Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: William Morse on December 28, 2008, 07:24:18 pm
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Hi Ron-
So maybe now I understand why so many are getting buckling with the HP Baryte now, whereas I saw none of it with the test roll I had last summer. I think the Baryte preset still has way too much ink. I just did a bunch of calibrations, starting with 100% ink load. When I check the patches with the eye-one, I see that at 100%, L values go down for the first 3 patches (the 3rd is the darkest), whereas the first should be the darkest. Even at 80% (the lowest setting!) the 3rd patch is still the lowest (darkest), and here's the kicker, at 80% the 3rd patch is darker than the 3rd 100% patch. So I think this paper needs very little ink; further proof comes from the darkest color patches, which at 80% are about the same density as the 100% patch, but have significantly higher A and B values (saturation).
Meanwhile, I can't find the Baryte preset on the @#$&^%!!! HP website. These people are just so clueless!
Can anyone share with me a new HP Baryte preset, or the download link? Has any one seen this with HP Baryte or any other papers?
Bill
Hmmmm . . . just went to look up what the ink limits were for the Fine Art Pearl (less ink) preset on HP's site. That's when I saw that the HP Barite paper had been added to the bottom of the chart.
The page still lists an August 2007 date at the bottom and November 2007 date at the top, even though the paper came out much more recently than either. I'm not sure when they sneaked it in, but I take back my complaint about that documentation, HP.
As for the ink limits, HP seems to measure them differently than Hahnemuhle. I'm not sure what the measure is for Hahnemuhle, but HP says that theirs is rated as picoliters per 1/600" x 1/600" area. For their scale, they show both the Barite and the Pearl (less ink) at a relatively low ink load of 32. Fine Art Paper >250gsm's preset gets a whopping ink limit of 60 by comparison. I may try the Pearl (more ink) preset, which has an ink limit of 42, for another test with the Hahnemuhle paper to see what happens. I'm sure that it would not work with the HP Barite, as it has has buckling problems for me at a limit of only 32, but the Hahnemuhle PR Baryta is appreciably thicker than HP's version.
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Two weeks ago I got this document from Hahnemühle:
"Hewlett-Packard DJ Z3100 Photo - matte / photo black"
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Hi Ron-
So maybe now I understand why so many are getting buckling with the HP Baryte now, whereas I saw none of it with the test roll I had last summer. I think the Baryte preset still has way too much ink. I just did a bunch of calibrations, starting with 100% ink load. When I check the patches with the eye-one, I see that at 100%, L values go down for the first 3 patches (the 3rd is the darkest), whereas the first should be the darkest. Even at 80% (the lowest setting!) the 3rd patch is still the lowest (darkest), and here's the kicker, at 80% the 3rd patch is darker than the 3rd 100% patch. So I think this paper needs very little ink; further proof comes from the darkest color patches, which at 80% are about the same density as the 100% patch, but have significantly higher A and B values (saturation).
Meanwhile, I can't find the Baryte preset on the @#$&^%!!! HP website. These people are just so clueless!
Can anyone share with me a new HP Baryte preset, or the download link? Has any one seen this with HP Baryte or any other papers?
Bill
It's there on HP's website; you just have to dig a little to find it. The preset was re-jiggered to decrease the inkload after I sent an e-mail on the subject to Ben Wolf; it's much better now, but still a bit prone to cockling in large prints with extensive shadow areas.
Here's where to find the preset: http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/...1805_4000_100__ (http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/main/gap_content.jsp?zn=gap&cp=1-254-292-8115^111805_4000_100__)
-Look under the "HP fine art printing material" entry at the bottom of the list. Click on the plus-sign and a drop down list includes HP Baryte satin in a group of four presets you can download.
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OK, so it's not just HP that's clueless. I meant Z3200, not Z3100! Grrrrrrh! Sorry for the confusion. I am still tracking this down, will report more later today.
Bill
It's there on HP's website; you just have to dig a little to find it. The preset was re-jiggered to decrease the inkload after I sent an e-mail on the subject to Ben Wolf; it's much better now, but still a bit prone to cockling in large prints with extensive shadow areas.
Here's where to find the preset: http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/...1805_4000_100__ (http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/main/gap_content.jsp?zn=gap&cp=1-254-292-8115^111805_4000_100__)
-Look under the "HP fine art printing material" entry at the bottom of the list. Click on the plus-sign and a drop down list includes HP Baryte satin in a group of four presets you can download.
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Here's where to find the preset: http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/...1805_4000_100__ (http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/main/gap_content.jsp?zn=gap&cp=1-254-292-8115^111805_4000_100__)
-Look under the "HP fine art printing material" entry at the bottom of the list. Click on the plus-sign and a drop down list includes HP Baryte satin in a group of four presets you can download.
As is normal on the HP site, the download buttons for the Windows and Mac "HP fine art printing material" preset is non-functional. The other preset downloads seem to work.
Jim
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Yeah, they've got the file name wrong in the link! Try ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software10/C...g_materials.dmg (http://ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software10/COL23351/pl-60663-3/Fine_Art_Printing_materials.dmg) (mac)
HP's website is truly frightening (as in "do I really want to do business with this incompetent company") It really makes me question the wisdom of using the Z's, in spite of the ease of use and great prints. What new surprises are around the corner?
Bill
As is normal on the HP site, the download buttons for the Windows and Mac "HP fine art printing material" preset is non-functional. The other preset downloads seem to work.
Jim
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Yeah, they've got the file name wrong in the link! Try ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software10/C...g_materials.dmg (http://ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software10/COL23351/pl-60663-3/Fine_Art_Printing_materials.dmg) (mac)
HP's website is truly frightening (as in "do I really want to do business with this incompetent company") It really makes me question the wisdom of using the Z's, in spite of the ease of use and great prints. What new surprises are around the corner?
Bill
It's because HP doesnt have the link right. The file is there.
For windows users:
ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software10/COL23354/pl-60665-3/ (http://ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software10/COL23354/pl-60665-3/)
Copy and paste that link into your browser - it will open an FTP window and let you download the paper presets.
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Yes, that's the link for windows. And why is it that HP links are broken as often as they work? I have never seen another company even remotely as bad.
Which is what makes me wonder...
Bill
It's because HP doesnt have the link right. The file is there.
For windows users:
ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software10/COL23354/pl-60665-3/ (http://ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software10/COL23354/pl-60665-3/)
Copy and paste that link into your browser - it will open an FTP window and let you download the paper presets.
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Hi,
I reported the broken links, we will see what happens.
thanks
Gary
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Yea, I'm finding broken links even when trying to find out info about buying an extended warranty. I assume it is the $1,500.00 for 3 years payable before the original warranty expires and I'm running out of time.
I tried some sheets of the HP Baryta and with me it worked dreadfully with any preset, too much gloss differiental.
However, using the HP Baryta media preset from their website with Ilford Gallerie Gold and Hahnemuhle Photorag Baryta I'm getting excellent results all around. Black and white, neutral grayscale and srgb toned, is working great and color is excellent on those media with that HP Baryta media preset.
Hell with the HP paper if it isn't working for you, try the others.
John
Yes, that's the link for windows. And why is it that HP links are broken as often as they work? I have never seen another company even remotely as bad.
Which is what makes me wonder...
Bill
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HI Geoff-
Have you looked at the z3100 lin print with this paper/preset? I'm getting a L value of 15 from the darkest patch! It is way lighter than the lin print from the z3200. Maybe I got a bad batch?
Bill
It's there on HP's website; you just have to dig a little to find it. The preset was re-jiggered to decrease the inkload after I sent an e-mail on the subject to Ben Wolf; it's much better now, but still a bit prone to cockling in large prints with extensive shadow areas.
Here's where to find the preset: http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/...1805_4000_100__ (http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/main/gap_content.jsp?zn=gap&cp=1-254-292-8115^111805_4000_100__)
-Look under the "HP fine art printing material" entry at the bottom of the list. Click on the plus-sign and a drop down list includes HP Baryte satin in a group of four presets you can download.
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Bill and Xanthor,
Thanks for the correct link.
Jim
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Looking at the data sheet of HP Baryte Satin Art Paper it says "Product of Switzerland". Is the paper perhaps manufactured from Ilford Switzerland for HP?
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Looking at the data sheet of HP Baryte Satin Art Paper it says "Product of Switzerland". Is the paper perhaps manufactured from Ilford Switzerland for HP?
It could as well be Sihl:
http://www.sihl.ch/content/default.aspx (http://www.sihl.ch/content/default.aspx)
that also does the coating of several Hahnemühle varieties. Plants in Swiss and Germany.
Ernst Dinkla
Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
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Paper from Sihl could have the "S" sign inside the carton tube.
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HI Geoff-
Have you looked at the z3100 lin print with this paper/preset? I'm getting a L value of 15 from the darkest patch! It is way lighter than the lin print from the z3200. Maybe I got a bad batch?
Bill
Sorry, I can't quite follow the question. Which paper/preset combination do you mean?
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Hi Geoff-
Sorry for the incoherence.
z3100, HP Baryte satin paper, Hp supplied Baryte preset. When I printed the lin print, I almost couldn't believe how light the black patch was.
Bill
Sorry, I can't quite follow the question. Which paper/preset combination do you mean?
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Hi Geoff-
Sorry for the incoherence.
z3100, HP Baryte satin paper, Hp supplied Baryte preset. When I printed the lin print, I almost couldn't believe how light the black patch was.
Bill
Hmmm. Definitely not my experience. I just pulled out the calibration test print, and the black patch looks pretty dark. I was told by the HP color people that the newer HP Baryte satin preset does lay down a lighter inkload to limit the cockling/buckling problem and that this might yield a slightly lighter D-max, but probably not enough to be noticeable.
I do like the color rendition and surface of this paper, but even with the new preset I'm still getting cockling in large prints with lots of shadow area. I'm using what I have left of the roll for higher key prints, and I'm using Hahnemuhle Photo rag pearl & Photo rag baryta instead for future work.
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I have to get a masochistic chuckle from the comments about HP's website. For a technology to take the cake as the worst Fortune 500 website is quite an accomplishment. Please tell me that HP does not offer anything even remotely related to web design as a part of their vast juggernaut.
I appreciate those of you who are willing to take the time to experiment with this paper. For the Ansel Adams Gallery to be using it means that it can perform well under the right circumstances, but I'm happy enough with the Hahnemuhle PR Baryta that I can wait to see if someone solves the cockle/buckle issue. FWIW: no issues with the dMax in my experience with the HP paper, but then again I've been using a heavier inkload.
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BTW, looking at the data sheet of the HP Baryte Satin Art Paper is says "Lightfastness HP Vivera Pigment Ink: Greater than 1.5 years with HP Deisgnjet Z3100 using HP 70 Viveira pigment inks*". That's a quite vague statement for this paper.
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/pscmisc/vac...dfs/3743294.pdf (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/pscmisc/vac/us/product_pdfs/3743294.pdf)
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"Lightfastness HP Vivera Pigment Ink: Greater than 1.5 years with HP Deisgnjet Z3100 using HP 70 Viveira pigment inks*".
At least HP marketing is as on the ball as their website team
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BTW, looking at the data sheet of the HP Baryte Satin Art Paper is says "Lightfastness HP Vivera Pigment Ink: Greater than 1.5 years with HP Deisgnjet Z3100 using HP 70 Viveira pigment inks*". That's a quite vague statement for this paper.
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/pscmisc/vac...dfs/3743294.pdf (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/pscmisc/vac/us/product_pdfs/3743294.pdf)
Another HP doc says more than 180 years, HP numbers not yet Wilhelm:
http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/...5083_4000_100__ (http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/main/gap_content.jsp?zn=gap&cp=1-254-257-323^25083_4000_100__)
you have to click on the + Z3100 lines at the bottom.
HP Baryte Satin Art Paper 180+ years HP internal testing
Could it be that the 1.5 years is for the Vivera dye instead?
Ernst Dinkla
Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
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I've been printing on this paper recently. It still cockles badly, leaves a haze over the surface, has a bad transition of shadow to highlight, a weak DMax after profiled, a lot less dynamic than Hahnemuhle PhotoRag Baryta, a lot less than the Epson 9900 and Epson Tradition. The 9180 set to Pro Satin and Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta walks circles around it, has a much nicer surface, really sings.
I haven't tried playing with the ink settings yet though, but have made profiles with both APS and Color Center. It would take a bit of testing and maybe better results could be had.