Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: michel on May 08, 2005, 11:23:23 am

Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: michel on May 08, 2005, 11:23:23 am
just forget: thanks for the lens hood link. red once the article but did not bookmark it. was searching since months.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: didger on May 08, 2005, 05:29:49 pm
If the lens is totally in the shade, it doesn't matter if that shade is under a tree, under a lens hood, or under your hand; total shade is total shade, and in fact you can more certainly provide that shade with your hand than a lens hood (if you're very careful).  I'm not talking about just eliminating the sun from where it hits the lens at an angle so that direct sunlight actually hits the sensor (disaster!!), but any direct sunlight hitting the glass from any angle.  Wide angle lens hoods tend to be either not totally effective to provide this glass shade or they tend to cause a little vignetting.  In any case, for me to carry around big lens hoods is pretty prohibitive, since I carry my lenses in my pants pockets so I don't have to take my pack off to take a picture.  Those zoom lenses I'm using now are about absolute max for pants pockets as is.

When you shade a lens with your hand in a situation where you're shooting more or less into the direction of the sun, you can really see the difference and you know if your shading is effective even without looking to be sure the glass is really completely out of direct sunlight.  There may be some situations (that I've never seen) where extremely bright light other than from the sun could hit the glass from a direction that your hand isn't shielding, but I think that would be noticeable.  Sometimes I use my hat to provide a larger shade area than my hand if I'm shooting right into the sun pretty low in the sky.

I'm NOT suggesting that dispensing with hoods is a great idea for everybody.  It's just a great idea for my siituation and it doesn't seem compromise image quality, though it makes some shots take more time and care if you use a hand or hat for shade.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: didger on May 09, 2005, 08:22:35 am
Quote
do be aware of flare by direct sun and fog by stray light.
Yeah, that's the kernel right there.  These undesirable effects are definitely visible in the viewfinder and if you're shooting landscape with a tripod you can take the time to look carefully and to take necessary remedial measures.  If you're doing sports action or "event" photography, you'll certainly want the most effective hood you can manage and you probably won't be shooting very wide very often either.

It's more of an issue of common sense and the combination of shooting circumstances and style and what lenses you're using than of some general conclusion (must ALWAYS use a hood) based on tests that prove that less stray light is better.  Of course it's better, but we have to shoot in the real world with a variety of lenses and circumstances.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: wolfnowl on May 09, 2005, 11:58:32 am
I (almost) always use the hood for the reasons already mentioned.  Add one more to the list...

Mike.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: Lisa Nikodym on May 09, 2005, 06:04:50 pm
I use the hood that was made to go with each lens.  For wide angle lenses, it's certainly not as effective as the deep hoods for telephoto lenses, but it's better than nothing...

Lisa
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: wolfnowl on May 10, 2005, 09:56:18 am
Quote
I'm sure that I spend more time in the field than any two other people on this forum or anywhere else and that I also get to more challenging places more of the time than anyone else anywhere.

Well, with, let's see here... 25+ years experience working in fisheries and wildlife biology, having worked with freshwater fish, aquatic and terrestrial invertebrates, small mammals, songbirds, wildlife rabies, bears, moose, habitat inventory, resource extraction, environmental assessment, etc. etc. I'll take that bet.  Will that be cash or cheque?

(no, I don't expect you to pay up - just lightening the mood)

Mike.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: Jonathan Wienke on June 10, 2005, 10:00:02 am
I use lens hoods for about 99% of my shots. They help control stray light and protect the front lens element from impact damage. Didger is correct about hood limitations on really wide angle lenses, but they do still help some and I use them anyway. And I generally do not use UV filters unless there is a lot of ambient flying mud or whatever.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: wolfy on May 08, 2005, 10:12:05 am
The linked article affirms lens-hood use.


I am curious as to the number of LL members/DSLR users who advocate/actually-use hoods.
There is a "hassle" element, to be sure, but I'd like to hear opinions as to the "It's worth it!" effects on the finished product, ...a better image.

http://www.vanwalree.com/optics/lenshood.html (http://www.vanwalree.com/optics/lenshood.html)

Thanks!
 
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: Ken on May 08, 2005, 12:24:08 pm
The biggest impression for lens shade use was made on me about three decades ago at a Hasselblad/Zeiss seminar. At the meeting room entrance was a life-size enlargement of a model. People were climbing all over it with their pocket magnifiers, talking excitedly about crispness and detail down to the finest clothing threads.

The first part of the presentation was about lens flare, glass coatings, baffles, interior paint, etc. Just before the break, they brought in an enlargement of a shot made a few seconds after the one at the entrance, but this one was shot with a lens shade. No other changes. They put it up next to the first one. Mind-boggling! Instantly, the first print became "ordinary."

If you want to squeeze out everything the finest lenses can give you, use a lens shade. Even if you're after a soft, ethereal look, shoot it sharp at least once so you'll have it. In Photoshop, you can soften a sharp original, but you can't reverse a soft one.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: wolfy on May 08, 2005, 09:16:44 pm
Quote
If the lens is totally in the shade, it doesn't matter if that shade is under a tree, under a lens hood, or under your hand; total shade is total shade, and in fact you can more certainly provide that shade with your hand than a lens hood (if you're very careful).  I'm not talking about just eliminating the sun from where it hits the lens at an angle so that direct sunlight actually hits the sensor (disaster!!), but any direct sunlight hitting the glass from any angle.
My reading of the linked article(and others) suggests that the writers would disagree ...they would likely propose that *darkness* is total shade.

And that any light, other than that which actually forms the desired image,  would be prevented from entering the lens by the "ideal" hood, and thence could not reflect/bounce around to degrade the image reaching the sensor to ANY degree.

I.e., ...it is not only 'direct sunlight' that is undesirable. ???
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: boku on May 09, 2005, 08:05:54 am
From Obviousville here...

Zooms, by their very nature, will never have a lens shade that is optimal. Use what works for you in a given situation, but do be aware of flare by direct sun and fog by stray light.

I use shades sometimes, my hand sometimes, a hat sometimes, and nothing other times.

But - the shades I use the most are for my 100mm macro and my 300mm tele. Not zooms.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: pobrien3 on May 09, 2005, 11:32:35 am
Watch your TV with sunlight falling obliquely across the screen, then watch it in darkness.  Easy way to illustrate why you should minimise unwanted light across the lens, however you manage it.  Always stick the hood on, additionally shade it in other ways if you can / feel the need - why wouldn't you?  If you need to twiddle a polariser, stick it back on afterwards or poke your finger into the hood.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: didger on May 09, 2005, 06:32:29 pm
Quote
it's better than nothing...
But not better than your hand or your hat, and it's not better than leaving out the extra bulk if you're carrying lenses in your pants pockets.

Uh, when I set my camera down somewhere, I NEVER set it down onto the front element of the lens.  It's SO hard to keep the camera from tipping over that way.  Morever, I AM quite lens cap compliant and conscientious.

As of today, however, I'll be partially hood compliant.  My 35mm f2 Nikon prime came with a lens hood and the whole thing still fits into my pocket along with a zoom.

Our of respect to Ralph Waldo Emerson, I'll NEVER be completely hood compliant.  Boku, Ralph, and me against the world; take that, ye foolishly consistent.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: didger on May 10, 2005, 12:07:18 pm
Well, let's see here, cash will be fine, PayPal also accepted.  I've got 40+ to your 25+ and much of the same sort of professional experience (including a long herpetology expedition as a field assistant in the hinterlands of Ecuador about 1962) plus lots private wilderness endeavors from mid fifties on.  In any case, I was referring to photography, not biology, and not to lifelong miscellaneous wilderness time, but amount of wilderness photo shooting currently.  I did say SPEND time, not HAVE spent time all my life, though that might also be a safe bet.  I'm pretty confident that I "field tripping" one way or another when you were still in diapers or earlier, unless you started your biology field career rather late in life.  I did that research as an undergrad spending every possible spare moment in the desert for two years (around '63, '64) and published two papers in  the American Midland Naturalist in '65 while a grad student at UC Berkeley.

Need my PayPal account info?  How much you want to send me?  The more you send, the more my mood will be lightened.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: audiopile on June 10, 2005, 12:37:44 am
OK - this should upset everyone. I use plumbing fixtures as lense hoods. i think these things are called belke fittings? At any rate they are the Rubber/plastic fittings used to couple two dissimilar diameter pipes to each other. cost 7 or 8 bucks. Idea is not mine - ran into a news photographer in the 60's who made up a similar (really ugly) flexible lens hood out of several different diameters of inner tubes. he had trashed a fair number of lenses over the years - mainly by wacking the front of the lense into something ( usually the deck) - he always carried at least three cameras - but usually  didn't have spare lenses and this was before zoom overlap was a possibility.
   As far as the need for lense hoods - especially trying for birds in flight - it seems like a necesity.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: Lisa Nikodym on May 08, 2005, 11:02:03 am
While I haven't done any tests to see what effect they have, I virtually always use a lens hood made for specifically whatever lens I'm using.  They don't take up any space in the camera bag, since (at least for the ones I own) they fit backwards on the lens for storage (and I only rarely switch lenses).  The only significant inconvenience is that I have to take them off to adjust, put on, or remove a polarizer, but I found that temporarily stashing the hood around my wrist (rather like a bracelet) during the filter adjustments minimizes the inconvenience, and it takes only a second or two.

Lisa
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: didger on May 08, 2005, 04:06:07 pm
The main purpose of a lens hood is to keep direct sunlight from shining on the glass.  I always shoot with a tripod and I find I can shade the lens more effectively with my hand, including in situations (esp wide angle) where a lens hood wouldn't quite do it.  That much less cumbersome bulk is significant for my situation.  To protect the glass a lens cap is better than a lens hood.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: didger on May 08, 2005, 10:10:57 pm
There's a bit of a conflict here; wide lenses are most subject to flare and also to any sort of light hitting the glass causing a sort of bright foggy  low contrast look (esp. sky).  Quite a few shorter lenses (like  my 50mm Canon Compact Macro) are so deeply recessed that you'd never need a hood.  On the other hand, wide lenses and most zooms have very minimal hoods that under no circumstances keep the glass in anything like total darkness "in a deep well".  Even if you made a hood 3 feet deep, if it flared wide enough not to cause vignetting, your lens still wouldn't be in the "deep dark well" that would be ideal.  In any case, I've never noticed the slightest hint that I'm getting less contrast or any sort of "foggy" look with my wide lenses only shielded carefully by my hands or hat, compared to my 50mm macro or 70-200 with huge deep hood.

With my D2X, the 3 lenses I have are 105 prime and 12-24 zoom and 28-75 zoom.  The 105 has very deeply recessed glass, so you wouldn't gain much extra shading with a hood and the two zooms have such minimal hoods that they would not contribute anything significant to effective shading under any circumstances.  The top and bottom petals project about 1/2 inch and the side petals 1 inch and the corners are about flush with the edge of the glass.  What good is such a "hood" except maybe to give you the mental satisfaction and peace of mind that you ARE using a manufacturer provided (and therefore useful and correct) "hood" with your lens?  Reality check time.

How would you ever achieve this shooting from a deep dark well benefit with wide zooms?  I've personally never had any experience that makes me suspect any need to do this, but how would you do it in any case?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, I reckon, especially if it's in any case impossible for the wide zooms that would benefit most from being shielded from all extraneous light and that I use for about 90% of my shooting.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: BJL on May 09, 2005, 10:31:39 am
I was converted to lens hoods and away from prophylactic use of UV filters by one of Michael's articles; the combined advantages of physical lens protection, flare reduction, and avoidance of possibly image quality degradation from an unnecessary UV filter win out over the few seconds of extra effort when changing lenses. The hood does have to go away when I use a polarizing filter, which is the only filter I use with my DSLR.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: Paul Sumi on May 09, 2005, 04:09:29 pm
Lens hoods are good for more than blocking stray light.  In inclement weather it can help keep those pesky drops of moisture off the front element.  Obviously, this works best with the deep hoods for teles.

Paul
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: didger on May 09, 2005, 04:38:44 pm
So, what do all you ABSOLUTELY ALWAYS folks do about ultrawides or wide angle zooms?  The hoods that come with such lenses are more cosmetic than functional and are absolutely no good for protecting against flare, stray light, rain, or anything whatsoever.  Do you make huge custom hoods, or what?  Or do you use those mickey mouse hoods the lens came with just to be ALWAYS compliant?
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: Christian on May 10, 2005, 12:20:45 am
I use lens hoods most of the time (i.e., not when shooting indoors or with lenses with highly recessed elements). I don't know how much this stops flare (I feel it helps sometimes) but it definitely helps protect your lenses when working quickly in the field. And the convenience is far better than with lens caps that have to be continually clipped and unclipped. Perhaps for someone who spends their time in Internet chatrooms gushing about their latest camera, a lens cap is a suitable solution. I think for most people who use their cameras for shooting photos, it's a waste of time.

My only gripe about lens hoods (apart from their minor added bulk) is their ridiculous cost. But I think we're all used to over-inflated prices for anything related to photography.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: Willowroot on May 11, 2005, 11:46:01 am
Quote
Zooms, by their very nature, will never have a lens shade that is optimal.
What about: http://www.adorama.com/CKMBHA.html (http://www.adorama.com/CKMBHA.html)
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: TBrownlee on June 25, 2005, 02:43:34 am
I use a lens shade most of the time with whatever format I'm using at the time.

The best arguments are reducing flare & protecting the lens. I have cracked two shades on my Bronica system as the camera swung forward & clobbered the rock I was climbing up.

On the other hand, the shade on my F828 sometimes obscures light from the pop-up flash, which is set sort of far back on the lens barrel. I will remove it in these instances, as well as when I'm shooting macro.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: michel on May 08, 2005, 11:18:56 am
always use the lens hoods. it reduces lensflares and protects the lens against damage by knocking.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: Lisa Nikodym on May 08, 2005, 05:07:05 pm
Quote
The main purpose of a lens hood is to keep direct sunlight from shining on the glass.

I thought that a second main purpose was to keep stray light (not just direct sun) from coming in at an angle where it doesn't directly hit the sensor/film but can still reflect around inside the lens, causing a general reduction in contrast...?

Lisa
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on May 08, 2005, 09:20:23 pm
I do it Didger's way, but with lens hoods as well. Even if you use a hood, it's important to make sure no direct sun is getting by it and hitting the glass. In other words, don't assume everything will be fine because you are using a hood.

Lens hoods for zooms are especially marginal, because they have to be designed for the wide-angle end of the zoom range, and thus provide much less protection than you could safely use at the other end.

I think Lisa is right, too: If your camera is in the open on alightly overcast day (no direct sun), a good lens hood (or Didger's hat, or both) can make a big difference in the amount of flare.

Eric
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: on May 09, 2005, 09:54:04 am
I use it AT ALL TIMES for both flare and physical protection. I once tested the physical protection issue unintentionally. It works….

Happy shooting,
Yakim.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: didger on May 10, 2005, 07:47:09 am
Quote
time in Internet chatrooms gushing about their latest camera
Wow, roode doode, who rattled your chain? I'm sure that I spend more time in the field than any two other people on this forum or anywhere else and that I also get to more challenging places more of the time than anyone else anywhere.  My 1ds looks like a worn out scarred battle tank after less than a year of constant heavy use and many thousands of frames shot.  It's the need not to carry a cubic centimeter or gram of extra volume or weight on long difficult cross country backpacking shoots that has made me favor lens caps rather than useless shallow hoods for wide angle lenses.  Ever carry a lens with a big hood in a pants pocket (for convenient quick access)?  I find, however, that I'm rarely so rushed that I can't take time to remove a lens cap (fraction of a second?).  Your utterly unprovoked and inappropriate sarcasm makes me think that you might find a more congenial environment for your forum style on DPR than here.

Sorry I don't have much time to keep gushing in this chatroom just now.  I'm about to leave for a trip to Yosemite and surrounding Sierra foothills for a few weeks and then it's back to more daily JT NP rock scrambling and shooting while the flowers are still happening here and then it's back to more high altitude snow backpacking shooting and then.....on and on...
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: boku on May 11, 2005, 12:51:50 pm
Quote
Quote
Zooms, by their very nature, will never have a lens shade that is optimal.
What about: http://www.adorama.com/CKMBHA.html (http://www.adorama.com/CKMBHA.html)
Yup, I thought about bellows hoods after I wrote that. You picked up on that. I used to use those things in the 70's to make "matte boxes" for my small army of Wedding Photographers.

Whatever made them pick red for the outer color? That would scare most people, animals, and probably plants. Not exactly discrete. Observation: Cokin = French. No chance of me understanding.
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: glenndavyphoto on May 09, 2005, 02:57:10 pm
Always, always, always.  The inconvenience of the hood far outweighs the "inconvenience" of a garbage shot from flare you didn't notice when taking the shot.  Light can come at you from all sorts of angles you never even thought of besides the sun, ESP if you shoot near water or on rainy days.  I will sometimes use a supplementary shade as well (I keep a spare large grey card handy for such needs) if the hood isn't quite doing it for the sun (i.e. shooting lightly obliquely into the sun but not wanting to include the sun itself).

Glenn
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: Paul Sumi on May 09, 2005, 04:53:15 pm
Quote
Do you make huge custom hoods, or what?  Or do you use those mickey mouse hoods the lens came with just to be ALWAYS compliant?
Ralph Waldo Emerson said, in part, that "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds..."   ::

I mostly use the provided lens hood on my ultra-wide zoom.  Its greatest utility is to keep the front element of the lens from contacting whatever surface I may set the camera down on.

Paul
Title: Who uses lens hoods?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 10, 2005, 10:12:10 am
Same thing here.

Have always thought that I would try to come up with a way to improve the hood efficiency on the long end of zooms with some custom system... but never took the time to build  something practical... :-)

Regards,
Bernard