Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: pss on August 31, 2008, 01:00:08 pm
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graeme...sorry if this offends you but i need this question to be in the MF forum because i need the experience of MF shooters, some of which also happen to use canon...so this is really a pro forum question.....
so: i got the canon dsIII....great camera....i have never had a camera that does such a great job of getting out of the way of shooting.....great files...really everything i expected the dsII would be when i got that.....and was very disappointed....anyway...
with the files being quite large i really have a hard time shooting tethered....the canon software seems to be only way to get the files in and after that i guess it comes down to whatever software one wants to use.....in my case i tried aperture and it makes the shooting just too slow....it works and there are no real glitches, but it is just too slow.....i will try LR in the next couple of days, but i am starting to think that the USB is the real problem.....
i am on shooting to a macbookpro with an internal striped raid (with 7200rpm dives) so write speed can't really be the issue.....
any input welcome....
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Hope I understand you correctly:
You are able to tether and can get the files into the MacBook Pro.
Your problem is it comes in slow? How slow using EOS Utility, I presume?
You have not configured it to send the file to say C1 V4 or LR I guess or even Bridge CS3.
On my PC, 2 to 3 seconds to pop up rendered in Bridge or C1, if it helps.
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Hope I understand you correctly:
You are able to tether and can get the files into the MacBook Pro.
Your problem is it comes in slow? How slow using EOS Utility, I presume?
You have not configured it to send the file to say C1 V4 or LR I guess or even Bridge CS3.
On my PC, 2 to 3 seconds to pop up rendered in Bridge or C1, if it helps.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218513\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
When I tether the 1ds3 I use the EOS software shooting raw and small jpeg. The first 5 files are pretty fast, the previews are full screen. After 5 the rest are very slow.
I've been told it's the mac usb drivers, not the software or the camera.
I guess if I ran windows on the intel computers it would be faster.
JR
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Hi,
There was some info here 1Ds3 tethered (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23394&hl=slow+tethered)
and here some more (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25648&hl=slow+tethered)
Cheers,
J
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You can set a HotFolder inside of CaptureOne, and then use CaptureOne to tether. Downside is you're importing RAWs so that means eight seconds or so per image, due to lame decision to use USB instead of FW.
Or, you can use EOS Utility, but same deal: eight seconds if you're importing raws.
Or, you can use EOS Utility, with or without linking it to DPP, and if you're willing to download cards, you can see the images come in much faster, around one second each. this is the workaround:
1. Put a CF card in Slot 1.
2. Put an SD card in Slot 2.
3. Set the camera to "record separately".
4. Set the camera to "Playback only Slot 2".
5. Set the Slot 1, the CF slot, to record RAW.
6. Set the Slot 2, the SC card, to record JPG SMALL with compression.
7. Open EOS Utility, and link it to DPP.
8. Hook up the USB cable to the Mac.
Downside with this: every time you open the CF door on the body, it drops connection to EOS Utility and it takes about thirty seconds to reconnect. Obvious other downside: you must remember to download the CF RAWs onto the computer, since you're only viewing JPGs on the tethered computer.
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You can set a HotFolder inside of CaptureOne, and then use CaptureOne to tether. Downside is you're importing RAWs so that means eight seconds or so per image, due to lame decision to use USB instead of FW.
Or, you can use EOS Utility, but same deal: eight seconds if you're importing raws.
Or, you can use EOS Utility, with or without linking it to DPP, and if you're willing to download cards, you can see the images come in much faster, around one second each. this is the workaround:
1. Put a CF card in Slot 1.
2. Put an SD card in Slot 2.
3. Set the camera to "record separately".
4. Set the camera to "Playback only Slot 2".
5. Set the Slot 1, the CF slot, to record RAW.
6. Set the Slot 2, the SC card, to record JPG SMALL with compression.
7. Open EOS Utility, and link it to DPP.
8. Hook up the USB cable to the Mac.
Downside with this: every time you open the CF door on the body, it drops connection to EOS Utility and it takes about thirty seconds to reconnect. Obvious other downside: you must remember to download the CF RAWs onto the computer, since you're only viewing JPGs on the tethered computer.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218544\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The other downside of this system for my work is naming. I have to name every raw file later and use a software like photomechanic that will combine the raws and jpegs so the corresponding files have the same name.
I use a cf card in the camera shooting tethered and the upside is it backs up every raw file, downside if I name in the computer while shooting the files on the card have a different name.
As you mentioned with either system, when you open the cf door everything must be restarted.
I find the EOS utility very stable, actually amazingly stable and not that hard to learn, but once past a few frames, that 8 second delay is a killer.
Also after about 15 files you hit some kind of buffer and have to wait, kind of like the old 1ds1.
One upside is the previews are great and full 24" screen.
JR
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thanks for all the answers....looks like i will have to wait for apple to write new drivers (and fully support the dsIII in aperture, which will probably happen at the same time) or for phase to finally come out with the 4.0 pro version to support tethered shooting....which i won't hold my breath for....especially for canon....
the jpeg workaround does not work for me..... for me the main reason to shoot tethered in the first place is to see the raw files, check focus, check detail, apply some adjustments,....so jpegs are out.....also the renaming of files, duplicates and everything else does not really work either.....
as much as i need tethered shooting, i am fine with shooting the set-up, getting a couple of shots, making sure everything is right, everybody is happy and then i can move on and shoot to card and download....but sometimes that does not work.....
so i guess until apple fixes the driver issue, i will have to deal with 8sec previews and the buffer ....which really is a pain.....once you start shooting, nobody cares when the shots come in, but having to stop shooting is a just not fun.....
still loving the dsIII though.....
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Isn't there a way to programme Lightroom or Aperture for tethered shooting?
I read that Aperture should be able to go tethered. What about Lightroom?
I dont undestand why Bridge, LR, PS arent programmed for tethered shooting.
That would be killer and so easy.
Tim
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What you do with LR is to set it to monitor and auto-import from a folder, and then make the capture program (EOS utility) save all the images in that same folder. You take a pic, Eos Utility downloads it to the folder, LR sees the new file and grabs it.
It's a bit delayed though but it works pretty ok.
On the PC i prefere to use a different utility called DSLR Remote (breesesys) which does all the tethering directly without any fuss.
Capture One is supposed to be doing it in the v4 pro version but as that right now is vapourware i guess we'll see how well it does it at Photokina.
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the jpeg workaround does not work for me..... for me the main reason to shoot tethered in the first place is to see the raw files, check focus, check detail, apply some adjustments,....so jpegs are out.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218566\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Paul,
You bring up a good point here. While EOS Utility and DPP combination work just fine, that approach is really better when you're working a job where the color and contrast are pretty "normal". If you're working on a more creative job, where you're skewing the color and/or contrast more, the controls in Capture One are much more thorough.
Even so, we never found a way for new incoming files, coming into CaptureOne, to be automatically tagged with your color settings. Thus, it forces to Tech to manually highlight the new incoming RAWs, and then do APPLY SETTINGs to the new incoming. In short, pretty irritating, and it really gets old, by about after lunch.
Also, if you choose the other JPG approach, the full screen preview of the tiny compressed JPG is VERY GOOD. Even though it's a tiny JPG. Even on a 17" or 24" monitor. Because even the smallest JPG on the 1ds3 is still quite large.
But to be blunt about it, if you really want to tether the right way, shoot a Phase back, and use CaptureOne 3.78. That's my bottom line opinion.
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What you do with LR is to set it to monitor and auto-import from a folder, and then make the capture program (EOS utility) save all the images in that same folder. You take a pic, Eos Utility downloads it to the folder, LR sees the new file and grabs it.
It's a bit delayed though but it works pretty ok.
On the PC i prefere to use a different utility called DSLR Remote (breesesys) which does all the tethering directly without any fuss.
Capture One is supposed to be doing it in the v4 pro version but as that right now is vapourware i guess we'll see how well it does it at Photokina.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218569\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'll echo the DSLR Remote! A very nice and stable program. Combine it with C1 v4 and a hot folder on a second monitor and you have a very workable setup.
I bracket quite a bit for layering and in the past with the MKII I used EOS utility to change camera setting and C1 v3.x. EOS and C1 did not play nice...you had to open and close EOS every time you used it.
No longer a problem with the MKIII and DSLR Remote. They seem made for each other.
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FYI -
The "bottleneck" that has been mentioned shows on a Win setup as well. They come in fast but at some point (I don't bother to count, etc.) things get a little slow - no new images, and then wham, a rush of images that don't finish the "course pixel to fine pixel" before the next image starts to display.
I find tether shooting fine in two situations:
1) it is a more controlled shot with a frame every minute or so (or even slower)
2) I don't want to download cards (and the shot allways a tether setup).
I find ADs following the shoot on the large monitor and say "we got it" when I truely know that they are seeing very little if I am shooting with any speed. Yeah, they have a "sense of got it" but I shoot until "I get that feeling that I got it".
Until we get bigger pipes to work with (and I didn't find firewire that much better with the II) we are just stuck with what we have. Just remember five frames is over 100 megs that have to be pushed down the cable, written to the HD and displayed in whatever proggram you are using to view it. That is still a lot to plain expect "instant". Hell a Polariod took longer.
Ken
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But to be blunt about it, if you really want to tether the right way, shoot a Phase back, and use CaptureOne 3.78. That's my bottom line opinion.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218571\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I agree with the 3.78 quote, to some extent, if what your shooting is normal and you can get past the previews 3.7 produce. I like 3.7 for it's stability and naming but the previews can be challanging.
I loved it when I first bought my phase, but then there wasn't a lot of other options. Now next to lightroom, 3.78 has some limitations. Maybe v4 pro ut will change some of this.
We shot a job a month ago that is in final post right now with the p30+ and 3.78. I just couldn't show the AD the look I wanted with 3.78 so we did a preset in Lightroom and ran a hot folder to the program.
it worked very well, other than the LR previews were slowwww. For this project that was fine as it was very placed and though the people we're moving the look was profiled and somewhat static.
For this it worked and the previews came up as planned with out a lot of tech massaging.
JR
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Hi
We have a shoot coming up & I am going to use a 16' (5m) USB Active Extension Cable which should give me 8 meters toal with the Canon 3 m usb cable. Should I shoot s jpeg/Raw into the G5 tower? We have to see the shots as they come up.
Denis
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Hi
We have a shoot coming up & I am going to use a 16' (5m) USB Active Extension Cable which should give me 8 meters toal with the Canon 3 m usb cable. Should I shoot s jpeg/Raw into the G5 tower? We have to see the shots as they come up.
Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218618\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
denis.....it seems if you want fast (as in right away or 1-2 sec) previews you will have to do jpegs....
i have used the canon utility (afaik the only way as of right now to shoot tethered with the dsIII) to shoot raw to a folder which i had watched by aperture....this takes a looong time (7sec? 8sec?) and hits a buffer....this is to a striped array....no usb extension....
i looked into it a little from the mac/aperture end....aperture supports tethered shooting (without any canon utility) of almost all older canons (up to rebel and dsII) no problem...firewrie, usb, no problem.....i guess canon completely re-wrote their software and apple hasn't made it truly compatible...yet....hence the usb "delay" and non tethered support for the latest canons in aperture...
i really hope this will be resolved soon.....
the m8 comes with a little tethered app (which crashes in 10.5 on startup) which shoots superslow...actually kindof like the canon.....turns out aperture supports tethered shooting for the m8 and voila....snappy, happy shooting raw with great previews.....i am just mentioning this because i am hoping for a similar experience with the canons....soon...
i never tried tethered with the dsII and aperture, maybe someone has some input about that?
and yes of course.....c1 3.7 with the phase backs rules.....it is proof that it can be done.....i used to shoot with the P30 (larger files) to a much slower computer and much much slower HDs....no problem.....
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How about running Windows (bootcamp or parallels) would that bypass the USB bottleneck? At least you will not be using the Apple USB driver and the Windows USB driver is a lot faster. I can notice a big difference with external disks (on the same MBP that is) between Windows USB and Mac USB.
Sure, it would be a true nuisance but if tethering the Canon is really important it might be worthwhile to look into.
I don't have a Canon BTW and have not been using any of my Nikons tethered since 2004 so it might totally not make sense what I am suggesting.
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There is a LR2 plug-in which make it possible to shoot tethered to Canon and Nikon cameras with a Mac.
I haven't tested it comprehensively, but it works with my Canon. It will cut the Canon software out of the loop and import the image straight into LR2. I think the shooting speed is the same, but the time it takes to get a viewable picture might be faster.
It does however have glitches. It looks like it's possible to start several tethered connections at once, and that fast shooting will crash the connection immediately. However, it works and potential future versions might be a good alternative to both C1pro and Canon software.
http://www.mountainstorm.co.uk/photography/page2/page2.html (http://www.mountainstorm.co.uk/photography/page2/page2.html)
Happy Labor Day
Best,
Esben
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How about running Windows (bootcamp or parallels) would that bypass the USB bottleneck? At least you will not be using the Apple USB driver and the Windows USB driver is a lot faster. I can notice a big difference with external disks (on the same MBP that is) between Windows USB and Mac USB.
Sure, it would be a true nuisance but if tethering the Canon is really important it might be worthwhile to look into.
I don't have a Canon BTW and have not been using any of my Nikons tethered since 2004 so it might totally not make sense what I am suggesting.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218682\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i think that this might be the only way for right now...if you really HAVE to work it fast....
on the other hand i am not sure how much the extra software overhead might slow down everything else....runnning 4-5 apps at once AND running 2 systems at once just does not sound like a great workflow to me....
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Baby steps...
http://prodig.org/2008/08/30/lightroom-tether-plugin/ (http://prodig.org/2008/08/30/lightroom-tether-plugin/)
Requires 10.5 and this one is mostly Nikon-only.
How many years after the introduction of the 1ds1, and we're still trying to simply tether a camera for a real-world job? Canon should be ashamed. Obviously a camera geared toward sports and weddings.
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There is a LR2 plug-in which make it possible to shoot tethered to Canon and Nikon cameras with a Mac.
I haven't tested it comprehensively, but it works with my Canon. It will cut the Canon software out of the loop and import the image straight into LR2. I think the shooting speed is the same, but the time it takes to get a viewable picture might be faster.
It does however have glitches. It looks like it's possible to start several tethered connections at once, and that fast shooting will crash the connection immediately. However, it works and potential future versions might be a good alternative to both C1pro and Canon software.
Best,
Esben
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218696\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
this uses the apple api, which means it won't work with the latest canons...once apple comes out with an update, tethering to aperture should work anyway....
apple really has tethered support built into the system, but if canon/nikon change their protocols, apple has to rewrite their end and i am pretty sure that kind of thing is not on top of apple's list when they update their system software.....
i wonder if the wireless gizmo could speed things up? the wireless conncetion would obviously be too slow for raw, but it also has ethernet and usb connections.....if the ethernet is 10/100 this would probbly be too slow as well, but one could shoot into an external usb HD and have LR/aperture watch the folder on the external HD....that usb connection should not be slowed by the canon camera usb driver?
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Baby steps...
http://prodig.org/2008/08/30/lightroom-tether-plugin/ (http://prodig.org/2008/08/30/lightroom-tether-plugin/)
Requires 10.5 and this one is mostly Nikon-only.
How many years after the introduction of the 1ds1, and we're still trying to simply tether a camera for a real-world job? Canon should be ashamed. Obviously a camera geared toward sports and weddings.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218706\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Tethering and the Canons is really kind of strange. Obviously they know that we tether and the issues we had with the 1ds2 with that small 4 pin firewire connector because the connection on the 1ds3 usb is very robust.
Then again, tethering with the Canons is not that great of a system.
Mostly the naming. I don't really understand that when you tether and name the files within the computer why those names are not transfered to the cf card images.
If this would happen it would make the system 95% better, not perfect, but better because then the small jpegs could be used for viewing and approval and the raws would match the same naming.
No matter how much most of us want just one camera system that will cover all the territory it doesn't seem to exist.
Personally I like working with the 1ds3. It's simple, the iso is good, the viewfinder is almost spectacular and the files are much better than the 2, but when it comes to tethering and working a file deep it just isn't the same as working with a medium format back.
Then again for 1/2 to 1/5 of the price of medium format it's stil one hell of a camera.
What I would really love to see is whatever DPP reads in a Canon file, LR, RD, C1 would read the same thing. The Canon files really shine in DPP, but the software is just too PCish and bogs down to some extent and compared to LightRoom, the functionality is almost 5 years in the past.
JR
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Tethering and the Canons is really kind of strange. Obviously they know that we tether and the issues we had with the 1ds2 with that small 4 pin firewire connector because the connection on the 1ds3 usb is very robust.
Then again, tethering with the Canons is not that great of a system.
Mostly the naming. I don't really understand that when you tether and name the files within the computer why those names are not transfered to the cf card images.
If this would happen it would make the system 95% better, not perfect, but better because then the small jpegs could be used for viewing and approval and the raws would match the same naming.
No matter how much most of us want just one camera system that will cover all the territory it doesn't seem to exist.
Personally I like working with the 1ds3. It's simple, the iso is good, the viewfinder is almost spectacular and the files are much better than the 2, but when it comes to tethering and working a file deep it just isn't the same as working with a medium format back.
Then again for 1/2 to 1/5 of the price of medium format it's stil one hell of a camera.
What I would really love to see is whatever DPP reads in a Canon file, LR, RD, C1 would read the same thing. The Canon files really shine in DPP, but the software is just too PCish and bogs down to some extent and compared to LightRoom, the functionality is almost 5 years in the past.
JR
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James are you wanting to rename the files then have them upped back to the CF card again?
Sorry but that does not make much sense at all?
Sounds like your going backwards.
I have heard you and mainly you complaining about the naming system...
Don't you have assistants or technical assistants rename your images for you?
Also Not to be wise but we sure have got spoiled with the digital world and now expect and want everything automatic..
I am sure you remember the Film days and Polaroids... seems like a million years ago but was not.
I was shooting film up until 3 years ago a long side digital.
I think the problem is pushy clients that want everything yesterday..
I get it all the time.
They seem to have forgotten that they normally had to wait a couple of days for film much less get the retouched image ready for public display.
I think the more "we" jump to please the client, the more they will tell us how high to jump!
I find a lot of posts sounding like people whining all the time...
I hope this does not come off snobbish, just a point..
Snook
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James are you wanting to rename the files then have them upped back to the CF card again?
Sorry but that does not make much sense at all?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218719\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you want to have quick previews with the eos utility you must only send small jpegs to the computer, the raws are written to a cf card.
This works and works quite well, except if you name the jpegs in the eos utility, (for example) snook_wears_red_dress_001 the corresponding raw image will be c20004.cr2.
In other words the jpegs in the computer won't match the raw images in naming.
If you send both the raws and the jpeg to the computer you can name them snook_wears_red_dress_001 and the raw and the jpeg will have the same name. The only issue with this is after the first 5 images the system slows way down.
Why is this important. For one you have everything coming into the system with the correct name and it's easy to find or search and there is no need to rename the raws at a later date (which is just one more step).
Why are the jpegs important? Because even if you want to do some batch corrections for web galleries and contact sheets, it's very fast to put the jpegs into a program like lightroom and reprocess them. Much faster than waiting for hundreds or thousands of previews to build from the raws.
If the naming was the same on the card (raw) and in the computer (jpeg) that is just one less step for anything to go wrong on a busy day.
Do I have people? yes . . . but once again, if it's correct going into the system it stays correct and is one less thing to worry about.
JR
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If you want to have quick previews with the eos utility you must only send small jpegs to the computer, the raws are written to a cf card.
This works and works quite well, except if you name the jpegs in the eos utility, (for example) snook_wears_red_dress_001 the corresponding raw image will be c20004.cr2.
In other words the jpegs in the computer won't match the raw images in naming.
If you send both the raws and the jpeg to the computer you can name them snook_wears_red_dress_001 and the raw and the jpeg will have the same name. The only issue with this is after the first 5 images the system slows way down.
Why is this important. For one you have everything coming into the system with the correct name and it's easy to find or search and there is no need to rename the raws at a later date (which is just one more step).
Why are the jpegs important? Because even if you want to do some batch corrections for web galleries and contact sheets, it's very fast to put the jpegs into a program like lightroom and reprocess them. Much faster than waiting for hundreds or thousands of previews to build from the raws.
If the naming was the same on the card (raw) and in the computer (jpeg) that is just one less step for anything to go wrong on a busy day.
Do I have people? yes . . . but once again, if it's correct going into the system it stays correct and is one less thing to worry about.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218738\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i understand that you want to work with jpegs....for speed at shooting and for simple post (contacts,...) ...i just wouldn't rename anything at that point....as long as your files have unique numbers (which they should) you won't have any problems with separated jpegs and raws and once you are done with the project (or once you get rid of the jpegs and work on the raws) just rename them.....
i also always shoot to cards (even when i shoot tethered) that way i have the entire shoot with me in a little case at the end of the day....cards are cheap and computers get stolen, lost, break,.....but if i rename files on import (on tether) the files on the cards have different names again.....
i have pretty much given up on renaming files....i have them in folders anyway and nothing really floats....the only real solution to the naming issue would be in camera...at the time of shooting.....i believe i was able to do that on my leaf back...wirelessly via the pda.....just name the shoot and all files came out with the name and numbers....
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i understand that you want to work with jpegs....for speed at shooting and for simple post (contacts,...) ...i just wouldn't rename anything at that point....as long as your files have unique numbers (which they should) you won't have any problems with separated jpegs and raws and once you are done with the project (or once you get rid of the jpegs and work on the raws) just rename them.....
i also always shoot to cards (even when i shoot tethered) that way i have the entire shoot with me in a little case at the end of the day....cards are cheap and computers get stolen, lost, break,.....but if i rename files on import (on tether) the files on the cards have different names again.....
i have pretty much given up on renaming files....i have them in folders anyway and nothing really floats....the only real solution to the naming issue would be in camera...at the time of shooting.....i believe i was able to do that on my leaf back...wirelessly via the pda.....just name the shoot and all files came out with the name and numbers....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218743\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I agree with Paul here
if you loading in by a CF card then the RAws will have a number and that can be the file number you need to have it attached or matching with your renamed jpegs??
Or no?
If you have to down load the CF card somewhere just make sure you or your assistants note what folder goes with your re-named Jpegs?
I really do not see why that is difficult?
I actually do not like to rename anything until a later date or a copied version of the original file. I am just anal about that..
Maybe I am missing something?
Snook
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On the Windows side at least, there is this wonderful free utility by Jim Willsher called Bulk Rename Utility http://www.bulkrenameutility.co.uk/ (http://www.bulkrenameutility.co.uk/) . It will rename any number of files instantly. It shows up as a Context Menu item in Windows. Perhaps PhotoMechanic and other programs do this as well? BRU unfortunately will be supported only until the end of 2008...
Cheers,
Kumar
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Maybe kind of stupid question...
But why edit/change the file name?
You can save the file name but edit the title in the IPTC data.
Goes in batch mode with tools like this:
http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/ (http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/)
http://www.amarra.de/exif_uk.htm (http://www.amarra.de/exif_uk.htm)
http://www.exifer.friedemann.info/ (http://www.exifer.friedemann.info/) (Windows only)
Every image software can read the IPTC tags. Even the explorer/finder.
Capture One has an IPTC editor, too.
And if you sort by columns...
[attachment=8175:attachment]
... you always have both at the same time: file name and IPTC-"title"
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I agree with Paul here
if you loading in by a CF card then the RAws will have a number and that can be the file number you need to have it attached or matching with your renamed jpegs??
Or no?
If you have to down load the CF card somewhere just make sure you or your assistants note what folder goes with your re-named Jpegs?
I really do not see why that is difficult?
I actually do not like to rename anything until a later date or a copied version of the original file. I am just anal about that..
Maybe I am missing something?
Snook
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the only way to see the shots quickly is by sending small jpegs, and if you want to choose shots on the fly- the names wont match. i find on a busy high volume shoot, there really isnt enough time to download the cf card as things are getting shot. so no way of choosing the shots, with a correct name.
im sure james is in that boat.
maybe by dedicating a second workstation, with another operator, but that is ridiculous expense for a work around on of a mickey mouse system.
ive been forced to use the canon software all year, and i still cant get my head around it. and i dont know an assistant i (in new zealand) that can work it seemlessly, or even like the software.
my workflow has been on a fast shoot (i dont do this if im shooting a slow shoot)
- shoot raw to CF card- send jpeg small to the computer running crap canon software.
- download raw off cards into C1 3.9 when there is a break- ie lunch, or model changes
but i cant choose the shots easily from the canon software, as i cant match the names with raws. especially when i use my std naming convention that i use with C1. all the selecting tends to be done in C1, but working like this isnt that good. i just havnt figured out a better way.
paul
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Has anyone tried Bibble software for tethering?
http://bibblelabs.com/products/bibble/specs.html (http://bibblelabs.com/products/bibble/specs.html)
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Has anyone tried Bibble software for tethering?
http://bibblelabs.com/products/bibble/specs.html (http://bibblelabs.com/products/bibble/specs.html)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218781\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i tried it for 20 minutes. it tethered easy, but the transfers are still slow (due to raw and usb/ osx).
could be a good option, but i dont to learn another piece of software!
paul
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there really isnt enough time to download the cf card as things are getting shot. so no way of choosing the shots, with a correct name.
im sure james is in that boat.
maybe by dedicating a second workstation, with another operator, but that is ridiculous expense for a work around on of a mickey mouse system
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218780\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
My reason for pre naming is simple. I learned a long time ago with digital that the more organized and cleaner you are up front the less work you do in the back end.
For a lot of projects, especially designer or retail fashion it must be named according to product, i.e. blu_blous_low_cut_sleevless_001.
And even for a ad session with multiple set ups its easier to find images if the folders and names have some form of reference. jackie_chan_mountian_001, jackie_chan_motorcycle_001, etc. etc.
It just makes processing, sorting, editing etc. that much eaiser.
Now if time doesn't permit to name as I go, we set up folders on the desktop and shoot to those specific folders that are named accordingly. No such thing as folder1, folder2, but names like the above and then I put the raws and jpegs in photomechanic and rename them together.
Then I process out the jpegs again for slight corrections in lightroom.
Those go in the web galleries.
So starting with a logical or client requested naming convention is a must.
Having less steps saves a lot of time on the backend, but the backend is where all my focus is now when it comes to time saving workflow.
In fact that is so important to me, I'll put up with the buffer time and slow write time just to get it into the system correctly. Even with the times I have to tell the talen to wait, hair/makeup/styling goes in and does there thing and the wait is around the same as changing a roll of film.
As far as using the eos utlity and dpp, I don't find them difficult to work or learn, just kind of all over the place, having to go from windows for some settings to preferences for others.
Once you get use to it, it kind of runs it'self, though slowly. I've used it on the last 4 projects and nobody has complained, though there is some wait time for previews to load.
JR
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Of course there is a way to name a series of captures with "blue_blouse_one_sleeve_torn_off-001" and then midway, change the name to "red_cardigan_without_lining-001" and so on and continue shooting. You don't even need to shoot JPEG because the software extracts small Jpegs from the RAW captures to send to the screen quickly.
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I cant recommend enough using Windows for tethering the mark3. It blows away every photographer I tech for when they first see it and are accustomed to running it through OSX. Once you remap the apple Key to control so that the keyboard works properly :-)
My setup tends to be MBP2.5 with either a dual drive FW800 enclosure or a esata card and a dual 3.5 esata enclosure. 1 drive is NTFS formatted and the other HFS+. Captures are sent directly to the NTFS drive and then manually backed up to the HFS+ drive after each shot setup. I use Macdrive to do the talking between the drives.
Works great.
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i checked out bibble and thank god it was just as slow.....the last thing i need is one more conversion software (even if i only use it to shoot tethered)....
the renaming thing is not really a problem for me and is something everybody has to figure out for themselves....what works for me might drive someone else nuts...
i still wish it could be done in camera so the files are named as they are shot....i completely agree with james that i also try to not save it all for post....it is so easy to just let everything go and fix it later....not a smart way of working imo...we could not really do it with film and we really should not do it with digital.....it's just plain lazy and takes up so much more time afterwards......but i guess everybody has their workflow.....again: leaf could do it years ago (naming the files in camera) with all the other magic going on, you'd think it was possible....maybe next year.....
the obvious bottleneck is mac usb.....i guess canon had to make a decision to either piss off pc users with firewire or mac users with usb.....a camera shooting 25mb files at 3/sec should really have fw800 anyway.....
everytime i find a reason to install windows i just can't get myself to do it and deal with it....i guess i would rather get one of those sony UX or oqo things.....and treat it like a epson/gigavu device...use it for shooting only......actually looked into the UX...solidstate drive are fast but too small.....
i guess it comes down to how one shoots....and the canon isn't really that much slower then a film based MF system.....so like james said...time for stylist/makeup/hair to jump in......
now if the camera just wasn't so damn fast and fun to shoot fast......
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I cant recommend enough using Windows for tethering the mark3. It blows away every photographer I tech for when they first see it and are accustomed to running it through OSX. Once you remap the apple Key to control so that the keyboard works properly :-)
My setup tends to be MBP2.5 with either a dual drive FW800 enclosure or a esata card and a dual 3.5 esata enclosure. 1 drive is NTFS formatted and the other HFS+. Captures are sent directly to the NTFS drive and then manually backed up to the HFS+ drive after each shot setup. I use Macdrive to do the talking between the drives.
Works great.
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Your right. Works more than great. Just hooking the 1ds3 to a small Dell Laptop and eos utlitlity doubled the buffer, cut the wait time down to 1/3 and the previews are at least twice as fast, maybe more.
I just ordered a PC laptop which I think with 4 gigs of ram, a 17" screen and two 320 gig hard drives came to $2,700.
JR
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Your right. Works more than great. Just hooking the 1ds3 to a small Dell Laptop and eos utlitlity doubled the buffer, cut the wait time down to 1/3 and the previews are at least twice as fast, maybe more.
I just ordered a PC laptop which I think with 4 gigs of ram, a 17" screen and two 320 gig hard drives came to $2,700.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219223\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Does running Windows in Boot camp help? Or not even worth it?
I do not even have a 1DsMIII but was thinking about getting one for back up and when it is needed to replace my 1DsMII...
I am a Mac guy from day one but always thought about shooting tethered to one of those tiny lap tops Pc makes... They are really cheap...
Thanks for the Information...
Will you have to switch from computer to computer if you change cameras when shooting...
In other words are you getting the Pc just for the Canon and when you need it?
Thanks again
Snook
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well. sounding like an advertisement now but if you are going to tether a Canon on the PC, check out DSLR Remote. It was the best $99 ive ever spent. Sure EOS Utility is free but it crashes fairly easilly and does not reconnect at all which is a real pain when you are shooting continously and all of a sudden have to stop, restart eos utility, reconnect, etc etc. DSLR Remote does that much better and ive only managed to crash it once with a 450D
Since i do own a license to Capture One im eagerly awaiting to see how well Pro 4 will work with tethered but in the meantime i use this little software to do the capture to my laptop.
(http://www.breezesys.com/ if you want to check it out)
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Your right. Works more than great. Just hooking the 1ds3 to a small Dell Laptop and eos utlitlity doubled the buffer, cut the wait time down to 1/3 and the previews are at least twice as fast, maybe more.
I just ordered a PC laptop which I think with 4 gigs of ram, a 17" screen and two 320 gig hard drives came to $2,700.
JR
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=219223\")
i have tried to go that route once before...got one of those little sony UX things...5inch screen and such...ended up returning it....the processor was too slow, the HD too small and too slow....(i am sure your dell rig does not have these problems)....... and the biggest problem was the files were on there after the shoot was done....i could not really make any adjustments (that would have been carried over with the files) so the whole thing just did not work for me....i was running C1 on it.....
james....how do you work the dell into your workflow? do you have LR on it, write the adjustments to .xmp and then import the files (with the .xmp) into your mac for post and final storage? i could see having a mac running windows and just using it for tethered shooting and connecting it to the workstation via FW targetdisk mode (and using it just as a HD at that point...)...actually the [a href=\"http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Modbook]modbook[/url] would be perfect for that!....i guess you'd still have the library/settings issues....either way not what i would consider a smooth workflow......
i am really hesitant to install windows along with mac osX just to shoot tethered and am just not convinced that the "2 systems at once" workflow won't make up the difference (or the most part of it) in speed....
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well. sounding like an advertisement now but if you are going to tether a Canon on the PC, check out DSLR Remote. It was the best $99 ive ever spent. Sure EOS Utility is free but it crashes fairly easilly and does not reconnect at all which is a real pain when you are shooting continously and all of a sudden have to stop, restart eos utility, reconnect, etc etc. DSLR Remote does that much better and ive only managed to crash it once with a 450D
Since i do own a license to Capture One im eagerly awaiting to see how well Pro 4 will work with tethered but in the meantime i use this little software to do the capture to my laptop.
(http://www.breezesys.com/ if you want to check it out)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219256\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
so the eos utility crashes on PC? great.....anyone else with an experience like that.....at least it seems really stable on the mac....sloooooow but solid....still weird with all the strange windos and such but at least it works.....
i really wish apple would just spend 5min NOT on the next ipod and iphone and just fix this issue....
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james....how do you work the dell into your workflow? do you have LR on it, write the adjustments to .xmp and then import the files (with the .xmp) into your mac for post and final storage? i could see having a mac running windows and just using it for tethered shooting and connecting it to the workstation via FW targetdisk mode (and using it just as a HD at that point...)...actually the modbook (http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Modbook) would be perfect for that!....i guess you'd still have the library/settings issues....either way not what i would consider a smooth workflow......
i am really hesitant to install windows along with mac osX just to shoot tethered and am just not convinced that the "2 systems at once" workflow won't make up the difference (or the most part of it) in speed....
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I don't know how it will fit into workflow, probably only as a capture/viewing machine. The only software I plan to run on it is the canon software and some time of monitor calibration and I bought CS3 just to process a few files to make sure everything works.
It shouldn't be that much different a workflow than I have now, as we never keep images store on a capture computer anyway, we just duplicate them to multiple drives.
I really didn't want to do the parallels thing where I partioned a drive on the mac etc. etc. Probably works ok, but just didn't see the point.
If the new laptop runs as fast as our older Dell then it will be way faster than the way it worked on a mac so all is good . . . so far.
I will know in a few days when it comes in.
JR
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I don't know how it will fit into workflow, probably only as a capture/viewing machine. The only software I plan to run on it is the canon software and some time of monitor calibration and I bought CS3 just to process a few files to make sure everything works.
It shouldn't be that much different a workflow than I have now, as we never keep images store on a capture computer anyway, we just duplicate them to multiple drives.
I really didn't want to do the parallels thing where I partioned a drive on the mac etc. etc. Probably works ok, but just didn't see the point.
If the new laptop runs as fast as our older Dell then it will be way faster than the way it worked on a mac so all is good . . . so far.
I will know in a few days when it comes in.
JR
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Thanks James for the information.. really appreciate it..:+}
Do let us know how you set-up works out..
I would never go back to PC... Actually never was on a PC...:+]
Does anybody know if it is a problem that Apple is aware of and might be able to fix?
Thanks again everyone
Snook
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While I'd love to have something like this W700 (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-9314-9557) I dont really see the need at the moment. At present I'm running a 2.5MBP with a 320gb 7200rpm drive partitioned as 40gb windows and the rest MAC. Shooting on location I use a 320gb FW800 laptop drive formatted as NTFS for the captures. This sucks the laptop battery so I have a couple Batterygeeks on hand. For backup I have another 320gb portable drive that is Mac formatted and use Macdrive so that I can write to it from windows.
Given all the hacking going on of the mac OS I wouldn't be surprised if someone alot smarter than I could get a faster usb driver for leopard going. Fingers crossed......
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While I'd love to have something like this W700 (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-9314-9557) I dont really see the need at the moment. At present I'm running a 2.5MBP with a 320gb 7200rpm drive partitioned as 40gb windows and the rest MAC. Shooting on location I use a 320gb FW800 laptop drive formatted as NTFS for the captures. This sucks the laptop battery so I have a couple Batterygeeks on hand. For backup I have another 320gb portable drive that is Mac formatted and use Macdrive so that I can write to it from windows.
Given all the hacking going on of the mac OS I wouldn't be surprised if someone alot smarter than I could get a faster usb driver for leopard going. Fingers crossed......
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I know very little about PC's other than how to check e-mail in the hotel lobby, but I do know that even on my producers's 2 year old Dell laptop the downloads and prievews were fast and there was almost no buffer time at all. Well maybe a little if you held your finger on the button, but still very fast.
We looked around at PC's on the web and don't really know the difference other than the Dell had everything close to the W700, had (except the little Wacom tablet) and was $2,700 including CS3 and two 320 gig drives.
JR
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just found this (http://www.andreasoverland.no/articles/eosiphonewft.jsp)this article about dsIII wft-e2 and the iphone...very interesting....
was also going to install parallells and xp today but found this thread here on LL (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27783)in which stopped me in my tracks....
still wondering if the usb port on the wft-e2 could be of any use at all...
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just found this (http://www.andreasoverland.no/articles/eosiphonewft.jsp)this article about dsIII wft-e2 and the iphone...very interesting....
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Paul,
That guy is going the wrong way! I read all that mess, and then realized he's not using the iphone for previews; he's using it to control the camera and change the fstop.
Fifty-eight steps later, he can sit in his barcalounger with his iphone, and change the camera from f4 to f5.6? Huh?
He doesn't need coffee; he needs a life.
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Paul,
That guy is going the wrong way! I read all that mess, and then realized he's not using the iphone for previews; he's using it to control the camera and change the fstop.
Fifty-eight steps later, he can sit in his barcalounger with his iphone, and change the camera from f4 to f5.6? Huh?
He doesn't need coffee; he needs a life.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220330\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
he is also watching a thumb gallery of his shoot on the screen....you don't have to control it....
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Hi guys,
Whilst you are all here on this topic..I'm looking for a really good long usb connector to tether my canon to my mac...are there any recommendations for long leads around 3 metres plus? It's for tethering whilst shooting interiors and on many occasions you just can't get the laptop near enough the camera and still have space to shoot!
Also yes, I find the simple canon dpp + eos utility to be the best current option for tethering, a touch quicker than using hot folder in C1 4 where you need the 2 canon apps open anyway, one less app open for the memory, and perhaps I just haven't found these things in C1 4 yet but, a really usefull simple on/off grid and larger image in screen. Its pretty quick so I am assuming it shows the embedded jpeg in the raw files.
Cheers for any help on the cable,
Marc
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Hi guys,
Whilst you are all here on this topic..I'm looking for a really good long usb connector to tether my canon to my mac...are there any recommendations for long leads around 3 metres plus? It's for tethering whilst shooting interiors and on many occasions you just can't get the laptop near enough the camera and still have space to shoot!
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I know it's not suposed to work but I put a 10' usb extension cable on the 15' supplied with the III and it has work just fine - not one issue. Now they say the USB is only good to 16' but there you go.
For the 10 bucks I spent on the cable it was worth a try. A deal in anyone's book.
Ken
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I know it's not suposed to work but I put a 10' usb extension cable on the 15' supplied with the III and it has work just fine - not one issue. Now they say the USB is only good to 16' but there you go.
For the 10 bucks I spent on the cable it was worth a try. A deal in anyone's book.
Ken
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I do this all the time for my clients whether they're shooting MkIII's or the 5D, and it works like a champ!
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I think you'll find that as long as the usb extension is an active one then you can go longer than 5 meters. I have a 5meter active that I plug into a 3meter standard cable and have never had a problem. If you use a MacBookPro use the usb port closest to the magsafe it has a couple watts extra power. Not sure if they are available worldwide but Lindy make a great one.
I'm looking at investing in a usb2 to Cat6 adapter so I can run 30meter lengths. It can be such a drag getting out of the locovan and pausing the dvd. :-O
No only need to launch eos utility to use remote capture if Dpp is starting up aswell then its because you have it set as a linked app in the eos preferences.
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ok..had to bite the bullet....installed VMware and XP....
solved the problem beautifully....i shoot to a shared folder the previews pop up in aperture much faster and the best thing is the buffer problem is gone....
this really is a joke of course....i am running 2 operating systems (along with all other apps) and the usb seems 2x faster and does not have the buffer issue.....so with a new driver for osX (and without the extra OS!) this should be even faster....
i am not sure how anyone can get anything done on XP, the simplest tasks just take a lot of digging....but i don't want to flame, i am sure someone going into osX 10.5 might feel a little lost as well sometime.....
not planning on using XP for anything other then tethered shooting, can somebody tell me how to get rid of all the STUFF that comes with XP?
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re. the usb length, the standard is between 5-7 meters then it starts to degrade too much. But as Rick mentioned you can use active cables which strengthen the signal to extend it way beyond 5 meters. I use in my own studio two active and one passive linked together to form 13 meters worth of cable and you can go even further if needed.
works like a charm =)
Btw. there are active extenders/repeaters for firewire aswell.
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thanks guys for all the info re cable lengths.
Also really interesting to see how the whole process is so much quicker using xp over OSX but still on the mac...come on apple software engineers!
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not planning on using XP for anything other then tethered shooting, can somebody tell me how to get rid of all the STUFF that comes with XP?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220696\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Most stuff is really integrated into the OS, unless you know what you are doing you should not mess with it (unless you feel like spending nights behind the screen fixing)
You can make sure that no unnecessary programs are started at boot-up but if you only installed just the OS there shouldn't be that many. Look in, 'start, programs, startup' delete anything in there. Right click on programs you don't need that you will see in the task bar (bottom right) and look for the tickbox that says 'start up automatically' or something similar. The last thing that starts at boot up can be found in the registry (HKEY local machine/software/microsoft/windows/startup & HKEY current user/software/microsoft/windows/startup). Delete these and you are cleaner. There are also several services you might disable (right click my computer, manage and expand the tree till you see services).
Again, if you don't know what you are doing, don't touch it but I know.... enquiring minds want to know
I used to trim down Windows until the bare minimum. In the old days I could get 3.11 to run on less than 4MB disk space (CP/M from a single 5 1/4 floppy but lets not count that ). Nowadays I just buy faster hardware which is much cheaper and less hassle. Unbelievable how little real progress we have made in the last 20 years. Fundamentally most stuff is still the same, just gotten really complicated and bloated.
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I know it sounds lame but I have a XP style that looks alot like a mac. I forget what its called and I'm ashamed to say that I paid for it. I also used an app called something like keymapper to change the Apple key back from the start button to a crtl key. These two things have made to use bearable. The last few days I've been teching on a shoot using the mark111. On the first day we were location so shooting to the XP MBP went like a dream. The next day were in studio were a quad G5 was part of the rental deal that the photographer struck with the studio. After an hour the photog couldn't handle it any longer and asked to hire my laptop again after a quick monitor calibration while everyone had a coffee we were back at it flying. The rental guys and their tech guy were not amused at the speed increase. :-) When I get a chance I'll do a screen grab to show you how mac it looks its pretty sweet.
@ pss I'm surprised that you are getting faster transfer speeds when using VMware. I'll have a look at it over the weekend do a speed test between the three options available.
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Indeed, you do need to use the key remapper! Windows has a delete key where the Apple uses the backspace. You need to remap delete to the backspace key (or even the eject button). You also might want to use the 'right click' function of the mouse and map that to the command button. Windows relies heavily onto the right click function.
Search for key remapper in Google. There are multiple solutions for the keyboard. I found the key remapper the most reliable and pleasureable.
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tethering with VMware/XP is much faster then mac os....and most importantly the buffer is much much better.....previews pop up within 2-3 sec and the buffer is much more like the camera buffer
i am using the VMware 2.0 (RC beta) version which has a shared folder with mac os (in my case my user folder) so i can make a new folder on my mac desktop from the eos utility (running in xp) and make that folder a hotfolder for (in my case) aperture....just like from the mac....VMware actually has a "unity" function which gets rid of XP/windos completely....the eos utility just has a little blue frame around it...i can even put it in the dock....it works just like a mac app.....
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Hi
This was a shoot we did for Make Me A Super Model.
http://au.tv.yahoo.com/b/make-me-a-supermodel/961/episode-5 (http://au.tv.yahoo.com/b/make-me-a-supermodel/961/episode-5)
Go to the window on the right hand side to look at episode 5. I hope the link works outside Australia. Shot tethered with the 1DsMKIII using a 5 m usb active cable. In the end we had 10 m from camera to computer. Here are the images.
Denis
http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at...i=10000&s=1&p=0 (http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at=0&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=1&p=0)
http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at...i=10000&s=2&p=0 (http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at=0&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=2&p=0)
http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at...i=10000&s=3&p=0 (http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at=0&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=3&p=0)
http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at...i=10000&s=4&p=0 (http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at=0&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=4&p=0)
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I have no idea at all whether canon is interested in adressing this issue, but couldn't they make an gizmo that plugs into the Wifi port at the left side, that could offer FW 800? I'd buy one immediately!
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Link doesnt work outside Australia but i just saw episode 5 and i must say brilliant shoot. very much enjoyed seeing that.
And to keep it on topic, Active cables are quite a lot cheaper than the wifi solution and works flawlessly, where the wifi have been reported having loads of issues, dropping connections, not finding networks etc.
Which is sad because it would ofcourse be lovely to be entirely cord-less =)
Hi
This was a shoot we did for Make Me A Super Model.
http://au.tv.yahoo.com/b/make-me-a-supermodel/961/episode-5 (http://au.tv.yahoo.com/b/make-me-a-supermodel/961/episode-5)
Go to the window on the right hand side to look at episode 5. I hope the link works outside Australia. Shot tethered with the 1DsMKIII using a 5 m usb active cable. In the end we had 10 m from camera to computer. Here are the images.
Denis
http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at...i=10000&s=1&p=0 (http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at=0&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=1&p=0)
http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at...i=10000&s=2&p=0 (http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at=0&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=2&p=0)
http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at...i=10000&s=3&p=0 (http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at=0&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=3&p=0)
http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at...i=10000&s=4&p=0 (http://www.montalbetticampbell.com/#a=0&at=0&mi=2&pt=1&pi=10000&s=4&p=0)
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Did my shoot on friday..5 meters active cable plus 5 meters normal...shooting into canon dpp with eos utility...worked flawlessly. Great shots, client happy, more work guaranteed...nice!
Cheers guys.
Marc