Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: seany on June 19, 2009, 08:07:39 am
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With respect Michael for those of us who paid out for your previous tutorials on Lightroom the question is what the #%*! is this?, you are saying you thought you knew Lightroom but didn't, seems to me if you didn't then an apology is in order and at the least a free update to compensate.
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Oh please, give me a break.
That's like talking about learning how to drive a race car and then complaining about it because you already have a regular driver's license. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
Watch the preview clip (not just the teaser), and then tell me if this is not new and special information that goes beyond the basics. Much beyond.
I'm something of an expert on Lightroom, but I learned a great deal from Seth during the production of this video. I make no apologies for that. I'm always learning something new, and one of the things I learned a long time ago is to engage brain before putting mouth in gear. No driver's license required.
Michael
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one of the things I learned a long time ago is to engage brain before putting mouth in gear. No driver's license required.
Michael
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Precisely
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Nice to see Seth without a @$**&% iceberg under him!!
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Surfing the web, or talking with students, the number one question I get about Lightroom from users is "Where are my pictures"? That said, I think the title, with tongue in cheek is not only perfectly acceptable, it makes lots of sense!
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I'm at #8.
Wonderful tutorial. Sure, some of the stuff is personal preference, but I've already learned a whole bunch. Great content, reasonable explanations, fun engagement and a high level of excitement.
Informative, entertaining and fun.
Thank you Chris, Michael and Seth.
Dave Chew
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I'd just like to second what Dave Chew wrote. I found that even though the video is addressing the problems of photo DAM it (perhaps inadvertenly) turned out to be a tutorial
that fills in and complements Michael's and Jeff's Lightroom tutorials. I thought I was reasonably familiar with Lightroom but this video showed me at least four other ways to
add keywords that I never even knew about. For that alone it was well worth the price.
I do have one (not very serious) question though - I noticed a slightly different pronunciation of Jeff Schewe's name than from previous videos. I'll probably never meet
the gentleman but if I do should I pronounce his name "SHOE-EE" or "SHE-WEE"?
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I found that even though the video is addressing the problems of photo DAM it (perhaps inadvertenly) turned out to be a tutorial that fills in and complements Michael's and Jeff's Lightroom tutorials. I thought I was reasonably familiar with Lightroom but this video showed me at least four other ways to add keywords that I never even knew about. For that alone it was well worth the price.
Just to be perfectly clear, the Lightroom 2 video that Michael and I did took over 3 days to tape (with late beta, near RC quality software) and uncounted hours of editing by Chris and the end result was that keywording ended up getting what, 25-35 minutes of run time in the LR 2 vids?
We knew when we taped it (hey, both Michael and I have spent quality time with Seth–heck, I was his roommate for 3 trips to Antarctica) that it wouldn't be "complete" but we specifically decided NOT to dwell extensively on the whole metadata issue. At the time of THAT taping, both Michael and I talked about the fact that the _BEST_ person to talk about the asset management issues would be Seth. I kinda talked Seth into doing the video taping with Michael...and Seth and Michael have spent quality time together on three separate Antacricata trips.
I noticed a slightly different pronunciation of Jeff Schewe's name than from previous videos. I'll probably never meet the gentleman but if I do should I pronounce his name "SHOE-EE" or "SHE-WEE"?
If you want to be" Germainically" correct, the name is "shay-ve" but my mom always said she-we. When my great grandparents immigrated in the late 1800's, the name was "Scheive" which was the German spelling. It was written down as "Schewe" instead of Scheive (which was the correct German spelling). So, according to my Dad (who WAS German) the pronunciation was "Shay-ve". According to my Mom it was "She-we".
As long as you sign the check, you can call me whatever you want to call me!!!!
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With respect Michael for those of us who paid out for your previous tutorials on Lightroom the question is what the #%*! is this?, you are saying you thought you knew Lightroom but didn't, seems to me if you didn't then an apology is in order and at the least a free update to compensate.
An apology and free update are hardly sufficient compensation. Over the years, the stuff I've learned from Michael's photographs, writing, instructional videos and this web site has resulted in me purchasing new hardware, upgrading software and retooling one aspect or another of nearly my entire damn workflow! Do you have any idea how much time and money that has cost?! You're into me for big bucks, Reichmann!!
I'll, um... be happy take it out in prints.
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If you want to be" Germainically" correct, the name is "shay-ve" but my mom always said she-we. When my great grandparents immigrated in the late 1800's, the name was "Scheive" which was the German spelling. It was written down as "Schewe" instead of Scheive (which was the correct German spelling). So, according to my Dad (who WAS German) the pronunciation was "Shay-ve". According to my Mom it was "She-we".
Smith. Got it.
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Do you have any idea how much time and money that has cost?! You're into me for big bucks, Reichmann!!
Doode, you are seriously barking up the wrong tree....
Aside from the fact that Michael has no specific warrantee (you are always due an amount equal to what you've paid), the fact that YOU'VE been unable to exercise the normal self-restraint regarding your hardware/software purchases can hardly be held against Michael even if he _IS_ personally responsible for all you own poor investment decisions...
The fact is that it took Seth Resnich a whole friggin' weekend to figure out where the F#$^%&* Michael's images may actually be hiding....now, it would NOT be polite not to point this out to Michael...
The fact that Chris could spend over a month editing the footage and STILL have issues regarding the tutorial name convention should tell you something–that none of this stuff is particularly easy nor prone to fixing itself by it self....
It could be wore...you might not have a friggnin' clue what we're talking about in the first place–in which case you should prolly just put a gun to your head straight away...
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Doode, you are seriously barking up the wrong tree....
Aside from the fact that Michael has no specific warrantee (you are always due an amount equal to what you've paid), the fact that YOU'VE been unable to exercise the normal self-restraint regarding your hardware/software purchases can hardly be held against Michael even if he _IS_ personally responsible for all you own poor investment decisions...
The fact is that it took Seth Resnich a whole friggin' weekend to figure out where the F#$^%&* Michael's images may actually be hiding....now, it would NOT be polite not to point this out to Michael...
The fact that Chris could spend over a month editing the footage and STILL have issues regarding the tutorial name convention should tell you something–that none of this stuff is particularly easy nor prone to fixing itself by it self....
It could be wore...you might not have a friggnin' clue what we're talking about in the first place–in which case you should prolly just put a gun to your head straight away...
Jeff,
My post #9 above is a parody of the first post in this thread. It is a sendup of the (in my opinion, ridiculous) concept that Michael owes us free updates.
The parody turns on the fact that Michael's efforts on LL over the years have been a resource to the photographic community which promote advancement of photographers' skills. The (in my opinion, self-entitled) attitude advanced in post #1 of this thread that financial compensation is owed to readers is the point of the joke.
May I request that you read my post again with that in mind -- and with my apologies that its tone wasn't clear?
Regards,
Fred Dawson
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With respect Michael for those of us who paid out for your previous tutorials on Lightroom the question is what the #%*! is this?, you are saying you thought you knew Lightroom but didn't, seems to me if you didn't then an apology is in order and at the least a free update to compensate.
I payed Michael for a one on one session, which was most pleasant btw., and yeah, at this point in time, it was a Heck of a lot of money for me.
When we sat in his studio, he did not know that you can open LR as a 64 bit application, so I showed it to him. - So what? -
He did not know that you can pick a color from your picture to be used in your grad filter, and I forgot that as well until last week. LOL So I shared it with him. - So what? -
Guess you would have asked for your money back, yeah?
Apart from that, there are so callded tutorials on CD or DVD that are 10-20 times more expensive, and provide a lot of blah blah and stating the obvious, boring the living daylight out of you.
Michael's stuff is sold for a bottom dollar price, and guess what, this is not priced that low to make more money for him, although economical ways of looking at this as a business need to be there as well, naturally, he does it so it is affordable for everyone, this much I know!
If he were to sell them for 3x-5x as expensive, he would not have a problem selling them, but he does not!
Nuff said!
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This is the one aspect of LR that always confounded me, thanks for coming out with this video Michael and Seth. (Jeff, I know where I put them, I just didn't inform LR when I was doing it.)
Dave
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May I request that you read my post again with that in mind -- and with my apologies that its tone wasn't clear?
er, surely Schewe's answer was a parody of yours ?
Dangerous thing, satire on the internet....
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er, surely Schewe's answer was a parody of yours ?
Then again, how can he be sure mine wasn't a parody of his? (For that matter, how can I be sure?)
And please don't call Schewe Shirley.
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:~)
That's all I'm gonna say...
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Well, this nice site... wich attracts so much visitors, probably earns cash and on top, the owner even makes better pictures then me... ...THAT ANNOYS THE HELL OUT OF ME!!! - every day I see a new article posted!!! I NEED to find something bad about it, I need to point out something, I need to complain, I neeeed to complaaAain!!!
(*wildly tramples on the ground, grimaces, howls and falls down on the knees beating the ground, bashing the head onto the hard concrete floor and bursting into tears finally*)
In answer to the first post... ...just couldnt resist!!!
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Well, this nice site... wich attracts so much visitors, probably earns cash and on top, the owner even makes better pictures then me... ...THAT ANNOYS THE HELL OUT OF ME!!! - every day I see a new article posted!!! I NEED to find something bad about it, I need to point out something, I need to complain, I neeeed to complaaAain!!!
(*wildly tramples on the ground, grimaces, howls and falls down on the knees beating the ground, bashing the head onto the hard concrete floor and bursting into tears finally*)
In answer to the first post... ...just couldnt resist!!!
My goodness I hope you feel better now you've got that off your chest.
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My goodness I hope you feel better now you've got that off your chest.
I read this subforum over 3 years now and over the time got astonished how much substanceless critique and nitpicking is exercised here. Beside the valid additions of course. Interesting articles from knowledgeable guys almost every other day, but the first voice commenting these efforts here in "About this site" very often nothing more than jealous nitpicking, in my opinion, as in this case. So thats what I pointed out with my sarcastic comment. Likely that will piss off other nitpickers, but I think I'll be able to live with that.
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I read this subforum over 3 years now and over the time got astonished how much substanceless critique and nitpicking is exercised here. Beside the valid additions of course. Interesting articles from knowledgeable guys almost every other day, but the first voice commenting these efforts here in "About this site" very often nothing more than jealous nitpicking, in my opinion, as in this case. So thats what I pointed out with my sarcastic comment. Likely that will piss off other nitpickers, but I think I'll be able to live with that.
Christian,so sorry if I offended you by my comments to Michael, I must say I find your analysis of my motives very entertaining though wide of the mark.Perhaps my play on words was too subtle for you to comprehend or maybe taking a rise out of someone who occasionally takes themselves too seriously is not part of your culture.
For the record I'm a great admirer of Michael's pictures and his depth of knowledge on all matters photographic but I do like to poke the bear every now and again just to make sure he is paying attention.
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Christian,so sorry if I offended you by my comments to Michael, I must say I find your analysis of my motives very entertaining though wide of the mark.Perhaps my play on words was too subtle for you to comprehend or maybe taking a rise out of someone who occasionally takes themselves too seriously is not part of your culture.
For the record I'm a great admirer of Michael's pictures and his depth of knowledge on all matters photographic but I do like to poke the bear every now and again just to make sure he is paying attention.
Am I really that wide off the mark? I doubt it. Pretending it was all funny talk after the fact ist the usual excuse if someone (in this case me) gets across seriousy, at least thats my experience. I dont buy that. Also I dont like subtleties when it comes to critique, I prefer saying it straight, tends to avoid misunderstandings.
Christian Miersch
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Am I really that wide off the mark? I doubt it. Pretending it was all funny talk after the fact ist the usual excuse if someone (in this case me) gets across seriousy, at least thats my experience. I dont buy that. Also I dont like subtleties when it comes to critique, I prefer saying it straight, tends to avoid misunderstandings.
Christian Miersch
Christian you are entitled to your opinion and there is no point in me trying to dissuade you, however I too am entitled to the same rights.
Seany
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Christian you are entitled to your opinion and there is no point in me trying to dissuade you, however I too am entitled to the same rights.
Seany
Call it opinion, call it how you want. I have nothing to add to what I said.
And who would I be wanting to prevent anyone from expressing his thoughts? I dont hinder you. Do whatever you want.
Thats my last comment here.
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No doubt about it, this thread is cursed. Which is why I've called in Nita N'gimbu, famous Kenyan exorcist and former high fashion model, to deal with the demons. She doesn't work cheap, but don't worry.
I'm billing it to Michael.
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Ok...I've just completed all of the videos and it was definitely a good value for the price.
I have one disappointment though......no "wrap up" with Michael and Seth drinking wine or going to the local pub and discussing the future? Bummer!! I was getting really used to that cool kind of informal wrap up session......if I might make a recommendation to include that in all of the video tutorials.... :-)
I'll have to watch the videos again, as I normally watch them the first time through just to wrap my mind around the subject and then a second time taking notes of items that are applicable to me.
Thanks again for the great video!
Cheers.....
Todd in Chicago
Oh please, give me a break.
That's like talking about learning how to drive a race car and then complaining about it because you already have a regular driver's license. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
Watch the preview clip (not just the teaser), and then tell me if this is not new and special information that goes beyond the basics. Much beyond.
I'm something of an expert on Lightroom, but I learned a great deal from Seth during the production of this video. I make no apologies for that. I'm always learning something new, and one of the things I learned a long time ago is to engage brain before putting mouth in gear. No driver's license required.
Michael
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I have one disappointment though......no "wrap up" with Michael and Seth drinking wine or going to the local pub and discussing the future? Bummer!! I was getting really used to that cool kind of informal wrap up session......if I might make a recommendation to include that in all of the video tutorials.... :-)
Ahh you will then definitely need the CS4 update for L-L Guide to Raw Processing in Photoshop which was shot at the same time. You will have the mixed pleasure of continued 'Shirt Wars' and the addition of salty Miami Beach shenanigans with all three - four? - of us.
Also LLVJ-19 will feature an interview of Seth by Michael as they tipple alfresco on Seth's balcony...
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Whooohooo!!
Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! ;-)
I know it's rude to ask, but customers are such PITA's.... ;-) Any timeline for those?
Cheers....
Todd in Chicago
Ahh you will then definitely need the CS4 update for L-L Guide to Raw Processing in Photoshop which was shot at the same time. You will have the mixed pleasure of continued 'Shirt Wars' and the addition of salty Miami Beach shenanigans with all three - four? - of us.
Also LLVJ-19 will feature an interview of Seth by Michael as they tipple alfresco on Seth's balcony...
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Any timeline for those?
Always a dangerous question to answer but I am working on the Raw Processing in CS4 update now and it should be published in about a month or so. LLVJ-19? It will be late-ish '09
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er, surely Schewe's answer was a parody of yours ?
Dangerous thing, satire on the internet....
I had assumed that the first post was, itself, a deliberate joke .... ?
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I had assumed that the first post was, itself, a deliberate joke .... ?
Spot on
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I kind of skipped through the posts here, but would like to add for those who may be looking here for confirmation as to the value of this tutorial.
This is my third tutorial from this site and by far, for me, this was the most beneficial (and I found the others to be just fantastic).
DAM was a major nut for me to crack. Not so much the basic concepts, it was the how to make the software do what I needed issues. This tutorial was very well detailed in the "nitty gritty" of what goes on "inside the box" so to speak.
If you're sitting with thousands of files scattered amongst drives and folders wondering how to get your head around it or are just starting out and want a solid base from which to start building your collection, then you have got to get this video!
If you don't have a good DAM system you will regret it later.
Jake
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The new tutorial perfectly compliments the old tutorial. I can't compliment MR and his friends enough for the education they've brough to my livingroom up here in the Arctic. I'd still be sorting slides on the lighttable if it weren't for MR. Keep up the good work and don't let the grumpy few distract you!