Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Digital Cameras & Shooting Techniques => Topic started by: RobertJ on January 29, 2005, 04:07:50 pm
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Take a look at the lens selections for both brands and see which one you prefer. Try to handle numerous types of bodies from Nikon and Canon. They both make fantastic bodies, especially the pro versions, but they do handle differently. The handling and ergonomics of both brands are definitely different, and you might have a personal taste for which body you would prefer to handle.
T-1000
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Hasselblad optics in Canon lenses? I wouldn't know, but there are adapters that allow you to use Zeiss lenses on the EF mount on your Canon SLR. Also, there are adapters for Nikon lenses as well.
Canon's optics are superior in the telephoto range, but Nikon seems to have the better wide angle lenses.
T-1000
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Starting from scratch, I would seriously consider a Pentax system, with their superb Limited lenses. Yes, they don't have 50-60 lenses, but they have what us, mere mortals, will ever need.
Choose based on lenses, and on handling, not on features or brand wars, since these days all cameras are able to deliver the goods, under normal circumstances.
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If you want a Nikon or a Canon DO NOT PICK UP AN OLYMPUS E-1.
This reminds me that, as fas as I know, the DSLR owning regulars in this forum include the expected many Canonites and fairly many Nikonians (including Fuji and Kodak owners), plus us few, proud Olympus E-1/E-300 owners. And at least one who seems likely to get a Minolta 7D soon.
Are there any Pentax DSLR users around here? The *-ist D was on my short list, but I have not heard much of it lately.
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I am told this is a bogus page. I translated with Bable and it is just gibberish in content. No real news.
Bob
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There is no D200 coming out?
I know for sure that there will be new DSLRs announced by Canon, Nikon and Olympus at PMA later this month, along with new f/2 zoom lenses from Olympus. I just do, OK?
Actually, there is no evidence of whether or not a "D200" is coming out; Nikon forums keep chewing over rumors and bogus PDF flyers for new cameras.
Unless you have a very profitable gig in the next few week's that needs a new camera, hold you powder!
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I know that everyone by now might be flipping at the question. I know that it is vauge but I am moving up the photography ladder and would like to start amatur photography. The reason I ask this question is that I am worried to start with one camera, buy lenses and accessories. Only later to find that I should of chose the other one. I do not want to produce award winning photographs nor sell them. My pictures are for my personal use as a hobby. I was never fond of the EOS 300D's build quality so I had my eye set on the Nikon D70 a beautiful camera might I add. As I was preparing to make the purchase the Canon 20D comes out and I hit a brick wall waiting for the review. If I wasn't just starting and started my collection. I wouldn't hesitate to continue on the same brand. All things aside Overall is the best brand Canon or Nikon?
*Please excuse the question I know its very vauge, I hope you can help me with this.
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Ditto, Ditto. I almost changed over to Nikon for the superior flash metering for my wedding work, the only reason I stayed with Canon was that I felt that the shutter release was better on the canon, I tripped the shutter on the nikon too often when trying to focus. A tiny difference, but then it was kinda important to me!
I very much don't like the ergonomics of the D70 while I love the feel and heft of the 10D with battery pack (I didn't take to the 20D at all, just doesn't feel right in my hand), if you are going to go out there and do some serious photography then you have to be very happy with the camera you have.
That said if you are primarily going for landscape work the ergonomics may be less important, my Mamiya 645 was not exactly ergonmic, especially with a huge manfrotto L bracket on it, but then I wan't trying to handhold the beast!
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I guess overall the battle between the cameras is between Nikon & Canon kind of like Coke and Pepesi. I don't know if its their marketing thats got me more focused on those 2 brands. I have always fond of Lieca cameras but my only issue with those (although they have not seriously hit the digital market with a boom except the R9 Digital back) that sometimes I would like to use AF, burst and all the nifty gadetry. I have never ruled out other brands I do like the quality of Olympus and Pentex too. the 4 thirds is sturring quite a few issue and I have seen many forums discuss it. The *ist has also done well with reviewers. I always am a frim beliver of brand loyalty but never say that one is better than the other. I guess I'm trying to choose the group that I want to begin my journey into photography with. I understand that its a matter of opinion and everyone choses the product that suits them more.
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I know on person who has a collection of nearly 20 lenses from Nikonm just switched to Canon. I ask myself why the bold move? What drove it. He says they are better, but again its an opinion. I heard the 20D from canon has not info in the viewfinder is that true?
If I were you I'd wait a few weeks and see what happens at PMA.
Whatever your friend has done, don't assume you'd be happy with his choice. You have to make your own choice. You may prefer the handling of one brand over another. Cameras are not fashion accessories where you have to follow the crowd.
Quentin
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If you want a Nikon or a Canon DO NOT PICK UP AN OLYMPUS E-1. Best not even look at one. You've been warned :-)
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Many modern SLR lenses pass information to the body. For example, newer Nikon lenses pass information about the distance at which the lens is focused, which is use by the metering and flash system I believe. Olymus 4/3 lenses pass information about distortion (barrel or pincushion) and vignetting, which can be used in post-processing to correct for those optical imperfections. (The vignetting correction can also be done in camera, but it is a bit slow.)
The Pentax lens mount is perhaps the most old fashioned with Nikon second, which has the upside of making them the top two for compatability with old lenses. Canon and Minolta mounts are more modern in some ways, and the very new 4/3 mount is understandably the one with the most newfangled electronic features, such as user upgradable software ("firmware") on the chips in the lenses.
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Most Nikon forums (dpreview) are in a state of insanity, with so many people spreading rumors or posting bogus, photoshopped, future Nikon camera bodies and links. :(
T-1000
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You need to visit a store and handle both. Look at the lenses that are available on both systems, and then make your decision.
In the long run both will provide you with great images. But issues like "feel", handling, controls and viewfinder, are something that you need to decide on for yourself.
There is no right or wrong answer, only opinions. And, unless you knew where the person voicing those opinions is coming from, what are they worth?
Michael
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Thanks, I really apprieciate all your help with this. They both are wonderful cameras yet every individual model feels different from the other. I've heard a rumor (some of them Nikon owners) that canon use hasselblad optics on their lenses? I have seen no mention of this but its been repeated to my a couple of times. If it was any true would it give canon and an advatage? When it comes to the overal quality and performance of lenses, does any brand have an overall strength over the other?
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hehehe...Good one it is kind of how you put it. I never thought of it that way. Like I mentioned earlier those 2 brands stood out maybe because of all the influnce in the market Ad's, reviews, etc....Also that most of the photographers that I have been in close contact that used 35mm, & digital went for those 2 brands. I don't know if it was influnce or if its really the preference. I know on person who has a collection of nearly 20 lenses from Nikonm just switched to Canon. I ask myself why the bold move? What drove it. He says they are better, but again its an opinion. I heard the 20D from canon has not info in the viewfinder is that true?
I have my eye set on both the D60 & 20D. Although they are not the same catogry but they are the best of the range I am looking at. Price is an issue but its not the main driver. Reason is they are 6mp and above.
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The support I'm getting is very helpful, all valid and important points. I was waiting to see what Nikon will bring out. Since I saw nothing out untill now I'm sure PMA will have new comers that will give me a better picture of my choices. Its amazing that everyone in the field has a a guidline for chosing a camera. Its never one size fits all or one buyers guide to your next camera is quite large when you. I heard a photogrpher once say that Canon cameras lenses are are newer and more advanced give more information to the camera. He said that Nikon wanted to keep their brand loyal customers by making all their new cameras work on older system. I don't know if he said that as Canon owner. How true is it?
I have seen the resaults of Pentex 67IIn they are very good. I like the *ist the reviews are good too. I was not too happy with the e-300 reviews.
Nikons have always felt good to hold a shoot with personally. I am fond of how they feel. Canon on the other hand can't be overlooked
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... the significant ongoing industry shake-up (that's actually been going on for years ... Kodak film cameras, Bronica, Mamya 35mm, Olympus OM series, etc ... RIP)
That is the twilight of the market for film and manual focus cameras, and perhaps also an effect of the downsizing of typical format size choices, which has substantially reduced the market share for medium format.
On the other hand, the digital SLR industry seems to be growing quickly, and very profitable; far more profitable than the compact digicam sector, which is being "commoditized". There are three more companies making digital DLRs than have made autofocus film SLR's recently; Kodak, Fuji and Olympus. Perhaps one could also count Mamiya soon.
I see not the slightest evidence of DSLR options being reduced to a duopoly.
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If I were you, and are starting from scratch, go with Nikon. Theres a lot of used lenses out there for a whole lot less than what it costs to buy new, and they all are back word compatible, that is, they will at least work. The older lenses are not going to work with the meter of a D70, and won't have AF, but they are even less expensive.
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There is no D200 coming out? I shall wait for PMA to see whats coming out. I wanted to know something about the 8 MP Dslr's is it true that the size of the pixels are smaller than 6mp Dslr's? It seems my I'm moving towards the Nikon. I feel that I'm more comfortable with the Nikon over the Canons. I think the main reason I still didn't get a dslr is the fact that I wait for newer and better cameras. If I keep this up I will end up with no camera and very strong will to wait. My P&S makes me feel as if I can take better pictures but I have to upgrade. It kind of feels like running a maraton in soccer shoes. Does anyone know if any upgrades are on the way?
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I agree wholeheartedly with the advice people have been giving to pick what you personally like using-possibly with some bias towards either Canon or Nikon due to their fuller systems than Pentax, Minolta, Olympus. There are a couple of additional considerations, based on the particular type of photography you do.
If you think you may want a REALLY high resolution, cost no object camera in the future, Canon has been better about introducing those than Nikon-they cost $8000, but Nikon hasn't been competing with them. On the other hand, Nikon has the D70, which is the best $1000 body out there right now (I wouldn't consider any Canon Rebel, because the controls are too hard to use-if you go Canon, get at least a 20D or even a used 10D). Nikon also has a VERY interesting $2000 body (if you can still get one). The D2h doesn't get a lot of mention around here, because it's "only" 4.1 mp. Don't let that fool you-I own one, plus a D70, and the D2h gives better prints.
What's special about the D2h is that it is an ultra-rugged professional camera with fully professional metering and focus for $2000. Every other digital SLR under $4000 has the heritage of a $300 film camera in it-the D2h has the heritage of a $2000 film camera. If you want or need the build quality, the incredible AF or the very high (8 fps) frame rate, and you don't have $4000 for a Canon 1D mk II, the D2h is your only choice. If these features don't matter to you, it is heavier than you need, not to mention more expensive. As for the 4.1 mp, I print 12x18 inches from mine all the time, and am very satisfied with the quality. I have printed 16x24, and I'm still satisfied (although I know that is close to the limit).
Either Canon or Nikon are great choices, and each has a special camera or two that the other one can't compete with. I don't know Canon well, but there are plenty of people here who do.
-dan
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Best answer I've heard to a many times asked question.
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If you don't have anything invested in either system yet, consider Four Thirds. Olympus is the only big player at the moment, but some big names, including Panasonic, Kodak, and Fuji are participating (to varying degrees) in this new, open standard. You will hear the standard FUD from some people about how this system isn't going to make it, how it doesn't have options for certain purposes. Maybe, but I'm happy. Dumping Canon for an E-1 was, for me, a very good decision.
You're FUD detector should go off when you start reading posts about "viability," "upgrade path," "high ISO noise," etc. They'll talk about anything except what matters to me, which is "Do I like using the camera?" and "Do I like the pictures I get?"
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I was in a similar situation to you a long time ago, when I set out to replace my Instamatic by an SLR. I concluded that the quality and options available from any of the major makers, Canon, Minolta, Nikon, Olympus or Pentax, went well beyond where I was likely to go. So I chose what worked best for me in my initially modest price range, and ended up with a Pentax K-1000.
With a DSLR today, I would equally consider all five of those brands, judging which bodies and lenses in my price range (including some room for upgrading in future) work best for me. Restricting yourself to the one or two brands with the most high level professional options is like buying a car only from a maker that competes successfully in Formula One.
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The profusion of high quality, dependable cameras certainly presents a dilemma as what brand to buy. If you are going to buy one body and a couple of mid-range lenses and keep them for 10 years you almost can't go wrong with any system. If however, you have any tendency to be a "gear-head" (personally I have suffered from the disease for many years ... and its associated syndrome bankacct depletis) you might want to consider either Canon or Nikon most seriously. Both are likely to survive the significant ongoing industry shake-up (that's actually been going on for years ... Kodak film cameras, Bronica, Mamya 35mm, Olympus OM series, etc ... RIP) and offer a tremendous variety of price points. The only limitation to either of these systems is the depth of your pocket. Between Canon & Nikon ... pick the one that's feels most comfortable ( I own both and the differences are great food for these forums but make very little difference in the ability to take good pictures) ... one man's opinion.
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The answer, IMHO, can be summed up as so...
You've waited for some time, so wait another month or so for the PMA fallout to appear. First, decide how much you want to spend on a body. Go to a good, quiet camera store and get the model from Nikon and Canon that meet your budget. Hang a decent comparible lens on each. Hold these babies in your hands. The one that talks to you, stirs your soul, is your new partner.
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It seems I might have been the only one who has heard of the information about the Canon lens passing information to the camera from the lens because of the connectors in the lens. I have had a liking to Nikon cameras they seem to have a certain solid feel to them. I really didn't like how the Canon 300D compared to the build of the Nikon. The only thing that made me stop before purchasing the D70 was the Canon 20D.
BTW, did you guys see this?
tech.sina.com.cn/digi/2005-01-03/1516493165.shtml
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I'd definitely wait for PMA. I think you are worrying too much about things like who has the most recent lens mount etc that are almost irrelevant. Nikon and Canon both make great lenses. Sigma and Tamron both make independent alternative lenses for Nikon and Canon. You can't go far wrong with either system. Chose what feels right to you.
Check out Olympus and the 4/3 system. The E1 is a great handling camera, and an upgrade is expected soon.
Quentin
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Thanks Dan...I was really shocked that Nikon didn't have anything up their sleeve for the PMA. I was expecting atleast a D200. I have had so much support from this forum. This is one of the rare times in forums that I get very professional and helpful advice. I was amazed with the unified response I was getting from everyone. It seems I have a liking towards the Nikon D70 but to tell you the truth your message really put a spin on the choice I was going to make. Especially this line:
"Every other digital SLR under $4000 has the heritage of a $300 film camera in it-the D2h has the heritage of a $2000 film camera."
A while back I was discussing the Nikon/Canon with a colleuge at work and I pointed out that I liked the D70 more that the E300 (Rebel) and gave him reasons that made me reach my judgement. Today to my surprise he had a D70 when I asked him what made you chose a D70 he said "YOU?" I seem to have passed my prefrences and helped a person with his decision yet I have not answered it for myself. I guess my only issue is that I want a camera that will do it all. Although day after day being a tech obsessed individual, I realized that there is no such thing as a do it all device. I have changed my mind about so many things its costly. I guess its finding what has more of what you want. A friend of mine once said if you buy a camera you should be able to cover its cost within 6 months of purchasing it or else its not worth it. Unfortunatly, my work is mine only and I do it for the fun of it. So my response to covering its cost would be any camera I buy will set me back on what I will pay for add-ons and accessories.
BTW has anyone heard that the newer DSLR's will have the option that P&S and prosumer cameras have. Where you could actualy see what your shooting on the LCD?