Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: EPd on September 12, 2008, 04:46:48 pm

Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: EPd on September 12, 2008, 04:46:48 pm
Gone
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: Christopher on September 12, 2008, 05:03:23 pm
Quote
Today the German magazine Color-Foto published an article in their October issue about the updated M8, together with details about four new lenses: Noctilux f/0,95 50mm (aspherical), Elmar 3,8/24 (aspherical), Summilux 1,4/21 (aspherical) and a Summilux 1,4/24 (aspherical). Details about the publication here (in German):

http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Leica-M82...-neue-Objektive (http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Leica-M82-und-neue-Objektive)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221093\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


sry no comment, but what is leica thinking..... 5000 EURs for the "new" M8, 8000 for a lens and then again twice 5000 for a lens. Well I think that is the best way to go      bankruptcy.... way to go leica.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: Er1kksen on September 13, 2008, 08:56:34 am
So, being unable to read german or polish... what's new? The german article suggested a new top shutter speed of 1/8000, and the polish one repeated 1/4000 several times, but that's all I could really get out of it. Is there a change in sensor size? In controls?
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: tetsuo77 on September 13, 2008, 04:36:32 pm
Quote
Sensor is still the same. There is a new "snapshot-mode" with automatic shutter speed, auto-iso and auto-white balance. According to early Leica comments fastest time is 1/4000s and flash sync is 1/180s, while Color-Foto reports 1/8000s and 1/250s. The shutter is new. The M8.2 has a redesigned power switch and updated viewfinder. The black variant has a more resistant coating. The LCD has a scratch resistant sapphire cover glass. Price for the M8.2 is going to be €5000.-, while the M8 will be sold for €4000.-. The M8.2 comes in addition to the M8.

Prices of the new lenses: Noctilux f/0,95 50mm €8000.-, Elmar 3,8/24 €1800.-, Summilux 1,4/21 €5000.- and a Summilux 1,4/24 €5000.-.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221247\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Those are quite steep prices for such an unreliable system, aren´t they? Watch out, unreliable does not mean low quality. Unreliable as with no consistant results and not that good of a permformance [for a 12.000 euro system]. Specially, compared to, let me see...

Olympus E-420
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: kaelaria on September 13, 2008, 11:16:35 pm
WOW talk about suckers paying for a name....
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: canlogic on September 14, 2008, 09:58:32 am
I read on another site that the prices were actually US$
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: JohnBrew on September 14, 2008, 11:22:00 am
The current fast shutter speed is 1/8000. The new shutter is 1/4000. The new shutter addresses what many thought to be a too loud shutter sound and a rarer problem of shutter disintegration. I have actually used the 1/8000 shutter speed so I don't know that the upgrade is a true improvement. Note: the M8.2 improvements are available from Leica as an upgrade for existing M8's.
Addressing the viewfinder - hopefully they are putting in a larger magnification. I've been using a 1.25 viewfinder magnifier with mine which seems almost a universal requirement.
Still a great camera but I might go for a shutter upgrade just to increase the warranty another year (something Leica has added as a sop).
The lens prices seem to be in the stratosphere. Noct's have always been pricey but this is just crazy.

My dos centavos.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: DarkPenguin on September 15, 2008, 02:48:20 pm
I'm trying to figure out when one would use f0.95.  I presume when you want the front of the model's pores sharp but not the back.

At that price (8000 euros?) I'm sure MR will have two of them and wear them as pinky rings.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: barryfitzgerald on September 15, 2008, 04:27:40 pm
I wouldn't mind a Voigtlander Bessa R4a in digtal, wouldn't mind one in film either!
You would save a few $$/££ for sure ;-)
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: lovell on September 16, 2008, 12:47:23 pm
I don't get Leica M8, although I admire some of their lenses.  Leica should just stick to film bodies and lenses, things they make very good...leave the digital sensor thingies to the big dogs that know how to do it well.

Why do people buy BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, and Leica M8?  

It's their way of telling everyone else "I'm better then you".  ;-)
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: pprachun on September 16, 2008, 09:44:52 pm
Quote
Why do people buy BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, and Leica M8? 
It's their way of telling everyone else "I'm better then you".  ;-)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221785\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Maybe not everyone is satisfied with mediocrity?  -- Just a thought.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: BruceHouston on September 16, 2008, 10:36:42 pm
Quote
I don't get Leica M8, although I admire some of their lenses.  Leica should just stick to film bodies and lenses, things they make very good...leave the digital sensor thingies to the big dogs that know how to do it well.

Why do people buy BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, and Leica M8? 

It's their way of telling everyone else "I'm better then you".  ;-)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221785\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That is certainly not the case with this Mercedes owner.  Many who drive one for a week or two get hooked for life because they are such a joy to drive.  I recently passed down my 13-year old C280 with 240k miles to my teenage daughter and bought a 2000 E320 with 70k miles for $15k.  Talk about getting your cake and eating it too...  I must admit that maintenance is a bit pricey, though.

Anyway, nothing to do with status, for me anyway.  Not sure if the analogy holds for an M8.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: telyt on September 16, 2008, 11:01:25 pm
Quote
I don't get Leica M8, although I admire some of their lenses.  Leica should just stick to film bodies and lenses, things they make very good...leave the digital sensor thingies to the big dogs that know how to do it well.
Big dogs like Kodak and Jenoptik?  The makers of the M8's sensor and other thingies?
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: stever on September 16, 2008, 11:07:08 pm
see sept 19 Wall Street Journal re Leica's management and financial problems.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: lovell on September 17, 2008, 01:45:25 am
Quote
Big dogs like Kodak and Jenoptik?  The makers of the M8's sensor and other thingies?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221884\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Yea, Kodak left the DSLR market a few years ago...they're little dogs...
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: lovell on September 17, 2008, 01:48:49 am
Quote
Maybe not everyone is satisfied with mediocrity?  -- Just a thought.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221878\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well according to ConsumerReports.com the Mercedes brand has one of the most "mediocre" ratings for reliability, and durability.

The Toyota Camry is profoundly higher in reliability and loses much less in depreciation then any of the Mercedes.

Like I said, it's peoples way of saying "I'm better then you"....Me?  I'd rather perform true investments, like in real-estate rentals..and in fact I put so much $$ in rentals that all I could afford was a 2007 $12,800 Toyota Yaris...another car that rates higher in reliability then ANY Mercedes, to be sure.  Not bad for a middle-aged 48 year old guy yea?  I bought the rentals when the market crashed, and the pmts are paid entirely by the tenents....my neighbor?  Well, his lease pmt on his 700 series BMW (which he can't write off) with gas and insurance is over $1,000/month, and that 1 year old car is worth $15,000+ less today then when he bought it new...but hey, he's "better then me", yea?  I will say I love the looks of his car though...beautiful, and it drives like a freakin dream too!  In fact I would say that it drives around $7,000 better then a $24,000 Camry, yet it costs a heck of a lot more.....one day if I win the lottery and become truly rich (truly), then I too will have a 700 series brand new BMW sedan too...lol

Seriously, my point is that many people are so shallow, materialistic, and class-aware that they would rather buy a profoundly inferior super high priced vehicle over one that is profoundly more reliable and profoundly cheaper too.  I mean, what will the neighbors think, yea?  These idiots buy Range Rovers, Jaguars, and other very high priced inferior cars...amazing, to be sure.  I read a People Magazine study years ago that showed that more then 80% of the buyers of foreign made luxury high priced cars actually cannot afford them...this disease is found more in the USA then Europe, however...

Sorry for being way off topic....
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: pprachun on September 17, 2008, 06:27:11 am
Quote
$12,800 Toyota Yaris... $1,000/month, and that 1 year old car is worth $15,000+ less today then when he bought it new....   around $7,000 better then a $24,000 Camry, ...... become truly rich (truly), then I too will have a 700 series brand new BMW sedan too...lol
"Many people are so shallow, materialistic, and class-aware .....   These idiots buy Range Rovers, Jaguars, and other very high priced inferior cars...amazing, to be sure.  .... People Magazine study.
god I wish this was a psychology forum  
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: Rob C on September 17, 2008, 08:45:34 am
Quote
god I wish this was a psychology forum 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222012\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



But it is, my man, it is!

Rob C
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: lovell on September 17, 2008, 05:18:48 pm
Quote
god I wish this was a psychology forum 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222012\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'll summarize.

Some people believe a brand, a product, it's price, and/or being seen with same will fill the void that mommy and daddy could never instill.

It's about a sick society.  Consumerism.  Materialism.  Devoid of delayed gratification.  Defining one's self by what he wears, drives, or where one is seen.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: telyt on September 17, 2008, 09:49:38 pm
Quote
Yea, Kodak left the DSLR market a few years ago...they're little dogs...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221931\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Kodak sensors are used in some very high-end medium-format backs.  Big dog.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: Limosa on September 18, 2008, 06:31:31 am
this thread is sooo funny!

thanks, you just made my day.

(after I overcame my surprise of actually reading all this mumbling)

(and then actually replying to it... gosh - lemme get a life)
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: Gary Yeowell on September 18, 2008, 06:54:21 am
I really think Leica have lost the plot with the re badged M8.........  Polishing a turd comes to mind.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: pprachun on September 18, 2008, 08:32:10 am
Quote
I really think Leica have lost the plot with the re badged M8.........  Polishing a turd comes to mind.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222296\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Personally, I think it's time for me to purchase a Leica - v8 or 8.2.  I'm thinking of getting out of photography and into collectibles   .
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: Limosa on September 18, 2008, 09:05:17 am
Come on, give Leica a break. I for one sometimes do miss the 'touch & feel' of the M2 + 50/2.0 I used before going 5d. The M8 was a bit too early, were afraid of missing the show and came with something not really usable, for me at least.
But in a couple of years they'll have an M-something with a FF sensor so incredibly nicely built that it'll make you drool till your mouth is dry. Let's hope they survive untill then.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: Christopher on September 18, 2008, 09:58:36 am
Quote
Come on, give Leica a break. I for one sometimes do miss the 'touch & feel' of the M2 + 50/2.0 I used before going 5d. The M8 was a bit too early, were afraid of missing the show and came with something not really usable, for me at least.
But in a couple of years they'll have an M-something with a FF sensor so incredibly nicely built that it'll make you drool till your mouth is dry. Let's hope they survive untill then.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222326\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

They won't. A small company like Leica can't stand loosing so much sales. Leica lost over 40% in sales last year. If that goes on, which will, because nearly nobody is buying a nocti for 8000EURs..., they won't be around in two years. I really hope one of the bigger players takes the chance and buys Leica.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: NigelC on September 18, 2008, 12:49:34 pm
Speaking as an idiot who drives a totally reliable Land Rover D3 (same as Range Rover Sport under the skin), as far as I recall Jaguars did pretty well in JD Power surveys

And your point is what?
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: DarkPenguin on September 18, 2008, 01:05:17 pm
Quote
Speaking as an idiot who drives a totally reliable Land Rover D3 (same as Range Rover Sport under the skin), as far as I recall Jaguars did pretty well in JD Power surveys

And your point is what?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222393\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jaguar's reliability improved greatly after Ford bought them.  I understand that Ford was pretty horrified when they saw the production line.

I generally mistake Jaguars for Hyundai's these days.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: NigelC on September 19, 2008, 07:12:08 am
I generally mistake Jaguars for Hyundai's these days.


Should be pretty undemanding when it comes to cameras then
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: Paul Kay on September 19, 2008, 08:49:47 am
Well, I'm using an M8 professionally and one of the nice things about it (apart from size, weight, optics) is that people don't notice you taking pictures - surprisingly few seem to know about Leicas these days and many people seem to thinks its simply a compact. Hardly such a status symbol - except perhaps amongst some photographers.

Mine's been reliable, takes excellent images and I charge the same for them as those taken by my (more expensive) Canon! Oh yes, and I can use 50 year old (70 year old with a simple adapter) lenses on it too - many very good and not that expensive. Any more comments?
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: DarkPenguin on September 19, 2008, 09:08:39 am
Quote
I generally mistake Jaguars for Hyundai's these days.
Should be pretty undemanding when it comes to cameras then
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222617\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Did I really need to put "off topic" on my post?
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: photoshutter on November 05, 2008, 11:54:05 pm
Just received my new m8, great camera, image in a same quality with 1dII or better (very good shadow range), but with much smaller in size, I like it a lot, very easy to use, I'm using only one lens, 40mm summicron-c
which I like, no need more, for unfamiliar faces is the best tool, 1d scary people in big, like machine gun. it is professional tool, but Leica need to add another SD slot, for back up files.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: situgrrl on November 06, 2008, 04:05:26 pm
Since someone else dragged this thread up, I've got 2c too!

Firstly, Photoshutter - congrats - I'm jeleous.

Secondly - Leica - what are you playing at?  For the sake of argument, let's all agree that Leicas are "the greatest camera in the world."  Now, that being the case, you would expect their primary audience to be "the greatest photographers in the world" - or at least those who aspire to be.  Surely such people would find a snap-shot mode rather - insulting?!  Part of the brilliance of Leica for me is the simplicity - this is another mode to confuse things when shooting in a hurry - the thing Leica's excel at.

Thirdly - Sure, you can buy a full frame Canon or Nikon and have change for 2 lenses for the price of an M8 body - but the people that suggest this don't get "it" - and never ever will at the price point.  Contrary to what so many seem to think, the 5D or whatever is not a close competitor to the M8 - the nearest Canon to it is the G10 - which suffers chronic shutter lag in comparison.  (I say this having shot with neither, but comparing a G5 to an M4-P).

People talk about the loss to photography is Leica were to go under but the simple fact is, the loss is already apparent.  The red dot means squat except ludicrous prices but in jacking them up so high what is lost the whole style of photography that they facilitated.  

If a 2B pencil cost £500 we would still have oil painting....but sketching becomes tough.

I know that Cosina are still making them for film - and I know I'm in a tiny minority still shooting it - and the fact is, I don't want to be for most things and shoot less as a result.  The kids enrolling on PJ courses or taking their first jobs in the media have never known anything but digital behemoths and, unless someone steps up, never will.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: photoshutter on November 06, 2008, 04:44:52 pm
What I think is m8 is better than m8.2. Why? cause 1/8000 speed with 1/250 flash sinchro is better than silenced shutter, snap mode and hardened glass, for me at least, again, I need two SD card slots.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: marcmccalmont on November 06, 2008, 08:47:40 pm
Quote from: DarkPenguin
I'm trying to figure out when one would use f0.95.  I presume when you want the front of the model's pores sharp but not the back.

At that price (8000 euros?) I'm sure MR will have two of them and wear them as pinky rings.

My Dad had an early screw fit Canon f1.0 lens in his case, when asked about it he mumbled about taking a squad of Marines into Cuba to take pictures of Russian trawlers at night.
Marc
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: Slough on November 07, 2008, 02:42:43 pm
Quote from: Christopher
They won't. A small company like Leica can't stand loosing so much sales. Leica lost over 40% in sales last year. If that goes on, which will, because nearly nobody is buying a nocti for 8000EURs..., they won't be around in two years. I really hope one of the bigger players takes the chance and buys Leica.

Leica do a lot more besides cameras. Leica is one of the top 4 makers of laboratory and industrial microscopes. Leica binoculars and spotting scopes are top of the pile. And they have other products too.

I don't doubt that Leica glass is very nice indeed. But one thing I notice is that in Leica online forums, all to often owners post incredibly mundane images, which receive 'wow' comments. I know that is common in online photo forums, but when the camera and lens cost as much as many cars (automobiles for anyone across the pond), you might expect the user's skills to be rather well developed.
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: pete_truman on November 07, 2008, 03:48:25 pm
Quote from: situgrrl
Secondly - Leica - what are you playing at?  For the sake of argument, let's all agree that Leicas are "the greatest camera in the world."  Now, that being the case, you would expect their primary audience to be "the greatest photographers in the world" - or at least those who aspire to be.  Surely such people would find a snap-shot mode rather - insulting?!

That's for the celebs who acquire a Leica thinking its the best camera that money can buy but then find it is too complex for them to use...
Title: Leica M8.2 announced
Post by: Misirlou on November 07, 2008, 04:08:50 pm
Quote from: Paul Kay
Well, I'm using an M8 professionally and one of the nice things about it (apart from size, weight, optics) is that people don't notice you taking pictures - surprisingly few seem to know about Leicas these days and many people seem to thinks its simply a compact. Hardly such a status symbol - except perhaps amongst some photographers.

Mine's been reliable, takes excellent images and I charge the same for them as those taken by my (more expensive) Canon! Oh yes, and I can use 50 year old (70 year old with a simple adapter) lenses on it too - many very good and not that expensive. Any more comments?

I've had the same experience with other old-looking cameras. About ten years ago, I was shooting a group of 20 friends with a Rolleiflex TLR. A guy said "Hey, my grandmother used to have a box camera too." I love using TLRs for candid shots, esp. in 3rd world countries: A lot of people don't understand that you can take a picture from a camera you're looking into from above.

All this talk of comparing the M8 to a modern DSLR misses the point, as far as I'm concerned. I suspect many M8 buyers are just looking for a way to shoot digital with their existing Leica lenses. I hate seeing my favorite old Hassy and Leica lenses sit idle right now, but I can't afford an M8 or a digital back for the Hassys.

And those of us who have Leica gear didn't all get it just to satisfy some sick Freudian issue either. What I paid for my entire Leica kit years ago was pretty trivial. Replacing it with the latest Canon L gear would cost a whole lot more now, even accounting for inflation.