Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: one|megapixel on June 30, 2008, 02:17:08 pm
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Love Hasselblad? Know your camera and care to share? We are currently seeking photographers who work with Hasselblad systems to participate in sharing their wealth of knowledge and experience with others.
We are researching ways to better improve our site that "phocus" specifically on Hasselbllad systems.
Let us know how can do better.
Thanks for taking the time.
one|megapixel
Hasselbladusers.com
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No actually I started to hate Hassle-blad and sold everything.
The pictures from the H3D suck (specially skin and texture), marketing sucks, excluding other digiback makers sucks.
I have seen all issues of the VICTOR magazine and honestly 99% of the images are ugly and skin is either green or pink like a piggie, cars have strange tints. You should stop printing that... you're scaring photographers with those colors.
If you really want to do something for photographers then add two more focus points on the very left and very right of the frame, get rid of the badass mirror-slap, work on the ugly color, the terrible skin texture, stop selling no progress with your overhyped-marketing and most importantly ...
... stop spamming useful forums.
Thank you.
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(http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif)
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Boris --- tell us how you really feel...
Anyway this post is very inappropriate and use your logic and reasoning to point out problems, I think your concerns would get more mileage. This comes off as just being angry.
No actually I started to hate Hassle-blad and sold everything.
The pictures from the H3D suck (specially skin and texture), marketing sucks, excluding other digiback makers sucks.
I have seen all issues of the VICTOR magazine and honestly 99% of the images are ugly and skin is either green or pink like a piggie, cars have strange tints. You should stop printing that... you're scaring photographers with those colors.
If you really want to do something for photographers then add two more focus points on the very left and very right of the frame, get rid of the badass mirror-slap, work on the ugly color, the terrible skin texture, stop selling no progress with your overhyped-marketing and most importantly ...
... stop spamming useful forums.
Thank you.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204555\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Pass me some will you?
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Boris,
Just to be clear, www.HasselbladUsers.com has no affiliation with Hasselblad in any official capacity. This user-group is organized by various end-user and working professional who had the clear idea of finding an appropriate forum for discussing the instricacies of Hasseblad products and technology.
Your dissatisfaction for Hasselblad as a company, and its products, is adequately voiced in your choice to not purchase Hasselblad products, or participate in there marketing. Logically, considering do not appear to be a user of Hasselblad products, you might find more appropriate, and meaningful information in the various other forums that exist.
This comes directly from www.HasselbladUsers.com "About Us" page:
"...HASSELBLADusers.com is a open forum for all photographers to discuss all things Hasselblad. We started this to be a central resource for news and information related to Hasselblad products.
We're not endorsed, nor affiliated, with Hasselblad. We're not employees or stock holders, just fans. We saw a need for a central place to share knowledge and filled it.
The forum is (and probably always will be) growing. We're actively seeking participation from industry experts and will let you know here as things develop..."
Regards,
Jordan Miller
No actually I started to hate Hassle-blad and sold everything.
The pictures from the H3D suck (specially skin and texture), marketing sucks, excluding other digiback makers sucks.
I have seen all issues of the VICTOR magazine and honestly 99% of the images are ugly and skin is either green or pink like a piggie, cars have strange tints. You should stop printing that... you're scaring photographers with those colors.
If you really want to do something for photographers then add two more focus points on the very left and very right of the frame, get rid of the badass mirror-slap, work on the ugly color, the terrible skin texture, stop selling no progress with your overhyped-marketing and most importantly ...
... stop spamming useful forums.
Thank you.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204555\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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... stop spamming useful forums.
Thank you.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204555\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
www.HasselbladUsers.com is a useful form and I visit there frequently. Obviously this individual hates Hasselblad - and wanted to voice his anger.
I find it ironic that Michael does similar, yet in much more subtle ways, in his reviews of competing products - such as the recent review of the Phase 645 - which was a good review; I wonder if it does disservice to Phase and the Hy6 to mention Hasselblad in their product reviews, although I do understand mentioning Hasselblad for context. But perhaps the reviews should be entirely devoted to the products and not include the disdain for Hasselblad. Just a thought.
Nonetheless, obviously Hasselblad has done something to piss a lot of people off, I see it's more than one person who really dislikes them.
I don't subscribe to the "locked" system notion, but perhaps there are other reasons (valid or not); maybe others here can help me understand these other reasons.
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I do not feel Michael does anything close to similar. He has made it really clear he is not happy with Hasselblad's marketing and strategy moving forward. He has provided very reasonable and logical reasons for his concerns and dislikes. I also appreciate that he declares any possible conflicts-of-interest when writing his reviews. I give him more credit than most others who fail to disclose these important issues. The world is full of perceived and real conflicts of interest and there is always going to be areas of grey (18% that is ) but does that mean folks who will be in such a scenario should not voice their opinion-- Of course not. People should just be able to disclose their potential conflict. Most people in a field of study are going to have some level of conflict. THeir opinion is important enough based on their experience that it commonly puts them in that position. Disclosure is the key.
www.HasselbladUsers.com is a useful form and I visit there frequently. Obviously this individual hates Hasselblad - and wanted to voice his anger.
I find it ironic that Michael does similar, yet in much more subtle ways, in his reviews of competing products - such as the recent review of the Phase 645 - which was a good review; I wonder if it does disservice to Phase and the Hy6 to mention Hasselblad in their product reviews, although I do understand mentioning Hasselblad for context. But perhaps the reviews should be entirely devoted to the products and not include the disdain for Hasselblad. Just a thought.
Nonetheless, obviously Hasselblad has done something to piss a lot of people off, I see it's more than one person who really dislikes them.
I don't subscribe to the "locked" system notion, but perhaps there are other reasons (valid or not); maybe others here can help me understand these other reasons.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204579\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I do not feel Michael does anything close to similar. He has made it really clear he is not happy with Hasselblad's marketing and strategy moving forward. He has provided very reasonable and logical reasons for his concerns and dislikes. I also appreciate that he declares any possible conflicts-of-interest when writing his reviews. I give him more credit than most others who fail to disclose these important issues. The world is full of perceived and real conflicts of interest and there is always going to be areas of grey (18% that is ) but does that mean folks who will be in such a scenario should not voice their opinion-- Of course not. People should just be able to disclose their potential conflict. Most people in a field of study are going to have some level of conflict. THeir opinion is important enough based on their experience that it puts them in that position. Disclosure is the key.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204593\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'll re-read the review, but my impression was that it was more than simply declaring a conflict-of-interest. Perhaps that is your perception of it.
I don't really want to defend Hasselblad either, I just use their equipment. I hope I'm not misunderstood, I do not want to defend Hasselblad.
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As Mark has written above, my problem is not with Hasselblad the product. I have two H bodies and five lenses, and they are among the best photographic instruments I have ever owned.
My problem is with the company's management. Through closing the H line and preventing system owners who have other brand backs from benefiting from future developments such as new lenses, I feel that they have done a great disservice.
Michael
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As Mark has written above, my problem is not with Hasselblad the product. I have two H bodies and five lenses, and they are among the best photographic instruments I have ever owned.
My problem is with the company's management. Through closing the H line and preventing system owners who have other brand backs from benefiting from future developments such as new lenses, I feel that they have done a great disservice.
Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204605\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You should try getting a response from their management when your name is not Michael R. and you've just dropped $65K and your brand new cameras don't work!
I did re-read the review, you most certainly make it perfectly clear, a couple of times, that you are unhappy that your current H equipment is locked from newer lenses (and whatever else they sell). I do understand. But repeating it in reviews of competing products?
I do not buy that you're claiming any "conflict-of-interest." It's no conflict to be angry that your investment is shot to sh?t. It seems like your reviews take crack shots at Hasselblad, and perhaps it is warranted. Also, I would not be reading your reviews if I didn't trust you, I did not see any bias in your review (or others for that matter).
I should not have connected your review, in any way, with this angry poster. For that I apologize and stand corrected.
Again, please do not misunderstand me, I do not defend Hasselblad at all.
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No offense taken.
I write about what interests me, nothing more, nothing less. I recognize that I have an audience of almost a million people each month, and therefore need to offer a balanced view of things, but I also try and make a case for what I think to be important and right.
I see no problem in criticizing Hasselblad's management in a review of a Phase product, just as later this week I'll be criticizing the lack of a certain feature in a Canon product that Nikon does very well. It's all fair game.
Michael
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No offense taken.
I write about what interests me, nothing more, nothing less. I recognize that I have an audience of almost a million people each month, and therefore need to offer a balanced view of things, but I also try and make a case for what I think to be important and right.
I see no problem in criticizing Hasselblad's management in a review of a Phase product, just as later this week I'll be criticizing the lack of a certain feature in a Canon product that Nikon does very well. It's all fair game.
Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204639\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I am a H system user 3 bodies and 5 lens with 2 phaseone back.
I thought Michael is right to criticize hasselblad policy.
At least because he is a H user too.
From my experience, closed system never survive eg. Kodak, Scitex etc.
Especially if closed system could not service customer well. eg. overprice sparepart, overcharged service etc.
Hasselblad is doing the right thing to reduce H3D. I can't find reason why people buy H1 or H2 with Phaseone or Leaf price at cheaper price than H3D in the past.
Time will tell. I really hope Hasselblad survive because I invest a lot of money on H already.
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Hasselblad has "dropped" its price - thus shows their lock-down policy/system is hurting and has back-fired! To crawl back their once mighty market share of users in the MF digital is NOT going to be easy and I too hope they survive. I know they have lost a lot of Hasselblad users to Phase (being open system). I've been with Hasselblad since 1970s with the 6x6 and recently H3D. I'm still angry that they haven't provided alternative power system for those using LF camera sys (ie Cambo, Bicam, Alpha...) with the H3D. I've only recently discovered a $100 solution to Hasselblad $2,000 solution to power my back on a LF system!
So I'm with you Michael...
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The Hasselblad forums are mainly for V lovers. I post in the Hasselblad forums every now and then. Despite there are a few but very concerned, helpful and enourmously versed photogs with the V system, these forums are getting more emptied by the minute.
I think the main reason is Hasselblad's lack of interest in the V. Come on, the CFv backs are certainly not enough.
From the beginning of digital, Hasselblad had the oportunity to lead the digital medium format market because they had V cameras&glass all over the world waiting for the right digital back. They neglected this volume market. The formula was simple. Sell thousands of digital backs at restrained profits. Keep thousands of happy photogs as loyal customers. Keep selling them thousands of expensive glass. Eventually when the V got totally obsolete, introduced them to new expensive toys.
But no, they chose the philosophy of "It's safer to be feared than loved".
Meanwhile, rich and high roller photogs went into the H system, Phase, Leaf, Sinar, etc., etc. Photographers with less than mega dollar income had to choose dslr's.
Now, they close their H3d system and piss off some more people. Phewww!!!
I'd like to tell Hasselblad, it is not too late to really support the V system. IMHO it's still a very efficient system for all those photographers that love to set things by themselves. The V system was and still is the the best marriage between the viewcamera and the "auto-portable" camera that ever existed. Amen of still being the most handsome camera including the Hy6/Afi.
Thanks for reading.
Eduardo
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I never understood the term "closed" system. its not really hasselblad that closed the system, maybe they won't release data on the back pinouts, but its the other back manufacturers in my mind that closed out the system. reacting to the competition of a complete camera maybe? interesting how they now have come up with there own cameras. think about it, car makers dont share engine and fuel injection data to aftermarket chip tuners, chip tuners reverse engineer the ecu's. apple didn't release an iphone sdk at first, people reverse engineered one. it would take phase and leaf about a day to get a back working on a h3d body, and that is if they haven't done that already. and legally they aren't doing anything wrong by doing so. i can legally strap a xerox copier to the back of my h3d2 if i want. i know this may be off topic, but the closed system thing always reeks to me of marketing bs....
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If a camera allows other makers backs to be attached (physically, technically and legally) but the company subsequently makes it impossible for them to do so, then it becomes a closed system.
If owners of the system are forced to abandon their $20K - $30K back investments to take advantage of new lens technology, because their backs are made incompatible, then it's a closed system.
What part of the word "closed" don't you understand?
Michael
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Now, they close their H3d system and piss off some more people. Phewww!!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205047\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Actually they did more than that. They refused to fix quite a few 50-110mm zoom lenses which were falling apart, and they engaged in some pretty cynical marketing too. I've heard more stories that I can't share right now.
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Actually they did more than that. They refused to fix quite a few 50-110mm zoom lenses which were falling apart, and they engaged in some pretty cynical marketing too. I've heard more stories that I can't share right now.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205119\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't understand these brand wars.
For what it's worth, I think the closed off H3 can be a good thing, in fact I can see lemonaid from lemons if the companies take this as a challange and really step up.
I hear a lot of complaints about Hasselblad where people say if Hasselblad wants to sell more digital backs they should make a better digital back, not close off the camera.
I'm good with that, but the flip side is if Phase, Leaf and Sinar want to sell cameras they have to make a better camera than the H series and they have to get it into the hands of people who buy, rent and who tech. They should also have a more comprehensive lens line, have better service AND a better price.
An open system, well ok I guess that's good, though if all of these backs would swap mounts easily and wihtout issue that would go a long way to being even more open.
JR
P.S. I still don't understand the Panic about the H series. I've never been in a market where you couldn't buy an H-1 or 2 in minutes, so I will bet there are a lot more H series setting on the shelves than their are digital backs.
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this part...
please explain how anyone was forced out of a 20-30k investment? if i had a h2 and say a p45, it still works right? or is it because i cant use the 1 lens (28mm) that was made for the h3? i mean that lens wasn't even made when the h2 was made so its not like something was ever taken away. h2 or h1 users bought those cameras with no offerings wider than 35mm, why should they expect a new lens?
some software and hardware doesn't work with vista or leopard, are they closing the system? does it suck? yes it can at times, is it progress? i think so. can people still run os 9 apps on intel machines?
i guess my point to all this is, its the back makers that aren't making backs that work on h3's. there is no law that says phase cant reverse engineer the communication between the back and body and produce one that does work. it probably wouldn't be that hard. i mean someone could even re-write the cameras firmware if they wanted and make it work with the 28! ford, toyota, bmw are they closed systems because they dont hand over engineering data to aftermarket manufactures? no...
not on the swedish payroll by the way, and i do appreciate compatibility and choices, just always thought the closed camera argument was a little fishy, sorry bored today billing is no fun...
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P.S. I still don't understand the Panic about the H series. I've never been in a market where you couldn't buy an H-1 or 2 in minutes, so I will bet there are a lot more H series setting on the shelves than their are digital backs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205135\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The big panic started with the "H" 28mm not being compatible with any of the H1 or H2 cameras. This was a very simple message from Hasselblad: "Not other back or camera than the H3D/H3DII will be able to mount this lens". Then was the descontinuation of the H2... etc..., etc...
For me they were reasons to sell all my H system. They wanted me to abandon Phase One and I droped them instead... well not my V system but the closed one.
Can you imagin? I owned two H systems, H1 and H2. Both were discontinued in a couple of years while I was using them "as new" while my 10 year old 503CW is still in production and with thousands of accessories I can buy used or new.
Does it make sense?
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this part...
please explain how anyone was forced out of a 20-30k investment? if i had a h2 and say a p45, it still works right? or is it because i cant use the 1 lens (28mm) that was made for the h3? i mean that lens wasn't even made when the h2 was made so its not like something was ever taken away. h2 or h1 users bought those cameras with no offerings wider than 35mm, why should they expect a new lens?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205137\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
A lot of people wanted to use this lens and there was no reason to close the H2 out. And the proof is that the new H2F will be able to mount it just because of a firmware patch.
That's why people burn...
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Meesh,
Your arguments are neither well thought out, accurate, or well presented, so I see not point in debating this with you further. You're either ignoring or are ignorant of the facts of the matter.
Michael
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A lot of people wanted to use this lens and there was no reason to close the H2 out. And the proof is that the new H2F will be able to mount it just because of a firmware patch.
That's why people burn...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205141\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Wait, the H2F will be able to use the 28mm lens? Are you serious?
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Does it make sense?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205140\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well despite the negative publicity the move generated it certainly has made sense for Hasselblad, their sales have grown significantly of late.
Nick-T
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Meesh,
Your arguments are neither well thought out, accurate, or well presented, so I see not point in debating this with you further. You're either ignoring or are ignorant of the facts of the matter.
Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205143\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Michael,
I understand where your coming from but on the other hand it's just the way things are in the digital world, hell even the modern world.
You know that as well as anyone. It's true with Software, hardware, even broadband connection.
All the companies are trying to move us to new product any way they can.
JR
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Why I thought Hasselblad is closed system?
You can't mount H3D back on H1 or H2 even H1D or H2.
This makes H1D and H2D body has much less value than it should.
What is the reason? Is it fair to these user?
If something goes wrong with H3D, you are in trouble.
My Fuji GX645 died 2nd time yesterday.
I think H system is not very tough. Shutter life is too short.
Reparing is expensive.
Too bad accurate focus manual adjustable high speed sync of H system is so good.
So that is the trade off.
I don't know what Hasselblad management is thinking.
The new comer should be warning seriously.
kitty
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Wait, the H2F will be able to use the 28mm lens? Are you serious?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205144\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes! Together with the CF back it will.
Now, I understand people being upset because of the closed nature of the H3. I am not convinced it should be that way as well. I don't understand that people are overlooking the other options you have with Hasselblad, eg. the CF series. The closed nature of the H3 is becoming like the 35mm vs MFDB thing, a beaten to death horse.
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As always on this forum, an interesting thread......
My tuppence worth.....
I believe that the open/closed debate was more relevant in the earlier days of digital. People were gradually migrating from MF film to MFDB and, understandably, wanted both choice and flexibility, without having to break the bank. If possible, they wanted to adapt their existing MF film system to digital. Phase have continued to offer this more than just about any other back maker.
I had been using (and still very occasionally do) Mamiya RB67s for over 20 years. They had paid for themselves many times over and, as Ebay will testify, are worth very little. I could buy a back for them, or I could make a clean break. I chose the latter.
As luck would have it, my timing has been perfect. By upgrading through Canon 40D, 20D, 5D and now IDsMk3, in parallel with shooting 4x5, I have managed to hold off on the purchase of MFDB until this year.
In January, I availed on Hassie's offer of €6k off a H3Dll 39Mp MS. I got it with a 50-110mm, 80mm, spare batter grip and second grid screen. To avail of the offer, you had to trade in any digital camera and a lens. I went out and bought an old Canon lens for €40 and gave them my 40D with it! I *always* haggle and if I told you what that entire package cost, it would make you weep. It was NOT list. I promise you!
In addition, during the four months I was waiting for the camera to arrive, I had unlimited use of a 39Mp single shot camera with any lens I needed - all free of charge. It meant I could familiarize myself with the system at someone else's expense and without *messing* with my own new camera at this learning stage.
The files from this camera are astonishing, but that's off topic.................
D.
ps. The last time I checked, my 1DsMk3 is a closed system too. However, I admit it does not suffer from any backward compatability - a very, very bold move by Hasselblad. But, as I wrote above, my timing was perfect, so I haven't been caught by that.
pps. The point made above about it being equally incumbent on the likes of Phase to make decent cameras is very well made.
pps. In 25 years in this business, in terms of bangs for my buck/picture quality/customer satisfaction etc., the best camera I have *ever* owned is the Canon 5D. If the truth be told, it would do the job 90% of the time. But, that's VERY off topic!
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Yes! Together with the CF back it will.
Now, I understand people being upset because of the closed nature of the H3. I am not convinced it should be that way as well. I don't understand that people are overlooking the other options you have with Hasselblad, eg. the CF series. The closed nature of the H3 is becoming like the 35mm vs MFDB thing, a beaten to death horse.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205180\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Misunderstanding: I have been considering an H2F body for my bag for long film exposures (since my H3DII39's still can't do more than 32 seconds) and the notion that the 28mm would work with film grabbed me - I thought the H2F was just a film camera.
So will the 28mm work on film in the H2F?
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Misunderstanding: I have been considering an H2F body for my bag for long film exposures (since my H3DII39's still can't do more than 32 seconds) and the notion that the 28mm would work with film grabbed me - I thought the H2F was just a film camera.
So will the 28mm work on film in the H2F?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205206\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi
The Hasselblad 28mm is only designed for the digital chip. It cannot work with film there will be cut off.
Denis
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Hi
The Hasselblad 28mm is only designed for the digital chip. It cannot work with film there will be cut off.
Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205213\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thank you, that is exactly what I thought, but when I read the original post it did not mention a digital back on the H2F - hence my question.
Be well.
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The big panic started with the "H" 28mm not being compatible with any of the H1 or H2 cameras. This was a very simple message from Hasselblad: "Not other back or camera than the H3D/H3DII will be able to mount this lens". Then was the descontinuation of the H2... etc..., etc...
For me they were reasons to sell all my H system. They wanted me to abandon Phase One and I droped them instead... well not my V system but the closed one.
Can you imagin? I owned two H systems, H1 and H2. Both were discontinued in a couple of years while I was using them "as new" while my 10 year old 503CW is still in production and with thousands of accessories I can buy used or new.
Does it make sense?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205140\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Had it ever crossed your mind that for the 28 to work correctly that some additions had to be made to the body, creating the H3, that couldn't be retro fitted to the H1/2 to work properly image wise with a digital capture? I am sure there would be a ton of bitching if the lens could work on a H1/2 but without the information being recorded with the file that the H3 does.
Ever heard of the term "bleeding edge"? Well I know it is hard to think of it in the photography world as things moved much slower in the first 150 years but that is what we have now.
How many newly designed from the clean sheet cars are any good at the beginning? Isn't it typical for the first year or so of production to have more than enough flaws, some that don't show until a few years later as the part fails and a redesign is done to correct the problem? Just one example. Hell, even Apple has shown a similar behavior that you seem to be bitching on Hasselblad about.
Now, I currently don't own a Hasselblad but I did shoot them for about 20 years. I may finally buy one again but I chose to sit the sidelines instead of going bleeding edge with 40K.
My 15 bucks...
Ken
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Now this is good!
(http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/images/smilies/popcorn.gif)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204565\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi
The Hasselblad 28mm is only designed for the digital chip. It cannot work with film there will be cut off.
Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205213\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's true, Denis, and Hasselblad has stated that the reason is that there would be compromises in designing the 28mm lens so that it would "work" with the full frame of 6x4.5 film(and without the ability to provide digital correction of lens defects through the Hasselblad software), and these compromises could be most cost effectively solved by designing the lens to work with the smaller digital chip. Is this marketing spin or true? I don't know, but it is a fact that Mamiya's lenses were always priced way lower than Hasselblad's, yet the new Mamiya 28mm lens is way more expensive that the Hassy 28mm. Mamiya's 28 works with film. Was Mamiya able to produce a lens with the same quality as Hassy's, albeit at a much higher price? I have not seen a head-to-head comparison of the two lenses, but the images I have seen from the Mamiya show a lot of softness at the edges. Perhaps someone without an axe to grind has done this comparison. Love to see it.
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Had it ever crossed your mind that for the 28 to work correctly that some additions had to be made to the body,
Ken
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205218\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Do you really believe that the H2F is in any way a redesigned h2? No it isn't, it's a modified H2. Very different things.
The good thing about good cars is that they'll be around almost forever. And repairs cost nothing compared to a DB upgrade/repair.
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when H came out with their 28 and when they closed out the older users from using it with their h1 and h2, and when they closed out older backs from the h3 i just was shaking my head and thought that HAS to be their end, because its so barefaced that i really couldnt get it.
but what actually happens is the opposite. hasselblad is among , if not the, most succesfull back/ camera maker. i hardly understand how so many people buy in this system and do not see the activities of this company. this is telling much about us photographers and about our times.....
similar about leaf:
today i spoke with a big reseller of leaf, they just had sold ( 2 months ago ) three demo units of the aptus 75 to architecure collegues of mine in munich and its really stunning to know how many backs are still returned and exchanged ( and still is claimed as long as possible the issue dont exist ). two of the three backs are back, one of them the second time. centerfold.
i know, most of you dont see it and it might not be a big deal with cameras as the afi,- but on shift cameras it is still a big deal in a big percentage. and leaf is able to sell these backs with a definitive ( in my eyes ) knock out defect product about a whole product cycle!! and they dont sell bad!
i remember phase.
when i was working years ago with kodak chips i contacted phase users and dealers with the horrible color casts i got if i shifted lenses. at that time the lcc correction was not taken into the software and kodak simply said there is no colorshift.
only with my chip. they never have heard of it. this politic they made over several years, although this shifts are system immanent and there is no way to avoid them without lcc shots or similar way of inverting the colors. they simply denied them,- and they sold very well, in that time i believe they have been number one.
for sinar their handling of their software over years sure wasnt a glorius chapter too ,although i escaped of this problem together in helping stefan to designing a own software solution for my needs, because it was immediately obvious that there was no way to make architecture shots with cs.
but .... for my taste the hasselblad thing is the most impertinent and i give 5black stars to them, because its not an issue which you cant solve and with which you dont see another solution than denying it or closing your company ,- its pure money making politic on the back of their customers.
several of the smarter guys here will now say.... well thats ok if it makes the business better.
i cant agree with this .... and i dont work with my clients in this or a similar way.
but: unfortunately H have success. more than the others in the market, as i believe.
crazy.
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when H came out with their 28 and when they closed out the older users from using it with their h1 and h2, and when they closed out older backs from the h3 i just was shaking my head and thought that HAS to be their end, because its so barefaced that i really couldnt get it.
but what actually happens is the opposite. hasselblad is among , if not the, most succesfull back/ camera maker. i hardly understand how so many people buy in this system and do not see the activities of this company. this is telling much about us photographers and about our times.....
similar about leaf:
today i spoke with a big reseller of leaf, they just had sold ( 2 months ago ) three demo units of the aptus 75 to architecure collegues of mine in munich and its really stunning to know how many backs are still returned and exchanged ( and still is claimed as long as possible the issue dont exist ). two of the three backs are back, one of them the second time. centerfold.
i know, most of you dont see it and it might not be a big deal with cameras as the afi,- but on shift cameras it is still a big deal in a big percentage. and leaf is able to sell these backs with a definitive ( in my eyes ) knock out defect product about a whole product cycle!! and they dont sell bad!
i remember phase.
when i was working years ago with kodak chips i contacted phase users and dealers with the horrible color casts i got if i shifted lenses. at that time the lcc correction was not taken into the software and kodak simply said there is no colorshift.
only with my chip. they never have heard of it. this politic they made over several years, although this shifts are system immanent and there is no way to avoid them without lcc shots or similar way of inverting the colors. they simply denied them,- and they sold very well, in that time i believe they have been number one.
for sinar their handling of their software over years sure wasnt a glorius chapter too ,although i escaped of this problem together in helping stefan to designing a own software solution for my needs, because it was immediately obvious that there was no way to make architecture shots with cs.
but .... for my taste the hasselblad thing is the most impertinent and i give 5black stars to them, because its not an issue which you cant solve and with which you dont see another solution than denying it or closing your company ,- its pure money making politic on the back of their customers.
several of the smarter guys here will now say.... well thats ok if it makes the business better.
i cant agree with this .... and i dont work with my clients in this or a similar way.
but: unfortunately H have success. more than the others in the market, as i believe.
crazy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205326\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ranier,
I don't disagree with a single point your making and I know a lot of it just isn't right, but as an agent told me once, do you want to be right or rich? I replied both, but that's another story.
It's not just Hasselblad though, it's just the current cycle of non stop upgrades from cameras, to computer to software and photographers aren't the only ones effected.
Regardless, I didn't base my camera decsions of whether I liked or disliked Hasselblad, I based them on the fact I just didn't like the camera and the lenses.
Obviously some people feel differently about it.
I still believe the biggest mistake two of the back makers have made is having a fixed mount.
Had it only beenn a $500 quick change to go to another system, I think a lot less H2's and 3's would have been sold.
JR
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Had it ever crossed your mind that for the 28 to work correctly that some additions had to be made to the body, creating the H3, that couldn't be retro fitted to the H1/2 to work properly image wise with a digital capture?
It is well known that Hasselblad locked out the 28mm with firmware to promote their own line of DBs. There is no other technical reason.
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unfortunately H have success. more than the others in the market, as i believe.
crazy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205326\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Rainer, this might sound crazy but I believe many pros aren't capable or don't have the time to really judge all the systems for themselves. They will just go with the platform which is making the most noise and which they see others use. There will always be a portion of any market which follows the trends blindly.
If I were competing with Hasselblad, I would match their marketing exposure, and make sure the competing camera was seen in the hands of well-known professionals, and I would make sure that the camera was available in rental outfits wherever the Hasselblad is available, etc.
Time and time again I see people here basing their purchase on the basis of there being only one product available from a local dealer.
There are many factors other than product quality which can lead to sales.
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when H came out with their 28 and when they closed out the older users from using it with their h1 and h2, and when they closed out older backs from the h3 i just was shaking my head and thought that HAS to be their end, because its so barefaced that i really couldnt get it.
but what actually happens is the opposite. hasselblad is among , if not the, most succesfull back/ camera maker. i hardly understand how so many people buy in this system and do not see the activities of this company. this is telling much about us photographers and about our times.....
several of the smarter guys here will now say.... well thats ok if it makes the business better.
i cant agree with this .... and i dont work with my clients in this or a similar way.
but: unfortunately H have success. more than the others in the market, as i believe.
crazy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205326\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Don't you feel just a bit hypocritical working for/with Sinar, which has essentially done the exact same thing with the Hy6? I have not seen many Phase backs on a Hy6, have you? So many times that issue was raised here over the last 18 months, and the Sinar rep always answered in ways that reminded me of Muhammad Ali bobbing and weaving.
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Don't you feel just a bit hypocritical working for/with Sinar, which has essentially done the exact same thing with the Hy6? I have not seen many Phase backs on a Hy6, have you? So many times that issue was raised here over the last 18 months, and the Sinar rep always answered in ways that reminded me of Muhammad Ali bobbing and weaving.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205354\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
just becuse they made the arTek with me or with my specs does not mean that i am working for /with sinar more than in the way that sinar brought now out the camera in closer co-operation with me. also my part of the work before with stefan was a thing, which primarily started to solve problems i encounterd in my personal workflow. although there was a lot of exchange between sinar, stefan and me and sinar took over several parts of stefans code. but maybe you realized that brumbaer tools never became sinar tools, which i would have liked a lot.
i am 100% free to say whatever i want. and if you`ve read my post i wrote about them as about the three others.
and i - as many others here - dont share your opinion that the hy6 mount is even similar to what hasselblad did with the h3.
further its rare that i put my comments about other stuff than architure shooting related ones here. i dont remember that i wrote ever about the h3, but maybe i did and i forgot. usually it dont interest me. but that i should stop now to post what i want for beeing involved in the arTec project? i think you can forget this .....
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... and one more, for the "poor" and "stupid" Sinar rep: cheers and enjoy your ride.
FYI concerning your comment on Rainer's words: did you notice that he did say something against Sinar, not praising?
Are you just here to bash whatever comes from this side, or do you also have time left for more glorious tasks?
Concerning my at-that-time "bobbing and weaving", it has nevertheless proven absolutely right, so far.
Best regards,
Thierry
Don't you feel just a bit hypocritical working for/with Sinar, which has essentially done the exact same thing with the Hy6? I have not seen many Phase backs on a Hy6, have you? So many times that issue was raised here over the last 18 months, and the Sinar rep always answered in ways that reminded me of Muhammad Ali bobbing and weaving.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205354\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]