+ for clients when I was in IT.
All this under $2K
Besides the $8K+ Apple, what comes close? at under $2K with further expansion?
Don't get me wrong, my G5 that I turn on every other week to look at a Quark file still looks beautiful, but this new box is very steath and sharp looking.
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Thanks Phil! Unfortunately I had to cut off the buying early this week before I got to high-performance stuff. Thje home theater PC with a NAS, 8 TB of storage, a digital TV tuner, etc. all took their toll!
Very happy.
Best,
Michael
I hear you very clearly. I too just got a external ATi HDTV usb 650 tuner just to see the news on one of the systems next to me while working. It works if I dont have my Remote desktop watching other location survelence, or using a Rip software for print. someplace there is a resource that is not beafy enough. could be ram or video card. either case I have another system with the internal older version and it works very nicely.
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Quick update....
It took 14min to get windows installed and running. From the Mobo install to running w7, I did not have 1 hicup. Very sweet indeed!
with fanless vid, ssd, and quiet fans, I hardly notice it is on....never had that before.
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For a free upgrade sure go for it.
I don't find Win 7 as great as some folks do, more like a Vista service pack, some nice tweaks and a few nice extras. Hard to suggest paying customers on vista should bother. XP users, probably will find it almost as overweight as vista was, whilst the footprint is smaller than Vista, it's far from tiny!
Since I started using Linux mint, it's got just as much candy as Win 7 (In fact it's a more logical OS layout wise) it runs far faster than Win 7, and has the benefit of running on lower spec pc's well too. ;-)
IMO Win 7 is less objectionable than vista, but it's badly over hyped, it's no killer OS.
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Windows 7 will change everything. It will be interesting to see how much by October 2010.
I am a big fan of Macs and Linux - as these two platforms created the push for Microsoft. The massive installed Windows base plus the existance of a great OS is all the market needs to dominate everybody - yet again.
Hers's hoping development of other Operating Systems continue. We all benefit from real competition. Microsoft dominating, at over 90% of the market, has never helped the average computer user.
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I have vista 64 and just bought the upgrade to windows 7. Did the check on line, no problems reported and everything was running fine.
Upgrade failed after one hour and system crashed. Recovery using Acronis, tried again and same result. Now I have a piece of useless software that I can not return and paid a premium for, and the expense and time to restore everything.
Thanks microsoft. Solution, do a clean install.
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I have another system with the internal older version and it works very nicely.
I have an older internal Hauppauge card running in a $250 Celeron box with 2GB, never a hiccup. With the onboard encoder and decoder it runs at about 12% CPU use.
I also just bought an ATI USB version - the Digital CableCard version. I hope it is not too CPU bound because of the USB?
We just moved to the cable-top boxes with Comcast. At thre same time Windows 7 provides built in support for the proprietary CableCard boxes for the first time. Hope it all comes together OK.
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http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/ (http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/)
Joke, right?
Lets see. I bought an i7 desktop with 6GB DDR3 and another Quad Core with 12 GB DDR3 for $1,350. About 1/2 of a Mac desktop. Add in a Core 2 Duo laptop with 4GB and 2 batteries, a Celeron NAS with 2GB and 2 TB to start, and a netbook with an Atom and 2GB. 5 boxes total, we are up to about $2,300. All bluetooth, wireless N, etc.
Then add in another $2,300 for an LCD TV, 2 blueray players, 4x23in HD LCD TV's/monitors, a Hava Titanium Wifi (like a slingbox), the ATI tuner, and 3x Netgear Gigabit Wireless N routers, etc.
My wife has a Macbook Pro unibody laptop that I support. I am happier with my Windows and Linux boxes. Also using Apples since a IIE, but I am mostly just frustrated by them.
Cheers,
Michael
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FWIW, I run both systems, MacBook Pro with Snow leopard for tethering, Vista 64 QuadCore for image processing in my business and Mac Pros where I teach. I own a Windows 7 upgrade and am waiting for all the drivers and quirks to shake out before installing. BUT aside from cost considerations (PCs being MUCH cheaper) my experience over the years is that macs are a much more stable and reliable platform. I found the Apple video that Andrew linked to was absolutely bang on.........
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I've been running the preview of W7 Ultimate on 4 computers since early summer, including a couple of laptops, one newish powerful tower at 64 bit, and a netbook. It has been perfectly stable and reliable on all of them. The interface tweaks are excelllent, but I suspect many people won't know they're even there without being shown. For example, the ability to drag one explorer window to the left of the screen and one to the right, which sizes both of them to 1/2 the monitor. Very nice.
Compared to the macs I'm running on Leopard and Snow Leopard, I'm seeing about the same reliability and snappiness, and I actually prefer manuevering around on the W7 machines now. I also prefer the way you pin items to the taskbar in W7 to the dock on the Macs.
Still getting used to the new consolidated library structure in W7, but I see that being useful in the future. Supposedly, the new touchscreen abilities are pretty great. I'll be installing W7 on one of my mother's touchscreen HPs pretty soon, so I'm looking forward to checking that out.
I don't miss XP or Vista at all.
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My photo computer is currently running Vista Home Premium 64 bit and everything is working just fine.. What benefits will I get from upgrading? I wonder if the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach might be wise.
For someone on Vista 64bit, I dont know. I never ran or played with Vista, so for XP users, it is a leap of a difference.
I believe in the aint broke dont fix, but I hardly follow it. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes you wish you hadn't.
I did notice when I connected my 8TB jbod tower using 2 eSATA's, it froze a couple times. I disconnected and then reboot everything was fine, then redid the tower, and all looks good so far. Right now, I am taking baby steps in doing the installs and all the tweaks. Then a nice clean backup to have a solid starting point...etc
If you have lots of files, I would turn INDEXING OFF. slows down, and uses space. unless you have the space and find it usefull
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Trust me..
Sorry, can’t resist:
http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/ (http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/)
hehe....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hnOCUkbix0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hnOCUkbix0)
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Windows 7 will change everything. It will be interesting to see how much by October 2010.
I am a big fan of Macs and Linux - as these two platforms created the push for Microsoft. The massive installed Windows base plus the existance of a great OS is all the market needs to dominate everybody - yet again.
Hers's hoping development of other Operating Systems continue. We all benefit from real competition. Microsoft dominating, at over 90% of the market, has never helped the average computer user.
The problem with Windows, is the same as it always was. The registry..
Over time windows slows down, the situation gets even more obvious for users with a large number of programs installed (even worse heavy demo users etc, who do lots of installs). This is one reason some folks "clean install" every so often, whatever windows OS they run.
Having done a few Win 7 upgrades from Vista, I could not really say the computers were much faster, it's a little less of a burden on memory and HDD, but not much. Clean install obviously better, but clean install your Vista again, and that seems pretty fast too, every windows is! No software or bloated out registry etc.
I pretty much halved the boot up time of XP pro, simply be doing a clean install the other day.
Linux avoids this problem, also by not using NTFS, fragmentation isn't an issue either. MS might still dominate, but the tide can turn..if I can boot up loads of candy all over the show using less than half the memory of Win 7 using Mint..well that tells me one OS if a lot more efficient than the other. And that's the real problem with MS, they really need to look at efficiency, not rely on improved hardware to carry the can for them.
The reason XP is still popular, is that it's in modern terms a pretty lightweight OS, small footprint, and low memory use. I would not suggest users of less capable machines go near Win 7....XP will simply run better for them. I see Win 7 as being more useful for new pc's, less so for upgraders.
With Vista MS tried to do too much, and the OS was a burden on pc's..1Gb was not really good enough, it was 2Gb or don't bother. At the time of Vista's release, the system requirements were too high. A few years down the road 2gb pc's are par for the course, standard. MS did tweak some stuff, but Win 7 will do better, simply because the hardware is better, not because it's a hugely re-vamped ultra lean efficient OS. Not knocking it now, some nice bits there..but hmmm ,wake me up when they make the control panel "logical" and easy to use! lol
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Windows 7 64 ROCKS!!!! This is the best OS ever. I tested it against vista 64, no comparison. So many great features you have to see to appreciate.
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I see Win 7 as being more useful for new pc's, less so for upgraders.
There are many levels and uses of "computers." My Intel SS4200 NAS, for example, runs a Celeron and 512meg of RAM standard. It uses Linux 2.6, which comes loaded on a 512 Meg flash disk to boot, very small footprint. Rock solid and fast file serving with a Raid 10. Fantastic machine for what it does - serve up data.
The Pentium D with 4GB of Ram that I loaded with Windows 7 64 is runing **great** as a media machine. So far I have mostly been watching Netflix within Media Center via Wireless N, with a $35 video card and a $150 HD monitor. Runs fast, smooth, stable, beautiful.
That is a 4 year old machine. I would think any modern Intel CPU would be more powerful. 4GB of DDR2 is about $40. So Windows 7, even 64 bit, should run fairly well on a $300 new Dell Vostro or equivilent. Pretty decent match of OS capability and available hardware, finally.
Ine Intel NAS has gotten me hacking different boxes, loading all the different OS's that I can just to play and learn. Free VMWare, Linux, Hyper-V server from Microsoft, the 180 day trial of Windows Server 2008, etc.
I am usually more balanced on my viewpoint on Macs than previously here - just stirring things up a bit I guess. But my biggest "complaint" about the Mac OS is that it only runs on a really high-end and high-priced box. So it represents one niche of "computers."
But if you go back 30 years, the Vax 11/780 with .5 MIP ran 30 users on terminals under Unix. It was pretty similar to what is running on the NAS now, except that the NAS is about 3,000 times as powerful as that mulituser machine! The NAS really is a work of art - and rock solid stable in it's own right. My previous multi-media machine, a Celeron with 2GB, a $250 box new years ago, ran as my main tv recorder/media server, stuffed full of HDD's, for 4 years without a hiccup and without me touching it, except for an occassional full disk.
VAX-11/780 - .5 MIPS - 1977
Intel Pentium III - 1,354 MIPS - 1999
Intel Core i7 Extreme 965EE - 76,383 MIPS - 2008
Sort of like going back to making platinum prints from an 8x10. It is all good and interesting in it's own right.
Cheers,
Michael
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Well you have to remember most home users wouldn't even know what RAM is, let alone take off the side cover to upgrade it!
Honestly, most folks are too scared to, for fear of busting things.
Sure you can beef up a PC with more ram, but my point remains, modern MS OS= Fairly bloated. like I said, thrown more power at it, and problem solved (well at least in part), myself I get more impressed when you can do more with less. I had hoped this talk of an ultra slim downed OS would turn up this time, but it was not meant to be.
I've never really liked the layout and GUI since vista, win 7 is better, but it's not a major overhaul. Maybe I expected too much.
I hope MS will be more radical next time around, but I suspect they learnt a lesson with Vista..don't do too much too soon, it kinda messed up for MS on that one.
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I'll get a new PC next year and will get Win 7 at that time.
I haven't seen any comments regarding the Epson 4000 drivers and Windows 7 - any experience?
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The problem with Windows, is the same as it always was. The registry..
...
Linux avoids this problem, also by not using NTFS, fragmentation isn't an issue either.
I would love to use Linux rather than Windows as I think it is a much better platform. Everything from file systems to memory management is just done better in Linux. But the main problem of lack of software, particularly from Adobe is what is keeping Linux from being a reasonable solution for photography work.
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BUT aside from cost considerations (PCs being MUCH cheaper) my experience over the years is that macs are a much more stable and reliable platform.
I can understand this approach, if you omit the fact that PC platforms are open to many MFR's, which are usually what goes wrong with PCs when you add or upgrade differnt components... compatibility.
if you are upgrading a MAC or adding something, you have a couple options and that is it, also helped "regulate" this is the OS, being limited to a degree(this was the case unless you ran Win for Mac or now Parallels). These things do make a MAC more stable in a apples to orange analogy. In a sense that is good for the masses. I cant get around the short comings of how my drives and software is structured on the MAC/gui, and that is the heart of the system for me to see where things are. I use ACDSee3pro as a image organizer/"dam" and goto app for starting and ending a project. (they improved a great deal with this 3 Pro release). Otherwise as long as I get the work done fast, I could care less what is running it. Do I like the way the MAC looks, YES!, and thats why I have a G5 that gets used once in a blue moon for layout app, sometimes capture. there are 8 systems,7 PC's. Now 3 with Win7.
If you know your way around the Windows Explorer, and are comfortable with it, and you can unistall and update a driver or 2, I can't see someone getting the MAC ...perhaps unless you have clients to please, or like to get the "artist" affirmation, because some AD doesnt know anything other then a MAC for design(sad and pitiful really). I have put together 90% of my systems with my chosen components. But many people dont care, and dont want to know...more power to you....get something prebuilt with a warranty...done.
For a studio world, a one system approach gets stretched right out the front desk. You need accounting, crm, you need FTp's to regularly manage , you need Data storage Sas, or SATA port multipliers, you need backup solutions automated for your TB's of off system data, you need an email machine that is backed up with client lists, #'s, a Print server, an editing station, a concept design station perhaps for prepress, a capture system, calibration, spectro profiler, dual 30" screens, a prepress screen, a 30" screen for captures for 100% size detail focus crop... and things add up. YOU WILL NEED TO UPGRADE or buy a new system at somepoint....You might have 3 or 5 +people working, or maybe it is a solo gig, but know that 1 machine cannot do it all correctly....(any platform will start bloating when you have x-GB of emails etc). and because you dont put all the eggs in one basket as Any and all systems can fail in a HDD(as over the years, that is all thats really ever fialed for me.
If you are not familiar with a PC and the way it "thinks", get a MAC, and be happy. In all honesty, not wanting to know, is bliss! really! If you know your way around a PC, yuou should have known that a CLEAN install is going to make all things work better as you installed a # of apps you never use, and with fresh install things will run faster/smoother....regardless if WIn7 could or could not upgrade. Win7 shipped with a sheet of paper warning for users that they will need to install a fresh clean copy. no upgrade from XP. Even shipped with a compatibilty tool. Then you have 32bit users switching to 64bit...fresh install. ......oooh, enough pc/mac talk :-)
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I loathe Vista. Can we be anything but cynical when we see Microsoft bringing out W7 which is really a service pack for Vista, and charging £100 a pop for the standard flavour?
Windows 7 will change everything. It will be interesting to see how much by October 2010.
I am a big fan of Macs and Linux - as these two platforms created the push for Microsoft. The massive installed Windows base plus the existance of a great OS is all the market needs to dominate everybody - yet again.
Hers's hoping development of other Operating Systems continue. We all benefit from real competition. Microsoft dominating, at over 90% of the market, has never helped the average computer user.
Given the very high price of Macs, I don't see them ever taking off big time. And Linux is too niche: very few mainstreams apps support it. For all that people knock Microsoft, much of their software is better than most alternatives.
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quote: "For someone on Vista 64bit, I dont know. I never ran or played with Vista, so for XP users, it is a leap of a difference.
I believe in the aint broke dont fix, but I hardly follow it. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes you wish you hadn't."
I've been using Windows 7 64 bit since spring when the RC free trial started. I put this computer together and immediately installed Win 7. Before that I was using OSX. I had been using XP 64 bit before moving to the iMac but stayed away from Vista since it was generally not well received and XP was stable as a rock. Windows 7 is quite a change from XP but I often wonder if the change was necessary. Migrating back from the Mac was a pain requiring reinstallation of everything even though I had a full backup, but of course Win 7 couldn't read the backup so I had to hunt down everything including data files that were copied from the XP hard drive and the firewire drive from the Mac. I still have the 20" iMac but no longer use it. It is several years old and because of the all-in-one form factor couldn't be upgraded except with slow USB drives and took only 3GB of memory. The PC I put together cost less than a new 20" iMac and has a i7 processor, 6GB of memory and 2 1/2 TB of HD space. I have yet to experience any need for more speed. OSX is a superior operating system but the hardware is so closed that it makes the Mac system unappealing to me. I could not afford a Mac Pro so I went back to Windows and have not regretted it.