Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: vaphoto on August 09, 2009, 08:01:45 am
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The "Tale of two displays" points out that my Apple displays are lacking. What are the cost effective display options for someone printing only a few images a month on an Epson 3800? I currently use two screens a 15" MacBook Pro and an Apple Cinema Display (24" flat panel).
Thanks
vaphoto
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What Mark didn't mention in the article is that the 24" and 30" Cinemadisplays offer tremendous value for the money. If one isn't cash rich or doesn't have hyper exacting standards then something like the Eizo really isn't going to make your prints any better.
Nice to have, not got to have.
Michael
Ps: I use a 30" Cinemadisplay, and have for the past two years, ever since my Sony Artisan died. I can afford an Eizo but have no plans at the moment to get one. I feel that I'd rather spend the $5K at the moment on lenses and bodies that will enhance my shooting ability rather than a monitor that will only give me a somewhat better editing view of my images.
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What Mark didn't mention in the article is that the 24" and 30" Cinemadisplays offer tremendous value for the money. If one isn't cash rich or doesn't have hyper exacting standards then something like the Eizo really isn't going to make your prints any better.
I bought an Eizo way back when there just weren't any other good choices. Can't justify the price now when there are many more cost effective models that are good enough. My next one will most likely be an Apple.
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I've been using the 30 inch Apple cinema display for several years, and I have to agree with Michael. For me, $5000 will buy a lot of useful photo and lighting gear. (Alternatively, $5000 will buy a souped-up MacPro *and* a 30-inch ACD.) The proof is in the prints -- both offset and inkjet, my work prints well.
That said, the 24 inch Eizo is much more affordable at about $2000.
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Dell 2209WA or 2408WFP
HP 2475W or 2275S
NEC P221W or 2490 or 2690
IMO, Eizo is totally over the top in price. It may be incrementally better than some other top shelf product like the NECs
but as Michael pointed out, what's it worth to you? I'd also rather have bodies, lenses, studio lighting, etc.
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The "Tale of two displays" points out that my Apple displays are lacking. What are the cost effective display options for someone printing only a few images a month on an Epson 3800? I currently use two screens a 15" MacBook Pro and an Apple Cinema Display (24" flat panel).
Thanks
vaphoto
I think NEC x90 series panels are the best solution. Personally, I'd rather take 3090WQXi than Eizo - it's cheaper, it has larger gamut, it has 12 bit LUT, so can be internally calibrated with surgical precision, and it also has electronic uniformity compensation, so is even from edge to edge. In fact - it has H-IPS matrix rather than S-PVA, so it also perfect when viewed at an angle. Eizo's S-PVA has very low black point, so at 80 cd/m^2 it has approx. 400:1 contrast ratio, while IPS type panels have little higher black point, and that's why they should rather be calibrated to a higher luminance level. Apart from that NEC is really a decent performer and it can be a perfect alternative for expansive Eizo CG series panels.
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My problem with monitors is often the opposite. They are to good!!! ( Lacie321, Apple 23" and 30")
I deliver on a yearbasis around a 200 prints with a average size of A3+ but most of my work is viewed and judged on screen. Internet, mail, projection etc are my common clientplatforms.
When I am working with my images, correcting them for the most pleasing results I work with my monitors and they do a good job for printing purposes.
But sometimes it is rather dissapointing to see your work on monitors by your friends, family and even worse your clients.
I should work also with a 'average bad monitor' for judging to see what others probably will see! In fact I'm doing this already for the last 25 years, but not for images but for sound.
Its a well known fact in musicstudio's around the world that you shouldn't mix your recordings on your expensive A-monitorsystem but using most of the time your B-monitors instead. Otherwise you are fooling yourself. That fantastic sound of your A-monitor will not be heard on average consumer loudspeakers.
The same holds true maybe in a lesser extend for images. If your monitor is 'wow' (my apple 30" is wow, the sheer size alone) you might become to quickly satisfied with your results.
Your pictures should kept their impact also on lesser screens.
Having said this, if I had the money I probably would buy a Eizo 30"
Ton
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But sometimes it is rather dissapointing to see your work on monitors by your friends, family and even worse your clients.
I should work also with a 'average bad monitor' for judging to see what others probably will see!
The only problem with this is that there's no knowing how bad other folks displays will be, or exactly how they will be bad: crushed blacks, lousy grayscale tracking, too bright, etc. There isn't really a consistent, reproducible lowest commmon denominator you can aim for.
In fact I'm doing this already for the last 25 years, but not for images but for sound.
Its a well known fact in musicstudio's around the world that you shouldn't mix your recordings on your expensive A-monitorsystem but using most of the time your B-monitors instead. Otherwise you are fooling yourself. That fantastic sound of your A-monitor will not be heard on average consumer loudspeakers.
It should be noted that some of us really hate this fact. As someone with a nice sound system at home, good headphones at the office, and even a decent car stereo it really grates on my nerves to listen to poorly mixed music that's way too bright with the loudness pushed so hard that there's constant clipping and distortion.
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The only problem with this is that there's no knowing how bad other folks displays will be, or exactly how they will be bad: crushed blacks, lousy grayscale tracking, too bright, etc. There isn't really a consistent, reproducible lowest commmon denominator you can aim for.
I fully agree with you. The problem with publishing on screen is that most comsumer (non-professional/noncalibrated)screens are so different.
It should be noted that some of us really hate this fact. As someone with a nice sound system at home, good headphones at the office, and even a decent car stereo it really grates on my nerves to listen to poorly mixed music that's way too bright with the loudness pushed so hard that there's constant clipping and distortion.
You are right, I hate that sound too. But that is a well aware choice of musicians and producers and has little to do with mixing on a B-monitor system. Sometimes you have (literally) to step back for seeing and hearing what is going on. What does the overall picture looks like
Sorry this is off topic but there are so many similarities between images and sound that it justifies it a little bit.
Ton
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Mark and I shop at the same camera store and the same salesman has been tempting me with the Eizo for the past several months. Bottom line is it is everything he claims in the article. However, at least for the time being, I remain satisfied with my 30" cinema; I know how to read it for my prints, and get what I want, so no huge, glaring deficiency --- at least yet. My next $5K is probably going to go to a 9900, and at that time I'll probably need a new monitor anyway, so hopefully the Eizo has dropped a few grand by then -- yeah right -- soooo, I'll probably look to the NEC 30" (at about half the cost of the Eizo) instead...
PS: And he's right about editing on a 30" too --- once you've been there, you can't go back to anything smaller...
Cheers,
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Yes, the P22W is pretty nice although its not an IPS panel. Worked with a classroom of them a few months ago, worked quite nicely with the SpectraView II software and supported colorimeter.
Sorry Michael, I find absolutely nothing special or unique about Apple displays and haven't for years. In fact, they are too damn bright out of the box with hardly a lick of control over this. You can't even adjust them vertically. Nice looking, that's about it. I've got one that is adequate for PS palettes.
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I have an Eizo CG241W that I've been using for over a year and am pretty happy with. I'm not sure my workspace wouldsupport a 30" display.
Right now I don't think I'd spend a huge chunk of money on a high-end display until the LCD and video card manufacturers get their act together on fully supporting deep color (HDMI 1.3), or whatever they decide to call it on the PC. I believe Windows 7 has support for this, so it should just be a matter of time.
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I think NEC x90 series panels are the best solution. Personally, I'd rather take 3090WQXi than Eizo - it's cheaper, it has larger gamut, it has 12 bit LUT, so can be internally calibrated with surgical precision, and it also has electronic uniformity compensation, so is even from edge to edge. In fact - it has H-IPS matrix rather than S-PVA, so it also perfect when viewed at an angle. Eizo's S-PVA has very low black point, so at 80 cd/m^2 it has approx. 400:1 contrast ratio, while IPS type panels have little higher black point, and that's why they should rather be calibrated to a higher luminance level. Apart from that NEC is really a decent performer and it can be a perfect alternative for expansive Eizo CG series panels.
Czornyj,
I'm not that familiar with the NEC line up. After looking at their web site it seems the MultiSync 90 series or the SpectraView series are the ones people are talking about? May not be able to pop for a 30" model. A 24" or even a 20" would probably be fine. Are the SpectraView Series monitors just MultiSync's with the dedicated colorimeter? I already own a GMB i1 Pro spectro, (GMB Match-3 software sucks) and I use it on my Eizo ColorEdge CG21 with Eizo ColorNavigator software.
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What Mark didn't mention in the article is that the 24" and 30" Cinemadisplays offer tremendous value for the money. If one isn't cash rich or doesn't have hyper exacting standards then something like the Eizo really isn't going to make your prints any better.
Nice to have, not got to have.
Michael
Ps: I use a 30" Cinemadisplay, and have for the past two years, ever since my Sony Artisan died. I can afford an Eizo but have no plans at the moment to get one. I feel that I'd rather spend the $5K at the moment on lenses and bodies that will enhance my shooting ability rather than a monitor that will only give me a somewhat better editing view of my images.
I want to ditto that. I've calibrated literally hundreds of displays, and the Apple Cinemas are really remarkable- and above all, consistent.
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Czornyj,
I'm not that familiar with the NEC line up. After looking at their web site it seems the MultiSync 90 series or the SpectraView series are the ones people are talking about? May not be able to pop for a 30" model. A 24" or even a 20" would probably be fine. Are the SpectraView Series monitors just MultiSync's with the dedicated colorimeter? I already own a GMB i1 Pro spectro, (GMB Match-3 software sucks) and I use it on my Eizo ColorEdge CG21 with Eizo ColorNavigator software.
Yes, NEC Spectraview is just a Multisync 90 panel with Spectraview II software. There are 2 panoramic wide gamut type panels - 2690WUXi/2690WUXi2 (26") and 3090WQXi (30"). The 2490WUXi/2490WUXi2 (24") is normal gamut panoramic type panel. There are also 2190UXi and 2090UXi normal gamut, classic 4:3 proportion panels. All these displays are H-IPS type panels (LG-Philips), apart from 2190UXi that is SA-SFT (NEC), very similar to S-IPS (Hitachi) that you have in your CG21.
Spectraview II is a very nice profiler, similar to ColorNavigator (or maybe even better). It works with i1pro and all popular colorimeters and spectros (including the newest ColorMunki!). All the above mentioned displays are quality wise comparable to your CG, plus they have electronic uniformity compensation and wider gamut (2690WUXi, 3090WQXi).
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Yes, NEC Spectraview is just a Multisync 90 panel with Spectraview II software.
Need Will to pipe in here but I'm not sure they are identical, even if so, I suspect they are hand picked off the line for use as the SpectraView line (much as Sony did with the Artisans).
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Need Will to pipe in here but I'm not sure they are identical, even if so, I suspect they are hand picked off the line for use as the SpectraView line (much as Sony did with the Artisans).
European NEC Spectraview panels are 100% hand picked, measured, and they even have a certificate with results of measurements, but they're also much more expansive than Multisync series.
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I bought a new 30 inch monitor a couple of months ago and ended up going with the NEC LCD3090WQXI because it cost only slightly more than the Apple 30 inch but has a wider gamut (approximately AdobeRGB) and internal 12 bit LUTs for calibration.
I bought the LCD3090W-BK-SV package which includes the monitor, SpectraView software and customized i1 Display calibration device. The whole package ended up costing $2560CDN or so vs. $2100CDN for the Apple (without a calibrator or software).
I'm very happy with it, except that the Luminous Landscape website CSS is *really* luminous on the monitor because of the wide gamut, but you get used to that too. The images display fine.
Martin
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I bought the LCD3090W-BK-SV package which includes the monitor, SpectraView software and customized i1 Display calibration device. The whole package ended up costing $2560CDN or so vs. $2100CDN for the Apple (without a calibrator or software).
Exactly. So why would anyone consider or recommend an Apple Cinema given those facts? That custom mated colorimeter alone nearly makes up the difference in price here without even mentioning the high bit panel and superb software.
So considering what you get in the package, the Cinema and the Eizo seem to my mind to both be over priced. Certainly the Apple is, I'm still wondering what the Eizo offers for the extra bucks.
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What Mark didn't mention in the article is that the 24" and 30" Cinemadisplays offer tremendous value for the money. If one isn't cash rich or doesn't have hyper exacting standards then something like the Eizo really isn't going to make your prints any better.
Nice to have, not got to have.
Michael
Ps: I use a 30" Cinemadisplay, and have for the past two years, ever since my Sony Artisan died. I can afford an Eizo but have no plans at the moment to get one. I feel that I'd rather spend the $5K at the moment on lenses and bodies that will enhance my shooting ability rather than a monitor that will only give me a somewhat better editing view of my images.
I came back home from 2 years overseas and needed to change everything. Made a simple promise to myself having worked with my eyes as my major tool for 28 years, give them a break!
I needed to consider the amount of time I spend in front of the direct link to the computer, namely the monitor which is with many (present company excepted) the last thing to spent money on. Not wanting to mess about I bought an Eizo CG241W 24 inch. LED lit monitors not required for WYSIWYG but great for TV.
I struggled with the cost but I am happy with the choice I made. If the cost is over the top ask yourselves about the early DSLR's and how much we spent on them just to yearn to update asap. My Eizo will be around a lot longer............than my first Olympus which cost the same.
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European NEC Spectraview panels are 100% hand picked, measured, and they even have a certificate with results of measurements, but they're also much more expansive than Multisync series.
On my Spectraview monitor there was a rather badly applied Spectraview sticker, when I peeled it off it said Multisync underneath. Have no complaints about the monitor though. Love it.
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On my Spectraview monitor there was a rather badly applied Spectraview sticker, when I peeled it off it said Multisync underneath. Have no complaints about the monitor though. Love it.
That's how they make Spectraview panels in Europe - they select the nice looking ones, measure them, put the SV sticker on the frame and on the box, add Spectraview Display 4 software and a hood, and enable the hardware calibration (Spectraview Display 4 aka basICColor Display 4 doesn't work with non-SV panels).
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On my Spectraview monitor there was a rather badly applied Spectraview sticker, when I peeled it off it said Multisync underneath. Have no complaints about the monitor though. Love it.
Where? Don't see any stickers on my 2690 or 3090. These are US versions.
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Other than slightly larger pixels in the 2690, is there any difference in everyday use between the NEC 2490 and 2690?
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Where? Don't see any stickers on my 2690 or 3090. These are US versions.
http://www.ixbt.com/monitor/catalog/nec06/...aview2190-b.jpg (http://www.ixbt.com/monitor/catalog/nec06/spectraview2190-b.jpg)
Other than slightly larger pixels in the 2690, is there any difference in everyday use between the NEC 2490 and 2690?
- 2490WUXi and 2490WUXi2 are "normal" gamut displays (~sRGB),
- 2690WUXi is wide gamut display (~AdobeRGB),
- 2690WUXi2 is a little bit wider than 2690WUXi gamut display (>AdobeRGB)
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- 2490WUXi and 2490WUXi2 are "normal" gamut displays (~sRGB),
- 2690WUXi is wide gamut display (~AdobeRGB),
- 2690WUXi2 is a little bit wider than 2690WUXi gamut display (>AdobeRGB)
24" Disppays:
2490WUXi2-BK is $1099.00, covers sRGB gamut, supports Spectraview, but the Spectraview software is an additional $89.00, and you use your own device (if supported).
Assuming you are going to want to take advantage of their dedicated the software, for an extra 100 bucks, you might as well get the dedicated colorimeter and buy the SV model of that size listed below.
2490W2-BK-SV is $1299.00, covers sRGB gamut, and comes with software and colorimeter.
2490WUXiSV is $1299.00, covers 75% of AdobeRGB gamut, and comes with software and colorimeter.
26" Displays:
2690WUXi2-BK is $1199.00, covers 97.8% of AdobeRGB, supports Spectraview, but the Spectraview software is an additional $89.00, and you use your own device (if supported).
2690W2-BK-SV is $1449.00, covers 97% of AdobeRGB, and comes with software and colorimeter.
It seems the 26" displays that are cherry picked for SV status are rated a bit smaller gamut than the regular MultiSync line.
If you are used to working with other sRGB gamut displays in the studio, would going to an AdobeRGB, or a 75% AdobeRGB gamut throw off your visual comfort level? I've read that some folks seem the AdobeRGB displays appear bit flat.
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2490WUXi2-BK is $1099.00, covers sRGB gamut, supports Spectraview, but the Spectraview software is an additional $89.00, and you use your own device (if supported). So for an extra 100 bucks, you might as well get the dedicated colorimeter and buy the SV model of that size listed below.
2490W2-BK-SV is $1299.00, covers sRGB gamut, and comes with software and colorimeter.
2490WUXiSV is $1299, covers 75% of AdobeRGB gamut, and comes with software and colorimeter.
Regarding their two 26" models, the 2690WUXi2-BK for $1199.00 is listed at 97.8% of AdobeRGB, 2690W2-BK-SV for $1449 is listed at 97% of AdobeRGB. It seems the 26" displays that are cherry picked for SV status are rated a bit smaller gamut than the regular MultiSync line.
If you are used to working with other sRGB gamut displays in the studio, would going to an AdobeRGB, or a 75% AdobeRGB gamut throw off your visual comfort level? I've read that some folks seem the AdobeRGB displays appear bit flat.
Goddamnit, I'll never understand NEC. In Europe both 2690WUXi2, 3090WUXi and their color critical incarnations - Spectraview Reference 2690 and Spectraview Reference 3090 are advertised as ~107% AdobeRGB panels...
Personally I work on 2190UXi, it's more suitable for what I do (photo editing, layout and prepress work for offset print). But wide gamut panels I tested and calibrated (2690WUXi, P221W, Eizo CG222W and S2231/32) do a better job when it comes to simulate the look of inkjet printer output. I bought a little Epson 7880 for personal use lately (just for fun - I couldn't resist), and now I'd really like to get one of these wide gamut panels for print preparation.
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Goddamnit, I'll never understand NEC. In Europe both 2690WUXi2, 3090WUXi and their color critical incarnations - Spectraview Reference 2690 and Spectraview Reference 3090 are advertised as ~107% AdobeRGB panels...
Might be the way they are calculating this spec. Here's a post from Will on the ColorSync list that explains how NEC should be doing this (Present coverage versus Percent area):
To clarify what this means, since there is a lot of confusion about this in the industry (intentional or not):
The de facto standard when throwing around display gamut sizes is currently to quote the gamut area, calculated in CIE xy, relative to a reference gamut and expressed as a percentage. If the reference color gamut is unspecified, it is generally assumed to be NTSC (1953) - (which is pretty useless since it's not in use and makes things more confusing, especially for those doing video work).
Another confusing point about this figure is that it does not say what portion of the 2 gamuts overlap, so it would be possible to have a very large % gamut area, but only have a smaller portion of it actually covering the reference gamut.
At NEC we have started to quote 2 sets of figures: "Percent Area" and "Percent Coverage".
The "Percent Area" is simply the area in CIE xy of the display gamut vs the reference gamut, with no consideration of how much of the gamuts actually overlap. This value can be > 100%.
The "Percent Coverage" is the overlapping area of the 2 gamuts expressed as a percent of the total area of the reference gamut. The maximum possible value for this is 100%.
We generally quote these values for AdobeRGB and sRGB, so it is easier to determine which color gamut best suits a particular application.
Using CIE xy is not ideal because it overemphasizes the greens and under emphasizes the blues. A much better way would be to use CIE u' v', but that would probably cause more confusion and make direct comparisons even more difficult.
Will Hollingworth
Manager of OEM Product Design & Development Engineering
NEC Display Solutions of America, Inc.
http://www.necdisplay.com (http://www.necdisplay.com)
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Goddamnit, I'll never understand NEC. In Europe both 2690WUXi2, 3090WUXi and their color critical incarnations - Spectraview Reference 2690 and Spectraview Reference 3090 are advertised as ~107% AdobeRGB panels...
I wonder if the panels used for models shipped to the UK or other countries come from a different vendor or assembly line? May be something due to trade restrictions, patents, etc.
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Might be the way they are calculating this spec. Here's a post from Will on the ColorSync list that explains how NEC should be doing this (Present coverage versus Percent area):
Well, it seems that NEC Display Solutions America prefers "Percent Coverage" method, while NEC Display Solutions Europe had choosen the "Percent area" one. I'd like dE^3 value or L*a*b percent coverage method, if someone would ask.
I wonder if the panels used for models shipped to the UK or other countries come from a different vendor or assembly line? May be something due to trade restrictions, patents, etc.
Not likely - as mentioned above, it's rather a matter of gamut size calculation method.
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Well, it seems that NEC Display Solutions America prefers "Percent Coverage" method, while NEC Display Solutions Europe had choosen the "Percent area" one. I'd like dE^3 value or L*a*b percent coverage method, if someone would ask.
While I love the products, I really, really wish NEC would act like a global company and provide some consistency here, as well as the software supplied and so forth. And my god, don't they understand people can purchase software from the Web? I remember when prospective customers couldn't buy the SpectraView II software because NEC didn't have enough CDs. Its a really small download. No web store? Crazy.
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While I love the products, I really, really wish NEC would act like a global company and provide some consistency here, as well as the software supplied and so forth. And my god, don't they understand people can purchase software from the Web? I remember when prospective customers couldn't buy the SpectraView II software because NEC didn't have enough CDs. Its a really small download. No web store? Crazy.
I thought Spectraview software was priced at $89.00 as a download, and $99 as a CD?
I think their model nomenclature and product descriptions needs to be revamped as well. The 2490WUXi-BK is listed as a Business Class display, and the 2490WUXi2-BK is rated as a Professional Class display. However, the Business Class unit is rated at 75% of AdobeRGB, and the Professional Class unit at just sRGB.
Also, the Business Class unit does not have any mention of Spectraview software compatibility in its description, but the Spectraview compatibility page does list it as compatible.
Makes comparing their units very confusing.
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I thought Spectraview software was priced at $89.00 as a download, and $99 as a CD?
If so, that's a recent and welcomed change. I know a year or so ago, people who wanted to purchase had to buy the CD version and when it wasn't available, these people had to wait on production.
The 2490WUXi-BK is listed as a Business Class display, and the 2490WUXi2-BK is rated as a Professional Class display. However, the Business Class unit is rated at 75% of AdobeRGB, and the Professional Class unit at just sRGB.
I can't be too critical of that considering I don't feel that the size of the display gamut alone places the unit in a fixed category. The talk of percentage of Adobe RGB (1998) is kind of like those spec's for contrast ratio, where we are to consider "more is better". In some cases, for some users, they are far better off with an sRGB display than a wider gamut display. I'm sure other displays that have wide gamut, but inferior (if any) calibration software or not working high bit would be less useful than a 2490.
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If so, that's a recent and welcomed change. I know a year or so ago, people who wanted to purchase had to buy the CD version and when it wasn't available, these people had to wait on production.
I can't be too critical of that considering I don't feel that the size of the display gamut alone places the unit in a fixed category. The talk of percentage of Adobe RGB (1998) is kind of like those spec's for contrast ratio, where we are to consider "more is better". In some cases, for some users, they are far better off with an sRGB display than a wider gamut display. I'm sure other displays that have wide gamut, but inferior (if any) calibration software or not working high bit would be less useful than a 2490.
So in reality, 75% of AdobeRGB may be even smaller than sRGB?
Another confusing thing is that both their 24" and 26" models both spec native resolutions of 1920 x 1200.
24" units lists pixel pitch/.270mm, and with a ppi/94.
26'' units lists pixel pitch/.287mm, and with a ppi/89.
Seems like lower detail in their wide screen 26" units.
Another confusing item listed strangely in their descriptions:
3090WQXi-BK lists its native res/2560x1600, pixel pitch/.251mm and with a ppi/101.
3090W-BK-SV lists its native res/2560x1600, pixel pitch/.251mm and with a ppi of 89?? That's gotta be a typo!
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Exactly. So why would anyone consider or recommend an Apple Cinema given those facts?
Actually it's a bit worse...Michael is basing his opinion of the Cinema Displays on his older, better Cinema Display–which Apple doesn't sell any more. The new ones are spec'ed lower and are generally thought of as being inferior to the series from 2-3 years ago.
So, again, the "current" Cinema Displays really are less good than the NEC Spectraviews...
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I'm a U.S. buyer of the 2690 and the SpectraView II software. Yes, I had to wait for the damn CD to get the software after buying it on-line.
But the absolutely crazy thing was, the newer updated versions of the software were available for download! And (I believe) they are complete installs, not just the updated files. I think the NEC USA site said that all you needed was a legit serial number. What's so friggin difficult about sending me a s/n on-line?
Sheesh.
Paul
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But the absolutely crazy thing was, the newer updated versions of the software were available for download! And (I believe) they are complete installs, not just the updated files. =
Sure does. I just updated my version today. Go to the site, download, you're done. Of course it detects a legitimate serial number. But the point is, they could sell you a serial number and allow you to download the software, all from the web. No need for that silly CD.
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I just got a factory refurbished NEC LCD2690WUXi for $723 from Tech For Less, a Colorado company. NEC offers a one year factory warranty for refurbs. I'm buying an X-Rite i1Display 2 and you can download the SpectraViewII from NEC ($89?), so it will be similar to the 2690 SVII setup for under $1000. This seems like a fabulous deal for a large critical color monitor setup with hardware calibration and electronic color stability adjustment. The Tech for Less web site says they still have about 30 2690 refurbs in stock. Mine arrived yesterday, I haven't tested it yet because I don't have the calibrator yet. The refurb packaging is minimal- you have to download the manual and buy your own DVI cable. I'll report back here if there's any problems with it.
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IThe refurb packaging is minimal- you have to download the manual and buy your own DVI cable. I'll report back here if there's any problems with it.
Please do. I've been really interested in these, but hesitant to buy refurb from other than the manufacturer.
Update: I just checked on the Tech for Less web site, and warranty is stated to be 90 days. Also checked NEC web site, and indeed they offer 1-year warranty, but I believe it is only if you buy it from them. They sell the set directly for $699. Also note that this is the previous generation of this display. The new ones (with a "2" attached to the model number) are $1044 refurbished at Tech for Less.
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Back for another question. The previous generation 2690 is rated at 91% of AdobeRGB, compared with 97.8% for the current 2690. More is better, but can I assume that previous 2690 is still better than most anything else available? $699 for a refurbished display is quite a bargain I think.
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More is better...
Not necessarily! In fact, for some users, depending on the kinds of images they edit, less is much better.
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Well, I may as well get all of my questions out now. Jeff stated a few posts back the the current 30-inch ACDs are not as good as they used to be. That's really too bad, because they do make life a lot simpler with easy connection to the computer and USB and Firewire ports in the back. I did some searching and found that the Dell Ultrasharp 3007WFP-HC seems to compare favorably to the ACD, with a more uniform screen and wider gamut (92% of NTSC). It doesn't have any Firewire ports but does have four USB ports. It costs less than a 2690 and much less than an 30-inch ACD. Is it worth considering?
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Not necessarily! In fact, for some users, depending on the kinds of images they edit, less is much better.
Oh Andrew, why did you have to go and confuse me even more! OK, so for someone like me, an amateur photographer, but serious about it, who needs nothing more than getting a pretty close match between screen and print (an R2400) do I want or need more or less? I've been reasonably content with a 20-inch ACD for the last four years, but I certainly can see it's deficiencies.
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Oh Andrew, why did you have to go and confuse me even more! OK, so for someone like me, an amateur photographer, but serious about it, who needs nothing more than getting a pretty close match between screen and print (an R2400) do I want or need more or less? I've been reasonably content with a 20-inch ACD for the last four years, but I certainly can see it's deficiencies.
Do you work with images with saturated colors, those that exceed greatly sRGB OR images with very subtle and important colors that need editing within the sRGB gamut?
Wider is "better" for the first case, not the 2nd.
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NEC is out of stock on the 2690 refurbs, probably forever. The ones sold by Tech for Less are "Factory Refurbs", the 90 day warranty on their web site is not accurate, it is actually one year. NEC confirmed this for me on the phone, Tech for Less is a factory authorized dealer.
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NEC is out of stock on the 2690 refurbs, probably forever. The ones sold by Tech for Less are "Factory Refurbs", the 90 day warranty on their web site is not accurate, it is actually one year. NEC confirmed this for me on the phone, Tech for Less is a factory authorized dealer.
Thanks for the information.
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I'm back to comment on my experiences with the 30-inch ACD and the 2690.
I found that Apple has refurbished ACDs at a very nice discount, so I decided to take a chance on one. I found that the display behaved pretty much exactly like my 20-inch ACD, but with one big difference: because it is so large, the angle between my eyes and the corners of the screen were large enough that particularly in the lower corners, image quality fell of quite substantially. It wasn't noticeable with bright material, but for dark material it looked like there were spotlights on the corners. The other problem was that it was just too big. The lack of vertical position adjustment put the menu bar too high.
So the ACD went back and was replaced with a refurbished 2690. Image quality is excellent with no apparent off-angle problems. As well this turns out to be the perfect size display for me. With larger text it can sit a bit further back and still be easily read by my tired old eyes, and it can be adjusted so that the menu bar is not too high. Esthetically it's a big step backwards have a big piece of black plastic replacing the elegant aluminum ACD, but I'll have to get over that.