Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Computers & Peripherals => Topic started by: mdijb on August 10, 2009, 11:07:37 pm
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I read with interest the article about the 30 in Eizo. Has anyone compared this monitor with the NEC 30 monitor which has had some very good reviews, and costs about 1/2 the Eizo?
MDIJB
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I read with interest the article about the 30 in Eizo. Has anyone compared this monitor with the NEC 30 monitor which has had some very good reviews, and costs about 1/2 the Eizo?
I too would like to know what that huge difference in cost buys you.
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I read with interest the article about the 30 in Eizo. Has anyone compared this monitor with the NEC 30 monitor which has had some very good reviews, and costs about 1/2 the Eizo?
MDIJB
Eizo make quality, state-of-the-art monitors, made-for-the-job of producing stable, profiled, standard colour.
Do you need 30?
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I can't vouch for the quality of the Eizos, but no one doubts their essential goodness. I can say that the NEC LCD3090WQXI Ihave used for the last year and a half has bee superb. Excellent color accuracy, uniformity and stability, not to mention 4 year warranty. I calibrate with SpectraView II software and an iOne and print to a Canon 8100, Epson 9800 and LightJet with Fuji Crystal Archive. I'm much happier with this than a 30" Apple Cinema Display I had been using.
I don't doubt and Eizo would make me happy, but so does the extra couple of thousand dollars I have in my pocket with the NEC.
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I read with interest the article about the 30 in Eizo. Has anyone compared this monitor with the NEC 30 monitor which has had some very good reviews, and costs about 1/2 the Eizo?
MDIJB
Does Eizo make their own panels? I have not owned an Eizo, but I dont think they make their own panels. I think they take panels and make very good monitors using another panel.
_perhaps the reason for such pricing?
I have used NEC and they are very good monitors.
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I too would like to know what that huge difference in cost buys you.
...inferior viewing angles and smaller gamut - that's for sure.
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...inferior viewing angles and smaller gamut - that's for sure.
Does anyone have a gamut comparison? I can provide a profile off my NEC LCD3090WQXi if someone with an Eizo wants to graph the two.
Martin
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Does anyone have a gamut comparison? I can provide a profile off my NEC LCD3090WQXi if someone with an Eizo wants to graph the two.
Martin
http://www.eizo-downloads.com/downloads/ic...s/CG301WINF.zip (http://www.eizo-downloads.com/downloads/icc/graphics/CG301WINF.zip)
(http://members.chello.pl/m.kaluza/eizovsnec.jpg)
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...inferior viewing angles and smaller gamut - that's for sure.
Ouch (well at least for viewing angle). The gamut isn't that big a deal. I wouldn't say a larger gamut automatically makes a "better" reference display.
As for if Eizo makes the panels or not, again, I'm not sure that's justification for the price difference either.
Eizo sent me a display many years ago to evaluate for my book. It was very nice. But at the time, I didn't see anything compelling in the price differences between it and at the time, the Artisan and NEC didn't have the modern displays we are discussing so I didn't have a way to compare them. I really think Eizo needs to find a compelling reason for this price differential. I know this photographic segment of their business is pretty small compared to their real expertise in the medial imagining industry.
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Ouch (well at least for viewing angle). The gamut isn't that big a deal. I wouldn't say a larger gamut automatically makes a "better" reference display.
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Unless you are looking at your display from a weird position, or you regularly have a group of people surrounding, looking at your screen, viewing angle is not a concern.
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http://www.eizo-downloads.com/downloads/ic...s/CG301WINF.zip (http://www.eizo-downloads.com/downloads/icc/graphics/CG301WINF.zip)
(http://members.chello.pl/m.kaluza/eizovsnec.jpg)
I am no color expert, but I know to read a graph compared to a Adobe RGB color space and how the display falls in or beyond that color space.
What does this graph show regarding the gamut?
How do you read it?
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Unless you are looking at your display from a weird position, or you regularly have a group of people surrounding, looking at your screen, viewing angle is not a concern.
If the screen is 30" large, it may be a concern.
I am no color expert, but I know to read a graph compared to a Adobe RGB color space and how the display falls in or beyond that color space.
What does this graph show regarding the gamut?
How do you read it?
It shows that NEC has larger color space volume.
With AdobeRGB it looks like that (AdobeRGB - blue shape):
(http://members.chello.pl/m.kaluza/eizovsnec2.jpg)
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[quote name='Czornyj' post='303350' date='Aug 12 2009, 12:26 PM']If the screen is 30" large, it may be a concern.
It shows that NEC has larger color space volume.
With AdobeRGB it looks like that (AdobeRGB - blue shape):
I use 2 x30" screens dual mode, and I dont get into a position where it would be an issue, but then I strictly use it for editing.
So I see the red mesh(NEC?) extending further out of the solid blue area. This indicating a larger vomue(I take it), and where is the Eizo?
I wonder how my XL30 falls into this? I purchased it knowing it is larger than ADOBE RGB
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I use 2 x30" screens dual mode, and I dont get into a position where it would be an issue, but then I strictly use it for editing.
So I see the red mesh(NEC?) extending further out of the solid blue area. This indicating a larger vomue(I take it), and where is the Eizo?
I wonder how my XL30 falls into this? I purchased it knowing it is larger than ADOBE RGB
Eizo is the colored shape.
In simple words - Eizo and NEC have similar green colorant, but NEC has blue and red colorants, that are more saturated:
XL30 with RGB LED backlight is even larger, there's no ICC profile on Samsung nor LaCie website, so I can't add it to my comparison.
Problem with S-PVA is that it gradually changes the contrast when you change the angle of observation:
gamma test (when the display is gamma 2.2 calibrated, the pattern is neutral grey):
http://members.chello.pl/m.kaluza/lcd_butcher.png (http://members.chello.pl/m.kaluza/lcd_butcher.png)
21" IPS type panel:
(http://members.chello.pl/m.kaluza/ips1.jpg)
(http://members.chello.pl/m.kaluza/ips2.jpg)
21" S-PVA type panel:
(http://members.chello.pl/m.kaluza/pva1.jpg)
(http://members.chello.pl/m.kaluza/pva2.jpg)
As a result - when you edit a picture on a 30" S-PVA, the lateral part of the image may have slightly brighter shadows, than in the center.
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Thanks for all the replies--it looks like NEC is the winner.
Anyone have similar gamut comparisons for the Apple 30 in vs the NEC
MDIJB
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Eizo is the colored shape.
In simple words - Eizo and NEC have similar green colorant, but NEC has blue and red colorants, that are more saturated:
Of course - like Andrew noticed - the difference it is negligable
XL30 with RGB LED backlight is even larger, there's no ICC profile on Samsung nor LaCie website, so I can't add it to my comparison.
Problem with S-PVA is that it gradually changes the contrast when you change the angle of observation:
gamma test (when the display is gamma 2.2 calibrated, the pattern is neutral grey):
http://members.chello.pl/m.kaluza/lcd_butcher.png (http://members.chello.pl/m.kaluza/lcd_butcher.png)
As a result - when you edit a picture on a 30" S-PVA, the lateral part of the image may have slightly brighter shadows, than in the center.
I have heard this re SPVA before. I dont think all makers handle SPVA the same, as I know on another LCD screen that is SPVA, what you are saying is very noticable.
In the angles I work, or even extreme angles ( I do shift around a bit), it is there if you look for it..Almost a subtle haze when in the way left or right angle. When I work with large black backrgounds(very often) I go to the extreme edge of my screen at an angle view, and the screen will be able to detect a difference in black saturation %. Then I can easily go in a balance things out. Oddly enough it works as a tool for prepress. On my other screens I cannot do this, and can easily be off on the blacks in magazine print.
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If you get any of the EIZO CG, NEC 90s or the Samsung XL you are definitely in good hands. However, between the Eizo and the NEC, the NEC I believe has newer technology in their screens then their counterpart EIZO's
Though I haven't had a chance to work on the EIZO 222 or whatever its called. but work on th CG's and nec 90's every day and they are both a pleasure to use. I prefer the NEC myself. but that is personal, it seems to fit the bill for me
Henrik
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I had the same dilemma when I was looking for a new monitor. I looked at the Apple 30", the Eizo and the NEC discussed here. I used the mac monitor at work and I didn't think it had as large a gamut as the other two monitors. I couldn't get the Apple monitor to calibrate accurately (too bright). I found the Eizo and NEC to be so similar in specs and in person (although didn't view side by side) that I chose the latter for price. I ended up with the 26" NEC since it was half the price of the 30" and not that much smaller. (I could buy two 26" if I wanted.)
The NEC has worked flawlessly and the calibration software that came with it is excellent. Screen images match my z3100 prints in all but the most extreme cases where screen shows more than the print.
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I just ordered a refurb NEC LCD2690WUXi, an online seller called Tech for Less in Colorado has over thirty of them for $732. It arrives today, I'll let you know if there's any problems with it. It seems like a great deal for a photo editing monitor.
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refurb
interessting!
In how far "refurbished"? Do you happen to know if it has new backlight?
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I just ordered a refurb NEC LCD2690WUXi, an online seller called Tech for Less in Colorado has over thirty of them for $732. It arrives today, I'll let you know if there's any problems with it. It seems like a great deal for a photo editing monitor.
I was considering the 26" as well. The thing that bothered me was the specs regarding pixels per inch. Currently I have a 21" Eizo and its pixel specs are same as the NEC 24" unit. But for the NEC 26" units, it seems they are simply spreading the same dots over a larger area.
Eizo 21" Native Resolution 1600x1200 / Pixel Pitch .270mm / PPI 94.
NEC 24" Native Resolution 1920x1200 / Pixel Pitch .270mm / PPI 94.
NEC 26'' Native Resolution 1920x1200 / Pixel Pitch .287mm / PPI 89.
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It just arrived. No documentation or written warranty, only a power and VGA cable. I called NEC, they say this is standard for refurbs- you have to download the manual and buy a DVI cable. They said Tech For Less is an authorized retailer, the refurb warranty is one year. The NEC refurb sticker on the box says it was manufactured 2007.04, the recertification was 2009.07. Don't know if it has new backlight tubes. As I understand it, one advantage of this line is that it does auto correction of changing color and output of backlight. I'll report if any problems. Still seems like a great deal.
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Follow up: The display looks fine, BUT I have not been able to use SpectraView II that I purchased as a separate download from NEC. Trying to connect it with my existing X-rite i One2 calibrator and my new Mac Pro (quad core, 10.5.8), I get an error message when I launch SpectraView "Unable to communicate with monitor.." I've spent a lot of time on the phone with NEC support, no solution yet. We will probably have to do an exchange.
They also told me thy do NOT replace backlight tubes in refurbs unless they were causing a problem. Mine has 4400 hours on it, seems like a lot but they said they are rated at around 50k hours.
THe monitor looks great, I hope we can get this figured out so I can use it.
interessting!
In how far "refurbished"? Do you happen to know if it has new backlight?
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How did you obtain the hours of use information for your unit?
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How did you obtain the hours of use information for your unit?
If you use Spectraview II it will tell you the number of hours on your NEC monitor.
Paul
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Follow up: The display looks fine, BUT I have not been able to use SpectraView II that I purchased as a separate download from NEC. Trying to connect it with my existing X-rite i One2 calibrator and my new Mac Pro (quad core, 10.5.8), I get an error message when I launch SpectraView "Unable to communicate with monitor.." I've spent a lot of time on the phone with NEC support, no solution yet. We will probably have to do an exchange.
"Apple Macs with an Nividia graphics card or chipset and Mac OS 10.5.6 or higher may give a "No communications" error in SpectraView on some early production (before mid-2007) models of LCD90 series displays, including the LCD2690WUXi and LCD2490WUXi. Please contact NEC Technical Support directly for assistance. "
http://www.necdisplay.com/supportcenter/mo...ity_Information (http://www.necdisplay.com/supportcenter/monitors/spectraview2/compatibility/#Mac_OS_version_of_SpectraView_-_Compatibility_Information)
Not sure what your system configuration is, but there are several issues with new Macs.