Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: siejones on October 28, 2008, 03:25:28 am

Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: siejones on October 28, 2008, 03:25:28 am
Looks like Ken Rockwell has picked up on the "You got to be kidding" article and is using it too further emphasis his point that "the camera does not matter" in his review of the G10

From the what’s new section under “G10” heading Quote:

"A guy in Canada posted that he can't see much difference between the G10 and a 39MP Hasselblad, but he was only looking at 13x19" (30x50cm) inkjet prints. Of course you can't see anything with small amateur prints; I've been telling you all along (and as he just confirmed again), there is no difference between a $150 and a $5,000 camera, and there is no difference between a $25 and a $5,000 camera, and there is no difference between a $5 film camera and a $3,200 digital camera. A pro making large (3 feet or 1m wide) prints would see differences, but amateurs making small 13x19" inkjets won't."

It's his usual controversial tactics to get himself noticed again no doubt. Will Michael respond to the provocation?
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: Slough on October 28, 2008, 07:10:17 am
Isn't it best just to ignore idiots like Rockwell and not given them free publicity and a boost to their Google rating?

I think he is sore about MR laying into him not so long ago. I ignore Ken's rants, and exaggerated nonsense.
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: Moynihan on October 28, 2008, 07:14:11 am
Quote from: siejones
...."A guy in Canada posted that he can't see much difference between the G10 and a 39MP Hasselblad, .... Of course you can't see anything with small amateur prints.....Will Michael respond to the provocation?

Well, I am sure there is more than one guy in Canada. A perhaps more than one has shot with those two cameras.  How do we even know he means Michael?  
Big prints = Pro    small prints = amateur. Geeeez. Guess the guy has never heard of Edward Weston.

I would think there is no need to respond. I mean, it is not a comment by a serious photographer, its a comment by Ken Rockwell.
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: Mike W on October 28, 2008, 07:47:16 am
Since when is 13" x 19" small?
4"x5" is a small print to me....
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: michael on October 28, 2008, 08:03:24 am
I'm trying to think of something pithy to say by way of rejoinder, but then I'd probably get pithed off.

Oh, forget it.

Michael

PS: If I really want to see stupid people saying asinine things I just need to watch one of the US presidential candidates make a speech.

PPS: I can also see the USA from my back yard.
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: jjj on October 28, 2008, 08:32:46 am
Not sure why anyone gets wound up by Mr Rockwell when he posts this on his site.

"This is my personal website. I do it all by myself. I'm just one guy with a computer who likes to take pictures. I have the playful, immature and creative, trouble-making mind of a seven-year-old, so read accordingly.

This site is purely my personal speech and opinion, and a way for me to goof around.

While often inspired by actual products and events, just like any other good news organization, I like to make things up and stretch the truth if they make an article more fun. In the case of new products, rumors and just plain silly stuff, it's all pretend. If you lack a good BS detector, please treat this entire site as a work of fiction."

I only update things as I discover errors. I offer no warrantees of any kind, except that there are many deliberate gaffes, practical jokes and downright foolish and made-up things lurking. While this site is mostly accurate, it is neither legally binding nor guaranteed. The only thing I do guarantee is that there is plenty of stuff I simply make up out of thin air, as does The Onion.
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: michael on October 28, 2008, 09:33:15 am
And therein lies the danger.

It's like when someone says something hurtful, and then when challenged says – "Oh, I was just kidding". Not!

The Internet is a dangerous place, for adults as well as children. When someone mounts their soapbox, provides some useful information but then surrounds it with trash talk, people are easily mislead.

Michael

Wait! Is that the USA I see from my backyard?



Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: dalethorn on October 28, 2008, 09:52:21 am
Quote from: michael
.....When someone mounts their soapbox, provides some useful information but then surrounds it with trash talk, people are easily mislead.....
I went to Rockwell's site a couple of times expecting to find more of the funny, outrageous material he allegedly propagates, but it was disappointing. If you're looking for comic relief, it's not a good site, because there's no depth to the material. Unfortunately there's not much depth in anything else there either, which must account for the controversy - out of the humdrum of a moribund blogsite comes an outrageous statement or two, and it flashes like lightning across the Web. I don't get it, and I guess I never will.
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: siejones on October 28, 2008, 11:31:59 am
Quote from: michael
And therein lies the danger.

It's like when someone says something hurtful, and then when challenged says – "Oh, I was just kidding". Not!

The Internet is a dangerous place, for adults as well as children. When someone mounts their soapbox, provides some useful information but then surrounds it with trash talk, people are easily mislead.

Michael

Wait! Is that the USA I see from my backyard?

Exactly! Admitting your an idiot doesn't excuse you from being one
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: Tony Beach on October 28, 2008, 11:35:11 am
Quote from: michael
PS: If I really want to see stupid people saying asinine things I just need to watch one of the US presidential candidates make a speech.


Which one?
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: jasonrandolph on October 28, 2008, 11:47:54 am
"A pro making large (3 feet or 1m wide) prints would see differences, but amateurs making small 13x19" inkjets won't."

Will someone please tell Rockwell that big prints do not make someone a pro, as he should know VERY well...
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: Plekto on October 28, 2008, 02:07:50 pm
Idiot boy is at it again.

And this coming from one of the most hardcore techno-geeks out there.  His equipment list is a gear-head's wish list of large format tools and lenses.  To him, maybe, it's all budget consumer crap and all looks the same, but he's full of it.  I can tell differences between a pocket camera and a good camera on a 4*6 print, let alone anything larger.  And his claims about a $5 film camera being as good as digital... well, yeah I guess, IF you have a $1000 slide scanner and a few hundred dollars in software.  Oops.  forgot that in the cost comparison...

He's a bit like our current President.  He's just not bright enough to realize how much he truly doesn't know.  

But he's fun to read.  Heh.  It's like the tabloids you get at the checkout, just for photographers.
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: Robert Roaldi on October 28, 2008, 03:12:53 pm
Quote from: Plekto
He's just not bright enough to realize how much he truly doesn't know.

As a quick aside, people have actually studied this phenomenon. I wrote a tongue-in-cheek blog piece about it here (http://roberts-rants.blogspot.com/2008/01/duh.html).
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: jjj on October 28, 2008, 04:11:23 pm
Quote from: siejones
Exactly! Admitting your an idiot doesn't excuse you from being one
But if you are an idiot, then surely you cannot not be one.
But as he actually quite accurately points out "While often inspired by actual products and events, just like any other good news organization, I like to make things up and stretch the truth if they make an article more fun.." My view exactly of much of our so called news. At least he admits to the BS.
And he is probably entertained and maybe even made richer, by the constant references on here and subsequent visits to his site.
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: dalethorn on October 28, 2008, 05:56:45 pm
Quote from: jjj
.....At least he admits to the BS.
And he is probably entertained and maybe even made richer, by the constant references on here and subsequent visits to his site.
I wonder if this is like a Howard Stern promo, where the actual content is dull and repetitious, but by having people inject his name over and over into other venues, the shock-jock gains reputation capital without having to pay for it.
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: Wayne Fox on October 28, 2008, 06:28:43 pm
Quote from: jjj
Not sure why anyone gets wound up by Mr Rockwell when he posts this on his site.

"This is my personal website. I do it all by myself. I'm just one guy with a computer who likes to take pictures. I have the playful, immature and creative, trouble-making mind of a seven-year-old, so read accordingly.

This site is purely my personal speech and opinion, and a way for me to goof around.

While often inspired by actual products and events, just like any other good news organization, I like to make things up and stretch the truth if they make an article more fun. In the case of new products, rumors and just plain silly stuff, it's all pretend. If you lack a good BS detector, please treat this entire site as a work of fiction."

I only update things as I discover errors. I offer no warrantees of any kind, except that there are many deliberate gaffes, practical jokes and downright foolish and made-up things lurking. While this site is mostly accurate, it is neither legally binding nor guaranteed. The only thing I do guarantee is that there is plenty of stuff I simply make up out of thin air, as does The Onion.


All he is doing is pre-creating an "excuse" - a disclaimer. Truth be told I think he really does believe what he writes, because they don't seem to make any sense in the context of their disclaimer.

If this lame excuse is really true, then he needs to precede every individual article with it, because they come across as serious arguments, and most reading them won't ever see this disclaimer.

(and I'm hating myself for even taking time to respond in a thread about this guy ...)
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: The View on October 29, 2008, 03:00:42 am
Ken Rockwell must love this forum.

Lots of free advertising for him.

He may even join and post a thread against himself to boost his google ratings.



Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: David Anderson on October 29, 2008, 05:32:38 am
Sorry, I don't get that site, I think most people could make a higher quality picture with a box of crayons.
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: Geoff Wittig on October 29, 2008, 07:20:52 am
[quote name='michael' date='Oct 28 2008, 12:03 PM' post='232512']


Michael

PS: If I really want to see stupid people saying asinine things I just need to watch one of the US presidential candidates make a speech.


Hrmph.
As opposed to the brilliantly eloquent Mr. Harper?
Don't get me wrong, it's evident to any sentient being that George W. Bush is a village idiot, Palin a complete bubblehead and McCain a thin-skinned angry man. But that's a little tacky.
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: dalethorn on October 29, 2008, 07:52:23 am
Quote from: Geoff Wittig
.....and McCain a thin-skinned angry man. But that's a little tacky.
Interesting that in all of the USA, the self-proclaimed greatest land on Earth, the top 2 people for president include a man mentally unbalanced as a result of torture in a wartime POW prison. This is the best we can do? If it is, then the likes of Rockwell should be fronting the media that promote the likes of McCain. Oops......
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: daws on October 29, 2008, 07:55:03 am
Quote from: siejones
"A guy in Canada posted that he can't see much difference between the G10 and a 39MP Hasselblad, but he was only looking at 13x19" (30x50cm) inkjet prints.

See? It's those Guys In Canada again. First they shrink our dollars, now our Hassys are doorstops. When will the cruelty end?

P.S. I could see Canada from my back yard in California, if I had something longer than this miserable 200mm.

P.P.S. If that isn't bad enough, Canada's just a well-lofted spitwad across the river from Alaska, but will those GIC's lift a finger to save us from Palin? Hah! Well, while you're up there laughing, we're down here running out of moose. It isn't fair.






Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: CJL on October 29, 2008, 07:58:34 am
Quote from: jasonrandolph
"A pro making large (3 feet or 1m wide) prints would see differences, but amateurs making small 13x19" inkjets won't."

Will someone please tell Rockwell that big prints do not make someone a pro, as he should know VERY well...


How would Ken know?

Sorry, but winning a photo contest in your local newspaper (Ken's only real claim to fame, several years ago) does not make someone a professional photographer.  
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: Slough on October 29, 2008, 09:18:53 am
Quote from: dalethorn
Interesting that in all of the USA, the self-proclaimed greatest land on Earth, the top 2 people for president include a man mentally unbalanced as a result of torture in a wartime POW prison. This is the best we can do? If it is, then the likes of Rockwell should be fronting the media that promote the likes of McCain. Oops......

I'm always astonished that a country as great as America can elect someone like George Bush who created a fiasco in Iraq (no weapons of mass destruction, no Al-Qaieda connection), a mess in Afghanistan (it may well fall to the Taliban and Al-Qaieda), and a completely screwed up world economy (insufficient regulation and sub-prime scandals). Obama looks far too sane. You'll get Oven Chips and Potty Palin, you'll see.

Anyway, there is a saying, namely "Don't argue with a fool". Surely commenting on a web site created by someone who is not very bright falls into that category, no?
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: Craig Arnold on October 29, 2008, 09:38:12 am
Quote from: Slough
I'm always astonished that a country as great as America can elect someone like George Bush who created a fiasco in Iraq (no weapons of mass destruction, no Al-Qaieda connection), a mess in Afghanistan (it may well fall to the Taliban and Al-Qaieda), and a completely screwed up world economy (insufficient regulation and sub-prime scandals). Obama looks far too sane. You'll get Oven Chips and Potty Palin, you'll see.

The sub-prime crisis was caused by Bush???? You need to do a bit of research old chap. Look up Senator Christopher Dodd and Congressman Barney Frank, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac. Look up the history of the Bills they have helped push through Congress, and which way Obama voted. Also look into how Bush positioned himself on the issue. No the world economy has been brought to its knees by Obama's close friends.

The thing that consistently amazes me about the US presidential elections is how they manage to find (batting 3 for 3 here) such terrible candidates in the first place. George Bush is terrible and a complete idiot, but it's easy to overlook the fact that Gore and Kerry were so abysmal that the people got the better candidate elected.

And now the world has to watch another impending train wreck with Obama on the one hand (who has you hoping that for the 3rd election in a row that the Americans hold their noses and vote Republican again) except that McCain might die and leave Sarah Palin as the most powerful person in the world. OMFG!
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: barryfitzgerald on October 29, 2008, 10:57:14 am
Not sure it's wise to get into politics on a photo board, my only comment will be I feel both candidates are just as loathsome as each other, and I would not be likely to trust either to post a letter in a mailbox, let alone run a country. One isn't such a great speaker, but appears more genuine, the other one is very good on stage, has possibly better policies in some cases,  but is clearly deeply in love with himself. But neither do much for me..

Back to photography, Ken Rockwell clearly writes for maximum impact, and I assume he earns an income off of his site..I honestly don't take everything I read there as a photographic reference manual, just his sometimes OTT view, saying that, he does say some sensible things, and some not so great ones too. The same goes for this site, it's a more serious affair, but I tend to make my own mind up on certain areas, which I would hope most people would too.

I suspect if both met, they would get along just great. Maybe Michael should invite Ken up for a chat, and a nice cup of tea.. ;-)
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: Slough on October 29, 2008, 11:22:52 am
Quote from: barryfitzgerald
I suspect if both met, they would get along just great. Maybe Michael should invite Ken up for a chat, and a nice cup of tea.. ;-)

I look forward to the LL video of this meeting ...
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: Tony Beach on October 29, 2008, 12:15:22 pm
Quote from: peripatetic
The sub-prime crisis was caused by Bush???? You need to do a bit of research old chap. Look up Senator Christopher Dodd and Congressman Barney Frank, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac. Look up the history of the Bills they have helped push through Congress, and which way Obama voted. Also look into how Bush positioned himself on the issue. No the world economy has been brought to its knees by Obama's close friends.

The thing that consistently amazes me about the US presidential elections is how they manage to find (batting 3 for 3 here) such terrible candidates in the first place. George Bush is terrible and a complete idiot, but it's easy to overlook the fact that Gore and Kerry were so abysmal that the people got the better candidate elected.

And now the world has to watch another impending train wreck with Obama on the one hand (who has you hoping that for the 3rd election in a row that the Americans hold their noses and vote Republican again) except that McCain might die and leave Sarah Palin as the most powerful person in the world. OMFG!

I think you need to do a lot of research (not a "bit") if you think the primary cause of the financial meltdown is Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.  Fannie Mae bought some of the bonds backed by bad mortgages, but so did a lot of others (including the Chinese and the British).

Al Gore was worse than George Bush?  I think that's comically wrongheaded, and I didn't vote for either of them.  No, I'm not going to vote for either of the two major party candidates again this year, but I will say that Obama is clearly the better candidate inasmuch as he ran the better campaign.  Also, Obama is an impressive figure who understands international relations (that's what he majored in at Columbia University), who is a professor of constitutional law, and who has impressed the likes of Colin Powell and Warren Buffet (possibly the next Secretary of Treasury in an Obama administration).

People bashed FDR and still do, but for all his faults his adoption of Keynsian economics created what we would consider the middle class.  The Friedman economics gang has nearly destroyed the middle class, but it has been a farce because the Republicans apply some of Keyne's economic principles too, it's just that they target the benefits to the rich.  I find it laughable that there are so many who want four more years of extremist Republicanism in spite of the abundant evidence that it has completely failed to deliver a better life to most Americans.  As FDR famously said " We have nothing to fear but fear itself", and now it appears that all the Republicans have left in their arsenal is fear.
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: Slough on October 29, 2008, 01:01:20 pm
Quote from: peripatetic
The sub-prime crisis was caused by Bush???? You need to do a bit of research old chap. Look up Senator Christopher Dodd and Congressman Barney Frank, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac. Look up the history of the Bills they have helped push through Congress, and which way Obama voted. Also look into how Bush positioned himself on the issue. No the world economy has been brought to its knees by Obama's close friends.

The cause was deregulation of financial markets to a degree that was reckless which occured on Bush Junior's watch. It has been many years in the baking.
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: CJL on October 29, 2008, 01:18:43 pm
Quote from: Slough
The cause was deregulation of financial markets to a degree that was reckless which occured on Bush Junior's watch. It has been many years in the baking.

Things could be worse... you could live in a country that just re-elected an idiot who idolizes the likes of George W. Bush and John Howard.  
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on October 29, 2008, 04:27:06 pm
One thing we should all be able to agree on, whatever our political inclinations or national origins: Ken Rockwell makes even less sense than any of the politicians/candidates that have been mentioned in this thread.  
Title: Ken Rockwell strikes again! round 2
Post by: michael on October 29, 2008, 06:11:22 pm
Before someone calls Rockwell the Sarah Palin of photography, let's drop the political debate.

Michael