Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Camera Raw Q&A => Topic started by: jrgoldman9 on October 23, 2008, 03:19:19 pm
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I am hearing lots of contradictory information on the forums about raw files on the G10. My CS3 will not open them nor will ACR or LR2.
Am I missing something or is there a plan for the G10 files in the near future What is doubly confusing is that Reichman says he processed the files in PS after opening them in a non Canon application.
Help Please
Cheers, Jay
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No currently available Adobe app can open G10 files.
I was using a beta program that is not currently available.
Michael
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I am hearing lots of contradictory information on the forums about raw files on the G10. My CS3 will not open them nor will ACR or LR2.
Am I missing something or is there a plan for the G10 files in the near future What is doubly confusing is that Reichman says he processed the files in PS after opening them in a non Canon application.
Help Please
Cheers, Jay
Note however that the G10 is supported by and does include Canon's DPP software, which is a decent RAW processor. This is a change from the G9 which really does require a 3rd party RAW processor for good results, since there is no support in DPP. The software Canon supplies for G9 raw files is very poor.
I think it is save to assume, based on past experience, that Adobe will include G10 support at some point in the near future, but using DPP in the meantime can provide very good files.
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Canon put RAW into the G9 then didn't support it in DPP? So they put a proprietory format in a camera with the understanding that the only way to actually open the files is for a 3rd party company to reverse engineer the file!
Incredible.
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Two possibilities for this, Ben. (1) They didn't feel market demand would be high enough for shooting RAW to bother modifying DPP to support it; i.e., they didn't want to devote engineering and testing resources from the DPP team to support the G9. I find this unlikely since the G9 raw format is a CR2 and internally quite similar to ones from recent DSLRs. Or, (2) they didn't want users to be able to disable certain aspects of raw image processing, such as noise reduction, sharpening, etc.
Canon is not the only one to do this, BTW. Nikon's recent P6000 is interesting because it has a NRW file format, which ... err, is actually an uncompressed NEF inside (so the raw files are actually a whopping 20+ MB for a 13.4 MP camera compared to ~15 MB for a 14.6 MP lossless compressed raw file from a G10). But you can't use Capture NX to process the files. You can use View NX, but not to adjust any settings (e.g., you can't adjust noise reduction).
I am guessing that Canon feels comfortable making DPP available for the G10 because they are more comfortable with its raw image quality compared to the G9.
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Canon put RAW into the G9 then didn't support it in DPP? So they put a proprietory format in a camera with the understanding that the only way to actually open the files is for a 3rd party company to reverse engineer the file!
Incredible.
G9 RAW files are not supported in DPP, but you can process them using Canon's ImageBrowser software, which will open a G9 file as a "RAW Image Task". So Canon did provide a solution with the camera, but it's pretty weak compared to DPP or other professional Level RAW processors, which means for serious work a 3rd party RAW processor is required.
I assume they realized the target market for the G10 has changed pretty dramatically, as a lot of advanced amateurs and pros adopted the G9 as an easy to carry option. I think the addition of RAW support created a noticeable uptick in units sold because of this, so it made sense to support it with DPP instead of ImageBrowser. This also probably simplified development costs, since only one of the programs needed to handle RAW files.
of course, it's always fun to try and second guess companies like Canon. I was just sitting here thinking the real truth may be far simpler ... some top executive at Canon got ticked off because he/she couldn't open his/her RAW files in DPP, but could in ACR, resulting in a scathing memo sent to the appropriate department. Who knows how big companies like this really work.
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of course, it's always fun to try and second guess companies like Canon. I was just sitting here thinking the real truth may be far simpler ... some top executive at Canon got ticked off because he/she couldn't open his/her RAW files in DPP, but could in ACR, resulting in a scathing memo sent to the appropriate department. Who knows how big companies like this really work.
The simple answer is probably the real one...
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I noticed DxO is supporting the G9 RAW so I suppose in the future they will support G10 RAW
Marc
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I noticed DxO is supporting the G9 RAW so I suppose in the future they will support G10 RAW
Marc
I sure hope so! I've just gotten a G10, and DxO is mt main raw converter. Using DPP for the G10 files isn't much fun.
Eric
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Note however that the G10 is supported by and does include Canon's DPP software, which is a decent RAW processor. This is a change from the G9 which really does require a 3rd party RAW processor for good results, since there is no support in DPP. The software Canon supplies for G9 raw files is very poor.
I think it is save to assume, based on past experience, that Adobe will include G10 support at some point in the near future, but using DPP in the meantime can provide very good files.
Wayne,
I tested DPP vs. ACR on a jpeg file. DPP came out as a pretty crummy processor. I also tried DPP on a raw file and I was not impressed at all So, I have to decide whether to keep the G10, shoot dual capture and wait for good processor for the raw files or return the G10 for now.
My problem is that I usually shoot dual capture with B&W jpegs and now I can't see the B&W composition right in the camera. Oh well. there is always something that is disappointing.
Jay
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I noticed DxO is supporting the G9 RAW so I suppose in the future they will support G10 RAW
Marc
Well, it took them until v 5.3, which was released a couple of days ago, to support the G9, just in time for the release of the G10. I wouldn't hold my breath!
I wonder what Michael's beta programme was? Probably under NDA........
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G10 owners should relax. It would be very long till there's good raw support from at last one company.
Michael
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It would be very long till there's good raw support from at last one company.
Michael
Does that sentence make sense or am I being very slow?
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I think "would", in this case, means "won't".
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Hi
i have just bought a G10 (import from the USA). The enclosed software is DPP 3.5 which installs okay on my Macpro (10.5) but DPP will not open the raw files - it just hangs. Do I have to wait until Apple add the G10 to their raw processing engine or am I doing something wrong.
Any help on this subject would be very much appreciated.
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Hi
i have just bought a G10 (import from the USA). The enclosed software is DPP 3.5 which installs okay on my Macpro (10.5) but DPP will not open the raw files - it just hangs. Do I have to wait until Apple add the G10 to their raw processing engine or am I doing something wrong.
Any help on this subject would be very much appreciated.
My G10 came with DPP 3.5.0.0 which installed just fine on my Imac with OSX 10.5.5. Images open and can be converted from Raw and saved without problems. You could try re-installing. Sorry I can't offer more help, other than to let you know DPP will work on a Mac, so it is worthwhile trying to find the problem. FWIW, the DPP software isn't very good even when it works.
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DNG
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Hi
Thank you for that. Very helpful as I wasn't sure if the problem was a function of my OS or the application. I had already reinstalled it once but this time I threw out ALL of the Canon preferences and application support in both the library and user folders and this time it worked after a re-install.
David
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For those of you who have the G10 and have used it with DPP 3, does DPP automatically determine focusing distance and focal length to precisely correct for distortion, if you want it to? Or do you need to manually adjust sliders, or do other manual adjustments, to determine the appropriate amount/type of distortion correction? I'll probably buy the camera now if DPP does distortion correction automatically, but if it's manual, and hence in my view less accurate (because manual adjustments invite user error), then I may hold off until it's support by DXO Optics. Thanks for the help.
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DNG
So if I import into Lightroom using the convert to DNG option, I'll be able to then edit the DNG file in LR? (or PS?) Surely that isn't optimal as the conversion to DNG pre-supposes a knowledge of the way the RAW file has been constructed? But if not optimal, good enough until ACR is updated?
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G10 owners should relax. It would be very long till there's good raw support from at last one company.
Michael
I hope this is not true, Michael. I would hope that it would not be very long till there's good raw support. (Sorry! Couldn't resist ).
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wont won't won't
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wont won't won't
Now write it 500 times on the blackboard and I won't (would?) send you to the principal's office.
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So if I import into Lightroom using the convert to DNG option, I'll be able to then edit the DNG file in LR? (or PS?) Surely that isn't optimal as the conversion to DNG pre-supposes a knowledge of the way the RAW file has been constructed? But if not optimal, good enough until ACR is updated?
Just tried importing as a DNG into Lightroom 2 and it does not work.
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David,
The G10 is not supported yet in any Adobe app.
Rich
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I sure hope so! I've just gotten a G10, and DxO is mt main raw converter. Using DPP for the G10 files isn't much fun.
Eric
Fill out the DxO suggestion form http://www.dxo.com/intl/photo/support/modu...pb_availability (http://www.dxo.com/intl/photo/support/modules/availability/pb_availability)
Marc
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Hi
i have just bought a G10 (import from the USA). The enclosed software is DPP 3.5 which installs okay on my Macpro (10.5) but DPP will not open the raw files - it just hangs. Do I have to wait until Apple add the G10 to their raw processing engine or am I doing something wrong.
Any help on this subject would be very much appreciated.
No, Apple support for the G10 would only apply to Apple software, such as iPhoto, Aperture.
DPP hanging indicates you have some other type of problem.
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Fill out the DxO suggestion form http://www.dxo.com/intl/photo/support/modu...pb_availability (http://www.dxo.com/intl/photo/support/modules/availability/pb_availability)
Marc
Thanks, Marc. I just filled out a request.
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ACR 5.2 and DNG with G10 support - at last! Farewell, DPP I won't miss you at all.
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/tha...amp;fileID=3935 (http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/thankyou.jsp?ftpID=4220&fileID=3935)
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/tha...amp;fileID=3935 (http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/thankyou.jsp?ftpID=4220&fileID=3935)
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ACR 5.2 and DNG with G10 support - at last! Farewell, DPP I won't miss you at all...
Unfortunately, not that simple... ACR is significantly noisier than DPP (at least for G10 files). So far my workflow is to de-noise in DPP and then export as TIFF to continue adjustments in Lightroom.
P.S. I opened a new thread in this forum, with examples of the above statement, [a href=\'index.php?act=findpost&pid=29894\']here[/a].
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Unfortunately, not that simple... ACR is significantly noisier than DPP (at least for G10 files). So far my workflow is to de-noise in DPP and then export as TIFF to continue adjustments in Lightroom.
Thats subjective. I use ACR's noise reduction, and it works well for me.
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Because my interest in the G10 is heavily weighted toward low light shooting, I took a set of test shots at the local dealer's at ISOs from 100 to 1600. Using the DNG converter, I imported them into Lightroom, and was totally taken aback at how much noise I'm seeing, even at 200. Here's a link to the DNG file: IMG_0014.dng (http://daystarvisions.com/Pix/Misc/IMG_0014.dng).
Based on Wayne Fox's careful conversions (http://web.me.com/waynefox/G9_10/G9_vs_G10_Noise.html) using DPP with 0 NR, it seems to me that either
- DPP is applying a pretty significant amount of NR even when NR is supposedly off, or
- DNG somehow amplifies noise, or
- importing DNG into Lightroom somehow side-steps it's own level 0 NR.
Notice that this shot is if anything slightly over-exposed, so it's not is if under-exposure is responsible for excess noise.
I'd appreciate any input as to whether there's something amiss with my test shot, and if not, as to what's going on here. There seems to be two camps on this issue: one that even 200 ISO is seriously noisy and one that 400 is quite usable. Based on what I'm seeing, I'd have to side with the first camp.
I can post other test shot DNGs, or original CR2s, if wanted.
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importing DNG into Lightroom somehow side-steps it's own level 0 NR.
Can't say whether that's all you are seeing, but if LR doesn't recognize a camera (and at the moment, it won't recognize a G10), it is very conservative about its default settings. So its quite possible that NR is set quite low.
Sandy
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Yes, DPP applies a noticeable amount of baseline noise reduction even with sliders set to zero.