Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: scott morrish on May 25, 2009, 08:19:16 am
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Hi.
I am a user of an H1 and phase backs.
I like the phase backs more than i like the H cameras, so thanks to Hasselblad locking third party backs out of a 'Hasselblad camera and lens system' in the future... I am seriously considering switching to the Phase Body and lenses (mainly a question of when). I would appreciate any observations concerning the capabilities of the Hassy or latest phase / mamiya lenses (D) to cope with the latest generation of sensors like the P65.
Phase seems to be in the middle of a transition / expansion, so it seems there will be more lenses on the horizon. Leaf shutters are irrelevant to me.
I have tested a P65 with the phases latest lenses, and they seem very good, but my only point of comparison is the P45+ with the H lenses... so i do not know which differences are the lenses, or the sensors? (Unfortunately MTF charts have always been a mystery to me).
Hoping someone can shed light on these matters for me,
Many thanks,
Scott
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If you can wait, a friend of mine has just bought a new H3DII-39 with the 35-90mm, I have a PhaseOne camera with the p45+ and an 80mmD (also a 35mm analogi and the 120mmD)... We are waiting the box with the hasselblad to test our 80mm... unfortunatly they are not at the same class, but the 35-90 should be a stellar lens...
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Hi.
I am a user of an H1 and phase backs.
Scott
I have the H3D11-50 and 50-110 zoom, and a set of Schneider apo-digitars, and a Sinar P3.
Next week I pick up the adaptor and get the lenses mounted, so I am looking forward to results.
Nice thing about the Hassy is that , for only a grand or two more than the DCU alone, you can get a point-and-shoot adaptor, with auto-focus.
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Hi.
I am a user of an H1 and phase backs.
I like the phase backs more than i like the H cameras, so thanks to Hasselblad locking third party backs out of a 'Hasselblad camera and lens system' in the future... I am seriously considering switching to the Phase Body and lenses (mainly a question of when). I would appreciate any observations concerning the capabilities of the Hassy or latest phase / mamiya lenses (D) to cope with the latest generation of sensors like the P65.
Phase seems to be in the middle of a transition / expansion, so it seems there will be more lenses on the horizon. Leaf shutters are irrelevant to me.
I have tested a P65 with the phases latest lenses, and they seem very good, but my only point of comparison is the P45+ with the H lenses... so i do not know which differences are the lenses, or the sensors? (Unfortunately MTF charts have always been a mystery to me).
Hoping someone can shed light on these matters for me,
Many thanks,
Scott
why do you need to change from the h system? its not like there is a shortage of h1/2's, they are cheap and plentiful, you can easily own a spare as backup. the only thing you are missing out on with the h3 is a very wide lens and a very expensive lazy mans zoom.
i have thought hard about other systems, and would be happy to change if there was something better, but i really think the hasselbald h and phase is the best combination for me (although i have an aptus, i had phase, and would like a p65)
paul
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If you can wait, a friend of mine has just bought a new H3DII-39 with the 35-90mm, I have a PhaseOne camera with the p45+ and an 80mmD (also a 35mm analogi and the 120mmD)... We are waiting the box with the hasselblad to test our 80mm... unfortunatly they are not at the same class, but the 35-90 should be a stellar lens...
I look forward to seeing what you make of them?
thanks.
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why do you need to change from the h system?
paul
For me the issues are admittedly a little muddled.
Hasselblad have followed an odd path, that as i understand it, includes adding new lenses with different coverage. So they have a 28... but not one that you'd want to use if you have a full frame sensor. And they now have a wider zoom... one that is reliant on DAC... which only makes sense if you use one of their backs and their software... but i don't plan to do either of those things.
And then there is the question of how well the H lenses will fare with the P65's extra resolving power? Are they as good as the new D lenses from phase?
The new phase lenses are very, very good from what i have seen so far, but their system does not have a new 35mm lens yet! Again not sure the old 35 mm is good enough from either company. Their next zoom is set to be the 45-90... but why overlap the 70-150?, Surely 35-70 would be better?
Hasselblad seem to have a plan that is company first, customers second. Their choice, and maybe good for their business, but not too keen on that as i want to stick with the phase backs.
Phase seem to have a clear plan, but for their camera system it is still work-in-progress. Guess it just turns out to be an odd time to be thinking of switching... neither system is ideal yet.
I know i prefer the phase backs, and i think i prefer the phase plan for their camera system... they just need them to get more new lenses into the market asap. May well be a philistine approach in some peoples eyes, but i don't care too much for either companies software... i prefer lightroom, so once the back is supported in lightroom, their software is not a significant consideration for me.
Regards,
Scott
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If anyone has used a Phase or Hassy 35mm with a P65+, i would be intrigued to know how either lens stood up to scrutiny?
Scott
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Scott
just as an FYI
it's confirmed that there will not be a 45-90
at least the one that was shown about a year ago.
thanks
am
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Scott
just as an FYI
it's confirmed that there will not be a 45-90
at least the one that was shown about a year ago.
thanks
am
Who confirmed this? And which 45-90? Hasselblad got the 35-90 still on their site with a current product number.
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Who confirmed this? And which 45-90? Hasselblad got the 35-90 still on their site with a current product number.
Sorry for not being clear about this
it's my understanding that the Mamiya 45-90ƒ4.5 has been canceled, Maybe some one from phase or Ci can chime in please with accurate info.
The Hasselblad 35-90 is shipping, I've had some limited hands on and it's very nice, really fast AF, but pricy!
am
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Just be aware that the P65+ stresses every component in the shooting chain, from lens, to tripod, to head, to focus ability.
It is significantly more revealing of poor technique and support equipment than any imaging device I've ever used.
There are several of us with P65+'s that are struggling with this almost daily, and sharing our experiences with each other, including Mark Dubovoy.
If you haven't already, have a look at my recent essay (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/mf-easy.shtml) and articles by Joe Holmes.
So, the lens is just one component in the chain to consider.
As for a direct answer to your question, I have several of the new Phase / Mamiya D series lenses and each one of them is very good indeed. The 75-150mm zoom is exceptional, but be sure you get a good one. There seems to be a lot of unit variation.
The new 28mm, 45mm, and 80mm are all excellent. I have the older 120mm Macro, 210mm and 300mm and each of these is also very good with the P65+.
Michael
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...the only thing you are missing out on with the h3 is a very wide lens and a very expensive lazy mans zoom.
i have thought hard about other systems, and would be happy to change if there was something better, but i really think the hasselbald h and phase is the best combination for me (although i have an aptus, i had phase, and would like a p65)
paul
Why use the Phase instead of the Hasselblad 50Mpx (or soon the 60Mpx)?
I have the 50-110mm zoom... it was not expensive, they threw it in as discount... and when you cannot choose your viewpoint to make the scene match the angle of your lens, it is very useful... and so sharp you can just about count every brick, block and tile on all the houses in a village.
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Just be aware that the P65+ stresses every component in the shooting chain, from lens, to tripod, to head, to focus ability.
It is significantly more revealing of poor technique and support equipment than any imaging device I've ever used.
There are several of us with P65+'s that are struggling with this almost daily, and sharing our experiences with each other, including Mark Dubovoy.
If you haven't already, have a look at Joe Holmes recent essay (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/mf-easy.shtml).
So, the lens is just one component in the chain to consider.
As for a direct answer to your question, I have several of the new Phase / Mamiya D series lenses and each one of them is very good indeed. The 75-150mm zoom is exceptional, but be sure you get a good one. There seems to be a lot of unit variation.
The new 28mm, 45mm, and 80mm are all excellent. I have the older 120mm Macro, 210mm and 300mm and each of these is also very good with the P65+.
Michael
Hi Michael,
I discovered just how 'fussy' it was whilst testing a couple of weeks ago. I tested the newer Phase D lenses, and was really struck with the 75-150 and also the 120mm. With the 120 i see things in the files that i had no idea were there... jaw-dropping detail in many respects!
The 28 is wider than i need, and when combined with the price, i personally can not justify that lens. Can i ask, of those you know that have the P65, has anyone had good results with a 35mm lens, (Phase or Hassy)?
Also, it is interesting that you talk of a daily struggle. Are there situations where a P45+ would actually be the better choice?
Regards,
Scott
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I don't have any experience with the 35mm. Sorry.
No, given the choice, I wouldn't choose the P45+ over the P65+ for any application. It's just that the higher up the resolution chain that one goes, the more glaring any deficiencies become.
Michael
Ps: I successfully hand held the P65+ on the deck of a moving ship in Antarctica, and got excellent results, so one shouldn't assume that a concrete slab platform and 30Lb tripod are always necessary. Just good technique and common sense.
Michael
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Pick up the 150 mm 2.8 D lens it is amazing on any of the backs and the P65 is no exception. I have the 28, 45, 80 and 150 all D lenses and my favorite is that 150 D. Also the 300mm AF which is not a D lens but sure is extremely good. Not sure the Hassy glass would be any better or any other lenses for that matter. It's the damn name that people think the worst and simple not true. Sure there are dogs and lens variation on some but I tried every back Phase has put out except the P40 + which in 2 weeks I will try but the weakest one is the 28mm in the far corners but C1 finally put in corner sharpness adjustments in the program and it has helped a great deal except maybe the P65+ since it is Full Frame the very far corners still maybe soft but I have not tested that since corner sharpness was activated for the 28mm nor have I tried the new 45mm D on the P65 plus.
As far as the 35mm it is a good lens but I would not consider it great. Very sharp in center and very good out to the corners, watch for sample variation here . I had a good one and it preformed very well but I would suspect we may see this in a D version someday but they are relatively inexpensive used like 800 to 900 dollars and I would not shy away from buying one again corner sharpness control is very effective on this lens.
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I will try but the weakest one is the 28mm in the far corners but C1 finally put in corner sharpness adjustments in the program and it has helped a great deal except maybe the P65+ since it is Full Frame the very far corners still maybe soft but I have not tested that since corner sharpness was activated for the 28mm nor have I tried the new 45mm D on the P65 plus.
Hi there,
Yes indeed I would recommend one proceed with caution when considering the 28mm Mamiya --The first one they sent us was a Pig!
DesW
[attachment=14111:28mm_lens_1.jpg]
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Mamiya's got a wide line-up, unfortunately it's so patchy.
apparently the mamiya's got a good 75-150mm and a good 150mm, too bad these are focal lengths I almost never use (usually 45mm-100mm tops)
they've got a track record for vaporware vs hassy which delivers on what they promise, so that's something to take note of.
I gave up on waiting for a 45-90mm zoom and ANY leaf shutter lenses.
the hassy lenses perform well overall, at least there are no pigs in the lineup.
and most importantly they have the range that I want (that 35-90mm is veryyy tempting.)
on the bright side if you want weird lenses the mamiya can adapt a range of lenses, plus the older M645 range of lenses can be quite interesting.
80mm f/1.9 for a crappy looking softness if that's what you're going for!
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one more thing:
I would recommend going with the lens that helps you focus the most accurately.
that will offset any issues with lens IQ between cameras
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Mamiya's got a wide line-up, unfortunately it's so patchy.
apparently the mamiya's got a good 75-150mm and a good 150mm, too bad these are focal lengths I almost never use (usually 45mm-100mm tops)
they've got a track record for vaporware vs hassy which delivers on what they promise, so that's something to take note of.
I gave up on waiting for a 45-90mm zoom and ANY leaf shutter lenses.
the hassy lenses perform well overall, at least there are no pigs in the lineup.
and most importantly they have the range that I want (that 35-90mm is veryyy tempting.)
on the bright side if you want weird lenses the mamiya can adapt a range of lenses, plus the older M645 range of lenses can be quite interesting.
80mm f/1.9 for a crappy looking softness if that's what you're going for!
I think the hope here is with the infusion of money from Phase will bring out product that was announced and future product and my GUESS was Mamiya was hurting for money and could not produce the product announced earlier. No inside info here just my guess but with money from Phase i think all owners of this system see it as a very positive investment and more important a future. Frankly I would like to see a improved body more. I have no real issues with any of the glass i own.
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I think the hope here is with the infusion of money from Phase will bring out product that was announced and future product and my GUESS was Mamiya was hurting for money and could not produce the product announced earlier. No inside info here just my guess but with money from Phase i think all owners of this system see it as a very positive investment and more important a future. Frankly I would like to see a improved body more. I have no real issues with any of the glass i own.
one thing I've learnt in medium format world- don't trust any promises until the products actually ship.
I'm sure a number of us have been burnt too many times already.
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Would be curious to hear from anyone that has used the P65+ with H Lenses. I have an H2 and use H primes only....35,50,80, 100 and 210 with a 45+. Anyone used H lenses with the 65+? Wondering how the excellent H lenses preform with higher resolution....Thanks, Eleanor
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And they now have a wider zoom... one that is reliant on DAC...
This is inaccurate. NONE of the Hasselblad lenses are reliant on DAC. The corrections simply allow Hasselblad to correct for various issues that all lenses exhibit to varying degrees.
Nick-T
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This is inaccurate. NONE of the Hasselblad lenses are reliant on DAC. The corrections simply allow Hasselblad to correct for various issues that all lenses exhibit to varying degrees.
Nick-T
Both the 28 and the new zoom are indeed reliant on DAC. They were designed to use integral software corrections. I am not saying this is a bad thing, but it certainly is a true thing.
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Both the 28 and the new zoom are indeed reliant on DAC. They were designed to use integral software corrections. I am not saying this is a bad thing, but it certainly is a true thing.
I have and use a 28mm. It does not rely on the DAC corrections and in fact functions very well without them, I have compared the 28MM without corrections to other wide angles and found it compares very well. WITH the DAC corrections it becomes a stellar performer.
Hope that clarifies.
Nick-T
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I have and use a 28mm. It does not rely on the DAC corrections and in fact functions very well without them, I have compared the 28MM without corrections to other wide angles and found it compares very well. WITH the DAC corrections it becomes a stellar performer.
Hope that clarifies.
Nick-T
Neither may be used with film backs, or indeed with anything other than the H3D cameras or H2F camera with very restricted digital backs only. This is not because of the image circles, because Hasselblad has stated that they will be compatible with the H3DII-60, though with some reduction in coverage.
If no DAC corrections are required, why the restrictions against use with film backs or with other digital backs?
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Hi there,
Yes indeed I would recommend one proceed with caution when considering the 28mm Mamiya --The first one they sent us was a Pig!
DesW
[attachment=14111:28mm_lens_1.jpg]
Can't find anything sharp in this image. The "side" part is closer to the camera than the rest of this out of focus image, so it shouldn't be sharp if he didn't focus on it. This analysis is not worthy of consideration.
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Hello,
My first Mamiya AF28mm lens I purchased was soft in the bottom left and right hand corners.
Mamiya Japan replaced it with a excellent replacement.
I also have the Mamiya AF35mm lens and I have to say that I find this lens to be a very sharp lens. It does have a slight barrel distortion but this is easily fixed in Photoshop.
Attached image take with the Mamiya AF28mm lens.
Regards
Simon
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I also have the Mamiya AF35mm lens and I have to say that I find this lens to be a very sharp lens.
Curious.
I recently tried a Mamiya 35mm on a P65+ and the results were about the weakest
I've seen of any lens on any back.
The lens focussed accurately but was unacceptably sharp-at least on a DB of this resolution
Mark
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Hi Mark
There has always been a lot of debate about the Mamiya AF 35mm lens concerning resolution. All I know is that the one I have is extremely sharp, even as sharp as my Mamiya AF 28mm lens. The back I am using is Leaf Aptus 75.
At one stage I was going to sell my Mamiya AF 35mm lens but have found that as the resolution is as good as my other wide angle lenses I decided to keep it as it fits nicely between the 28mm and 45mm lenses I own.
Regards
Simon
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Simon in C1 in the lens corrections tab the 35mm lens is supported for the barrel distortion. May want to try it does a nice job on that lens , also corner sharpness control for it as well. Also support for the 28 and new 45mm lens as well.
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Would be curious to hear from anyone that has used the P65+ with H Lenses. I have an H2 and use H primes only....35,50,80, 100 and 210 with a 45+. Anyone used H lenses with the 65+? Wondering how the excellent H lenses preform with higher resolution....Thanks, Eleanor
No... but I have the H3D11-50, and the results with the 50-110 mm zoom look sharp to me, as long as I use flash or a good tripod and wire release, and mirror lock up and no wind, traffic, earthquakes or heat haze.
I did not think that the zoom would have been worth using for serious landscape work, (no movements anyway) or worth buying a polarizer for, and I have a range of Apo-digitars and a P3... and hope to get the system together next week.
...but my first (village-scape) image on my first "pro" digital camera looks good - zoom set at 65 mm, 20 houses along horizon... and you can just see individual bricks that are a different colour, tiles, slates, telephone lines, TV aerials etc in these houses at a distance of a fifth of a mile (300m).
When I get the P3 I can shift and stitch this scene, and use the movement to get the foreground in focus.
I might upgrade to the 60 when it come out.
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There is no way to think that the mamiya 35 is sharp, maybe with a P25... maybe with the P45 downsized at 50%... Yes it's cheap but also the results...Of course I can speak about mine... I really hope one day Phase will make a good 35D...Here is what mine 35 mamiya can do with my P45+, very solid tripod, good head, cable release, mirror-up, f11, very carefull focus. No sharpening, no lens correction in CaptureOne, I know I can get more with the lens correction and sharpening, but I think it's better seeing to the file as it is from the camera... The subjcet is pretty difficult, but also the price of a medium format camera is "difficult"
my best
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There is no way to think that the mamiya 35 is sharp, maybe with a P25... maybe with the P45 downsized at 50%... Yes it's cheap but also the results...Of course I can speak about mine... I really hope one day Phase will make a good 35D...Here is what mine 35 mamiya can do with my P45+, very solid tripod, good head, cable release, mirror-up, f11, very carefull focus. No sharpening, no lens correction in CaptureOne, I know I can get more with the lens correction and sharpening, but I think it's better seeing to the file as it is from the camera... The subjcet is pretty difficult, but also the price of a medium format camera is "difficult"
my best
Wow - guess a picture is worth a 1000 words here. That looks like what I get from my point and shoot.
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Wow - guess a picture is worth a 1000 words here. That looks like what I get from my point and shoot.
You know, it almost looks like you're getting some decent sharpness foreground in the first shot... I wonder if that lens could be recalibrated at Mamiya and perform better. I'm ordering the Phase 645 in a week, and I'd really like to have a decent 35.... ugh.
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You know, it almost looks like you're getting some decent sharpness foreground in the first shot... I wonder if that lens could be recalibrated at Mamiya and perform better. I'm ordering the Phase 645 in a week, and I'd really like to have a decent 35.... ugh.
May you have luck...
Actually I think I have a good copy of this lens... Also the 80mm looks soft without the sharp mask in C1, but this is the same with H lenses I really like my phase back, now I have to live with it, but in 2/3 years I hope to upgrade to a new back and if Phase will not make a huge step up in the lenses quality I will be a Hasselblad owner... we will see!
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Oh hell.... I totally forgot that I've tested these lenses.... : ) A month or two ago Doug from Progear came out to one of my shoots to demo the Phase 645 and some lenses...
The first shot is with the Mamiya 35mm the second with the Phase 45D and the last (final retouched image)with my old Schneider 47 circa 1964. They all looked pretty good to me....
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Oh hell.... I totally forgot that I've tested these lenses.... : ) A month or two ago Doug from Progear came out to one of my shoots to demo the Phase 645 and some lenses...
The first shot is with the Mamiya 35mm the second with the Phase 45D and the last (final retouched image)with my old Schneider 47 circa 1964. They all looked pretty good to me....
Can you post some crop at 100% of the 45D without any sharp mask plese? I'm interested in this lens... Actually if you want you can post also crop from the ather lenses!
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Oh hell.... I totally forgot that I've tested these lenses.... : ) A month or two ago Doug from Progear came out to one of my shoots to demo the Phase 645 and some lenses...
The first shot is with the Mamiya 35mm the second with the Phase 45D and the last (final retouched image)with my old Schneider 47 circa 1964. They all looked pretty good to me....
The Scheider looks like it beats the pants off the other two
nothing like a non retro lens(it was that one, yes?)
I would be curious what the old Hasey 30mm (yes, fisheye, but imagealign can fix) (40mm hassey maybe too much distotion for interiors, esp IF) or Contax 35mm do with this shot
Victor
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Also the 80mm looks soft without the sharp mask in C1, but this is the same with H lenses I really like my phase back, now I have to live with it, but in 2/3 years I hope to upgrade to a new back and if Phase will not make a huge step up in the lenses quality I will be a Hasselblad owner... we will see!
Correction...
We do not apply any corner USM within our lens corrections.
You can make a good lens better, but you cannot improve on an initially poor performance ie, lack of sharpness.
We only improve on Distortion, Vignetting and Chromatic Aberration.
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Correction...
We do not apply any corner USM within our lens corrections.
You can make a good lens better, but you cannot improve on an initially poor performance ie, lack of sharpness.
We only improve on Distortion, Vignetting and Chromatic Aberration.
Yes i think the same, lens correction and sharpening are different things... But also the H lenses need to be sharpened, but it's also my taste, perhaps somebody doesn't need sharp mask with H lenses. By the way I think the HDC lenses from Hasselblad are absolutly terrific!!!
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Well, alrighty then. Here's all the lenses we had on hand. Sharpening is turned off, which may reveal poor focusing on my part. This was at the end of a shot that was already taking longer than I wanted, so the experiment was less than scientific. It did reveal to me that everything I had on hand would perform well in a real world situation, where I typically do allow C1 Pro to apply some sharpening....
100% Crops, Jpegs at maximum quality...
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Well, alrighty then. Here's all the lenses we had on hand. Sharpening is turned off, which may reveal poor focusing on my part. This was at the end of a shot that was already taking longer than I wanted, so the experiment was less than scientific. It did reveal to me that everything I had on hand would perform well in a real world situation, where I typically do allow C1 Pro to apply some sharpening....
100% Crops, Jpegs at maximum quality...
FWIW, the images attached (thanks CBarrett) show the 35mm to be the poor-relation in the Phase/Mamiya line up sampled here... at least to my eyes?
Out of interest, i am curious if the open shadows of the 47mm are a result of the qualities of the lens concerned, or subjective processing of the raw file in comparison to the other files?
Scott
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Thanks to all, for your feedback on this thread.
Having already tested the P65 with the new Phase lenses, i am now going to be testing several HC primes with a P65 in a week or so. The way i work will not add up to any kind of scientific comparison at all (i'm just not that clever!), but it should allow a real-world evaluation that suits my needs.
Thanks again to everyone,
Scott
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The Scheider looks like it beats the pants off the other two
nothing like a non retro lens(it was that one, yes?)
I would be curious what the old Hasey 30mm (yes, fisheye, but imagealign can fix) (40mm hassey maybe too much distotion for interiors, esp IF) or Contax 35mm do with this shot
Victor
I have 2 old Schneider 47s, one XL (110 degreesish) and i normal, and a Hassy 40 mm, with which I took this:
[attachment=14170:Cornwall...n__0100_.jpg]
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I have 2 old Schneider 47s, one XL (110 degreesish) and i normal, and a Hassy 40 mm, with which I took this:
[attachment=14170:Cornwall...n__0100_.jpg]
Well, if that's with 50MP, that's what I think we all expect to see at 100%.
The Mamyia lenses just don't seem to have it, but then they are no where near the Hasey prices, so there SHOULD be a difference (in the best of all possible worlds! :-)
I suppose I should get an interior to show you,
but here is a:
100% crop
of a P65+ file
at the right edge of a scene
from a 35mm lens
wide open at f3.5
It's what I expect from a top lens.
It the Contac 645
Victor
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I have 2 old Schneider 47s, one XL (110 degreesish) and i normal, and a Hassy 40 mm, with which I took this:
[attachment=14170:Cornwall...n__0100_.jpg]
Was this done using all four Metz flashes?
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Difficult to say anything about the last image since we don't know how it should look. What I do notice is some CA here and there, this is absolutely not there when using HC lenses on a DAC enabled system.
While my Schneider Digitar lenses might be in a totally different league than my HC lenses. Visibly better in most areas, it is especially with distortion and CA that DAC shows its strength.
It seems such a waste to use HC lenses on anything that hasn't got DAC.
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Was this done using all four Metz flashes?
Yes - one on the floor in the kitchen area, one out of shot to the left, one near camera, and one bounced off the ceiling near camera - it would have looked better if I had had diffusers or umbrellas, but I think I can get good results with little more than a handful of gear that does not take much time to set up.
I do have a four head 1 Kws Bowens system, and a 6 Kws Elinchrom system - but not when 2 people go away for a few days in a 2 seater!
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My experience with the Mamiya 35mm lens is that it is sharp in the center. At anywhere from a couple feet to about 30 feet, it's reasonably sharp in the corners. At infinity, the corners get very soft. In fact, on a 48MM X 36MM sensor, 20% of the east and the west sides of the frame are unacceptably soft at all apertures. I sent the lens to MAC for calibration and it came back worse.
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Difficult to say anything about the last image since we don't know how it should look. What I do notice is some CA here and there, this is absolutely not there when using HC lenses on a DAC enabled system.
Well, it was supposed to look like a swimsuit model!
But, seriously...
This is a 100% crop, and you are viewing 1/3 the pixels per inch that it would print- but I still don't see where there is CA. However full aperture, at the edge, it is possible in a high contract situation (esp backlighting as we had here.)
Point was more on detail and sharpness (latter can be fixed, former not)
Anyway, what I have seen of HC lenses is impressive and possibility to do digital APO, well, if you need it...
For arch/interiors, why wouldn't a pro prefer a view camera? You get the movements and the great lenses, with the same back
BTW, can the hasselblad back come off? I thought only H1 and H2.
Anyway, All systems have their price point, and for the most part, commerce is efficient. Arguments that say a Mimayia or canon or Nikon lens are going to perform like a schneider, Zeiss or Hasselblad don't make sense. If they do make such a lens of comparable quality they will capture the market. But as I understand it the sheer cost of lens blanks, and the extra time in forming and the accuracy in positiong and testing all cost money. I am surprised some of the low volume lenses, like the schneider/Rodenstocks are as cheap as they are wil all the hand work assemby and testing.
That said, I have seen carpenders building fine million dollar homes with a $15 hammer, and others building junk with a $50 hammer (of course I am remembering back-they all use power nailers now :-)
I would assume same with photography; once you hit a certain level of performance, and Mamyia lenses mostly do that with a few exceptions noted here, you can get the quality product out you desire.
regards
Victor
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Well, it was supposed to look like a swimsuit model!
But, seriously...
This is a 100% crop, and you are viewing 1/3 the pixels per inch that it would print- but I still don't see where there is CA. However full aperture, at the edge, it is possible in a high contract situation (esp backlighting as we had here.)
Point was more on detail and sharpness (latter can be fixed, former not)
Anyway, what I have seen of HC lenses is impressive and possibility to do digital APO, well, if you need it...
For arch/interiors, why wouldn't a pro prefer a view camera? You get the movements and the great lenses, with the same back
BTW, can the hasselblad back come off? I thought only H1 and H2.
Anyway, All systems have their price point, and for the most part, commerce is efficient. Arguments that say a Mimayia or canon or Nikon lens are going to perform like a schneider, Zeiss or Hasselblad don't make sense. If they do make such a lens of comparable quality they will capture the market. But as I understand it the sheer cost of lens blanks, and the extra time in forming and the accuracy in positiong and testing all cost money. I am surprised some of the low volume lenses, like the schneider/Rodenstocks are as cheap as they are wil all the hand work assemby and testing.
That said, I have seen carpenders building fine million dollar homes with a $15 hammer, and others building junk with a $50 hammer (of course I am remembering back-they all use power nailers now :-)
I would assume same with photography; once you hit a certain level of performance, and Mamyia lenses mostly do that with a few exceptions noted here, you can get the quality product out you desire.
regards
Victor
You are right sometimes good enough is good enough.
The H3 can also be used on a view camera but you need to make some arrangements. The other option is the CF which I use.
I see CA in many places in this image. I see it at the edges of the beams, the edges of the tiles, the bottom of the toaster, the watercooker, the wall outlet, etc.. Most of it is of the Red/Green type. Now, people could argue this will hardly be visible in the end or it can be corrected but it is there. I do have clients that notice it. Especially the ones that like to crop out 100% details. It is mostly there at the edges especially in areas of high contrast (where you obviously expect it). I can even see it looking at a downsized version of the image.
I have seen the same with my Digitars on the Rollei X-Act. This is why I find it so remarkable and handy it is gone with DAC. I am thinking about using the HTS. It is interesting comparing this with the X-act. The HC lenses are absolutely no match for the Digitars in most areas but in all these areas the HC lenses are 'good enough' for me. Add the bonus of no CA and no distortion together with movements it becomes a very compelling alternative in many cases.
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The H3 can also be used on a view camera but you need to make some arrangements. The other option is the CF which I use.
Tomorrow I collect the adaptor and sliding back to connect my H3d11-50 to my Sinar P3 and apo-digitars ... should be a serious combination.
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You are right sometimes good enough is good enough.
The H3 can also be used on a view camera but you need to make some arrangements. The other option is the CF which I use.
I see CA in many places in this image. I see it at the edges of the beams, the edges of the tiles, the bottom of the toaster, the watercooker, the wall outlet, etc.. Most of it is of the Red/Green type. Now, people could argue this will hardly be visible in the end or it can be corrected but it is there. I do have clients that notice it. Especially the ones that like to crop out 100% details. It is mostly there at the edges especially in areas of high contrast (where you obviously expect it). I can even see it looking at a downsized version of the image.
I have seen the same with my Digitars on the Rollei X-Act. This is why I find it so remarkable and handy it is gone with DAC. I am thinking about using the HTS. It is interesting comparing this with the X-act. The HC lenses are absolutely no match for the Digitars in most areas but in all these areas the HC lenses are 'good enough' for me. Add the bonus of no CA and no distortion together with movements it becomes a very compelling alternative in many cases.
In my testing the Hasselblad HC lenses and Phase One digital lenses are extremely close when it comes to sharpness (the only criteria I was testing at the time). The difference - when there was one - was very slight and varied depending on the aperture used. Some apertures were sharper with the Hc lenses, some with the P1 lenses.
I would expect the Mamiya analogue lenses - especially at their cost - to compare not quite as well. Let's also remember that there are a wealth of profiled lens correction options of our own in Capture One 4.8 and not just on the Phase One lenses, but also on profiled Contax and HC glass too. And manually, one can make lens adjustments to Schneider Digitars or any other lens they wish. The corrections work amazingly well.
Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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In my testing the Hasselblad HC lenses and Phase One digital lenses are extremely close when it comes to sharpness (the only criteria I was testing at the time). The difference - when there was one - was very slight and varied depending on the aperture used. Some apertures were sharper with the Hc lenses, some with the P1 lenses.
I would expect the Mamiya analogue lenses - especially at their cost - to compare not quite as well. Let's also remember that there are a wealth of profiled lens correction options of our own in Capture One 4.8 and not just on the Phase One lenses, but also on profiled Contax and HC glass too. And manually, one can make lens adjustments to Schneider Digitars or any other lens they wish. The corrections work amazingly well.
Steve Hendrix
Phase One
Steve, where do I find the profiled lens correction options in C1 4.8? I can see (and always use) the correction for 28 mm D, but I don't see any other Phase or Mamiya lenses listed.
I can see lots of Hassy and Contax lenses!
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Steve, where do I find the profiled lens correction options in C1 4.8? I can see (and always use) the correction for 28 mm D, but I don't see any other Phase or Mamiya lenses listed.
I can see lots of Hassy and Contax lenses!
They are not listed until you actually used a different lens. Like a 45mm will show up when you shot the image with the 45mm and you have it up on preview . When I chose the 45mm AF than all the buttons for corrections would light up
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has anyone compared the phase 1 lenses to the mamiya d lenses?
particularly the 75-150 and the 150 2.8
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Some of the example images posted here are pretty scary. I just couldn't imagine new glass being that bad.
I have not used the Hassy glass but my experience has been pretty reasonable with the Mamiya glass.
I find that when I do things properly I get excellent results with both the 28mm and 35mm.
They are not as sharp as my technical camera w/Schneider Digitar 24 and 35 glass but I wouldn't expect a retrofocus lens to perform as well as a simple focus lens of that quality. The physics simply don't support it.
I don't expect the older glass to perform at the same level as the newer digital glass but you would be hard pressed to notice it in a properly sharpened print until you get larger than 30x40.
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has anyone compared the phase 1 lenses to the mamiya d lenses?
particularly the 75-150 and the 150 2.8
The "Phase One" lenses are the same exact lens as the Mamiya D lenses.
The difference is that you get a 3 year warranty, can get your repairs/swaps done through the same dealer as your digital back/body.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) (http://mailto:doug@captureintegration.com)
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has anyone compared the phase 1 lenses to the mamiya d lenses?
particularly the 75-150 and the 150 2.8
I was not aware that Phase actually makes any lenses, or even designs them for that matter.
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The "Phase One" lenses are the same exact lens as the Mamiya D lenses.
The difference is that you get a 3 year warranty, can get your repairs/swaps done through the same dealer as your digital back/body.
Are they the same price, or is there a premium charge for the warranty?
What is the regular warranty on the Mamiya lenses?
thx.
B
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Are they the same price, or is there a premium charge for the warranty?
What is the regular warranty on the Mamiya lenses?
thx.
B
Pricing is as below. I believe the Mamiya versions come with either 1 or 2 year warranties.
(B&H) Mamiya 28mm/4.5 D: $5,690
(B&H) Mamiya 45mm/2.8 D: Not listed
(B&H) Mamiya 75mm-150mm/4.5 D: $3,846
(B&H) Mamiya 80mm/2.8 D: $1,143
(B&H) Mamiya 120mm/4 D: $2,044
(B&H) Mamiya 150mm/2.8 D: $3,339
(P1 List) Phase One 28mm/4.5 D: $4,490
(P1 List) Phase One 45mm/2.8 D: $1,990
(P1 List) Phase One 75mm-150mm/4.5 D: $3,890
(P1 List) Phase One 80mm/2.8 D: $1,290
(P1 List) Phase One 120mm/4 D: $2,290
(P1 List) Phase One 150mm/2.8 D: $3,090
Phase One lenses are obviously available at Phase One authorized dealers. They do come with the 3 year warranty standard and they will work with AFDIII, AFDII (I believe also original AFD, but I would have to confirm this).
Steve Hendrix
Phase One
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Yes at least the 150D does with the AFD. Have not tried the others.
Looks like my laundry list. LOL
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While on the subject of glass with several knowledgeable chiming in on this thread.
I have read that the 120mm D is using essentially the same glass as the non-D with the D version having updating electronics.
Is this true?
Thanks,
Ed
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I think that is the case Ed but one lens I do not have in my bag, so I am not totally sure. I know it has extra electrical contacts
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While on the subject of glass with several knowledgeable chiming in on this thread.
I have read that the 120mm D is using essentially the same glass as the non-D with the D version having updating electronics.
Is this true?
Thanks,
Ed
My understanding is that the new 120D has a redesigned rear element.
I have never used the earlier version, and therefore can not make comparisons, but the D version is very good for both copy-work & close ups.
Not so sure about longer views? others may have more ideas about that.
Scott
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Hello,
I know that the Mamiya AF 35mm lens gets a bad rap, but I have to say that my Mamiya AF 35mm lens does a very good job.
Stats:
Mamiya 645 AFDII
Mamiya AF 35mm Lens
Leaf Aptus 75
F11.0, 60th Sec, 50ISO.
Processed CS4
Unsharp Mask Amount 100%, Radius 0.8
Cheers
Simon