Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Syl on August 18, 2009, 01:21:28 pm
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London-based Drew Gardner will lead the week-long Phase One Master Class in Paso Robles, California, October 25-30, 2009. This 5-day workshop is a hands-on opportunity to shoot Phase One digital cameras in a variety of locations. The workshop is also sponsored by Elinchrom and Manfrotto – who are providing lighting and grip gear.
If you are a DSLR shooter who is thinking of stepping up to medium format, then you will find this workshop to be the perfect opportunity to road-test the industry-leading Phase One system. If you currently use Phase One, the workshop will help you unlock the potential of Phase One cameras and software. In addition to Drew’s expertise, a Phase One Factory Technician will be in attendance to answer your most detailed questions.
Located halfway between Los Angeles and San Francisco, Paso Robles is the hub of California's central-coast wine district. With a landscape that resembles Tuscany and over 200 wineries in the area, Paso Robles Workshops is quickly becoming a popular destination for photographers.
Enrollment is limited to 15 students. For more information, see the Paso Robles Workshops site (PasoRoblesWorkshops.com (http://pasoroblesworkshops.com)).
(http://pasoroblesworkshops.com/galleries/drew_gardner/Drew_Gardner_Europa_520.jpg)
'Europa' by Drew Gardner
IMPORTANT NOTE (added 20 Aug): 'Europa' was not created for or by Phase One. It has not been used in an ad by Phase One. As detailed in the workshop link above, Phase One is sponsoring the workshop through the contribution of cameras and technical support for student use. Again as detailed via the link, the workshop is being produced by PRW – which is also the originator of this post.
I elected to use 'Europa' here because it is the cover image for Drew's tutorial DVD (http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,12490.html) that he released earlier this year. It is part of his Forest Series. I encourage you to look at Drew's portfolio site (http://www.drew.it/) to see more of the work from his Forest series. All involve contemporary interpretations of iconic women from mythology and literature.
Further, as the historical and artistic context (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_%28mythology%29) of Drew's 'Europa' is not apparent to many who have commented on this forum, I have appended the following series of images that depict 'Europa' from ancient through to modern times. If you previously found Drew's image above to be offensive or baseless, I encourage you to reconsider it in the context of the following:
(http://pasoroblesworkshops.com/galleries/drew_gardner/Europa-Pompeii.jpg)
1st-century fresco of 'Europa' discovered in Pompeii
(http://pasoroblesworkshops.com/galleries/drew_gardner/Europa-Rembrant.jpg)
'Abduction of Europa' by Rembrandt, circa 1632
(http://pasoroblesworkshops.com/galleries/drew_gardner/Europa-1726.jpg)
'Europa' by Coypel, 1726
(http://pasoroblesworkshops.com/galleries/drew_gardner/Europa-European-Parliment.jpg)
'Abduction of Europe' outside the European Parliament building in Strasbourg, France
(http://pasoroblesworkshops.com/galleries/drew_gardner/Europa-Greek2EuroCoin.jpg)
2 Euro Coin, circa 2007
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I'm sorry, but Phase really need to look at what they are doing promoting images like this.
Maybe Mr Gardner knows his stuff technically, but really - a naked model astride a Water Buffalo in a misty forest. and its called... "Europa" ??
isn't this somewhat offensive (1) to Women, and (2) to anyone who cares about photography and has a brain?
Dear Phase One: it is 2009, not 1969.
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I agree, PhaseOne needs to step it up quality-wise on their branding, they are hopelessly behind Hasselblad in that respect.
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Since this is clearly a marketing push, I assume the workshop is free
I'm sorry, but Phase really need to look at what they are doing promoting images like this.
Maybe Mr Gardner knows his stuff technically, but really - a naked model astride a Water Buffalo in a misty forest. and its called... "Europa" ??
isn't this somewhat offensive (1) to Women, and (2) to anyone who cares about photography and has a brain?
Dear Phase One: it is 2009, not 1969.
Isn't much (most?) fine art photography worth more than a glance offensive or at least provocative?
Not that I agree it's offensive - I don't and it's not.
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Its not offensive. TJ Donkey Show, now that's offensive.
A fine image devoid of any substance. In fact, its so stupid it actually detracts from the message of the workshop. Bad bad bad marketing. Phase needs to get a real marketing system together, that is coherent and tasteful, unless this is the type of image the dentists want to make with their Phase backs.
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Damn.. tough crowd in here =) I'm actually attending a workshop/seminar (1 day) next week in Gothenburg with Drew Gardner. And quite looking forward to it. Always nice to see another photographer at work, at least for me since im quite new to this =)
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and so many great photographers use Phase products, that they are spoiled for choice.
I begin to wonder if they can actually tell the difference?
Mr Gardner may be an absolute ace technically, but this sort of imagery does no one any favors, and puts me off Phase as a company.
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and so many great photographers use Phase products, that they are spoiled for choice.
I begin to wonder if they can actually tell the difference?
Mr Gardner may be an absolute ace technically, but this sort of imagery does no one any favors, and puts me off Phase as a company.
He does nice work, in fact, sometimes really nice. This image, well, it aint nice.
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I'm sorry, but Phase really need to look at what they are doing promoting images like this.
Maybe Mr Gardner knows his stuff technically, but really - a naked model astride a Water Buffalo in a misty forest. and its called... "Europa" ??
isn't this somewhat offensive (1) to Women, and (2) to anyone who cares about photography and has a brain?
Dear Phase One: it is 2009, not 1969.
On the contrary I visited his website and found his photography unique and interesting - in particular his "Descendants" series. I also quite like the Europa idea but would find it more appealing had he used a blonde instead and cropped tighter on the scene.
In case you've missed the theme on the water buffalo - Europa was a Greek goddess stolen by Zeus and taken away on a bull. Obviously the photographer didn't have a bull at hand so perhaps he resorted to using a water buffalo - not surprising since the forest appears to be somewhere in Asia.
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In case you've missed the theme on the water buffalo - Europa was a Greek goddess stolen by Zeus and taken away on a bull. Obviously the photographer didn't have a bull at hand so perhaps he resorted to using a water buffalo - not surprising since the forest appears to be somewhere in Asia.
Let's not get Greek mythology in the way of righteous indignation over a photograph of a naked woman on a water buffalo.
/sarcasm
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Let's not get Greek mythology in the way of righteous indignation over a photograph of a naked woman on a water buffalo.
/sarcasm
Feppe I stand corrected - you're absolutely correct - we shouldn't let classical mythology and fine arts get in the way. After all it is 2009, not 1969. Now I'm concerned about the influence of this event on the water buffalo's sexual development later in life.
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I'm sorry, but Phase really need to look at what they are doing promoting images like this.
Maybe Mr Gardner knows his stuff technically, but really - a naked model astride a Water Buffalo in a misty forest. and its called... "Europa" ??
isn't this somewhat offensive (1) to Women, and (2) to anyone who cares about photography and has a brain?
Dear Phase One: it is 2009, not 1969.
Would have been so nice to see some of your pictures Mr Unknown.
Just to see if you are in 2009 and not in 1969 or some other year.
It so easy to criticize other when you are anonymous .
And maybe this was offensive to women in 1969, but not in 2009.
So let us see your pictures, made with or without your brain .-)
Willow
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This work was not created for or by Phase One. The photograph is part of Drew's Forest Series. When considering an artistic interpretation, context is important. I encourage you to look at Drew's portfolio site (http://www.drew.it/) to see more of the work from his Forest series.
I elected to use the image in this post as it is the cover image for Drew's tutorial DVD (http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,12490.html) that he released earlier this year. The DVD shows the making of 'Europa' in the UK (not in Asia as mistakenly suggested).
Further, as the historical and artistic context of Drew's work is not apparent to many on this forum, I have appended a series of images that depict 'Europa' from ancient through to modern times. If you previously found Drew's 'Europa' to be offensive or baseless, I encourage you to reconsider it in the context of the collection of images that I have added to the original post above.
Just to be clear, as described in detail on the workshop page linked above, Phase One is sponsoring the workshop by providing cameras and technical support for the students. Paso Robles Workshops is the producer of the workshop and remains totally responsible for the marketing of the workshop and the post on this forum. Thx.
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This work was not created for or by Phase One. The photograph is part of Drew's Forest Series. When considering an artistic interpretation, context is important. I encourage you to look at Drew's portfolio site (http://www.drew.it/) to see more of the work from his Forest series.
I elected to use the image in this post as it is the cover image for Drew's tutorial DVD (http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,12490.html) that he released earlier this year. The DVD shows the making of 'Europa' in the UK (not in Asia as mistakenly suggested).
Further, as the historical and artistic context of Drew's work is not apparent to many on this forum, I have appended a series of images that depict 'Europa' from ancient through to modern times. If you previously found Drew's 'Europa' to be offensive or baseless, I encourage you to reconsider it in the context of the collection of images that I have added to the original post above.
Just to be clear, as described in detail on the workshop page linked above, Phase One is sponsoring the workshop by providing cameras and technical support for the students. Paso Robles Workshops is the producer of the workshop and remains totally responsible for the marketing of the workshop and the post on this forum. Thx.
I don't know if I'm simply politically incorrect, but I'm quite surprised at the negative comments this image has engendered. Personally, I find it interesting and arresting, though I find the balance not quite right.
This is one person's attempt to express himself and I think that's great.
Bill
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I don't know if I'm simply politically incorrect, but I'm quite surprised at the negative comments this image has engendered. Personally, I find it interesting and arresting, though I find the balance not quite right.
I totally agree. I guess that's what makes for horse races. I also find it both interesting and as you say, arresting. Something, I can't quite put my finger on it is, as you say a bit out of balance. But there's no question this fellow has an eye and interesting perspective and doesn't deserve anything other than either constructive criticism or the admission that we all have different views towards art. The guy ain't no hack!
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...
Further, as the historical and artistic context of Drew's work is not apparent to many on this forum, I have appended a series of images that depict 'Europa' from ancient through to modern times. If you previously found Drew's 'Europa' to be offensive or baseless, I encourage you to reconsider it in the context of the collection of images that I have added to the original post above.
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And here is the full breadth of Coypel's "Rape of Europa"
[attachment=16155:No_l_Nic...l_Europe.jpg]
Which can be seen in Philadelphia Museum of Art ...
Is that a penis on the cherub? Oh no!!
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I don't know if I'm simply politically incorrect, but I'm quite surprised at the negative comments this image has engendered. Personally, I find it interesting and arresting, though I find the balance not quite right.
This is one person's attempt to express himself and I think that's great.
Bill
I agree on the non-offensiveness and am also impressed by the image. But let's put things into perspective: it was just one (1) poster who found the image offensive, and we're giving undue credit to the noise.
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The trend toward political correctness continues unabated. In fact I think things were a lot better in 1969 than they are now in that regard.
I know Drew, and he's a talented artist. One may not care for this particular image, but there is in my view absolutely no need for this type of indignation. Totally unwarranted.
I received an email yesterday from someone who said that I should remove the current front page photograph (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/1photo-pages/sisters.shtml) because it was obscene.
One has to wonder at some people's grasp of reality.
Michael
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One has really to wonder, when seeing this!
Thierry
I received an email yesterday from someone who said that I should remove the current front page photograph (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/1photo-pages/sisters.shtml) because it was obscene.
One has to wonder at some people's grasp of reality.
Michael
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I received an email yesterday from someone who said that I should remove the current front page photograph (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/1photo-pages/sisters.shtml) because it was obscene.
One has to wonder at some people's grasp of reality.
Michael
Ha! reminds me of the Jethro Tull Album "Thick as a Brick" a similar prepubesent image was blacked out on the Aust release.
Mind you Playboy was banned in Aus then-
Blame it on the missionaries!
DesW
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…I received an email yesterday from someone who said that I should remove the current front page photograph (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/1photo-pages/sisters.shtml) because it was obscene.
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I'm not surprised! Some people with twisted minds always manage to find obscenity, profanity, etc... everwhere. It's sad but I don't see this dangerous trend going down.
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Well i for one are looking forward to the workshop in Sweden on tuesday. If i could afford going to Paso Robles i would because i have found that no matter how good you are at something, there is usually something new you learn when watching a good photographer do their craft. And if anyone tries to claim that Drew is not a good photographer better be prepared to back that claim up with an astounding quality of work to show us
And Michael, if the reason they found it obscene was that the left girl was sitting down and showing a few cm of knickers, they definately should consider seeking help. Because the obscene mind is in the viewer in that case and one would shudder to think how that person would react walking on any beach in the world or even past a kindergarten.
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d obscenity, profanity, etc...
I use to work with a retoucher that wouldn't allow profanity or retouch, nudes, cigarettes or alcohol.
I'd say shit Ralph, those are the only reasons I got into this business.
BC
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the issue is far bigger than the political correctness gone awry - thats too easy a response.
for years photographers (usually male and middle aged) have made unthinking images of naked women a staple of their work.
95% of the time its because it sells a product, draws attention to their work, massages their ego, and has overt or covert prurient interest
just occasionally it is justified and/or worthwhile, but these are far outweighed by the above, and the unthinking dumbness with which it occurs is depressing.
it has been this way for decades, especially since the 1960's, and if the pendulum is now swinging back a bit over center, then quite frankly, we deserved it.
its time we got our brains in gear, stopped mindlessly using womens naked bodies as decorative objects in imagery without pause for good thought or reflection, and watertight intentions.
if you genuinely feel you have those, then go right ahead, but you are going to have to expect some critiques along the way.
and for what its worth, the o.p. image looks more like an out-take of a 1970's hair commercial to me!
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I agree it's a tough crowd and I think it has something to do with the tight market we are in these days. It seems like some photographers feel like they have to be more competitive than ever before, and are thus more quick to shoot down someone else's work. I don' think it's necessary, nor does it advance anyone. Just my 2 cents.
And I like the image - the smoky lighting effect through the trees is quite nice IMO.
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I'm not hateing on Drew Gardner, I like Drew's work, we met a few times, I dig him. I like naked women, always have. Straight women like naked women, because naked women are attractive as things in themselves, in the Kantian sense.
I just think the Europa photo fails as an homage to the myth, and for the simple reason that I know the myth, I know the Rembrandt painting well, and I didn't see the connection with Drew's photo until the OP posted an explanation. Maybe I was drinking and smoking, learing at naked women or otherwise impaired when I saw the OP. The composition is also off to me, not in a good way. Not to build tension like a dissonant note in an otherwise harmonious chord, but just bothersome. Other people obviously have a different opinion, and I hope those people are SMOTE BY GOD. I'm kidding, by the way.
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...
.....and if the pendulum is now swinging back a bit over center, then quite frankly, we deserved it.
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The core issue is that we're having to discuss the morality of nude photography versus the composition of the work or at least its technical merits. Although I'm not a professional photographer I am a consumer of imagery and when the first reply to a benign post about a photo workshop turns into a spectacle about nudity it doesn't bode well for future of the freedom to express one's self and explore the bounds of creativity.
"we deserved it" ?? Speak for yourself please - "I deserved it" would be more appropriate for your thinking....
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duplicate post deleted....
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I received an email yesterday from someone who said that I should remove the current front page photograph (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/1photo-pages/sisters.shtml) because it was obscene.
One has to wonder at some people's grasp of reality.
It's a sick society when something like that can be considered obscene.
I read from somewhere you need to get permission to photograph your own kids at a school football (soccer) game in the UK - you might accidentally take a picture of somebody else's kid.
*sigh*
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The core issue is that we're having to discuss the morality of nude photography versus the composition of the work or at least its technical merits. Although I'm not a professional photographer I am a consumer of imagery and when the first reply to a benign post about a photo workshop turns into a spectacle about nudity it doesn't bode well for future of the freedom to express one's self and explore the bounds of creativity.
"we deserved it" ?? Speak for yourself please - "I deserved it" would be more appropriate for your thinking....
Fortunately that unfortunate and lone kneejerk reaction was duly condemned by later posters, restoring some sanity to this crazy world.
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I wouldnt say its obscene. I would say its tacky overdone rubbish though (imo).
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I wouldnt say its obscene. I would say its tacky overdone rubbish though (imo).
I think it is a little sad that when someone tries to put a programme together, it is then ripped apart by some on the image he has selected.
Let Drew put on his seminar , judge him by the knowledge he passes out. Personally, I do not find the image offensive at all.
Kevin
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I wouldnt say its obscene. I would say its tacky overdone rubbish though (imo).
How great are these comments by anonymous people like yourself. Why don't you show us some of your great images and artworks ?
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Well i went to the workshop in Gothenburg with Drew Gardner today and i would like to personally recommend anyone to go listen to him. He is a very engaging photographer and the seminar and workshop was well worth it.
If you (like me) happen to be one of the quiet ones who actually do like his Forest series (where the OP picture can be found) it is nice to meet Drew in person and get to pick his brain for what he is passionate about in photography. And if you think that the waterbuffalo picture the biggest bash to womanhood since the first man bashed his future wife over the head with a club, then you probably wont need to go after all.
The good thing with opinions after all is that all is entitled to their own. Sometimes however it would be nice if some people remembered that the rest of us are entitled NOT to hear that opinion aswell
Peace out, now im going to go shoot something.... (with a camera)
/Henrik
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I would personally like to thank Drew for offending me. I would enjoy to see additional offending photographs of this caliber. Its a great image. As stated before, if your so down on his work lets see what you have done. If your so offended by this get a life.
From one of my favorite photographers Peter Joel Witkin
P.S. Please make my day and be offended.
(http://www.edelmangallery.com/witkin33.jpg)
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Can someone explain the logic behind this statement - "if your so down on his work lets see what you have done" - or similar ones echoed above?
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Can someone explain the logic behind this statement - "if your so down on his work lets see what you have done" - or similar ones echoed above?
Its a ploy to change the subject, is all. Ad hominim, I believe its called. Puts someone on the defense and changes the the debate to something off topic, like the debate in the US over health care and "death panels".
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Well i went to the workshop in Gothenburg with Drew Gardner today and i would like to personally recommend anyone to go listen to him. He is a very engaging photographer and the seminar and workshop was well worth it.
If you (like me) happen to be one of the quiet ones who actually do like his Forest series (where the OP picture can be found) it is nice to meet Drew in person and get to pick his brain for what he is passionate about in photography. And if you think that the waterbuffalo picture the biggest bash to womanhood since the first man bashed his future wife over the head with a club, then you probably wont need to go after all.
The good thing with opinions after all is that all is entitled to their own. Sometimes however it would be nice if some people remembered that the rest of us are entitled NOT to hear that opinion aswell
Peace out, now im going to go shoot something.... (with a camera)
/Henrik
Who did Drew offend? One prissy dude? No one else seems to care, except for the people outraged that some gentle flower got all 1995 up in this joint.
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Its a ploy to change the subject, is all. Ad hominim, I believe its called. Puts someone on the defense and changes the the debate to something off topic, like the debate in the US over health care and "death panels".
You have to admit, though, that it can be odd on any forum when you have unknown people throwing rocks from behind the bushes. It's also interesting how often you find that it's the least experienced photographers who make the harshest/boldest remarks. (I'm not just talking about LL - this seems to happen all across the web.) I don't know anything about tmx3 but it's nice to know something about who are speaking with, no?
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Who did Drew offend? One prissy dude? No one else seems to care, except for the people outraged that some gentle flower got all 1995 up in this joint.
Hilarious!
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I probably should've thought twice and shouldnt have said anything to be honest. Id sympathise with some of the points raised by my post and take that on board, but I did say it was only my opinion. Is the photographer more sucessful than me - yeah, sure I wouldnt deny that. i certainly wanst the first to express a similar opinion though.
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I have been reading this post & replies from early on & cannot contain myself, that nobody has fathom the image.
It is a simple photograph. "Throw in a NAKED model, throw some harsh angled light, then rest is just BULL." Snap the image & they shall come with their money. Really it reminds me of the old travelling circus, put up the tent, we all know what's in it - same old bull, but still people do come. What could he possibly give new information that we cannot find on our own? This is a Pro Forum, we all should know everything he could possibly show, if not than talk to your suppliers or other fine congenial photographers who reside here. Save your money in these economic times.
My personal opinion is don't give anymore ink than he already got without any contribution in the forum. I know I just did.
May be he can provide solution for MOIRE problems in Phase One Backs, but I doubt. As Doug Peterson suggestion is buy most expensive back then it will solved. May be that's why his model doesn't have any cloths, so no moire.
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May be he can provide solution for MOIRE problems in [any camera which doesn't soften the image with an AA filter*], but I doubt. As Doug Peterson suggestion is by most expensive back then it will solve. May be that's why his model don't have cloths, so moire.
*Quote clarified by Doug with brackets
Hasselblad offers cavorting around with ex-NASA-folk; that's pretty cool. But if you buy a P65+ you get beautiful naked models. You heard it here first.
If you want zero moire then no problem, shoot a dSLR which softens every image regardless of whether it needs it or not.
By the way the P40+ has the same extreme-low moire characteristics at half the price.
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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*Quote clarified by Doug with brackets
Hasselblad offers cavorting around with ex-NASA-folk; that's pretty cool. But if you buy a P65+ you get beautiful naked models. You heard it here first.
If you want zero moire then no problem, shoot a dSLR which softens every image regardless of whether it needs it or not.
By the way the P40+ has the same extreme-low moire characteristics at half the price.
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)
Doug, with all due respect, as you deservedly earned it, with your unrelenting pursuit of solving everyone's problem. I do respect your replies, I sincerely do. But you & I know that other than Michael Ezra our collegue @ L-L, most of us photograph at least some images that have people with cloths on & I definately understand MOIRE problem inherrent to Phase One's most backs, exception being the couple of most expensive backs.. My problem with this post is NOT Phase One, but how this quite expensive workshop with lotsa smoke & mirrors, that is so vehemently pushed by peeps who HAS NOT contributed anything in this forum.
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O, I hope my post didn't come across wrong. I only meant to be funny; wasn't jabbing at anyone/anything. Thanks for the kind words though.
Doug Peterson ()
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Too bad, there aren't any Phase One or Hasselblad workshops in NYC by October.