Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on September 18, 2008, 06:49:43 pm
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There have been new appearances of rumours about a possible 40MP Nikon modular medium format camera and could be featuring a 54 x 54mm square sensor.
The camera would be announced on Nov 8th together with a set of new MF lenses including a 24 mm f4, 45 mm f2.8 and 85 mm f2.8 + one zoom (65-180 f2.8) and 2 longer lenses (135 f2.0 and 200 f2.8).
This is obviously just a rumour and I have no insider information to either validate it or bust it.
Cheers,
Bernard
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are you starting this rumor or did you get it from somewhere else?
if the latter tell us where.
cheers
m*
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Bern........
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you didn't see this old thread already?
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=27733 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27733)
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www.nikonrumors.com
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are you starting this rumor or did you get it from somewhere else?
if the latter tell us where.
cheers
m*
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=222481\")
Not sure why small me would be starting a rumour, but if I were influential enough to influence downwards the price of MF cameras I probably would.
Here are the information sources:
[a href=\"http://www.nikonrumors.com/]http://www.nikonrumors.com/[/url] (search the page for "MX lenses").
On top of that a mobile phone shot picture of a page in Japanese showing a multiple resolution configuration chart including FX (current D3 resolution) and MX (6380 x 6380) was also circulated. The right hald of that page was a bit dodgy though.
On top of that several comments were made by Thom Hogan about a Nikon event on Nov 8th during which a modular high end camera would be announced (he didn't comment explicitely on it being medium format).
There were also other reports about a Nikon pres "special event that hasn't had an equal" on Saturday Nov 8th from Dutch sources.
Still rumours obviously.
Cheers,
Bernard
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you didn't see this old thread already?
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=27733 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27733)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222486\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I had read some of that thread, but it was mostly about a Mamiya rangefinder, right?
I wouldn't be half as interested in that as I would in a pure Nikon MF system. Think of the quality of the design and of the lenses...
Cheers,
Bernard
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I hope it's true. But I hope it's NOT a rangefinder. That would just be... stupid.
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who here shoots nikon?
*raises hand*
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Isn't that just the best way to slow down MFDB sales.....? Of course, if its true, that would be great too....
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I had read some of that thread, but it was mostly about a Mamiya rangefinder, right?
Bernard, you missed the best part of the rumor, namely that the new MX camera would be a rangefinder similar in size to the Mamiya 6, with a new mount for the MX lenses, and an adapter for Nikon FX and DX lenses. Use of FX and DX lenses, via the adapter, would result in an in-camera crop, similar to DX on the D3. I love the rumor - I'm just not sure I believe it. If it weren't for one well known person who seems to think it's not all hot air, I would totally blow this rumor off as pure fantasy.
Isn't that just the best way to slow down MFDB sales.....? Of course, if its true, that would be great too....
I don't think Nikon cares too much about existing MFDB sales. MFDB sales are peanuts compared to their sales volumes. If this is true, I suspect their plans are a lot more ambitious.
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Isn't that just the best way to slow down MFDB sales.....? Of course, if its true, that would be great too....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222517\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well, Nov 8th is fairly soon, and the newly announced backs will probably mostly not be available by then anyway...
I would personnally hate to buy a 30.000 US$ back only to find out shortly after than Nikon is releasing something cheaper.
Anyway, rumours are just that. Whether you decide to believe them or not is your own decision.
Cheers,
Bernard
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who here shoots nikon?
*raises hand*
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222515\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sure, I confess that I do. But I also shoot a Mamiya ZD, and its value will be next to zero the minute Nikon announces something like that...
Cheers,
Bernard
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Bernard, you missed the best part of the rumor, namely that the new MX camera would be a rangefinder similar in size to the Mamiya 6, with a new mount for the MX lenses, and an adapter for Nikon FX and DX lenses. Use of FX and DX lenses, via the adapter, would result in an in-camera crop, similar to DX on the D3.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222534\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Indeed, I missed that part. I would be surprised if it were a rangefinder, but you never know.
As far as believing or not... you have to wonder. What could come next after the current crop of 20+ MP FF bodies that brings actual value to photographers while allowing camera manufacturers to keep making big money?
The current lenses are becoming the limiting factor on 35 mm.
Nikon has publicly declared that their intention is to focus on high end and smaller volumes.
So all in all, it would make sense IMHO for them to try to expand the existing categories and find real ways to deliver better values for photographers looking for even better image quality without spending 40.000+ US$ for a full system.
People have been willing to pay 8.000 US$ for a 1ds3/ZD, there is little doubt that at least the same amount of people would be willing to pay 10.000 US$ for a medium format body with all the advantages of a Nikon make.
It is at least plausible enough to consider that Nikon might think of doing such things. They have made very bold moves before, the D1 started the DSLR revolution and cut the price of the super high end Kodak in 4 for instance,... would a Nikon MX body be that different?
Cheers,
Bernard
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The camera would be announced on Nov 8th together with a set of new MF lenses including a 24 mm f4, 45 mm f2.8 and 85 mm f2.8
Coincidentally the same focal length of their revamped tilt shift lineup
The rumored zoom would also require a feat of engineering to work in the rangefinder
format I would imagine but then again Contax had one for their G1/G2 35mm rangefinders.
Mark
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Coincidentally the same focal length of their revamped tilt shift lineup
The rumored zoom would also require a feat of engineering to work in the rangefinder
format I would imagine but then again Contax had one for their G1/G2 35mm rangefinders.
Mark
As long as we're having a little fun here, I'm thinking a simple, hi-rez, electronic viewfinder using live view off the sensor, as well as contrast-based AF and metering off the sensor. No expensive mirror mechanism or pentaprism, no seperate AF and metering sensors, and no bulky mirror box - just a small body containing a circuit board with the sensor, processor, storage, servo mechanism for the in-lense AF motors, a big LCD on the back, controls, and a battery.
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sounds like a Leica 8.2 killer if you asked me
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sounds like a Leica 8.2 killer if you asked me
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222582\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Didn't the M8.2 kill, itself ^^ ?
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As long as we're having a little fun here, I'm thinking a simple, hi-rez, electronic viewfinder using live view off the sensor, as well as contrast-based AF and metering off the sensor. No expensive mirror mechanism or pentaprism, no seperate AF and metering sensors, and no bulky mirror box - just a small body containing a circuit board with the sensor, processor, storage, servo mechanism for the in-lense AF motors, a big LCD on the back, controls, and a battery.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222580\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mort, I think your right on the numbers. Add in a touch screen on the rear lcd for focal point and you've got the perfect camera, my opinion.
The thing that makes this work is large chips and I understand the kinks and costs are somewhat worked out in silicon stitching.
It would be more like a modern day press camera. Think Graflex/Technika with out thinking upside down, rev L-R.
The new term is "EVIL" Electronic Viewfinder Interchangable Lenses
bob
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I just want nikon to make a new 85mm f/1.4
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I just want nikon to make a new 85mm f/1.4
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222668\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Right-on! Update the 1.4 line with AFS & VR (including VR on the 28 please) and I am very happy.
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I seriously doubt they would upgrade the 28 f/1.4
it's like the 50mm f/1.2, a dying race.
Sigma updated their 50mm f/1.4 with an updated (x2) price point so I think nikon is definitely looking at the 50mm f/1.4 for an update, but the price tag will be probably $800-$1000.
An updated 85mm with VR would price it $1200-$1700.
I would love to see the MX work on FX cameras with a converter. this would mean that a 70-200 MX wouldn't vingette so bad. Actually, I love the 70-200VR, but the vingetting on the FX sensor should be nikon's #1 priority right now.
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I hope the rumored electronic viewfinder camera is true - for a lot of landscape/nature applications, it would be absolutely perfect - assuming that the screen is good enough, but a 4-5 inch version of the present D3 screen (resolution scaled with size, so 1024x768 or so) would be great. Such LCDs already exist in the video world. The only really new technology in it would be how to get the sensor to read out full time without heating up (sensor heating has inspired some MF digital back makers to put fans in their backs, and that's without live view). Unless they do something radical, it will also have a prodigious appetite for batteries, leaving that huge sensor in live view (I'm sure it'll use some sort of reduced resolution readout, so it doesn't have to process huge images for the live view).
Also remember that this will be a SLOW focusing camera unless they rig some sort of beam-splitter for phase-detect AF. The advantage of the contrast AF for more deliberate work would be that it could effectively HAVE thousands of focusing points - put the cursor wherever you want it and it'll focus there. It may turn out to be a mostly manual focus camera (fine with me), with AF (or perhaps more accurately called semi-automatic focus - it focuses, but you decide exactly where) as an assist. I hope they come out with some tilt/shift lenses for it, because that big screen would sure make a nice ground glass for the world's first one piece all-digital view camera. Unlike phase-detect AF, contrast detect would even work on a T/S lens if they wanted it to (due to the flexible focus points). Of course the great advantage is that it could also be shot on a monopod or handheld, just like a Graflex, but unlike just about any view camera since then. What's old is new again, if Nikon manages to introduce a camera that is really a cross between a Mamiya 6 and a Graflex or Linhof (with a bit of Phase One DNA as well!)...
-Dan
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I would love to see the MX work on FX cameras with a converter. this would mean that a 70-200 MX wouldn't vingette so bad. Actually, I love the 70-200VR, but the vingetting on the FX sensor should be nikon's #1 priority right now.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222681\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No reason to need a converter. F Mount would work great on a larger format camera, as long as the lenses are reasonable speed. High speed lenses are the only ones unworkable on the full frame of a MX sensor. Nikon knows how to make lenses with a large image circle. My large format nikkors are spectacular on 4x5.
The f-mount could be used intact. Any older lens would work and the camera would only use the appropriate area of the sensor for FX and DX lenses.
And MX lenses should also work in the reverse way (MX on FX camera).
come on Nikon,
bob
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I hope the rumored electronic viewfinder camera is true - for a lot of landscape/nature applications, it would be absolutely perfect - assuming that the screen is good enough, but a 4-5 inch version of the present D3 screen (resolution scaled with size, so 1024x768 or so) would be great. Such LCDs already exist in the video world. The only really new technology in it would be how to get the sensor to read out full time without heating up (sensor heating has inspired some MF digital back makers to put fans in their backs, and that's without live view). Unless they do something radical, it will also have a prodigious appetite for batteries, leaving that huge sensor in live view (I'm sure it'll use some sort of reduced resolution readout, so it doesn't have to process huge images for the live view).
Also remember that this will be a SLOW focusing camera unless they rig some sort of beam-splitter for phase-detect AF. The advantage of the contrast AF for more deliberate work would be that it could effectively HAVE thousands of focusing points - put the cursor wherever you want it and it'll focus there. It may turn out to be a mostly manual focus camera (fine with me), with AF (or perhaps more accurately called semi-automatic focus - it focuses, but you decide exactly where) as an assist. I hope they come out with some tilt/shift lenses for it, because that big screen would sure make a nice ground glass for the world's first one piece all-digital view camera. Unlike phase-detect AF, contrast detect would even work on a T/S lens if they wanted it to (due to the flexible focus points). Of course the great advantage is that it could also be shot on a monopod or handheld, just like a Graflex, but unlike just about any view camera since then. What's old is new again, if Nikon manages to introduce a camera that is really a cross between a Mamiya 6 and a Graflex or Linhof (with a bit of Phase One DNA as well!)...
-Dan
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=222684\")
if the rumored lens list is right they already have the first 3 lenses done on the form of PC T/S. Wonder how much coverage it has? Anyway the glass is done, may need to go into a new lens barrel.
AF-S MX Nikkor 24 f4.0G
AF-S MX Nikkor 45 f2.8G
AF-S MX NIkkor 85 f2.8G
AF-S MX Nikkor 135 f2.0G ED
AF-S MX Nikkor 200 F2.8G ED
AF-S MX Nikkor 65-180 f2.8G ED IF"
also, they introduced a touch screen on a P&S at 'kina.
[a href=\"http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/digitalcameras/0,39001469,62044626-2,00.htm]http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/digitalcamera...044626-2,00.htm[/url]
S60
bob
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I hope the rumored electronic viewfinder camera is true - for a lot of landscape/nature applications, it would be absolutely perfect - assuming that the screen is good enough, but a 4-5 inch version of the present D3 screen (resolution scaled with size, so 1024x768 or so)
I HATE ELECTRONIC VIEWFINDERS. they are terrible. I got DSLRs and MF to be able to see through the optics. Also a 1024x768 would be an energy hog. Video cameras and UMPCs that have these screens power them off sizeable batteries to get 1-2 hours and MASSIVE batteries to get 3.5hrs. A MF, rangefinder, or DSLR with this screen would be either hindered but 1/3 the weight in batteries or very short battery life.
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I hope the rumored electronic viewfinder camera is true
To the best of my knowledge, there is no mention anywhere in all the "published" rumors of an electronic viewfinder. If you're referring to the post from me earlier in this thread where an electronic viewfinder was mentioned, that was just me dreaming. I made it up. It's what I would like to see. I did say "as long as we're having fun" to preface my comment.
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I HATE ELECTRONIC VIEWFINDERS. they are terrible.
True, they have their problems. But they also would simplify some things if they were used in this rumored MF camera. An optical rangefinder-type finder would have problems with framing all the different focal lengths, and framing zooms would be a nightmare. Electronic viewfinders solves this problem. Alternatively, if you go with a more traditional mirror and pentaprism viewfinder, you add considerable cost, size and weight. Electronic viewfinders solve this problem as well. So yes, they have their negatives. But they also have some compelling positives. And LCD technology for use in electronic viewfinders is getting better and better everyday, with very high pixel densities.
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I would love to see the MX work on FX cameras with a converter
Possibly, but that's not what the rumors are saying. The rumors are saying an MX body with a converter to allow it to use FX and DX lenses with in-camera cropping. Of course, if you like your version better, simply post that you heard it from your third cousin, and it will become part of the "official" rumor :-)
Rumors are rumors and nothing more. They're fun, but they're no substitute for reality :-)
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I HATE ELECTRONIC VIEWFINDERS. they are terrible. I got DSLRs and MF to be able to see through the optics. Also a 1024x768 would be an energy hog. Video cameras and UMPCs that have these screens power them off sizeable batteries to get 1-2 hours and MASSIVE batteries to get 3.5hrs. A MF, rangefinder, or DSLR with this screen would be either hindered but 1/3 the weight in batteries or very short battery life.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222696\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I agree wholeheartedly, but the LCD on the back of the D700 et al are really good. I don't think we talking the P&S crappy EV viewfinder, grain and all. I'm working with a ground glass on my Technika and I can see this being the modern equivalent (the LCD) if it were larger (4x4 or 5x5). You could auto loupe by doing the iphone 2 finger trick to closely examine a portion of the screen. Fixed focus points or my preference, touch the screen for point of perfect focus. Now that would be really useful.
Admittedly, I'm thinking like a view camera user here, but the camera would be a great tool for the landscape and studio user.
bob
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I was wondering about the battery issue as well - other than batteries, an electronic rangefinder seems to make a lot of sense (nice light camera with a huge sensor). I bet it would have to run off of something like the D2/D3 battery, and it would still go through them! While a D300 size battery would be nice, it would run down very quickly. It might not be as bad as the UMPC example suggests, though - a camera spends a lot of time idling between shots (LCD and sensor off, almost no power), and the only time it's actually doing anywhere near as much processing as an UMPC is when it's actively processing a shot. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it get something like 500-600 shots (running for a day with average screen use) off of a D3 battery - not great, but not unworkable either.
-Dan
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I was wondering about the battery issue as well - other than batteries, an electronic rangefinder seems to make a lot of sense (nice light camera with a huge sensor). I bet it would have to run off of something like the D2/D3 battery, and it would still go through them! While a D300 size battery would be nice, it would run down very quickly. It might not be as bad as the UMPC example suggests, though - a camera spends a lot of time idling between shots (LCD and sensor off, almost no power), and the only time it's actually doing anywhere near as much processing as an UMPC is when it's actively processing a shot. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it get something like 500-600 shots (running for a day with average screen use) off of a D3 battery - not great, but not unworkable either.
-Dan
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222733\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Even in metal, w/o the big mirror, mirror box and support structure, it would have to be fairly light and compact (compared to other MF dslr's). maybe it uses 2 D2x type batteries. Even with, I think it's a win-win.
bob
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nikon's new 50mm f/1.4
http://nikonrumors.com/2008/09/22/bang-bang.aspx (http://nikonrumors.com/2008/09/22/bang-bang.aspx)