Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: bjanes on September 03, 2008, 07:45:08 am
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Yesterday Nick Rains posted a message concerning the possible release date for CS4 and received a nasty rebuke from Jeff Schewe, who accused him of breaking or being complicit in breaking a nondisclosure agreement with Adobe and suggested that he should be banned from the forum. Nick maintained his innocence and received support from several forum members, but then the site was scrubbed clean of all references to the thread.
Shown below is all I could recover last night concerning this thread:
"Nick Rains. post Today, 02:24 AM. Post #1. regular * * Group: Members ... Just an FYI - the full CS4 suite including Photoshop CS4 will be released on ...
luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27639&mode=threaded&pid=218846 -"
Bill
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Nick wrote to me last night and asked that I delete the post. He said that he had learned that he had been in error in posting the information to begin with and would like the problem to be reduced. I therefore deleted the post as requested.
It was as simple as that. We now return you to the X-Files.
Michael
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I don't think he should be banned but I agree with suppressing nthat post. As the publisher of this forum, Michael has the legal liability of not enabling a breech of contract (NDA). One might argue that he might have been more transparent about this but to most of us this is self-evident.
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Well it turns out there was nothing wrong about what he posted, and Jeff owes him a couple apologies: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10031200-...HeadlinesArea.0 (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10031200-92.html?tag=newsLatestHeadlinesArea.0)
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And
http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=1446 (http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=1446)
Cheers,
Kumar
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Well it turns out there was nothing wrong about what he posted, and Jeff owes him a couple apologies: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10031200-...HeadlinesArea.0 (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10031200-92.html?tag=newsLatestHeadlinesArea.0)
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=219147\")
Also, the launch on Sept 23 has been announced on the main [a href=\"http://www.adobe.com/]Adobe Web Site[/url]. You can even sign up to view the announcement on the web via Flashplayer. It seems like it is Jeff who has the wrong information.
Bill
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Also, the launch on Sept 23 has been announced on the main Adobe Web Site (http://www.adobe.com/). You can even sign up to view the announcement on the web via Flashplayer. It seems like it is Jeff who has the wrong information.
Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219150\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
But--it appears that Nick himself asked Michael to delete the post--and---there's nothing about him being 'banned' for goodness sake. Just that the post was deleted at his request. Either other people don't read all the posts or just choose to ignore some of them.
Diane
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Is it actually being released or are they just giving a preview?
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But--it appears that Nick himself asked Michael to delete the post--and---there's nothing about him being 'banned' for goodness sake. Just that the post was deleted at his request. Either other people don't read all the posts or just choose to ignore some of them.
Diane
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219168\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Diane,
The thread where Jeff Schewe suggested that Nick be banned from the forum has been deleted by Michael and apparently it is you who have not read all the posts. Did you read the entire thread before it was deleted?
Bill
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Is it actually being released or are they just giving a preview?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=219172\")
According to a comment on the [a href=\"http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10031200-92.html]CNet Post[/url], Adobe is only offering a preview of CS4 on that date, and the actual release date has not been announced.
Bill
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According to a comment on the CNet Post (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10031200-92.html), Adobe is only offering a preview of CS4 on that date, and the actual release date has not been announced.
Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219192\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not that Jeff wasn't being an overreacting @&&#*!= but he appears to have been technically right.
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And thank you for the clarification. There has to be something seriously cool in CS4 to get me to buy it. Since LR2 I've barely gone into CS3.
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Jeff Schewe's general overbearingness, nastiness and arrogance has really soured this forum for me. Not that he would care one iota.
It's a pity he has to project such an unpleasant persona. Polar opposite to Bruce Fraser, RIP.
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Jeff Schewe's general overbearingness, nastiness and arrogance has really soured this forum for me. Not that he would care one iota.
It's a pity he has to project such an unpleasant persona. Polar opposite to Bruce Fraser, RIP.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219222\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I for one will never again buy from LL anything Jeff Schewe is associated with, nor will I buy any of his books.
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Jeff Schewe's general overbearingness, nastiness and arrogance has really soured this forum for me. Not that he would care one iota.
It's a pity he has to project such an unpleasant persona. Polar opposite to Bruce Fraser, RIP.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219222\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I, for one, enjoy Schewe-bacca's direct style. C'mon people, it's the internet - seems different norms of behavior exist here than in face-to-face contact.
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Jeff Schewe provides a ton of information. One can cope with his occasional prickliness.
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I, for one, enjoy Schewe-bacca's direct style. C'mon people, it's the internet - seems different norms of behavior exist here than in face-to-face contact.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219243\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
In the deleted thread, Mr Schewe suggested that the original poster "go out on the freeway and play with the oncoming cars" or something to that affect. A direct, no-nonsense posting style is one thing, but mean-spirited, nasty personal attacks are another.
If I were Epson or Adobe (or Reichmann for that matter), I would re-think whether I really want somebody like that associated with me or my company, even in an "unoffocial" capacity.
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"In the deleted thread, Mr Schewe suggested that the original poster "go out on the freeway and play with the oncoming cars" or something to that affect."
That is a disturbing comment from a person that has a professional relationship with this site.
Steve
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Diane,
The thread where Jeff Schewe suggested that Nick be banned from the forum has been deleted by Michael and apparently it is you who have not read all the posts. Did you read the entire thread before it was deleted?
Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219187\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, I did. Michael (above post) says absolutely nothing about Nick being banned--Nick called Michael and asked for the thread to be deleted. Yes, I read Jeff's comment asking for him to be banned BUT--that didn't happen one has to assume from Michael's own post. The thread that Michael deleted was also the same one where Nick announced PS 4 date, so obviously that whole thread had to be deleted if anything was (including Jeff's comment). Have you seen anything about anyone being banned by Michael--he certainly stated it pretty clearly of what happened and why---and basically said--move on.
My post was in reference to Nick being banned (not) and why the thread was deleted (by request--not of Jeff's).
Diane
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Love him or hate him, none of us would be where we are today without Jeff's generous contributions to the art and craft of photography.
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Love him or hate him, none of us would be where we are today without Jeff's generous contributions to the art and craft of photography.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219260\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
None of us, why ? Please explain.....
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None of us, why ? Please explain.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219270\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You're kidding, right?
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Just to set the record straight...
- I got a press release from Adobe's PR dept. about the Sept 23 announcement.
- I double-checked if it was OK to share the information and was told in writing that it was.
- Press releases from PR depts mean that the releaser wants publicity so I shared the release here.
- Mr Schewe unloaded on me.
- I figured that he cast enough doubt on my info for me to check further, and in the meantime I asked Michael to remove the thread in case someone at Adobe AU was in serious error. I planned to re-post a clarification but the time difference from Australia to the US means I have just started my day. I have been silent for no other reason than being asleep!
So, as it turn out my information was correct and my public discussion of it was also correct.
Some confusion, if I can call it that, lay in the wording of the press release which used the terms 'launch' and 'release'. I took it to mean actual release, not the announcement of a future release. I used the same words in my post which Mr Schewe took at face value and reacted accordingly.
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Just to set the record straight...
- I got a press release from Adobe's PR dept. about the Sept 23 announcement.
- I double-checked if it was OK to share the information and was told in writing that it was.
- Press releases from PR depts mean that the releaser wants publicity so I shared the release here.
- Mr Schewe unloaded on me.
- I figured that he cast enough doubt on my info for me to check further, and in the meantime I asked Michael to remove the thread in case someone at Adobe AU was in serious error. I planned to re-post a clarification but the time difference from Australia to the US means I have just started my day. I have been silent for no other reason than being asleep!
So, as it turn out my information was correct and my public discussion of it was also correct.
Some confusion, if I can call it that, lay in the wording of the press release which used the terms 'launch' and 'release'. I took it to mean actual release, not the announcement of a future release. I used the same words in my post which Mr Schewe took at face value and reacted accordingly.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219284\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thank you, Nick! Please keep the information coming.
It is not unusual that the press releases occur "down under" before we see them here in the U.S., if for no other reason than the time lag when we are sleeping. I, for one, work late and very much appreciate the early "heads up."
Best regards,
Bruce
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You're kidding, right?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219275\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No not kidding. As I said, please enlighten us all.
Thanks
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Love him or hate him, none of us would be where we are today without Jeff's generous contributions to the art and craft of photography.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219260\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No question and his contribution to the tutorials is terrific. It just seems to me that recently Jeff's post here are trending to "snark" and ad hominem rather than responding in a positive and helpful manner. It must be tiresome reading some of the stupidity that I and others post but that's life.
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Jeff Schewe provides a ton of information. One can cope with his occasional prickliness.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219245\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You put a lot of pressure on that "L" 8-)
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Jeff Schewe's general overbearingness, nastiness and arrogance has really soured this forum for me. Not that he would care one iota.
It's a pity he has to project such an unpleasant persona. Polar opposite to Bruce Fraser, RIP.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219222\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Jeff is one of the reasons that I stopped using this forum on a regular basis.
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So, as it turn out my information was correct and my public discussion of it was also correct.
To the extent that what Nick wrote and Adobe AU said, Nick did have the authorization to post what he posted. I've said as much to him in both the deleted thread and in IM. To that extent, I was wrong and Nick was right. However, I'm pretty sure Adobe AU jumped the gun because those people under NDA have an embargo date of Sept, 23, 2008 and we have to respect that.
So, what Adobe AU did was undercut everybody who HAS respected their NDAs. It's pretty frustrating for those people who do respect NDAs to have the company who we signed them with ignore the date and make their own early announcements. But hey, it's their company and they can do what they like...however, those of us under NDA still can't say anything regarding whatever that WASN'T in the announcement (which is to say I can't really comment on the "accuracy" of Adobe AU's announcement) which relates to what Nick says here...
Some confusion, if I can call it that, lay in the wording of the press release which used the terms 'launch' and 'release'. I took it to mean actual release, not the announcement of a future release. I used the same words in my post which Mr Schewe took at face value and reacted accordingly.
So, all I can say is that Adobe has said they will ANNOUNCE CS4 on Sept 23rd...as far as I've heard, they HAVEN'T said when it'll be released...although past history suggests they'll try to ship at least US versions in 30-45 days (more or less). So, we'll see...
As to the rest of the hand wringing, well, I'm a big boy, if you care to dish it out, I'm perfectly happy to take it (as long as you're prepared to take it when I decide to dish it out :~) I've apologized to Nick and I'll apologize to Mike for this becoming a "thing". But that's about the extent of my apologizing if ya know what I mean...
Have a nice day...
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But that's about the extent of my apologizing if ya know what I mean...
Good enough for me...
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Good job, gentlemen!
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Excellent; hopefully this is now behind us; this thread was starting to generate more posts than the announcement of LR 2.0! LOL ;-)
Thanks for working this out guys!
Cheers....
Todd in Chicago
(buy you a beer at the "Spoke" sometime Jeff)
To the extent that what Nick wrote and Adobe AU said, Nick did have the authorization to post what he posted. I've said as much to him in both the deleted thread and in IM. To that extent, I was wrong and Nick was right. However, I'm pretty sure Adobe AU jumped the gun because those people under NDA have an embargo date of Sept, 23, 2008 and we have to respect that.
So, what Adobe AU did was undercut everybody who HAS respected their NDAs. It's pretty frustrating for those people who do respect NDAs to have the company who we signed them with ignore the date and make their own early announcements. But hey, it's their company and they can do what they like...however, those of us under NDA still can't say anything regarding whatever that WASN'T in the announcement (which is to say I can't really comment on the "accuracy" of Adobe AU's announcement) which relates to what Nick says here...
So, all I can say is that Adobe has said they will ANNOUNCE CS4 on Sept 23rd...as far as I've heard, they HAVEN'T said when it'll be released...although past history suggests they'll try to ship at least US versions in 30-45 days (more or less). So, we'll see...
As to the rest of the hand wringing, well, I'm a big boy, if you care to dish it out, I'm perfectly happy to take it (as long as you're prepared to take it when I decide to dish it out :~) I've apologized to Nick and I'll apologize to Mike for this becoming a "thing". But that's about the extent of my apologizing if ya know what I mean...
Have a nice day...[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219323\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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You put a lot of pressure on that "L" 8-)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219298\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm a canon user. One has to have faith in "L".
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I'm a canon user. One has to have faith in "L".
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219442\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I lost that faith when i came to the letter Z for Zeiss when learning the alphabet ;-)
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It's interesting, this internet forum thingy, and how people behave.
Initially, long ago, I began to wonder about Jeff, "what's this guy's attitude problem"?
It was obvious that he knew his stuff and that was how he chose to distribute it.
And of course, that being all I knew about him, it influenced my opinion of him personally. Man, he must be hard to get along with in person.
I guess that's natural.
And then I bought the LR 1 video with he and MR. Instead of being dry and hard to get through, the obvious joy these 2 pros had in each others company made the video a "hit".
And I got a completely different opinion of Mr. Schewe. Let's face it, anyone who rides big bikes has to have an attitude just to stay alive. I found him thoroughly engaging in his presentation of his knowledge of LR.
Now it seems this is influencing my opinion of Jeff in his posts here. As just now, when someone goes after him (justifiably or not), I can't wait to see his response.
You go guy!
Gene
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There are certain persons that he obviously doesn't practice his rudeness on Persons that are useful to him! I have been targeted by him for no good reason as others have He can switch it on and off when it suits him so it must deliberate on his part The last poster has become a fan but not everyone will
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I for one will never again buy from LL anything Jeff Schewe is associated with, nor will I buy any of his books.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219241\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
To use a common quote of Jeff's "in the grand scheme of things..." it will not matter a lick.
And you're simply throwing away the baby with the bath water with such an attitude although if you feel this is somehow punishing Jeff, go ahead. While you may not like his tone, the information he has exchanged over the years, either freely or in books and video's is indispensable to the industry.
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I'm not trying to "punish" Jeff. I know that the dollar or two that he's not getting becuase I won't buy a book or video isn't going to send him to the unemployment line. It's like going to a restaurant where the food is great, but the surly servers ruin the experience. I vote with my money, and don't go back. With Jeff, the information is great, but the attitude is too much. I learn, but don't enjoy the experience. There are too many other outlets -- like Martin Evening's excellent book on Lightroom 2.
Telling a noted photographer and fellow contributer to this site to go play in traffic is, to say the least, rude. It was uncalled for in the context of the now-deleted post from Nick Rains. It is also not the first time Jeff has, in my opinion, attacked someone, when a more tactful approach would be appropriate.
Jeff is who he is, but in a business when your name is everything I'd think it is to your advantage not to have potential clients see this kind of stuff in a Google search.
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Jeff is who he is, but in a business when your name is everything I'd think it is to your advantage not to have potential clients see this kind of stuff in a Google search.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219677\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Just to be perfectly clear, this is not a business to and for me. If I were to run my life around a business, I may indeed have a different approach and philosophy but I really, really don't have to worry about that. I could quit now and retire into obscurity and never have to work another day in my life. Not unlike Michael, I really, really don't care about what people think about me. And while you may not believe that, you can be assured that it's absolutely true. I really don't care if you never buy anything I ever do. In a small way I'm actually pleased that such a tightarse as yourself will NOT be getting the benefits of my efforts. But I really don't care a whit.
What I DO care about are many of the issues facing the industry, striving to do better work and to learn. That and having fun and enjoying life. Part of the enjoyment in my life is to pass stuff along to other people but on the terms that I set. If you don't like the way I approach my life, fine, go away and make YOUR life easier by not dealing with anything you don't like...but you can take it to the bank I couldn't care less.
Have a nice life...(and don't let the door hit ya on the butt as you go out the door).
:~)
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Gandhi had it right.
"... There have been tyrants... and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS.”
All he really accomplishes is to prevent others as he has me, from participating in what should be a civil discourse. Not that I fear his boorishness, only that I choose not to be victimized by it.
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i guess mr schewe could not just let an apology stand all by itself....had to follow it up somehow....
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To use a common quote of Jeff's "in the grand scheme of things..." it will not matter a lick.
And you're simply throwing away the baby with the bath water with such an attitude although if you feel this is somehow punishing Jeff, go ahead. While you may not like his tone, the information he has exchanged over the years, either freely or in books and video's is indispensable to the industry.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219674\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is not to reply to the main subject matter although I have strong feelings about it. I am replying to this, the most grievous of attitudes to assume. That one can not or should not stand up for their beliefs for it doesn't matter one lick. Our libraries are filled with stories of one person standing up and saying "Hell no". They are filled with stories people overcoming through persistence and an unwavering belief in their morals and ethics It is our duty to make a stand against the tyrants and bullies of the world. It doesn't matter what language you understand, in all the libraries of all mankind there are our stories that say that it does matter a lick if you stand up for what you believe.
Tell that to Rosa Parks as she boarded the bus and said "Hell, no I'm not sitting in the back"
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Just to be perfectly clear, this is not a business to and for me. If I were to run my life around a business, I may indeed have a different approach and philosophy but I really, really don't have to worry about that. I could quit now and retire into obscurity and never have to work another day in my life. Not unlike Michael, I really, really don't care about what people think about me. And while you may not believe that, you can be assured that it's absolutely true. I really don't care if you never buy anything I ever do. In a small way I'm actually pleased that such a tightarse as yourself will NOT be getting the benefits of my efforts. But I really don't care a whit.
What I DO care about are many of the issues facing the industry, striving to do better work and to learn. That and having fun and enjoying life. Part of the enjoyment in my life is to pass stuff along to other people but on the terms that I set. If you don't like the way I approach my life, fine, go away and make YOUR life easier by not dealing with anything you don't like...but you can take it to the bank I couldn't care less.
Have a nice life...(and don't let the door hit ya on the butt as you go out the door).
:~)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219703\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Is it possible that Mr Schewe could be in any doubt that everyone and their dog knows that he couldn't care what people think about him,no normal person could behave so boorishly had they the slightest respect for their fellow man.
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Just to be perfectly clear, this is not a business to and for me. If I were to run my life around a business, I may indeed have a different approach and philosophy but I really, really don't have to worry about that. I could quit now and retire into obscurity and never have to work another day in my life. Not unlike Michael, I really, really don't care about what people think about me. And while you may not believe that, you can be assured that it's absolutely true. I really don't care if you never buy anything I ever do. In a small way I'm actually pleased that such a tightarse as yourself will NOT be getting the benefits of my efforts. But I really don't care a whit.
What I DO care about are many of the issues facing the industry, striving to do better work and to learn. That and having fun and enjoying life. Part of the enjoyment in my life is to pass stuff along to other people but on the terms that I set. If you don't like the way I approach my life, fine, go away and make YOUR life easier by not dealing with anything you don't like...but you can take it to the bank I couldn't care less.
Have a nice life...(and don't let the door hit ya on the butt as you go out the door).
:~)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219703\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If trying to be polite and respectful to people, whether I know them or not, makes me a "tightarse", then I'll wear the banner proudly.
And I have no intention of leaving this forum or this site. I won't let a bully run me out, regardless of how successful that bully is. I am not impressed. So, no door will be hitting me on the way out; I'll just use the ignore button. Fortunately, there are many, many other contributors here to help me learn more about all that is modern photography.
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It would seem that the 2 people directly involved in this story have reached an agreement about this - to start with highly unconsequential - dispute, so what is the value of artificially extending the debate to discuss how they have handled the matter?
I am just a guest here obviously, but I see enough agression in other places not to be looking forward to find some here. This forum really doesn't need such discussions. DPreview was designed to host this, I don't think that we need to adopt that model. Why don't we just decide to keep being smarter?
Cheers,
Bernard
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They are filled with stories people overcoming through persistence and an unwavering belief in their morals and ethics It is our duty to make a stand against the tyrants and bullies of the world.
Tell that to Rosa Parks as she boarded the bus and said "Hell, no I'm not sitting in the back"
My god, talk about blowing things way out of proportion and making mountains out of molehills.
Tyrants and bullies of the world no less. That's the mindset that got us in Iraq. Geeze, talk about thin skins.
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I haven't laughed this much in ages. Best thread ever.
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I didn't see the original thread, so I won't comment on it. But IMO the reaction to it is way overblown. The insistence that everyone must be politically correct and God help us if anyone says anything that someone might possibly take offense to is just as tyrannical and boorish as suggesting that someone go play in traffic. If you don't like Schewe's style, fine whatever. But comparing him to various dictators and engaging in similar name-calling is at best engaging in the same sort of behavior you're criticizing.
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Let's face it, anyone who rides big bikes has to have an attitude just to stay alive.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219445\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I ride a big bike. Much more aggresive than Mr. Schewes' mule I believe. I don't have too much of an attitude, I think.
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My god, talk about blowing things way out of proportion and making mountains out of molehills.
Tyrants and bullies of the world no less. That's the mindset that got us in Iraq. Geeze, talk about thin skins.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219753\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm always amazed at just how quickly people take offense on internet forums and just how sensitive people are online.
In my world people like Jeff are just pussy cats, try working Oil Rigs for 20 years in some of the most dangerous country's in the world. It gives you an attitude!
Its probably explains why I get paid so much, not many people can stand having to deal with the real world 24/7.
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I'm always amazed at just how quickly people take offense on internet forums and just how sensitive people are online.
In my world people like Jeff are just pussy cats, try working Oil Rigs for 20 years in some of the most dangerous country's in the world. It gives you an attitude!
Its probably explains why I get paid so much, not many people can stand having to deal with the real world 24/7.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219764\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'd have to agree with that
But at the same time, I consider Nick a good friend in the real world and in real life in sunny Brisbane, Australia, and watching what was a fairly quiet original post from his typically quiet and non confrontational style does appear to have caused some tsunami style responses - seriously amusing Nick
So back to the issue of CS4..........
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My god, talk about blowing things way out of proportion and making mountains out of molehills.
Tyrants and bullies of the world no less. That's the mindset that got us in Iraq. Geeze, talk about thin skins.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219753\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Wrong!the reason you got tied up in Iraq was because you failed to stand up to the real bullies on your own doorstep, The Dogs of War in the Whitehouse
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Gandhi had it right.
"... There have been tyrants... and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS.”
All he really accomplishes is to prevent others as he has me, from participating in what should be a civil discourse. Not that I fear his boorishness, only that I choose not to be victimized by it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219709\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hey, man, you can´t blame Gandhi for that!
Rob C
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Wrong!the reason you got tied up in Iraq was because you failed to stand up to the real bullies on your own doorstep, The Dogs of War in the Whitehouse
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219789\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That, my man, is the easiest out yet: blame the population.
Watching recent news disclosures made possible under the "freedom of information" thing, it turns out that both Washington and London were independently well aware of the non-existence of WMDs but both, for whatever reasons, were unable to disclose, or discuss, that information to/with the other. Allies?
By the time the momentum of war gets rolling, only war itself can stop it. There are too many people making mega-bucks out of the economy of war; too many ordinary citizens whose jobs ARE making the tools of war. How do you get out of it? You don´t: you just hope for some sanity to prevail worldwide for long enough to allow us to regather our strengths in order to do it all over again.
It is the nature of man. You know, homo sapiens...
Rob C
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That, my man, is the easiest out yet: blame the population.
Watching recent news disclosures made possible under the "freedom of information" thing, it turns out that both Washington and London were independently well aware of the non-existence of WMDs but both, for whatever reasons, were unable to disclose, or discuss, that information to/with the other. Allies?
By the time the momentum of war gets rolling, only war itself can stop it. There are too many people making mega-bucks out of the economy of war; too many ordinary citizens whose jobs ARE making the tools of war. How do you get out of it? You don´t: you just hope for some sanity to prevail worldwide for long enough to allow us to regather our strengths in order to do it all over again.
It is the nature of man. You know, homo sapiens...
Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219794\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
So let me get this right - this all started because my mate Nick repeated in slightly different terms to Adobe, that CS4 was on its way. God this is getting funnier and funnier. Nick you are soo bad !:)
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I ride a big bike. Much more aggresive than Mr. Schewes' mule I believe.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219763\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That might be a matter of debate. I'll have you know I just turned 93,000K on my 1996 R110GS after riding back from Mendicino, CA (2,400 miles one way) after having torn a calf muscle and twisted an ankle. And THAT'S riding alone from CS-NV-WY-SD-WI and finally IL at an average MPH of about 75MPH (yeah some of it was slower through Yellowstone but pretty much over 90MPH through NV & SD).
So, you may THINK you're more aggressive, but try keeping up with me packing my computer, a 1DsM3 + lenses, clothing and "stuff" and tell me that running a 600 mile day (on average) is whimpy riding...
Personally, I value SMOOTH and safe riding more than aggressive...aggressive riding gets you a hospital stay more than likely.
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.... I really, really don't care about what people think about me. And while you may not believe that, you can be assured that it's absolutely true. I really don't care if you never buy anything I ever do. In a small way I'm actually pleased that such a tightarse as yourself will NOT be getting the benefits of my efforts. But I really don't care a whit.
....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219703\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
What a disgusting kind of language. Doesn't do any good to your credibility. Sorry, but this must be said.
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So what it boils down to, I guess, is the real question: Did Jeff or Nick really have Weapons of Mass Destruction?
I, too, got mildly annoyed at Jeff once. But I have gotten so much of value from him that giving up his posts or this forum would be like giving up food completely just because I ate a plum once that wasn't ripe.
Jeff and Nick are both on my short list of photographic heroes. As someone else pointed out recently: They have made their peace, so why don't the rest of us shut up about this thing now.
-Eric M.
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So what it boils down to, I guess, is the real question: Did Jeff or Nick really have Weapons of Mass Destruction?
I, too, got mildly annoyed at Jeff once. But I have gotten so much of value from him that giving up his posts or this forum would be like giving up food completely just because I ate a plum once that wasn't ripe.
-Eric M.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219817\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Anyone who avoids posting on this site because of Jeff's boorish behavior is truly a wimp. As the old saying goes, "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". In real life words can lead to a physical confrontation, but one is safe from physical assault on the net. He has marked my posts to be ignored, so I don't have to worry about further abuse from him, and if you are lucky, it could happen to you too.
Jeff does have a lot of photographic knowledge and he has access to Thomas Knoll and other true luminaries in the digital imaging world. I bought his revision of Bruce's ACR book-- it is a valuable resource and some of the proceeds will go to Bruce's widow. Likewise, I bought a couple of the LL video tutorials in which Jeff is a major figure. The proceeds help support this forum which we are all using free of charge.
Bill
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Jeff does have a lot of photographic knowledge and he has access to Thomas Knoll and other true luminaries in the digital imaging world. I bought his revision of Bruce's ACR book-- it is a valuable resource and some of the proceeds will go to Bruce's widow. Likewise, I bought a couple of the LL video tutorials in which Jeff is a major figure. The proceeds help support this forum which we are all using free of charge.
Bill
If he was as rude to these people as he is on this site sometimes then he would no longer be acquainted with them End of story He deliberately chooses to be rude That is the bottom line None of us are perfect As a moderator of a website I know the problems involved One of them - I am not suggesting that this is the present case - is that a poster has had a couple of beers or whatever and they post something that they wouldn't normally do I honestly hope that Jeff can continue to post his thoughts on photography without the personal stuff I am surprised that Michael hasn't stepped in and ended this thread Other posters who "wind" people up without trying to be humorous should take note from this thread Now as someone who thinks that Nikon is better than Canon ............. :
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If he was as rude to these people as he is on this site sometimes then he would no longer be acquainted with them End of story He deliberately chooses to be rude That is the bottom line None of us are perfect As a moderator of a website I know the problems involved One of them - I am not suggesting that this is the present case - is that a poster has had a couple of beers or whatever and they post something that they wouldn't normally do I honestly hope that Jeff can continue to post his thoughts on photography without the personal stuff I am surprised that Michael hasn't stepped in and ended this thread Other posters who "wind" people up without trying to be humorous should take note from this thread Now as someone who thinks that Nikon is better than Canon ............. :
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219832\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
A thread pretty much has run its course when politics enters the conversation. As to this thread: Every now and then it is good to air one's feelings, which seems to have happened here--a family argument if you will. Might be good to shut this thread down.
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If he was as rude to these people as he is on this site sometimes then he would no longer be acquainted with them End of story He deliberately chooses to be rude That is the bottom line None of us are perfect As a moderator of a website I know the problems involved One of them - I am not suggesting that this is the present case - is that a poster has had a couple of beers or whatever and they post something that they wouldn't normally do I honestly hope that Jeff can continue to post his thoughts on photography without the personal stuff I am surprised that Michael hasn't stepped in and ended this thread Other posters who "wind" people up without trying to be humorous should take note from this thread Now as someone who thinks that Nikon is better than Canon ............. :
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219832\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Holy Cow! You moderate a forum?...did you ever hear about something called punctuation?...it's this really novel little invention. Maybe you should look it up...only a suggestion, a friendly one by the way.
M
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… Personally, I value SMOOTH and safe riding more than aggressive...aggressive riding gets you a hospital stay more than likely.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219804\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
…couldn’t we just agree on this part as (gentle)man…
In real life words can lead to a physical confrontation, but one is safe from physical assault on the net. …. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219818\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The old way – perhaps wasn’t so wrong
(ok, I’m 105 kg guy with some belts in martial arts (seriously)).
I am just a guest here obviously, but I see enough agression in other places not to be looking forward to find some here. …. Why don't we just decide to keep being smarter?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219741\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yep.
Peter
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That might be a matter of debate. I'll have you know I just turned 93,000K on my 1996 R110GS after riding back from Mendicino, CA (2,400 miles one way) after having torn a calf muscle and twisted an ankle. And THAT'S riding alone from CS-NV-WY-SD-WI and finally IL at an average MPH of about 75MPH (yeah some of it was slower through Yellowstone but pretty much over 90MPH through NV & SD).
So, you may THINK you're more aggressive, but try keeping up with me packing my computer, a 1DsM3 + lenses, clothing and "stuff" and tell me that running a 600 mile day (on average) is whimpy riding...
Personally, I value SMOOTH and safe riding more than aggressive...aggressive riding gets you a hospital stay more than likely.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219804\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Good for you, ironbutt, but why do we care about all that?
Who said I am aggressive or I ride aggressively? I used the adjective referring to the bike, I believe.
It was a half joke Mr. Schewe, just replying to the poster who thought that riding a big bike must mean one acquires an attitude. Which, again, was a joke...
It seems to me you really need to constantly assert yourself and let us all know what you do and what you care of or not all the time. Attitude? No.. I would call it an acute insecurity problem but then I'm no pro...
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I am surprised that Michael hasn't stepped in and ended this thread Other posters who "wind" people up without trying to be humorous should take note from this thread Now as someone who thinks that Nikon is better than Canon ............. :
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219832\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I agree that this thread has outlived its usefulness. If Michael wisely does choose to close down this thread, it would be the third thread in my recent memory where an abusive thread in which Mr. Schewe was involved was marked read only or shutdown.
Bill
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WOW..........now back to your regularly scheduled program.........things to do with photography I believe. :}
Dave
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I can't believe all you all go on about something so pathetically uninteresting. If you're going to aggressively argue and be rude, at least let it be about something a bit more dynamic than "Why's that guy so mean...", "awww, you don't have to be so mean", and " Here's some gossip, oops I mean secret and I shouldn't have told you..."
nya nya na naa na
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Holy Cow! You moderate a forum?...did you ever hear about something called punctuation?...it's this really novel little invention. Maybe you should look it up...only a suggestion, a friendly one by the way.
M
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219837\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I take it you managed to read and understand the post, despite the lack of..... what did you call it? There has been a few of these posts recently where somebody tries to state their superiority in sentence making. I think you come into the category that I stated "wind up" without humour. I hope as a target I managed to make your day?
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I take it you managed to read and understand the post, despite the lack of..... what did you call it? There has been a few of these posts recently where somebody tries to state their superiority in sentence making. I think you come into the category that I stated "wind up" without humour. I hope as a target I managed to make your day?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219922\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Superiority? please, don't be silly...I made it through your post with some difficulty and that's why i commented on your laziness to use a period when needed. You didn't make my day, trust me. Target? That's a childish assumption. All I did was comment on the use of written language and the way you use it or abuse it making it difficult to read your post. No more, no less. I think you're reading too much into my comment.
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Superiority? please, don't be silly...I made it through your post with some difficulty and that's why i commented on your laziness to use a period when needed. You didn't make my day, trust me. Target? That's a childish assumption. All I did was comment on the use of written language and the way you use it or abuse it making it difficult to read your post. No more, no less. I think you're reading too much into my comment.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219925\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you find it difficult to read a post without a period in it you have a problem. The capital letters starting a sentence should give you a clue. Moderating a site has little or nothing to do with punctuation. It is the content that is looked at. If I picked up on the punctuation of every poster then there wouldn't be any! BTW it would be helpful if you used a spell checker. You didn't capitalize i . Hopefully you can move on to somebody else now?
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If you find it difficult to read a post without a period in it you have a problem. The capital letters starting a sentence should give you a clue. Moderating a site has little or nothing to do with punctuation. It is the content that is looked at. If I picked up on the punctuation of every poster then there wouldn't be any! BTW it would be helpful if you used a spell checker. You didn't capitalize i . Hopefully you can move on to somebody else now?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219930\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Your ignorance and immaturity is showing...to say nothing of your paranoia...
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I can't believe all you all go on about something so pathetically uninteresting. If you're going to aggressively argue and be rude, at least let it be about something a bit more dynamic than "Why's that guy so mean...", "awww, you don't have to be so mean", and " Here's some gossip, oops I mean secret and I shouldn't have told you..."
nya nya na naa na
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219899\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think you have it right. I can't remember such a disgraceful display of human weakness on this forum. The complete inability not to harbour resentment and bitterness and anger. The complete inability to practise forgiveness, to offer generosity of spirit. We all rub each other the wrong way from time to time. No need to carry it on to the next morning. Peaceful people are powerful people. No sign of that today.
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OK folks, time for bed.
Michael