Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: RichFisher on June 27, 2009, 03:11:39 PM

Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: RichFisher on June 27, 2009, 03:11:39 PM
I am interested in upgrading my Epson 2400 to either a 17" or 24" wide printer.  Part of the decision will be finding room for a 24" and how much better the 24 is 17 (and how badly I want the bigger toy versus the size/cost trade off).

Both roll and sheet feed is important to me, the smallest sheet I can imagine using is letter size (8x10) except for holiday cards.  Thus I have ruled out the Epson 3800 (no roll feed).

I print mostly glossy prints but have done some prints on Harmon Gloss FB AI.  Volume of printing is light and irregular.  I can go a week or 2 w/o printing anything and they make 3-4 13x19 (will be larger in the future) in 1 night (plus smaller test prints).  in  a month I will print 30-50 prints (counting test prints) though occasionally go over this.

While I would like to get the printer this summer, I am somewhat flexible about the timing (early 2010 is the latest I will wait).

Any suggestions/thoughts/recommendations on the printer or where to look for info/reputable reviews would be great.

Thanks,

Rich
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: JohnBrew on June 27, 2009, 03:29:09 PM
Some of us who used the 2200, 2400 series Epsons have been very happy with upgrading to the 3800.
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: RichFisher on June 27, 2009, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: JohnBrew
Some of us who used the 2200, 2400 series Epsons have been very happy with upgrading to the 3800.

John

Yes I agree that the Epson 3800 is very attractive, especially at its current price.

However I print pans and need roll feed for that.

Do you have work around to feed paper for a pan on the 3800?

I guess I could cut roll paper into a 17 x 50 for a 16x48 pan -- but sure if I could feed it without problem creasing.   Thoughts/other opinions?

T
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: dseelig on June 27, 2009, 03:56:28 PM
I have got a hp z3100 which I love. I had a epson 7600 great printer but, it goes through alot of ink without using it . Apparently so do all the newer epsons. The hp just works no clogging issues and it is miserly with ink. Do not know about ht canons have not used them also the hp is great for black and white. The epsons if not used a lot tend to clog where as the hp does not. David
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: Dick Roadnight on June 27, 2009, 05:07:06 PM
Quote from: RichFisher
I am interested in upgrading my Epson 2400 to either a 17" or 24" wide printer.  Part of the decision will be finding room for a 24" and how much better the 24 is 17 (and how badly I want the bigger toy versus the size/cost trade off).

Both roll and sheet feed is important to me,
You have not told us what camera you have, if you stitch up to what size, what you do with the prints or hardly anything.

I bought an Epson 7900 and colorburst, because I wanted no-compromise top quality gallery prints from 100 Mpx top quality files...
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: Ken Bennett on June 27, 2009, 08:04:08 PM
Paper handling: One of my colleagues has an Epson 4000 series and also a 3800. She uses the 3800 to print cards and small prints, and the 4000 to print from roll paper. Her 4000-series won't print cut sheets smaller than 8x10 and the 3800 won't print longer than 36 or 38 inches. So she needs and uses both.

Size: I got the 3800 two years ago. When I was working in a wet darkroom, I rarely printed larger than 11x14, and that was a "big" print. For me, anyway. I can count on one hand the number of 16x20-inch prints I ever made.

So I got the 17-inch printer thinking that I would print 11x17 max size, with the ability to print the occasional 16x20.  But now I can go downstairs and make a 16x24 inch print in a few minutes. No mess, no chemicals, no giant trays. Now the 17 inch printer seems too small -- I wish I had a 24 inch printer.

So think carefully about what you are printing and why, and what your long-term needs might be. I know I would be printing 24x36 if I had the larger printer.
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: David Sutton on June 27, 2009, 08:04:44 PM
If you want to print big you are probably not going to be happy with anything less than a 24" printer. The 3800 is limited to 37". To go longer you can try the "User defined paper size utility" from http://dahmerphotography.blogspot.com/ (http://dahmerphotography.blogspot.com/)   It requires an earlier driver. My solution is to have this driver on my laptop and print from that for panos. Cut the paper from the roll allowing an extra three inches or so as the last bit of the paper will never flatten completely and you will get head strike there as it exits. Put the cut paper through a de-roller first, and store flat for a few days before using.
David
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: Jim Pascoe on June 28, 2009, 06:54:41 AM
Rich

I have had a Canon ipf6100 24" printer for about a year and a half now and find it excellent.  If you need to make big prints, 24" is the way to go.  The Canon has worked flawlessly for me, and it does get quite a lot of use.  Many of my prints are small, but as I have to print a lot, I tile them up in Lightroom templates and print them on the roll paper.  Sometimes I can get through a 30m roll of paper in a few days.  Which is my only concern, as you are doing much lower volume.  How will the ink stand up to long term storage in the printer?  Since Feb 08, I have changed the Grey cart 11 times, the Photo Grey cart 4 times, and the Blue and Photo Cyan only once.  That probably covers about 18 30-metre rolls, plus hundreds of A4 and A3 sheets.
At you volume, the lesser used cartridges could be in place for the lifetime of the printer!

The printer is big, and very heavy.  But I have mine in the office on what is basically a kitchen work-top that is 24" deep.  When in use I open the drawer under the work-top, and slide a couple of long pieces of old mount-card beneath the printer to catch the paper as it emerges.  This setup negates the need to use the separate printer stand and paper catcher.

Jim
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: jcote on June 28, 2009, 06:34:31 PM
Quote from: RichFisher
John

Yes I agree that the Epson 3800 is very attractive, especially at its current price.

Do you have work around to feed paper for a pan on the 3800?

I have a 3800 and it is a nice printer. However, I just reprinted some D3x files which had a very wide color gamut on a friends 7900. What a difference the 2 gamut expanding colors have. I was expecting it to be subtle but it is way more. Also, we printed on Crane's Museo Silver Rag which has been problematic on my 3800. On the new 7900 the ink looks great on this paper with no gloss differential. I am glad my friend lives close to me because otherwise I would probably have to spring for a 7800.
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: neil snape on June 29, 2009, 03:14:09 AM
For test prints the 3800 is a lot easier to do. Takes up a minimum of space.

Yet yesterday I printed out an entire portfolio on one roll both BW and color on my Z3200. I wouldn't be without the Z3200 for printing, the only regrets are small print sizes.
Each printer has it's advantage. All three of these are wonderful> Epson 7900, Canon iPGraf5100, HP Z3200. The Canon is the most versatile, the HP the best at batch printing , the Epson the ultimate in image quality.
I wouldn't have any printer that requires huge ink purges when going to / from MK<>PK so as good as they are the 4880, 78+9880 have to change.
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: RichFisher on June 29, 2009, 08:12:08 AM
Quote from: neil snape
All three of these are wonderful> Epson 7900, Canon iPGraf5100, HP Z3200. The Canon is the most versatile, the HP the best at batch printing , the Epson the ultimate in image quality.
I wouldn't have any printer that requires huge ink purges when going to / from MK<>PK so as good as they are the 4880, 78+9880 have to change.

Thanks - this type of info is very helpful.  Is there a good side by side review of the 3 printers?
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: neil snape on June 29, 2009, 08:36:45 AM
Quote from: RichFisher
Thanks - this type of info is very helpful.  Is there a good side by side review of the 3 printers?

Yes I think Julien Mussi had a comparison of all three. Michael Reichmann also has reviewed the printers at various times. Yet the best reviews are not always side by sides as we all need to take a side so to speak. The problem with reviews are they are often done without intimate knowledge of the printer. You have to live with them for some time before discovering all the ins and outs. MR really does this, lives with the printers , uses them, and finds out a lot by doing so. Yet much of this information doesn't make it into a review. Most of the details though do surface here in the printers topic forum for all three brands. Probably the best site for level balanced posts I know of.
I know the Z3100 very well, and am only now getting to know the Z3200 . It's not much different but generally better in every way than the 3100. I would have liked to have the 79 or 9900 to use too, but I didn't push the issue, and don't have the room yet. I looked at the output many times though. There are people who are really strong in their fields such as Jeff Schewe, Andrew Rodney, Bill Atkinson, Joseph Holmes etc who all work with Epson. Their posts are very valuable, reliable and greatly appreciated as they are the best at sharing info on Epson. Less people use Canon but there are enough here to have all the info one would ever need.

Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: PeterAit on June 29, 2009, 11:17:29 AM
Quote from: RichFisher
I am interested in upgrading my Epson 2400 to either a 17" or 24" wide printer.  Part of the decision will be finding room for a 24" and how much better the 24 is 17 (and how badly I want the bigger toy versus the size/cost trade off).

Both roll and sheet feed is important to me, the smallest sheet I can imagine using is letter size (8x10) except for holiday cards.  Thus I have ruled out the Epson 3800 (no roll feed).

I print mostly glossy prints but have done some prints on Harmon Gloss FB AI.  Volume of printing is light and irregular.  I can go a week or 2 w/o printing anything and they make 3-4 13x19 (will be larger in the future) in 1 night (plus smaller test prints).  in  a month I will print 30-50 prints (counting test prints) though occasionally go over this.

While I would like to get the printer this summer, I am somewhat flexible about the timing (early 2010 is the latest I will wait).

Any suggestions/thoughts/recommendations on the printer or where to look for info/reputable reviews would be great.

Thanks,

Rich

I can't say enough good things about the Epson 4880. 17", roll feed option, gorgeous prints, never a problem or a nozzle clog despite sitting idle for 2-3 weeks at a time, worked perfectly out of the box. It does require manual switching from glossy black to matte black ink, but since I never print on matte paper that is not an issue.

Peter

Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: Mussi_Spectraflow on June 30, 2009, 06:05:52 PM
Rich,

I think that you'll find a lot of answers for the simple fact that there are a lot of good printers that should fit your needs. I've worked quite a bit with both the Epson and HP's and have reviews of the 7900 and Z3200 up online.

http://www.spectraflow.com/index.php?optio...4&Itemid=67 (http://www.spectraflow.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&Itemid=67)
Strictly in terms of the output quality I prefer the Z3200 a bit more than the others. The 7900 is a great machine but may be a bit overkill. I would also consider the 4880 as a good compromise, it will give you roll support where the 3800 does not should provide years of reliable output. If you get to the point where you are really doing a lot of work it would also continue to serve you well as a backup or second printer. Just my 2 cents. Fell free to pm me if you have any questions.
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: Gemmtech on June 30, 2009, 11:23:52 PM
Quote from: Mussi_Spectraflow
Rich,

I think that you'll find a lot of answers for the simple fact that there are a lot of good printers that should fit your needs. I've worked quite a bit with both the Epson and HP's and have reviews of the 7900 and Z3200 up online.

http://www.spectraflow.com/index.php?optio...4&Itemid=67 (http://www.spectraflow.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&Itemid=67)
Strictly in terms of the output quality I prefer the Z3200 a bit more than the others. The 7900 is a great machine but may be a bit overkill. I would also consider the 4880 as a good compromise, it will give you roll support where the 3800 does not should provide years of reliable output. If you get to the point where you are really doing a lot of work it would also continue to serve you well as a backup or second printer. Just my 2 cents. Fell free to pm me if you have any questions.

OK, I pride myself on reading comprehension and am always inquisitive about statements that are made that seem to contradict within the same sentence or paragraph.  You state that "Strictly in terms of the output quality I prefer the Z3200 a bit more than the others."  But then the next sentence you state: " The 7900 is a great machine but may be a bit overkill." What exactly does that mean?  The quality of the Z3200 is better than the 7900?  The Z3200 has better output quality but the 7900 is "Blank" what makes the 7900 "overkill" if the Z3200 has better output quality?  I ask these questions because every review that I have read has stated that the Epson 7900 has the best output quality of any inkjet printer.
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: Phil Indeblanc on June 30, 2009, 11:34:51 PM
Quote from: RichFisher
I am interested in upgrading my Epson 2400 to either a 17" or 24" wide printer.  Part of the decision will be finding room for a 24" and how much better the 24 is 17 (and how badly I want the bigger toy versus the size/cost trade off).

Both roll and sheet feed is important to me, the smallest sheet I can imagine using is letter size (8x10) except for holiday cards.  Thus I have ruled out the Epson 3800 (no roll feed).

I print mostly glossy prints but have done some prints on Harmon Gloss FB AI.  Volume of printing is light and irregular.  I can go a week or 2 w/o printing anything and they make 3-4 13x19 (will be larger in the future) in 1 night (plus smaller test prints).  in  a month I will print 30-50 prints (counting test prints) though occasionally go over this.

While I would like to get the printer this summer, I am somewhat flexible about the timing (early 2010 is the latest I will wait).

Any suggestions/thoughts/recommendations on the printer or where to look for info/reputable reviews would be great.

Thanks,

Rich


When there is a toss up in your mind about size, you better get the larger, and you will wish you had.
Looks like you are very hapy with the Epson, Why switch to something "differnent" or "new".  4880 to 7900 covers your needs.
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: RichFisher on July 01, 2009, 12:14:33 AM
Quote from: Phil Indeblanc
When there is a toss up in your mind about size, you better get the larger, and you will wish you had.
Looks like you are very hapy with the Epson, Why switch to something "differnent" or "new".  4880 to 7900 covers your needs.

Phil,

Size is more than just how large I can print.  It involves unloading and file cabinet and moving the cabinet into storage (plus finding room to store the stuff in the cabinet).  

As far as Epson goes, I have had good luck with them -- I am bit concerned that the 7900 clogs often.  Since I print mostly on glossy paper, the PK to MK is not an issue to me.  Wasted ink is.

Thanks for the thoughts,

Rich
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: Phil Indeblanc on July 01, 2009, 02:42:48 AM
Quote from: RichFisher
Phil,

Size is more than just how large I can print.  It involves unloading and file cabinet and moving the cabinet into storage (plus finding room to store the stuff in the cabinet).  

As far as Epson goes, I have had good luck with them -- I am bit concerned that the 7900 clogs often.  Since I print mostly on glossy paper, the PK to MK is not an issue to me.  Wasted ink is.

Thanks for the thoughts,

Rich


Having said that, if you are OK with few select papers, and you don't mind 80-90 years life... Have you looked at the designjet 130?  It is a desktop 24". It does take a large chunk of desk space (about 33inches but can let some hang off), can be done if you have the length. The front to back is very narrow. It prints via roll, or tray for smaller papers, I believe down to 4x6. A stand is available. I hate to mention it as I kinda wrote about it in another thread, and don't want to sound like I am pushing it. But I use it and can only say my experiences.  It really does come down to what you will use it for.
If you are very critical on color with CMYK, you will need a RIP.  I would look at it and rule it out at least or buy it.
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: RichFisher on July 01, 2009, 07:36:46 AM
Quote from: Phil Indeblanc
... Have you looked at the designjet 130?  It is a desktop 24". If you are very critical on color with CMYK, you will need a RIP.  I would look at it and rule it out at least or buy it.

Thanks - I will check it out.

Rich
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: milt on July 04, 2009, 01:09:09 AM
I faced the 17" vs. 24" decision recently.  While I was trying to decide, I saw a post saying that if you plan to print canvas for wrap-around frames, you really need 24" because leaving 1" for wrap-around cuts you down to 15" on a 17", and that's really too small.

Like you I want to print panos, so I have unboxed a new ipf6100 just this week.

--Milt--
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: Gurglamei on July 04, 2009, 06:16:37 AM
Quote from: RichFisher
Phil,

Size is more than just how large I can print.  It involves unloading and file cabinet and moving the cabinet into storage (plus finding room to store the stuff in the cabinet).

I donīt understand what you mean, so maybe the following is irrelevant, but just my experience:

I am an amature and started off with a small Canon printer just to get a feal for the printing thing. It turn out I really loved printing and I quickly desired to gain more controll, better prints and the ability to print larger. I upgraded to a 17" Epson 4000 with the ability to use roll paper in adition to sheet paper.  I quickly became addicted to seing my images on larger prints and never printed any samller than A3. Since then I only use roll paper of my favorite choice and never miss the sheet option. The few times I need samler prints, it is usually for som family album where I find mail order services quite adequate.

Quite recently I decided to upgrade again and had to choose between a 17, 24 or 44 printer. Although I at the time didnīt do many prints at size A2, when I did I found that there was little room for a border around the image if I wanted it big on my Epson 4000.  Also, the ability to prinnt really large from time to time was very tempting.  To decide what I really needed I actually went to several exhibitions with a measure to se how big I really needed and found that a 24 would do for almost every image i make. If I wanted to print on canvas I would have gone for a 44.

The difference between prints from 24" Canon, Epson and HP printers were to my eye very small. Yes, you can see a difference if you compare, but which is "best" I really canīt tell. Once you get one of these printers home and canīt compare, I seriously doubt you are going to feel you are missing anything.

After reading the review on Spectraflow.com of the  Epson and HP I found they would both be good printers for me.  One thing that made me go for the HP is that it is the second generation of a fairly new printer, since this means they have gained some experience and had the oportunity to improve things that didnīt work. The other is that the HP dealer I use gives much better pre sales service than the Epson dealers, and so far post sale service and support has also been very good.

I took delivery of a HP Z3200ps some months ago, and I am very satisfied with it and the prints it makes.

Christopher
 

Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: neil snape on July 04, 2009, 06:28:17 AM
Quote from: Gurglamei
After reading the review on Spectraflow.com of the  Epson and HP I found they would both be good printers for me.  One thing that made me go for the HP is that it is the second generation of a fairly new printer, since this means they have gained some experience and had the oportunity to improve things that didnīt work. The other is that the HP dealer I use gives much better pre sales service than the Epson dealers, and so far post sale service and support has also been very good.

I took delivery of a HP Z3200ps some months ago, and I am very satisfied with it and the prints it makes.

Christopher


That is exactly what they did. I spent a lot of time working with HP mostly Barcelona with ongoing testing the Z printers first generation. Although I found the first generation very capable there were some points of contention for certain users and usage. HP made some major modifications and many improvements so much so that they deemed it as an important upgrade to launch it as a new model.
So far I am very happy with these improvements, I'm not disappointed at all. As promised the Z3200 is more stable and doesn't need firmware tweaks or corrections to get the job done. Recently there is a firmware that adds features for accounting and paper management but again few bug fixes are needed.

I am currently printing a lot of portfolio on Glossy, for which the Z is king of the castle.....
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: Mussi_Spectraflow on July 06, 2009, 02:02:57 PM
Quote from: Gemmtech
OK, I pride myself on reading comprehension and am always inquisitive about statements that are made that seem to contradict within the same sentence or paragraph.  You state that "Strictly in terms of the output quality I prefer the Z3200 a bit more than the others."  But then the next sentence you state: " The 7900 is a great machine but may be a bit overkill." What exactly does that mean?  The quality of the Z3200 is better than the 7900?  The Z3200 has better output quality but the 7900 is "Blank" what makes the 7900 "overkill" if the Z3200 has better output quality?  I ask these questions because every review that I have read has stated that the Epson 7900 has the best output quality of any inkjet printer.

To clarify. In my opinion the Z3200 delivers slightly better quality in terms of the surface finish on glossy media, Black and White performance, and in usable gamut. On glossy paper I like the HP's results better than the Epson as the Gloss Enhancer creates a really nice finish. The HP ink set is also more neutral than the Epson. In other area's it's pretty much a tie. It's really difficult to say X has better quality than Y, because quality encompasses so many different variables.  It really depends on what you need from the printers, otherwise comparing the 7900 and 3200 is like comparing german sports cars with italian sports cars, unless you really push them it may be hard to appreciate the qualities of either option. The 7900 may be overkill in the sense that many of the "features" are best appreciated when the printer is really being used in a high volume environment. If you only print a dozen prints a month will it matter that the 7900 is faster than the Z3200, or that you can use the 700 ml ink tanks? If you never print on canvas the new cutter will not be a big selling point, and if all your doing is printing on matte papers the expanded gamut compared to the 7880 may not be that big of a deal. So if you intend to only do low volume printing I would think that the Z3200 would be a good fit, if you need to do high volume printing then you may benefit more from the feature set of the 7900. Hope that makes more sense.
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: abiggs on July 06, 2009, 05:58:44 PM
Well said, Julian. I have a Z3200 and a Canon iPF8100, and at least as those printers are concered they are totally different animals that are suited towards different needs. I almost exclusively use the Canon for canvas, as it has a great built in cutter. I also use it for larger print jobs for ink economy and speed. The Z3200 is incredible for toned black and white images, as the printer driver can control the toning in the shadows, mids and highs separately. And I love the gloss enhancer. The 7900 is a wonderful printer, and probably a better printer for those who wish to have an easy out-of-the-box experience. Less tweaking, as well, but most people don't need or want the functionality.
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: Gurglamei on July 09, 2009, 05:57:45 PM
Quote from: abiggs
The Z3200 is incredible for toned black and white images, as the printer driver can control the toning in the shadows, mids and highs separately.

I am new to black and white and have just finished my first print on my z3200. I converted with channel mixer in photoshop and printed the resulting image as usual. However, I understand you use some options in the printer driver. In the color tab I find the option to print in grayscale, but not the other options you mention.  Could you please explain this a bit more or advise me where to look for more information?

Christopher
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: Ernst Dinkla on July 10, 2009, 03:10:54 AM
Quote from: Gurglamei
I am new to black and white and have just finished my first print on my z3200. I converted with channel mixer in photoshop and printed the resulting image as usual. However, I understand you use some options in the printer driver. In the color tab I find the option to print in grayscale, but not the other options you mention.  Could you please explain this a bit more or advise me where to look for more information?

Christopher

On the driver menu page where you can set greyscale there is an advanced menu choice. If greyscale is chosen the advanced choices menu changes accordingly. Tools for B&W color toning, gamma etc are then available.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html (http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html)
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: neil snape on July 10, 2009, 03:24:33 AM
One option that is missed is a grey inks only switch.  Now if you use printer colour management and greyscale the built in lut are neutral so much so I can't find any composite colour.  Yet if I pass through Photoshop manages colour and an APS custom profile from a Tc 9.18 chart some blue dots are added. Since the blue dots volume are larger than the grey inks they are apparent, but worse is the effect of grey balance failure in varying light.
It would be nice to convert any colour signals into grey plots.

Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: Gurglamei on July 10, 2009, 04:48:58 AM
Quote from: Ernst Dinkla
On the driver menu page where you can set greyscale there is an advanced menu choice. If greyscale is chosen the advanced choices menu changes accordingly. Tools for B&W color toning, gamma etc are then available.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html (http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html)

Thank you! Looks interesting and I am looking forward to trying it out.  I see that the box for "Application manages color" is still active. Am I assuming right then that

1) when an image is converted to black and white in photoshop, to the printer it is still a color image and,
2) selecting the grayscale box is necessary to make the printer interpret the image file using only the black and gray inks?

3) using the advanced options makes the printer add some color toning to the black and gray inks, and that using this is a bit of trail and error to find an expression I like for my images?
4) Printing black and white images toned in Photoshop must be done without checking the "Print in grayscale" box, and then it is hard to controll which colors it uses in addition to balck and gray?

EDIT:
Thanks to you too Neil, I didnīt see your post before after i wrote this and from what you write 2) is not correct, but what is than the use of the print in grayscale box?


Christopher
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: neil snape on July 10, 2009, 05:19:38 AM
Quote from: Gurglamei
Thank you! Looks interesting and I am looking forward to trying it out.  I see that the box for "Application manages color" is still active. Am I assuming right then that

1) when an image is converted to black and white in photoshop, to the printer it is still a color image and,
2) selecting the grayscale box is necessary to make the printer interpret the image file using only the black and gray inks?

3) using the advanced options makes the printer add some color toning to the black and gray inks, and that using this is a bit of trail and error to find an expression I like for my images?
4) Printing black and white images toned in Photoshop must be done without checking the "Print in grayscale" box, and then it is hard to controll which colors it uses in addition to balck and gray?

EDIT:
Thanks to you too Neil, I didnīt see your post before after i wrote this and from what you write 2) is not correct, but what is than the use of the print in grayscale box?


Christopher
To print in grayscale you need to print with printer manages color. Then you can print regardless if the original is colour or already grayscale monochrome. In the driver only when you previously used printer manages color can you select grayscale, and tint options.


It does use essentially gray inks only when doing this as the Look up tables print with as far as I can see only gray inks. IF using ICC profiles however there maybe some colour or composite going on.
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: Ernst Dinkla on July 10, 2009, 05:52:48 AM
Quote from: Gurglamei
Thank you! Looks interesting and I am looking forward to trying it out.  I see that the box for "Application manages color" is still active. Am I assuming right then that

1) when an image is converted to black and white in photoshop, to the printer it is still a color image and,
2) selecting the grayscale box is necessary to make the printer interpret the image file using only the black and gray inks?

3) using the advanced options makes the printer add some color toning to the black and gray inks, and that using this is a bit of trail and error to find an expression I like for my images?
4) Printing black and white images toned in Photoshop must be done without checking the "Print in grayscale" box, and then it is hard to controll which colors it uses in addition to balck and gray?

EDIT:
Thanks to you too Neil, I didnīt see your post before after i wrote this and from what you write 2) is not correct, but what is than the use of the print in grayscale box?


Christopher

Like Neil indicates you have to use printer color management with the greyscale choice, it is what HP recommends for B&W printing. On the Z3100 with a calibrated paper this will give linear output in the print. Tested that for several papers and it is consistent. On the Z3200 there are some issues with the linearity but this has been reported to HP by me. The same issue has been observed by Keith Cooper. With my method of B&W printing I like the Z3100 more than the Z3200. Color printing, profile creation on the Z3200 became much better though.

http://www.pigment-print.com/review/Z3200FirstPage_2.htm (http://www.pigment-print.com/review/Z3200FirstPage_2.htm)
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews...hp_z3200ps.html (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/printer/hp_z3200ps.html)
both near the bottom of the page.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: Gurglamei on July 10, 2009, 06:33:24 AM
Quote from: Ernst Dinkla
Like Neil indicates you have to use printer color management with the greyscale choice, it is what HP recommends for B&W printing. On the Z3100 with a calibrated paper this will give linear output in the print. Tested that for several papers and it is consistent. On the Z3200 there are some issues with the linearity but this has been reported to HP by me. The same issue has been observed by Keith Cooper. With my method of B&W printing I like the Z3100 more than the Z3200. Color printing, profile creation on the Z3200 became much better though.

http://www.pigment-print.com/review/Z3200FirstPage_2.htm (http://www.pigment-print.com/review/Z3200FirstPage_2.htm)
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews...hp_z3200ps.html (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/printer/hp_z3200ps.html)
both near the bottom of the page.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)

Thank you  :-)




Christopher
Title: Time to upgrade my printer
Post by: dave_in_gva on July 12, 2009, 03:30:02 AM
Interesting thread. I too am looking at a 24" printer now. I print occasoinally for my own use and prefer black and white. Until now I've been printing with an Epson 2100 (I live in Geneva, Switzerland), and have been happy with my monochrome prints using the QTR rip and the MIS Ultratone II inkset. I have been linearizing my own curves for B&W and making my own profiles with my i1. The one issue I have hated with the Epson has been clogging, and about 2 years ago when the Z3100 came out I was very interested because of the positive press on it's monochrome output.

We now have what appear to be three excellent 24" printers in the form of the 7900, the Z3200 and the Canon ipf6100. I'd have to say I am leaning towards the Canon. It gets less attention but I've not seen too many bad things written about it and I don't really need the profiling capability of the Z3200. Still, the Z3200 does appear to get rave reviews for the monochrome output and that is what is most important for me........I've not yet moved to baryta papers as I am still going through Hahnemuhle pearl stock but expect I will go the baryta route and think the gloss enhancer of the HP would go very well with that.

Epson has always been my printer make up until now but there is a hefty price premium over the Canon here in Switzerland (in fact both the Epson and the HP are considerably more expensive), and I am a bit concerned about some of the reports I am reading on errant cleaning cycles and clogs.

For the moment I am keeping my options open and just reading everything I can as I am not planning on buying for another 2-3 months. But at the moment I'd have to say the Canon ipf6100 is the way I'm leaning.

Best,

Dave M