Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: PLLove on October 01, 2009, 04:10:18 pm

Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: PLLove on October 01, 2009, 04:10:18 pm
Just received my Sony A900, 135 f1.8 CZ, and 85 f.14CZ.  Overall, the build quality of the lens are 2nd to none!!  I haven't seen craftsmanship in 35mm for a long long time!  The build quality is much better than the much more expensive Mamiya/Hasselblad gear that I have used.  Excellent job Sony!  I can't wait to try it out this weekend.  I have a gig on Sunday, so I plan to give it a run then.    

Ok, one question.  Why in the hell can't my pocketwizards work on this w/o a $100 adapter?  That's horrible Sony!    

Hence, my mixed feelings!    

I will purchase the $100 adapter today, and give it a run in the studio before my gigs on Sunday.  Hopefully, the image quality will quickly make me forget about throwing money down the drain on this adapter.

Pat
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: alain on October 01, 2009, 04:40:03 pm
Quote from: PLLove
Just received my Sony A900, 135 f1.8 CZ, and 85 f.14CZ.  Overall, the build quality of the lens are 2nd to none!!  I haven't seen craftsmanship in 35mm for a long long time!  The build quality is much better than the much more expensive Mamiya/Hasselblad gear that I have used.  Excellent job Sony!  I can't wait to try it out this weekend.  I have a gig on Sunday, so I plan to give it a run then.    

Ok, one question.  Why in the hell can't my pocketwizards work on this w/o a $100 adapter?  That's horrible Sony!    

Hence, my mixed feelings!    

I will purchase the $100 adapter today, and give it a run in the studio before my gigs on Sunday.  Hopefully, the image quality will quickly make me forget about throwing money down the drain on this adapter.

Pat
Hi

Some other solutions :

http://www.safe-sync.com/fs-1100_fs1100_FA-ST1AM.htm (http://www.safe-sync.com/fs-1100_fs1100_FA-ST1AM.htm)

A FS-1100 clone would be much cheaper.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: PLLove on October 01, 2009, 04:48:43 pm
Quote from: alain
Hi

Some other solutions :

http://www.safe-sync.com/fs-1100_fs1100_FA-ST1AM.htm (http://www.safe-sync.com/fs-1100_fs1100_FA-ST1AM.htm)

A FS-1100 clone would be much cheaper.

No difference in price for off-brand solution.  I heard that there was a solution in the $25 price point.

I'm getting the Sony....one time expense, and I know it works.

-PL
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: alain on October 01, 2009, 04:55:13 pm
Quote from: PLLove
No difference in price for off-brand solution.  I heard that there was a solution in the $25 price point.

I'm getting the Sony....one time expense, and I know it works.

-PL

Just check first, there's a flah sync on camera:  a little bit above the lens release button.

There are $25 fs-1100 clones around, google a bit.

edit : The fs-1100 clones are usefull to get the remotes on camera instead of connected by cable.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: Brammers on October 01, 2009, 04:57:00 pm
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Flash-Hotshoe-Ad...id=p3286.c0.m14 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Flash-Hotshoe-Adapter-Minolta-Dynax-Sony-Alpha-UK_W0QQitemZ120453143860QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CamerasPhoto_CameraAccessories_CameraFlashUnits_JN?hash=item1c0b911d34&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)

That's the alternative if you want it - at that price you can have a couple.  For versions wherever you are just google 'Minolta hotshoe adapter'.  Maybe get one even if you do get the Sony, just in case the Sony fails.  They (probably) don't have the isolation circuits in them that the Sony does, so no 1960s Vivitars on the knock-off hotshoe converters.

Only telephoto lenses?  What are you using for your normal shooting - or do you only do telephoto?  How do you find the AF on the 85?  I've not heard amazing things...  Got the 135 myself and it's acceptable, although I wish it was SSM.

Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: douglasf13 on October 01, 2009, 07:08:30 pm
I've had great luck with these generic hotshoe adapters.   link: (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Flash-Hotshoe-Adapter-F-Sony-A100-A200-Fs-1100-A900-CM5_W0QQitemZ370222654856QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL?hash=item5632fd6588&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)


  The cheap ebay ones above have died on me.  Either way, for $10, you can get two or three to be safe.  I wouldn't spend the $100 on the Sony ones.  Rip off.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: douglasf13 on October 01, 2009, 07:09:36 pm
Quote from: Brammers
Only telephoto lenses?  What are you using for your normal shooting - or do you only do telephoto?  How do you find the AF on the 85?  I've not heard amazing things...  Got the 135 myself and it's acceptable, although I wish it was SSM.

  The 85ZA AF isn't fast, although I guess it's faster than the 85L.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: PLLove on October 01, 2009, 07:42:22 pm
The 85mm is ok.  It's faster than all of my mamiya lens!
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: K.C. on October 02, 2009, 03:50:27 am
I'm on the fence between the A900 and the A850. One of them will be in my hands soon so that I can use those wonderful Zeiss lenses.

I'm curious if you considered the A850 ?

Any chance you'll have an opportunity to compare the Sony/Zeiss 85 to the Canon 85 L ?
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: PLLove on October 02, 2009, 07:44:04 am
Quote from: K.C.
I'm on the fence between the A900 and the A850. One of them will be in my hands soon so that I can use those wonderful Zeiss lenses.

I'm curious if you considered the A850 ?

Any chance you'll have an opportunity to compare the Sony/Zeiss 85 to the Canon 85 L ?

I went with the A900 because of the better build quality.  Since I only have Mamiya and Nikon equipment, I can only compare with those.  I will say that the build quality of the 84 1.4CZ is better than the Nikon 1.4 version.

I almost feel like apologizing to Sony for sleeping on their equipment for sooo long!  I guess I never envisioned them as a major player.  That's what happens when you take the blinders off!!    

-PL
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: jasonrandolph on October 02, 2009, 12:04:36 pm
A major factor in my decision on whether or not to switch when I move to full-frame is lens availability and cost.  I did some research last night, and it turns out that a Zeiss (not Sony) 70-200mm f/2.8 is cheaper than the same Nikon lens.  Considering that the A850 is significantly cheaper than a D3x, and I hardly even shoot above ISO 400, I think Sony is the way to go.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: douglasf13 on October 02, 2009, 01:15:07 pm
Quote from: PLLove
I went with the A900 because of the better build quality.  Since I only have Mamiya and Nikon equipment, I can only compare with those.  I will say that the build quality of the 84 1.4CZ is better than the Nikon 1.4 version.

I almost feel like apologizing to Sony for sleeping on their equipment for sooo long!  I guess I never envisioned them as a major player.  That's what happens when you take the blinders off!!    

-PL


 FWIW, the build quality of the A850 and A900 is identical.  There is only a slight difference in the finish.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: PLLove on October 02, 2009, 02:42:46 pm
The viewfinder is not the same.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: K.C. on October 02, 2009, 05:04:31 pm
Quote from: PLLove
The viewfinder is not the same.

True, it's only 98% on the A850.

I'm still undecided because I have a feeling we'll see and A950 before too long with some refinements over the A900.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: aaykay on October 02, 2009, 05:47:32 pm
Quote from: PLLove
The viewfinder is not the same.

Agreed.  The 100% OVF of the A900 is larger than even the 100% OVF of the Nikon D3X/D3 or the Canon 1DSMKII (the Canon 1DSMKIII's OVF is slightly larger than the A900).  

However,  I personally would have bought the A850 for a $1000 reduction in cost over the A900, if both of them were available when I bought my A900 almost exactly a year back.....even at the expense of losing that wonderful 100% view and going down to a 98% view.  I never use the 5FPS of the A900 either and the 3FPS of the A850 would serve my purposes.

I plan to add an A850 as a backup to the A900, by the end of the year.

Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: douglasf13 on October 03, 2009, 10:18:44 am
Quote from: PLLove
The viewfinder is not the same.

Gotacha, I thought you were talking about the camera materials.

Aaykay, it should probably also be mentioned that the A900 vf, while minutely smaller than the 1dsiii's vf, is brighter with less distortion. Sony worked some magic with the lenses in the eye piece.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: Alex MacPherson on October 03, 2009, 11:47:08 am
Even though I am sticking with Canon for the time-being, I am thrilled that there is
finally a worthy competitor to Canon/Nikon.

Kudos to Sony
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: ErikKaffehr on October 03, 2009, 12:55:58 pm
Hi,

Sorry, where did you find that Zeiss 70-200/2.8 ?!

Never heard of it, but perhaps I missed som recent development.

Best regards
Erik

Quote from: jasonrandolph
A major factor in my decision on whether or not to switch when I move to full-frame is lens availability and cost.  I did some research last night, and it turns out that a Zeiss (not Sony) 70-200mm f/2.8 is cheaper than the same Nikon lens.  Considering that the A850 is significantly cheaper than a D3x, and I hardly even shoot above ISO 400, I think Sony is the way to go.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: douglasf13 on October 04, 2009, 10:51:45 am
Quote from: ErikKaffehr
Hi,

Sorry, where did you find that Zeiss 70-200/2.8 ?!

Never heard of it, but perhaps I missed som recent development.

Best regards
Erik

Yeah, the 70-200 is still Sony, and the 24-70 is Zeiss.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: Paul Kerfoot on October 05, 2009, 07:31:28 am
Hi Patrick

Its the same old Sony proprietary mind set dating back to Betamax, its a marketing strategy designed to force you to buy only from them (at a much higher price) and thereby make your money their money.  The inkjet printer manufacturers are especially rapacious; they do it via very small chipped ink cartridges at an exorbitant cost per milliliter and waste much of that with cleaning cycles.   The latest wrinkle is to force customers to use only proprietary lithium batteries in their cameras.

Sorry to bum you out.

Paul
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: Rob C on October 05, 2009, 08:12:55 am
Quote from: Paul Kerfoot
Hi Patrick

Its the same old Sony proprietary mind set dating back to Betamax, its a marketing strategy designed to force you to buy only from them (at a much higher price) and thereby make your money their money.  The inkjet printer manufacturers are especially rapacious; they do it via very small chipped ink cartridges at an exorbitant cost per milliliter and waste much of that with cleaning cycles.   The latest wrinkle is to force customers to use only proprietary lithium batteries in their cameras.

Sorry to bum you out.

Paul




Paul, you have just underlined the marketing ethic by which, willy-nilly, we live and die.

There are those who believe - or at least say that they do - that business is more than the transfer of your funds from your bank into my bank, but the older I get the more convinced I am that to think other than as the cynic is to be wearing the rosy tinteds on a rainy day. Which, indirectly, makes me think of Bob Dylan and his wet women.

Rob C
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: pegelli on October 05, 2009, 09:13:42 am
Quote from: Paul Kerfoot
Its the same old Sony proprietary mind set dating back to Betamax, its a marketing strategy designed to force you to buy only from them (at a much higher price) and thereby make your money their money.

Just to get the facts straight, the proprietary flash shoe and very expensive adapters to use generic trigger/slave combinations was inherited from Minolta. Not that it makes any difference in te end result today and if Sony wished they could have changed it.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: alain on October 05, 2009, 04:33:01 pm
Quote from: pegelli
Just to get the facts straight, the proprietary flash shoe and very expensive adapters to use generic trigger/slave combinations was inherited from Minolta. Not that it makes any difference in te end result today and if Sony wished they could have changed it.

I'm quite happy that Sony kept the "better" minolta flash shoe, it's far easier to handle a flash.  For remote triggers there are quite some adaptors and when looking around for a very cheap price.  I even find a remote trigger with adaptor easier, but that's because the better handling of the minolta flash shoe.  

BTW. I've seen one for €17 incl. shipping in europe.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: alain on October 06, 2009, 01:44:49 am
Quote from: EPd
...
Why one would want a shoe adapter to get X-sync is beyond my comprehension: A900 and A850 both have an X-sync contact on the body. Can anyone explain why an adapter is preferable? I don't suppose those Pocket Wizards need TTL functionality to fire a set of studio strobes? (In the studio I use an IR flash to fire my monoblocks via the X-sync. The IR flash, with a standard shoe, sits on an old bracket screwed to the bottom of my A900.)

Having a radio trigger on the hotshoe is quite handy, but most of them can be connected by the X-sync contact.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: pegelli on October 06, 2009, 01:50:27 am
Quote from: EPd
I second that! When in the heat of the work mounting a flash to the Minolta/Sony shoe can be done much quicker and more secure than with the old shoe.

Why one would want a shoe adapter to get X-sync is beyond my comprehension: A900 and A850 both have an X-sync contact on the body. Can anyone explain why an adapter is preferable? I don't suppose those Pocket Wizards need TTL functionality to fire a set of studio strobes? (In the studio I use an IR flash to fire my monoblocks via the X-sync. The IR flash, with a standard shoe, sits on an old bracket screwed to the bottom of my A900.)

I can see your first point, but probably subjective since people ususally like what they're used to. I don't mind the proprietary hot shoe other than that I also need an adapter to attach a spirit level.

Second point, I agree for the A900 and A850 (and even the A700) but the cheaper Sony models do not have an X-sync on the body so having it on the adapter is the only way to use X-sync with those bodies.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: douglasf13 on October 06, 2009, 05:44:50 am
Pegelli, there are Sony mount spirit levels available:  http://cgi.ebay.com/Triple-3-Axis-Bubble-S...id=p3286.c0.m14 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Triple-3-Axis-Bubble-Spirit-Level-for-Sony-and-Minolta_W0QQitemZ260479285136QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca5c67790&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)

As far as pocket wizards are concerned, I prefer mounting to the hotshoe, rather than dealing with cables and xsync, but it's much ado over a $10 adapter.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: pegelli on October 06, 2009, 05:54:51 am
Quote from: douglasf13
Pegelli, there are Sony mount spirit levels available:  http://cgi.ebay.com/Triple-3-Axis-Bubble-S...id=p3286.c0.m14 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Triple-3-Axis-Bubble-Spirit-Level-for-Sony-and-Minolta_W0QQitemZ260479285136QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca5c67790&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)

Thanks for that link. I think I'll order one.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: tkarlmann on October 06, 2009, 08:45:56 pm
Quote from: PLLove
Just received my Sony A900, 135 f1.8 CZ, and 85 f.14CZ.  Overall, the build quality of the lens are 2nd to none!!  I haven't seen craftsmanship in 35mm for a long long time!  The build quality is much better than the much more expensive Mamiya/Hasselblad gear that I have used.  Excellent job Sony!  I can't wait to try it out this weekend.  I have a gig on Sunday, so I plan to give it a run then.    

Ok, one question.  Why in the hell can't my pocketwizards work on this w/o a $100 adapter?  That's horrible Sony!    

Hence, my mixed feelings!    

I will purchase the $100 adapter today, and give it a run in the studio before my gigs on Sunday.  Hopefully, the image quality will quickly make me forget about throwing money down the drain on this adapter.

Pat

There is another solution!  I have used Minolta cameras and Pocket Wizards professionally for years.  

The way a did it was a little bit involved, but far less costly.  
 1) Go and look at cables -- cannot remember the brand, but I think it is Paramount.  They do custom cables
 2) Either purchase a dumb FS1100 or use velcro patches.  There is no need to use the hot shoe.
 3) Put you camera system together and figure out the shortest cable to get from where your pocket wizard is to where your PC sysnc socket is on the camera
 4) Try the 'system' out with a standard-length cable.  
 5) If it works for you, get several custom cables from Paramount.

I always disliked the non-standard hot shoe myself.  However my method of solving the problem has worked well for over 100 weddings.

Thom
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: BrianSmith on October 08, 2009, 05:22:44 pm
Quote from: PLLove
Ok, one question.  Why in the hell can't my pocketwizards work on this w/o a $100 adapter?  That's horrible Sony!    

Pat

Pat,

Sony's proprietary hotshoe has to do with backwards compatibility for Minolta users. Kind of a no-win situation. Change it and they piss off existing users. Leave it as is and you need an adapter which pisses off everyone changing over from another brand.

I'm using Sony's adapters with my a900s, but if you're using Pocket Wizards the $10 ebay specials will work just as well. The Sony's adapter also regulate the sync voltage, which you only need if you're using another brand of on-camera flash.

Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: K.C. on October 09, 2009, 12:54:53 am
Quote from: BrianSmith
Sony's proprietary hotshoe has to do with backwards compatibility for Minolta users. Kind of a no-win situation. Change it and they piss off existing users...

Backwards compatibility with what, a few outdated Minolta flash units ?


Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: pegelli on October 09, 2009, 01:34:32 am
Quote from: K.C.
Backwards compatibility with what, a few outdated Minolta flash units ?

The Minolta 3600 HSD and 5600 HSD were identical (form and function) to to the Sony HVL 36AM and Sony HVL 56AM.
Only quite recently these have been replaced by the newer 42AM and 58AM.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: Prognathous on October 09, 2009, 03:20:23 am
Quote from: BrianSmith
Sony's proprietary hotshoe has to do with backwards compatibility for Minolta users. Kind of a no-win situation. Change it and they piss off existing users. Leave it as is and you need an adapter which pisses off everyone changing over from another brand.

Sony needs to improve its marketing. They should educate users of other brands about the superiority of the Minolta-type hot-shoe (http://keppler.popphoto.com/blog/2007/01/shoe_fetish.html). They shouldn't consider going back to the archaic ISO-type shoe. It was a PITA to use.

Prog.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: K.C. on October 10, 2009, 01:18:02 am
Quote from: pegelli
The Minolta 3600 HSD and 5600 HSD were identical (form and function) to to the Sony HVL 36AM and Sony HVL 56AM.
Only quite recently these have been replaced by the newer 42AM and 58AM.

So 4 flashes that are no longer in production will be made obsolete. Seems like a reasonable cost of progress. That is, assuming that changing to the ISO standard would be progress
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: pegelli on October 10, 2009, 02:42:07 am
Quote from: K.C.
So 4 flashes that are no longer in production will be made obsolete. Seems like a reasonable cost of progress. That is, assuming that changing to the ISO standard would be progress

Today yes, but then it would also make the 42 and 58 obsolete that have been released in the previous year

When the first Sony came out (A100) it would have made all 4 "current models" obsolete (KM's were still widely available).

And btw, a lot of older flashes also fit, they will only be missing the automatic TTL function and can only be used at ratio power steps.

I'm not putting any value judgement on whether the KM/Sony is better or worse than ISO shoes, I think they both have their merits and drawbacks.
I'm just saying that making a switch is always painful and will always piss off people who invested in the then obsolete type.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: Prognathous on October 10, 2009, 03:47:45 am
Quote from: K.C.
So 4 flashes that are no longer in production will be made obsolete. Seems like a reasonable cost of progress. That is, assuming that changing to the ISO standard would be progress


Switching back to a slow, inconvenient and insecure shoe (which dates back to 1913) is not progress. It's anti-progress.

Prog.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: alain on October 10, 2009, 05:49:46 am
Quote from: K.C.
So 4 flashes that are no longer in production will be made obsolete. Seems like a reasonable cost of progress. That is, assuming that changing to the ISO standard would be progress

Well Sony has a few new flashes...  The minolta/Sony shoe is far easier and safer.  Sony would solve some beginners problems with making a FS1100 available themself's.

It would be a nice move from Sony to give a spirit level with new camera's, or provide dealers with them to give as freebee to good costumers.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: aaykay on October 10, 2009, 04:07:29 pm
Quote from: K.C.
So 4 flashes that are no longer in production will be made obsolete. Seems like a reasonable cost of progress. That is, assuming that changing to the ISO standard would be progress

They don't need to be made obsolete but can be made to function just fine, with an adapter.  I personally would like to move away from the superior but not-used-anywhere-or-by-anyone-else model of hotshoe that Sony inherited from Minolta.  That will open out a lot of doors when it comes to 3rd party lighting products for the Sony/Alpha system, without having to use kludgy adapters.

Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: aaykay on October 10, 2009, 04:21:07 pm
Quote from: Prognathous
Switching back to a slow, inconvenient and insecure shoe (which dates back to 1913) is not progress. It's anti-progress.

Prog.

Argument is very true, if the only products that would mount on the camera are the few flashes that the manufacturer comes up with for the mount.  Unfortunately, once you get into the professional space, dozens and dozens of lighting products are all built around the "inferior" but univerally applicable ISO mount.  

So when they came up with the "superior" ISO mount, if they were able to influence the other players also into moving toward it, then I would have been wholeheartedly supportive of the flash-mount that Sony inherited.  Unfortunately, moving unilaterally into a totally different model (regardless of how "superior" it may be), with not a single other manufacturer (or 3rd party manufacturer of lighting products)  following along, ESPECIALLY when you are a minnow in the larger scheme of things (as Minolta was), is not a recipe I personally would support.

Sony's memory stick may be superior in several respects to other flash memory devices but how supportive would the marketplace be, if Sony unilaterally adopted it across the board, REPLACING CF-cards and other memory media in their cameras ? Same philosophy at work here.  

Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: alain on October 10, 2009, 05:30:43 pm
Quote from: aaykay
They don't need to be made obsolete but can be made to function just fine, with an adapter.  I personally would like to move away from the superior but not-used-anywhere-or-by-anyone-else model of hotshoe that Sony inherited from Minolta.  That will open out a lot of doors when it comes to 3rd party lighting products for the Sony/Alpha system, without having to use kludgy adapters.

Strangly enough I find some 3rd party lighting product easier to use with an adaptor, just a better connection to the camera.  The only thing that's maybe not easier is having a heavy flash on camera with an adaptor, but thoses flashes are not compatible with the "automatic" flash system anyway.  Just like placing a modern Canon flash on a Nikon camera.

The increased sales from Sony will make even more third party products with the better flash shoe.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: Prognathous on October 10, 2009, 06:56:28 pm
Quote from: aaykay
I personally would like to move away from the superior but not-used-anywhere-or-by-anyone-else model of hotshoe that Sony inherited from Minolta.  That will open out a lot of doors when it comes to 3rd party lighting products for the Sony/Alpha system, without having to use kludgy adapters.

So you'd rather have the vast majority of Sony's user-base be forced to use a poor solution just so that you won't need to buy adapters? I think Sony is smart enough to weigh the benefits to their various user sectors. In short, the Minolta-type shoe isn't going away any time soon.

Quote from: aaykay
Argument is very true, if the only products that would mount on the camera are the few flashes that the manufacturer comes up with for the mount.  Unfortunately, once you get into the professional space, dozens and dozens of lighting products are all built around the "inferior" but univerally applicable ISO mount.

This may be so, but the "professional space" is a tiny minority when it comes to Sony's user-base. Why make everyone else suffer? Not only that, but pros can afford to permanently attach a $7 adapter to each of their units, making them much easier to use than with an ISO kludge on both sides.

Quote
Sony's memory stick may be superior in several respects to other flash memory devices but how supportive would the marketplace be, if Sony unilaterally adopted it across the board, REPLACING CF-cards and other memory media in their cameras ? Same philosophy at work here.

Bad example. The Minolta-type shoe has many real advantages over the ISO shoe. Memory sticks don't have any advantages over SD cards (which should IMHO, as a Minolta and Olympus user, replace CF cards). The benefit in going from CF to Memory sticks just isn't there, which is why no-one is advocating it. When it comes to flash hot-shoes, most Minolta and Sony users will be happy to explain to you why they wouldn't move back to the ISO shoe. Most of the whining comes from users of other systems who see this as a disadvantage worth picking on, while they're actually just being ignorant about the facts. Some Alpha-mount newcomers may take a while to grow and like something better than they're used to, but I'm sure eventually most of them will.

Prog.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: Quentin on October 11, 2009, 06:02:53 am
I agree that regardless of the theoretical advantages of the Sony/Monolta hotshoe, Sony should have dumped it and reverted to the standard ISO arrangement when they took the brand over.  I use the Sony Adapter which is OK, but its a kludgy solution.  Unfortunately I suspect we are stuck with it  

Quentin
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: Prognathous on October 11, 2009, 07:06:44 am
Quote from: Quentin
I use the Sony Adapter which is OK, but its a kludgy solution.

Was there any reason (other than the "Sony" label) that convinced you to pay $130 for the Sony adapter (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665530695) instead of going with a $7 third party one (http://cgi.ebay.com/Flash-Hot-Shoe-Adapter-for-Minolta-Maxuum-Dynax-FS-1100_W0QQitemZ120475627258QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCamera_Flash_Accessories?hash=item1c0ce82efa)?

Prog.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: PLLove on October 11, 2009, 09:12:12 am
Quote from: Prognathous
Was there any reason (other than the "Sony" label) that convinced you to pay $130 for the Sony adapter (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665530695) instead of going with a $7 third party one (http://cgi.ebay.com/Flash-Hot-Shoe-Adapter-for-Minolta-Maxuum-Dynax-FS-1100_W0QQitemZ120475627258QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCamera_Flash_Accessories?hash=item1c0ce82efa)?

Prog.

I went with the Sony because I needed it right away, and my local camera shop had it in stock.  If I had the luxury of time, I would have bought the 7$ option.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: aaykay on October 11, 2009, 11:00:43 am
Quote from: Quentin
I agree that regardless of the theoretical advantages of the Sony/Monolta hotshoe, Sony should have dumped it and reverted to the standard ISO arrangement when they took the brand over.  I use the Sony Adapter which is OK, but its a kludgy solution.  Unfortunately I suspect we are stuck with it  

Quentin

I agree that we are stuck with this "superior" hotshoe and also agree that Sony should have dumped it when they took the mount over.  I am assuming that some of the decision makers at the time of the takeover were former KM employees, and thus did not allow much daylight to shine on this aspect.


Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: aaykay on October 11, 2009, 11:10:53 am
Quote from: Prognathous
So you'd rather have the vast majority of Sony's user-base be forced to use a poor solution just so that you won't need to buy adapters? I think Sony is smart enough to weigh the benefits to their various user sectors. In short, the Minolta-type shoe isn't going away any time soon.

No, they will simply get used to the "poor solution" that is in use by every other dSLR manufacturer on this planet, accounting for over 95% of the  base of dSLR users.  They will be able to use their current flashes, as long as Sony provides an adapter to make it work.    

After all, if Sony depends on the tiny slice of former Minolta/KM users to move their business forward, it will be a sure-fire recipe for disaster and oblivion.  Sony's move forward is dependent on getting NEWER users into the fold (including people like myself who had no such KM/Minolta background), who in turn would not form the  NEW "vast majority of Sony's user base".  Even if I have to buy an adapter for my current F58s and F20, I would still advocate Sony dumping  this "superior" hotshoe design and moving to the design used by everyone else.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: Prognathous on October 11, 2009, 12:26:41 pm
Quote from: aaykay
No, they will simply get used to the "poor solution" that is in use by every other dSLR manufacturer on this planet, accounting for over 95% of the  base of dSLR users.

You could say the same about M42 screw mount when it was the most common method of attaching lenses to cameras. Luckily, all camera brands saw the light and switched to far superior bayonet mounts. Too bad they each chose a proprietary option, but this is very much the case with their current hot-shoes. After all, other than the physical shoe, the electrical contacts layout and protocol are all proprietary, which means that the devices most users care about ("smart" flash units) are not interchangeable anyway. For the few who need to connect other devices there are plenty of solutions - with or without adapters. For example, studio lighting and triggers can be connected to the camera PC sync socket (available on all Sony DSLR which are likely to be used with such gear). Spirit levels are available for Minolta-type shoe. This is all much ado about nothing.

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After all, if Sony depends on the tiny slice of former Minolta/KM users to move their business forward, it will be a sure-fire recipe for disaster and oblivion.

I don't think Sony cares so much about current Minolta users, as they're selling a lot more cameras than Minolta ever did. The number of people still using Minolta's 6MP DSLR (many with first-black-frame issues) must be negligible compared to the numbers Sony has sold since acquiring Minolta's camera business. Sony just had the IP rights to a better hot-shoe, so they did the right thing and used it, to the joy of most alpha-mount users.

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Sony's move forward is dependent on getting NEWER users into the fold (including people like myself who had no such KM/Minolta background), who in turn would not form the  NEW "vast majority of Sony's user base".

The vast majority of Sony's user base doesn't include people who care about professional studio gear, and the few who do can use $7 adapters.

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Even if I have to buy an adapter for my current F58s and F20, I would still advocate Sony dumping  this "superior" hotshoe design and moving to the design used by everyone else.

Feel free to advocate, but don't expect Sony to throw away the usability, speed and security advantages of the new shoe for the sake of a few grumpy pros who are so hooked about the 1913 ISO kludge. It's not going to happen.

Prog.
Title: Sony A900 -Just delivered!
Post by: Prognathous on October 12, 2009, 06:17:32 am
Rumor: Sony mirrorless APS-C camera (http://sonyalpharumors.com/sr2-sony-mirrorless-camera/)

Anyone wants to guess which hot-shoe type it's going to use?  

Prog.