Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: pixjohn on October 17, 2009, 03:23:54 am
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1) The gain adjuster does not work correctly, it will not allow you to adjust lens falloff 100% tethered? The software choose its own %% and will not work beyond that point.
2) Does anyone have any clue what is going to happen with LC 11? Will it ever work with the Snow operating system?
3) people talk about Leaf backs working with C1 Pro in the future, will that just be current backs or all the backs. The software on the Leaf Imaging site states LC11 works with the Aptus 75 backs, but when I connect the back it tells me my back is not a leaf back and not supported? If it will work in C1
pro will we have to waits months or years?
Someone must have a clue by now. How long do we have to wait to find out what is happening? The corporate line sounds like this, "no comment".
.
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Snow Leopard was mentioned in this post, expected to be 3-4 weeks from Sept 30.
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=38037 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=38037)
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1) The gain adjuster does not work correctly, it will not allow you to adjust lens falloff 100% tethered? The software choose its own %% and will not work beyond that point.
2) Does anyone have any clue what is going to happen with LC 11? Will it ever work with the Snow operating system?
3) people talk about Leaf backs working with C1 Pro in the future, will that just be current backs or all the backs. The software on the Leaf Imaging site states LC11 works with the Aptus 75 backs, but when I connect the back it tells me my back is not a leaf back and not supported? If it will work in C1
pro will we have to waits months or years?
Someone must have a clue by now. How long do we have to wait to find out what is happening? The corporate line sounds like this, "no comment".
.
Hello John,
Your Leaf dealer should have all the answers for you by now. If you do not have a dealer you can send an email to the () and you will be put in contact with someone that can help you.
1) Not sure I understand. If you create a custom lens calibration file (with any % of falloff correction) and load it to the back using the wizard then that’s what it will use to calibrate all your images until you load another one or revert to the factory file...unless there’s a bug there that we’re not aware of. If that's the case, again you should report this to your dealer.
2) An SL compatible version is imminent. 2 weeks although it might slip a few days.
3) Regarding C1: new Leaf Imaging backs (Aptus-II and refurb Aptus carrying “LI” serial numbers) will come with both LC11 and C1 5 (DB, not Pro) in the box.
LC11 from 11.2.8 and up is developed and tested to work with Leaf Imaging (see above) backs. This does not mean it does not work with older backs, hence the warning message, which will be “softened” in 11.2.9.
To gain future compatibility with LC and C1, users of old Aptus/ Aptus-S and Aptus-II backs can purchase a warranty package , which includes a “service upgrade” that makes the back compatible with future Leaf and Phase One software. Contact your dealer for further info and pricing.
Yair
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To gain future compatibility with LC and C1, users of old Aptus/ Aptus-S and Aptus-II backs can purchase a warranty package , which includes a “service upgrade” that makes the back compatible with future Leaf and Phase One software. Contact your dealer for further info and pricing.
Yair
What get's upgraded in this case? What further functionality?
jim
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To gain future compatibility with LC and C1, users of old Aptus/ Aptus-S and Aptus-II backs can purchase a warranty package , which includes a “service upgrade” that makes the back compatible with future Leaf and Phase One software. Contact your dealer for further info and pricing.
Yair
Yair,
Is this the direction the market is going . . . If you want to keep your software up to date the next time Apple releases a new version, probably called Fire Coyote, will Leaf owners have to pony up a monthly payment to get the software to work?
I know specialty camera makers have gone through a tough time, but how'd you like to have just bought an "old" Aptus 10 minutes before you guys moved over to Phase, only to find out that to get your software to work with your new Mac you've gotta pay more money?
Somewhere in here is a lesson to be learned but I do know that whether the company is called Leaf Digital Limited Assets, or Leaf Imaging a Creo/Kodak company, to a customer it's just Leaf.
BC
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...but how'd you like to have just bought an "old" Aptus 10 minutes before you guys moved over to Phase, only to find out that to get your software to work with your new Mac you've gotta pay more money?
When the alternative was the company went under entirely and no future support of any kind would be provided...
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Are "LI" refurbed "old" Aptus backs currently available?
What is the current Leaf website/contact info for USA?
Yes
Contact for Leaf Imaging US in Oregon (http://www.leaf-photography.com/falu_or.asp)
BR
Yair
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Yair,
Is this the direction the market is going . . . If you want to keep your software up to date the next time Apple releases a new version, probably called Fire Coyote, will Leaf owners have to pony up a monthly payment to get the software to work?
I know specialty camera makers have gone through a tough time, but how'd you like to have just bought an "old" Aptus 10 minutes before you guys moved over to Phase, only to find out that to get your software to work with your new Mac you've gotta pay more money?
Somewhere in here is a lesson to be learned but I do know that whether the company is called Leaf Digital Limited Assets, or Leaf Imaging a Creo/Kodak company, to a customer it's just Leaf.
BC
You do not have to pay for the software, you've never had to. Like Doug said one of the alternatives was not to have any future support whatsoever.
And so it happens that the new company will still offer future support for the old company's product, but for a price.
Yair
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What get's upgraded in this case? What further functionality?
jim
When you buy the extended warranty/ service package the back gets to be refurbished and loaded with a new firmware and a new serial number, making it fully compatible with any future version/s of LC and C1.
Yair
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When you buy the extended warranty/ service package the back gets to be refurbished and loaded with a new firmware and a new serial number, making it fully compatible with any future version/s of LC and C1.
Yair
So what goes one when i install a new version of Leaf Capture. It typically comes with a new version of firmware that's loaded when i tether the back. Why would there be two different 'types' of firmware.. one that can be customer installed, and the other that requires a full factory refurb and warranty extension?
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When you buy the extended warranty/ service package the back gets to be refurbished and loaded with a new firmware and a new serial number, making it fully compatible with any future version/s of LC and C1.
Yair
Yair,
Does this mean that if you have an older Aptus back (17 or 22), you will have to pay for the extended warranty/service package for new versions of LC and C1, will the backs not be compatible at all ? If so how much will this extended warranty/service package be ?
Pete
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Having bought my leaf aptus 22 with 3 years (shop) warranty in may this year, it sounds that i'm facing an other trouble...
if i pay for the upgrade, i won't be able to keep my warranty... i love this kind of situation !
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Unfortunately I know longer have a Leaf dealer since Calumet dropped Leaf, but they where pretty clueless about the product from the start. I already own C1 4 pro, does that mean I will get a free upgrade to V5? Will C1 5 have any type of lens fall off correction?
I create a custom lens calibration file, then upload it to the back. The problem I am having is some type of bug? The software tells me there is a large amount of lens falloff, but then sets its own max %% to correct it. One time it might be 35% the next time only 18%. I would like 100%. I then shot a 2nd lens file and might try to see if can use that file in the stand alone gain caliber.
I almost feel I need to go back to V8 when it worked. LC11 has had more then 1 problem.
As you know from past experience I have jumped through hoops to get a working lens calibration.
Hello John,
Your Leaf dealer should have all the answers for you by now. If you do not have a dealer you can send an email to the () and you will be put in contact with someone that can help you.
1) Not sure I understand. If you create a custom lens calibration file (with any % of falloff correction) and load it to the back using the wizard then that’s what it will use to calibrate all your images until you load another one or revert to the factory file...unless there’s a bug there that we’re not aware of. If that's the case, again you should report this to your dealer.
Yair
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I'm a little confused here. Will I have to pay in order to upgrade to the version of Leaf Capture that works with Snow Leopard?
John
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So what goes one when i install a new version of Leaf Capture. It typically comes with a new version of firmware that's loaded when i tether the back. Why would there be two different 'types' of firmware.. one that can be customer installed, and the other that requires a full factory refurb and warranty extension?
Firmware for your A75S has not been updated for more than a year (11.2.1?) And if you you install a new version (11.2.8 and up) and connect your back it WILL NOT upload any firmware to your back because it is not a Leaf Imaging back.
Once/ if you've done the upgrade, your back will turn into a Leaf Imaging back and as such the software (future versions), when necessary, will update it with new firmware versions.
Does this mean that if you have an older Aptus back (17 or 22), you will have to pay for the extended warranty/service package for new versions of LC and C1, will the backs not be compatible at all ? If so how much will this extended warranty/service package be?
You will not have to pay for LC (C1 however is not a free product). Your back will most likely work with newer LC versions without issues however it is not being tested. If you have tried 11.2.8 you will see that it works.
Having bought my leaf aptus 22 with 3 years (shop) warranty in may this year, it sounds that i'm facing an other trouble...
if i pay for the upgrade, i won't be able to keep my warranty... i love this kind of situation !
You can stay with the shop warranty until it expires and then buy the extended one. You'll need to check with the shop about their T&C.
Unfortunately I know longer have a Leaf dealer since Calumet dropped Leaf, but they where pretty clueless about the product from the start. I already own C1 4 pro, does that mean I will get a free upgrade to V5? Will C1 5 have any type of lens fall off correction?
I create a custom lens calibration file, then upload it to the back. The problem I am having is some type of bug? The software tells me there is a large amount of lens falloff, but then sets its own max %% to correct it. One time it might be 35% the next time only 18%. I would like 100%. I then shot a 2nd lens file and might try to see if can use that file in the stand alone gain caliber.
If C1 5 Pro is a chargeable upgrade then you have to pay for it of course. 5.0 has got a lot of new powerful features. If your back is out of warranty then I would recommend contacting the local dealer in CA) (http://www.leaf-photography.com/falu_ca.asp) to find out about your options. I will investigate further about the calibration issue that you have described to see if it is a bug.
I'm a little confused here. Will I have to pay in order to upgrade to the version of Leaf Capture that works with Snow Leopard?
Leaf Capture was always a free software and there are no plans to change this policy.
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Firmware for your A75S has not been updated for more than a year (11.2.1?) And if you you install a new version (11.2.8 and up) and connect your back it WILL NOT upload any firmware to your back because it is not a Leaf Imaging back.
Once/ if you've done the upgrade, your back will turn into a Leaf Imaging back and as such the software (future versions), when necessary, will update it with new firmware versions.
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My point was, what more beside a firmware upgrade will be done when converted to Leaf Imaging. If it's just a firmware upgrade, then it doesn't need to go in for any work... that upgrade can be done simply via Leaf Capture.
And besides the ability to use future versions of Leaf Capture.. what new improved features will this upgrade provide to me as the user?
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My point was, what more beside a firmware upgrade will be done when converted to Leaf Imaging. If it's just a firmware upgrade, then it doesn't need to go in for any work... that upgrade can be done simply via Leaf Capture.
Leaf has to modify your back in order for it to take the new firmware.
And besides the ability to use future versions of Leaf Capture.. what new improved features will this upgrade provide to me as the user?
The ability to use C1, by itself, is a great new feature but you of course get a new warranty covered by the same company that makes the new software.
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Leaf has to modify your back in order for it to take the new firmware.
The ability to use C1, by itself, is a great new feature but you of course get a new warranty covered by the same company that makes the new software.
.. so without this upgrade, i won't be able to use C1 with the back?
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if i would act like this or even a bit like this i would be ruined and bancrupt in 1 till 2 years.
its incredible what ideas appear to companies, just to squeeze out a little bit of money and how little they
care how fed up must get the existing customer base, clients which could be absorbed otherwise for
future products,- at least the part of clients who want to buy a mf back of the next generation.
who is inventing such business plans ?
which customer can understand such policy ?
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Leaf has to modify your back in order for it to take the new firmware.
The ability to use C1, by itself, is a great new feature but you of course get a new warranty covered by the same company that makes the new software.
so there's no internal/electronic imaging improvement done when the firmware is upgraded? The ability to use C1 would be controlled by the serial number which is upgraded in the firmware, which can be upgraded by the user via the normal Leaf Capture firmware upgrade process. Other than to get additional warranty revenue.. what purpose does this serve?
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When the alternative was the company went under entirely and no future support of any kind would be provided...
Phase didn't buy Leaf out of the goodness of their heart to save all the poor orphan Leaf users.
They did it to make money and there's nothing wrong with making money, except this sounds more than sideways, given the fact that Phase sells C-1 "pro" that works with Canon, Nikon and probably about a billion other files all the way back to legacy Canons, but . . . if you own a pre Phase absorbed Leaf back you have to buy a "warranty" to use the software?
Do you have to buy the "warranty" to stay current with LC11?
I don't have a dog in this hunt as I sold my Leaf after suffering through LC10, but come on, does this really make sense to alienate people that paid their money for a digital back (probably at much higher prices than today) and then ask them to spend more just to stay current on software?
At least the warranty isn't called "value added", or is it?
BC
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Phase didn't buy Leaf out of the goodness of their heart to save all the poor orphan Leaf users.
They did it to make money and there's nothing wrong with making money, except this sounds more than sideways, given the fact that Phase sells C-1 "pro" that works with Canon, Nikon and probably about a billion other files all the way back to legacy Canons, but . . . if you own a pre Phase absorbed Leaf back you have to buy a "warranty" to use the software?
Do you have to buy the "warranty" to stay current with LC11?
I don't have a dog in this hunt as I sold my Leaf after suffering through LC10, but come on, does this really make sense to alienate people that paid their money for a digital back (probably at much higher prices than today) and then ask them to spend more just to stay current on software?
At least the warranty isn't called "value added", or is it?
BC
Well I'm just happy I don't have leaf.
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I hope my almsot 2 years old Aptus22 will serve me a long time, because this will probably be the last LEAF/Phase product i bought!
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Yair, what's the price to UPGRADE Aptus 65 to new firmware/LC?
Is that UPGRADE provides only new firmware or more benefits?
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Leaf Capture was always a free software and there are no plans to change this policy.
a firen of mine bought the aptus 22 just when it cames out, and i think he paid some money for the software... ?
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In Finance/Investment term: Phase One wants a CLEAN Leaf Imaging Company. So LI's digital back/software has nothing to do with those that produced perior to LI. Phase One is NOT responsible for any LEAF products, but Leaf Imaging ones. In that way, Phase One protect themselves.
That is the Capitalism.
Xin
and protect themselves against old leaf users that will buy their next digital back from... Hasselblad !
it doesn't cost anything to have an online upgrade for old backs... and then they will be able to sell C1... let's wait and see how much it will cost for the upgrade...
if it's "cheap" ok, if it will cost 50% of an aptus 5...
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In Finance/Investment term: Phase One wants a CLEAN Leaf Imaging Company. So LI's digital back/software has nothing to do with those that produced perior to LI. Phase One is NOT responsible for any LEAF products, but Leaf Imaging ones. In that way, Phase One protect themselves.
That is the Capitalism.
Xin
the signs were there when the new leaf capture upgrade made it clear to state that they did not support the 75S.
genius of them to rename Leaf and Leaf Imaging and retain the look of it, so it seems like they're still the same company but basically fxxking over the old customers.
How is this supposed to uh encourage any goodwill in the Leaf customers towards Phase One, I don't know.
And why anyone would specifically want to buy new Leaf products is also beyond my comprehension.
Yes I know Phase One doesn't own Leaf users anything. Whatever.
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I'm not understanding all the negativity. Leaf Capture is still being supported and is free. Capture One is going to cost money. I can keep shooting my Leaf back and it won't cost anything. What am I supposed to be complaining about?
John
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Having to spend money to ensure your back is compatible with future versions of LC.
Unless you're happy to stick with 11.2.8 until the back dies ...
But let's see how much this "upgrade" is going to be, perhaps those who bought from Leaf dealers will see some value for the extra money spent over e bay.
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Having to spend money to ensure your back is compatible with future versions of LC.
Unless you're happy to stick with 11.2.8 until the back dies ...
According to Yair:
Leaf Capture was always a free software and there are no plans to change this policy.
Unless I'm missing something, nothing is really changing.
John
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LC will remain free, I don't doubt that at all
Will it be useable with non-Leaf Imaging backs? (Those not sold by the new company or "upgraded")
If all we have to do is bypass a message - as we do now with 11.2.8 - I can live with that. If I have to spend over $xxx to be able to use LC 11.3 +, well, that's another story. My back was bought from Leaf America and is still under warranty. I'm waiting for my dealer's answer since the announcement mid last week. Can see it going either way.
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If I were to buy a brand new Phase-owned Leaf back next week or month what software will it ship with?
Am I mistaken to assume all Phase backs are shipped with C1 ? Will the new Leaf backs follow the same protocol ?
Mark
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If I were to buy a brand new Phase-owned Leaf back next week or month what software will it ship with?
Am I mistaken to assume all Phase backs are shipped with C1 ? Will the new Leaf backs follow the same protocol ?
Mark
Next week: LC11.2.8 or 11.2.9 (if it is released by then)
Next month: most likely 11.2.9 and maybe C1 5.0 (if it is released)
As soon as C1 5.0 ships, all new Leaf Imaging backs will ship with it (DB licence) along with LC11
Yair
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Why all the negativity indeed ?
ALL software can be used as it was like before for free.
Leaf could also say that they would stop ALL support of Leaf Capture and only support Capture one from now on, but no they don't.
You get the change to buy a NEW WARRANTY with an update to use both Leaf Capture and Capture One.
I really don't see a problem at all.
As I see it, if Leaf would have gone under we would have warranty but no snow leopard support, no new software and firmware and no new backs.
Meaning I would sell my Leaf back with pain in my heart and buy a Phase one or Hasselblad.
But missing the quality I see now.
The situation now is VERY positive.
We have Leaf in a new company Leaf imaging.
They keep supporting the old backs although it's a completely new company, and you can buy a new warranty and firmware for use in OTHER software than you use now.
My story would have been different if you had to pay for using it in new Leaf Capture software.
on the other hand, some people always only see the negative parts of a story.....
It will not be the last Leaf I buy, I'm just very glad Leaf continued and now we can use both Leaf Capture and Capture one. What more to wish for ?
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Frank,
I paid $49 to upgrade Mac OS (family pack).
If the price to upgrade to new Aptus Leaf Imaging Firmware is about same, I will buy it.
But, I'm afraid, Leaf Imaging want me to buy their Extended Warranty (a warranty after 1st year expires).
My local dealer asked approx 20% of my Aptus 65 purchase price for that extended warranty, which looks absurd, or at least bad business for me.
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[indent][/indent]
Next week: LC11.2.8 or 11.2.9 (if it is released by then)
Next month: most likely 11.2.9 and maybe C1 5.0 (if it is released)
As soon as C1 5.0 ships, all new Leaf Imaging backs will ship with it (DB licence) along with LC11
Yair
BTW, DB license of C1 has always been free.
Yair,
Will "LI" digital backs connect instantly into C1v5
or will it take the usual 15-30 seconds of watching the progress bar as with LC software?
Billy
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Hello,
I was told by the New Zealand distributor for Leaf that the soft wear upgrade for my 3 year old Leaf Aptus 75 back like would cost 2000 Euros.
That is a lot of money to be able to use Capture One .
Cheers
Simon
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I agree 20% would be a high price to pay and in that case I would not do the upgrade but rather upgrade.
Or keep using the back.
If there would be new features in the new firmware I guess it's a personal choice.
Lower noise can be done in post. And only counts for iso400 in my case which I hardly use.
But that's personal.
My opinion was more based on the fact that noone is forced to pay. Lc still is a good solution so you can keep using it.
Maybe the new warranty is because the back is changed and falling under the kodak warranty anymore ?
But that's a guess.
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So, if I decide to forget about LC and decide to purchase and use Capture One when it supports my Aptus 75S, what is the situation then? Will it work or will some sort of license be necessary?
Is there any way of purchasing a firmware upgrade independently of the software you use? Couldn't firmware upgrades be handled on an individual sale basis similar to software upgrades in most programs?
Personally, I don't really see the benefit of maintaining LC at a cost if Capture One is good software and is in popular use. I would be happy to buy it if it going to keep itself at the cutting edge. I would have bought it already if it supported my back.
David
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Next week: LC11.2.8 or 11.2.9 (if it is released by then)
Next month: most likely 11.2.9 and maybe C1 5.0 (if it is released)
As soon as C1 5.0 ships, all new Leaf Imaging backs will ship with it (DB licence) along with LC11
Thanks for that clarification, Yair.
The announced Aptus 5 is of interest to me but, by your post, it doesn't seem to make sense to jump in early
given the probability the all new Leaf Imaging backs will ship with C1 5.0 DB when available.
Will new Leaf Imaging backs sold before C1 5.0 DB is available be eligible for C1 once it's on the market ?
Mark
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YaYa, any clarification on the Gain adjuster problem? According to the old Leaf America, they are aware its a software problem that never got fixed. As far as the firmware upgrade cost potently costing $2000 you have to be kidding. Will people have to upgrade the firmware to use C1 5? I think It would be nice to hear some straight to the point answers, not we have to wait.
Please let Phase-one know Leaf users feel a little stranded and disillusioned. If they only see older Leaf users as just money up front, the back end will be upgrades to Hasselblad.
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Awaiting clarification:
• Will Leaf digital backs connect instantly into C1v5
or will it take the usual 15-30 seconds of watching the progress bar as with LC software?
• Once a Leaf digital back tethers into Capture One Pro v5
will LIVE VIDEO work without $1495 dongle?
Billy
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Just two questions:
- Will a future LC, which is Snow leopard compatible, support the old Aptus 75 back, without paying for that warranty package ?
- Would you please make Live View free for the next LC ?
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I paid for my live video dongle.
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YaYa, any clarification on the Gain adjuster problem? According to the old Leaf America, they are aware its a software problem that never got fixed. As far as the firmware upgrade cost potently costing $2000 you have to be kidding. Will people have to upgrade the firmware to use C1 5? I think It would be nice to hear some straight to the point answers, not we have to wait.
Please let Phase-one know Leaf users feel a little stranded and disillusioned. If they only see older Leaf users as just money up front, the back end will be upgrades to Hasselblad.
John, I've checked regarding the lens calibration and the application basically looks at the calibration file and "decided" if the falloff is at an acceptable level. If it is not it will adjust the % of correction and will set it to the maximum acceptable amount.
If you consider the fact that the back is taken in, gets checked over, repaired ("refurb'ed") and then modified so it can be updated with a new firmware and shipped with a new 2 year warranty, maybe the cost will become easier to fathom.
Regarding C1 5. In order for the back to be able to connect to C1 it will have to be modified as described above. Please note that 5.0 is not going to provide tethered support. This will be implemented in later versions.
Yair
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I find it strange the stand alone gain adjuster lets me correct 100% but LC 11 limits me. Its a real problem wanting a corrected image tethered. I tested a 2nd work flow of shooting 1 correction in LC 11 then shooting a 2nd white disc to just correct the falloff in post. I might go back to shooting calibration files in V8 today, then shooting tethered in LC 11.
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If you consider the fact that the back is taken in, gets checked over, repaired ("refurb'ed") and then modified so it can be updated with a new firmware and shipped with a new 2 year warranty, maybe the cost will become easier to fathom.
Yair, what IS modified? For example, will Aptus 65 be modified to Aptus II 65? What modified back does better than unmodified back?
Regards
Evgeny
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If you consider the fact that the back is taken in, gets checked over, repaired ("refurb'ed") and then modified so it can be updated with a new firmware and shipped with a new 2 year warranty, maybe the cost will become easier to fathom.
Regarding C1 5. In order for the back to be able to connect to C1 it will have to be modified as described above. Please note that 5.0 is not going to provide tethered support. This will be implemented in later versions.
Yair
Yair,
What is 'the cost' ? I can't begin to 'fathom' it until I know !
Pete
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Yair,
What is 'the cost' ?
(http://ishotit.com/Dr_Evil.jpg)
$1,000,000
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I paid for my live video dongle.
+1
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(http://ishotit.com/Dr_Evil.jpg)
$1,000,000
BCooter, You're just too much....
Mmm..... $1,000,000 that's double what the back is worth/cost. Maybe I'll just use my Canon instead.
Pete
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I paid for my live video dongle.
Live video comes free with the more recent backs, doesn't it ?
If you consider the fact that the back is taken in, gets checked over, repaired ("refurb'ed") and then modified so it can be updated with a new firmware and shipped with a new 2 year warranty, maybe the cost will become easier to fathom.
Considering that the very affordable, original upgrade options for my Aptus 75 to a new Leaf back have vanished, and the valuable service of my former dealer no longer exists, I'm not overly impressed by an offer that potentially adds 2000 or so Euros to my loss.
Yair, I very much appreciate your contributions, I just wished you'd stop pussyfooting around the fact that pre-Phase Leaf customers have been shafted by the takeover.
Such is life, but still.
Good for you you kept your job, I'm sure it's well deserved, but expecting me or anyone to appreciate a costly 'update' to adapt to the new owner's software (which I loathe) is a bit strong.
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I discussed today the firmware upgrade with a dealer in Israel.
He said, the firmware upgrade will allow to control the Leaf digital backs from the Phase One software.
He also said it will add support of Snow Leopard to the Leaf Capture.
So, as far as I understand, spend a few hundreds backs if you want to control your Leaf digital back from a Phase One software. Otherwise stay with free Leaf Capture, I believe it will run under Snow Leopard for free.
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I discussed today the firmware upgrade with a dealer in Israel.
He said, the firmware upgrade will allow to control the Leaf digital backs from the Phase One software.
He also said it will add support of Snow Leopard to the Leaf Capture.
So, as far as I understand, spend a few hundreds backs if you want to control your Leaf digital back from a Phase One software. Otherwise stay with free Leaf Capture, I believe it will run under Snow Leopard for free.
Few hundred? Try $2600 (approx amount I was quoted by my dealer).
And stay with free Leaf Capture for how many more versions? C1 will swallow it within a year.
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I discussed today the firmware upgrade with a dealer in Israel.
He said, the firmware upgrade will allow to control the Leaf digital backs from the Phase One software.
He also said it will add support of Snow Leopard to the Leaf Capture.
So, as far as I understand, spend a few hundreds backs if you want to control your Leaf digital back from a Phase One software. Otherwise stay with free Leaf Capture, I believe it will run under Snow Leopard for free.
i think it has more with the supportability of the old backs by Phase One. The older backs can already do live capture... and the last time i checked, i didn't have to send my Nikon D3 into Phase One for a hardware mod to run under C1.
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Few hundred? Try $2600 (approx amount I was quoted by my dealer).
And stay with free Leaf Capture for how many more versions? C1 will swallow it within a year.
Regarding prices...
I recently asked my dealer in Israel about cost of extended warranty. He said XXXX (approx 20% of the purchase price) for TWO years.
I asked him today once again, he said XXXX+$200 for ONE year.
So, take it easy. The price doesn't matter
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Regarding prices...
I recently asked my dealer in Israel about cost of extended warranty. He said XXXX (approx 20% of the purchase price) for TWO years.
I asked him today once again, he said XXXX+$200 for ONE year.
So, take it easy. The price doesn't matter
Not sure I get what you're saying - your dealer first told you the upgrade was so many thousand dollars (20% of purchase price of what exactly?) which included a 2 year warranty, then after that he told you a 1 year warranty was also so many thousand dollars + an additional $200 ??
If that's the case then I have to agree with you - the price doesn't matter as it's irrational ...
I have only been given very basic info (what i listed before) : ~$2600 to get non-Leaf Imaging backs "upgraded" - ie. refurbed and loaded with new firmware which will allow use of C1 v5, and includes a 2 year warranty. Without the upgrade Leaf Capture can still be used for free but Leaf Capture will be phased out within the year. No upgrade paths to new Leaf products except the Aptus II 10.
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I have only been given very basic info (what i listed before) : ~$2600 to get non-Leaf Imaging backs "upgraded" - ie. refurbed and loaded with new firmware which will allow use of C1 v5, and includes a 2 year warranty. Without the upgrade Leaf Capture can still be used for free but Leaf Capture will be phased out within the year. No upgrade paths to new Leaf products except the Aptus II 10.
I think that's one of the problems.. is lack of substantiated word coming from Leaf (clear and concise). A little bit of information has made it out.. but just enough to cause a lot of confusion and a lot of worried/bad feelings from the installed base.
I'd imagine that if even a small amount of the information running thru this thread were true... it would make Hasselblad a very happy company.
An example might be taken from Betterlight... by far one of the best customer oriented companies I've ever seen.
I
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Not sure I get what you're saying - your dealer first told you the upgrade was so many thousand dollars (20% of purchase price of what exactly?) which included a 2 year warranty, then after that he told you a 1 year warranty was also so many thousand dollars + an additional $200 ??
If that's the case then I have to agree with you - the price doesn't matter as it's irrational ...
I have only been given very basic info (what i listed before) : ~$2600 to get non-Leaf Imaging backs "upgraded" - ie. refurbed and loaded with new firmware which will allow use of C1 v5, and includes a 2 year warranty. Without the upgrade Leaf Capture can still be used for free but Leaf Capture will be phased out within the year. No upgrade paths to new Leaf products except the Aptus II 10.
You got it right.
If development of Leaf Capture will stop within the year, I need to look for alternatives yet today.
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All I'd ask is for them to continue with Leaf Capture, but I can't see that happening past next year.
How many A22 owners are willing to spend 50% of the resale value (as of the announcement of the Aptus II 5) of their backs to make them work with Capture 1?
How many Aptus owners think $2600 is a fair price for a 2 year warranty (considering the ability to use C1 isn't really something any of us wanted)?
It's true Leaf Imaging doesn't owe us anything - do we owe them anything?
I see a future where I'm maintaining a couple of 2010 era macbook pro's running 10.6 only for LC 11.9, never taking any of them on a job, and shooting 100% Canon. Sad but efficient.
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Yesterday I met one of the three "primaries" to the new Leaf Imaging company at PhotoPlus, Steve Hendrix was there beside me as well and could tell you his name. Nice guy and he was willing to explain in more details how and what he and the other two did to get the new Leaf Imaging going. They purchased specific tooling, patents and assets from Kodak to continue the Leaf line. They hired some (maybe all I forget) of the employees Kodak fired. The company seems to be on a good track forward.
But and it's a big but, they are a company that has made the decision to support backs going forward not legacy backs as the old Leaf did. They are a new company and that's it. They can't put money and resources to supporting pervious Old Leaf company products. That was the choice they had to make.
Leaf Capture will continue being developed along side Capture One for the foreseeable future. Capture One will support the current new Aptus-II series backs only and newer product in the future, but legacy .MOS files from any previous Leaf back will not be supported in Capture One. At least he was honest enough to say so. So my Aptus 22 files will never work in Capture One, oh well.
I would assume that all future releases will most likely still work with old Leaf company backs, but the new Leaf Imaging will not be testing that. So if they don't "break" anything in the software, things might still be fine on the software side.
But here is my take on medium format backs, and I have heard the same in speaking with other MFDB past and present owners/users at PhotoPlus. Medium format needs to create more feature sets and not keep selling backs solely on the 100% pixel peeping, crazy freaky detail, because those very users/owners, well some just don't care. Their clients don't care either. 22 megapixels is really very reasonable file size for commercial work. Functionality and every other ignored request made by photographers is actually the future for MFDBs. We have put the roadmap out there for the companies, but they just need to listen and do it!
this may be the tract they are following.. but frankly.. it seems like more of a punishment of the old 'legacy' buyers.
From the Capture One release notes.. supported files
Phase One: P 65+, P 45+, P 40+, P 30+, P 25+, P 21+, P 20+, P 45, P 30,
P 25, P 21, P 20, H 25, H 20, H 10, H 101, H 5, LightPhase
Mamiya: M31, M22, M18
Additionally Capture One 4.8.3 / 4.8.3 PRO supports RAW files from the following digital
backs/cameras:
Canon: 1Ds Mark III, 1D Mark III, 1D Mark II N, 1Ds Mark II, 1D Mark II, 1Ds, 1D,
5D Mark II, 5D, 50D, 40D, 30D, 20D, 10D, 500D/Rebel T1i, 450D/Rebel XSi, 400D/Rebel XTi, 350D/Rebel
XT, 300D/Rebel, 1000D, D60, D30, Pro 1, G10, G9, G6, G5, G3, G2
Epson: R-D1s, R-D1
Fuji: S5 Pro, S3 Pro, S2 Pro
Konica Minolta: Alpha 5 D / Maxxum 5 D / Dynax 5 D, Alpha 7 D / Maxxum 7 D / Dynax 7 D, A1, A2
Leica: M9, M8, D-LUX 4, Digilux 3, Digital Module R for R8 and R9 cameras
Mamiya: MZD, ZD Back
Nikon: D3X, D3, D2Xs, D2X, D2Hs, D2H, D1X, D1H, D700, D300, D200, D100, D90, D80, D70s, D70, D60,
D50, D40X, D40
Olympus: E-620, E-3, E-520, E-510, E-420, E-410, E-500, E-1, E-10, E-20, E-30, E-330, E-300, E-400, C-
7070, C-8080
Pentax: K20D, K10D, K200D, K110D, K100D Super, K100D, K2000/K-m, *istDL2, *istDL, *istD, *istDS2,
*istDS
(Only PEF files supported)
Sony: DSLR-A900, DSLR-A700, DSLR-A350, DSLR-A300, DSLR-A200, DSLR-A100, DSC-R1
Adobe: DNG (raw DNG support only). The DNG support is not optimized for specific cameras.
Tethered camera support
Capture One 4.8.3 PRO/DB has tethered support for the following digital backs/cameras:
Phase One: P 65+, P 40+, P 45+, P 30+, P 21+, P 25+, P 20+
P 45, P 30, P 25, P 21, P 20, H 25, H 20, H 101, H 10, H 5, LightPhase
Mamiya: M31, M22, M18
Additionally Capture One 4.8.3 PRO has tethered support for the following cameras:
Canon: 1Ds Mark III, 1D Mark III, 1D Mark II N, 1Ds Mark II, 1D Mark II,
5D Mark II, 5D, 40D, 30D, 20D, 450D/Rebel XSi, 400D/Rebel XTi, 350D/Rebel XT, 1000D
Nikon: D3X, D3, D700, D300, D200, D90, D80, D60, D40x, D40
Last time I checked neither Phase One or Leaf Imaging are responsible for the majority of the cameras on this list.. I could understand the stance if all owners of the above cameras were required to send their cameras in to Phase to have hardware upgrades and serial numbers changed in order to get them to work with Capture One.
Frankly, it seems like an arbitrary decision to punish those who have not upgraded to the latest/greatest that Leaf Imaging is selling (and since there are no 'upgrades', it means buying the new for full price.
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this may be the tract they are following.. but frankly.. it seems like more of a punishment of the old 'legacy' buyers.
. . .
Frankly, it seems like an arbitrary decision to punish those who have not upgraded to the latest/greatest that Leaf Imaging is selling (and since there are no 'upgrades', it means buying the new for full price.
That is how I see it. Which is why I will, mark my words, film my smashing of my 54s back with a Canon 1 series. Once the 54s dies, if that ever happens. I will post the video on YouTube, and I'll wear a ski mask and make silly demands, like demanding that grips wear underwear and not have any felony convictions.
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Personally I feel ripped off by Leaf and Kodak. From day one I was promised a back that would function and never got it. I wonder what the legality is with Kodak? All I have heard was, promise promise promise, wait wait wait the next version of LC will correct the problem. I never got it, then they dumped the brand. If Phase decides not to support the older Leaf line that is there business decision, but I will never buy another Leaf/Phase product.
There is a bug in LC 11 gain adjuster and no one to fix it. I bought the Leaf back solely based on the gain adjuster for my style of work.
I am curious if there is anything legal that can be done against Kodak? My advise to anyone thinking of buying Leaf, don't. Why take a chance Phase will dump the brand 1 year done the line and your stuck with software stuck in 2010.
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Frankly, it seems like an arbitrary decision to punish those who have not upgraded to the latest/greatest that Leaf Imaging is selling (and since there are no 'upgrades', it means buying the new for full price.
As to upgrades - you may upgrade to the Aptus II 10 and/or "upgrade" (your firmware) to one day run Capture 1. If there are or will be more options no one is saying so.
Like most others here who shoot for a living, 90% of the time there is little I do with my Leaf back that can't be done quicker, easier, and, for the client's needs, just as well with my Canon. The files aren't the same, but they're good, and they print well. Last year I shot 90% Leaf, 10% Canon. This year it's 50/50, and that's only because I prefer the end result of the Leaf back. But with every job it gets harder to justify. Now Leaf Imaging considers me a liability first and a customer second, unless I buy their $2600 "protection package". Earlier this year we were considering getting 2 new Leaf backs. Right now that mindset is a distant memory.
It's just a shame as the aptus still makes the nicest, most photographic files of any back I've seen.
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Totally off topic. Why I really desire moving to motion work is that the projects offer so much more interest to me than the gear and software. And I have some utopian thought that I can produce, create, edit, deliver motion pieces and be done, move on to another piece and never have the desire to revisit the files to try this or that, which plagues digital for me now. I always revisit files and start tinkering for a different look or something. I see motion work some way of getting past that. Then I can store all the motion "data" and be done, maybe not even worry about whether the files can be read in 10 years, maybe not care.
Amen to that. I don't care if a mayo commercial I lit or shot is readable next week.
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As to upgrades - you may upgrade to the Aptus II 10 and/or "upgrade" (your firmware) to one day run Capture 1. If there are or will be more options no one is saying so.
Like most others here who shoot for a living, 90% of the time there is little I do with my Leaf back that can't be done quicker, easier, and, for the client's needs, just as well with my Canon. The files aren't the same, but they're good, and they print well. Last year I shot 90% Leaf, 10% Canon. This year it's 50/50, and that's only because I prefer the end result of the Leaf back. But with every job it gets harder to justify. Now Leaf Imaging considers me a liability first and a customer second, unless I buy their $2600 "protection package". Earlier this year we were considering getting 2 new Leaf backs. Right now that mindset is a distant memory.
It's just a shame as the aptus still makes the nicest, most photographic files of any back I've seen.
Yes.
I've used the Leaf twice, maybe three times in 2009. Frankly, I've shot more frames of 4x5 film in 2009 than I've logged on the Leaf back, and its not because the Leaf files aren't fantastic. They are. It just doesn't fit into my work as well as it did a few years ago.
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All,
The plan is being re-considered right now and we'll hopefully be able to communicate it within a few days. Hence why I kept quiet for the last few days.
Regardless, LC 11.2.9 is expected before the end of the month and it will work on Snow Leopard so Aptus users will have a working solution at no cost.
Stay tuned,
Yair
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Yair Shahar | Product Manager
Leaf Imaging Ltd.
e: ysh@leaf-photography.com | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | www.leaf-photography.com
Leaf, a Phase One company
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Finally, perhaps someone realised the most valuable asset they "bought" was the loyal user base they were rapidly pissing off. Me included.
I am a long time Leaf customer, I have five backs, I had two Valeo's, a 22 and a 17, the 22 got stolen rescently, and I will be waiting to see if I will get screwed over with the 17 not working with any new versions of LC11, before I get a AptusII 5, I could care less about Phase C1, really. They need to go back to at-least Valeo, anything less is bullshit ( excuse my French ) in my opinion. Leaf were guilty of this in the past, introducing new versions of LC 11 that were primarily for new models, but would not specifically mention support for older backs. I stopped upgrading at LC11.1, have they added any new functionality since then??
Jason.
All,
The plan is being re-considered right now and we'll hopefully be able to communicate it within a few days. Hence why I kept quiet for the last few days.
Regardless, LC 11.2.9 is expected before the end of the month and it will work on Snow Leopard so Aptus users will have a working solution at no cost.
Stay tuned,
Yair
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Yair Shahar | Product Manager
Leaf Imaging Ltd.
e: ysh@leaf-photography.com | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | www.leaf-photography.com
Leaf, a Phase One company
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after having read more than 70 posts i still don't understand what's going to happen.
i use a aptus 65s bought less than a year ago. will there be any future leaf capture software
that runs on a recent mac that i can use without having extra expenses for upgrades, guarantees
or however this is called by leaf?
and how about capture one. as far as i understand i have to do an 2000$ upgrade to be able to use it.
does that mean i still have to buy the program or is this included?
and can i use it tethered?
so many questions... seems not easy do get a decent answer from the maufacturer.
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You couldn't understand because no one knows what will happen.
I'm glad to see Yair has chimed in and they are reconsidering their position.
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hm, seems its a mamiya/phase/leaf - problem
i still have'nt got an answer if i can use the new ls lenses
with my afd III as promised when i purchased it 10 months ago.
not very customer friendly i guess.
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This is nuts.
Take the car industry, BMW brought the Mini and make it in both Germany and the UK. Can you imagine someone taking their Mini in for a service, that they brought before BMW brought it, and been told that the car has to be “upgraded” to be able to work with BMWs testing machines? Oh by the way it might cost you 20% of the purchase price or it might be £2000 or it might be something else cos we haven’t decided yet.
How many car companies have changed ownership in the past year? Do the new owners say tough we don’t have anything to do with that car you brought because it was brought under the old owners.
Please please please just tell people what is going on, so many different accounts are coming out from different places from one day to the next people are just been left confused and frustrated.
David
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This is nuts.
Take the car industry, BMW brought the Mini and make it in both Germany and the UK. Can you imagine someone taking their Mini in for a service, that they brought before BMW brought it, and been told that the car has to be “upgraded” to be able to work with BMWs testing machines? Oh by the way it might cost you 20% of the purchase price or it might be £2000 or it might be something else cos we haven’t decided yet.
How many car companies have changed ownership in the past year? Do the new owners say tough we don’t have anything to do with that car you brought because it was brought under the old owners.
Please please please just tell people what is going on, so many different accounts are coming out from different places from one day to the next people are just been left confused and frustrated.
David
David,
Indeed, confused, frustrated and bewildered. Just another example of the MFDB industry screwing around with their customer base. I'm so glad I didn't get involved with buying a back now. All I do is get out the D3x plug it in and it works. No mess, no worries, no angst. Another customer lost to the 35mm DSLR crowd. Believe me I love medium format, so if I feel the need to use MF now I just use film, and very nice it is too.
Pete
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I've just read the whole topic and before reading the quoted post I've been thinking whether I should put my Aptus 75 for auction on ebay or I would get a better price from my dealer...
No software updates without paying = bye bye Aptus, hello Hasselblad, that's a no brainer. Paying $2600 for the >>LUXURY<< of using up-to-date software in our modern world is an insult. I don't know who's idea is that but it feels like some kind of a revenge for choosing Leaf products over Phase one alternatives.
Oh, one more funny thing. A month ago I asked polish Leaf representative for a price quote and hardware upgrade routes for my Aptus 75. For 16,6k euro I can get an upgrade to Aptus II 7 with this new warranty. The price tag for Aptus II 7 here is 20,74k euro so it seems that my back is worth 4k euro according to Leaf. That differs a bit from what I've seen on my bill when I got mine. Oh, wait, you have to subtract the new extended warranty, so my back according to Leaf is worth 2k. And for extra 16k euro I can exchange the back for a newer one with the same sensor dimmension, ain't that great...
If it turns out that there are no LC software upgrade possibilities without paying, you can PM me with your offers because my Aptus 75 is up for grabs.
All,
The plan is being re-considered right now and we'll hopefully be able to communicate it within a few days. Hence why I kept quiet for the last few days.
Regardless, LC 11.2.9 is expected before the end of the month and it will work on Snow Leopard so Aptus users will have a working solution at no cost.
Stay tuned,
Yair
--
Yair Shahar | Product Manager
Leaf Imaging Ltd.
e: ysh@leaf-photography.com | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | www.leaf-photography.com
Leaf, a Phase One company
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since phase/mamiya/leaf are constantly screwing their customers
think about legal action or at least boycott their products in the future
and let them go down the drain, if they are not willing to change their attitude.
companies thousand times bigger have been forced to reconsider their business conduct
under the pressure of consumers.
who needs companies who ignore even the basics of business ethics?
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since phase/mamiya/leaf are constantly screwing their customers
think about legal action or at least boycott their products in the future
and let them go down the drain, if they are not willing to change their attitude.
companies thousand times bigger have been forced to reconsider their business conduct
under the pressure of consumers.
who needs companies who ignore even the basics of business ethics?
obviously Nikon / Canon wouldn't dare to make such a bold move because it's quite obvious that somewhere it brakes the law of customer, at least European Union regulations. USA has even more profound and complex customer law regulations and if the market was say 5 000 000 digital backs, noone would ever attempt to do such a thing, it would end up with a flood of court action..
I wonder how did Leaf img and P1 back themselves up. Maybe re-branding laws help them somehow tackle this issue.. I don't believe that a company makes such a move without backing itself up.
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All,
The plan is being re-considered right now and we'll hopefully be able to communicate it within a few days. Hence why I kept quiet for the last few days.
Regardless, LC 11.2.9 is expected before the end of the month and it will work on Snow Leopard so Aptus users will have a working solution at no cost.
Stay tuned,
Yair
--
Yair Shahar | Product Manager
Leaf Imaging Ltd.
e: ysh@leaf-photography.com | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | www.leaf-photography.com
Leaf, a Phase One company
Hi Yaya,
I wrote this to Martin before. I am a bit disappointed and worried about the future developments. We own "former leaf" backs and it seems to me and many other users that we are forced to use C1 in the future. I like LC very much (V8 was great for shooting, too, used LC10 for tif-converting these days), don´t like C1 and the people trying to push Phase One here. Even if C1 might get better using leaf (creo) software knowledge, will it be better than LC? And even if, I will still not be willing to pay that amount for the "updates" of the old backs. Our "insurance" was always to have a second back and a second camera to switch over if something would be wrong with a setup (Cameras failed, we never needed the backup back until now). But WE VALUE OUR CUSTOMERS and our productions are too important for us to take a risk here. 99,5% of our work is done with our leaf backs, looking at the image results I still think we made the right decision to use leaf technology for our work but I am sure you will loose a lot of trust in the installed base of your customers going that way. MFDB is not an easy place right now, but you should really reconsider these plans in a quiet moment and I hope to see leaf developing strong and continue to deliver the best digital equipment in the future, not to squeeze your users to get money for P1.
Cheers
Ulf
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Hello Yair:
It seems that Leaf Imaging (or its big boss Phase 1) only want to inherit those clients (or client list) from Leaf Photography, and squeeze money from them.
Leaf Imaging should support all products by Leaf Photography. If everyone just want to be away from their predecessors, how this world could. Look at Sinar, the new company still support those products by the OLDER Sinar.
As for the AFi system, I can say, Even Leaf Image continue that system again, the current AFi users may well be required to purchase some warranty extension plan too. Am I right?
Leaf Imaging should be a Trustworthy company to win every client's Loyalty.
Xin
Xin,
It is only limited true that Sinar Photography will support older product. Sinar itself stopped supporting Fibre Optic backs with new software in eXposure. Support for backs such as the FW 43 backs and the Jenoptik backs never materialized.
I believe Sinar Photography is honest in their intentions of providing software upgrades in the future, but not all backs will or are supported. The same goes for repair of older backs. Some of them just cannot be repaired any longer.
The truth is that the new Leaf Imaging probably does not have access to some of the older backs to test support. I am sure they made choices as to what intellectual property to purchase from Kodak, and did not purchase others that did not make financial sense.
I have spent more than 20 years working with employees from Leaf, as well as Sinar. They are very good customer driven people and are not looking to "screw" anyone. They have had to make very difficult decisions in order to save their respective companies and provide support to ANY customers. It is just a bit unrealistic to expect them to write a blank check and say they will support all product.
If Leaf or Sinar had not been rescued there would be NO support of any kind. You would have been left with no form of any software upgrades or technical support into the future. Totally locked into computer, software and hardware options for the remaining life of the back. I still know photographers that are still using backs on G3's and G4s without any hope of upgraded hardware, because that is where they are stuck for various reasons. Be it the company went out of business, or the computer technology no longer allows upgrades.
I am not trying to minimize your concerns or aggravation. But it seems that Leaf Imaging has said that there will be at least one more free software upgrade allowing Snow Leopard compatibility. One that would be otherwise unavailable if Leaf had closed it's doors forever. After that the choice is up to you whether to upgrade the firmware to use C1 or stay put and get another X number of years out of your back before Apple introduces a new operating system.
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How is a $2600 firmware upgrade justified? Who else does this?
It doesn't cost them to allow previous owners to use software they let others use for free (or at most much less than $2600). Charging $2600 is milking people who have basically no choice.
If I buy an A75 refurb tomorrow it will be able to use the new software for free. It's only because the new company sold it as opposed to the old company. The back is the same as the one I could have bought before the takeover.
I think the people from Leaf are not the ones making this decision.
And to say the choice was this or have no Leaf whatsoever is misleading. We can have a Leaf that doesn't try to screw us for being associated with the previous owners instead of Phase.
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Ferrari still repair their sports car made in 20 years ago, why? Becasue it is the matter of the Client Loyalty. I regard that as an outstanding tradition of an Europen company, because they care the Ancestry or the Bloodline. But now, we are living in a MAC Hamburger world. Fast food culture (the pressure of earn money as quick as possible) is destroying everything.
The employees from Leaf, as well as Sinar are HONEST, I am not doubt about that. The case we are discussing is nothing/something about the Honesty, but of sustaining the Loyalty from your clients.
Please polish the brand of Leaf Imaging when you are earning money.
Xin
Well yes Ferrari repairs the old cars, but certainly not for free.....
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right.
when ferrari was bought by fiat, people had to pay for a firmware update to make sure that fiat will service their cars in the future.
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Well yes Ferrari repairs the old cars, but certainly not for free.....
nothing is broken on these leaf backs which has to be repaired.
nothing has to be "upgraded" too i.m.o. the correct word has to be "unlock", not "upgrade".
the only problem seems for me that in C1 are some bits set/ written ( of course with exactly this intention ),
the "old" leaf back files are not recognised/ supported without being "unlocked".
the 2xxx $ "upgrade/ unlock" let the back modify these bits and C1 accepts these back afterwards.
the files are not working because the software blocks them and the sw does this in the intention that you cannot use C1 for free,
so P1 can charge this money.
there is no upgrade necessary but a small code change in C1 to include the older leaf back file-flags in their supported list,
probably we will see that the reconsidered plan of P1 will not longer make it necessary to send in the backs ......
if they started to reconsider this now, most likely they will go this way.
but i just repeat i cannot understand who lead companies to such decisions,
which are so clearly ruining their fame and reputability.
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I've said it before but I'm still convinced that the whole discussion is a bit of overacting which is harming Leaf more than the procedure itself.
In my opinion it's very simple.
You have a Leaf Aptus back.
You still have warranty as you had.
You still can use leaf capture as you could before.
Leaf Capture is upgraded to Snow Leopard.
So IF leaf would never have been taken over by Phase one it would be the same situation.
Leaf however is a NEW COMPANY, not the same company but a new entity.
So as I see it the warranty now is handled by Kodak and not by Leaf Imaging (I could be wrong).
Leaf Imaging is a phase one company.
So they offer an upgrade for user that WANT it, to be able to start using capture one.
You will get a NEW warranty for your old back, let's say you had 2 months left in your warranty you now have a new period.
Imagine your back breaks down after 5 months, now you will have your money back, if not at least you can use Capture one.
For me personally I won't do the upgrade if it's indeed as expensive as mentioned here, I'm more than happy with Leaf Capture for what I do, but I do need a snow leopard version.
I'm more thinking about doing an upgrade to a new back in the future, but I will wait to see what is being released and at which price.
If the price would drop down to a few hunderd I will do the upgrade without thinking about it.
So in my opinion, there's no reason to be panicing.
No one forces anyone to upgrade, you still have your warranty as you would when Leaf was still with Kodak.
I see it as an extra option, you can take it or "leaf" it
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I've said it before but I'm still convinced that the whole discussion is a bit of overacting which is harming Leaf more than the procedure itself.
In my opinion it's very simple.
You have a Leaf Aptus back.
You still have warranty as you had.
You still can use leaf capture as you could before.
Leaf Capture is upgraded to Snow Leopard.
So IF leaf would never have been taken over by Phase one it would be the same situation.
Leaf however is a NEW COMPANY, not the same company but a new entity.
So as I see it the warranty now is handled by Kodak and not by Leaf Imaging (I could be wrong).
Leaf Imaging is a phase one company.
So they offer an upgrade for user that WANT it, to be able to start using capture one.
You will get a NEW warranty for your old back, let's say you had 2 months left in your warranty you now have a new period.
Imagine your back breaks down after 5 months, now you will have your money back, if not at least you can use Capture one.
For me personally I won't do the upgrade if it's indeed as expensive as mentioned here, I'm more than happy with Leaf Capture for what I do, but I do need a snow leopard version.
I'm more thinking about doing an upgrade to a new back in the future, but I will wait to see what is being released and at which price.
If the price would drop down to a few hunderd I will do the upgrade without thinking about it.
So in my opinion, there's no reason to be panicing.
No one forces anyone to upgrade, you still have your warranty as you would when Leaf was still with Kodak.
I see it as an extra option, you can take it or "leaf" it
noone is forcing noone.
means one can act in business trying to make the last cent and squeezing it out of the clients whenever its possible or one can act with a more broadminded
firm politic. everybody is free to choose its way and so are the customers free to choose the company ( or the photographer ) they want to work with.
i myself choose the last path, means: often i dont count even the A2 prints i give to my clients and nearly always i deliver a bit ( or much ) more than written in my contract,- this is a part of that the customers usually are very content with the work i do for them,- although i am usually not on the cheap side in this business.
i think this is the right way to act if you are on the hi end ( means also expensive ) end of the market, the squeezing mentality may have its room at the cheap side where is no room in the price and to compensate there the dumping calculations.
so out of my personal way i simply cant understand if people or companies act in such way narrow minded as i see it here happening
( once more ...) .
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noone is forcing noone.
means one can act in business trying to make the last cent and squeezing it out of the clients whenever its possible or one can act with a more broadminded
firm politic. everybody is free to choose its way and so are the customers free to choose the company ( or the photographer ) they want to work with.
i myself choose the last path, means: often i dont count even the A2 prints i give to my clients and nearly always i deliver a bit ( or much ) more than written in my contract,- this is a part of that the customers usually are very content with the work i do for them,- although i am usually not on the cheap side in this business.
i think this is the right way to act if you are on the hi end ( means also expensive ) end of the market, the squeezing mentality may have its room at the cheap side where is no room in the price and to compensate there the dumping calculations.
so out of my personal way i simply cant understand if people or companies act in such way narrow minded as i see it here happening
( once more ...) .
Don't get me wrong I agree with you 100% on this one.
I think it would be wise from Leaf Imaging if they would have two options.
1. Only the firmware upgrade for let's say 200-500 US.
2. The firmware upgrade and the extended warranty, so one can choose what they want.
I don't know however if this works because Leaf Imaging is a different company than the old Leaf, so if they would change the firmware of the Leaf Aptus backs, would they still be serviced by Kodak ?
I think that could be the problem they are facing, and have to work out.
Maybe make an option 1B, do the upgrade and loose your warranty.
Trust me, I also don't want to pay preferable, however I do feel that the response now is incredibly harsh in some cases.
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I don't know however if this works because Leaf Imaging is a different company than the old Leaf, so if they would change the firmware of the Leaf Aptus backs, would they still be serviced by Kodak ?
I think that could be the problem they are facing, and have to work out.
Maybe make an option 1B, do the upgrade and loose your warranty.
Trust me, I also don't want to pay preferable, however I do feel that the response now is incredibly harsh in some cases.
i dont think its that way.
most likely only in C1 has to be written that the "old" leaf back files are openeable too, not just the "upgraded" files.
as i see it, everything in the file structure between "upgraded" and not upgraded leaf aptus files will be the same - except the name tag.
if you "upgrade" this name tag in the raw file this will be changed and afterwards C1 recognize the back as a supported back.
they go that way that C1 can know which back is a supported one and which not. If they would act a little bit more friendly to their ( old ) customers they simply write in C1 to open files with the name mark of the new leaf and of the old leaf company, cause there might be not any difference in the file information and structure itself, s in that case even no firmware update will be necessary.
i did not checked these files, but in this way it would make sense for me .....
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Makes sense, but we don't know.
MAYBE there indeed has to be changed something.
I know for example that the Aptus10 files can't be opened with the older versions of Leaf Capture.
But if nothing REALLY has to be changed, I strongly believe that the option should be free, or maybe just buy a key for 25.00 or buy the software or whatever.
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i dont think its that way.
most likely only in C1 has to be written that the "old" leaf back files are openeable too, not just the "upgraded" files.
as i see it, everything in the file structure between "upgraded" and not upgraded leaf aptus files will be the same - except the name tag.
if you "upgrade" this name tag in the raw file this will be changed and afterwards C1 recognize the back as a supported back.
they go that way that C1 can know which back is a supported one and which not. If they would act a little bit more friendly to their ( old ) customers they simply write in C1 to open files with the name mark of the new leaf and of the old leaf company, cause there might be not any difference in the file information and structure itself, s in that case even no firmware update will be necessary.
i did not checked these files, but in this way it would make sense for me .....
In that case, it might be possible to "unlock" any back, to use any software that the photographer might want. Any thoughts?
Kumar
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In that case, it might be possible to "unlock" any back, to use any software that the photographer might want. Any thoughts?
Kumar
it need color and curve adjustments mainly , there is no standard in the files from different backs/ cameras. so the answer is yes and no at the sam time. but this adaptions arent done in the back or camera with fw , they are done in the sw therefor so many cameras can work in C1.
in the case of the aptus backs its different cause the color/ curve adaptions are already done for the new aptus backs.
i dont believe there is any difference between a old leaf and a new leaf aptus II in the files itself except the name tags.
and even if there are some changes the sw easily can be programmed to read and accept these files.
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I think it would be wise from Leaf Imaging if they would have two options.
Sure Frank. Write that check.
I think it would be wise if Phase found a way not to anger their new customers and marginalize medium format even further.
The only price a Leaf owner should pay for the pleasure of using V4 or V5 is the same price a Canon, or Nikon user pays, actually for the Leaf owner it should be half that price cause they won't allow tethering for a while and they do for Canon and Nikon.
For the long time Leaf Aptus owner that suffered through centerfolds, overheating, replaced lcds, overshooting, green previews, non workable wi-fi and a year of LC10, Phase should give them the good Samaritan award and pay them $2,600. (maybe Kodak could chip in half of that).
(If you don't believe the above, go to the way back machine and read the early Aptus comments on the old Leaf-America and Leaf Photography forums that Leaf eventually took down.)
I don't think for a moment it takes a "firmware" upgrade because #1 you don't send your Canon or Nikon into Phase to get it to recognize files and #2 there was some guy on one of these forums with a PC script that changed the file tags from Leaf to Dog or something like that and .mos files ran fine in C-1. #3 RD, Lightroom and Apature don't require a "warranty" to process a Leaf file.
I guess I shouldn't care cause I've been Aptus Free for a while, though if this Phase plan works what's to keep them from going to their "old" legacy backs like the P30, P1, or P45 and wanting $2,600 bucks for a new "warranty" upgrade to continue using the software?
Of course by the time they get around to that those used backs probably won't sell for $2,600.
This corporate line of "if we didn't buy Leaf the owners would be left out" holds no water. Phase bought Leaf with a plan and obviously we are seeing part of it.
If Phase continues with this plan or not is their business but in the end, whether they do it or don't do it, it's pretty freaky that they even thought about it.
IMO
BC
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@Bc,
Please read my whole post.
The two options are a very minor payment for handling (if necessary), I would much rather have it for free just like everyone.
And IF it's possible in the software I think it would be the best solution for Phase one to open it up for the backs.
The other option would be the extended warranty.
I'm not writing a check, my back is almost out of warranty and I'm not interested in an extended warranty, I will upgrade when I see the time fit.
I do want to be able to use Capture one, but not for an amount higher that let's say 200-500 US.
And even then I think it's a big investment for just the use of new software.
But I don't know WHAT they have to change, if it's indeed just a setting for the name of the back it would be ridiculous and it should be free and should be possible with the FW only.
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If Phase continues with this plan or not is their business but in the end, whether they do it or don't do it, it's pretty freaky that they even thought about it.
Phase management gets The Larry David Award. The Larry David Award is given out each year to the company that can alienate their base customers the fastest, and in the largest numbers. Phase clearly deserves the award.
How long have they owned Leaf? Let's just call it "a very short time". So they've taken all that amazing brand loyalty that they accumulated with the Phase brand, and now they infect the Leaf brand with the same qualities.
Congratulations. Just what the market segment needs, to send yet another customer to Nikon.
I'm ordering me one of those James Russell stickers and slap it on my P45+, but it's going to say "Kamikaze brand".
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... You will get a NEW warranty for your old back, let's say you had 2 months left in your warranty you now have a new period.
Imagine your back breaks down after 5 months, now you will have your money back ...
I'm not writing a check, my back is almost out of warranty and I'm not interested in an extended warranty, I will upgrade when I see the time fit.
How do you reconcile these 2 statements? Imagine your back breaks down before you're able to upgrade, won't you "have your money back" if you "upgrade" for $2600?
If they continue with this upgrade policy, and now that there is a new back for $8k, your non-upgraded A22 won't be worth much at all if you want to do an actual upgrade to a newer back ...
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It will be interesting to see what effect this "upgrade" policy and the Aptus II 5 introduction has on prices of A22's and 54s's - if they start selling for $4k or less (without the Phase upgrade) I think I'd prefer to just buy one of those as a backup rather than pay $2600 for an extended warranty.
I predict if this policy goes through anything like it's set up now older Aptus will be clogging the For Sale pages at "best offer" prices, and those owners will switch to Hasselblad or give up MF entirely.
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This may end my romance with MFDB.
I find that I use my Aptus professionaly less and less and less. They are too cumbersome, even for low volume editorial portraits where I generally use window light. I find Portra 800 or TMAX 400 pushed a stop is an easier work flow for me, and I prefer the results. The M8 at 320 is great, 640 and the noise doesn't show when printed on a web press. If low light is really a concern I rent a D3 or a 5D2. My commercial work is mainly motion, but I shoot most of the stills. The M8 does just fine, sometimes film for the look, or I rent a DSLR. When stills are the secondary consideration, I'm not rigging strobes for stills, I'm using what I lit the motion with. Sometimes its a Briese Focus, sometimes a bunch of tungsten hot light, but the Aptus needs so much light that I don't use it. I'd rather slab some CTB on the tungstens and shoot Portra 400.
So Phase wants me to spend $2600, the price of a 5D2, for what amounts to a FW upgrade? Really? So I can use this back that, honestly, does not fit my style or commercial needs anymore? It makes nice files, better than a 5D2, but is so specialized that it is a fish out of water for TODAY's more natural, unlit photographic style. Or my style, anyway.
Nikon, Canon, even Leica don't rawdog their user base like this. Does Hasselblad?
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@asf,
It's an example.
For me however I won't be paying $2600,00 for extended warranty.
I never had a real problem with my back and I just hope that stays that way, and if it breaks down I will see what the costs of repair are and or upgrade or let it be repaired.
And knowing Murphy's law.........
About quiting MF, I will not at the moment.
I love my 5DMKII for some work, but I like the quality of the Aptus22 more on my beauty/fashion work so for me it's still MF that I will be using.
But I understand why some people will not upgrade after their back would not work anymore.
The thing I don't understand is that some people are claiming they will abandon MF now..... that's just weird.
What's changed ?
You can still use what you're using now, and new versions will appear for Snow Leopard, it's not that you're forced to upgrade..... that's the ONLY reason I posted in this conversation at all. Just to give a little reasoning.
Again, I won't be buying extra warranty, simply put because I don't think (hope) I will need it, and I don't find Capture One worth the $2600,00.
IF they would offer it for 200-500 I would upgrade but still would much much rather have it for free or a handling fee and to be 100% honest with the price range the backs were/are I think that this should be a free upgrade.
Don't get the wrong idea, I'm not diving blind into a writing a cheque for who knows what , I'm just pointing out that it's not a forced upgrade and for me no reason at all to drop MF that's just ridiculous. I will keep on using the same old back with the Snow Leopard version of Leaf Capture spitting out the same quality I'm used to.
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The thing I don't understand is that some people are claiming they will abandon MF now..... that's just weird.
What's changed ?
Read the post before yours, and others before that. The world/market/companies/work have all changed.
No one dislikes their backs now, they dislike this attitude from Phase and they just can't work with all the limitations their backs impose on them, esp when the superior quality, while still there, is not necessary.
We can continue with our backs and will, but when it comes time for new equipment where will we go? Pay 2-3x to stay with MFDB and get another Leaf/Phase and use C1? Somehow it's like marrying your ex-wife and continuing the alimony payments ...
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Oh I understand but I don't agree for me personally (on the second line).
I'm owning the 5DMKII and the Leaf on the RZ and 645AFD/III and have to say that in the studio the 5DMKII for me doesn't come close to the quality I get from the Leaf.
Then again, I'm incredibly picky, my customers probably won't see a difference in the end result in most shots, but there are also the special needs that a MF just better suits for example I do a lot of high powered strobe shots on location and often shoot in the range of ISO25 F16-22 and when I would have to shoot that with a DSLR it would give me problems and more DOF. But that's a very specific thing I like to do.
What I do have to admit is that I'm using my 5DMKII on certain jobs more than I did my 5D in the past but still I will probably still buy a new back when my back will break down.
But again that's personal.
I think when you make the PURELY economical calculation MF is indeed a "bad" investment, but on the other hand when you look at the pricing of the modern systems it's not that much higher than a high end DSLR package. I know I bought my RZ complete with all the lenses I need for less than my 5DMKII.
The only big investment would be a digital back and those can be bought for very little used.
I can't shoot everything with the RZ that's 100% true, heck I can shoot very little with it, but for me that little is 70% of what I do so for me it works out fine.
But I also understand that doesn't work for everyone. It's all horses for courses.
The main problem (fun) is that DSLRs are getting so insanely good and having video helps a lot for me that when I would have been NOT using MF at the moment I would probably never felt the need for MF at the moment, but I would also like to add that I would be missing out on the quality.
I love both systems and at the moment could not live without either one.
For the future I hope as all people that there will be a MF back that shoots ISO3200 on at least 22MPs, has multiple AF points, ultra fast AF and no crop all for a price below 20K.
For the time being I will use both systems next to each other.
My opinion on companies is that they should support their clients, don't get me wrong on that issue.
But with Leaf there is a new situation at the moment and I don't know the technical problems, I think that if it were really just a matter of a firmware upgrade they would do it for free.
If not I would indeed agree 100% with everyone and would be upset that I had to pay for it when a newer back could do it without a problem.
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it need color and curve adjustments mainly , there is no standard in the files from different backs/ cameras. so the answer is yes and no at the sam time. but this adaptions arent done in the back or camera with fw , they are done in the sw therefor so many cameras can work in C1.
in the case of the aptus backs its different cause the color/ curve adaptions are already done for the new aptus backs.
i dont believe there is any difference between a old leaf and a new leaf aptus II in the files itself except the name tags.
and even if there are some changes the sw easily can be programmed to read and accept these files.
I agree. That's why I think it's the case of squeezing every possible cent from old clients. The only sensible solution for me in this situation is:
1. deliver last free of charge LC software compatible with Snow Leopard and old Aptus backs
2. client side: make old aptus version owners buy C1 if they want to have up-to-date software for Snow Leopard .company side: make C1 fully compatible with old Aptus backs. make it like +$50 value for old Aptus users so that development cost is fully returned
3. have an option for extended warranty which costs about as much as a mentioned sum, but that's simply new manufacturer's warranty; for the users which need / want a warranty on their equipment, they have an option to follow and both sides are happy
That's the way the matter should be handled to make everyone happy. But yes, this would mean that P1 (or Leaf Imaging / Kodak who knows who's idea/order it is) won't squeeze money for nothing.
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I agree. That's why I think it's the case of squeezing every possible cent from old clients. The only sensible solution for me in this situation is:
1. deliver last free of charge LC software compatible with Snow Leopard and old Aptus backs
2. client side: make old aptus version owners buy C1 if they want to have up-to-date software for Snow Leopard .company side: make C1 fully compatible with old Aptus backs. make it like +$50 value for old Aptus users so that development cost is fully returned
3. have an option for extended warranty which costs about as much as a mentioned sum, but that's simply new manufacturer's warranty; for the users which need / want a warranty on their equipment, they have an option to follow and both sides are happy
That's the way the matter should be handled to make everyone happy. But yes, this would mean that P1 (or Leaf Imaging / Kodak who knows who's idea/order it is) won't squeeze money for nothing.
signed!
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Having used Leaf & following this thread, i talked to a Leaf person here in Sydney who is on the Kodak side. She mentioned that the new Aptus II backs are different from the previous models. what I could understand is that it is not a simple SW issue. It is inside the back HW & they will not work with C1 unless what has been stated here which means money to do so.
At least you have the option to do so.
Denis
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Maybe it's nice to know that the new Snow Leopard Leaf Capture probably version 11.2.9 will be released next week.
It will probably feature enhanced image processing for the 33-56MP backs, enhanced computer speed performance and is free for all Leaf users.
So that's for free :-)
@MC,
It's the same thing I heard and I posted a few posts ago that it could be due to the fact that Kodak services the old backs and Leaf Imaging is a new company.
Imagine what would happen if Kodak would decline repairs because the firmware was changed or something in the hardware, I guess that's why they sell it with a new warranty, in other words the warranty is taken over by Leaf Imaging but that's my own interpretation of course. Personally I would like an option were you can get the upgrade but loose your warranty, I think a lot of Aptus22 backs are already out of warranty.
For me the most important thing is that I can keep using Leaf Capture (that's what I bought the back with and it never was opted that Capture One would EVER work) and with the new improved Leaf Capture coming next week for SL I think the mind of some people will be at ease ?
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For me the most important thing is that I can keep using Leaf Capture (that's what I bought the back with and it never was opted that Capture One would EVER work) and with the new improved Leaf Capture coming next week for SL I think the mind of some people will be at ease ?
Frank, as far as I understand, Phase One will stop development of the Leaf Capture, so the 11.2.9 will be the last release for the digital backs sold when Leaf was a Kodak division.
That is either a cancellation of the Leaf Capture software or no future LC releases for the Leaf/Kodak digital backs.
If this will happen, Leaf backs will not work under future (after Snow Leopard) major releases of MAC OS.
So, I would rather not show enthusiastic support for the Leaf Imagine (P1) plans.
Regards
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Frank, as far as I understand, Phase One will stop development of the Leaf Capture, so the 11.2.9 will be the last release for the digital backs sold when Leaf was a Kodak division.
That is either a cancellation of the Leaf Capture software or no future LC releases for the Leaf/Kodak digital backs.
If this will happen, Leaf backs will not work under future (after Snow Leopard) major releases of MAC OS.
So, I would rather not show enthusiastic support for the Leaf Imagine (P1) plans.
Regards
As far as I was told Leaf Imaging is trying to keep LC alive as long as possible. There might be a cancellation through P1 in the future, but definitly not before the Leaf backs will be able to tether to C1. I won´t buy an update to use C1, even if I will be stucked in 2010 with future software updates, the tif files processed will be readable in future OSs. Leaf should create new backs with new functions and may be an ever bigger sized sensor (not for the MPX-Race but for rendering the bigger size of MF), that´s the way I would like to "update".
Cheers
Ulf
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Don't know told you that LC will be cancelled, what I heard is that they will continue as long as possible and that the SL version is not the last. That's why I posted in this thread about not having to upgrade if they would stop now the story also for me would be different although with a dual boot everything is solved.
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The thing I don't understand is that some people are claiming they will abandon MF now..... that's just weird.
What's changed ?
Hey Frank,
Its the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. That's all. I wrote above why the backs don't fit my workflow or style anymore. In order to be workable I need semi clean 800. The P30+ was hit or miss at 800. It was hit or miss at 400, but more hit than miss. The P65 looks like it makes a nice 800 iso file, at 15 megapix. But so did my 1ds2. The P65 is $40k+, to do what a $2k (used) 1ds2 could do handily. I know IQ is better, but for small print, web and broadcast, come one. If I want the MF look, I can shoot film, get a better and more pronouced MF look. Or shoot 4x5.
If I were still shooting beauty, I would no doubt use a back. But for everything else I do, dslr, M8, or film does it all, cheaper, with less pain in the ass factor.
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Hey Frank,
Its the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. That's all. I wrote above why the backs don't fit my workflow or style anymore. In order to be workable I need semi clean 800. The P30+ was hit or miss at 800. It was hit or miss at 400, but more hit than miss. The P65 looks like it makes a nice 800 iso file, at 15 megapix. But so did my 1ds2. The P65 is $40k+, to do what a $2k (used) 1ds2 could do handily. I know IQ is better, but for small print, web and broadcast, come one. If I want the MF look, I can shoot film, get a better and more pronouced MF look. Or shoot 4x5.
If I were still shooting beauty, I would no doubt use a back. But for everything else I do, dslr, M8, or film does it all, cheaper, with less pain in the ass factor.
Without a doubt you are right.
My workflow is however 90% working with strobes and shooting at ISO100 as a max so for me it's a different story.
Heck when I go above ISO200 I immediately take out my DSLR, they are great for that.
I think it's like it has always been, horses for courses.
I really don't like my 5DMKII at f16 and above to be honest and I love it at f2.8-f8.0
The good thing is you can switch as much as you want, I shoot some sessions with both cameras next to each other, some available light with the DSLR and the strobe shots with MF, both tethered to the same laptop.
IF one would indeed do a lot of work with available light, location work and stuff that needs to go fast indeed now a days the DSLR is more than capable.
To be honest I really would not know IF I would have switched if I had to do it now....
Probably would if I had seen the quality, but I'm afraid I never would have even tried out the quality because I could live with the 5DMKII at the moment.
But now that I am shooting MF and have my system complete and know the quality I'm not selling it any day soon, unless....... the 5DMKIII is much better with less difraction
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How is it everyone knows so much about the Leaf software and upgrades but neither Leaf or Phase One has anything to say? Will the next LC11 fix the gain adjuster bug?
Maybe it's nice to know that the new Snow Leopard Leaf Capture probably version 11.2.9 will be released next week.
It will probably feature enhanced image processing for the 33-56MP backs, enhanced computer speed performance and is free for all Leaf users.
So that's for free :-)
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I see the new C1 Pro 5 is out, will it work with the Aptus 75 files or not?
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I see the new C1 Pro 5 is out, will it work with the Aptus 75 files or not?
Well I can't even get a connection to the phase download page ^^
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Well.. not surprisingly, the release version of 5.0 doesn't support legacy Leaf files.
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No legacy Leaf files will work in Capture One, now or in the future.
well.. this hadn't quite been fully established. There was a 'wait.. we made a mistake, and we're re-thinking our position' posting by Leaf. Reading of legacy Leaf files is *not* dependent upon a firmware upgrade. They support every other Raw format on the planet. If they're already supporting the 'new' Leaf .mos files, then there is *no* additional software development effort to do this. This is a marketing decision to motivate older users to buy warranty services. This is separate from 'we will support the backs' from a technical/physical support perspective.
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well.. this hadn't quite been fully established. There was a 'wait.. we made a mistake, and we're re-thinking our position' posting by Leaf. Reading of legacy Leaf files is *not* dependent upon a firmware upgrade. They support every other Raw format on the planet. If they're already supporting the 'new' Leaf .mos files, then there is *no* additional software development effort to do this. This is a marketing decision to motivate older users to buy warranty services. This is separate from 'we will support the backs' from a technical/physical support perspective.
... which was just confirmed in a thread Yair posted. Legacy Leaf files *will* be supported starting in the next release (minor) of Capture One 5 (so.. probably 5.1). Separating this from the Leaf back warranty makes perfect sense (well.. at least from a customer view )
Thanks for your effort in all of this Yair!
jim
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well.. this hadn't quite been fully established. There was a 'wait.. we made a mistake, and we're re-thinking our position' posting by Leaf. Reading of legacy Leaf files is *not* dependent upon a firmware upgrade. They support every other Raw format on the planet. If they're already supporting the 'new' Leaf .mos files, then there is *no* additional software development effort to do this. This is a marketing decision to motivate older users to buy warranty services. This is separate from 'we will support the backs' from a technical/physical support perspective.
Hi,
Yair started that new post. Take a look, what is written in the news section: "In addition, file support for all Leaf Aptus backs will be added in the next version of Capture One PRO."
Future development of LC will continue at the moment, even our very old Valeo22 Back is still working with LC11! If you wish to use C1, go and buy it like the Nikon, Canon users have to, too. I´m not keen on C1. For us there is no reason to complain now.
The only thing that is not answered yet is what is with pixjohn´s gain adjuster.
Cheers
Ulf
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This makes no sense, I would think selling $400 copies of C1 Pro 5 would bring in additional revenue? If LC 11 is not a long term software most users would buy the software. 2000 - 5000 users at $400 is a chunk of change.
Sure, someone at Leaf at or Phase may change their mind, but I doubt it because as he said, they have no intentions of testing every back, every file from every Leaf to work with Capture One in multiple OS's on multiple platforms. All that is time and money with no return to them.
If things have truly changed, then wonderful, but I doubt they are. Their finance guru is the one running the numbers on everything as explained. So I don't see how anything has changed on the back end.
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Thank you for pointing this out, because the old Leaf and new leaf could careless. I talked to a Lawyer and he is looking into what legal remidies I have. I feel lied to and screwed. I bought the Leaf Aptus back based on shooting tethered with the use of the gain adjuster. If anyone wants to look up the past years of post regarding this topic you will have lots to read. Other photographers where smarter and returned the Leaf backs for full refunds because it did not work.
Hi,
Yair started that new post. Take a look, what is written in the news section: "In addition, file support for all Leaf Aptus backs will be added in the next version of Capture One PRO."
Future development of LC will continue at the moment, even our very old Valeo22 Back is still working with LC11! If you wish to use C1, go and buy it like the Nikon, Canon users have to, too. I´m not keen on C1. For us there is no reason to complain now.
The only thing that is not answered yet is what is with pixjohn´s gain adjuster.
Cheers
Ulf
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pixjohn can you explain again what is not working with the gain adjuster?
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I personally don't know who in the hell would pay $400 for CO. I bought a license some 5 years ago with the multi upgrade path at that time. I still have one or two more full upgrades left which might go another 2-4 years. After that, I would probably not buy a new version, it's not worth that money to me. Lightroom is ten times the app and at less cost and only gets better. CO sort of improves but seems to go backwards sometimes. I am amazed that CO 5 is out. I demoed CO 5 at PhotoPlus, it needed a helluva lot of work to make that for prime time.
And I find the Phase software developers to be smart but clueless to how their app is used and what functions work in the real world the way they think it should. I have a laundry list of things in CO 4.8.3 that just make me bang my head against a wall. I guess users don't actually push buttons or move sliders to see what works and was only half thought about.
I believe it's unrealistic to think that legacy Leaf owners would buy a license to CO Pro. I would bet at best 5%. And while Leaf does sell plenty of backs, they don't sell anywhere the volume of Phase and many owners are repeats. It would be fascinating to see how many actual Leaf owners there are currently. I owned one and did enjoy using it, but it just doesn't fit my needs for now, so it was sold.
Well.. Legacy Leaf owner here (75s).. *love* the back and the files it produces.
I've been a CO user/owner since it was first introduced. The workflow has always been a little off... but it has always produced the best output from any raw converter (at least for Canon 1ds, 1dsmk2, Nikon D3, Leica M8 files). For the most part, I use Lightroom for image organization, printing and quick web page output, and quick RAW conversions. For portfolio images, I put them thru CO (and then import and stack them in Lightroom). I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with Leaf files (although LC has always produced the best Raw output for them.. over Lightroom and Raw Developer)
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And I find the Phase software developers to be smart but clueless to how their app is used and what functions work in the real world the way they think it should. I have a laundry list of things in CO 4.8.3 that just make me bang my head against a wall. I guess users don't actually push buttons or move sliders to see what works and was only half thought about.
John:
Quite a few of the suggestions we received from end users were implemented in Capture One 5 (and in some of the incremental updates to CO 4). If you do have a list, would love to go through it with you. It's proven beneficial in the past.
Thanks,
Steve Hendrix
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See thread (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=38796&view=findpost&p=320768)
pixjohn can you explain again what is not working with the gain adjuster?
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See thread (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=38796&view=findpost&p=320768)
Can you post a screen shot of the histogram in LC of the gain files you are shooting?
In your old post you state you open 2 stops and pop a strobe at the lens. I'd be surprised if that gave you consistent usable gain files.
I've shot gain files using a strobe shot at the lens and if I'm not careful with the exposure it can give strange results when applied.
I've never had to use a gain of more than 50%, usually much less is more than adequate.
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Pixjohn: from your pink thread - "Hi Yair, I have no way of knowing with interior shots and strobes if I am shooting the gain file at +2. My work flow to shoot the gain file is to open up 2 stops and shoot a mini strobe directly at the white disc on the lens."
Are you opening the aperture 2 stops? I'd think so if you're popping a strobe at it. If so that can cause problems as the gain file has to be made at the same F-stop as the file you're applying it to.
The histogram in Leaf Capture is what you have to use to judge your gain file exposure. The right side shouldn't be above +2.3 or so, and not below +1.5
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The histogram runs about +1 to +2. The software will not allow you to shoot brighter or darker files. LC 11 will only let me correct falloff at 15% - 35% with the 24xl? I am shooting tomorrow and will take a snap shot of the gain file.
Pixjohn: from your pink thread - "Hi Yair, I have no way of knowing with interior shots and strobes if I am shooting the gain file at +2. My work flow to shoot the gain file is to open up 2 stops and shoot a mini strobe directly at the white disc on the lens."
Are you opening the aperture 2 stops? I'd think so if you're popping a strobe at it. If so that can cause problems as the gain file has to be made at the same F-stop as the file you're applying it to.
The histogram in Leaf Capture is what you have to use to judge your gain file exposure. The right side shouldn't be above +2.3 or so, and not below +1.5
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I'd suggest using a different method for making your gain files. Don't use the ministrobe unless you absolutely have to. Indirect light is best. Leave the aperture at the same place.
The histogram should be a nice sharp edged column with the right side stopping between +2 and +2.3 .
I rarely use the integrated Gain Adjuster but when I have it has worked fine. I've seen magenta problems but only from files where I've used strobe into the lens for the gain or the light source used for the gain was very different to the light source of the shot I'm applying it to.
Good luck.
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Leaf 11.2.9 is coming
good news
"Leaf is committed to continue to support customers through Leaf Capture software. Leaf Capture will continue to be updated moving forward, supporting enhanced image quality, new products, and delivering the best possible user experience."
another nice promise - the future will tell
new version of capture one will work with older leaf backs in the future
with or without the 2600$ upgrade/guarantee program?
compatibility of leaf shutter lenses with afd III
still waiting for a clear statement
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new version of capture one will work with older leaf backs in the future
with or without the 2600$ upgrade/guarantee program?
File compatibility - yes, confirmed. Tethering suport, not confirmed.
Steve Hendrix
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Just a little more information regarding the immanent release of Leaf Capture 11.2.9 and Capture One Version 5
Leaf Capture 11.29 & Capture One Verison 5 (http://www.peartreerental.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1256821275&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&)