Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: vandevanterSH on June 29, 2009, 12:48:16 pm
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Hasselblad is now offering a CFV39 back for "V" series cameras. It appears to be a modified CF39 adapted to "V"series. It will give a 29 MP square and 39 MP rectangular image. I guess Hasselblad hasn't totally given up on it's "legacy" systems.
Steve
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and 64 seconds exposure
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Steve, please no jokes on this topic, please. Link?
Eduardo
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http://www.hasselblad.com/news/hasselblad-...gital-back.aspx (http://www.hasselblad.com/news/hasselblad-debuts-cfv-39-digital-back.aspx)
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Thank you. I got it. It is true. I wonder if this back can be used both horizontal and vertical in rectangular.
I'm affraid, I'm going to have a hell of an anticlimax. Hope not. Fingers crossed.
Eduardo
http://www.hasselblad.com/news/hasselblad-...gital-back.aspx (http://www.hasselblad.com/news/hasselblad-debuts-cfv-39-digital-back.aspx)
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I guess that Hasselblad marketing decided that there was still some money to be made from the "V" series. In addition to the hardware, they also added digital lens corrections for the Zeiss lenses. I think the CFV39 is a logical move as the chances for a "full frame" square format back are nil. I should mention that the "lens factor" of 1.5 is unchanged from the CFVII when using the square format.
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I wonder why one would go for this instead of the ordinary CF model that can adapt to several different cameras... is it because of the lack of some sort of cable or similar benefit?
http://hasselblad.com/products/digital-bac...-and-cf-ms.aspx (http://hasselblad.com/products/digital-backs/cf-and-cf-ms.aspx)
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I wonder why one would go for this instead of the ordinary CF model that can adapt to several different cameras... is it because of the lack of some sort of cable or similar benefit?
http://hasselblad.com/products/digital-bac...-and-cf-ms.aspx (http://hasselblad.com/products/digital-backs/cf-and-cf-ms.aspx)
Hi Julius
Hasselblad has had numerous requests for a higher resolution back using the same housing as the CFV. The magazine's housing is based on the traditional V system cameras with black leatherette and chrome trim. It offers cable free operation with the 500 series and modified 202, 203, 205 series bodies and F/FE lenses.
If a photographer does have multiple platforms then the CFII series digital magazine would be a better option.
Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA
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a full frame square format back is my dream
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I remember years ago, Bronica came with a 6X7 camera to compete with Mamiya's RB and RZ. Ths camera was an all-time eye level camera. Some people said it was a good thing because it saved some weight. Good thing for an all ready heavy format camera! Well, it turned out to be a flop. Very few people bought it. Nobody wanted a camera this big to be handle as a lighter 645. Because it wasn't light! Eventually Bronica stopped production.
Hasselblad's decision to come with a rectangular sensor for the V cameras that doesn't rotate seems to me a total non-sense. If Hasselblad thinks that we photographers are such suckers for beauty, that we will fall for a stupid design just because it looks good on our cameras, I have news for them. My savings still are for a Phase One or Sinar or Leaf.
Hasselblad deserves an award. "Prankster of the decade"
Eduardo
a full frame square format back is my dream
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What I want to know is.... how much $?
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I'm not going to sell my SWC903 now!
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This is fantastic; it is great to see Hasselblad keeping the V series alive. Woot for the 205 with the 110.
Is the modification to use with the 203/205 cameras the same one that is already done, disabling the film back auto ISO capabilities?
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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, Henry but the quote below was taken from the Hasselblad website
" Not recommended for critical work together with SWC models and ArcBody due to optical incompatibility. Some earlier SWC models need slight modification for battery mounting reasons. "
Mark
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we have just to wait for Photokina 2010 to get a FF square sensor
a question to Paul Claesson or David Grover : Longest shutter speed: 64 seconds , then why Hasselblad is not doing a firmware to get 64 seconds on H3D bodies too ??
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What I want to know is.... how much $?
The Price is 9.995 EUR!
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Can be interesting
only the price will make it "survive"
I wonder what Hasselblad will ask for it
My guess: 15.000€
But if they do not go below 10.000€, they will not sell much I'm afraid...
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10000 including VAT is a good price
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This is fantastic; it is great to see Hasselblad keeping the V series alive. Woot for the 205 with the 110.
Is the modification to use with the 203/205 cameras the same one that is already done, disabling the film back auto ISO capabilities?
Yes, this is the same modification to the 202/203/205 bodies which allowed the FE lenses to be used.
USING A MODIFIED 200 SERIES CAMERA WITH A CFV DIGITAL BACK
Please note the following practical points when using a 200 series camera modified for cable free
use with CFV digital backs:
• The cable-free solution only functions in conjunction with either:
F and FE lenses or CF/CFi/CFE lenses set in F-mode
• CF lenses can still be used in C-mode but a flash sync cable must be connected between the PC-
socket on the lens and the CFV digital back (see CFV manual for details).
Please note that using CF lenses in C-mode therefore does not require any modification to the
camera, only a flash sync cable connection.
• One consequence of the modification is that there is no data transfer of ISO setting from film
magazine or digital back. This means that the ISO dial on E magazines (and the zone system dial in
the case of older TCC magazines) will no longer function when connected to a modified camera body.
However, ISO settings can easily be made on the camera body instead.
• When using a CFV digital back, an ISO setting has to be made both on the body and on the back.
• Auto bracketing is not possible with a modified 203FE and CFV digital magazine, as the capture rate
of the CFV back is slower than the capture rate of the 203FE would be with film.
Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA
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we have just to wait for Photokina 2010 to get a FF square sensor
a question to Paul Claesson or David Grover : Longest shutter speed: 64 seconds , then why Hasselblad is not doing a firmware to get 64 seconds on H3D bodies too ??
This is coming very soon.
David
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a very very good new !!!
thanks
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64 sec with H3D - whatever soon means.
they sayed "coming soon" about to years ago, too.
ok, next winter i need it definitely.
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I'm not going to sell my SWC903 now!
It will be nice to get almost the full width of the Biogon 38mm. Just need an easy way to mask the viewfinder for a rectangle.
Steve
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David or Paul,
Could either one of you clarify the statement on Hasselblad's website that states that
the new back is not recommended for critical work with the SWC series or ArcBody.
I have used both systems with Leaf Aptus and Phase P45 backs and didn't have any issues
apart from expected color shift that was correctible in each backs respective software.
Is this the only issue that a user of Arc or SWC cameras might expect?
Thanks,
Mark
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Could either one of you clarify the statement on Hasselblad's website that states that
the new back is not recommended for critical work with the SWC series or ArcBody.
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I would also be interested in the answer. The "not recommended" began with the CFVII. I have seen speculation that the new IR filter in the CFVII may create color casts at the edges of images taken with non-retrofocused lenses such as the Biogon 38mm.
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I recently got a square Hasselblad to shoot with film, not really intending to use it in a non-analogue way, but, what about this idea:
A classic mount mechanical leaf shutter C lens that would be the equivalent of what Nikon calls "DX", or reduced image circle - just sufficient to cover 645 - optimized for digital capture ant a reasonable price (same as DX lenses that are not larger or more expensive that non-DX ones), say, a 28mm and a 35mm.
I understand that we are all waiting for the 6x6 sensor and line of backs, but one thing doesn't get in the way of the other. It would be an option for all the existing V mount that have a 645 or smaller sensor size.
Same for Mamiya RZ. And they (Mamiya RZ: could you do an arc-body please?)
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Could either one of you clarify the statement on Hasselblad's website that states that
the new back is not recommended for critical work with the SWC series or ArcBody.
************
I would also be interested in the answer. The "not recommended" began with the CFVII. I have seen speculation that the new IR filter in the CFVII may create color casts at the edges of images taken with non-retrofocused lenses such as the Biogon 38mm.
To answer your question I attach the following PDF.
It is a matter of edge to edge sharpness in demanding applications that may be an issue.
I say 'may' as many customers are very happy with the performance of the SWC in using 39MP and larger sensors so it is really your decision regarding the purchase. We make the statement just to make sure nobody is mislead.
Best,
David
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Thanks for the PDF, David.
The potential edge sharpness issues that are explained within would appear to be most prominent
in user applications where wide open apertures are required.
Would it be a safe assumption to say that for landscape use where apertures between, say, f 11 to f 16
were the target then the edge sharpness issues would be a relative non-issue.
If I was satisfied with prior results using Arc or SWC in conjunction with other DB's then I should expect no less
with this new back from Hasselblad.
Mark
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Thanks for the PDF, David.
The potential edge sharpness issues that are explained within would appear to be most prominent
in user applications where wide open apertures are required.
Would it be a safe assumption to say that for landscape use where apertures between, say, f 11 to f 16
were the target then the edge sharpness issues would be a relative non-issue.
If I was satisfied with prior results using Arc or SWC in conjunction with other DB's then I should expect no less
with this new back from Hasselblad.
Mark
Hi Mark,
No problem,
Yes I think your assumptions are safe. There is no reason that there would be any less performance with the CFV back compared to other backs.
Best,
David
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So if you're using the square option the lens factor is increased by 50%?
Also I assume this will work without any cables with my 2000 FC/M?
Thanks!
PS: what is the US price for this back?
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Josef,
For 200 and 2000 Series cameras
The 201F and all 2000 series cameras are a mechanical focal plane shutter cameras and do not have
built in exposure metering as the 202, 203 and 205 cameras do. Therefore they can not be modified
by Hasselblad for cable free operation with the CFV.
You can use the 201F, 202FA, 203FE, 205TCC, 205FCC and 2000FC, 2000FCM, 2000FCW and
2003FCW cameras with your F and FE lenses with the Hasselblad CFV and use the focal plane
shutter with speeds up to 1/2000th shutter speed provided you use a Kapture group
One-Shot HA-001 Cable Release.
There are three leads on the One-Shot release that need to be connected to the body and back.
1. Connection to Shutter Release button on the 200 series body.
2. Connection to Flash Synch port of the 200 series body.
3. Connection to the Flash Synch in port on the CFV magazine.
Kapture Group (http://www.kapturegroup.com)
Price is: USD $13,995.
Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA
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10000 including VAT is a good price
Eric
10.000 including VAT is not quite correct .
My information from HASSELBLAD Germany is , that the price will be 9.995 + VAT , which is currently 19% in Germany .
Also I read , that the longest exposure time will be 64 secs
In the datasheets , it says 32 secs. Might be a typo , as I have found two other typos as well .
Anyway , I think , it is a fairly good price .
I am not going to wait for a bigger square sensor any longer . You know , that I have given up hope for that .
But for my kind of work , the CFV-39 is just the best I can go for and which is currently on the market .
Therefore , I have placed an order for that back .
Delivery will be in August (hopefully)
I am very much looking forward to get that back .
Jürgen
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Jürgen When you get it i'll be very interested by your opinion
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Alll good things but in my opinion in complete denial of the V spirit, which by the way it is no news considering it is coming from "modern" Hasselblad. It is only competition for the H system.
Eduardo
Eric
10.000 including VAT is not quite correct .
My information from HASSELBLAD Germany is , that the price will be 9.995 + VAT , which is currently 19% in Germany .
Also I read , that the longest exposure time will be 64 secs
In the datasheets , it says 32 secs. Might be a typo , as I have found two other typos as well .
Anyway , I think , it is a fairly good price .
I am not going to wait for a bigger square sensor any longer . You know , that I have given up hope for that .
But for my kind of work , the CFV-39 is just the best I can go for and which is currently on the market .
Therefore , I have placed an order for that back .
Delivery will be in August (hopefully)
I am very much looking forward to get that back .
Jürgen
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I've tried a number of medium format systems for nature photography and had all but given up.
I had explored a project getting a Phase One P45+ to work with a Hasselblad 203FE in focal plane shutter mode, but in the end decided it would be too much work. But now this--a cable-free high resolution digital V-series camera!
Very tempting...
A few questions for the Hasselblad?
1) This back is shipping when?
2) I noticed there is no DAC available for any of the FE series lenses. I assume this was a business decision based on the numbers of these lenses out there, and not a technical limitation? If I did take the plunge a number of my lenses would be FE, and I'd like to know if there's even a chance that they could one day benefit from DAC.
3) Is the back available in black trim?
4) I assume for portrait orientation 4:3 shots, the back must be removed, rotated 90 degrees and reattached?
5) Is lens information included in the CFV metadata? (CFE/FE lenses of course)
6) What happens with DAC when a 1.4x TC is used?
7) Shooting in crop mode is simply a metadata setting that Phocus respects? ie. If I have the camera set to shoot square, and change my mind in post, can I still "reveal" the full 4:3 shot?
8) What is the LiveView story for the CFV39?
9) Who should I contact to arrange for a test drive? (I am based in Seattle, WA).
Thanks,
-Brad
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4) I assume for portrait orientation 4:3 shots, the back must be removed, rotated 90 degrees and reattached?
I doubt if this is possible.
You might have to put the camera on it's side.
Not very practical.
Also issues with the mask on the ground glass.
That's what I didn't like about the Hy6.
Regards,
Willem.
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Phase does this on the V, so it's definitely possible, I wonder if Hassy did this or not?
Since writing these questions, I've read preliminary reports that the back is not rotatable... I hate pulling my back off in the middle of the shoot as much as the next guy, but not even having the choice to leave it in, say portrait orientation makes it awfully tough for the WLF lover!
The Hy6 mask from Sinar was like a big + sign in the viewfinder--I found this difficult to use. But I modified one of my phase Hassy V masks and dropped it in--it gives full rectangle lines for both portrait and landscape--I found that *much* easier to use, personally.
4) I assume for portrait orientation 4:3 shots, the back must be removed, rotated 90 degrees and reattached?
I doubt if this is possible.
You might have to put the camera on it's side.
Not very practical.
Also issues with the mask on the ground glass.
That's what I didn't like about the Hy6.
Regards,
Willem.
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I am enjoying my CFV11 on a 205TCC system - since the new 39 megapixel back still maintains a 1.5X crop - the extra megapixels aren't of much use to me. Also in real world use the FAT BOY 9 micron pixels on CFV11 are more kind and forgiving (on lets face it) very old tech glass in F/FE form. As a wildlife shooting machine I have to say - I couldn't think of anything more clunky or ill conceived than a huge mirror slapped system like the 200+ series - maybe an RZ system would be even less appropriate. -
Still it isnt the camera or lens it is always the photographer and there is no denying if you like using something - irrespective of how theoretically inappropriate it may be - you have a much better chance of getting the images you want.
I am really enjoying the Schneiders Bradley - they are truly wonderful lenses. if you are serious about going the CF route drop me a line I have a bunch of F/FE lenses in mint condition and boxes as well as a modified 205TCC and a bunch of stuff I would be happy to sell. I am extremely happy with the Hy6 and Schneider lenses btw and the Sinar back has been a revelation int terms of file quality - much like my M8 actually punches Way above its theoretical weight - probably no surprise since the same company does the software for both systems.
Cheers
Pete
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Brad, someone mentioned in another thread that you can attach the back sideways on the correct I-Adapter. I would look into that. I presume it is the same setup which works for the CF backs.
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I've tried a number of medium format systems for nature photography and had all but given up.
I had explored a project getting a Phase One P45+ to work with a Hasselblad 203FE in focal plane shutter mode, but in the end decided it would be too much work. But now this--a cable-free high resolution digital V-series camera!
Very tempting...
A few questions for the Hasselblad?
1) This back is shipping when?
2) I noticed there is no DAC available for any of the FE series lenses. I assume this was a business decision based on the numbers of these lenses out there, and not a technical limitation? If I did take the plunge a number of my lenses would be FE, and I'd like to know if there's even a chance that they could one day benefit from DAC.
3) Is the back available in black trim?
4) I assume for portrait orientation 4:3 shots, the back must be removed, rotated 90 degrees and reattached?
5) Is lens information included in the CFV metadata? (CFE/FE lenses of course)
6) What happens with DAC when a 1.4x TC is used?
7) Shooting in crop mode is simply a metadata setting that Phocus respects? ie. If I have the camera set to shoot square, and change my mind in post, can I still "reveal" the full 4:3 shot?
8) What is the LiveView story for the CFV39?
9) Who should I contact to arrange for a test drive? (I am based in Seattle, WA).
Thanks,
-Brad
Wth a 50/2.8, a 80/2.8, a 110/2.0, a 150/2.8 and a 250/4 for my 203FE, you might understand that I double or tripple or quadrupple your questions and are as eager for answers! In other word, good questions!
Bas
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Hi Brad
A few questions for the Hasselblad?
1) This back is shipping when?
I expect the CV39 to ship in August 2009.
2) I noticed there is no DAC available for any of the FE series lenses. I assume this was a business decision based on the numbers of these lenses out there, and not a technical limitation? If I did take the plunge a number of my lenses would be FE, and I'd like to know if there's even a chance that they could one day benefit from DAC.
Hasselblad offered the most popular or most commonly used lenses in the V line. I think there is excellent coverage from 40mm to 350mm. Granted the 250 and 350mm are SA and are unique in their own right. The quantities of F/FE lenses sold are far fewer then those the V system.
It does take a great deal of time for our optical specialist to make these calculations and this is one reason why we have not mapped al optics that were manufactured many decades ago. I will inquire regarding possible future additions.
3) Is the back available in black trim?
No
4) I assume for portrait orientation 4:3 shots, the back must be removed, rotated 90 degrees and reattached?
The CFV has one orientation: landscape. If you wish to compose in portrait/vertical position then i suggest utilizing an HC 3, HC 4, RM 2 viewfinder. Of course you can use a waistlevel finder or a 45 degree prism but this may be a little difficult to work with.
5) Is lens information included in the CFV metadata? (CFE/FE lenses of course)
No
6) What happens with DAC when a 1.4x TC is used?
Yes, you can use DAC but the 1.4x tele-converter has not been included as a selectable option and is therefore not included in the lens calculations.
7) Shooting in crop mode is simply a metadata setting that Phocus respects? ie. If I have the camera set to shoot square, and change my mind in post, can I still "reveal" the full 4:3 shot?
Yes and Yes
8) What is the LiveView story for the CFV39?
I imagine that Live Video will be available as it is with the CFVII and CFII backs.
9) Who should I contact to arrange for a test drive? (I am based in Seattle, WA).
You can contacts Glazer's in Seattle, they are an autorized Hasselblad dealer or follow this link for Hasselblad regional manager (http://www.hasselbladusa.com/about-hasselblad/partner-locator/united-states/washington-.aspx).
Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA
V Lens Correction:
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Thank you for the reply, Paul. You even managed to indirectly answer a question I had not even asked! Namely the PM-90 viewfinder is incompatible with the CFV backs? (If so, as an fyi, the hasselblad web page on the PM90 mentions incompatibility with the 70mm and Polaroid backs but makes no mention of the CFV.)
Thanks again for the Paul. I'll give this new option some serious consideration.
Best regards,
Brad
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Thank you for the reply, Paul. You even managed to indirectly answer a question I had not even asked! Namely the PM-90 viewfinder is incompatible with the CFV backs? (If so, as an fyi, the hasselblad web page on the PM90 mentions incompatibility with the 70mm and Polaroid backs but makes no mention of the CFV.)
Thanks again for the Paul. I'll give this new option some serious consideration.
Best regards,
Brad
Hi Brad
The PM-90 and PME90 viewfinders are incompatible with the CFV back.
These viewfinders where designed at a time when A12/16/24/32 film magazines were in common use on our 200, 500 and 900 series cameras.
"fyi, the hasselblad web page on the PM90 mentions incompatibility with the 70mm and Polaroid backs but makes no mention of the CFV."
Thank you for this observation, i will pass this onto our webmaster.
Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA
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Which 90° finders will work with the 203FE and the CFV? I've found that in addition to the PM/PME-90, the RM-2. HC3/70, HC-3 and HC-2 won't fit either... Is this correct?
(I think I saw somewhere that NASA had some HC3/70's modified to fit the 203FE -- or maybe they're available in a 203FE-compatible mount). Any idea where to find one of these? I'd prefer the RM-2 followed by the HC3/70 if either can be made to work.
Thanks, Paul, or anyone who has some ideas on this,
-Brad
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Hi V-users!
Have you seen this page?
http://www.hasselblad.com/planet-v/start.aspx (http://www.hasselblad.com/planet-v/start.aspx)
O.R.
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May be you folks already know this, but I got this e-mail today......
The new CFV-39 digital back offers an impressive 39mp (111mb) CCD image sensor made by Kodak. Offering larger files, wider dynamic range and millions of more color shades than any 35mm digital systems. Hasselblad is offering the CFV-39 for only $13,995. This price is a little bit more than a 35mm digital system but $10,000 less expensive than Phase One's equivalent digital back, the P45+.
Hasselblad has been able to bring the supererior high quality of the 39mp sensor to a price-point that is more affordable to those who may be considering a 35mm digital system. This is great news for shooters who love their older Hasselblad cameras and Zeiss lenses but want the best digital at a reasonable price.
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Why will the PM-90 not fit? Is a mechanical reason? If so, can it be modified to fit?
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The PM-90 and PME90 viewfinders are incompatible with the CFV back.
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Could you explain why? I have a 45 but not a 90. The size of the backs and "button" latch of the CFV and A12 appear to be the same profile. Pictures of the 90 in Nordin's book don't help me either.
Steve
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I think it's a size issue. As you can see the viewfinder needs to curve over the back. The CVF back is simply to big for the viewfinder. The dimensions of the CVF looks closer to a 70mm back than a 120.
[attachment=15294:22363543...c9dcb68b.jpg] [attachment=15293:Picture_2.png]
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Even if it did fit, it looks like the PM/PM-E 90 might block the top of the CFV screen as well.
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I think it's a size issue. As you can see the viewfinder needs to curve over the back.
**********
Thanks..the picture of the PME-90 in the Nordin book looks like the under surface is flat, unlike the PM-90 picture. It looks to be a PITA with an A12 and PM90 with removing the magazine. I guess it limits the film reload to an attached magazine. I have a PME-45 and that combined with a 503 CWD + Winder is very ergonomic in "portrait" mode. I wish that I could justify adding the CFV39 to the "kit".
Steve
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Seeing the Euro 10000 price for the CFV-39 what would be a good deal for a CFV II? I see one on eBay for Euro 6000 brand new with 2 year warranty. Is this a good deal or better wait and pay 4000 more for the 39? Any advice welcome.
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I had a good look at my PM90 finder. The size of the chrome plate that slides into the camera body is 65 X 69 mm. This plate is screwed into the base of the PM90. This plate could easily be rotated 45 degrees (need a few new screw holes drilled in it). Unfortunately, the base (plastic) of the PM90 is 65 X 67 mm so 2 mm would have to be shaved off one side and then the unit would fit sideways.
In other words, if the PM90 could be fitted sideways then we could tilt the body (or for tripod use get a bracket) and use the CFV-39 in portrait mode. Then, 1.1 lens factor and the full resolution.
Anyone here who has some engineering know-how who could add his opinion? Any thoughts?
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Paul: How well will the digital correction for 1985 vintage CF 50, 80 150 and CF180 (circa whenever it was first released) work ?
I understood that these lenses were optically the same as more current ones (with the exception of 50mm nonFLE/FLE)