Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Willow Photography on February 20, 2009, 03:56:10 pm
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[attachment=11646:problemskin.jpg]
Cold in Norway, you know
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Hi Willow,
Kodak do a good skin smoothing plug in.
http://asf.com/products/plugins/airpro/pluginAIRPRO/ (http://asf.com/products/plugins/airpro/pluginAIRPRO/)
Cheers
Simon
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portraiture (http://www.imagenomic.com/pt.aspx)
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Hire a retoucher.
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Oh go on then, I can't resist myself. Here, for a start it seems your way dark, that accounts for half of it, is the model caucasian? I did a few tricks too, what do you think?
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Hi guys
Thanks for answering.
Simon: Kodak just gives blurry skin with the miscolouring still visible.
Not what I want
Hans: Maybe I should look into it, but I do not think auto-anything works.
Anthony: Nice result, but I think you understood that answer was not what
I was looking for. If you explain how you did it, I would be grateful.
I know my way around PS pretty good, so dont underestimate me
woof75: She is caucasian, but not albino he he.
I am not sure your effort is serious, but if it is, it was not what I was looking for.
Willow
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take a look at the channels - one will probably reveal a good mask, use that to D/Burn and cc w/ curves or selective color -it's going to be a tone move if you want to maintain the texture - this is my usual technique and I do a lot of skin like that - athletes who are cold at the shoot and dont see the sun much (oregon)
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[attachment=11646:problemskin.jpg]
Cold in Norway, you know
Hi, You know that program on US TV--"Magics Greatest Secrets Revealed" well I'll probably get frogmarched out of the Pretend Retouchers Lot but anyway --while I can appreciate AntonyR not disclosing his technique,after all if he makes his living from that work, he is entitled to keep these to himself.
Anyway this is I think how he did it--bear in mind the amounts mentioned /etc are variable to taste/final output/print/etc
A: Dupe the B/Ground Layer
B: Filter> Other > HiPass set say 15px( 5-20)
C: Gaussian Blur> say 3-8 Px
D: Invert
F: Change blend Mode to Linear Light and add BLACK layer Mask
G: Brush the the skin where you want smoothness but texture in WHITE
Careful to keep away from hard edges/etc
Good Luck.
DesW
[attachment=11657:DW_Version.jpg]
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I have made this mask and adjust selectiv colour and D&B thing.
It looks nice if you work very hard ( and long ).
But if you have a lot of pictures, in many cases it takes too long time.
I do not think that is what Anthony does, because the skin details he gets, is not there
in the original picture.
I think he paint/clone it in someway. And it looks good and even and I like it!
Maybe the best retouchers have a skin detail archive
Hopefully he will tell us whats the secret.
And I need it before monday
willow
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Thanks Des.
That looks good.
Tried it and it works like h..
A little tweaking from case to case and it is a jewel for me.
I owe you a beer or two if you come to Oslo
This forum actually works from time to time.
Willow
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Thanks Des.
That looks good.
Tried it and it works like h..
A little tweaking from case to case and it is a jewel for me.
I owe you a beer or two if you come to Oslo
This forum actually works from time to time.
Willow
Great stuff Will-- Ssssssh just between you and me-Ha!
Good luck,
Des
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Des, I've been wondering how the smooth skin look is achieved, now I know. It works great, thanks! Now how do I apply that to a car? Jim
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The best results are gotten with a technique which is usually refered to as Dodge & burn. the theory is to burn (darken) the highlights and dodge (lighten) the shadows and thus evening out the 3D appearence of the skin detail.
This can be achieved in a few different ways but the two most common is either use a 50% neutral grey layer in soft light mode. Paint with a very very faint (3-5% opacity) brush on this layer, white to dodge, black to burn. Its quite common to also have a color layer for any discoloration that may occure when the tone is different in the shadows/highlights.
The second method is to use two curve layers, one slightly raised (to lighten/dodge) and one slightly lowered (to darken/burn). The disadvantage of this is that you have to switch layers to switch between dodge and burn, but this usually means you start with one layer and finish that, darkening all the highlights for example. The big advantage is that you can adjust shadows and highlights separately.
Now this is what a professional retoucher will charge you a LOT of money for because as you may understand it takes a looooooot of time. The results however is without a doubt the best you will get and will far surpass any automatic method since the artist can make valued judgement exactly how hard to apply the modifications on every wrinkle and skin pore.
Note that this is usually done after you remove larger blemishes.
One example of this can be found at http://imaginara.tumblr.com/post/55912597/...al-about-how-to (http://imaginara.tumblr.com/post/55912597/a-updated-and-narrated-tutorial-about-how-to)
(And since im not a professiona retoucher, it wont be perfect. It will however explain the technique
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The best results are gotten with a technique which is usually refered to as Dodge & burn.
Your dodge and burn technique is reminiscent of the old days with chemical retouching, with reducers an dyes. However I think it's too slow for practical commercial purposes. I find that the healing brush for quick larger spots followed by the technique that Des explained is a more practical way, at least for me.
Talking of retouching, could you guys share what's your best way to give a pale(white and pinkish) caucasian skin a bit of a treatment to get a nice, evenly darker and cold tan, similar to the initial sample here (but a touch cooler). I've tried things like multiplying a layer (at various opacities) to build up tone and then play with hue/saturation, but it's always interesting to see other ways.
Edward
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Hi guys
Thanks for answering.
Simon: Kodak just gives blurry skin with the miscolouring still visible.
Not what I want
Hans: Maybe I should look into it, but I do not think auto-anything works.
Anthony: Nice result, but I think you understood that answer was not what
I was looking for. If you explain how you did it, I would be grateful.
I know my way around PS pretty good, so dont underestimate me
woof75: She is caucasian, but not albino he he.
I am not sure your effort is serious, but if it is, it was not what I was looking for.
Willow
I think your idea of what caucasian skin looks like is actually quite different to what it is. Hold your arm up to the monitor and compare it to what you have, I think your file is way too dark.
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I think your idea of what caucasian skin looks like is actually quite different to what it is. Hold your arm up to the monitor and compare it to what you have, I think your file is way too dark.
DesW, technique plus a blurred layer of dodge and burn gave me a great result with this pic.
DesW, gave a few thousand grands worth of tip, if you think the time it will spare on using it on the long run.
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I'm a professional retoucher too, fwiw. Here's my quick fix.
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I'm a professional retoucher too, fwiw. Here's my quick fix.
Now we only want to know how you did it
Willow
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I think your idea of what caucasian skin looks like is actually quite different to what it is. Hold your arm up to the monitor and compare it to what you have, I think your file is way too dark.
First of all - how one wants the skin to look is very personal.
It is not IMO a correct skin or a incorrect skin look.
Second - my example was not a finished example, only a raw starting point.
Third - your example is IMO too white/grey. But it can be cool as an effect, if that is what you want.
Fourth - my arm does not compare to most of my sun loving female models
Willow
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First of all - how one wants the skin to look is very personal.
It is not IMO a correct skin or a incorrect skin look.
Second - my example was not a finished example, only a raw starting point.
Third - your example is IMO too white/grey. But it can be cool as an effect, if that is what you want.
Fourth - my arm does not compare to most of my sun loving female models
Willow
Yes different countries like different skin tones too, newscasters in america are orange but in western europe there quite cool tones. Different markets have different skin tone preferences too, my work is editorial fashion in NY Paris and London and for that cooler skin tones are the norm. (there are exceptions of course).
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Oh go on then, I can't resist myself. Here, for a start it seems your way dark, that accounts for half of it, is the model caucasian? I did a few tricks too, what do you think?
You actually Jurgentellerized this photo.
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Des, I've been wondering how the smooth skin look is achieved, now I know. It works great, thanks! Now how do I apply that to a car? Jim
Morning James,
Luv ya work by the way-- now with the sorta dosh you'd be earning --don't tell me you have to do your OWN retouching?
Hmmm-- probably not on an infinite colour depth subject like a Car surface as the technique is to retain some "texture"
Maybe it could add some more orange peel if required--Ha!
Good Stuff
DesW
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Des, It didn't work too well on my test Citroen but I'll use it for my people work. Remember, I'm in Detroit where the world is ending! (At least as we know it.) I'm shooting for half the dosh I'd get a couple of years ago and yes, for some of my clients, I do the retouching too (not many, but some). Anyways, thanks for the tip, I'd never have figured it out! By the way, how about some pictures of the Great Barrier Reef? Jim
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Now we only want to know how you did it
Willow
Well, it took some time for me to work out my own personal favourite skin solution, and I hope you understand that I make part of my living from retouching, so I can only offer my services as a retoucher
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Its a little strange to say, hay look I can do it but i am not sharing how I did it. Why bother posting? I don't think posting that type of info here is going to hurt business. You never learned something from this forum?
Well, it took some time for me to work out my own personal favourite skin solution, and I hope you understand that I make part of my living from retouching, so I can only offer my services as a retoucher
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Its a little strange to say, hay look I can do it but i am not sharing how I did it. Why bother posting? I don't think posting that type of info here is going to hurt business. You never learned something from this forum?
Actually, Pixjohn, although I too love it when people share their secrets, I completely understand foto-z or anyone who keeps their tricks close to their chest.
It has probably taken him hours and hours of experimentation to perfect his technique, so why would he share it with all and sundry.
The theory is that if nobody shared, we would still be in the Stone Age, and that's probably true. On the other hand, the tools are there for everybody to use, just use them and you may learn something new quite by chance.
Edward
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Its a little strange to say, hay look I can do it but i am not sharing how I did it. Why bother posting? I don't think posting that type of info here is going to hurt business. You never learned something from this forum?
let him feel cool and special , go to retouchpro.com and search a little you sure learn more than he can offer.
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I dont think ive ever found anything on retouchpro worth looking into, probably because I give up after 5 minutes of seeing the same posts over and over again.
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To be honest - I respect and understand why he doesnt want to share his knowledge.
I sure like to know how he did it because he had the best version, but I respect he doesnt want
to reveal it.
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1) QUALITY skin retouching takes TIME. No quick software filters or 4-step technique
applies to everything. Please reread this sentence for as long as it takes to sink in.
2) TEXTURE is about how the LIGHT affects the surface. Understand what that means
and you can understand the techniques behind pros and amateurs alike.
ZOOM in close. For every bump, or pimple....there is DARK side of it and a LIGHT
side of it. For every large pore, the same holds true.
The direction of the light determines which side is which. The "softness" of the light
we use in photography determines the contrast between the DARK and LIGHT. This is
why softboxes placed close to the model produces a more pleasing skin texture.
Those of you who shoot with strobes or hard light will see skin texture more
pronounced.
now....
The professional retoucher's technique is to "Lighten" the DARK sides and to "Darken"
the LIGHT sides -- which produces and more consistent skin texture. Often they work
at the pixel level with a 2px brush. VERY Meticulous, VERY time consuming. For most
of us, a 4px or 5px brush would suffice.
Method 1:
1) Fill a NEW layer with 50% Gray.
2) Change this Layer's Mode to SOFT LIGHT.
3) With a paint brush (3-5px, 80% Hardness) Paint the Dark pixels with WHITE.
1) Fill a NEW layer with 50% Gray.
2) Change this Layer's Mode to SOFT LIGHT.
3) With a small paint brush (3-5px, 80% Hardness) Paint the Light pixels with Black.
When you are done, adjust the Opacity levels to suit your taste.... Or you can set the
Opacity of your brush to begin with (No less than 40%).
Method 2:
1) Create new layer, lock the layer positioning so it doesn't move.
2) Create a clone brush (3px, 75% Hardness, Opacity = 8% "Sample All Layers =
ON") brush that is set to LIGHTEN.
3) Paint Dark pixels to lighten them. Multiple strokes will lighten it with each pass.
1) Create new layer, lock the layer positioning so it doesn't move.
2) Create a clone brush (3px, 75% Hardness, Opacity = 8% "Sample All Layers =
ON") brush that is set to DARKEN.
3) Paint Light pixels to darken them. Multiple strokes will lighten it with each pass.
Method 3:
Use low Exposure Dodge & Burn brushes to directly affect the pixels. This is not
recommended as it is destructive to the pixels.
These are VERY GENERAL techniques, but it outlines the foundation for evening out
the texture in the skins surface.
The reason why pros DO NOT BLUR is because it affects pixels beyond the scope of
the area you wish to fix, and eliminates the chaotic patterns of real skin texture.
What about skin tone?
Most skin has some sort of tonal imbalance. Red spots, Dark Spots, Scars, etc. For
the most part these can be clone over with a clone brush at 90% opacity and then
corrected at the pixel layer to blend in with surrounding skin texture.
If a person has large colored spots or sunburn, these can be adjusted more globally
using the Hue/Saturation filter and adjusting the RED channel. This technique is found
in the book SKIN by Lee Varis.
Tips:
1) Always use a MUA for portrait work, the 20 minutes she spends can save you
countless hours of retouching.
2) Use hard or soft lighting and know the advantages and disavantages of each as it
pertains to how it affects skin texture.
3) Invest in a Wacom Pen Tablet or something similar. For those who have always
used a mouse it will take about 2 days to get used to, but the change will pay off in
ways you can't yet imagine.
4) Know your audience.... a 40 year old woman is not made to look like an 18 year
old, so retouch accordingly.
1) Copy the entire image on a new layer then turn the layer off. (This is your Backup!
...and will be used later.)
2) Use Surface Blur at a low setting to even out the skin tones and splotches in your
SPECIFIED area (not Globally). Using a layer mask to affect just the part you want.
Now that you have used Blur you need to put some texture into that affected area.
Using your Backup Layer....
1) Turn on Backup Layer and place above your final composition
1) Use Filter/Other/HighPass at 1 pixel.
2) Change the layer to Soft Light.
You may need to repeat this process if the texture you put back into the image is not
strong enough. Repeat at 1 pixel.
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Jason Fried (37signals) has a different attitude about sharing one's expertise, ideas being copied, etc.
http://www.businessinnovationfactory.com/i...if4-jason-fried (http://www.businessinnovationfactory.com/iss/video/bif4-jason-fried)
Nice of you to post your process here, Eric.
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Jason Fried (37signals) has a different attitude about sharing one's expertise, ideas being copied, etc.
http://www.businessinnovationfactory.com/i...if4-jason-fried (http://www.businessinnovationfactory.com/iss/video/bif4-jason-fried)
Nice of you to post your process here, Eric.
It is just one of many I use taken from the internet. Dodging and burning, although tidiuos, is the best way for retaining texture.
But many ties I used faded smoothing layers also.
Snook
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Jason Fried (37signals) has a different attitude about sharing one's expertise, ideas being copied, etc.
http://www.businessinnovationfactory.com/i...if4-jason-fried (http://www.businessinnovationfactory.com/iss/video/bif4-jason-fried)
Thank you for the link Dale, that was refreshing!
Yair
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Thank you for the link Dale, that was refreshing!
Yair
Glad you enjoyed it, Yair. I enjoyed it when I first saw it too.
Best,
Dale