Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Landscape Photography Locations => Topic started by: Khurram on November 11, 2008, 08:50:06 pm

Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: Khurram on November 11, 2008, 08:50:06 pm
I'll be leaving for London, England on Nov 20th and wanted to get some advice on photo oppertunities in London.

Is this too late for fall colors there???  If there is still some good color at this time are there any gardens anyone can recommend.

I'll be there for just over a week and will have the weekend before starting my assignment for adjusting to the time difference which is code for photography time:D

I may also stay in London or take the train to Paris for the following weekend.  So any advice for London or Paris would be appreciated, as well as what to expect weather wise.

Any advice of what to expect at Heathrow airport will also be appreciated.
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: jjj on November 11, 2008, 10:20:49 pm
London is not the place one usually goes to for such photography. However there are some large green spaces around.
Kew Gardens and Richmond Park are two of the biggies and very different from each other, one being quite manicured and with numerous hothouses, the other has the grass and heather  trimmed by the roaming deer. Hyde Park is closer to centre
You may be a bit late for autumnal colours as there have been some cold spells already, though you may be lucky.


Paris - very little greenery comapered to London and the time spent travelling to another city and sorting out hotels, unpacking etc.. is valuable photo time, so I'd go to Paris on another occasion seeing as time is tight. London has somewhat more than 2 weekends of looking around as does Paris.  

Heathrow airport - trashed/stolen bags and over zealous and jobsworthy officials who if your camera bag is 2mm too big they want it to go in the hold.    Can't remember if the stupid 1 bag rule is still in force at Heathrow - worth checking.
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: SteveBlack on November 12, 2008, 05:48:45 pm
Afraid you'll miss most of the fall colours.  I haven't been to Hyde park in a few weeks, but the trees in my neighbourhood (walking distance) are already half-bare.  Still plenty to explore!
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: Box Brownie on November 13, 2008, 05:25:54 am
Hi

If you are happy to include some cityscape viewing I recommend Tower Bridge link here http://www.towerbridge.org.uk/TowerBridge/English (http://www.towerbridge.org.uk/TowerBridge/English) we went up it on Tuesday and as Brit who has driven over the bridge oh so many times this was the first chance I had to do the tourist 'bit'.  Costs £6 which IMO is very much worth it for the insight into this iconic landmark and the views are stunning.

HTH
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: MarkL on November 13, 2008, 07:30:47 am
London is not really a good place to shoot anything landscape! Also bear in mind the weather we have here - expect overcast flat light which makes night shooting a good option.

Stuff that is good to shoot in London:

Buildings around Canary Wharf (note: security will get you if you use a tripod!)
Lloyds building at night looks really cool
Lots of cityscape night shots to be had from south bank, the bridges are nice to shoot too
Oxford street is great for street photography if it's your thing but you have to have good reactions (it's manic!)
Columbia Road Flower market on Sundays
Go on the London eye and shoot from the pod
Entertainers in covant garden - getting peoples' reactions to mimes etc is also fun

That should keep you busy! If you get bad weather go to the photographers gallery (http://www.photonet.org.uk), the AOP (http://www.the-aop.org), Annie Leibovitz exhibition at the National Protrait Gallery(http://www.npg.org.uk/annieleibovitz/index.htm) or chat to the friendly guys at silverprint in waterloo
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: Khurram on November 13, 2008, 09:14:14 am
Quote from: MarkL
London is not really a good place to shoot anything landscape! Also bear in mind the weather we have here - expect overcast flat light which makes night shooting a good option.

Stuff that is good to shoot in London:

Buildings around Canary Wharf (note: security will get you if you use a tripod!)
Lloyds building at night looks really cool
Lots of cityscape night shots to be had from south bank, the bridges are nice to shoot too
Oxford street is great for street photography if it's your thing but you have to have good reactions (it's manic!)
Columbia Road Flower market on Sundays
Go on the London eye and shoot from the pod
Entertainers in covant garden - getting peoples' reactions to mimes etc is also fun

That should keep you busy! If you get bad weather go to the photographers gallery (http://www.photonet.org.uk), the AOP (http://www.the-aop.org), Annie Leibovitz exhibition at the National Protrait Gallery(http://www.npg.org.uk/annieleibovitz/index.htm) or chat to the friendly guys at silverprint in waterloo

Thanks for the suggestions.  Are there any actual rules against tripod use or does security just hassle you?
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: Khurram on November 13, 2008, 09:17:08 am
Quote from: Box Brownie
Hi

If you are happy to include some cityscape viewing I recommend Tower Bridge link here http://www.towerbridge.org.uk/TowerBridge/English (http://www.towerbridge.org.uk/TowerBridge/English) we went up it on Tuesday and as Brit who has driven over the bridge oh so many times this was the first chance I had to do the tourist 'bit'.  Costs £6 which IMO is very much worth it for the insight into this iconic landmark and the views are stunning.

HTH
Thanks for the suggestion.  I think my hotel is right next to the bridge, so it should be one of the easier excursions to do
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: Khurram on November 13, 2008, 09:18:28 am
Quote from: jjj
London is not the place one usually goes to for such photography. However there are some large green spaces around.
Kew Gardens and Richmond Park are two of the biggies and very different from each other, one being quite manicured and with numerous hothouses, the other has the grass and heather  trimmed by the roaming deer. Hyde Park is closer to centre
You may be a bit late for autumnal colours as there have been some cold spells already, though you may be lucky.


Paris - very little greenery comapered to London and the time spent travelling to another city and sorting out hotels, unpacking etc.. is valuable photo time, so I'd go to Paris on another occasion seeing as time is tight. London has somewhat more than 2 weekends of looking around as does Paris.  

Heathrow airport - trashed/stolen bags and over zealous and jobsworthy officials who if your camera bag is 2mm too big they want it to go in the hold.    Can't remember if the stupid 1 bag rule is still in force at Heathrow - worth checking.
I appreciate the suggestions.  I'll do a search on the Key Gardens and Richmond Park.
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: john beardsworth on November 13, 2008, 10:13:55 am
Quote from: Khurram
Thanks for the suggestions.  Are there any actual rules against tripod use or does security just hassle you?
Not really. They just don't have anything else to do to fill their hours, and it's not a big mental leap from spotting a camera and tripod to deciding you must be conducting covert reconnaissance for jihad....

Round Canary Wharf is privately owned land, so they can set the rules. If you're quick, you can get your pictures and move on. If they do approach you, just play ignorant, and ask them lots of awkward questions - enough to encourage them to look the other way next time they spot a photographer.

Another good place is Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park on Sunday. And on Saturday you're close to the Borough Food Market.

John
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: john beardsworth on November 13, 2008, 10:17:58 am
By the way, I see you may be Asian / M Eastern. My quip about jihad wasn't directed at you - I feel that's how I'm treated by these security goons.
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: situgrrl on November 13, 2008, 02:06:16 pm
Get up to alexandra palace for amazing views across the city.

RE Tripods - they can be major issues I'm afraid.  In Cardiff I was detained by CSOs and had 5 officers come and convince me to leave...I did - though they had no legal remit to do so.  Print this and keep it in your bag http://www.sirimo.co.uk/media/UKPhotographersRights.pdf (http://www.sirimo.co.uk/media/UKPhotographersRights.pdf)

Cops don't tend to be an issue - it's Community Support Officers (CSOs) that are.  You can tell the difference as CPOs have a blue band around their hats instead of the check pattern.  Always be unfailingly polite with them and be aware that they are trained to take charge of a situation and compel you do do as they wish by taking a psychological upper hand.  if you are more polite than them - and you know the law - then they are likely to get embarrassed and scuttle off pretty quickly.  Are you traveling on business?  If so, I would suggest you keep proof of employment with you to prove your photography is not work related.

You will notice from the law that photography for pleasure is NEVER illegal on public property providing no other law is being contravenes AND it is not for commercial purposes.  The onus is therefore on the police to provide "reasonable grounds for suspicion" that it is your intention to PASS photographs USEFUL to "enemy combatants."  If there is not reasonable grounds for this - and you are arrested - you can sue for unlawful arrest.

The reality is that such a case is not worth fighting - but if things get sticky, it is something that is worth bringing up politely.

The likelyhood of arrest is VERY slim but the likelihood of someone coming over for a chat is much more likely - and directly proportional to the amount of kit you are using.  If you intend on setting up shots on a tripod, spending a long time composing or waiting for the light, I would suggest calling the Met and informing them in advance.  12 hours should be plenty of notice.  Get a reference number and the name and time of the call....the chance of a chat is not reduced - but it gives you some legitimacy that can be easily and quickly verified.  

Bare in mind that a tripod, whilst not illegal - can be an "obstruction" - if you are using one in a busy area - expect hassle.  My solution is http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/site/manfro...8|69&idx=72 (http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/site/manfrotto/cache/off/pid/2211?livid=68|69&idx=72)

Heathrow - make sure your hand baggage of the correct size.  Leave plenty of time as it's slow and don't wear your 20 hole doc martens (as I did last time) as you have to remove your shoes for x-ray.  If you fly with a good airline though, you shouldn't have major issues.  Don't mention bombs - even in a legitimate context as some muppets get really jumpy.

HTH

Charly
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: jjj on November 13, 2008, 09:14:36 pm
Quote from: MarkL
Buildings around Canary Wharf (note: security will get you if you use a tripod!)
Quote from: johnbeardy
Not really. They just don't have anything else to do to fill their hours, and it's not a big mental leap from spotting a camera and tripod to deciding you must be conducting covert reconnaissance for jihad....
I had problem doing a shoot there in 2000, before all the security scares.

Quote from: johnbeardy
Round Canary Wharf is privately owned land, so they can set the rules. If you're quick, you can get your pictures and move on. If they do approach you, just play ignorant, and ask them lots of awkward questions - enough to encourage them to look the other way next time they spot a photographer.
The rules are no professional photography and as only professionals use triopds I was allowed to carry on doing the obviously non-amateur shoot as long as I left tripod alone. The guard was actually quite relaxed about such things and although he knew I was on a job I was allowed to continue. But this was before photographers suddenly turned into paedophilles and terrorists. It also helped that is was Sunday and therefore empty - it's a business area.
The no tripod rule is a shame as I had [still have] an idea for an image that required the camera to be locked down whilst several shots were taken.
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: john beardsworth on November 14, 2008, 05:07:53 am
Actually, there's always (ie since 89-90) been a problem with security goons round there, and you are also forgetting the IRA bomb was in 96. That's when security and the appearance of security really tightened up in the area, and it coincided with much more CCTV so the goons could just watch you from their portakabins without spoiling their enjoyment of yesterday's Sun.

You get similar hassles all over London where apparently-public spaces such as the London Eye or the City Hall area are in fact privately owned. I just pick my moment for using the tripod, often when I'm ready to leave. With better high ISO performance, you have to wonder how long it will be before they try to interfere with anyone using a camera bigger than a cellphone.
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: spidermike on November 14, 2008, 05:55:36 am
If you can get out slightly west of London (train services are good) then Windsor Great Park is a good bet as well. On misty mornings you can get some great shots of deer and Windsor Castle.
I am often pleasantly surprsied when I go to London - spend some time looking upwards and you will see much old architecture that commercialisatino has obscured at street level.  

I once googled 'photography guide to london' and came up with these (as well loads of others). I see the second one has similar info for Paris:
http://photo.net/uk/london (http://photo.net/uk/london)
http://photoguide.to/london/ (http://photoguide.to/london/)

Enjoy yourself!!

Mike
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: MarkL on November 14, 2008, 07:34:26 am
Quote from: johnbeardy
Actually, there's always (ie since 89-90) been a problem with security goons round there, and you are also forgetting the IRA bomb was in 96. That's when security and the appearance of security really tightened up in the area, and it coincided with much more CCTV so the goons could just watch you from their portakabins without spoiling their enjoyment of yesterday's Sun.

You get similar hassles all over London where apparently-public spaces such as the London Eye or the City Hall area are in fact privately owned. I just pick my moment for using the tripod, often when I'm ready to leave. With better high ISO performance, you have to wonder how long it will be before they try to interfere with anyone using a camera bigger than a cellphone.

So far canary wharf has been the only place I have been hassled anywhere in London and I pretty much expected to given security are always around. I think I got lucky at the London eye - City Hall has always been fine.

It does depend on the camera too I think, if I set up my LF camera I think they would freak out more than a dslr.
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: JMCP on November 14, 2008, 12:41:37 pm
Quote from: jjj
Heathrow airport - trashed/stolen bags and over zealous and jobsworthy officials who if your camera bag is 2mm too big they want it to go in the hold.    Can't remember if the stupid 1 bag rule is still in force at Heathrow - worth checking.


If only this was true, I have just returned from a couple of flights to/from Heathrow and there were far too many people taking two large bags on to the plane and causing the rest of us with one bag to walk up and down the aisle looking for somewhere to squeeze our bags, as per usual, the folks with the large and/or multiple bags try to rush on to the plane as quickly as possible to take make sure they get  their precious bags in the overhead lockers at the expense of the rest of us.


Cheers John
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: Lisa Nikodym on November 14, 2008, 04:59:38 pm
When I went through Heathrow a few months ago, they had abandoned the "one item only" rule, and it's now back to one regulation-size carry-one plus one "small item" (purse, laptop case, etc.).  However, they were very strictly enforcing the size limits (overzealously, in my case - the security person tried to confiscate my carry-on as too big, "showed" me it was too big by trying to put it into the template at an angle, and finally was persuaded to let me carry it on when my husband grabbed it from her and put it into the template himself to show it fit...).

Lisa
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: cricketer 1 on December 17, 2008, 09:35:50 pm
[quote name='Khurram' date='Nov 11 2008, 08:50 PM' post='236285']
I'll be leaving for London, England on Nov 20th and wanted to get some advice on photo oppertunities in London.

Is this too late for fall colors there???  If there is still some good color at this time are there any gardens anyone can recommend.

Not the best time due to overcast skies in November, but as a former resident of Greenwich there are some excellent photo opportunities such as Greenwich Park where the Greenwich Observatory at the top of the hill and Queen Anne House at the bottom is located.  The view from the top towards the Thames river can be fruitful and across the road from the Park Entrance fronting on to the Thames river, you have the very impressive Royal Navy College buildings with a beautiful painted ceiling, an old Navy/army hospital as well as the Cutty-Sark, the famous sail boat (in dry Dock), badly damaged by fire a few years ago, but I believe is now restored.  Also some nice pubs on the riverside for lunch and refreshments.  Greenwhich is located about 20 minutes by commuter train from Charing Cross station located just south of Trafalger Square, if memory serves.  The old Roman Road to Kent runs over, now under nearby Blackheath.
Enjoy your visit
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: yaya on December 18, 2008, 08:39:37 pm
Quote from: Khurram
I'll be leaving for London, England on Nov 20th and wanted to get some advice on photo oppertunities in London.

Is this too late for fall colors there???  If there is still some good color at this time are there any gardens anyone can recommend.

I'll be there for just over a week and will have the weekend before starting my assignment for adjusting to the time difference which is code for photography time:D

I may also stay in London or take the train to Paris for the following weekend.  So any advice for London or Paris would be appreciated, as well as what to expect weather wise.

Any advice of what to expect at Heathrow airport will also be appreciated.

Richard Bryant's London (http://www.amazon.co.uk/London-Deluxe-Richard-Bryant/dp/0847831531/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1229649668&sr=1-1) book is a must have for anyone interested in London's landscapes and cityscapes.

To appreciate the photos you should visit the exhibition at Somerset House (http://www.somersethouseprints.com/). Those big lambda prints are absolutely stunning.

Regent's Park and its neighbour Primrose Hill are among my favourite parks along with Hampstead Heath (and the beautiful Kenwood House at the top).

Kew Gardens this time of the year are amazing with all the Christmas decorations and activities - you just need to be lucky with the weather. They've also just released the 250th anniversary book (http://www.kewbooks.com/asps/ShowDetails.asp?id=786)

More on my list: Richmond Park (my favourite) Hampton Court, Kensington Gardens, Hide park, Holland Park, Trent Park, Alexandra Palace, Crystal Palace....it goes on and on really....

Yair
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: Slough on December 22, 2008, 02:39:20 pm
Far too late for Autumn colours. You might get some snow, which would be something in London. Unlikely though.

I suppose there is the usual stuff: Houses of Parliament, South Bank. the Gherkin, river Thames and bridges esp. that suspension one, the Tate Modern and wobbly bridge, Buck Palace, China Town, Trafalgar Square, Thames Barrage, Natural History Museum, Albert Memorial and Hyde Park, Rotten Row and horse guards, Golders Green and orthodox jews (in religious garb), various train stations but probably no tripods allowed, London Underground (but no tripods and no flash allowed), Greenwich Museum and various ships (HMS Belfast), Windsor Castle, and so on.

Sadly places like St. Pauls Cathedral ban photography inside.
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: ChrisJR on December 29, 2008, 10:08:46 am
What is the security like with camera equipment at Heathrow now? Is it possible to walk through security with let's say some lenses placed in a photographers vest?

My bag is easily within regulation size but I'm hoping to take a lot of camera equipment with me when I go on holiday for three weeks at the end of January.

Thanks
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: Khurram on December 30, 2008, 11:45:56 pm
Quote from: ChrisJR
What is the security like with camera equipment at Heathrow now? Is it possible to walk through security with let's say some lenses placed in a photographers vest?

My bag is easily within regulation size but I'm hoping to take a lot of camera equipment with me when I go on holiday for three weeks at the end of January.

Thanks

I didn't have any issues with the amount of equipment I had at the airport.  However, i was traveling business class, so was allowed two carry-on bags instead of one (not sure about other airlines, but Air Canada said that for flights to heathrow, business class allows one main item and one smaller laptop size bag, whereas regular/leisure/economy seats are allowed one carry-on item).  I had the following in a Think Tank Airport Addicted bag:
 -1 DIII & spare battery/cable release and other accessories
 - 24-105L
 - 16-35L II
 - 70-200 2.8L IS
 - 85 L II
 - 580 EX II
 - around 6 screw in polarizers/ND
 - Lee case with Lee/Singh-Ray ND grads
 - RRS BH 55 ballhead

In the other bag I had my laptop and some other accessories (i.e. RRS Pano kit), chargers, etc.

So I didn't encounter issues with the amount of equipment I had.  I had the new Think Tank Airport Addicted v.2, which is a pretty big bag, but when you don't have a laptop inside, it fits within the maximum size limits, I should add that I did get my bags weighed and while, I'm pretty sure that my TT bag was over weight, on the return flight from London they weighed the total weight of the carry-ons (which was within the limit, so it wasn't an issue.  If they had weighed the bags separately I may have had an issue.  Note, I'm not sure it is the norm to weigh the total carry-on weight, or if i just lucked out.
 
The only real issue (more of a scare) I had at the airport was that I had to take every lens out of my bag at the security checkpoint and put them in a tray.  The tray was pushed down the counter (which slides downward toward x-ray machine) and the staff really just pushed the tray down like like they would with clothing or shoes.  I can't ever begin to tell you how nervous I was when I saw my new 85LII rolling down in the tray.

Not sure if you can take equipment through in a vest, as they would probably ask you to put the lenses in a tray anyway.


I had more of an issue with security and police at some of the sites, as I was stopped by police along the Thames (across from Big Ben), because they were concerned about my tripod and the type of equipment I had - but they were pretty nice and after I provided my business card from work (not photo related), they were Ok.   They even told me to note their badge number and said that if I was stopped again, to just provide whoever approached me with their badge number.

However I ended up getting into a long argument with the security guards at Trafalgar just before sunset.  They told me that shooting with a tripod was not allowed and that there was a bylaw posted to that affect at the front of the square.  However, after going and reading the bylaw, and seeing that the only thing that was prohibited was commercial photography, I went and argued with them and they threatened to call the police, which I asked them to do.  I was then told to watch my language, to which my reply was if they had a problem with my N. American english (as at no time did i use bad language or yell at them).  When i asked the security guards to provide me with their identification and names they refused, and at this point one of them walked away (the more polite one), however despite arguing with the other one for about 10 minutes he wouldn't budge or provide mew with his name or Id.  By that time the sunset was pretty much done and the reflections of the sky and monuments in the rain puddles that I was shooting, were pretty much gone.  I was so pissed off that I never even bothered shooting during my last three days in london.  Unless I have to go for work again, i doubt if I'll go back.  If shot in US & Canadian locations as well as Paris and have never been hassled as much as i have been in London, and the hassles just take the entire enjoyment out of taking photos.
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: Quentin on December 31, 2008, 06:00:15 am
Quote from: Khurram
I was so pissed off that I never even bothered shooting during my last three days in london.  Unless I have to go for work again, i doubt if I'll go back.  If shot in US & Canadian locations as well as Paris and have never been hassled as much as i have been in London, and the hassles just take the entire enjoyment out of taking photos.

I agree that often its the security guards and similar, not the Police, who can cause the biggest headache for photographers, probably because they are "only following orders" and have less individual discretion or less training.

However, pause for a moment and consider the terrible level or terrorism that London has suffered over many years and one then has a little more sympathy for security.

Quentin
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: julian_love on December 31, 2008, 08:15:33 am
Quote from: Quentin
However, pause for a moment and consider the terrible level or terrorism that London has suffered over many years and one then has a little more sympathy for security.
Quentin

When have terrorists ever used photography as a part of their plans? I live in London and it irritates me how frequently I get hassled when photographing. Sometimes it's a simple check by police as Khurram had outside the houses of parliament, but at other times it is the more obnoxious kind as he experienced at Trafalgar Square. The argument that it is in the interests of 'security' is ridiculous....how many terrorists survey their subjects with a high end SLR on a tripod in broad daylight?

Julian
Title: London, England at the end of April
Post by: Slough on January 19, 2009, 06:15:58 am
Quote from: Quentin
I agree that often its the security guards and similar, not the Police, who can cause the biggest headache for photographers, probably because they are "only following orders" and have less individual discretion or less training.

However, pause for a moment and consider the terrible level or terrorism that London has suffered over many years and one then has a little more sympathy for security.

Quentin

Sure, but a terrorist is more likely to use a discrete camera, maybe in a phone. Google maps are probably more useful. Unfortunately it is all about not thinking. We have an atmosphere of hysteria, with a very real threat, but an unthinking attitude that is used to justify anything. The MP who had his camera confiscated by the police, and the images wiped, at a Labour conference, was told it was done under anti-terrorism legislation. And the old man who was wrestled to the ground and arrested at the same conference was a 'victim' of the same legislation which was used to suppress dissent.

I was stopped and searched a few times in Windsor Great Park. Reasonable you might think. Except that I was only searched when I walked on a particular lawn near where a police car is regularly parked. Numerous times when I walked around elsewhere, I was not stopped. I could have scaled a fence and got in to the main area with ease. (Actually the security is pretty good in the sensitive areas.)