Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: rainer_v on May 20, 2009, 11:31:10 am
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just arrived yesterday the slightly modified new artec. sinar changed now the tilt mechanism. there is now a knob which snaps in and a new round adjustment knob for the amount of the tilt,- which make the tilt very fine adjustable.
looks as this should address all critics which has been made on the tilt mechanism.
although the old mechanism worked fine for me too, the new one simply is perfect.
also i got the new pole- filter, which is a nice item to work with. i added some images, so its function should be clear .....
finally i got a fantastic architecture camera, it was a long way but the result`s great now. its a real pleasure to work with it, what i am doing this days excessive ....
making of photos are taken by leonie felle, my great assistant.
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thanks to you and your assistant for these photos
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Rainer, thanks for the pics.
Thats some CPL you have there, but what height does that tripod lift to (if you don't mind me asking). I have a manfrotto 161 and it doesn't seem as tall as that!
Regards to you and Leonie
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I haven't seen a filter setup like that before. Interesting.
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Rainer, thanks for the pics.
Thats some CPL you have there, but what height does that tripod lift to (if you don't mind me asking). I have a manfrotto 161 and it doesn't seem as tall as that!
Regards to you and Leonie
its a gitzo gt5560 with middle column and head app. 11ft. high.
cause its carbon its has amazingly light weight.
these carbon gitzos are expensive but real good value for their money.
i have the smallest, the biggest and freshly also one in the middle and really love them
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just arrived yesterday the slightly modified new artec.
Are they ever going to produce something as small and light as the artec... which has a useful range of movements and can be used with a useful range of P3 lens board mounted lenses?
Why not use live view instead of a step-ladder?
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Why not use live view instead of a step-ladder?
you can make it as you want.
i use eyes, legs, ladders, , bucket trucks, helis, and sometimes even live view ....
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sometimes, you just can't use a tripod for a specific shot... s it possible to shoot hand held ?
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sometimes, you just can't use a tripod for a specific shot... s it possible to shoot hand held ?
its possible if you add an optical viewer on the accessory shoe ( not mounted on my artec )
but it was certainly not the intention to make it hand- holdable.
originally this camera is planned to be a digital architecture camera which parents are 4x5" cameras.
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I haven't seen a filter setup like that before. Interesting.
looks like the mamiya 7...
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its possible if you add an optical viewer on the accessory shoe ( not mounted on my artec )
but it was certainly not the intention to make it hand- holdable.
originally this camera is planned to be a digital architecture camera which parents are 4x5" cameras.
Off course, and it looks good !
RM3D and Artech have their advantages, and i quite like the fact that for a special purpose, you can shoot without tripod with the RM3D.
Few years go, i won't have think about it... LF was the reference, but now more and more architecture's photographers are using DSLR, and can produce pics that were impossible with by beloved LF camera !
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I like that filter system too - cuts out all of that sliding and screwing... How do you put a shade around the lens though.. are you limited to articulated clip on shades?... and are there nd grad filters in the same system?
Ros
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Hi Rainer,
it's good to see all your hard work with Sinar has paid off.
Also great to hear you are busy!
Greetings,
Willem.
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finally i got a fantastic architecture camera, it was a long way but the result`s great now. its a real pleasure to work with it, what i am doing this days excessive ....
Of course you do, you envisioned it!
I can not even start to imagine the feeling.... truly something like.... MY CAMERA.... by all means!
Congrats Rainer, and many more years of pleasure!
Best wishes
Georg
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its a gitzo gt5560 with middle column and head app. 11ft. high.
cause its carbon its has amazingly light weight.
these carbon gitzos are expensive but real good value for their money.
i have the smallest, the biggest and freshly also one in the middle and really love them
Thanks for the reply.
That's why mine looks small! I presume you have no problems with stability with the carbon tripods? Mine's a ton weight, but would take a hurricane to knock it over.
Regards
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Some 5 *4 " cameras were designed to be hand-holdable, but hand-hold-ability with movements and SLR viewfinder are the advantages of the Hasselblad tilt-shift tele-converter adaptor.
Is it possible/practicable to use live view as a view-finder for hand-holding? or for use on a pan head?
Is live view only possible on a computer, or is it possible on a mini TV screen?
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I will get my Artec tomorrow but I had a hard time deciding for it because I would like to also shoot handheld sometimes(for example when hiking ton mountains you often have beautiful vews but dont allways have much time and dont wallways want to carry a tripod).
Therefore I believe it would be a clever move if Sinar offered also something like the Alpa SWA or the Cambo WRS1000, a more compact body, eventually with shift, but nothing else (no sliding adapter, no tilt, …) but handholdable.
In the end I believe that I will use the slidingadapter with groundglass of the Artec more often than I would want a handholdable, lite camera-body and therefore decided for the Artec, but I could imagine a second “lite” body.
This body could also be much lower price, and Sinar could maybe catch those guys, who want to step in with a lower budget, or rhose who might not need groundglass etc. because a optical viewfinder (or life-view) would work well. And some might buy both-an Artec and the lighter body.
What do you think?
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I will get my Artec tomorrow but I had a hard time deciding for it because I would like to also shoot handheld sometimes(for example when hiking ton mountains you often have beautiful vews but dont allways have much time and dont wallways want to carry a tripod).
Therefore I believe it would be a clever move if Sinar offered also something like the Alpa SWA or the Cambo WRS1000, a more compact body, eventually with shift, but nothing else (no sliding adapter, no tilt, …) but handholdable.
In the end I believe that I will use the slidingadapter with groundglass of the Artec more often than I would want a handholdable, lite camera-body and therefore decided for the Artec, but I could imagine a second “lite” body.
This body could also be much lower price, and Sinar could maybe catch those guys, who want to step in with a lower budget, or rhose who might not need groundglass etc. because a optical viewfinder (or life-view) would work well. And some might buy both-an Artec and the lighter body.
What do you think?
I am receiving my arTec soon - but for exactly what you just said - I am keeping my Alpa 12WA 24 and 35 Schneiders. The arTec is for the new 40mm ( when it comes out ) and then 90/ 135/..teh Alpa - for straight wide shots and walking around fun...
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I am receiving my arTec soon - but for exactly what you just said - I am keeping my Alpa 12WA 24 and 35 Schneiders. The arTec is for the new 40mm ( when it comes out ) and then 90/ 135/..teh Alpa - for straight wide shots and walking around fun...
Thats a posibility but frankly I allready pwn so many different systems so I would rather have one technical camera system where I could use all lenses on all bodies.
Do you have any info if and when the 40 appears for the Artec?
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Thats a posibility but frankly I allready pwn so many different systems so I would rather have one technical camera system where I could use all lenses on all bodies.
The Sinar 54 lensboard was a standard... would it not be nice if they could standardize on a MFDVC lens board like the P3, so that we could all use all lenses on all bodies, so we could use the same lenses on the same lensboards on a big studio camera and on cameras like the artec, Flexbody, technia or whatever.
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The filter system is a resurrection of the old Norma polarising system, with exactly the same mounting.
PdF
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<<so we could use the same lenses on the same lensboards on a big studio camera and on cameras like the artec, Flexbody, technia or whatever.>>
Don't forget the Zeiss autofocus lenses of the Sinar m !
PdF
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Thats a posibility but frankly I allready pwn so many different systems so I would rather have one technical camera system where I could use all lenses on all bodies.
Do you have any info if and when the 40 appears for the Artec?
My understanding was that release was imminent.
However, there seems to be a lot of trouble in the industry....who will buy an arTec today or tommorrow - without assurances that Sinar wil be in business? Seems like Jenoptic are walking away from MF systems...I am waiting for slid information from Sinar before committing any more money to any of their systems.
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Now just give me a possability to shoot with my Phase back on this camera and I would consider it beside the new Linhof. So far the Hassi V mount is not attractive for me.
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just arrived yesterday the slightly modified new artec. sinar changed now the tilt mechanism. there is now a knob which snaps in and a new round adjustment knob for the amount of the tilt,- which make the tilt very fine adjustable.
looks as this should address all critics which has been made on the tilt mechanism.
although the old mechanism worked fine for me too, the new one simply is perfect.
also i got the new pole- filter, which is a nice item to work with. i added some images, so its function should be clear .....
finally i got a fantastic architecture camera, it was a long way but the result`s great now. its a real pleasure to work with it, what i am doing this days excessive ....
making of photos are taken by leonie felle, my great assistant.
Is you great assistant demonstrating how the camera fails to provide enough movements to get architectural verticals paralell without using a cherry picker (or tall tripod and leaning building) and shooting horizontally? ...and, does it have sufficient tilt to get the POS horizontal with f = 150mm and J = 1.5m?
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View Point = Perspective
FYI: the camera has enough mechanical movements to be usable "over" the limits of the sensor (Image Circle).
Best regards,
Thierry
Is you great assistant demonstrating how the camera fails to provide enough movements to get architectural verticals paralell without using a cherry picker (or tall tripod and leaning building) and shooting horizontally? ...and, does it have sufficient tilt to get the POS horizontal with f = 150mm and J = 1.5m?
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View Point = Perspective
What are you trying to tell me?
Photographers use wide lenses, and suffer the perspective consequences, when they cannot find a view point that would enable them to use a more "perspective free" lens.
As explained on my "virtual viewpoint" topic elsewhere, it is possible to use a longer lens from several view points... and create a picture that looks as if it was taken from a "virtual view point" which you cannot access, or which has no view of the subject. I will start another topic on this if you like.
FYI: the camera has enough mechanical movements to be usable "over" the limits of the sensor (Image Circle).
Best regards, Thierry
Most of the digital lenses shorter than the Apo-digitar 47XL are less than ideal, as they do not have much spare image circle for movements, and, using the 47XL, on a sliding stitching back, on a camera with plenty of movements, you can get a wide enough angle (100 degrees, the same as the 24 mm) for most jobs. I have a P2 converted to P3... and I think this has more rise and fall (8 cm on each standard) than the standard P3. I think that none of the the compact digital view cameras can cope with the 150 mm or 210 mm apo-digitars... even on the Sinar P3 to get very close up with the 150 mm or to use the 210 at all you have to use additional bellows... but the Sinar P is a versatile professional system... would it not be nice if someone made a compact view camera that was Sinar P3 lensboard compatible?
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I was simply trying to explain that most probably Rainer did use this view point because he wanted to have the view point there, respectively to get exactly that perspective, not to compensate some lack of movement of the camera.
The perspective is SOLELY dependent on the view point of the camera (position of the lens): no lens can be called "perspective free" or "perspective that".
A longer lens gives exactly the same perspective as a short lens, from the SAME view point. And the view point is defined by the distance and the angle to the subject.
Nothing more and not meant to give a lesson.
Best regards,
Thierry
What are you trying to tell me?
Photographers use wide lenses, and suffer the perspective consequences, when they cannot find a view point that would enable them to use a more "perspective free" lens.
As explained on my "virtual viewpoint" topic elsewhere, it is possible to use a longer lens from several view points... and create a picture that looks as if it was taken from a "virtual view point" which you cannot access, or which has no view of the subject. I will start another topic on this if you like.
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Is you great assistant demonstrating how the camera fails to provide enough movements to get architectural verticals paralell without using a cherry picker (or tall tripod and leaning building) and shooting horizontally? ...and, does it have sufficient tilt to get the POS horizontal with f = 150mm and J = 1.5m?
as far as i know i take this view points because they give me nice perspectives,
sure not to compensate lenses with too less shift way. funny idea.
are you shooting architecture?
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Now just give me a possability to shoot with my Phase back on this camera and I would consider it beside the new Linhof. So far the Hassi V mount is not attractive for me.
ups.
double post.
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Now just give me a possability to shoot with my Phase back on this camera and I would consider it beside the new Linhof. So far the Hassi V mount is not attractive for me.
sinar should make a mount for all systems i.m.o. i never understood this idea of closing systems or limiting them. as many here i think the companies dont better their situation in making the attraction of mf in total less interessant, and afterwards trying to get from this smaller cake a bigger piece. although the artec is not a closed system for the v mount, the selling options are too limited for the miss of mamiya, hassy-h and contax mount.
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although the artec is not a closed system for the v mount, the selling options are too limited for the miss of mamiya, hassy-h and contax mount.
I thought the "HB-V" version is for different mounts? Crazy... such a nice camera!
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I thought the "HB-V" version is for different mounts? Crazy... such a nice camera!
yes it is, but what if you have a contax or mamiya or H mount on your back? i will talk once more with sinar about this.
i see this more important than ever, because the feedback for the artec seems to be very good,- ofcourse i am not surprised by that but in fact you never know if there are major mistakes in such design or in the realisation before you are really using and working with the serial model of a camera, even if the features are great in theory or even as prototype. as i wrote i am more than content but i would like to see that the artek can be sold for all platforms.
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i will talk once more with sinar about this.
very good!
i would like to see that the artek can be sold for all platforms.
I really don't get it. Does Sinar think that people are going to sell their entire gear, swap all to Sinar gear ... just because they want to use the arTec? Sure it is a very nice camera, it's probably the camera. But the price would be much too high. If they want to sell the camera they should bring it to the market... now it's the opposite: they try to bring the market to Sinar.
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as far as i know i take this view points because they give me nice perspectives,
sure not to compensate lenses with too less shift way. funny idea.
are you shooting architecture?
Photographers (especially those who do not use view/technical cameras are always, consciously or sub-consciously, arranging their viewpoint or subject to keep within the limitation of their equipment.
The sort of architectural "building in it's setting" photograph I am thinking of is a water lilly in the foreground, filling most of the width of the picture, and an hotel building in the background, all sharp and including sky... and to fill the frame with the hotel, you might have to use a 150 mm lens... would this not stretch the envelope of most systems?
Do you never find yourself short of movements or image circle?
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Photographers (especially those who do not use view/technical cameras are always, consciously or sub-consciously, arranging their viewpoint or subject to keep within the limitation of their equipment.
The sort of architectural "building in it's setting" photograph I am thinking of is a water lilly in the foreground, filling most of the width of the picture, and an hotel building in the background, all sharp and including sky... and to fill the frame with the hotel, you might have to use a 150 mm lens... would this not stretch the envelope of most systems?
Do you never find yourself short of movements or image circle?
everything always can be larger, bigger, better.
in fact, at least after the arrival of the 23HR rodenstock there is very little which remains on my wishlist for my working system. its the best system i ever worked with, in every aspect. i include here ( aside the artec with HR lenses ) the canon 5d2 for long tele shots,- it works great after canon introduced lens correction in their sw, which results in ultragood corrected tele- possiblities for details.
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Rainer - whats the point of anyone talking about the artec - since Sinar has stopped talking to customers about whether they will be there to service the equipment. I don't need another Hy6 episode. I cant believe they are still saying NOTHING - after months of F&H and now Leaf - which Must have been the NATURAL partner for Sinar...I cant believe we are going to lose Sinar - but judging by their silence - they are either arrogant and therefore stupid - or just ignorant and broke.
and btw - i do not like saying the obvious - but enough is enough - some news please Sinar!!!
Pete
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Rainer - whats the point of anyone talking about the artec
Peter, I think Rainer is not the person to ask. He's the creator of the camera, not its dealer :-)
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Rainer - whats the point of anyone talking about the artec - since Sinar has stopped talking to customers about whether they will be there to service the equipment. I don't need another Hy6 episode. I cant believe they are still saying NOTHING - after months of F&H and now Leaf - which Must have been the NATURAL partner for Sinar...I cant believe we are going to lose Sinar - but judging by their silence - they are either arrogant and therefore stupid - or just ignorant and broke.
and btw - i do not like saying the obvious - but enough is enough - some news please Sinar!!!
Pete
i understand your point although, as Thomas wrote, i am writing about the artec because it grew up from my initiative but i am not selling or making it. the prices are a steal now ( in germany ) and i am not very scared that my artec/33mp system will not serve me for many years from now on, but of course the situation is everything than inviting to buy in the system at this moment and ( without knowing any actual numbers ), it should be reflected in their selling as well. so lets see what will bring the nearer future.
i dont have also any idea what leads sinar to the idea to stop communication here, but at least they are still alive and working there in switzerland. after thierry had to leave, it became very quiet here about sinar. but remember that he always was in LL out of his personal engagement, as far i know it never was requested by sinar itself and so its a bit logic that its very quiet now after thierry is away from them, sinar didnt care much about internet forums. we can discuss if this is very clever, but now this is the situation and its result.
i will write my very personal thoughts about the artec and its future, if the things run bad:
the artec is a mechanical system, so the worst case ( manufactor`s dead ) is i.m.o. not so dramatic as it is with an electronic system as the HY. ( although i worked since years with the dead system called contax and still its great, but it is also a completed system in terms of the lens range and accessories. )
for me a system is in that moment usable in which i can get it complete to 100% and this is the point where i can buy into, not a second before . i dont base decisions in mf anymore on what will happen in the future - after all what we saw in the last years.
the artec is an item which has a complete lens lineup ( no idea about the 40HR, but there is the 35hr and the 45 ), it has a great 33mp back together with a very good working lens batch correction and dng writing software.
in case a 75lv back brakes in the future it will be very easy and probably cheap to replace it with or without warranty.
if i would need in the longer future another back adapter to buy a higher res. back ( or there will break something in the artec body ) i would search s.o. ( a small mechanical firm ) to make it ,- this looks very possible for me and will not be too expensive.
but as i wrote above, i understand your point.
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if i would need in the longer future another back adapter to buy a higher res. back ( or there will break something in the artec body ) i would search s.o. ( a small mechanical firm ) to make it ,- this looks very possible for me and will not be too expensive.
I think in Germany Gottschalt and/or Wiese would be the guys to ask, right?
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I think in Germany Gottschalt and/or Wiese would be the guys to ask, right?
or maybe mr. zoerkendorfer, or any company which makes in small amounts mechanical tools.
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Rainer - thank you for your thoughts on the issues impacting on the arTec. Indeed artec is so simple - it is hard to imagine what could go wrong - except in case of accident...My main concern would be access to lenses - anything mechanical breaks down over time and use - custom helical mounts especially.
Hopefully Sinar will survive - perhaps the Hy6 lesson will see them focus on what they do best. Maybe even they will understand selling more is better than selling nothing. Openning up to MFD back platforms to any back is the first best thing they could do. The Hy6 artec story to date is about closing down choices for users - not smart. Even dumber are people like me - enthusiasts - who bought inot the system trusting the busines brains of Sinar/Jenoptic. Now we are left with an expensive (and pretty ) paperweight. Still I can laugh - one lives and learns! - I suspect that there might be some sales on the Hy6 stock - and we can buy a spare body :)just like the Contax owners - for spare parts!
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Rainer - thank you for your thoughts on the issues impacting on the arTec. Indeed artec is so simple - it is hard to imagine what could go wrong - except in case of accident...My main concern would be access to lenses - anything mechanical breaks down over time and use - custom helical mounts especially.
Hopefully Sinar will survive - perhaps the Hy6 lesson will see them focus on what they do best. Maybe even they will understand selling more is better than selling nothing. Openning up to MFD back platforms to any back is the first best thing they could do. The Hy6 artec story to date is about closing down choices for users - not smart. Even dumber are people like me - enthusiasts - who bought inot the system trusting the busines brains of Sinar/Jenoptic. Now we are left with an expensive (and pretty ) paperweight. Still I can laugh - one lives and learns! - I suspect that there might be some sales on the Hy6 stock - and we can buy a spare body :)just like the Contax owners - for spare parts!
Peter,
if they will stop selling the Artec (what I dont think) then I will probably be happy that I got one - every time when I slide the groundglass to the side and the back behind the lens.
I agree regarding the lenses.
One comment: if companies do communicate a lot doesnt mean automatically they are healthy and the other way around.
The Sinar response I get from the Sinar -rep in my area is not bad at all, that maybe more important than writing a lot in the internet.
We have to be careful IMO - with the internet every little information leads often to millions of speculations which can be read by many people.
So for some part I can understand that those companies are very very carefull what they say and write in the internet.
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I do not know if Sinar will be manufacturing cameras in one year time, and I think nobody here is able to predict it. I was at
Sinar in Switzerland a week ago to get our two eMotion 75LV backs after the upgrade to the new displays and innards.
As far as I can understand , Sinar still operates and the parking, in front of the factory, is still full of cars; if less than before (it was not my first
visit to Sinar). Heard some humming noises from the building (as before), some machines were working. In the front room, just out of the foyer,
where I was paying, I saw several Sinar Artec Explorer cases prepared for delivery to the clients / dealers. I had lunch with some of the employees
and they were very happy and proud about the Artec, they said that see that the camera raised some interest in Europe and Asia from pros. They also see the
interest from amateurs and enthusiasts and they have some new orders from landscape shooters.
To be honest, I am worried that my Sinar-M and eMotion backs can be unsupported in the future and I am doubling almost everything:
I bought a second Sinar-M body, a new battery grip, some manual V-series lenses and other bits. I see that the Contax 645 users are able
enjoy their cameras when they are no longer supported.
BTW I am happy with the results after the upgrade. We have tested the backs and I see less noise in the shadow areas and the new
2,5 inch display is much better than the 2,2 OLED we used before.
Yevgeny
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Peter,
if they will stop selling the Artec (what I dont think) then I will probably be happy that I got one - every time when I slide the groundglass to the side and the back behind the lens.
I agree regarding the lenses.
One comment: if companies do communicate a lot doesnt mean automatically they are healthy and the other way around.
The Sinar response I get from the Sinar -rep in my area is not bad at all, that maybe more important than writing a lot in the internet.
We have to be careful IMO - with the internet every little information leads often to millions of speculations which can be read by many people.
So for some part I can understand that those companies are very very carefull what they say and write in the internet.
Yes the internet is full of 'talk'. However - the situation with Sinar/Jenotic is not business as usual since the F&H episode. Sinar must understnad that current users are very interested to know what will happen. prospective buyers of teh wonderful artec - woudl appreciate reassurances regarding the situation. Not too much to ask for- even if communication was delivered via local dealers?
Pete
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Yes the internet is full of 'talk'. However - the situation with Sinar/Jenotic is not business as usual since the F&H episode. Sinar must understnad that current users are very interested to know what will happen. prospective buyers of teh wonderful artec - woudl appreciate reassurances regarding the situation. Not too much to ask for- even if communication was delivered via local dealers?
Pete
For those complaining about the price:
There are many things included in the Artec (groundglass, tilt, loupe, sliding adapter) where you would have to pay extra when you use a different system.
Regarding the pol-filter - why would you use such a system and not a screw in filter?
I understand that those kind of systems make sense when you use an optical viewfinder and want to bring the filter in front of the vewifinder and then qzuickly in fornt of the lens, but if you use a groundglass anyways?? Do I miss something here?
How good would a screw in rubber? hood work instead of the compendium mask if one shifts not more than lets say 15mm and or if I would choose the hood so it would allow light to get into the whole image circle?
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I guess I can answer 1 of my question myself- that you want to focus and adjust movements without the pol filter.
sorry.- just have never used a Tech camera before I received my Artec few days ago.
Regarding the pol-filter - why would you use such a system and not a screw in filter?
I understand that those kind of systems make sense when you use an optical viewfinder and want to bring the filter in front of the vewifinder and then qzuickly in fornt of the lens, but if you use a groundglass anyways?? Do I miss something here?
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yes it is, but what if you have a contax or mamiya or H mount on your back? i will talk once more with sinar about this.
i see this more important than ever, because the feedback for the artec seems to be very good,- ofcourse i am not surprised by that but in fact you never know if there are major mistakes in such design or in the realisation before you are really using and working with the serial model of a camera, even if the features are great in theory or even as prototype. as i wrote i am more than content but i would like to see that the artek can be sold for all platforms.
yes and when you talk to them, tell them to do the same with the Sinar M body - I would have bought one if I could use my P65+ on it, but i cant, so they lost a client and lost $.
they need to make an adapter plate for whatever fit back you have - Mamiya, Hassy, probably even Contax too, simple thing that will double their sales power.
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[attachment=13819:IMG_4359.jpg]
ps Rainer - I love how in this picture (6th one down, green pipes) you are on the NO STEP very top of the ladder, and one of of the lock bars is not even down.
please take care!
or at least take care of that expensive camera
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ps Rainer - I love how in this picture (6th one down, green pipes) you are on the NO STEP very top of the ladder, and one of of the lock bars is not even down.
please take care!
or at least take care of that expensive camera
This is a classic illustration of the advantages of live-view for remote operation of the camera. Unfortunately Hasselblad have not implemented live-view for my camera.
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This is a classic illustration of the advantages of live-view for remote operation of the camera. Unfortunately Hasselblad have not implemented live-view for my camera.
Why have you not insisted that your dealer take your H3D-50 back rather than banging your head against the wall?
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This is a classic illustration of the advantages of live-view for remote operation of the camera. Unfortunately Hasselblad have not implemented live-view for my camera.
the sinar back has live view implemented but with the best will i cant see the advantage of it in such situation ... if so i would use it.
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the sinar back has live view implemented but with the best will i cant see the advantage of it in such situation ... if so i would use it.
Even if you were not concerned about you own safety or comfort, you could use live view to enable you not to cling on to the tripod to stabilize yourself, giving you less camera/tripod/step-ladder shake!
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Even if you were not concerned about you own safety or comfort, you could use live view to enable you not to cling on to the tripod to stabilize yourself, giving you less camera/tripod/step-ladder shake!
very good observation!
I'm almost certain that the shot doesn't show the moment when he released the camera but some time before whilest arranging the composition...
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Last year I tested the artec and made a review for LL. For an architectural photographer it is a lot of money and I tried a 5DII to substitute LF Film. After half a year I decided to buy the artec (I think, I was the last one buying at Sinar Germany) and tomorrow it will be there.
So tomorrow I will be happy and I will forget all the rumours. I think it is better to go on and look for the best products to make the best pictures.
Don`t worry to much what will happen with brands like Sinar. If they have a good products(and Sinar really have) they will survive.
Michael Heinrich
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Sexy tripod.
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once good news (from sinar.ch -> news)
If they would allow connection for all digibacks and for Schneider Digitars... the text would leave less dull aftertaste.
09.07.2009
Sinar arTec Sales Success Exceeds Expectations!
Sinar AG announced today that orders exceeding all forecasts have placed the Sinar arTec camera and many lenses in a backorder situation. This is a temporary situation
which of course is no surprise to us at Sinar—we too are enjoying the use and success of the Sinar arTec camera as much as our clients do.
Maybe it’s the inherent design of the Sinar arTec that’s reason enough to want one?
This is a camera conceived around a sliding back—with integrated ground glass screen and 3x magnifier—which in turn offers you image management tools employing Rise & Fall, Lateral shift and of course Tilts & Swings—for all lenses!
In addition there’s lens support from 23mm to 135mm in familiar and friendly Copal mechanical shutters and with silky-smooth and precise helical focusing mounts.
And if that isn’t enough reason in itself to want one, the “icing on the cake” is the addition of such an intuitive and well-conceived software workflow which entirely eliminates lens casts and centrefold issues—and which optionally gives you control over the degree of illumination or edge fall-off as required for each image’s preconceived tonal balance. As you can see we like it—we like it a lot!
Normal deliveries are expected again in September.
Therefore the sooner you place your order—the sooner you’ll receive your camera.
For those who have placed orders, we thank you for your patience and confidence in choosing Sinar arTec.
We assure you the wait will be well worthwhile as we’re absolutely convinced the Sinar arTec represents a true Sinar experience—as is usual.
Again, we confirm that we expect this situation to be only a temporary issue affecting immediate supply of the Sinar arTec—which ironically is a consequence of the camera’s success!
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once good news (from sinar.ch -> news)
If they would allow connection for all digibacks and for Schneider Digitars... the text would leave less dull aftertaste.
So Sinar sold all cameras they made. These are good news. I also hope they will open the system a bit more. I don`t know why there are only Linos Lenses, perhaps Linos they offered much better conditions if the system only offers their lenses. In this case I can understand the decision. Also you can buy a plate and a lens and a professional will do the rest.
If there are so much Artec sold, perhaps there are some users interested in a userforum? Here in LL?
Michael Heinrich
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It would be interesting to know how many have been sold, especially in the US. I know 3 people who had expressed interest in buying one here in NY and no one seemed too terribly interested in selling it to them. 2 of them subsequently bought complete Alpa systems with Leaf backs, the 3rd bought a Leaf back and is using it on a view camera. I was also interested in the Artec, but not if it meant dealing with SinarBron Inc. When I asked the NY Sinar dealer last month if they had sold any they politely laughed at me. They hadn't even taken delivery of one. So maybe the webstore is the best idea for Sinar right now.
Sinar has been offering Rodenstock lenses (exclusively?) for 10 years now, if not longer. The latest Sinar branded Schneider lens I've seen was a Symmar S from the 80's.
Does/will Sinar sell blank boards for the Artec?
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In this case I can understand the decision.
me not as it is a deal with Rodenstock and Sinar but the customer doesn't benefit here.
Also you can buy a plate and a lens and a professional will do the rest.
I'm sure someone could make as well a camera interface for Contax, Mamiya or whatever. It's just complicated and fraught with the risk that something will not fit and it could take weeks or months ... until you can mount your stuff on the camera.
Too, you actually never have the opportunity to test exactly the combination of parts you like to test. If you buy the whole package from one supplier you can return the whole package if it doesn't work for you.
Be that as it may... there are other suppliers that offer all interfaces and all lenses.
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I Germany there was a posibility where you could test the arTec together with a Sinarback for free.
1 week after I heard about it I had an arTec in my hand.
And then there was the promo where you could buy it and try it for 2 weeks with the psoibility to send it back if you dont want it.
Its a shame that it seems to be so more complicated to get hands on an arTec in the US.
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I decided to exit the MFDB platform.
If ever I would entry again,for my work(architecture) the artec is the best platform out there.
It does everything you would need.
What would be great if they would offer a non slide handhold version as well.
Regards,
Willem.
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...What would be great if they would offer a non slide handhold version as well.
Regards,
Willem.
I totally agree
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"The latest Sinar branded Schneider lens I've seen was a Symmar S from the 80's."
And the Hy 6 lenses ? The M Series Lenses ?
For a wideangle camera only Linos offers the whole range (23mm with shift) of lenses.
What Schneider lenses you are missing?
If a brand makes a good deal at the end also the customers makes benefit of it.
And on the SINAR homepage there are Leaf, Sinar, Phase One and Hasselblad Backs on the Artec.
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What Schneider lenses you are missing?
at least the Digitar 47XL. But actually all Digitars with significantly bigger image circles as the respective HR lenses.
And on the SINAR homepage there are Leaf, Sinar, Phase One and Hasselblad Backs on the Artec.
only with V-mount
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Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't think about those MF cameras.
That said, the latest Sinar branded lens I've seen is a Symmar S from the 80's
I'm in NYC and have never seen an M or Hy-6, not here or anywhere else in the US. I've seen plenty of AFi's. I've been in stores and seen people buy AFi's. Many times. The only Sinar branded lenses I've ever seen in person are LF type board mounted ones. Going back to the 90's (80's? I'm getting old) almost without exception they have been Rodenstock.
I'm not complaining about the ArTec or it's available lenses or accessories. When it was announced I enquired about buying one. I would have liked one with the lenses available. I have 2 of those lenses for my Alpa now, they're great. But it's not wise to want something you can't get, and that seems to be the case with a lot of Sinar stuff in the US and Canada now and for the last couple years. Sinar was the dominant player here for a long time but I have not personally met a photographer who uses their backs or cameras newer than the p series.
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at least the Digitar 47XL. But actually all Digitars with significantly bigger image circles as the respective HR lenses.
only with V-mount
Hasselblad has a new back with V-Mount and the camera has a limited shift so not every lens makes sense. Also the image circles of the Rodenstock lenses are in practice larger than it seems.
Michael Heinrich
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Can someone point me to an online price list for the ArTec lenses? Tekno AG doesn't list the ArTec, sinar.ch lists Vistek as the Canadian distributor but Vistek doesn't seem to sell Sinar...
Michael points out the Rodenstock lenses exclusivity may result in a better price on those lenses, so I wanted to compare prices between those lenses in Cambo, Sinar and Alpa mounts (roughly a similar comparison).
Sinar not selling more than one lens brand was not a factor in my not buying the ArTec. Not being able to easily buy the camera from a local dealer was.
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The distribution seems to be a problem of SINAR. Why don`t you mail to SINAR Swiss what are the actual prices?
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Hasselblad has a new back with V-Mount
great!
I already have a DB. Unfortunatley (actually fortunately) with Contax mount. I wouldn't consider to sell my Contax outfit... it's quite nice.
Why don't they just provide an interface - we are talking about a trivial metal plate here!
and the camera has a limited shift so not every lens makes sense. Also the image circles of the Rodenstock lenses are in practice larger than it seems.
which of the HR lenses can be used to the limits of movements the arTec is capable of (+/-20 lateral and +25/-15 vertical)???
From this point of view the movements of the arTec are a waste. With the Digitars they would make sense in the first place.
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great!
I already have a DB. Unfortunatley (actually fortunately) with Contax mount. I wouldn't consider to sell my Contax outfit... it's quite nice.
Why don't they just provide an interface - we are talking about a trivial metal plate here!
which of the HR lenses can be used to the limits of movements the arTec is capable of (+/-20 lateral and +25/-15 vertical)???
From this point of view the movements of the arTec are a waste. With the Digitars they would make sense in the first place.
the rodenstock 45/55/70/90/135 is in the planned lens line from the artec and all have movements till the max. of the artec.
with the 35 it hasnt much sense to move it over max 15mm in any case, nor with rodenstock nor with schneider, except you accept unsharp outer zones but why than hi resolution backs?
that there arent other mounts available is a big pity/mistake i.m.o. and i dont know or understand why.
hope that that will change in future, but dont have info about at the moment.
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Can someone point me to an online price list for the ArTec lenses? Tekno AG doesn't list the ArTec, sinar.ch lists Vistek as the Canadian distributor but Vistek doesn't seem to sell Sinar...
Michael points out the Rodenstock lenses exclusivity may result in a better price on those lenses, so I wanted to compare prices between those lenses in Cambo, Sinar and Alpa mounts (roughly a similar comparison).
Sinar not selling more than one lens brand was not a factor in my not buying the ArTec. Not being able to easily buy the camera from a local dealer was.
http://www.photal.nl/fabrikanten/Prijslijs...uari%202009.pdf (http://www.photal.nl/fabrikanten/Prijslijsten/PL_2009_PDF/Prijslijst%20Sinar%20januari%202009.pdf)
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the rodenstock 45/55/70/90/135 is in the planned lens line from the artec and all have movements till the max. of the artec.
Hi Rainer,
are you referring to the "Apo Sironar Digital" lenses (so the non HR)? Or to a future series of lenses?
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Hi Rainer,
are you referring to the "Apo Sironar Digital" lenses (so the non HR)? Or to a future series of lenses?
Apo Sironar Digital, not sure how the 70mm is branded but it has also a big circle. btw. the 60HR can be shifted nearly 20mm too.
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Apo Sironar Digital, not sure how the 70mm is branded but it has also a big circle. btw. the 60HR can be shifted nearly 20mm too.
According to the specs the Apo Sironar Digital (non HR) are designed for pixelpitch up to 9 microns. The Digitars up to 6 microns and the HR up to 5 microns.
Don't know which of the non HR resolve good enough for a highres back but the one I tested was poor with (any) movements on the P45.
The 47XL @f11 holds sharpness well enough up to 17mm shift on the P45 (with 6.8 microns). Of course there is sharpness fall of but it's still okay. 20mm is too much as long as you need sharpness in the respective area.
I could very well work with lenses that are a bit limited in (diagonal) movements but I would always appreciate to have the 47XL with its huge image circle as an option for stitching.
Am curious about the new "Digaron-W" lenses...
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According to the specs the Apo Sironar Digital (non HR) are designed for pixelpitch up to 9 microns. The Digitars up to 6 microns and the HR up to 5 microns.
Don't know which of the non HR resolve good enough for a highres back but the one I tested was poor with (any) movements on the P45.
The 47XL @f11 holds sharpness well enough up to 17mm shift on the P45 (with 6.8 microns). Of course there is sharpness fall of but it's still okay. 20mm is too much as long as you need sharpness in the respective area.
I could very well work with lenses that are a bit limited in (diagonal) movements but I would always appreciate to have the 47XL with its huge image circle as an option for stitching.
Am curious about the new "Digaron-W" lenses...
from my first attempts the 35hr looks pretty good in the corners even when shiftet 12mm. So now the difference in image circle doesnt sound as large as from just lookin to the specs.
I am also suspicious how the 40 hr and 70hr will work.
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from my first attempts the 35hr looks pretty good in the corners even when shiftet 12mm. So now the difference in image circle doesnt sound as large as from just lookin to the specs.
yes, thanks! I am always reading carefully what Rainer and others say about the HRs especially regarding the real amount of shift. 12mm with a 35mm is great! If the 60HR goes up to nearly 20mm I'll take a serious look at it (if possible) as I am thinking about a Digitar 72 right now. If the 60HR is better... it is better and I'll take it. Though the Digitar 72 must be a great lens, too. But at this focal length I find it usefull to use it wide open (what is basically not the strength of the Digitars... but for me personally not a problem with wide angles). Anyway... the 47XL is an exception even in the Digitar line ... the image circle is really huge and it's a perfect lens for stitching (I get twice the resolution of the P45 at really remarkable quality... and even a bit more. If you think about uprezzing this is a serious factor that adds to IQ in the final product, i.e. printed image).
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yes, thanks! I am always reading carefully what Rainer and others say about the HRs especially regarding the real amount of shift. 12mm with a 35mm is great! If the 60HR goes up to nearly 20mm I'll take a serious look at it (if possible) as I am thinking about a Digitar 72 right now. If the 60HR is better... it is better and I'll take it. Though the Digitar 72 must be a great lens, too. But at this focal length I find it usefull to use it wide open (what is basically not the strength of the Digitars... but for me personally not a problem with wide angles). Anyway... the 47XL is an exception even in the Digitar line ... the image circle is really huge and it's a perfect lens for stitching (I get twice the resolution of the P45 at really remarkable quality... and even a bit more. If you think about uprezzing this is a serious factor that adds to IQ in the final product, i.e. printed image).
the 45mm rodenstock is very sharp from f8 to f22 till 20mm shift, also stopped down to f16 25mm arent a problem either.
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I just saw that Sinar says the 60 HR has 80mm image circle abd more shift capability than the 35HR (with 70mm image circle).
However Rodenstock says both (35 and 60) to have 70mm image circle ans same shift capability.
So what is true? does the 60hr offer more shift than the 35 or not?
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I just saw that Sinar says the 60 HR has 80mm image circle abd more shift capability than the 35HR (with 70mm image circle).
However Rodenstock says both (35 and 60) to have 70mm image circle ans same shift capability.
So what is true? does the 60hr offer more shift than the 35 or not?
i think i posted this 20 times here and finally sinar listened to my crying as it seems.
yes: the 60HR can be shifted app. 20mm.
its than not longer in he 100% HR specs, but its still till the edges very sharp even if moved to the limit of its image circla.
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i think i posted this 20 times here and finally sinar listened to my crying as it seems.
yes: the 60HR can be shifted app. 20mm.
its than not longer in he 100% HR specs, but its still till the edges very sharp even if moved to the limit of its image circla.
Thanks Rainer, I havent found this info by search
-sorry when you mentioned it before.
I think the 60 could complement my 35 very well and 20mm shift is fine for me.