Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Richard Man on January 01, 2009, 03:52:32 am
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OK, the situation with the Z3100 newest driver has gotten from bad to worse. Lets say I have a 17x7" document. I have to define a page size of 7x17". OK fine, but how do I print it correctly? I am using Windows, Photoshop CS, and there is no combination of what I select in the Photoshop driver and the Z3100 printer driver to print out (effectively) 17x7". Please if you get it working, please share the secrets!
Thanks.
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I wouldn't define a printer page size of 17x7 or 7x17. That doesn't make sense to me. On a 24" printer I might have a page size of 8 x 24 to accommodate this image. Are you using roll paper or sheets?
Printing from Photoshop is frustrating at best. Maddening most of the time.
Give the trial version of Qimage (http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage/) a try. It might make more sense to you. Take advantage of the learn by example tutorial.
There are those who will complain about the Qimage UI. They're generally the ones who've forgotten the years they've spent rationalizing the Photoshop UI.
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I wouldn't define a printer page size of 17x7 or 7x17. That doesn't make sense to me. On a 24" printer I might have a page size of 8 x 24 to accommodate this image. Are you using roll paper or sheets?
Printing from Photoshop is frustrating at best. Maddening most of the time.
Give the trial version of Qimage (http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage/) a try. It might make more sense to you. Take advantage of the learn by example tutorial.
There are those who will complain about the Qimage UI. They're generally the ones who've forgotten the years they've spent rationalizing the Photoshop UI.
I have been printing from Qimage for years now. It uses color management and has free lifetime upgrades, and does interpolation and profile/size/resolution based output sharpening on the fly, so that you never have to uprezz and save humungous sized files if you don't want to. Qimage also lets me bypass the printer's fetish of having unequal margins on the page. While I have a 24" Z3100 for larger prints, I have found it easy and less expensive than my smaller printer in terms of ink and paper costs to make smaller prints as well Here is what I do:
1) In the Z3100 driver, I set up some custom sizes: 24"x 8.5" and 24"x17" for example, with the printer set to eliminate white space above and below the print. I use the first size to print 2 8.5x11's in landscape orientation, or 2 11x17's in portrait orientation, per page. I then line them up on my mat cutter and cut them to size, easily.
2) In Qimage, the selected printer page size comes up in the preview, for example, 24x17. I have custom sizes in Qimage for 11x17, 8.5x11, etc. If I am doing 11x17's I select that size, the profile and rendering intent, the interpolation if any, and the output sharpening, as well as other parameters. I use Optimum or Optimum Spaced, and my images come up 2 to a page, and can be seen in the preview.
In addition, Qimage is directed by my choice to the folder I use for images I might want to print, with the sort-order set for the most recently worked on images to be the first thumbnails in the window. There is never any question of which images I want to print.
Qimage also has a very accurate softproof for last minute checking of color, and many other features that make it my choice over Photoshop for printing. The layout choices, I think, not only beat Photoshop's in terms of ease of use, but are equal to a good RIP.
In my years of shooting, processing and printing my images there are only a few programs that I consider indispensable. Photoshop is one, and Qimage is another.
Disclaimer: I do not work for DDISoftware, nor am I related to any of their employees.
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I am using 17" roll in this example.
I suppose neither of you is using the latest driver? Since it does NOT allow you to define 24x17. Just will not happen. It insists on the length being longer than the width. The "workaround" is to specify landscape mode, but for the life of me, I can't figure out a combination of portrait/landscape/auto-rotate in the application's print dialog and in the driver's dialog that will give the desired results.
I guess my advice is not to get the latest driver. Sigh.
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I am using the latest driver and 24" rolls. I have several sizes defined that are "shorter" than the width of the paper. I have 9x24, 16x24, 18x24, etc. This is on a base 24" Z3100. Windoze XP Pro.
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I am using the latest driver and 24" rolls. I have several sizes defined that are "shorter" than the width of the paper. I have 9x24, 16x24, 18x24, etc. This is on a base 24" Z3100. Windoze XP Pro.
Ron, please bear with me. Lets use the convention WxH, so is your 9x24 9" wide? or is it really 24" wide and 9" high? As others people have also mentioned, you cannot define 24" wide and something shorted than 24" high in the latest driver. It used to work, but no longer.
Regardless, lets say you have an image 24" wide and 9" high (landscape) and you define a paper size of 9x24. Your paper roll is 24" wide. On your application dialog, you select 9x24" paper. Do you select portrait or landscape mode?
And what do you select in the Printer dialog box? Obviously you still select 9x24 paper, but portrait or landscape? Autorotate or no?
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Ron, please bear with me. Lets use the convention WxH, so is your 9x24 9" wide? or is it really 24" wide and 9" high? As others people have also mentioned, you cannot define 24" wide and something shorted than 24" high in the latest driver. It used to work, but no longer.
Regardless, lets say you have an image 24" wide and 9" high (landscape) and you define a paper size of 9x24. Your paper roll is 24" wide. On your application dialog, you select 9x24" paper. Do you select portrait or landscape mode?
And what do you select in the Printer dialog box? Obviously you still select 9x24 paper, but portrait or landscape? Autorotate or no?
In my printer driver I defined a custom paper as 24Wx17H. The driver then informs me that it is switching the dimensions. I then enter Landscape for orientation, and AutoRotate in the Features tab. In Qimage I have landscape selected. It works every time. As a double check I have the HP driver show the print preview before printing, just in case. I am using the latest Z3100 driver.
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Here's what it looks like for me when I'm printing.
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Ron, please bear with me. Lets use the convention WxH, so is your 9x24 9" wide? or is it really 24" wide and 9" high? As others people have also mentioned, you cannot define 24" wide and something shorted than 24" high in the latest driver. It used to work, but no longer.
Regardless, lets say you have an image 24" wide and 9" high (landscape) and you define a paper size of 9x24. Your paper roll is 24" wide. On your application dialog, you select 9x24" paper. Do you select portrait or landscape mode?
And what do you select in the Printer dialog box? Obviously you still select 9x24 paper, but portrait or landscape? Autorotate or no?
One of the confusing things about plotters (and the Z3100 is classified by HP as a plotter) is the X-axis is the direction of paper feed. What that means is that the printer thinks the "width" of the print is the direction of paper feed, and the "height" is the direction across the front. But this is confusing because we refer to a 24" roll of paper as being 24" wide. And the driver looks at the paper as 24"wide. This problem goes back to the early DesignJets, which started off as CAD plotters. A 24" x 36" sheet was considered 36" wide, and HP made the plotter 24" across to fit that sheet. So in some places, the plotter (and paper) are 24" wide, and in other places the image is 24" high.
So the confusion depends on whether you are talking about hardware (paper, printer) or image (print size). That is why the driver has that little picture showing how your image will print off the roll. I let the driver swap the dimensions if it want's and have auto-rotate on.
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I am using 17" roll in this example.
I suppose neither of you is using the latest driver? Since it does NOT allow you to define 24x17. Just will not happen. It insists on the length being longer than the width. The "workaround" is to specify landscape mode, but for the life of me, I can't figure out a combination of portrait/landscape/auto-rotate in the application's print dialog and in the driver's dialog that will give the desired results.
I guess my advice is not to get the latest driver. Sigh.
Firstly, what "latest driver"? What driver revision are you using?
About the length being longer than the width - Yes it will allow it - It will warn you that it doesn't allow it, but that's just that, a warning.
If you go to Custom size:
If you enter in say 17" width and 8" length, and hit Save, it will warn you about length being shorter than width and to Click OK if you want to 'correct' it.
DON'T click OK, click Save again, it will warn you again, then click 'Cancel'
Exit out of the print driver windows, completely, go back in and you will find your custom 17"W x 8"L paper size in the drop down list.
OK, this works on the driver I am using, but I am not sure about any latest ones or whatever. Give it a go however?
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Thanks for all the hints so far, but no go. BTW, I just want to say that my dayjob is a compiler writer since 1984, so it's not that I am totally n00b when it comes to software, OS, computer etc.
The driver version for HPI31003.GPD is 61.73.361.41
Here are some images to demonstrate what I mean: this is the Photoshop Print dialog. The paper selected is 17x8 (8" width, 17" high. as per the driver's restriction - another BTW, there is no mistake that the HP driver refers as width is the width of the roll, since it's restricted from 3.x" to 24"). The mode selected is landscape. The little Photoshop preview box is exactly how I want it to print:
(http://www.dragonsgate.net/pub/richard/PICS/pshop.jpg)
Then I click on the "Print" button to bring up the HP driver dialog. You can see that the dimension of the paper is set correctly.
(http://www.dragonsgate.net/pub/richard/PICS/hp1.jpg)
Next I click on the Features tab, and you can see that I select Show Preview, Remove Blank Areas..., Autorotate, and Landscape mode.
(http://www.dragonsgate.net/pub/richard/PICS/hp2.jpg)
The Preview looks like this:
(http://www.dragonsgate.net/pub/richard/PICS/preview.jpg)
What comes out is a 8"x17" image :-(, wasting a lot of space on the roll paper.
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If I de-select autorotate, it just prints the "bottom" of the image first (i.e. a 180 degree flip).
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If I change either of the PShop or HP mode to portrait, it just prints out a horizontal strip in the middle of the 8x17 page :-(
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Please does anyone know how to print using this driver without wasting paper.
Thanks.
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Please does anyone know how to print using this driver without wasting paper.
Thanks.
It doesn't solve the Photoshop/driver issue but like the others have written using Qimage + the driver solves more than just this problem.
Get the demo, the cheap price for a license will not be an obstacle either.
www.ddisoftware.com
Ernst Dinkla
Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
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It doesn't solve the Photoshop/driver issue but like the others have written using Qimage + the driver solves more than just this problem.
Get the demo, the cheap price for a license will not be an obstacle either.
www.ddisoftware.com
Ernst Dinkla
Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
I would guess that most people who have given themselves time to become familiar with Qimage rarely go back to printing from Photoshop. You can also re-enter Photoshop or, I presume, Lightroom, from Qimage if you need further processing that can't be provided in Qimage.
For that matter, it is probably possible to name Qimage as a 2nd "editor" from Lightroom, and possibly from the Bridge in Photoshop.
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Thanks for all the hints so far, but no go. BTW, I just want to say that my dayjob is a compiler writer since 1984, so it's not that I am totally n00b when it comes to software, OS, computer etc.
The driver version for HPI31003.GPD is 61.73.361.41
Here are some images to demonstrate what I mean: this is the Photoshop Print dialog. The paper selected is 17x8 (8" width, 17" high. as per the driver's restriction - another BTW, there is no mistake that the HP driver refers as width is the width of the roll, since it's restricted from 3.x" to 24"). The mode selected is landscape. The little Photoshop preview box is exactly how I want it to print:
(http://www.dragonsgate.net/pub/richard/PICS/pshop.jpg)
Then I click on the "Print" button to bring up the HP driver dialog. You can see that the dimension of the paper is set correctly.
(http://www.dragonsgate.net/pub/richard/PICS/hp1.jpg)
Next I click on the Features tab, and you can see that I select Show Preview, Remove Blank Areas..., Autorotate, and Landscape mode.
(http://www.dragonsgate.net/pub/richard/PICS/hp2.jpg)
The Preview looks like this:
(http://www.dragonsgate.net/pub/richard/PICS/preview.jpg)
What comes out is a 8"x17" image :-(, wasting a lot of space on the roll paper.
******************
If I de-select autorotate, it just prints the "bottom" of the image first (i.e. a 180 degree flip).
******************
If I change either of the PShop or HP mode to portrait, it just prints out a horizontal strip in the middle of the 8x17 page :-(
******************
Please does anyone know how to print using this driver without wasting paper.
Thanks.
I've been using the Z3100 44" since it was introduced and I have the latest driver (61.73.361.41), firmware for XP (6.0.0.8) and print from CS4. I also noticed the w x h issue when I installed the new driver and firmware. My solution is:
1) create custom paper size as I always did, w x h. So if I'm printing an 18 x 12 print on 24" wide paper role I have custome size of 24 x 13.
2) if the orientation in printer driver window shows a "vertical" print I simply check the landscape orientation box and see that it now shows a landscape orientation.
3) I DO NOT ENABLE either auto rotate or remove top/bottom blank areas.
With this procedure I get the orientation I see in the print driver and the CS4 window every time. I preferred the old fashion setup which allows the user to control directly the orientation but have learned to "out smart" the computer.
Good Luck.
Richard Galosy
Richard Galosy Photography
Woodland, CA
517-719-1913
rgalosyphoto@aol.com
RichardGalosy.com
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I've been using the Z3100 44" since it was introduced and I have the latest driver (61.73.361.41), firmware for XP (6.0.0.8) and print from CS4. I also noticed the w x h issue when I installed the new driver and firmware. My solution is:
1) create custom paper size as I always did, w x h. So if I'm printing an 18 x 12 print on 24" wide paper role I have custome size of 24 x 13.
2) if the orientation in printer driver window shows a "vertical" print I simply check the landscape orientation box and see that it now shows a landscape orientation.
3) I DO NOT ENABLE either auto rotate or remove top/bottom blank areas.
With this procedure I get the orientation I see in the print driver and the CS4 window every time. I preferred the old fashion setup which allows the user to control directly the orientation but have learned to "out smart" the computer.
Good Luck.
Richard Galosy
Richard Galosy Photography
Woodland, CA
517-719-1913
rgalosyphoto@aol.com
RichardGalosy.com
Yup, did that. In fact, I reinstalled the firmware and driver and it still does not work. I have an email conversation with HP Support now.
My guess is that it's a firmware problem, as I am using the latest 7.00.003. Sigh.
The question isn't buying QImage, sure I can afford that. The question is why should a $$$ printer not being able to print using industry standard applications? I think customers are making it too easy for these companies. When all said and done, I may still end up buying Qimage and all that, but it's just not acceptable for a printer not being able to print things correctly.
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I had wrestled with this problem since I got my 44" seven or eight months ago and finally broke down and got Qimage Pro. Despite that, occasionally I still get the occasional wasted page and just haven't found the time to sit down and document each job properly so I can figure out once and for all what I am doing wrong. I'll be watching this thread like a hawk, though looking for the hint or tip I have somehow missed.
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Your problem - According to what I see on this image:
(http://www.dragonsgate.net/pub/richard/PICS/hp1.jpg)
is the printer thinks the printer has the paper: Roll: Ilford Smooth Gloss, 16.95 inches.
So its not going to print 17" across because it thinks the paper roll is 16.95 inches.
I frequently have this problem and the driver settings are right - and the auto rotate works - WHEN THE PRINTER GETS THE ROLL WIDTH RIGHT!
Thats the problem your having - dont ask me how to get the printer to read the roll correctly - I have this one roll that has been 3 different sizes on 7 different loads.
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I have found a workaround! In fact, it's the one of the two workarounds that I used before, just that my tests were done incorrectly. Let me explain:
One workaround before was to define 17" width x 8" height. However, as mentioned, this doesn't work with the latest driver. Yes, obviously some people get it working with 8x17 and select landscape - somehow -, but it just doesn't work for me.
The other workaround I used was to define 17x17, and 24x24. Then select "Remove blank areas..." This option would make the printer stops after the image is printed (e.g. after 8 inches or so) This still works!!! I did the tests incorrectly: I am using the glossy paper for testing (not going to waste my Japanese washi now :-) ) and the Gloss Optimizer is set to the default ON/Full Page. This used to work using the older firmware/driver, but with the latest combination, this seems to render the "remove the blank areas.." ineffective and the printer would still waste a lot of people at the bottom. Changing GO to Econo does the trick and I assume that it will print fine using the fine arts paper as it does not use GO.
So not too happy that I need to use a workaround, but at least I can print again, after wasting loads of test paper...
I hope this thread will help others, and this and other similar threads would shame HP and their HP engineers to do their jobs right (I worked at HP compiler lab for 5 years, usability issues like this would never have been tolerated).
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Your not reading what I typed because you were typing
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Your problem - According to what I see on this image:
(http://www.dragonsgate.net/pub/richard/PICS/hp1.jpg)
is the printer thinks the printer has the paper: Roll: Ilford Smooth Gloss, 16.95 inches.
So its not going to print 17" across because it thinks the paper roll is 16.95 inches.
I frequently have this problem and the driver settings are right - and the auto rotate works - WHEN THE PRINTER GETS THE ROLL WIDTH RIGHT!
Thats the problem your having - dont ask me how to get the printer to read the roll correctly - I have this one roll that has been 3 different sizes on 7 different loads.
Wow, I have to admit I was a wee bit skeptical, but I tried it by changing the dimension to 8x16.95, and it works!!!!
... and autorotate is not needed.
Thanks!!
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Skeptical? Have faith my good man
Or skeptical that it couldent possibly be that simple.
Actually autorotate WAS working ... and it was just protecting you from your 16.95" roll .... It's a feature
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You both beat me to it, I was going to suggest the same thing (make paper size 16.95). The other thing to do is try to reload paper to see if it recognizes it as 17". This odd size issue happens to me often on sheets I cut myself but not too often on rolls.
- Doug
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You both beat me to it, I was going to suggest the same thing (make paper size 16.95). The other thing to do is try to reload paper to see if it recognizes it as 17". This odd size issue happens to me often on sheets I cut myself but not too often on rolls.
- Doug
One reason for the odd sizes is that the Z3100 likes to maintain fixed margins, and unequal ones, for that matter. In Qimage, you can reset the margins to zero, or whatever you want them to be, and the Z seems to be satisfied.
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My shiny new Z3100 is being trucked towards me as i write this, and I've been reading this thread with interest.
I have a question about Qimage: Does this print Photoshop files (psd) or do they need to be converted to something else first?
I've been putting together a doc to help others when printing in Photoshop to our 130 and the procedures are overly cumbersome, to put it mildly. Qimage might be a simpler solution.
Also Qimage has 3 versions. Is there any reason to get other than the Studio edition?
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Justan,
It does print PSD files but its really recommended to use TIFF files. Even Adobe doesn't like PSD files much anymore. Best practice is to flatten your work to a TIFF and print that.
Qimage Studio has the ability store 100 print sizes and takes advantage of hyperthreading and multi-cores - those alone made it worthwhile for me. Check out the comparisons of versions here. (http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage/editions.htm)
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I have a question about Qimage: Does this print Photoshop files (psd) or do they need to be converted to something else first?
It will do PSD files, as far as I remember. However, I have used Tiffs and Layered Tiffs for the past couple of years, and prefer them. The only thing I know that chokes Qimage is a file with 4 or more channels, which Qimage seems not to understand. On the other hand, I softproof in Photoshop, and include a layer group consisting of the softproof tweaks. What I really like about Qimage is that it will open the file full screen and softproof it, including the tweaked layergroup. When the print emerges from the Z3100 I compare it (under appropriate light) to the softproof on the Qimage screen.
One thing that is essential is to note the paper profile and rendering intent you used in Photoshop for softproofing, and make sure that Qimage is using the same profile and rendering intent.
Qimage Studio also has the best interpolation method of the three versions, although I have been extremely happy with the Hybrid interpolation of the Pro version. Eventually, when the piggybank begins to recover, I will probably upgrade to the Studio version.
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Thanks for this excellent feedback! I’ll put qimage on the short list of things to get.
This site is a fabulous and very interesting resource!!!
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A good reason to use Tiff or JPEG is the recognition of the original image size in the file by Qimage. It doesn't do that with PSD files which can lead to errors if the size was set in Photoshop and Qimage's setting is made to Original Size.
Ernst Dinkla
Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
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I have yet to have Q recognize the image size from a tiff, psd, jpeg, whatever. I just stopped hoping it would. It never recognizes my psd files either. I just put it down to Qimage and windows wierdness.
Bill
A good reason to use Tiff or JPEG is the recognition of the original image size in the file by Qimage. It doesn't do that with PSD files which can lead to errors if the size was set in Photoshop and Qimage's setting is made to Original Size.
Ernst Dinkla
Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
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I have yet to have Q recognize the image size from a tiff, psd, jpeg, whatever. I just stopped hoping it would. It never recognizes my psd files either. I just put it down to Qimage and windows wierdness.
Bill
Bill,
If you go to the menu custom sizes> pop up menu special sizes and switch original size on, you should check at the top right corner whether override original size is switched on. Switch it off.
All of the TIFFs and JPEGs that I export from Photoshop have their original size recognised. The same applies to files from customers, I encourage them to set a size there as it gives less confusion than sending me images with an explanation how large they should be. Setting the size in PS doesn't mean that the images have to be resampled in PS, that can be done better in Qimage.
It could be that TIFFs, JPEGs from other sources do not have the right size descriptions but in my experience they all work with few exceptions.
Ernst Dinkla
Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
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Thanks, Ernst, I will try it. I don't pretend to be a expert in Qimage!
Bill
Bill,
If you go to the menu custom sizes> pop up menu special sizes and switch original size on, you should check at the top right corner whether override original size is switched on. Switch it off.
All of the TIFFs and JPEGs that I export from Photoshop have their original size recognised. The same applies to files from customers, I encourage them to set a size there as it gives less confusion than sending me images with an explanation how large they should be. Setting the size in PS doesn't mean that the images have to be resampled in PS, that can be done better in Qimage.
It could be that TIFFs, JPEGs from other sources do not have the right size descriptions but in my experience they all work with few exceptions.
Ernst Dinkla
Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
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Skeptical? Have faith my good man
Or skeptical that it couldent possibly be that simple.
Actually autorotate WAS working ... and it was just protecting you from your 16.95" roll .... It's a feature
So what are the settings if the roll is 24 inches wide? (23.95 inches).
Param.