Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: eronald on September 24, 2008, 05:45:42 pm

Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: eronald on September 24, 2008, 05:45:42 pm
I just got a box with one of these - a bunch of us on the Colorsync list did a group buy via Chromix.

http://gizmodo.com/5014879/hp-dreamcolor-l...-billion-colors (http://gizmodo.com/5014879/hp-dreamcolor-lp2480zx-shows-off-its-one--billion-colors)

Mind blowing. Or eye-blowing. Colors as they cannot be seen on paper. The effect is immersive - as if you were there.

Gamut is considerably greater than AdobeRGB !
As it is an IPS panel the viewing angle is good, but  suspect it won't be appropriate for video.

Edmund
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: Graham Mitchell on September 24, 2008, 05:49:03 pm
Resolution? Contrast ratio? Looks very interesting.
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: pss on September 24, 2008, 05:56:37 pm
someone please give me a display that shows the colors that CAN be seen by paper....and are seen exactly the way they are seen by paper.....

unless you are only working for your images to shown on screens this does not make much sense to me....and if you are working to only show your stuff on the screen...good luck, everybody else has a crappy uncalibrated display that will butcher anything you throw at it....

i use to work in adobe prophotoRGB....until i found out that some of the best retouchers work in Colormatch RGB....closer to paper and still shows much more then any magazine print (that goes for ads as well....)
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: eronald on September 24, 2008, 06:21:04 pm
I'm a color geek - so I need to have a reference monitor. Now that I've seen this thing I know one thing for certain - within a few years, video will have gone wide-gamut.  Anything shown on a screen will be wide gamut. Paper won't go away - but screen imagery is going to be really, really colorful.

The other wierd thing about this monitor is that it seems to be calibrated out of the box somehow, and HP claim it will stay calibrated within its lifetime with very small variations - this opens the door to having calibrated displays everywhere. Finally.

BTW, if you want a totally foolproof color workflow *today*, and you're not a color geek, just set everything to sRGB. And use an sRGB monitor. Print and web clients will love you for it. Anyone needing a larger space is a either geek or a snob.

Edmund


Quote
someone please give me a display that shows the colors that CAN be seen by paper....and are seen exactly the way they are seen by paper.....

unless you are only working for your images to shown on screens this does not make much sense to me....and if you are working to only show your stuff on the screen...good luck, everybody else has a crappy uncalibrated display that will butcher anything you throw at it....

i use to work in adobe prophotoRGB....until i found out that some of the best retouchers work in Colormatch RGB....closer to paper and still shows much more then any magazine print (that goes for ads as well....)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224118\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: billthecat on September 25, 2008, 12:28:39 am
That monitor looks neat. Reading the reviews I feel that it would have benefit in even sRGB? Is that the case? One review showed that B&W photos looked much better with this monitor.

I still have my CRT and I've been thinking of getting a LCD in the future, this one looks pretty nice. NEC has an LED monitor but it is not 1920x1200.

Bill
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: revaaron on September 25, 2008, 10:01:48 am
I have a 2407wfp dell that I need to get rid of.
I've only had it for a year and I have never been able to get it to look good enough to edit photos on. $3.5K is a bit more than I wanted to spend on a replaement.
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: digitaldog on September 25, 2008, 10:29:43 am
When Karl Lang (who has one) has a report, I'll be sold. In the meantime, expect for those color geeks getting special pricing, and due to the fact this display was produced for film work (the Dream in DreamColor is due to the alliance with Dream Works), I think we photographers should sit on the sidelines and wait for better data/reviews from an independent source.

Karl does tell me it looks great. And the ability to actually switch from sRGB to the wide gamut (a true switch by altering the chromaticity) works well. But he needs to do actual lab measurements using equipment few if any of the so called color geeks here have (think $20K+ spectroradiometer and custom software), I'd sit back and wait for better data.

I'm tempted to also get a unit to check out. A bit too busy to spend time there (as is Karl, we're both working on a huge project). Hopefully we can get a break after October and he can actually get some useful data, as he did from the NEC's reported last year at PPE.
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: digitaldog on September 25, 2008, 10:32:34 am
Quote
BTW, if you want a totally foolproof color workflow *today*, and you're not a color geek, just set everything to sRGB. And use an sRGB monitor.

An sRGB monitor? You mean a circa 1994 CRT with P22 phosphors?

You might want to clarify that just a bit after looking at the definition upon which sRGB was built. There isn't an LCD that follows it (down to the TRC).
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: digitaldog on September 25, 2008, 10:44:24 am
Quote
someone please give me a display that shows the colors that CAN be seen by paper....and are seen exactly the way they are seen by paper.....

Photoshop's soft proof is supposed to do this (sort of, kind of) using the "Make my image look like crap" button (Simulate Paper/ink). Schewe covers this well in the tutorials you can get here.

The big issue is handling dynamic range which is vastly different on paper versus the display. But an emissive display and a reflective print will never match exactly just as a chrome and anything you print (despite the gamut of an ink set) will never match exactly. We hope to get as high into the 90% range as the law of physics allow.

But your point is well taken in terms of getting as close a match as possible. There are some things that hopefully future technology will allow Photoshop (or maybe LR) to do better.

Quote
i use to work in adobe prophotoRGB....until i found out that some of the best retouchers work in Colormatch RGB....closer to paper and still shows much more then any magazine print (that goes for ads as well....)

That's a bit like throwing the baby out with the bath water. First of all, the main advantage of ColorMatch RGB is its tone response curve of 1.8 for output to press conditions (this TRC was set this way to account for dot gain). Its a space designed many years ago and for prepress work. That's probably why so many of these retouchers are using it (or its just out of old habit). But the gamut is pretty small by todays standards, not much bigger than sRGB. If all your work goes to press, OK. But enter a K3, let alone HDR ink set, you're tossing a lot of printable colors.

These newer wide gamut displays are useful to some degree in that they now allow you to view colors broader than sRGB you may have in your wider gamut working space that you can print. The dynamic range issues, the ability for better soft proofing simulations etc are all different issues and a wider gamut display isn't necessarily worse for you in terms of getting a good/better screen to print match.

Your initial reaction to "Colors as they cannot be seen on paper" however is a good one. I'm not sure what that is supposed to imply that's useful in the context of photography for anything other than viewing images on this particular display.
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: eronald on September 25, 2008, 03:07:44 pm
Quote
These newer wide gamut displays are useful to some degree in that they now allow you to view colors broader than sRGB you may have in your wider gamut working space that you can print. The dynamic range issues, the ability for better soft proofing simulations etc are all different issues and a wider gamut display isn't necessarily worse for you in terms of getting a good/better screen to print match.

Your initial reaction to "Colors as they cannot be seen on paper" however is a good one. I'm not sure what that is supposed to imply that's useful in the context of photography for anything other than viewing images on this particular display.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224283\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

And what about the sheer joy of looking at a sunset image on-screen, without reference to paper ?

Screen display of images is slowly going to catch up with paper prints, and those screens can reproduce images that cannot be rendered to paper.

Edmund
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: Frank Doorhof on September 25, 2008, 03:11:08 pm
I went to the HP stand today and to my surprise there is no monitor on the photokina.
According to HP it was not suited for the target audience of photokina ???

The did have a wonderful machine to make books.........
Maybe I will now buy that instead  
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: eronald on September 25, 2008, 03:16:39 pm
Quote
I went to the HP stand today and to my surprise there is no monitor on the photokina.
According to HP it was not suited for the target audience of photokina ???

The did have a wonderful machine to make books.........
Maybe I will now buy that instead 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224332\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Frank,

It wasn't there. But they had Robin Myers profiling solution.
 
Are you going to be around tomorrow ? I would like to say hello

Edmund
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: Frank Doorhof on September 25, 2008, 03:23:58 pm
Tomorrow is my last day.
I will be at the leaf booth on several time slots 100% sure is 14:30 for the demo/fashion shoot, but because there is a new model I will be there on more slots probarbly to test.

If someone from LL is there, just get in touch with me or be at the leaf booth between 14:00-14:30.
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: digitaldog on September 25, 2008, 03:24:02 pm
Quote
And what about the sheer joy of looking at a sunset image on-screen, without reference to paper ?

Screen display of images is slowly going to catch up with paper prints, and those screens can reproduce images that cannot be rendered to paper.

Its not going to catch up unless you assume they are even remotely the same which they are not. Totally difference reference media. Just like wine and soup, both liquids and both edible let alone wine and urine, both liquids are vastly different. You're now comparing wine and wood.

There are images that can be rendered to paper that can't nor never will render on an emissive output device. How can they "catch up"?
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: digitaldog on September 25, 2008, 03:27:47 pm
Quote
I went to the HP stand today and to my surprise there is no monitor on the photokina.
According to HP it was not suited for the target audience of photokina ???

That may be entirely possible. As I mentioned, the unit wasn't designed for the photo space but rather the film space. That isn't to say it might not be good, even ideal for photographers or that modifications to the unit might make it ideal for the photo space.

We have a group of color geeks that understandably need to see what this new technology is all about. But its a stretch to say its an ideal (or even adequate) device for image editing. For one, my understanding is, its minimum contrast ratio is 1000:1. That's going to make soft proofing more difficult for the type of work we rely on.
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: Frank Doorhof on September 25, 2008, 03:30:10 pm
I have to really dive into the material to know how to answer
But I know my complete workflow is prophoto RGB and I know I'm missing out on my aRGB monitor, but it's MUCH better than my previous sRGB monitor.

So I could be totally wrong (again I did not read up to it).
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: billthecat on September 25, 2008, 05:27:20 pm
This monitor looks very nice. I checked out a few reviews but I don't see any really extensive ones. I've held on to my CRT for a long time waiting to get a flat panel and this seems like it is want I'm looking for.

It is selling for about $2,500 in the USA.

What would a good graphics card be to go along with this monitor for Windows?

Thx,
Bill
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: eronald on September 25, 2008, 05:51:25 pm
Quote
This monitor looks very nice. I checked out a few reviews but I don't see any really extensive ones. I've held on to my CRT for a long time waiting to get a flat panel and this seems like it is want I'm looking for.

It is selling for about $2,500 in the USA.

What would a good graphics card be to go along with this monitor for Windows?

Thx,
Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224385\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's a question you should ask in the Photoshop forum. Graphic acceleration is now a PS feature.

Edmund
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: dustblue on September 26, 2008, 03:09:28 am
check out the samsung xl24 and xl30, they are also LED backlit, but not IPS panels, they use s-pva.
BTW Eizo uses samsung's s-pva panel in many of their products, including the CG241W.

Quote
I just got a box with one of these - a bunch of us on the Colorsync list did a group buy via Chromix.

http://gizmodo.com/5014879/hp-dreamcolor-l...-billion-colors (http://gizmodo.com/5014879/hp-dreamcolor-lp2480zx-shows-off-its-one--billion-colors)

Mind blowing. Or eye-blowing. Colors as they cannot be seen on paper. The effect is immersive - as if you were there.

Gamut is considerably greater than AdobeRGB !
As it is an IPS panel the viewing angle is good, but  suspect it won't be appropriate for video.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224107\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: jerryrock on January 01, 2009, 02:02:58 am
HP is selling the DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for $1999. (US) until January 31, 2009.
This makes it competitive with the other RGB LED monitors currently on the market.

Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: eronald on January 01, 2009, 07:55:32 am
Quote from: jerryrock
HP is selling the DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for $1999. (US) until January 31, 2009.
This makes it competitive with the other RGB LED monitors currently on the market.

As a color management consultant, I have decided that I am NOT recommending the  LP2480zx monitor for color-critical work because of recurring issues with color non-uniformity across the panel.
Chromix have told me they also have decided not to recommend it for color critical work.
Because of its spectacular gamut, this monitor is well fitted for demos and showing images to clients; it is adequate for retouching, but not for really fine color work.

Edmund
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: EricWHiss on January 01, 2009, 01:03:38 pm
Quote from: eronald
As a color management consultant, I have decided that I am NOT recommending the  LP2480zx monitor for color-critical work because of recurring issues with color non-uniformity across the panel.
Chromix have told me they also have decided not to recommend it for color critical work.
Because of its spectacular gamut, this monitor is well fitted for demos and showing images to clients; it is adequate for retouching, but not for really fine color work.

Edmund


That's interesting to hear.  What display do you recommend instead?
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: eronald on January 01, 2009, 02:35:32 pm
Quote from: EricWHiss
That's interesting to hear.  What display do you recommend instead?

If your aim is pure color management for photo or graphics to print preview, I'd recommend staying with a standard (non-wide gamut) monitor with an IPS panel. Avoid PVA panels because of viewing angle (viewer location) issues  and RGB led backlighting (uniformity issues) for the time being.

If you just want to demo or you want to show films you will benefit from moving to one of these modern technologies.

Edmund
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: juicy on January 01, 2009, 04:47:13 pm
Wow, what a coincidence! I was just about to ask your opinion on this display now that it's been in use for a couple of months.

Btw, have you (or any other Dreamcolor user) noticed any other problems with the display? Any problems with profiling it? How does it render skin tones or some other smaller gamut stuff?


Thanks for sharing your thoughts and happy new year.
 
J



Quote from: eronald
As a color management consultant, I have decided that I am NOT recommending the  LP2480zx monitor for color-critical work because of recurring issues with color non-uniformity across the panel.
Chromix have told me they also have decided not to recommend it for color critical work.
Because of its spectacular gamut, this monitor is well fitted for demos and showing images to clients; it is adequate for retouching, but not for really fine color work.

Edmund
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: jerryrock on January 05, 2009, 09:43:16 pm
Quote from: eronald
As a color management consultant, I have decided that I am NOT recommending the  LP2480zx monitor for color-critical work because of recurring issues with color non-uniformity across the panel.
Chromix have told me they also have decided not to recommend it for color critical work.
Because of its spectacular gamut, this monitor is well fitted for demos and showing images to clients; it is adequate for retouching, but not for really fine color work.

Edmund

I have read your findings as well as others on the Apple Colorsync Users List.  I decided to purchase the LP2480zx despite the negative recommendation.  I also ordered the HP Advanced Profiling Solution with specially filtered Xrite puck for calibrating the monitor's LUT.  I think this is key to getting accurate performance from this monitor.

Your observation of uneven color uniformity is noted but may have been an issue with the panel you were given to test.  Other testers either did not experience the issue or had faulty units replaced alleviating the problem. I will formulate my own opinion when the LP2480zx becomes a part of my daily workflow.

Jerry
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: Ray on January 06, 2009, 01:51:07 am
My 50" Panasonic Plasma Display can apparently display 134 billion different colors, has a native contrast ratio of 30,000:1, a maximum contrast ratio of 1,000,000:1 and a screen resolution of 1920x1080 pixels.  SRGB images displayed through the set's built-in SD card slot look accurate but with a noticeable enhancement of vibrance and luminosity which produces an effect I can only describe as superb. Shadow detail is also superb.

However, the display doesn't seem to lend itself to calibration with the usual colorimeters. But why should it? There's no Plasma option in the calibration software.
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: jerryrock on January 06, 2009, 08:56:03 am
Quote from: Ray
My 50" Panasonic Plasma Display can apparently display 134 billion different colors, has a native contrast ratio of 30,000:1, a maximum contrast ratio of 1,000,000:1 and a screen resolution of 1920x1080 pixels.  SRGB images displayed through the set's built-in SD card slot look accurate but with a noticeable enhancement of vibrance and luminosity which produces an effect I can only describe as superb. Shadow detail is also superb.

However, the display doesn't seem to lend itself to calibration with the usual colorimeters. But why should it? There's no Plasma option in the calibration software.

The HP Dreamcolor display was designed with built in color space standards including Adobe RGB and sRGB as well as the ability to customize your own.  This is beneficial for Graphic Designers, Photographers and Cinematographers who must accurately reproduce images according to a set standard for publication or further production.

Your plasma display may be capable of displaying billions of colors, but is limited by the color signals it receives. You may like how it interprets sRGB colorspace which look vibrant on the display, but it is far from accurate and not a substitute for a color critical monitor.

The plasma display does not have a built in LUT that can be calibrated with a colorimeter designed for computers. Monitor profiling programs designed for computers alter the LUT of the computer's video card to comply with a set standard by reading display output with a colorimeter.

Jerry


Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: Ray on January 06, 2009, 09:56:10 am
Quote from: jerryrock
Your plasma display may be capable of displaying billions of colors, but is limited by the color signals it receives. You may like how it interprets sRGB colorspace which look vibrant on the display, but it is far from accurate and not a substitute for a color critical monitor.

The plasma display does not have a built in LUT that can be calibrated with a colorimeter designed for computers. Monitor profiling programs designed for computers alter the LUT of the computer's video card to comply with a set standard by reading display output with a colorimeter.

Most monitors are not accurate before calibration. At least I've never owned one which is. My plasma display has a number of HDMI inputs as well as a 15 pin VGA input. Connected to my laptop through its HDMI output, I get the full resolution of 1920x1080 and can use the screen as a computer monitor. However, all my X-rite colorimeters and software (Coloreyes and GM Eye-1) address only the two types of displays, LCD and CRT.

I've never come across an LCD display which boasts a native contrast ratio of 30,000:1 and a dynamic CR of 1 million to 1, not to mention the 134 billion colors.

By the way, I wouldn't say that the sRGB rendition, directly from the set's SD card slot, is far from accurate. I'd describe it as similar to the effect one gets after softproofing an image in Photoshop to overcome the dullness of 'paper white', then unticking 'proof colors' and seeing the image really pop.
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: jerryrock on January 06, 2009, 10:42:09 am
Quote from: Ray
Most monitors are not accurate before calibration. At least I've never owned one which is. My plasma display has a number of HDMI inputs as well as a 15 pin VGA input. Connected to my laptop through its HDMI output, I get the full resolution of 1920x1080 and can use the screen as a computer monitor. However, all my X-rite colorimeters and software (Coloreyes and GM Eye-1) address only the two types of displays, LCD and CRT.

I've never come across an LCD display which boasts a native contrast ratio of 30,000:1 and a dynamic CR of 1 million to 1, not to mention the 134 billion colors.

By the way, I wouldn't say that the sRGB rendition, directly from the set's SD card slot, is far from accurate. I'd describe it as similar to the effect one gets after softproofing an image in Photoshop to overcome the dullness of 'paper white', then unticking 'proof colors' and seeing the image really pop.

Ray,
I have a Samsung PN50A650 50" plasma display that has the same features as your Panasonic but would not use it for color critical work because of the reasons listed in my previous post.
Even if you were able to use your X-Rite colorimeter to profile the display through your computer, it would only be valid when using your TV as a computer monitor as the calibration information is stored and used by the computer, not the TV.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF...67-3648397.html (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-72270-444767-3648397.html)

Jerry
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: jjj on January 06, 2009, 12:02:54 pm
Quote from: Ray
I've never come across an LCD display which boasts a native contrast ratio of 30,000:1 and a dynamic CR of 1 million to 1, not to mention the 134 billion colors.
I surprised that a professional sceptic like yourself actually believes the marketing numbers used to flog such items.  
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: Ray on January 06, 2009, 06:00:50 pm
Quote from: jerryrock
Even if you were able to use your X-Rite colorimeter to profile the display through your computer, it would only be valid when using your TV as a computer monitor as the calibration information is stored and used by the computer, not the TV.

Jerry

Yes, of course. Understood! However, my plasma display has a whole range of contrast, brightness and color settings which are specific to each input. If I were to use the display for color critical work, as a computer monitor, whatever adjustments I were to make to the set's contrast and brightness before calibration, would not affect the other inputs. The set would continue to function as a TV for all TV broadcasts, or DVD movies from a stand-alone DVD player, which is fine.

Normal broadcast material varies in image quality and color accuracy much more (very much more) than any of my images processed on a calibrated monitor. I don't need the set claibrated for TV viewing. There are so many global adjustments which can take care of source material quality variation, such as 'cinema mode', color temperature warm or cool etc etc.

The intriguing aspect of this is the amazing specs of this 11th generation Panasonic plasma display.
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: Ray on January 06, 2009, 06:11:10 pm
Quote from: jjj
I surprised that a professional sceptic like yourself actually believes the marketing numbers used to flog such items.

I don't need to be believe in the precision of the numbers. The relevant issue here is, 'Is there any reason for manufacturers of Plasma displays to exaggerate the numbers to a greater extent than the manufacturers of LCD displays?' There would be reason for thinking that the reverse might be true. Plasma displays have always had a reputation for producing a better quality image than LCD technology. It would therefore be reasonable to suppose that the manufacturers of LCD displays, in order to compete in the market place, might be given to greater exaggeration of the spec numbers.

Whether this is true or not, I don't know. I'm generally guided by what is reasonable, likely and sensible.
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: jerryrock on January 06, 2009, 09:08:37 pm
Quote from: Ray
Yes, of course. Understood! However, my plasma display has a whole range of contrast, brightness and color settings which are specific to each input. If I were to use the display for color critical work, as a computer monitor, whatever adjustments I were to make to the set's contrast and brightness before calibration, would not affect the other inputs. The set would continue to function as a TV for all TV broadcasts, or DVD movies from a stand-alone DVD player, which is fine.

Normal broadcast material varies in image quality and color accuracy much more (very much more) than any of my images processed on a calibrated monitor. I don't need the set claibrated for TV viewing. There are so many global adjustments which can take care of source material quality variation, such as 'cinema mode', color temperature warm or cool etc etc.

The intriguing aspect of this is the amazing specs of this 11th generation Panasonic plasma display.


Ray,

The DataColor Spyder3 TV will calibrate your plasma set:

http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-ht-s3tv.php (http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-ht-s3tv.php)

Jerry
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: Ray on January 07, 2009, 03:23:51 am
Quote from: jerryrock
Ray,

The DataColor Spyder3 TV will calibrate your plasma set:

http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-ht-s3tv.php (http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-ht-s3tv.php)

Jerry

Jerry,
I've seen references to this device on the net and considered buying it. However, it seems to me that the Spyder TV is actually calibrating the interaction of two machines; the DVD player and the TV set. I'm not sure I need it. DVD movies and good quality broadcasts are just fine on my new Panasonic plasma TV set.

The Spyder TV would simply enable me to make more accurate adjustments of contrast, brightness and color in respect of the input which my DVD player is connected to. Can one assume that such adjustments will be appropriate for all inputs, including the antenna input and the HDMI input from my laptop if I were to use the plasma display as the main monitor for image processing in Photoshop?

Even if one allows for a certain exaggeration of the specs of this plasma set and divides all the numbers in half, say 15,000:1 contrast ratio and a mere 67 billion colors, that's still impressive. I can't help wondering how the color gamut compares with Adobe RGB. Unfortunately, this plasma set is not located at my studio where I have my printer and 64 bit desktop computer, so I can only experiment with my laptop connected to the display. For all I know, the ATI 256MB video card in the laptop might be a limitation here.


Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: Farmer on January 07, 2009, 03:32:36 am
Quote from: Ray
Even if one allows for a certain exaggeration of the specs of this plasma set and divides all the numbers in half, say 15,000:1 contrast ratio and a mere 67 billion colors, that's still impressive. I can't help wondering how the color gamut compares with Adobe RGB. Unfortunately, this plasma set is not located at my studio where I have my printer and 64 bit desktop computer, so I can only experiment with my laptop connected to the display. For all I know, the ATI 256MB video card in the laptop might be a limitation here.

Bear in mind that in a typical room lit or in daylight, then your contrast of even 15,000:1 can't be achieved.  Even in darkness, unless the room is devoid of reflective surfaces it will be difficult.

That doesn't mean that there isn't any benefit over, say, a 1,000:1 item but once you're talking 10,000:1 and above it becomes rather meaningless.

Also, unless your laptop supports HDMI 1.3 or higher then you won't get a DeepColor signal through to the screen, so it's back to a gamut of millions of colours instead of billions of colours.  Actually, I'm not even sure that DVI supports DeepColor (assuming the laptop is actually DVI out and you're using a cable to convert to a HDMI connector in the screen).
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: Ray on January 07, 2009, 04:32:55 am
Quote from: Farmer
Bear in mind that in a typical room lit or in daylight, then your contrast of even 15,000:1 can't be achieved.  Even in darkness, unless the room is devoid of reflective surfaces it will be difficult.

That doesn't mean that there isn't any benefit over, say, a 1,000:1 item but once you're talking 10,000:1 and above it becomes rather meaningless.

Also, unless your laptop supports HDMI 1.3 or higher then you won't get a DeepColor signal through to the screen, so it's back to a gamut of millions of colours instead of billions of colours.  Actually, I'm not even sure that DVI supports DeepColor (assuming the laptop is actually DVI out and you're using a cable to convert to a HDMI connector in the screen).
 

I guess we've got a lot of over-kill with these numbers, but too much is better than too little, don't you think? I'm really interested in the color gamut of these plasma pixels, but can't get much information on the subject.

My laptop is a fairly recent Dell Studio 15 with Blu-ray player, DVD burner but no Blu-ray burner. The video card is the 256MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3450 and I assume that its HDMI output would conform to the latest standard, but I'm not sure about that.

The plasma set is only capable of its full resolution through an HDMI input, when used as a computer monitor. I suspect the DVI output from my Matrox video card in my desktop computer (used with DVI to HDMI adapter) would not be capable of such high resolution.
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: jerryrock on January 07, 2009, 09:08:15 pm
The HP LP2480zx 24" DreamColor monitor arrived today along with the monitor hood and custom filtered colorimeter manufactured by Xrite as part of the HP Advanced Profiling Solution.

The colors appear to be very saturated and did benefit from calibration. The calibration software (which does run on both Mac and PC) allows you to calibrate each built in color space or create your own. Gamma, luminance, white point and RGB primaries can all be set prior to calibration. Black level can be adjusted manually in the OSD. The calibration procedure is very fast and information is saved in the monitor LUT and not the video card.

This monitor displays 100% of Adobe RGB and sRGB.
The default setting (Full) is the widest possible color gamut which make colors very saturated in non color managed applications. The beauty of this monitor is that you can instantly change to one of seven preset color spaces including Adobe RGB and sRGB with just the push of a button.

There are inputs for DVI, HDMI, Display Port, sVGA, component and composite. It also has a USB hub with 4 ports. The monitor can be swiveled, tilted and rotated 90 degrees for portrait mode.



Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: Ray on January 07, 2009, 11:20:04 pm
Quote from: jerryrock
The HP LP2480zx 24" DreamColor monitor arrived today along with the monitor hood and custom filtered colorimeter manufactured by Xrite as part of the HP Advanced Profiling Solution.

The colors appear to be very saturated and did benefit from calibration. The calibration software (which does run on both Mac and PC) allows you to calibrate each built in color space or create your own. Gamma, luminance, white point and RGB primaries can all be set prior to calibration. Black level can be adjusted manually in the OSD. The calibration procedure is very fast and information is saved in the monitor LUT and not the video card.

This monitor displays 100% of Adobe RGB and sRGB.
The default setting (Full) is the widest possible color gamut which make colors very saturated in non color managed applications. The beauty of this monitor is that you can instantly change to one of seven preset color spaces including Adobe RGB and sRGB with just the push of a button.

There are inputs for DVI, HDMI, Display Port, sVGA, component and composite. It also has a USB hub with 4 ports. The monitor can be swiveled, tilted and rotated 90 degrees for portrait mode.

Sounds slightly upmarket from my Acer P244WB which I bought a week ago to use with my laptop, partly because it was being offered at the irresistably low price of A$320.55 (US$225) after $49 cashback from Acer  .

This is a 24" LCD 1920x1080 monitor with one D-Sub and 2 HDMI inputs. The contrast ratio is claimed to be 2000:1. The response time 2 ms is good for video but doesn't do anything for the quality of still images. Unfortunately, this monitor displays only 16.7M colors, a far cry from my plasma's 134 billion.

It doesn't appear to be a particularly good quality monitor. The colors seem to lack vibrancy, but what can one expect at that price? I guess it's better than my laptop screen.

If saturated, vibrant colors are an indication of a wide color gamut, my Panansonic Plasma TV seems unbeatable. If only it would lend itself to normal calibration procedures with my current colorimeters.
Title: It's beautiful.
Post by: stevephoto on July 23, 2009, 05:08:21 am
It seems the HP lp2480zx gets high marks and the only negative is about the dithering issue, has anyone found the dithering to be a problem in day to day usage?