Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Ryan Grayley on November 28, 2008, 08:16:24 am

Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Ryan Grayley on November 28, 2008, 08:16:24 am
Today I switched on my Epson Stylus Pro 7900 and waited patiently for about 15 minutes or so for a cleaning cycle to finish.

THe LCD then displayed the message,
"Automatic Head Cleaning Failed. Retry? Yes No"

So I selected Yes and after another 15 minutes or so the LCD displayed the message.
"Automatic Head Cleaning Failed. Retry? Yes No"

I then checked the manual and it suggested turning the printer off and on which I did and after another 15 minutes or so the LCD displayed the message.
"Automatic Head Cleaning Failed. Retry? Yes No"

And two of my inks are now showing low status.

So I selected No and ran a nozzle test pattern. Using a loupe I couldn't find a single missing nozzle.

I have reported this to Epson UK and they said this is the first time they have heard of this. They promised to call me back within an hour.

Are there any early adopters who have also seen this behaviour?

Thanks,

Ryan

Update1: As it is possible to disable the Automatic Head Cleaning, I have now turned it off. This should save a lot of time and ink and I always print a nozzle test pattern before running a customer print job anyway.


Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: eudemian on November 28, 2008, 12:48:10 pm
I have had this happen once, it frightened the life out of me and I thought why do I jump in as an early adopter.  
So far no repeat of the problem, though I keep the printer on all the time. I do hope we are not seeing a problem in its early phase, we need to keep Epson apprised of this information.
Lovely printer, lovely prints don't you think Ryan?

Regards
Tom
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: JimGoshorn on November 28, 2008, 05:24:15 pm
I downloaded the user manual and it seems to indicate that letting the printer do an auto cleaning means it will use all the inks in the process just like the earlier models vs. a manual cleaning which allows you to just use two inks at a time. Was hoping that the auto cleaning function would work by the channel but it doesn't look that way  
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on January 06, 2009, 11:23:19 pm
My 7900 isn't used much yet, but after today my experience is similar to these.  If I use auto nozzle check, it almost always fails, and requires one or two cleaning cycles. Today it failed even after two cleaning cycles.  A manual nozzle pattern appeared perfect.

The past couple of weeks, I have printed a nozzle pattern, and despite appearing perfect even under a loop, if I then enable auto nozzle detection and send the printer a print, it will clean.  This has happened on 5 occasions.

At this point I have consumed nearly all of the ink in the starter cartridges (3 have been replaced, the rest are below 5%), and my maintainance tank only has 13% capacity left in it, and only printed a few prints... 1 24x30 and a handful of 17x22.

I called Epson Preferred help today, the tech agreed that this is too much ink consumption and didn't feel it was normal.  They had me do one service check which showed the AID (auto ink detection) unit was OK.  He said a tech would call tomorrow to schedule a visit on Thursday.

So currently I am not using this feature and am quite happy with the output.  I'll report back after they look at the machine.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on January 06, 2009, 11:27:40 pm
Quote from: JimGoshorn
I downloaded the user manual and it seems to indicate that letting the printer do an auto cleaning means it will use all the inks in the process just like the earlier models vs. a manual cleaning which allows you to just use two inks at a time. Was hoping that the auto cleaning function would work by the channel but it doesn't look that way  

seems right ... all my inks are going down at the same time from all of the auto nozzle clean cycles that have been triggered.  Too bad ... perhaps a firmware update will make this more efficient.  Seems like it should be possible.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: awsstudios on January 07, 2009, 12:31:00 pm
Quote from: Ionaca
Today I switched on my Epson Stylus Pro 7900 and waited patiently for about 15 minutes or so for a cleaning cycle to finish.

THe LCD then displayed the message,
"Automatic Head Cleaning Failed. Retry? Yes No"

So I selected Yes and after another 15 minutes or so the LCD displayed the message.
"Automatic Head Cleaning Failed. Retry? Yes No"

I then checked the manual and it suggested turning the printer off and on which I did and after another 15 minutes or so the LCD displayed the message.
"Automatic Head Cleaning Failed. Retry? Yes No"

And two of my inks are now showing low status.

So I selected No and ran a nozzle test pattern. Using a loupe I couldn't find a single missing nozzle.

I have reported this to Epson UK and they said this is the first time they have heard of this. They promised to call me back within an hour.

Are there any early adopters who have also seen this behaviour?

Thanks,

Ryan

Update1: As it is possible to disable the Automatic Head Cleaning, I have now turned it off. This should save a lot of time and ink and I always print a nozzle test pattern before running a customer print job anyway.

I had the same thing happen.
i fired up the printer a couple of days ago and i printed several prints. decided to leave the printer on overnight.
sent a job to the printer the next morning and the auto cleaning cycle started. after 5 minutes i tried to figure out how to stop it. but no luck, unless i wanted to turn off the printer. 15-20 minutes later the same message as you got popped up and said it failed. i clicked no, do not try again. i then printed out a test pattern, and all the nozzles where clear. so i turned off auto cleaning and now i just print a test pattern every once in a while. i am glad to see this post on it. P.S. i only noticed the yellow and light light black ink got lower with the auto nozzle cleaning on my unit. which corresponds to the set LLB/Y if i where to just clean per channel. i have not read in the book about the auto cleaning, but mine does not show that all inks went down.
-andrew
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: stevegoldenberg on January 07, 2009, 01:38:44 pm
Quote from: awsstudios
I had the same thing happen.
i fired up the printer a couple of days ago and i printed several prints. decided to leave the printer on overnight.
sent a job to the printer the next morning and the auto cleaning cycle started. after 5 minutes i tried to figure out how to stop it. but no luck, unless i wanted to turn off the printer. 15-20 minutes later the same message as you got popped up and said it failed. i clicked no, do not try again. i then printed out a test pattern, and all the nozzles where clear. so i turned off auto cleaning and now i just print a test pattern every once in a while. i am glad to see this post on it. P.S. i only noticed the yellow and light light black ink got lower with the auto nozzle cleaning on my unit. which corresponds to the set LLB/Y if i where to just clean per channel. i have not read in the book about the auto cleaning, but mine does not show that all inks went down.
-andrew


So it sounds like the 7900 reports the need to clean even when that might not be true. Do you see any print quality problems with prints when auto-cleaning is turned off?
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on January 07, 2009, 03:03:25 pm
Quote from: goldmember
So it sounds like the 7900 reports the need to clean even when that might not be true. Do you see any print quality problems with prints when auto-cleaning is turned off?


For me, none.  Output is fantastic.  As mentioned, manual nozzle check shows no nozzles clogged using a loupe before I print.

I suppose it is possible that 1 or 2 nozzles out of the 3600 are not firing, and the AID unit detects this.  That would be so small it may be difficult to detect using a loupe.

It seems the concept is good, and I haven't had this much problem with my 11880, although now I suspect this problem has bitten me a couple of times with it as well.  Perhaps the implementation needs reworked ... certainly it should only be cleaning channels with a clog.  That alone would help.

Anyway, I'm not sure at this point I'll ever enable it again.  The manual system works very well, I'm used to it, and considering how much ink I've dumped, I'd rather be able to manually clean only channels with a problem.  I'll see what they find when the tech shows up.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Michael_T on January 07, 2009, 03:33:39 pm
FWIW, my 7800 did the same kind of thing when I first got it. The Auto Nozzle Check always came up with a problem, and then after a cleaning, a different head would be clogged, time after time. I decided the Auto Nozzle check was worthless, and turned it off.

Like in your posts, manual nozzle checks are usually fine, and print quality is excellent. By the way, it has always been with this printer that cleanings often clear one nozzle, only to clog another. This is probably why it will do auto cleans till it drains you dry. I suspect some of these 'clogs' are quite transient, perhaps a micro-bubble or something caused by the cleaning.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: mrkahn on January 07, 2009, 09:43:10 pm
I just finished a nozzle check and 3 of the inks were clogged, one of them significantly.  I cleaned 2 heads and it seems OK now but this take me back to my 4800 days where it always clogged in the winter.  Frankly, I don't see where they fixed this long standing problem.

Regards,
Malcolm
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: stevegoldenberg on January 08, 2009, 10:38:07 am
Quote from: mrkahn
I just finished a nozzle check and 3 of the inks were clogged, one of them significantly.  I cleaned 2 heads and it seems OK now but this take me back to my 4800 days where it always clogged in the winter.  Frankly, I don't see where they fixed this long standing problem.

Regards,
Malcolm


Malcolm, I don't really understand. This is a 7900 you're using, right? You had three nozzles clogged and you cleaned two of them and now it is ok?
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on January 08, 2009, 03:06:29 pm
Quote from: goldmember
Malcolm, I don't really understand. This is a 7900 you're using, right? You had three nozzles clogged and you cleaned two of them and now it is ok?

Perhaps he meant he cleaned 2 channels, which actually clears 4 sets of nozzles.

I received a phone call from Epson today, my tech is in training for the 7900, and after some discussion where I indicated that urgency isn't really critical because my output is fine and the problematic feature is disabled, we settled on Monday.  I arrived at work, and found a box from Epson of several parts including circuit boards, wiper assembly as well as a new print head (according to the packing list) ... seems quite proactive and not typical of a company to send possible defective parts ahead of the tech visit, instead of the normal procedure of the tech arriving, and the circus of order part, come back replace, not fixed, order another part, come back, replace ... (that's what happens most of the time with our Noritsu printers).
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: mrkahn on January 09, 2009, 04:34:38 pm
Wayne is correct, I had 3 colors clog and cleaned them 2 x 2.  I just checked the printer today and everything seems to be ok.  By the way, the printer is a 9900.

Malcolm
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on January 09, 2009, 09:02:53 pm
Started up my 7900 today, 5 colors were over 50% clogged using a manual test. Had to replace all of the remaining inks except MK , so other than MK (which I haven't used) all my 110 starter cartridges are now consumed,.  I then cleaned a single channel that had 2 of the clogged colors.  After this the printer showed 2% of the ink was consumed in all of the new cartridges (1 was in the channel I cleaned, the rest were not).  Printed another nozzle check and I was surprised to find all nozzles were clear ... perfect test, despite not cleaning 3 of the colors.

This seems odd, but really can't draw any more conclusions than that.  I noticed one of the parts waiting for the tech on Monday is a wiper assembly ... which if defective I believe could cause odd symptoms like I've been seeing.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: AlanG on January 09, 2009, 09:18:29 pm
This may not apply to the 7900, but I own a 7600. It sometimes sat unused for fairly long periods of time and thus it would very often have clogged nozzles when I wanted to print.   I read a tip somewhere to occasionally put a little Windex on the pad that the head parks onto. I do that about once a week and haven't had a single clog since.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: stevegoldenberg on January 10, 2009, 06:08:40 pm
Quote from: Wayne Fox
Started up my 7900 today, 5 colors were over 50% clogged using a manual test. Had to replace all of the remaining inks except MK , so other than MK (which I haven't used) all my 110 starter cartridges are now consumed,.  I then cleaned a single channel that had 2 of the clogged colors.  After this the printer showed 2% of the ink was consumed in all of the new cartridges (1 was in the channel I cleaned, the rest were not).  Printed another nozzle check and I was surprised to find all nozzles were clear ... perfect test, despite not cleaning 3 of the colors.

This seems odd, but really can't draw any more conclusions than that.  I noticed one of the parts waiting for the tech on Monday is a wiper assembly ... which if defective I believe could cause odd symptoms like I've been seeing.


That certainly does seem like odd behavior Wayne. Please post the results from the tech visit - I hope it's a one-time fix for you.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: jbm007 on January 12, 2009, 11:15:39 pm
Quote from: goldmember
That certainly does seem like odd behavior Wayne. Please post the results from the tech visit - I hope it's a one-time fix for you.


Have not used the machine in a week.  Machine has been left on. Just ran a nozzle check and I had 100% clean print pattern from a nozzle check.

Not one missing ink dot. Checked it with a magnifing glass. Don't trust these old eyes anymore.

Jim
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on January 13, 2009, 06:06:14 am
The tech showed up today, and the AID board showed OK for the first test, then failed for the second. This can cause intermittent and unnecessary head cleanings due to a fault reading of the Auto Ink Detector.

  He replaced the wiper assembly and the AID board, gave me a new maintenance cartridge and said he would get me a set of starter cartridges to replace the ink I've lost.  He's going to check on another board that may be an issue, and will call me wednesday.  He agreed that I shouldn't see clogged nozzles every time I started the machine ... but said sometimes they aren't from a clog but can be from a faulty pressure system.  No clog, just no ink at the nozzle.  This could possibly explain my previous post where several clogged channels cleared even though I didn't clean them.  He's going to research that more, and promised to replace the pump and head assembly if I continue to see nozzle issues each time I start the machine.

Very helpful and very interested in making the printer right for me.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: stevegoldenberg on January 13, 2009, 09:29:04 pm
Quote from: Wayne Fox
The tech showed up today, and the AID board showed OK for the first test, then failed for the second. This can cause intermittent and unnecessary head cleanings due to a fault reading of the Auto Ink Detector.

  He replaced the wiper assembly and the AID board, gave me a new maintenance cartridge and said he would get me a set of starter cartridges to replace the ink I've lost.  He's going to check on another board that may be an issue, and will call me wednesday.  He agreed that I shouldn't see clogged nozzles every time I started the machine ... but said sometimes they aren't from a clog but can be from a faulty pressure system.  No clog, just no ink at the nozzle.  This could possibly explain my previous post where several clogged channels cleared even though I didn't clean them.  He's going to research that more, and promised to replace the pump and head assembly if I continue to see nozzle issues each time I start the machine.

Very helpful and very interested in making the printer right for me.

That's great news Wayne.  

I've heard that the humidity where the printer lives has a huge impact on clogs - what's your climate like where you have the printer?
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Ernst Dinkla on January 14, 2009, 03:55:51 am
Quote from: Wayne Fox
The tech showed up today, and the AID board showed OK for the first test, then failed for the second. This can cause intermittent and unnecessary head cleanings due to a fault reading of the Auto Ink Detector.

  He replaced the wiper assembly and the AID board, gave me a new maintenance cartridge and said he would get me a set of starter cartridges to replace the ink I've lost.  He's going to check on another board that may be an issue, and will call me wednesday.  He agreed that I shouldn't see clogged nozzles every time I started the machine ... but said sometimes they aren't from a clog but can be from a faulty pressure system.  No clog, just no ink at the nozzle.  This could possibly explain my previous post where several clogged channels cleared even though I didn't clean them.  He's going to research that more, and promised to replace the pump and head assembly if I continue to see nozzle issues each time I start the machine.

Very helpful and very interested in making the printer right for me.

One cart that has an air leaking membrane can already cause lower pressure. Replacing air pump etc may not solve that issue while a new cart could.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on January 14, 2009, 05:00:26 pm
An update.  As far as weather, I live in Utah, which indoors during the winter is about as dry as it can get.  My 11880 has been virtually clog free, despite the climate.

After the tech left on Monday, each day I have started the printer and printed a nozzle check - no clogs either day.  I also have the printer set to do the Auto Nozzle Detect each time I send a print, as well as printing a nozzle check pattern on each print.

Since the repair on Monday, I have had no clogs, and the unit has not triggered a cleaning cycle from the auto nozzle detect function.

It appears that the defective board and possible defective wiper assembly has resolved my problems.  If anything changes I'll update everyone.  In the meantime, if I could now resolve my i1 Pro and i1i0 table issues so I could get some really good profiles I'd be really happy.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: stevegoldenberg on January 15, 2009, 05:18:31 pm
Quote from: Wayne Fox
An update.  As far as weather, I live in Utah, which indoors during the winter is about as dry as it can get.  My 11880 has been virtually clog free, despite the climate.

After the tech left on Monday, each day I have started the printer and printed a nozzle check - no clogs either day.  I also have the printer set to do the Auto Nozzle Detect each time I send a print, as well as printing a nozzle check pattern on each print.

Since the repair on Monday, I have had no clogs, and the unit has not triggered a cleaning cycle from the auto nozzle detect function.

It appears that the defective board and possible defective wiper assembly has resolved my problems.  If anything changes I'll update everyone.  In the meantime, if I could now resolve my i1 Pro and i1i0 table issues so I could get some really good profiles I'd be really happy.

Thanks so much for the updates Wayne.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: tony wyeth on January 18, 2009, 11:44:54 am
I would like to start by thanking Ionaca for starting this post and Wayne for his detailed contributions, because untill i sent a link of this post to the UK TeckSupport i was told there were no reports of this sort of problem. This did not help my blood pressure having just dumped £200 worth of ink down the pan. The waste tank went from 44% left to 24%. So i thought i should report my problems.
I live in the UK at Cowes on the Isle of Wight and print for pro Yatching photographers and other artists, wonderful prints from this printer.
I bought my 9900 late Nov.2008.When i installed the inks it reported Auto Head Cleaning failed,but from my other Epsons i had learnt never to ask for another head clean, wastes ink,just do a nozzle check. I did leave the Auto Nozzle Check to On-periodically, and seemed OK, but i did leave the printer switched on all the time after having switched it off once and seeing it do a large clean.
Last Thursday after doing some printing, i switched the printer off and on and it went into a cleaning cycle and reported Auto Cleaning Failed. Selected No but it had already dumped ink equal to 20% volume of waste tank. There have been no problems with print quality.
I have now been told that the problem has been moved to Level 2 by Teck Support, whatever that means, and i wait to hear from them.

Update 18.1.09; I did a print yesterday evening 2315, all OK, clean nozzle check,good print.This morning i did a nozzle check for interest and found 9 of the colours had nozzels blocked.What might be significant was that all but 1 of the blocks were the bottom 2 lines? Not good news.
This is just why i bought this printer to avoid blocks and ink waste!



Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on January 27, 2009, 11:14:35 pm
It's been about 2 weeks since the tech was here to repair my 7900. I have had Auto Nozzle Detect set to check  with each print, as well as print a nozzle check pattern with each print, to try and verify the repair actually fixed the problem.

The printer is turned off each night, and the following morning I start the printer and print a nozzle pattern.  About every 3 or 4 days, I find there is an issue with the pattern.  (My 11880 has this happen every 3 or 4 months).  The auto nozzle detect feature picks up the error and initiates a cleaning cycle.  This means the printer is requiring a cleaning cycle at least 2 or 3 times a week ... far more often than I would expect.

Today I forgot to print the nozzle check pattern, and just went to print out my first print.  The AID unit (Auto Ink Detection) triggered a cleaning cycle, so I assumed there was a clog/nozzle problem.  It apparently failed again, so it triggered a second cleaning cycle.  At that point the printer stopped and said the nozzle cleaning failed, would I like to try again.  I said no, and immediately printed a nozzle pattern ... which was perfect (under a loupe).

So while my problems are better, the printer is not performing as it should ... far too many cleanings, and still insisting on cleaning when it appears to be fine.

A quick call to Epson, and the service tech will be in tomorrow.  They are now thinking the head may not be capping tightly enough or that the pump unit may not be supplying adequate pressure to the inks (possible it actually isn't a clog, just the ink isn't getting through well enough).




Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: hilljf on January 29, 2009, 12:57:17 pm
I have an epson 9900 and have had the behavior describe early in the thread occur several times.   After initiating a selective cleaning the printer would report that the cleaning had failed but, when I do a manual check it shows no issues.  I also did a manual test, it showed a few of the colors over 50% missing.   I did a selective clean on one of the colors. the printer reported a failure, but when I did a manual check all colors were now printing fine including the ones I had not done a selective cleaning on.   A lot of my ink has been consumed in the process and I am dissappointed that this function is not working as it should.   I am following this thread with interest as I still need to call Epson, to see what they say.

I wish this printer would do what My HP Z3100 does which is turn on every so often, spit out a little ink to keep its head clean and then go to sleep again.   I almost never have head clog issues that machine and was hoping Epson would have taken the cue regarding allowing the printer to have a firmware routine which keeps itself clear without using a lot of ink.

John
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on January 29, 2009, 05:55:53 pm
Quote from: hilljf
on, to see what they say.

I wish this printer would do what My HP Z3100 does which is turn on every so often, spit out a little ink to keep its head clean and then go to sleep again.   I almost never have head clog issues that machine and was hoping Epson would have taken the cue regarding allowing the printer to have a firmware routine which keeps itself clear without using a lot of ink.

John

I wish this machine did what my 11880 does, and run virtually clog free.  The auto nozzle detect on that machine has not been an issue, nor have clogs.

Currently I am at 63% on my second maintenance cartridge, as compared to my 11880 (now about 15 months old) at 40% remaining of it's first one.  The other 2 on the 11880 are at 100% still.  So a lot of ink has gone into cleaning.  My 7900 has consumed @960ml of ink since it was installed (not counting the ink required for the initial priming), and I've only printed 95 pages. As mentioned (in this thread or another one), the LK alone has required over 100ml of ink.  I don't know how big a page is, but by rough  calculations based on the prints I've done, and examining the job file which shows ink consumption by job, it appears it takes around 1 to 1.2 ml/square foot.   which means perhaps as much as 900 ml of that ink is in the maintenance cartridge and not on a piece of paper.

From my perspective though Epson service has been very responsive, including sending me (well, most of it's back ordered) a full set of 150ml cartridges, which means so far I'm not out any ink personally.

Yesterday the tech arrived and replaced the pump/capping assembly. Remaining ink levels were all at the same% after the repair, so that took very little, if any, ink.

  Unfortunately when I turned the machine on this morning a nozzle check (on luster paper examined with a loop) appeared pristine ... certainly good enough to print with, yet when I sent the first job to the printer the Auto Nozzle Detect triggered a cleaning cycle.  Another call to the tech and to Epson.

I"m not sure what they are going to try this time, but it did sound like the tech on the phone was going to escalate this a little.  I mentioned that at least some others are having problems, and that perhaps it is even more widespread than they realize, because many are just disabling the feature so they don't know if it works or not.

If you are having issues it would help everyone to make the call.  As I mentioned Epson USA has been terrific so far.  If it is a widespread problem (not saying it is, but seems to be quite a few are having it), they will only know that if it gets reported.

Unlike many companies where tech support always tries to blame user error first, I have had nothing like that ... just agreement that something isn't right and needs to be fixed ASAP.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on February 09, 2009, 05:40:57 pm
guess it's time to update this.  Not sure how much interest there is but for the sake of keeping this in the same thread  I'll post the current status for those that may be having similar problems.

Last Wednesday my 7900 was serviced for the 3rd time.  Each previous visit appeared to resolve the problem for a few days, only to see it return.  The problem was two fold.  First, the Auto Nozzle Detect system would trigger cleaning cycles, despite a perfect nozzle check printed immediately before (this takes a lot of ink because it cleans every color, not just the ones affected).  Second, about every 2 or 3 days when powering the machine up, 2 to 4 colors would show a significant number (30 to 50%) of clogged nozzles .. something that I've never seen with my 11880 even after being off for a month or so.  Overall ink consumption has been off the chart (over 1200ml of ink consumed with only 105 pages printed).

This time he spend about 6 hours or more working on the machine.  Previous visits saw the replacement of the AID board, the head cap assembly, and the wiping assembly.  This visit he tried swapping out the main board (which didn't work so he put the previous main board back in).  He had a special "jig" sent which is used to adjust the spacing on the AID (auto ink detect) board, and did confirm to me that it needed adjusted.  He also replaced the head.  The printer worked great on Friday afternoon, and today it showed no clogs when powered up and so far the Auto Nozzle Check has not detected any clogs, so no wasted ink in cleaning cycles.

I have my fingers crossed.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Ryan Grayley on February 09, 2009, 06:31:49 pm
Quote from: Wayne Fox
He had a special "jig" sent which is used to adjust the spacing on the AID (auto ink detect) board, and did confirm to me that it needed adjusted.

Thanks for your update Wayne. Co-incidentally I have at last something new to feed back to this thread.

Having reported my problem on the 28th November and again on the 3rd of December, I was eventually contacted by Epson UK a few days ago (February). As a result I had an engineer visit today and amongst other tests he also checked the spacing with the special 'jig'. Anyway everything was within specification. The firmware was reverted to a earlier level for the time being and I have been instructed to contact the engineer directly if the AID problems recur. The next step may involve parts being replaced.

Cheers,

Ryan
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Marc M on February 10, 2009, 10:10:58 pm
Hello all, thanks for all your post thus far.  Very helpful info and good to know we are not alone experiencing some growing pains of this new device.
First off, I am in Canada and have had the 9900 since Dec 31.  I finally set it up and started printing about the first week into Jan (after the holidays).  Set-up was pain free and printing was incredible at first.  A few things I noticed, lots of cleaning cycles, at least one a day, sometimes a few times while the printer was resting between prints.  I have not printed heavily with this thing so I am quite disappointed with how often it was cleaning, so I disabled the auto cleaning in the control panel and still noticed it was cleaning or showing some nozzle clogs.  This is far too much considering this thing is supposed to be less prone to clogs and use less inks to change btwn Mk and PK. The xx80 series was an improvement and this generation is supposed to be further improved.  This is yet to be the case from what a lot of owners are experiencing.

So after noticing that the light black was down to about 5% and the rest of the carts are showing  btwn 40 and 50% (still with the starter carts) I decided to call Epson preferred service to inquire as to why this was and was this normal and at first did not find the CS rep very helpful and kept saying this is not unusual, lets keep monitoring your problems and build up a history.  I pointed out the fact that I was not alone experiencing this low light black and frequent cleanings and he kept saying you can't apply situations on the forums to yours.  Let's keep monitoring (in other words, do lots of cleaning cycles wasting ink at my expense) and eventually if it does not improve we can send a tech out.  He also said that the light black shares a line to the print head with the MK or Pk and that when you change the black ink, the light black also gets flushed.  So now instead of having just the one ink that flushes we have 2 (light black and either Mk or Pk).  I guess that is an improvement over all the inks being flushed and less wasteful, but I don't get why they could not have designed this better.  Other manufacturers are able to do it.
Anyways, back to the Cs rep who was not helpful initially.  It was not until I asked to speak to another Cs rep or a supervisor that I eventually got them to send a tech out to look at it.  They said that parts would be sent out first, before the tech.
When briefly speaking to the tech who is coming this Friday, he mentionned that unlike the 11880 and even the 9880 which have three and two pressure pumps respectively, the 9900 only has one.  So it could well be that some nozzles are not pressurized enough and causing the nozzle tests to be not all 100% on certain colors giving the printer the impression that there is a clog in those colors.

On another note, I have since spoken to another CS rep and the treatment has been nothing but first rate.  They have decided to send a light black cart after discovering that the tech who will be coming said he needed another light black cart to perform the repairs (5% would not be enough) and he could not have his regular supply chain (in Canada) provide him with a replacement.
Apparently Epson Canada does not seem to be that organized because I can't even get the ink cart from the vendor who sold me the printer cause they don't know when Epson will send them stock.
Or maybe it is just that the light black is very hard to find at the moment?

I will update after the tech has visited.

Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: mrkahn on February 10, 2009, 11:08:58 pm
Just an update on my continuing problems with my 9900.  I have called Epson 3 times and they are finally responding to my 2 times per week nozzle clogging problem.  They are sending parts and a tech after that.  Seems that the printer head is not sealing after printing.  I'll keep you posted on how things proceed.  I also understand that there is another firmware upgrade coming to deal with an overly sensitive head check sensor.

Regards,
Malcolm
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: stevegoldenberg on February 11, 2009, 02:46:32 pm
Quote from: mrkahn
Just an update on my continuing problems with my 9900.  I have called Epson 3 times and they are finally responding to my 2 times per week nozzle clogging problem.  They are sending parts and a tech after that.  Seems that the printer head is not sealing after printing.  I'll keep you posted on how things proceed.  I also understand that there is another firmware upgrade coming to deal with an overly sensitive head check sensor.

Regards,
Malcolm

Wow - seems like most of these printers have the same clogging problems.  Is there anyone who has these that work WITHOUT clogging problems?

Clogging is why my 4800 is sitting idle on my desk so this isn't looking good for Epson so far.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on February 12, 2009, 05:04:44 pm
Quote from: Wayne Fox
First, the Auto Nozzle Detect system would trigger cleaning cycles, despite a perfect nozzle check printed immediately before (this takes a lot of ink because it cleans every color, not just the ones affected).

Quoting myself here because this may be incorrect. I have not found anyone that can officially answer this question, but after my experience today it appears if only 1 channel is affected the printer will clean just that channel.  Still unclear what it does if more than 1 channel is affected ... it may do a full head clean because it is faster than 2 individual channel cleans.

I've been tracking ink consumption since the printer was fixed Friday.  It hasn't had any clogs on startup, and there have been no faulty cleanings started when sending the first print.  After printing a 24x24" print I noticed some "banding" in a color checker image in the dark and medium grey patches.  I was printing a series of these for DPI tests for a new product we are going to make, and when I sent the second print, the printer correctly detected the clog, and cleaned.  Either PK or LK (or both) had one or two nozzles clogged (which I would have never seen on typical prints).  After it cleaned I checked the ink levels and noticed that all of the other channels were being consumed at a much slower rate... 1 to 2% vs these 2 at 5% since the service. I had printed about 20 square feet of paper, so the 1 to 2% rate seems about right for that much media.

This implies the printer did only clean the PK/LK channel and not all of the channels.  Only Epson can answer this question for sure, but I suspect now I was wrong in my original assumption and the printer is smart enough to clean only affected channels - at least when only 1 channel needs cleaned.

My printer has been performing much better except for this one instance where the clog occurred during the printing process itself, and I have had no faulty Auto Ink Detect cycles, just one correct one.

Fingers still crossed.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Margaret on February 12, 2009, 10:05:42 pm
Quote from: Wayne Fox
The tech showed up today, and the AID board showed OK for the first test, then failed for the second. This can cause intermittent and unnecessary head cleanings due to a fault reading of the Auto Ink Detector.

  He replaced the wiper assembly and the AID board, gave me a new maintenance cartridge and said he would get me a set of starter cartridges to replace the ink I've lost.  He's going to check on another board that may be an issue, and will call me wednesday.  He agreed that I shouldn't see clogged nozzles every time I started the machine ... but said sometimes they aren't from a clog but can be from a faulty pressure system.  No clog, just no ink at the nozzle.  This could possibly explain my previous post where several clogged channels cleared even though I didn't clean them.  He's going to research that more, and promised to replace the pump and head assembly if I continue to see nozzle issues each time I start the machine.

Very helpful and very interested in making the printer right for me.

Wayne,

Thank you so much for keeping us up to date on this issue.  I am struggling with whether to buy an Epson 900 series or the HP 3200.  There are many things that make the Epson appealing.  But I do go for fairly long periods of time without printing so this clog / clog control issue does concern me in a major way.  I'll be looking forward to hearing how things shake out.
Margee
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: stevegoldenberg on February 13, 2009, 10:26:51 am
Quote from: Wayne Fox
Quoting myself here because this may be incorrect. I have not found anyone that can officially answer this question, but after my experience today it appears if only 1 channel is affected the printer will clean just that channel.  Still unclear what it does if more than 1 channel is affected ... it may do a full head clean because it is faster than 2 individual channel cleans.

I've been tracking ink consumption since the printer was fixed Friday.  It hasn't had any clogs on startup, and there have been no faulty cleanings started when sending the first print.  After printing a 24x24" print I noticed some "banding" in a color checker image in the dark and medium grey patches.  I was printing a series of these for DPI tests for a new product we are going to make, and when I sent the second print, the printer correctly detected the clog, and cleaned.  Either PK or LK (or both) had one or two nozzles clogged (which I would have never seen on typical prints).  After it cleaned I checked the ink levels and noticed that all of the other channels were being consumed at a much slower rate... 1 to 2% vs these 2 at 5% since the service. I had printed about 20 square feet of paper, so the 1 to 2% rate seems about right for that much media.

This implies the printer did only clean the PK/LK channel and not all of the channels.  Only Epson can answer this question for sure, but I suspect now I was wrong in my original assumption and the printer is smart enough to clean only affected channels - at least when only 1 channel needs cleaned.

My printer has been performing much better except for this one instance where the clog occurred during the printing process itself, and I have had no faulty Auto Ink Detect cycles, just one correct one.

Fingers still crossed.

Thank you for the update Wayne.  Hopefully you Epson has fixed the problems for you for good.  
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: dwood on February 17, 2009, 09:09:21 pm
Well, this thread has certainly been an interesting read. I currently own a Canon 5100 and have been contemplating moving up to a 6100 or an Epson 7900. I've been pretty darn happy with the 5100. It produces very nice color and b&w prints, and the only failure I've had was an ink tank chip that went south. The 5100 is really boring...in a good way. It just works. No clogs, no problems at all in the 7 months I've owned it. I'm sure I'd be very happy with a 6100 but the 7900 seems like it may be at the top of the heap from an image quality standpoint. Reading about these 7900 problems throws up a red flag for me though. It almost sounds like Epson pushed this out the door a bit prematurely. This printer is a lot of dough. It shouldn't be causing this kind of grief for its users. Anyway, thanks to all of you 7900 owners for sharing your experiences here and I hope these issues get ironed out.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on February 18, 2009, 02:08:51 am
Quote from: dwood
Well, this thread has certainly been an interesting read. I currently own a Canon 5100 and have been contemplating moving up to a 6100 or an Epson 7900. I've been pretty darn happy with the 5100. It produces very nice color and b&w prints, and the only failure I've had was an ink tank chip that went south. The 5100 is really boring...in a good way. It just works. No clogs, no problems at all in the 7 months I've owned it. I'm sure I'd be very happy with a 6100 but the 7900 seems like it may be at the top of the heap from an image quality standpoint. Reading about these 7900 problems throws up a red flag for me though. It almost sounds like Epson pushed this out the door a bit prematurely. This printer is a lot of dough. It shouldn't be causing this kind of grief for its users. Anyway, thanks to all of you 7900 owners for sharing your experiences here and I hope these issues get ironed out.

I moved from an ipf6100 to the 7900.  While the ipf6100 is a great printer, there are a lot of things about the 7900 that I like better.  From my perspective, Epson has been very aggressive about my issues, and since the last service (a week ago last Friday), the Auto Nozzle Detect Feature has only triggered one cleaning cycle ... correctly.  I had one clog while printing a print, before printing the next print it cleaned the affected channel.  They have also provided more than enough ink to make up for that lost in the unnecessary cleanings before the Auto Nozzle Detect feature was repaired.  It appears (knock on wood) that the new head has solved the problems of easy clogging, and the adjustment to the AID unit has solved the unnecessary cleaning cycles.  Of course, it's only been 10 days.

I think Canon printers are terrific, but they are not clog free. In all likelihood your printer has some clogs by this time.  The difference in technologies allows this to be more transparent to users, since clogs are handled by consuming head nozzles instead of a system that requires all nozzles to be maintained clog free.

I agree there seems to be quite a few people having problems with excessive clogs and with unnecessary cleanings from faulty AID readings.  It appears the design is OK, (neither feature is new to the 79/9900) because not everyone is having problems,  and it appears now Epson realizes the issue and is offering service pretty quickly for those having the problem.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: dwood on February 18, 2009, 07:36:37 am
Quote from: Wayne Fox
I moved from an ipf6100 to the 7900.  While the ipf6100 is a great printer, there are a lot of things about the 7900 that I like better.  From my perspective, Epson has been very aggressive about my issues, and since the last service (a week ago last Friday), the Auto Nozzle Detect Feature has only triggered one cleaning cycle ... correctly.  I had one clog while printing a print, before printing the next print it cleaned the affected channel.  They have also provided more than enough ink to make up for that lost in the unnecessary cleanings before the Auto Nozzle Detect feature was repaired.  It appears (knock on wood) that the new head has solved the problems of easy clogging, and the adjustment to the AID unit has solved the unnecessary cleaning cycles.  Of course, it's only been 10 days.

I think Canon printers are terrific, but they are not clog free. In all likelihood your printer has some clogs by this time.  The difference in technologies allows this to be more transparent to users, since clogs are handled by consuming head nozzles instead of a system that requires all nozzles to be maintained clog free.

I agree there seems to be quite a few people having problems with excessive clogs and with unnecessary cleanings from faulty AID readings.  It appears the design is OK, (neither feature is new to the 79/9900) because not everyone is having problems,  and it appears now Epson realizes the issue and is offering service pretty quickly for those having the problem.

You're quite right that it's likely that there have been some clogs on my 5100. The difference, of course, is that because there are tens of thousands of nozzles available for remapping, Ive never been affected by the problem. Kind of nice.

Sounds like things are beginning to work a bit better for you now Wayne, which is great news. It's good to hear that Epson has been aggressive about addressing these things on your 7900. I live in Maine. If I had encountered these problems, I doubt an Epson tech. would be rushing right over to have a look-see. I need to factor this in, I suppose.

Since you've owned a 6100 in the past, I'd be very interested in your opinion as it relates to pure print quality between these two printers. I gather that the 7900 beats out the Canon in the reproduction of reds but is this it or are there noticeable differences across the board?
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on February 18, 2009, 12:32:46 pm
Quote from: dwood
You're quite right that it's likely that there have been some clogs on my 5100. The difference, of course, is that because there are tens of thousands of nozzles available for remapping, Ive never been affected by the problem. Kind of nice.

Sounds like things are beginning to work a bit better for you now Wayne, which is great news. It's good to hear that Epson has been aggressive about addressing these things on your 7900. I live in Maine. If I had encountered these problems, I doubt an Epson tech. would be rushing right over to have a look-see. I need to factor this in, I suppose.

Since you've owned a 6100 in the past, I'd be very interested in your opinion as it relates to pure print quality between these two printers. I gather that the 7900 beats out the Canon in the reproduction of reds but is this it or are there noticeable differences across the board?

I would agree that the way Canon handles clogs is nice.  While there are tens of thousands of nozzles, I think a great number are used for printing... I'm not sure there are tens of thousands available for remapping.  No matter, there seems to be plenty.

My 11880 and 2 3800's have had very few clogs, probably less than 10 between the 3 of them over the past couple of years.  Hopefully the 7900, now that it seems to be running correctly, will be as reliable.  Using a little ink to clear an occasional clog isn't a big deal ... the 7900 should perform at that level.

Personally I've always felt Epson head technology allowed for more precise dot placement which they take advantage in the screening process visible sometimes  in very subtle detail (on very close side by side examination).  I would suspect a few may show some slight color differences because of the expanded gamuts.  I don't have much output left from the 6100 so I can reprint images to compare.  I know each print that comes out of the printer is fantastic, there's just something about it that seems a little better than even my 11880.  Maybe I'm just trying to justify the investment.

I prefer Epson's paper feed system (very straight), the 7900 roll feed mechanism is terrific (no spindle through the core), and it is very fast and quiet.  But the Canon served me well, no complaints.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: dwood on February 18, 2009, 01:49:59 pm
Quote from: Wayne Fox
I would agree that the way Canon handles clogs is nice.  While there are tens of thousands of nozzles, I think a great number are used for printing... I'm not sure there are tens of thousands available for remapping.  No matter, there seems to be plenty.

My 11880 and 2 3800's have had very few clogs, probably less than 10 between the 3 of them over the past couple of years.  Hopefully the 7900, now that it seems to be running correctly, will be as reliable.  Using a little ink to clear an occasional clog isn't a big deal ... the 7900 should perform at that level.

Personally I've always felt Epson head technology allowed for more precise dot placement which they take advantage in the screening process visible sometimes  in very subtle detail (on very close side by side examination).  I would suspect a few may show some slight color differences because of the expanded gamuts.  I don't have much output left from the 6100 so I can reprint images to compare.  I know each print that comes out of the printer is fantastic, there's just something about it that seems a little better than even my 11880.  Maybe I'm just trying to justify the investment.

I prefer Epson's paper feed system (very straight), the 7900 roll feed mechanism is terrific (no spindle through the core), and it is very fast and quiet.  But the Canon served me well, no complaints.

Thanks for your thoughts on the topic.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: mrkahn on February 19, 2009, 11:01:16 pm
Just an update...parts arrived for my 9900 and service is due tomorrow to fix clogging problem.  I will let you know what happens.

Regards,
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: dgberg on February 20, 2009, 06:34:58 am
My 7900 had the same issue with random cleaning cycles. I called Epson service on Tuesday of this week . They sent me 2 boxes of parts wed. and the tech. came yesterday to service the unit. He changed the wiper assembly as well as several other parts. Updated the firmware then gave it a pretty good test. He disabled the auto nozzle check (At my request) and just told me to monitor it. My lk black cart that came with the unit was the first to go empty. I replaced it with the 700ml unit and it is down 10% all ready. (after 15 prints) That is cause for concern as I figured a set of 700 ml carts will last over a year for all I print. For those covering your printers . The tech told me any time I put any type of cover on a printer to turn it off. We will see how things wash out as I am looking to add the 9900 this summer .

Dan Berg
Bergs Canvas Gallery
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: mrkahn on February 20, 2009, 11:23:01 pm
I had the identical experience...the tech was here in the afternoon and replaced my cleaning mechanism and electronics board.  My Lt Black is also being consumed at an alarming rate and LLB is not far behind.  Hopefully the new parts will help the clogging problem.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: mrkahn on February 22, 2009, 02:37:54 pm
Not good news from the fouling front.  The tech was here on Friday and replaced the cleaning mechanism, including the cap.  I printed some pictures on Saturday...no problems.  Then did a pattern check on Sunday morning and 1 head was clogged on about 4 nozels.  I did a cleaning on that head (2 colors) and it cleared.  Frankly, this is worse than my 4800.  I intend to call them back on Monday.

Malcolm
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on February 24, 2009, 11:35:25 pm
Probably the last report on my status, unless things change.  My wife has been in the hospital since the 14th, so my printer has seen very little use.  Last tuesday I was at my office long enough to fire it up, print a nozzle check (no clogs), and print a test page (no cleaning required).  Today I did the same thing, with the same results.  Despite being off for one week, the machine worked perfectly.  It now appears to be operating much like I expected, based on my 11880.

For me Epson was extremely responsive, very concerned, and provided far more replacement ink than I lost in the excessive cleanings.

Excited now to get the wife healthy so I can make some prints.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: mrkahn on February 24, 2009, 11:44:49 pm
Epson responded today and now suggests that the machine be turned off overnight.  I'm going to run this way and will report back.  I agree that Epson has been responsive.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Farmer on February 27, 2009, 10:24:32 pm
Sorry to hear your wife is in hospital, Wayne - I wish her a speedy recovery!
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: mrkahn on March 03, 2009, 07:20:21 am
Well, I tried turning the machine off for a few days and after turning it on...yes, it actually didn't have any cloggs.  That's the good news.  I then printed maybe 5 prints and turned if off.  The next day on startup one of the heads was clogged yet again.  Needless to say, the concept of turning it off at night isn't the answer.  Note that this experience is after having the cleaning mechanism replaced 2 weeks ago.  Back to Epson Service today.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on March 03, 2009, 11:05:20 pm
Quote from: Farmer
Sorry to hear your wife is in hospital, Wayne - I wish her a speedy recovery!

thanks.  After 16 days in the hospital, she's finally home.  Once they got her through the initial problem she had a surgery which went well. It will change things a little in managing her condition, bringing some new challenges but overall I think it will improve our ability to travel a little and enjoy some places we would like to see.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Farmer on March 04, 2009, 01:41:22 am
Quote from: Wayne Fox
thanks.  After 16 days in the hospital, she's finally home.  Once they got her through the initial problem she had a surgery which went well. It will change things a little in managing her condition, bringing some new challenges but overall I think it will improve our ability to travel a little and enjoy some places we would like to see.

That's good news - glad to hear that things went well!
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: DeanChriss on March 07, 2009, 09:12:59 am
I've been reading this and related threads with much interest. I thought I'd add my 2 cents in case it might help someone. I've had the 7900 for about 2.5 months and initially it was doing the automatic cleanings very frequently. It never reported that a cleaning failed. I turned off the automatic nozzle check and found that after sitting unused for more than a day or two there would indeed be 30%-50% of the nozzles clogged (or maybe just no ink present there for some reason) on just a couple of colors, frequently yellow, less often orange and LK. The other colors would all be normal and clog free. So the automatic ink detection (AID) seemed to be working properly but there was still a problem. This pattern continued for quite a while. At about the time I was going to get Epson to send someone out to look at it the issue it vanished. Even though the printer would often sit (turned off) for one to five days the nozzle checks were always good. Now I'm just back from a 2-week trip and the printer was totally unused for about 2.5 weeks, and a nozzle check still shows zero clogs. I'm happy.

I'm not sure what caused the initial problems. The prints created then looked fine so I doubt there was air in the lines or something of that nature. I'm just about to change the first (LK) ink cartridge, so all of this happened on the initial set of inks.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: datro on March 08, 2009, 11:57:48 am
My experience was similar with my 7900...for the first 4-5 weeks it would do the Auto Nozzle Check and initiate an Auto Clean (which always reported "Automatic Head Cleaning Failed") every time I powered up.  I would always immediately print a nozzle check after this and most of the time everything was clean.  

The last clog I had which required a manual "Normal Cleaning" was a month ago.  Since then I have had zero problems, even after letting it sit for as much as 6 days between printing sessions.  It seems like the printer has settled in after the first month and for whatever reason is not having to run the Auto Clean each time I power up.  In any case, I am now keeping a log for each printing session to track the printer's behavior over time.

Note:  Epson America just released the latest firmware update for the 7900 (HN01692) and they have removed the "power up" execution of the Auto Nozzle Check.  This does not change the control panel settings for Auto Nozzle Check; they are still "ON: PERIODICALLY", "ON: EVERY JOB", or "OFF".  See the firmware update release notes for some other minor changes.

Dave
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: dgberg on March 08, 2009, 01:39:01 pm
Dave
What position do you have your nozzle check set at? I had mine off but may set it to periodic with the new firmware.
Dan Berg
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: datro on March 08, 2009, 02:53:07 pm
Dan, my Auto Nozzle Check setting has been on the default "ON: PERIODICALLY" since I've had the printer.

Dave
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Ralph Eisenberg on March 09, 2009, 08:11:49 am
Quote from: Wayne Fox
now to get the wife healthy so I can make some prints.

I hope that the after-hospital recovery is going smoothly ... and that you are making prints!
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: kuau on March 09, 2009, 06:16:53 pm
Wow, I am just about ready to pull the trigger on a new 9900, I use to own a canon IPF8000 for over 2 years  which was problem free for me. I could leave the printer off for a week then comeback and do prints with no problem at all. I do love the paper feed on the 9900 and the fact that it can take 700ml carts now, but.... If you have to clean the heads all the time and deal with clogs now I am scared and thinking about going with an ipf8100 instead and also save over 1000.00 $.
I primarily print on canvas, do some water color paper and like canon's photo rag.  Am i crazy to be nervous about the 9900?

Steven
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: 52days on March 09, 2009, 06:55:46 pm
After installing 4 new ink cartridges my 9900 went in to what seemed to be an endless cleaning cycle, oozing ink in to the maintenance tank. I was unable to turn off the printer or enter the menu.

I called epson support and was told to pull the plug. Judging from the sound of the printer, I thought it was the vacuum pump failing. A technician showed up a week later, and told me that it was not a printer failure, but a cartridge failure and that epson have had this problem lately.

Inside a cartridge is a plastic bag with the ink, inside another plastic bag that fills with air provided by the vacuum pump. If the  outside bag leaks air, the vacuum pump can't provide enough pressure. That's why my 9900 went in to a trance.


Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: snickgrr on March 09, 2009, 07:29:54 pm
Mine seems to work as promised.  Shortly after getting it and only after a half dozen prints I started over a month long project where the printer wasn't used.  Upon firing it back up I did one cleaning and it hasn't clogged since. I turn it off at the end of each session and print a nozzle check print upon turning it on again. I did turn off the automatic nozzle check option.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on March 10, 2009, 01:52:46 am
Quote from: Ralph Eisenberg
I hope that the after-hospital recovery is going smoothly ... and that you are making prints!

Thanks.  Her recovery is slow but seeing improvements daily.

Happily back at the office a few hours a day now, and working on some prints.  The 7900 still seems to be operating flawlessly since the last service call, Auto nozzle detect set to check every print, printer turned off each night and back on each morning.  Only 1 cleaning of 1 set of colors since the last repair.  Seems to operating as reliable as my 11880 now.

Happy camper.  I really like this printer.  
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Ernst Dinkla on March 10, 2009, 04:20:40 am
Quote from: 52days
I called epson support and was told to pull the plug. Judging from the sound of the printer, I thought it was the vacuum pump failing. A technician showed up a week later, and told me that it was not a printer failure, but a cartridge failure and that epson have had this problem lately.

Inside a cartridge is a plastic bag with the ink, inside another plastic bag that fills with air provided by the vacuum pump. If the  outside bag leaks air, the vacuum pump can't provide enough pressure. That's why my 9900 went in to a trance.

That risk has always been there since Epson introduced the air pressure assisted ink loading on the 10000 model.
If someone mentions problems like you describe or a printer error related to the air pressure sensor I usuallly answers to check the cart membrane which is the weak point of the system.



met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)

New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions
            www.pigment-print.com
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Ralph Eisenberg on March 10, 2009, 05:20:30 am
Quote from: Wayne Fox
Thanks.  Her recovery is slow but seeing improvements daily.

Good news is scarce these days...   And this is good news indeed, may it continue unabated.

Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: sfblue on March 19, 2009, 05:44:42 pm
Aaargh.  Any advice?  I have a new 7900 and I have turned auto nozzle cleaning off.   Still, when I send a print job sometimes it runs a cleaning cycle before printing.  The problem is that it sometimes does this again after just a few prints-- even while not doing the mk/pk switch.  After running a dozen or so sheets through, the lk is already showing "ink low."    Should I be patient and let my printer "settle in" as others have suggested?   Or do I need to call Epson?  Or am I doing something wrong?   Thanks.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Ryan Grayley on March 19, 2009, 08:03:39 pm
Quote from: sfblue
Aaargh.  Any advice?  I have a new 7900 and I have turned auto nozzle cleaning off.   Still, when I send a print job sometimes it runs a cleaning cycle before printing.  The problem is that it sometimes does this again after just a few prints-- even while not doing the mk/pk switch.  After running a dozen or so sheets through, the lk is already showing "ink low."    Should I be patient and let my printer "settle in" as others have suggested?   Or do I need to call Epson?  Or am I doing something wrong?   Thanks.

That doesn't seem right. I suggest that you call Epson.

I just hope you don't live in the UK as it took Epson over two months to respond to my 7900 problems!

Good luck

Ryan
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Doombrain on March 20, 2009, 09:12:31 am
Quote from: sfblue
Aaargh.  Any advice?  I have a new 7900 and I have turned auto nozzle cleaning off.   Still, when I send a print job sometimes it runs a cleaning cycle before printing.  The problem is that it sometimes does this again after just a few prints-- even while not doing the mk/pk switch.  After running a dozen or so sheets through, the lk is already showing "ink low."    Should I be patient and let my printer "settle in" as others have suggested?   Or do I need to call Epson?  Or am I doing something wrong?   Thanks.

have you installed the latest firmware from the Epson site?
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: sfblue on March 20, 2009, 12:46:13 pm
Quote from: Doombrain
have you installed the latest firmware from the Epson site?

I did install the latest firmware right away when I got it.   Thanks.   Yesterday it did three cleaning cycles including a long one that markedly affected the level of inks.   Today-- after only printing a few prints-- nothing thus far.   Hoping it "settles in."
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: alexsar on March 20, 2009, 01:36:20 pm
I have been the (mostly) happy owner of a 7900 for the past two weeks
the print count shows exactly 100 prints
the technical manager for Epson here in Athens told me right from the start to have the auto cleaning off and to await an eventual firmware solution;
having followed his advice I print before starting a printing session(ie once a day) a nozzle check
So far I have had  four occasions where cleaning was indicated by the test pattern
I have used the cleaning by pairs option and after having cleaned the first pair (with minimal ink consumption) three out of the four times the test pattern printed out fine;
also ,regarding settling in three of the four times  occurred during the first week
finally Athens being very dry , humidity has ranged from the low thirties to mid forties in my studio
print quality is superb both on harman baryta glossy, hahnemulle photo rag baryta glossy as well as hahnemulle photorag matte (super b&W) and daguerre canvas
however if the edges are twisted the printer chews them up, it is not forgiving at all so i tend to manually bend them backwards on the Harman

hope this helps

Alexandros
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: alexsar on March 20, 2009, 01:38:12 pm
By the way I have never had the printer initiate a head cleaning on its own even after having switched inks

Alexandros
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: framah on March 20, 2009, 02:46:04 pm
My 9900 is due into the store on Monday. I'm glad I read thru his thread and will keep my eyes peeled for these problems.

Mu 9600 has been one trusty machine and I could have it turned off for a month, turn it on and send a file to it and get a good print.
I might leave it in the store for a month or so just in case.

Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Paul Eby on March 23, 2009, 04:37:17 pm
Thought I would add my recent experience. This is in no way meant to bash Epson. I'm more looking to see if anyone else experienced the same install issues.

Just spent 1/2 of Sat and all day Sunday installing our 7900. If anyone else has networked their printer I'd be interested in to hear how it went for you. It took several installs and to basically ignore the supplied instructions before I could get communication between printer and PC.

Once set up I printed a couple of test prints and then compared them with our previous printer (7600) On the 7600 I was printing with Bill Atkinsons profiles, on the 7900 I used the supplied Epson profiles. The results I found are so marginal that I'm must admit to having purchase remorse. The one area I am happy with though is there is no longer that "3D/bronzing" affect in the paper white areas.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Mulis Pictus on March 28, 2009, 10:48:44 am
Hi all,

I would like to share my experience. My 7900 was bitten by the same problem, it was clogging very often, in the end sometimes even in 12hours.

I read through this thread and it was very helpful to me. I turned off the auto nozzle check and contacted Epson. They use external company here in .cz to do the service, called Dileris. I was pleasantly surprised how professional service I got.

After few days when the necessary parts arrived, technician came to my place, replaced the cleaning system and did few adjustments. I didn't get single clog since then, about two weeks now. (knock, knock on the wood ;-)) He was very generous and sent me ink cartridges as compensation for ink I lost in cleanings.

I am a happy Epson user again.

Mulis Pictus
--
http://mulispictus.cz (http://mulispictus.cz)
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: pindman on March 28, 2009, 11:18:16 am
Quote from: Mulis Pictus
Hi all,

I would like to share my experience. My 7900 was bitten by the same problem, it was clogging very often, in the end sometimes even in 12hours.

I read through this thread and it was very helpful to me. I turned off the auto nozzle check and contacted Epson. They use external company here in .cz to do the service, called Dileris. I was pleasantly surprised how professional service I got.

After few days when the necessary parts arrived, technician came to my place, replaced the cleaning system and did few adjustments. I didn't get single clog since then, about two weeks now. (knock, knock on the wood ;-)) He was very generous and sent me ink cartridges as compensation for ink I lost in cleanings.

I am a happy Epson user again.

Mulis Pictus
--
http://mulispictus.cz (http://mulispictus.cz)

I have had my 9900 for 1 1/2 months and it is fantastic!  I was concerned about the set-up.  Spectraflow is in my area, and Julian Mussi came and helped set it up.  Absolutely no problems with the ink, and the prints are the best I've seen!

The only problem I am having now is with indentations on Harman Fb Al paper.  See thread http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=33141 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=33141).  But this paper and printer combo is such that I wouldn't think of changing either.

Good luck!

Paul
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: josh perkins on April 02, 2009, 06:36:44 pm
Well dreadfully, I've been following this post since prior to purchasing the 9900.  My 9900 came in last week and I too am having the Auto Nozzle Check & Cleaning issues.  Got a support tech coming in next week to look at it.  Argh.  I guess for now with Auto Nozzle Check off, I can print fine.  Just can't believe how widespread this issue is.  Thankfully Epson is on the ball with helping me resolve the issue.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: fjmcsu on June 06, 2009, 07:42:41 pm
I know this subject has been discussed but would like to relay my exasperating ordeal so far. By way of introduction, I photograph, print & sell my work using various cameras & have also used the Epson series 7000(converted to Piezo neutral),7600 color & now the 7900. I have been doing this for about 8 years now. I also profile my own paper,ink, printer combinations using Egrosoft GPS & output with StudioPrint; ......SO I  jumped into this new printer with great enthusiasm.I received the printer ,initialized the ink, & as many have reported received all the bad omens;Cleaning cycles which failed, resultant ink levels too low to print- I was stuck without replacement cartridges not knowing they should be mandatory(as well as maintenance tank filters) when purchasing the printer! In fact I am STILL waiting for  replacement cartridges(had printer now ~1 week),as they are not readily available in this area. So I finally was able to replace cartridges enough to load a paper & update the firmware! HOORAY- progress, I think. As I opened the front door to look at the print head while the printer was idle, the clip on the right side that keeps the door shut broke off. Now I have to wedge an eraser between the body & the door to prevent a "door open" error.
Well,as others have said, & what I have read, the output is wonderful, I just wonder sometimes at what cost. Oh well, someday my cartridges will arrive & I can start to really get into this printer!
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: deanb2010 on June 07, 2009, 01:12:33 am
It has been interesting following the issues with the 7900.  I got mine about 2 months ago.  It replaced a 7600 that I wanted to burn at the stake for all the ink I wasted trying to get a clean nozzle check. I was going to go for the HP because of my issues with the 7600, but decided to stick with the Epson when I saw the print quality.  My experience with the 7900 has been quite good so far.  The initialization went well and I have made many (10+) large 24x36 as well as a lot of smaller 8x10/11x14 prints.  So far I have only had to replace 2 of the baby cartridges.  (I'm going for the 350ml replacements).  

My observations so far.  1) Print quality is amazing. 2)Because I don't trust automatic anything (like the nozzle check,) I turned it off early in the game - and have not been sorry.  Early on I was having significant clogs - actually I think they were "ink outs" or bubbles in the line because of the size of the missing patches.  I have kept every nozzle check I have run on this printer because I am parinoid about clogs and I wasn't going to put up with the issues I had with the 7600, the nozzle checks are my evidence.  My suggestion is that those who are getting large patches of missing ink in the nozzle check, is to be patient until the ink flow settles in.  I print about every 3rd day of so, I live in a dry climate <20% average humidity (18% right now), and so far this printer has been what I think it should be.  In the last month, I have only had 3 colors that were clogged in only one spot (position or whatever) each.  The head pair cleaning solved the issues (see next observation). 3) The head pair cleaning does not work as Epson implies (see the head pair cleaning thread) so don't be deceived.  I wish it did work like it should, and I hope Epson fixes it. 4) Don't panic when the printer says 10% used in an ink cartridge.  I've had multiple cartridges at 1% for a lot of prints. The ink volume counter does not seem to track well at all. My suspicion is that Epson wants you order ink early; if you get 1 million cartridges ordered early...look at the cash flow for them.  I'm just cynical enough to believe this is a marketing play by Epson. 5)I have only switched from Matte black to Photo Black once...I was disappointed in the ink used, but it was not way out of line like some have reported. 6) I have had so few cleanings that my "diaper" cartridge has gone from a low of 42% back up to 46% available.  I have no idea how Epson comes up with that one...I really doubt the firmware is accounting for evaporation.  I think it goes along with the bad reporting of ink usage.

I have been patient because, honestly, I don't want a support tech touching the printer unless I abolutely have too. From experience (with other products) a piece of equipment is likely to come out of the factory better set up than a lot of service people could reset or fix. No offense to the techs out there...but they typically don't have enough training or enough of the right tools to really do it right.  If you get a good one, do all you can to keep 'em.

There are some things that Epson needs to fix...hopefully they will, but so far so good.  (I do have a wood desk, and yes, I am knocking on it).
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: arcman on June 07, 2009, 10:35:19 am
Quote from: goldmember
That's great news Wayne.  

I've heard that the humidity where the printer lives has a huge impact on clogs - what's your climate like where you have the printer?


I'm skeptical of claims about low humidity having an affect on print head clogging.  The 'pump/cap' assembly looks like it's designed to seal off the head from outside dry air.  The pad is always soaked in ink (if you use the printer at all), which creates its own humid environment.  I'm in Wisconsin and I have two 9800's sitting side by side. The one closest to a heat duct has never had a clogged head.  The one further away has lately had mucho nozzle clogs.  The Windex trick has helped a bunch on that one.  The other one now has a new problem. (see new post)
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: fjmcsu on June 07, 2009, 10:46:32 am
Quote from: deanb2010
It has been interesting following the issues with the 7900.  I got mine about 2 months ago.  It replaced a 7600 that I wanted to burn at the stake for all the ink I wasted trying to get a clean nozzle check. I was going to go for the HP because of my issues with the 7600, but decided to stick with the Epson when I saw the print quality.  My experience with the 7900 has been quite good so far.  The initialization went well and I have made many (10+) large 24x36 as well as a lot of smaller 8x10/11x14 prints.  So far I have only had to replace 2 of the baby cartridges.  (I'm going for the 350ml replacements).  

My observations so far. I print about every 3rd day of so, I live in a dry climate <20% average humidity (18% right now), and so far this printer has been what I think it should be.  In the last month, I have only had 3 colors that were clogged in only one spot (position or whatever) each.  The head pair cleaning solved the issues (see next observation). 3) The head pair cleaning does not work as Epson implies (see the head pair cleaning thread) so don't be deceived.  I wish it did work like it should, and I hope Epson fixes it. 4) Don't panic when the printer says 10% used in an ink cartridge.  I've had multiple cartridges at 1% for a lot of prints. The ink volume counter does not seem to track well at all. My suspicion is that Epson wants you order ink early; if you get 1 million cartridges ordered early...look at the cash flow for them.  I'm just cynical enough to believe this is a marketing play by Epson.
I have been patient because, honestly, I don't want a support tech touching the printer unless I abolutely have too. From experience (with other products) a piece of equipment is likely to come out of the factory better set up than a lot of service people could reset or fix. No offense to the techs out there...but they typically don't have enough training or enough of the right tools to really do it right.  If you get a good one, do all you can to keep 'em.

There are some things that Epson needs to fix...hopefully they will, but so far so good.  (I do have a wood desk, and yes, I am knocking on it).


Good to hear your experience has been positive & I am hoping for that too.I was a bit chagrined after having to replace 2 starter cartridges that when I did one nozzle cleaning(I finally turned off auto clean) that my 350 ml cartridge was already @ 95%! As per your experience,perhaps the measurements is not that accurate! Hopefully all well settle out in time. I just don't remember having very many issues with the 7600;clogs were present periodically but easily fixed. I too live in an arid climate(currently 16%). At first was using a humidifier but found  that it was really impossible to keep the humidity significantly higher with the machine I had & with hard our water , buying ionized or filtered water just became a   expense I didn't need.
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Quentin on October 03, 2009, 06:08:47 am
A thought for this old thread.

My new 7900 had an "automatic head cleaning failed" message today right after I installed a new light black cart and the printer ran an automatic cleaning cycle.  I printed out a nozzle check and I noticed two things.  First, just one black nozzle was not firing and second there appeared to be a small piece of ink-soaked lint on the surface of the nozzle check pattern.

I suspect that as this is a new printer, maybe a speck of loose lint or other material was impacting on the cleaning.  Second and possibly of more general relevance, I believe that a print head clean can cause temporarily blocked nozzles that will clear of their own accord if left for a little while, and that was what was happening here.  I found with my old 7600 that if I had a persistent blocked nozzle, just letting the printer sit for an hour or even less time often solved the problem - maybe it needs time for small bubbles caused by the cleaning cycle to dissipate?.  The same seems to be true with the 7900.  I left it for a short while and now the missing nozzle is firing with no further cleaning.  I have therefore turned off automotic print head cleaning.

Quentin
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Wayne Fox on October 04, 2009, 12:24:46 am
Quote from: Quentin
A thought for this old thread.

My new 7900 had an "automatic head cleaning failed" message today right after I installed a new light black cart and the printer ran an automatic cleaning cycle.  I printed out a nozzle check and I noticed two things.  First, just one black nozzle was not firing and second there appeared to be a small piece of ink-soaked lint on the surface of the nozzle check pattern.

I suspect that as this is a new printer, maybe a speck of loose lint or other material was impacting on the cleaning.  Second and possibly of more general relevance, I believe that a print head clean can cause temporarily blocked nozzles that will clear of their own accord if left for a little while, and that was what was happening here.  I found with my old 7600 that if I had a persistent blocked nozzle, just letting the printer sit for an hour or even less time often solved the problem - maybe it needs time for small bubbles caused by the cleaning cycle to dissipate?.  The same seems to be true with the 7900.  I left it for a short while and now the missing nozzle is firing with no further cleaning.  I have therefore turned off automotic print head cleaning.

Quentin

Several of us have noted that cleaning heads often result in more clogged nozzles.  Using lower level cleans seems to help with this.  I've never had to let the printer "sit" to clear a nozzle, just used a less aggressive clean in service mode.

Not sure what you mean by turning off Automatic print head cleaning.  You may want to review some of the threads, because you can't just turn this feature off.

The printer allows you to disable an auto nozzle check before it prints a print.  There are 3 options, check before every print, check before some prints, or never check.  However, turning this off does not disable nozzle checks/cleanings from other functions.

Every time the printer finishes a clean ( full clean or just a color pair), it will do an Auto Nozzle Check and if that fails, it will try to clear it.  If the ANC circuitry detects a problem it will clean again.  I'm not sure if it tries twice or three times, but if at some point if it continues to fail, it will inform you it failed and ask if  you want to try it again. Often the nozzles are fine, the circuitry is either defective or is just being too picky.  In addition, any time you do a black ink switch the printer will perform an auto nozzle check.  You cannot "disable" these nozzle checks.

However, you can use service mode cleans to bypass these checks and cleans.  If you start the printer in service mode, the cleaning menu gives you 4 levels of cleans (CL1 to CL4) and you can perform any one of these on the entire head or just color pairs.  In service mode the ANC function is not employed, so you can verify the nozzles by printing a nozzle check pattern (which you have to print from the host computer if you are in service mode).  CL1 appears to only use about 1 to 1.5 ml per nozzle to clean, and nearly all of the time this is enough to clear a color.  Also if you switch blacks while in service mode there is no nozzle check and automatic clean. (To get into service mode, hold down the center(menu) button, the down (paper advance) button, and the right (menu) button simultaneously while powering the printer on.)
Title: ESP 7900 Feature
Post by: Murph on October 04, 2009, 11:06:55 am
Wayne best wishes for her speedy and complete recovery.