Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: jing q on October 14, 2008, 02:30:03 pm
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Sigh, looks like the Macbook Pros are still heavy
5.5 pounds (2.49 kg)1
Macbooks don't have Firewire anymore.
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I know, odd that no firewire. Was going to get one (waiting for the news) but now... guess it'll be pro. Seems like a waste though.
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was hoping for a 13 inch Pro. lugging a frigging 15 incher around just to tether is a pain in the ass.
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Yeah, unnecessary. Not sure what I'm going to do now.
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I know, odd that no firewire. Was going to get one (waiting for the news) but now... guess it'll be pro. Seems like a waste though.
Does the 13" MacBook have an Express slot? If so can you use a Firewire Express card??
Steve
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how does everyone feel about the new Glass screen?
also ONE fw 800 Only for the MBP?!!
ma
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Only a glossy screen, no option for a matte. The Macbook is IMO downgraded in spec's and upgraded in price. I don't get this move.
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how in heck can you connect a digital back that requires a FW 400 port? these new mac book pros have only FW 800.
rh
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WTF Apple? on so many levels...
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how in heck can you connect a digital back that requires a FW 400 port? these new mac book pros have only FW 800.
rh
there are 800 to 400 cables...those should work.
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WTF Apple? on so many levels...
Yeah, down from 3 USB's, FW400 & 800 to only 2 USB's & an FW800
?????
Glad I've got a couple of 'old' ones.
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So has something changed that allows a boot volume to work from USB 2.0? I still run 10.4.11 on all machines, so firewire is a must and I use it all the time on my Macbook. Sucks no firewire for the new one.
I do like the new 24" LED cinema display but why the constant need to use new connector ports. I hope it can connect via an adapter to DVI ports on G5 and Mac Pro towers.
New display is a consumer monitor for too much money. Like the ACD sucks, this does too. Money better spent elsewhere.
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This might suit you for a 13" option: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Modbook (http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Modbook)
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how in heck can you connect a digital back that requires a FW 400 port? these new mac book pros have only FW 800.
rh
A simple $8 gender adapter:
(http://www.1394store.com/eshop/assets/product_images/connector_69.jpg)
http://www.1394store.com/eshop/product.asp...mp;pf%5Fid=1651 (http://www.1394store.com/eshop/product.asp?dept%5Fid=65&pf%5Fid=1651)
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The glass screens are terrible. I once tried using an iMac on a set outdoors in the sun and even with a rigged foamcore shade plus a few floppies behind me, I could see the reflections of people standing around the screen more than I could see the actual photos.
Apple has jumped the shark.
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A simple $8 gender adapter:
Great.
Another connection to add into the chain to go wobbly or get constantly pulled out.
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how does everyone feel about the new Glass screen?
also ONE fw 800 Only for the MBP?!!
ma
Been using the glossy screen option for a long time ... I prefer it. Took me a week or two to get used to it, but the glossy screen is far more useful in far more places and lighting conditions while traveling.
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Great.
Another connection to add into the chain to go wobbly or get constantly pulled out.
You don't need the extra adapter. Just get an 800 to 400 cable. The Firewire 800 port supports both 800 and 400, but you'll need the 400 connector on one end of the cable.
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You don't need the extra adapter. Just get an 800 to 400 cable. The Firewire 800 port supports both 800 and 400, but you'll need the 400 connector on one end of the cable.
My suggestion is for those who already own many FW400 to FW400 cables.
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Been using the glossy screen option for a long time ... I prefer it. Took me a week or two to get used to it, but the glossy screen is far more useful in far more places and lighting conditions while traveling.
Would like to know how a glossy screen is far more useful, and under what conditions?
Thank you.
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I'm sort of happy, the lack of FW on the macbook and the MBP being bigger than I like means I can't buy either of the new laptops. Saves me some money. Same thing with all the new backs and cameras. I went into fotocare the other day and picked them all up, HY6 was plasticky and the viewfinder was horribly ugly. The H2 was ugly as ever, massive shutter slap and plasticky grip. The new afd 3 has got a bigger grip which is just too big to be comfortable and I have big hands. The new backs don't seem to be much use unless your shooting billboards that people are going to walk right up to for everything else your going to be downresing a whole lot. It all adds up to me saving myself a lot of money with my P21 and AFD.
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Hey Patrick :
Totally agree - This was not a good move by Apple - They did not even spare the Cinema Displays from the Glossy Screens - Quite upsetting
The glass screens are terrible. I once tried using an iMac on a set outdoors in the sun and even with a rigged foamcore shade plus a few floppies behind me, I could see the reflections of people standing around the screen more than I could see the actual photos.
Apple has jumped the shark.
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has anyone used a FW800 with a Phase back? I know they have cables with 800 on one end and 400 on the other, so it could be the solution... at least for the 15inch, but I agree that there is a big point in having a small portable for field tethered photography... something like an iPhone with FW !
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So has something changed that allows a boot volume to work from USB 2.0? I still run 10.4.11 on all machines, so firewire is a must and I use it all the time on my Macbook.
Intel powered Macs have been able to boot from USB 2.0 drives since they were first sold. You'll need to be sure the disk is partitioned as a Mac disk with the GUID option set, but it does work fine. I do agree that the absence of Firewire in the new MacBooks is a disappointment.
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I'm sort of happy, the lack of FW on the macbook and the MBP being bigger than I like means I can't buy either of the new laptops. Saves me some money. Same thing with all the new backs and cameras. I went into fotocare the other day and picked them all up, HY6 was plasticky and the viewfinder was horribly ugly. The H2 was ugly as ever, massive shutter slap and plasticky grip. The new afd 3 has got a bigger grip which is just too big to be comfortable and I have big hands. The new backs don't seem to be much use unless your shooting billboards that people are going to walk right up to for everything else your going to be downresing a whole lot. It all adds up to me saving myself a lot of money with my P21 and AFD.
agreed - i was worried about the announcement, but now no worries...
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Yeah its crap, Ive been waiting too. Apple has forgotten about their original customers ( pro users) and are only trying to meet trendy consumer wants. Its absurd that the mbp only has 1 fw port, its also mind boggling that there is no matte option... who the hell do they think their pro base is? the glossy displays always profile cold and do not calibrate near as well ( or are as stable imo) Not to mention they show dust 10x worse and they reflect everything.
The 24 inch display... another mind boggler. $900 for a big glossy consumer level display? and no fire wire hub???? Oh well its a good excuse for me to buy a high end eizo next year
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Oh well its a good excuse for me to buy a high end eizo next year
Yup Kyle.... same here. Quite disappointed all around. I think I'll buy another "old" macbook pro on craigslist this week as the yuppies start unloading them for cheap.
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How many of you have used a glossy LED display? My MBA display is very good indeed. I've not had any profiling issues in the same way I did with my wife's iMac (Glossy LCD). I was initially very skeptical but I have to say I have been won over. It's by far the best Mac notebook display I've ever used to work with images. I use it with lightroom while on the road; it's not up to heavy work, but when I do need to start pixel peeping it does an excellent job with color. The LED backlight also eliminates a lot of the glare associated with glossy LCD displays.
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With the laptops moving away from Firewire, I would like to know from the back makers of what do they have in mind, is it possible to power a back with USB ?
cheers
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Would like to know how a glossy screen is far more useful, and under what conditions?
Thank you.
Your paraphrase sort of takes my comments out of context. It isn't far more useful in general, and in fact most of the time it is pretty much irrelevant which type of screen it is. But in fact it is far more useful in a lot of situations, and in fact the brighter the ambient light the more helpful the glossy screen is.
I find the screen usable under any nearly any lighting conditions, including outdoors in daylight. Reflections are rarely a problem - you normally can't even see them unless the screen is off. Because reflections are specular, slight screen adjustments can usually resolve them, but to be honest I can't remember the last time I adjusted the screen to avoid a reflection. A matte screen on the other hand has the same reflections, but it's diffused, killing contrast and making it difficult to see the image. Sure you can't see a reflection, but you can't see the image either. The brighter the ambient light, the tougher it gets to see a matte screen.
An example, sitting in the front seat of a car riding to california in day time (which I do several times a year), old MacBook Pro required full screen brightness and still challenging to see and read info. Glossy screen no problem with screen turned down to 75% to conserve battery.
Obviously these aren't ideal conditions for working on photos, but that's not the main use of my MacBook anyway.
I didn't think I'd like it ... but now I prefer it. Been using it since Apple first introduced it a couple of versions ago, so this is the third MacBook Pro I've had with the glossy screen.
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Thank you, Wayne.
Appreciate the explanation.
Will give it a try.
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i have waited months for the upgraded macs but having read the specs, i must say, i'm very disappointed. the glossy screen turns me off completely. has anyone explored the Lenovo ThinkPad W700 laptop which is specifically geared to pro photographers.
rh
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Are we looking at the FW discussion from the wrong perspective?
I say this because FW as a standard has been loosing relevance for some time now. USB and eSATA have replaced it in many applications, consumer and professional. Microsoft as I understand it does't support FW 800 (1394b) in Vista. USB 3 will probably kill off FW in computing and consumer electronics.
A 13" MB would be a very useful machine to tether a MFDB. The problem is that most of Apple's customers, past and present don't even know what a MFDB is. They assume the FW port was there for their old video camera or a Lacie HDD. Apple could argue people should be grateful they didn't leave the MBP without a FW port, as they did with the MB! Will this be the last generation of the MBP to support FW?
I think the issue here is that the MFDB makers have been slow to identify and respond to an important industry trend which impacts their customers. Not exactly unheard of in the MF industry;)
Disclaimer: I'm not anti FW. I've been using Macs for more than 20 years and I've collected lots of FW goodies. I also know that the good old Apple days were not always that good. Like many I've lamented Apples rush to the consumer dollar, but I'm nothing if not a realist.
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With the laptops moving away from Firewire, I would like to know from the back makers of what do they have in mind, is it possible to power a back with USB ?
cheers
I think that's an excellent question. Perhaps those here who represent the back makers could be encouraged to comment?
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Would like to know how a glossy screen is far more useful, and under what conditions?
Thank you.
I have a MacBook Pro 17 in and a MacBook Air and the Glossy LED screen of the Air is way better for images than the MacBook Pro. You have to see it to understand.
I didn't believe it either but glare is never a problem, actually the matte screen is worse in daylight. Also, the screen on the Air is perfectly grey balanced without calibrating
out of the box. I can't do any serious color work on the Pro but I could on the MacBook Air, although it is not powerful enough.
I'm hoping the next 17 in will have the same glossy LED screen.
RS
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I think the issue here is that the MFDB makers have been slow to identify and respond to an important industry trend which impacts their customers. Not exactly unheard of in the MF industry;)
I don't want to bring up 35mm DSLR's here, but maybe this move to to USB is why Canon dropped FW and replaced it with USB on the 1Ds mk3....
(thinking out loud)
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I wanted to buy a spare Firewire cable while I was in Fukuoka. So I walked into Yodobashi Camera. Guess what, no FW cables, no adapters, no hubs. Back in Kobe, I checked in Joshin and Seiden, both large electronics chain stores. No go. Incidentally, Yodobashi has a large "Mac only" area in their stores. Finally I found a couple of cables in a second-hand shop. I guess Firewire looks like going the way of SCSI.
Cheers,
Kumar
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My suggestion is for those who already own many FW400 to FW400 cables.
Sorry BJNY, my sighing tone wasn't meant for you
I have FW800 on the A65s but when shooting teathered I also stick a ExHD into the 400 and save straight to that no room for that anymore - as I say doesn't affect me at the moment, just scratching my head a bit at the apple logic!
Glossy Cin Displays too - ?????x1000
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Thank you, Wayne.
Appreciate the explanation.
Will give it a try.
Even if one is not working on photos, try surfing the web and reading sites with dark backgrounds like LL's home page on a glass screen in daylight. Sure, if there's shade it might be passable, but otherwise, it's like trying to look at the back of a camera's LCD screen. For photographers, which I'm going to assume most of the people on this site are, the glass screens are simply the wrong choice.
Note that the glossy screens on the Macbooks are different than the glass screens on iMacs and the soon to be out MBP/ACD24 in that the Macbook screen has a bit of an anti-reflective coating, similar to what CRTs had towards the end of its hay day. The glass screens are not to my knowledge coated in any anti-reflective coating. At least the newer aluminum iMac I have at the office isn't. Heck, even the images Apple uses on their website to show off the new MBP/iMac/ACD24 ALL show a glare. Yes, I know it's probably just an illustration, but they're trying to tell us something...it's shiny!
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I think that's an excellent question. Perhaps those here who represent the back makers could be encouraged to comment?
I've copied this chunk from Wikipedia...
USB was originally seen as a complement to FireWire (IEEE 1394), which was designed as a high-speed serial bus which could efficiently interconnect peripherals such as hard disks, audio interfaces, and video equipment. USB originally operated at a far lower data rate and used much simpler hardware, and was suitable for small peripherals such as keyboards and mice.
The most significant technical differences between FireWire and USB include the following:
USB networks use a tiered-star topology, while FireWire networks use a repeater-based topology.
USB uses a "speak-when-spoken-to" protocol; peripherals cannot communicate with the host unless the host specifically requests communication. A FireWire device can communicate with any other node at any time, subject to network conditions.
A USB network relies on a single host at the top of the tree to control the network. In a FireWire network, any capable node can control the network.
USB runs with a 5 V power line, whereas Firewire can supply up to 30 V.
These and other differences reflect the differing design goals of the two buses: USB was designed for simplicity and low cost, while FireWire was designed for high performance, particularly in time-sensitive applications such as audio and video. Although similar in theoretical maximum transfer rate, FireWire 400 tends to have the performance edge over USB 2.0 Hi-Speed in real-world uses, especially in high-bandwidth use such as external hard-drives.
The newer FireWire 800 standard is twice as fast as FireWire 400 and outperforms USB 2.0 Hi-Speed both theoretically and practically.[26] The chipset and drivers used to implement USB and Firewire have a crucial impact on how much of the bandwidth prescribed by the specification is achieved in the real world, along with compatibility with peripherals.[27] Audio peripherals in particular are affected by the USB driver implementation.
So I would imagine USB 2.0 would be hard to implement unless new standards could up power and data through put. The speak-when-spoken-to protocol would be a serious hindrance as well.
David
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so apple is dropping FW AND not improving on their USB speed?
if you're missing FW connectors, you could still get a PCI-FW card. you have to go pro then, of course.
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So I would imagine USB 2.0 would be hard to implement unless new standards could up power and data through put. The speak-when-spoken-to protocol would be a serious hindrance as well.
David
e-SATA (3Gbits/s) and USB 3 (4.8 Gbit/s) will provide enough decent through put but FW is unique in delivering power. RED offer eSATA, FW and USB 2 on it's Red One product but clearly they don't rely on FW for power.
I think it's sad but when Sony dropped FW and Microsoft dropped FW networking and now don't even support FW 800 in Vista, the future doesn't look too bright.
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i always prefered matte to glossy...and still do...i looked at the last imacs when they came out...was ready to buy 2....but the screen just ruined them for me....someone here said that the screen is brighter then the "older" matte ones....very true (and part of the problem)...i have to dial my old MBP screen DOWN to be able to make adjustments that are useable for later serious work....i work on calibrated lacie and eizo screens and in order to do serious work the brightness has to be turned way down....yes the pics look a lot better with that extra bright/shiny POP but that is NOT what transfers to paper well....
i really love the new display with the adapters built in...great solution, but again...glossy? ONLY?
let's face it...for every 1 photographer who needs to tether his/her DMF back or canon there are 500 students, adults, regular people out there who want to do what everybody else is doing with their laptops....play games, watch movies, look at a couple of snapshots....hence the move to much improved graphics and glossy screen....
the graphics should come in handy with CS4 and future osX which will utilize the graphic cards for computing as well (i am sure other people can explain this much better and probably more accurate, i am only repeating what i read)...so performance will improve....which is good for all of us....
BUT why glossy ONLY? i guess the glass manufacturing calls for this....it should be pretty easy to make matte layovers for these screens so maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.....
my bigger concern is that the MBP seems to be a larger MB..nothing else.....i was hoping for a real pro version...make it larger but more options...mulitple HDs or even processors, more ports not less....
the FW issue really isn't that big of a deal....FW800 is fully backwards compatible and HDs, cameras can be daisy chained (or at least i hope they can)...but again....i would rather have a slightly larger MBP and 2 more ports....
or room for another HD and only one graphics card which sucks more power but gives me performance.....
how about a 1.8 SSD option with the system on it and a 2.5 (could be SSD as well) drive for files....
the 17 should have more room, so maybe there is hope (i doubt it...)....
the HD in the 15" just pops out like the battery, so that is good news, easy to keep a fully functional (CCC clone or similar) HD handy for replacement....
the problem (for me or us here) is: apple will sell more MBPs with features i don't happen to need then with the ones i want....
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I agree with everything said here, and have just found a last-generation MBP 17 inch that will probably be my next laptop. The new graphics cards are nice, but the losses to get them are too great (firewire port, glossy only, etc...), and the most asked for pro features are missing... No increased RAM, no quad core processor, no high-res screen except on the 17 incher (which kept its screen because it wasn't updated), and no Blu-Ray burner. What was Apple thinking on the Pro? It's really just a fancy MacBook...The new MacBook, on the other hand, looks like a nice machine for its intended market (Apple clearly doesn't expect people to tether $20,000+ digital backs to MacBooks). The only reason FireWire was a mistake on the MacBook (non-Pro)is that it doesn't leave a good way for a student to use Time Machine... Non-students can generally use a Time Capsule at home, which is the best laptop backup idea I've ever heard of, because it is so easy. On the other hand, universities really don't like unauthorized wireless routers (which the Time Capsule is) on their networks AT ALL. That leaves students living on campus using a USB drive, on an operating system that really doesn't like USB drives at all!
-Dan
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and no Blu-Ray burner.
Hmm, now should I buy that movie on Blue-Ray or download it from iTunes? Oh I don't have a Blue-Ray drive on my Mac, I'll have to go iTunes .
Not that I'm cynical you understand, but complex licensing or not, I just can't see Apple rushing to supply Blue-Ray all that soon.
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Due to the lack of improvements on the new mbp, I ordered a 15 inch(matte) refurb with the 2.5 proc, and the 512mb video card for only 1499. thats one hell of a deal guys... get em while they are still there!!
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I have a MacBook Pro 17 in and a MacBook Air and the Glossy LED screen of the Air is way better for images than the MacBook Pro. You have to see it to understand.
I didn't believe it either but glare is never a problem, actually the matte screen is worse in daylight. Also, the screen on the Air is perfectly grey balanced without calibrating out of the box. I can't do any serious color work on the Pro but I could on the MacBook Air, although it is not powerful enough.
I'm hoping the next 17 in will have the same glossy LED screen.
Even if one is not working on photos, try surfing the web and reading sites with dark backgrounds like LL's home page on a glass screen in daylight. Sure, if there's shade it might be passable, but otherwise, it's like trying to look at the back of a camera's LCD screen. For photographers, which I'm going to assume most of the people on this site are, the glass screens are simply the wrong choice.
Exactly what I did today
I had a look at the new laptops and went to the LL site [due to it's colour scheme] and I could see more of me than I could the website. So I've seen it and really didn't like it.
The new trackpad [when changed from the typical crippled default setting] is very, very good. I like it a lot, but I've been using gestures for years [in Opera] and love the convenience of them.
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Oops doublepost!
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For photographers, which I'm going to assume most of the people on this site are, the glass screens are simply the wrong choice.
Horses for corse and each to their own I guess... I'm with Wayne -- I have the glossy screen and love it. Actually wish my 30" cinema was glossy too.
,
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I got the glossy on my mbp and I love it. But if I was buying a new laptop now I'd choose the matte screen.
The problem for me is not the reflections, it's how this screen loves fingerprints and how easy it gets dirty. I have to clean it like 3 times a week.
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Same here. I have to clean it very regularly otherwise I sometimes end up trying to retouch spots on my screen
I am about to buy the 2 last old version MBP's in the MacShop over here.
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Same here. I have to clean it very regularly otherwise I sometimes end up trying to retouch spots on my screen
I am about to buy the 2 last old version MBP's in the MacShop over here.
I spent some time playing with one today. I would say that the new MPBs are a vast improvement on paper, but didn't do much for me in person. I don't like the glossy screen, but I can deal with it. I really don't like the chicklet keyboard, but I've been dealing with my Macbook. The glass screen will be far more durable in day to day use, but I wonder if it will shatter if dropped. I love, love, love the new trackpad. If I had a current MBP I wouldn't upgrade. If I were buying one now, the choice becomes harder. I really prefer the old machine in nearly every way, but CS4 with 10.6 (i.e. total 64bit) should fly and likely will be a viable machine for longer. So if you plan on replacing the laptop in the next 18 months, buy the last gen and enjoy the savings. If you plan to keep it for several years, get the new machine.
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I bought the last 2 of the older version MBP in the Applestore. I got about a 40% discount which made them very attractive. I didn't like the keyboard keys of the new version, I did not like the trackpad though that probably is a matter of getting used to, I didn't like the fact I only got 1 firewire port.
Most of all I did like the fact I got a huge discount for a machine that might be a bit slower but also has several things I prefer over the new one. For the next 2 years I am set. By that time I hope Apple has 'improved' the new version with at least another firewire port and a decent keyboard.
CS4 for Mac isn't 64bit so we don't take advantage of that just yet. I have tried the CS4 evaluation and I find it is noticably faster than CS3 anyway for some reason.
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Sorry BJNY, my sighing tone wasn't meant for you
I have FW800 on the A65s but when shooting teathered I also stick a ExHD into the 400 and save straight to that no room for that anymore - as I say doesn't affect me at the moment, just scratching my head a bit at the apple logic!
Glossy Cin Displays too - ?????x1000
Actually it shouldn't be a problem, depending on what enclosure your drive uses. Firewire daisy-chains so you should be able to plug your camera into the external drive and it will operate as normal. Both my external disc burner and main external hard drive have two ports and I can run both and my video camera at the same time just off my FW400 port.
Incidentally, if I remember right, the separate ports on the older MacBook Pro are not that separate and a test I saw measured performance reductions when both ports were used together!
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I bought the last 2 of the older version MBP in the Applestore.
I'll probably get mine this week. My first generation mbp accepts only 2 gig of ram. 4 gb are very welcome. And I really don't like the last model...
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Did anybody find a test or some comment on the performance of USB 2.0 on the Macbook somewhere on the net? Or tested themselves?
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Did anybody find a test or some comment on the performance of USB 2.0 on the Macbook somewhere on the net? Or tested themselves?
As I understand it the performance of USB relates more to Mac OS than the hardware itself.
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Here is the first test :
http://www.lesnumeriques.com/news_id-6445.html (http://www.lesnumeriques.com/news_id-6445.html)
It's in french by everybody can understand graphics.
It seems that the USB2.0 of the new MBP is faster than the faster PC laptop on the market wich is a very good news for all of us which are shooting tethered.
The bad news is that the FW800 is not much faster that expected and quite similar in speed that USB2.0 the way it has been implemented.
F
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As I understand it the performance of USB relates more to Mac OS than the hardware itself.
the performance is related to the usb driver implemented with the mb or mbp
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It seems that the USB2.0 of the new MBP is faster than the faster PC laptop on the market wich is a very good news for all of us which are shooting tethered.
Interesting, hope this will be the same on the MB, so tethering a Canon or Nikon will became fast under OSX. FW to USB2.0 cables are around? At least I found on 4pin to USB, but no 6 pin yet...
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Incidentally, if I remember right, the separate ports on the older MacBook Pro are not that separate and a test I saw measured performance reductions when both ports were used together!
Correct, the 'old' MBP is using one bus for both FW ports, I never got to run a harddrive and the A75 simultanously - which is more about power consumption, actually.
Using several ports for heavy data transfers is not a good idea in any configuration, though. It's your CPU which is doing the heavy lifting.
It's in french by everybody can understand graphics.
It seems that the USB2.0 of the new MBP is faster than the faster PC laptop on the market wich is a very good news for all of us which are shooting tethered.
The bad news is that the FW800 is not much faster that expected and quite similar in speed that USB2.0 the way it has been implemented.
That's old news, ever since USB 2.0 was introduced it was claimed it could beat Firewire.
It's working for consumer needs, but not for professional users when you need to move large amounts of data or work on pro video or audio.
If one does any of that, even FW 400 still runs circles around USB 2.0 .
Both 'Snow Leopard' and Adobe CS4 are supposed to take advantage of GPU power, so I'm wondering why Apple is leaving Firewire behind while there are still tons of FW harddrives and professional devices around which depend on it , and there is no real substitute available.
For pro users, the near-future advantages of the advanced graphics should be convincing enough to go MB'Pro', and we could still get a MacBook with Firewire to use it when the speed isn't an issue.
For 12+ years , Apple was my only choice, but right now I'm wondering if there is a future for professional users on a Mac - are they going all iPod/phone/etc. now ?
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"As many of you might have experienced it, the transfer speed of the USB2.0 port on Mac has always been slower than on PC, even when using BootCamp. The French website Les Numériques performed a test to compare the FireWire and the USB2.0 port of the new MacBook Pro. With a dual interface external HD, the USB2.0 and the FireWire provided the same transfer speed, with 20 MB/s and more than 30 MB/s respectively in reading and writing model, placing the new MBP in front of the tested PC hardware.
This information is important as it resembles the procedure used to clone HDs, as one needs both high transfer speed and low access time. If it might prove that the USB2.0 is now working properly in our Mac, it might not necessarily prove to Mac users that the lack of FireWire in the new MacBook is now justified."
http://www.hardmac.com/news/2008-10-24/ (http://www.hardmac.com/news/2008-10-24/)
Actually you'd hope FW800 would more like 100% faster than USB2, but still...
I've only had a brief play with the new MBP in the Sydney Apple Store, and was expecting the worst, glossy screen wise, but was pleasantly surprised with how much reflections weren't a big hassle. I'd have no qualms buying one.
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"As many of you might have experienced it, the transfer speed of the USB2.0 port on Mac has always been slower than on PC, even when using BootCamp. The French website Les Numériques performed a test to compare the FireWire and the USB2.0 port of the new MacBook Pro. With a dual interface external HD, the USB2.0 and the FireWire provided the same transfer speed, with 20 MB/s and more than 30 MB/s respectively in reading and writing model, placing the new MBP in front of the tested PC hardware.
This information is important as it resembles the procedure used to clone HDs, as one needs both high transfer speed and low access time. If it might prove that the USB2.0 is now working properly in our Mac, it might not necessarily prove to Mac users that the lack of FireWire in the new MacBook is now justified."
http://www.hardmac.com/news/2008-10-24/ (http://www.hardmac.com/news/2008-10-24/)
Actually you'd hope FW800 would more like 100% faster than USB2, but still...
I've only had a brief play with the new MBP in the Sydney Apple Store, and was expecting the worst, glossy screen wise, but was pleasantly surprised with how much reflections weren't a big hassle. I'd have no qualms buying one.
Seriously?? My girlfriend just go the new macbook and that glass glossy screen would be a nightmare for me!! I guess to each their own.
Regarding the whole fw vs usb 2 thing... these tests like this are almost never properly conducted as different devices can take advantage of the speed fw 800 but most cant. Typically fw 800 is not much fast than fw400 unless its properly implemented on the device, but the main advantage of either fw 400 or 800 is when transferring large amounts of data at once as the client and host can "talk" back and forth unlike usb 2.0
Im a long time mac user, and honestly I think the deletion of the fw400 port is something that we are going to start see across the board, its premature though as so many devices still take advantage of it. Concerning the mbp only having 1 port now as well... this would have been a little bit more understandable if the missing fw400 port was replaced with an esata II port, but it wasnt. Apple seems to be doing away with the pro user base on their mobile machines, it's sad
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The omission of the FW 400 port can only be seen as the march of progress. As much as I would like things to stabilize, we that use digital media have to realize and embrace progress. First there were serial ports, then SCSI, then firewire, then usb, usb2, fw800. About the only thing that has been fairly stable is ethernet, and even with that there have been pretty big changes and I still remember when ethernet was coax cable. I have always wondered why the digital backs didn't use ethernet? Cat-5 cable is lighter and locks in.
Luckily there are the cheap FW800 to FW400 adapters or cables.
How many of you have scanners that are SCSI? Pretty hard to find SCSI ports on the new computers.
Anyhow change is true of your storage media - remember floppy disks? zip drives? Jaz drives? What about IDE drives?
RE: glossy screens - I dislike them myself.
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Eric - agree with you - As for the evolving technology, there are options - Worst case situation, one would have to purchase new peripherals - BUT there is no such option for the Glossy Screens !!
I really am unsure how this is going to work out for me and many others who are more comfortable with Matte Screens -
I saw an online petition for the re-introduction of FW400 for the MacBooks - Wondering if there was a way to petition for the option for matte screens for ALL apple displays - Any ideas ??
Jai
The omission of the FW 400 port can only be seen as the march of progress. As much as I would like things to stabilize we that use digital media have to realize and embrace progress. First there was on serial ports, then SCSI, then firewire, then usb, usb2, fw800. About the only thing that has been fairly stable is ethernet, and even with that there have been pretty big changes and I still remember when ethernet was coax cable. I have always wondered why the digital backs didn't use ethernet? Cat-5 cable is lighter and locks in.
Luckily there are the cheap FW800 to FW400 adapters or cables.
How many of you have scanners that are SCSI? Pretty hard to find SCSI ports on the new computers.
Anyhow change is true of your storage media - remember floppy disks? zip drives? Jaz drives? What about IDE drives?
RE: glossy screens - I dislike them myself.
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I just bought an "early 2008" mbp (after selling my early 2006 mpp glossy). This is a great machine. TFT screen again. Thank god!
Really not looking forward to new macbooks. There's not much practical improvement and they look like toys... I could have considered them if there was a TFT option. Too bad Apple...
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I have to say, that I find myself in new territory here. I'm a lifetime Mac user, bought the first one in 1984 (128k ram!), but I'm in a bit of a quandary over the new machines. I was ready to discount them when user reports started coming in that back up Apple's claim of 40% faster than the last generation machines. After spending two years with a Macbook, I'm really over the glossy screen. They are ok inside, but not out. I have to say, despite the weight and cost, the Lenovo W700 is looking very tempting.
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I am a 20+ year PC user (got my first experiences with C/PM) that is also using Mac for the last 2 years, the biggest problem for me is that no PC laptop I found sofar has a FW400/800 port. I loath buying separate cards to do that.
The other thing which favors Mac for me is the fact I know less of the Mac environment. With PC I found myself more often tweaking with the OS than doing actual work, with the Mac I simply work. This is saving me a ton of time
I just hate Vista, MS should never have left XP and go Vista. Apparently the new Windows version is better. I used to alfa & beta test all versions but I simply don't have the patience anymore. Anyway, if your Windows machine is properly configured it is as fast (or faster) and stable as MacOS. It is just that currently the Mac is also one of the best Windows platforms you can have the best of 2 worlds. Up until the new Mac I was quite sure I would stick with Mac but things can change.
Ah well, I have a 'new' MBP which will last me about 2 years minimum and a lot can happen in that time.
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I now have a new Macbook and thought I should respond to some of my comments above. Overall this is a great laptop with a couple caveats. The trackpad is awful, but I think that future firmware updates may solve that. Also, the screen on the Macbook is absolutely worthless. I don't like the glossy, but it is not as bad as I thought it would be. The killer is the color -- it shifts radically from every viewing angle to the point that you can't see accurate colors from the top and bottom of the screen at the same time. Also, it is very low bit rate a struggles to accurately reproduce blues and purples. Note that this is for the Mackbook and the Macbook pro may be significantly better. I do not have calibration software that allows me to view the calibration curves to see how accurate the profile is, but it looks "off" to me.
If you can deal with the above and are looking for a traveling machine, this thing is fantastic. If you need to do any color work, pass.
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I now have a new Macbook and thought I should respond to some of my comments above. Overall this is a great laptop with a couple caveats. The trackpad is awful, but I think that future firmware updates may solve that. Also, the screen on the Macbook is absolutely worthless. I don't like the glossy, but it is not as bad as I thought it would be. The killer is the color -- it shifts radically from every viewing angle to the point that you can't see accurate colors from the top and bottom of the screen at the same time. Also, it is very low bit rate a struggles to accurately reproduce blues and purples. Note that this is for the Mackbook and the Macbook pro may be significantly better. I do not have calibration software that allows me to view the calibration curves to see how accurate the profile is, but it looks "off" to me.
If you can deal with the above and are looking for a traveling machine, this thing is fantastic. If you need to do any color work, pass.
I have a white macbook 2.2 Ghz and it was cheap and it works very well, the screen is good, maybe not for colour critical work but I have it next to my eizo and it's not far off, the battery life is good, about 3.5 hours and most importantly, IT HAS FIREWIRE. I have no idea why a photographer would buy one of the new ones.
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I have no idea why a photographer would buy one of the new ones.
because my white book is now a yellow book, with the topcase broken for the third time just above the white LED, the harddrive been replaced, the superdrive being replaced, the screen is flickering sometimes, and i am such an idiot not buying the protection plan. I started to get into problems in its 14th month and i have now put in about the same money i spent when new. the white case is just plastic crap, and although i ALWAYS kept in in a case it is scratched all over.
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because my white book is now a yellow book, with the topcase broken for the third time just above the white LED, the harddrive been replaced, the superdrive being replaced, the screen is flickering sometimes, and i am such an idiot not buying the protection plan. I started to get into problems in its 14th month and i have now put in about the same money i spent when new. the white case is just plastic crap, and although i ALWAYS kept in in a case it is scratched all over.
Wow that some carzy a#@ SH#@. Is it the recent white one or the old model? I've had mine for about a year now and it hasn't missed a beat.
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After using it outside, don't bother, the glass screen is worthless. I can't imagine the MBP's would be any different. I didn't love the glossy screen on the previous gen macs, but they were passable. For outside use, IMO this one is not.
Woof75 - This one was not really purchased as a photo machine, but it gave me an excuse to evaluate it as such for a short time to see if it would fill that role. This one replaced a white Macbook which was a good machine, but the plastic just was not durable enough. I would say that with the exception of being brighter and more evenly illuminated than the screen on your machine, the screen on the new Macbooks is simply inferior in every way. I have not used the new MBP's in any meaningful way, and will not be purchasing one for field photo use. I would say that if you are looking for a laptop for outside photo use, your options are a Lenovo W700, last gen MBP or wait and hope Apple comes out with something else or a third-party mfg comes out with a solution.
Screen aside, this is an exceptional machine for non-graphic uses.
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recent intel white mcbook. was working like a charm for 13 months, then it started to disintegrate. do yourself a favour, get the protection plan!
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The protection is good and bad. My MBP has a dent on the corner and now apple denies everything that might go wrong because of it. They did replace a bad battery but they will not fix a problem with my space bar sticking. They want $1200 to fix the case then they will fix the space bar. I just got a white Macbook for my wife and might steal it back to keep as a backup to my MBP on location.
recent intel white mcbook. was working like a charm for 13 months, then it started to disintegrate. do yourself a favour, get the protection plan!
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because my white book is now a yellow book, with the topcase broken for the third time just above the white LED, the harddrive been replaced, the superdrive being replaced, the screen is flickering sometimes, and i am such an idiot not buying the protection plan. I started to get into problems in its 14th month and i have now put in about the same money i spent when new. the white case is just plastic crap, and although i ALWAYS kept in in a case it is scratched all over.
The protection is good and bad. My MBP has a dent on the corner and now apple denies everything that might go wrong because of it. They did replace a bad battery but they will not fix a problem with my space bar sticking. They want $1200 to fix the case then they will fix the space bar. I just got a white Macbook for my wife and might steal it back to keep as a backup to my MBP on location.
Buy a Mac - they just work.
[Except when they don't and then they're also verrry expensive to fix]
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The killer is the color -- it shifts radically from every viewing angle to the point that you can't see accurate colors from the top and bottom of the screen at the same time. Also, it is very low bit rate a struggles to accurately reproduce blues and purples.
Unfortunately this is exactly what I saw when I tested one last week at my local store. I have a first gen MBA and was optomistic the MB would use the same panel; which in my experience has been very good indeed. Placing them side by side the color shift on the MB was simply unacceptable. In addition to your comments about blues and purples I found the top left of the screen had a green tint.
We don't have an Apple store, so the reseller was happy to try two other machines. We calibrated all 3 plus my MBA with an i1 ver2 prior to viewing a number of samples.
I can only assume that the panel has been downgraded in the MB or there is a technical issue.
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Unfortunately this is exactly what I saw when I tested one last week at my local store. I have a first gen MBA and was optomistic the MB would use the same panel; which in my experience has been very good indeed. Placing them side by side the color shift on the MB was simply unacceptable. In addition to your comments about blues and purples I found the top left of the screen had a green tint.
We don't have an Apple store, so the reseller was happy to try two other machines. We calibrated all 3 plus my MBA with an i1 ver2 prior to viewing a number of samples.
I can only assume that the panel has been downgraded in the MB or there is a technical issue.
I think there's really good deals on refurbished MBP's (the last generation ones) as ever I like to be a bit behind the curve, it's where the good stuff is.
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I think there's really good deals on refurbished MBP's (the last generation ones) as ever I like to be a bit behind the curve, it's where the good stuff is.
Mac have been slacking ever since they started with the Intel BS, which was the only road for them, But I NEVER had one problem with my macs in 15 years.. The last year I have had problem with every freaking mac I own.
Just had a MacPro Tower with 6 gigs of RAM Die after the first month the guarantee went out... They want 3800.00 to fix...
HAd a MacBook black one for the house.. also died 2 weeks after warranty.
Now I have a MAcbook Pro 17" that has it's good days and it's bad days...
Going to send it it BEFORE the warranty expires just for them to check it anyways..
Starting to Hate Apple more and more. And the new models are just becoming PC with and Apple logo....
It's a shame but cannot really blame them if they want to keep up with the game makers...
Snook