Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: cmox on May 06, 2009, 06:05:08 pm
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Good weather, a good trekking bicycle (no suspension), too much equipment (of course) and a question that I found was never solved: how do you take a medium to large camera equipment (big DSLR, 3 zooms, long telephoto, Berlebach tripod) with you on a bicycle? How do you protect it from a good (bad) shaking?
I tried a rucksack, but the equipment weighs about 10 kilos plus the tripod, the center of gravity is too high with it, and my back is too weak. Many photographers use backpacks and like it, I don't.
I asked my camera dealer: is there a camera bag especially made for cyclists, e.g. extremely padded to protect my costly camera gear and with a bike mounting. No, not really.
I asked my bicycle dealer: is there a pannier especially made for photo equipment, e.g. extremely padded to protect my costly camera gear. His proposals:
- a trailer filled with bubble wrap
- a new bicycle, full suspension, , 2000 bucks
How do you transport your camera equipment on a bicycle? Did you find (or invent) the full-suspension carrier that I can bolt on my bicycle?
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Both camera and bike shop need to do more research.
Ortlieb Shuttle (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Ortlieb_Photo_Shuttle_Camera_Case/5360022387/) is your answer! I've got one, it clicks on and off bike in literally a second and can also be used as a comfortable backpack or trolley style. A good back pack is fine to wear, most aren't good!
(http://www.wiggle.co.uk/images/ortlieb%20photo%20shuttle.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3231/3051616074_8f12d4e72d.jpg)
Review here (http://www.bikecommuters.com/2008/11/22/ortlieb-shuttle-bike-review-part-1/)
Not sure what you'll do with tripod though.
Good full suspension and heavy loads like camera gear simply do not work as seat mounted racks cannot take the weight we carry.
That bike you illustrated looks more like a $500 bike than a $2000 bike, though using a URT [Unified Rear Triangle] design to allow a solid pannier rack is interesting. URTs are crap otherwise.
The other solution is something like a Bob trailer (http://www.bobgear.com/trailers/trailer.php?product_id=11) which tend to be very highly recommended for carrying heavy gear Even has suspension!
(http://www.bobgear.com/trailers/images/Ibex-Trailer.jpg)
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There was a recent thread about camera backpacks that might apply here. Several posters mentioned using a regular hiking backpack, one with a real internal frame (like the Osprey Atmos 35), and inserting a camera bag, or otherwise creating a camera compartment inside.
If I had to carry camera gear on my mountain bike, I would use my regular rack and my regular pannier bags and insert something like a Think Tank Urban Disguise 30 or 35 -- whatever fit properly. Those are narrow vertical-carry camera bags, made for tall lenses, and perfect for this sort of application. Alternatively, I could probably whip something together out of old camera bag components pretty quickly.
I already carry a smallish carbon tripod bungee corded to the top of the rack. No, it won't fit my Gitzo with the BH55 head, but my little Manfrotto 190CX3 with a small ball head works fine.
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I think you need to decide if you are staying on the road, or going off-road.
Camera equipment is still going to shake around violently even if it is in a padded bag, or on a full suspension bike, and especially if it is in a trailer. So you can only minimise the potential damage unless you ride around on smooth tarmac. My initial thought would be to buy a lightweight hardtail mtb with front suspension and mount a rack on the back, and use Ortlieb waterproof panniers to spread the weight either side with a smaller tripod on top of the rack. The best and most intelligent suspension system on a bicycle is the rider, so perhaps the camera body could be carried in a Think Tank Urban Disguise 30 (with the backpack strap attachement) on the body, or in a Camelback with a large enough storage pocket? Buy a good light bike and it will handle better when loaded an not add more weight to the uphill slogs than is absolutely necessary. Also try to go for one with disc brakes, they are better than rim brakes in any case, but really pay for themselves when going downhill carrying a heavy load.
Steve
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Both camera and bike shop need to do more research.
Ortlieb Shuttle (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Ortlieb_Photo_Shuttle_Camera_Case/5360022387/) is your answer! I've got one, it clicks on and off bike in literally a second and can also be used as a comfortable backpack or trolley style. A good back pack is fine to wear, most aren't good!
In fact, I had a look at that in the shop, an interesting idea, but:
- The special adapter makes the rack useless for all other purposes. On most racks it will make it difficult or impossible to use panniers, not to speak of opening the panniers or transporting a tripod.
- It looks like a mini fridge and weighs as much as a mini fridge: SIX KILOS including the photo insert.
- It makes the bicycle top-heavy: six kilos plus the weight of a good camera equipment on top of the rack.
- If you do not mount it on a folding type bike as shown in the review it will be very high. When you try to get on the bicycle you have to swing your leg over that box. I have a 28" full-size trekking bike which has a top tube, too, and I must admit I am neither tall nor limber enough for such a high setup. You might see me on America's Funniest Home Videos when I try
- The padding is not better than in one of the better Lowepro bags. If I attach my Lowepro Classified 250 AW to my bicycle I have a similar solution. Damping vibrations is not better with the Ortlieb.
So, that's not for me though it will work fine for many people.
The bike I showed is really that expensive and gets a lot of kudos in reviews, finest german overengineering, the manufacturer won many awards and is well-known here for the "Birdy" folding bike and its E-bikes.
The Bob trailer is interesting if I need to transport even more gear... even my big studio strobes could hit the road
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I think there might have been a thread a bit like this a couple of months ago. Personally, I would use side panniers, and pad the equipment well with purpose made lens cases,
and then surround those with some bubble wrap, or if touring, some spare clothing. It is the constant vibration that would cause most problems rather than the odd bump. In any case, sticking to smooth roads as much as possible would be a good idea. 10 kilos plus is a lot of weight to lug around on a bike, and to try to carry it all in a backpack for anything other than a very short trip would be unbearably uncomfortable, not to mention, unstable.
Jim
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I've seen a couple of example where people have converted 2 Peli cases to hook them on a rear bike rack. By packing sensibly you can balance the considerable weight on eitehr side of the bike.
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It might be beneficial to downsize your "out and about" kit as much as possible as well. If you're going to be shooting on tripod for things like landscape shots, there are probably smaller, lighter and cheaper lens options also available that perform just as well as the manufacturer's larger lenses when stopped down (again, you're on a tripod, right?). A DSLR with a smaller form factor would also cut weight, you can just carry a couple extra batteries. Do you really need three zooms, or could you substitute one for a prime? Do you really use all three of those zooms through all their ranges every trip, or is there one you just use occasionally that you could replace with a lower-spec lens?
When I'm taking a ride for photography, I bring my SLR (smallish, relatively speaking), a spare battery, a very small but fast prime, a lightweight wide-angle that performs well stopped down, and a tele that's heavier than I'd like it to be but performs nicely. I bring a monopod if I feel it'll be helpful. All of it fits in this http://www.amazon.com/Topeak-MTX-Trunk-Sid...ref=pd_sim_sg_3 (http://www.amazon.com/Topeak-MTX-Trunk-Side-Panniers/dp/B000FIAU0W/ref=pd_sim_sg_3) and I don't even notice it's there.
Or sometimes it's just the camera and a fast 50, and some creativity with framing.
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The bike I showed is really that expensive and gets a lot of kudos in reviews, finest german overengineering, the manufacturer won many awards and is well-known here for the "Birdy" folding bike and its E-bikes.
But its just a posh commuter style 'city' bike, you can see from its geometry, and would be a bad buy for carrying gear or doing any sort of distance on it.
Steve
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Honestly...I wouldn't take my good gear on a bike, except on my back. That is some pretty harsh vibration that is going on. I ski with my photo gear. I paddle with my photo gear. I hike on rough terrain with my photo gear. I have climbed with it.
I wouldn't put it on a bike-mounted rack or pannier. I would leave it on your back. If you can't carry it on your back, I wouldn't carry it. Your body is your best chance for vibration reduction. I really don't think that fine lenses would be well served on a bike, particularly if you are going on any sort of rail trail or single track mountain biking.
I got a G9 to go with me on rides.
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It might be beneficial to downsize your "out and about" kit as much as possible as well. If you're going to be shooting on tripod for things like landscape shots, there are probably smaller, lighter and cheaper lens options also available that perform just as well as the manufacturer's larger lenses when stopped down (again, you're on a tripod, right?).
What is a lighter alternative for the Leitz Telyt 6.8/560mm that I use frequently? For that beast, stopped down to f11, a tripod is a must at dim light in the early morning
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But its just a posh commuter style 'city' bike, you can see from its geometry, and would be a bad buy for carrying gear or doing any sort of distance on it.
Steve
You might be right, and I would really like to save a lot of money and keep my trekking bike because it is made to last forever, a handmade "Diamant". But then I have to solve the vibration problem and did not find a solution, there are no well-sprung, dampened bicycle racks available, not to speak of boxes or bags that are so well padded that I would like to put my camera and lens inside and drive my bike with an ease of mind. When I looked for the costly alternative, a new bike, I found that there are not so many full-suspension bikes with a rack that is part of the sprung mass. I found only this one. If you know alternatives let me know, this one is actually much too expensive for me - the cheapest one costs 1400 Euros.
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What is a lighter alternative for the Leitz Telyt 6.8/560mm that I use frequently? For that beast, stopped down to f11, a tripod is a must at dim light in the early morning
Some of the newer mirror telephoto lenses have decent optics. Michael uses one on his A900 and seems to like it, so there must be one out there that's up to your 5D ii. And you'd still need a tripod with one, I imagine (in dim morning light) but you'd have reduced that much weight, and you could probably use a lighter tripod with the lighter lens.
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Truly appreciate the quality of answers here.
I have done a lot of skiing photography.
I find that poorly carried gear compromises both skiing and photography.
My compromise has been to carry low--I've had several belt packs. Most recent was by LowePro. I think Kata has some interesting bags too, but I have no experience there. My lady doesn't understand my constant search for the right bag.
Like another poster I now carry a g9 and that has surprised me with the quality of work.
A thought--vibration is one thing. What happens if you drop the bike?
DaveL
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In fact, I had a look at that in the shop, an interesting idea, but:
- The special adapter makes the rack useless for all other purposes. On most racks it will make it difficult or impossible to use panniers, not to speak of opening the panniers or transporting a tripod.
I tried the rack after adptor was added with panniers - seemed to work fine to me.
Swinging leg over is more a matter of remembering something is on rack, rather than flexibility. Kit on bike was weird at first, but you get used to different weight/distribution fairly quickly.
The bike I showed is really that expensive and gets a lot of kudos in reviews, finest german overengineering, the manufacturer won many awards and is well-known here for the "Birdy" folding bike and its E-bikes.
Looks like cheap and nasty components on the bike to me and is probably aimed at people who don't know much about bikes. Just like you get Landrover or BMW badged bikes for 3 times the price of one without a car marquee sticker
What is is exactly?
Edit - found it. Looks like the version you posted a shot of is the cheap one. There are others with decent forks, and rear shock. That sort of design with a URT style suspension is about the only way to carry heavy gear on a full sus bike.
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As for gear on your back being dampened by your body. I had to constantly reassemble my Olympus OM lens that I used to carry that way, they were also a bit ancient it has to be said.
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Hi, I am an avid mountain biker (have participated in cross country competition +12 and 24 hour endurace races) and recently got into hiking for training and fun. Carrying photo gear while on the bike is not easy. First off, you need to carry the aboslute bare essentials. The lighter the better unless you will ride on flat terrain only. Keeping the gear dry and free from dust and dirt is necesary and not easy. Also, the gear needs to be stable.
In my experience adding weight to the bike GREATLY affects the handling of the bike and its performance MUCH more than adding weight on you + the vibration on the bike is intense. The body really dampens a lot of it. So, the best way to ride with any sort of gear its on your back with a good quality backpack.
One of the best for that purpose is Deuter's Trans Alpine 30. Its about as big as you want to and has great features including a water reservoir (similar to camelback). The most gear I would carry on a mountain adventure is my 1Dsmk3, 17-40mmL , 70-200mmf4L and a 50mm macro lens + a carbon tripod. I recently used one of lowepro TLZ cases and a few sliplock pouches inside my new backpack. A fully dedicated photobackpack didnt work for me (i tried a few and own several) on longer hikes. I you work out of your car then most any bag will do but as soon as you need to walk/hike for a few hours then you need a quality backpack.
You want to avoid larger top loading packs unless you need the space. Look for full panel access bags. There are many choices.
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Good weather, a good trekking bicycle (no suspension), too much equipment (of course) and a question that I found was never solved: how do you take a medium to large camera equipment (big DSLR, 3 zooms, long telephoto, Berlebach tripod) with you on a bicycle? How do you transport your camera equipment on a bicycle?
I'm an avid cyclist and I regularly take my equipment out for a spin. As others have noted, it's important to carefully select the equipment. For me, it's a cyclocross bike (no suspension), D700, 24 PC-E, Gitzo traveler and accessories all tucked into a backpack. I ride off-road and would never carry my equipment anywhere but on my back where I can absorb and dampen the vibrations. And I'm no spring chicken at 51 yrs old. YMMV. dave
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Hi, I am an avid mountain biker (have participated in cross country competition +12 and 24 hour endurace races) and recently got into hiking for training and fun. Carrying photo gear while on the bike is not easy. First off, you need to carry the aboslute bare essentials. The lighter the better unless you will ride on flat terrain only. Keeping the gear dry and free from dust and dirt is necesary and not easy. Also, the gear needs to be stable.
In my experience adding weight to the bike GREATLY affects the handling of the bike and its performance MUCH more than adding weight on you + the vibration on the bike is intense. The body really dampens a lot of it. So, the best way to ride with any sort of gear its on your back with a good quality backpack.
One of the best for that purpose is Deuter's Trans Alpine 30. Its about as big as you want to and has great features including a water reservoir (similar to camelback). The most gear I would carry on a mountain adventure is my 1Dsmk3, 17-40mmL , 70-200mmf4L and a 50mm macro lens + a carbon tripod. I recently used one of lowepro TLZ cases and a few sliplock pouches inside my new backpack. A fully dedicated photobackpack didnt work for me (i tried a few and own several) on longer hikes. I you work out of your car then most any bag will do but as soon as you need to walk/hike for a few hours then you need a quality backpack.
You want to avoid larger top loading packs unless you need the space. Look for full panel access bags. There are many choices.
Will this Deuter's Trans Alpine 30 pack hold MF cameras? A Hassy and two lenses film backs and such. I can not find an interal image anywhere on the web. Could you shoot a few and attach them for us to see.
Lee
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Both camera and bike shop need to do more research.
Ortlieb Shuttle (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Ortlieb_Photo_Shuttle_Camera_Case/5360022387/) is your answer! I've got one, it clicks on and off bike in literally a second and can also be used as a comfortable backpack or trolley style. A good back pack is fine to wear, most aren't good!
(http://www.wiggle.co.uk/images/ortlieb%20photo%20shuttle.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3231/3051616074_8f12d4e72d.jpg)
Review here (http://www.bikecommuters.com/2008/11/22/ortlieb-shuttle-bike-review-part-1/)
Not sure what you'll do with tripod though.
Good full suspension and heavy loads like camera gear simply do not work as seat mounted racks cannot take the weight we carry.
That bike you illustrated looks more like a $500 bike than a $2000 bike, though using a URT [Unified Rear Triangle] design to allow a solid pannier rack is interesting. URTs are crap otherwise.
The other solution is something like a Bob trailer (http://www.bobgear.com/trailers/trailer.php?product_id=11) which tend to be very highly recommended for carrying heavy gear Even has suspension!
(http://www.bobgear.com/trailers/images/Ibex-Trailer.jpg)
Looks a 2k bike to me, perhaps if you have a lot of weight to move you need one of these http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/r_m_delite_black.shtml (http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/r_m_delite_black.shtml)
Kevin.
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I didn't see it specifically mentioned, but you need to know that bikes generally have suspension not to make them ride a lot softer, but to keep the wheels in better contact with the ground, esp. when that ground is really rough. The first dual suspension mountain bikes were specifically engineered to keep one in control while doing bonzai 60 mph charges down rough mountain trails. I have a suspended mountain bike, but I bought it for high-speed commuting on rugged dirt trails: It ain't exactly cushy.
Sure, there have been other designs that claim to be made just for comfort, but the crowd still driving most of the engineering are extreme sports types. You'll find suspensions on a lot of folding bikes, but that's because those bikes have really small wheels, which would be nearly unridable without some mechanical damping. The softest ride you're going to find (probably a fat-tired beach cruiser) will still be relatively harsh to anything rigidly attached as cargo.
Backpacks work pretty well for protecting equipment (assuming you don't fall off), but they usually are not entirely comfortable to carry for very long. If it will be hot, they tend to trap sweat on your back. I like the looks of that Ortlieb case a lot, but I suspect that could still get unwieldy on really technical trails, depending on how burly you are of course.
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I think that you seriously need to re-evaluate what equipment you take.
I have got back into cycling recently and am asking myself the same question. I am leaning towards traveling lighter and leaving the SLR behind, I already have a DP1 which I do not think quite cuts it as a sole camera but something like the G1 or Oly Pen would be light plus you cpuld get away with a much lighter tripod too.
I am finding the Oly pen very very tempting but the lack of an EVF and no distance scale on the lens or screen is making me think twice, oh that and the price too.
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Looking back over all of the posts here, it seems that most people are assuming the rider is going off-road. The original poster said that he wanted to carry 10KG of equipment including a tripod. That would be a crazy amount of gear to carry on your back while cycling for anything other than a very short distance.
For road riding carrying the gear on the bike has to be the way to go. Bikes can carry a huge amount of weight if necessary and the rider quickly gets used to the different handling.
For off-roading, obviously the gear will get hammered on anything other than smooth trails, and even here the vibration would be bad news. In this scenario I would carry a very light camera in a small pack, and if you need a tripod, carry a cheap one strapped to a rack if you can fit one.
Anyone who has tried to cycle with a 10kg pack on their back will know that it is just a very unpleasant way to ruin a bike ride, whereas it is quite feasible to cover very long distances on the road with a correctly laden bike. One of the beauties of cycling with a load compared to hiking, is that the bike will take the weight. All you have to do is propel it!
Jim
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Maybe check out the Ute by Kona, here:
2009 Kona Ute (http://www.konaworld.com/09_ute_u.cfm)
While the "large ute bag" may not be the correct bag for carrying camera gear, the large rear platform rack system is longer than most.
Looks like this bike was built for carrying heavy loads.
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Anyone who has tried to cycle with a 10kg pack on their back will know that it is just a very unpleasant way to ruin a bike ride, whereas it is quite feasible to cover very long distances on the road with a correctly laden bike. One of the beauties of cycling with a load compared to hiking, is that the bike will take the weight. All you have to do is propel it!
I've done a few long road trips in my time, and agree entirely with the above quote. Even the weight of an SLR and lens in a backpack would get very uncomfortable after a day in the saddle. I used to carry a Canon D60, 2 or 3 lenses, and sometime a carbon fibre tripod in ordinary rear pannier bags mounted on the back of a road bike. I also carried a small laptop for storing my photos, spare clothing, and a few other odds and ends.
The weight was easy to deal with - a more serious problem was that I'd want to stop and take some photos when I saw anything interesting, which slowed my progress. I stored the camera and lenses in ordinary soft padded cases, which seemed to protect them just fine. For what it's worth, I had one (fairly minor) crash with my equipment aboard, and nothing was damaged. Probably nothing would keep your gear safe in a serious crash, but the same thing could be said about the cyclist too.