Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Jeff74400 on June 07, 2008, 11:44:55 am

Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Jeff74400 on June 07, 2008, 11:44:55 am
Hi,
I use actually a 1DsIII but I am looking to invest in a MF 39Mp DB for landscape photography and I hesitate between a P45 (or P45+) and a Hassy 39Mp.
My main question is the IQ of both 28mm from Hasselblad and Mamiya because I use wide angles in most of my work.
What combo will be the best, HD39 + Hassy 28mm or Mamiya AFDII + Phaseone P45 + Mamiya 28mm ?
Thank's for your advice
Jeff
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Graham Mitchell on June 07, 2008, 11:52:23 am
If you want to use the Hasselblad 28mm lens you will have to use the Hasselblad back. Other backs have been locked out.

I would suggest comparing 39MP results with the 33MP backs too before spending this much money.

I would also suggest looking into a compact view camera with a 24mm or 35mm lens, if wide angle is important to you. The view camera lenses are usually a step up in quality, and you have the added bonus of shift/tilt capability.

Another very interesting possibility for landscape shooters:

http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/...8/d925/f934.cfm (http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/application/d438/d925/f934.cfm)

For purely wide angle landscape use, you won't get the best image quality from a medium format camera.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: thsinar on June 07, 2008, 11:59:44 am
That's exactly what I would recommend too.

Take your time and more importantly compare all existing digital systems and cameras available. A compact view camera would certainly make more sense and offer better possibilities: there will be situation, even with a 28mm, where you will need a little shift, or adjust the sharpness plane. Think carefully and don't rush.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
If you want to use the Hasselblad 28mm lens you will have to use the Hasselblad back. Other backs have been locked out.

I would suggest comparing 39MP results with the 33MP backs too before spending this much money.

I would also suggest looking into a compact view camera with a 24mm or 35mm lens, if wide angle is important to you. The view camera lenses are usually a step up in quality, and you have the added bonus of shift/tilt capability.

Another very interesting possibility for landscape shooters:

http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/...8/d925/f934.cfm (http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/application/d438/d925/f934.cfm)

For purely wide angle landscape use, you won't get the best image quality from a medium format camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200282\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Khun_K on June 07, 2008, 12:19:13 pm
Quote
That's exactly what I would recommend too.

Take your time and more importantly compare all existing digital systems and cameras available. A compact view camera would certainly make more sense and offer better possibilities: there will be situation, even with a 28mm, where you will need a little shift, or adjust the sharpness plane. Think carefully and don't rush.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200285\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The difference between a 39 mb and 33 mb is less than the quality and preference one is to find out  between the backs.  H3D with the new Phocus software is a good improvement, but pretty much lock itself up with other system or on a view camera platform, unless a separate power source/HDD bank is connected.  Hasselblad pretty much develop all the digital corrections along with their own system on the Phocus, not anything else, although it is still useful.  If one is looking for a flexible system, tethered or just the back on battery power, to look beyond just the pixel count may be a good idea.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: MarkKay on June 07, 2008, 01:22:31 pm
I have the hasselblad H3DII-31 and I think this is a marvelous set up.  The 28mm HC lens is superb in terms of lack of distortion and image sharpness. The downside is that it is reported the 31 back suffers from severe color casts if used on a view or technical camera.  The reason is the microlenses. However, as a result, the iso800 images have less noise than the 1DsmkIII (with no NR)  and are super sharp.   With the next release of phocus, we should be at iso1600. If you plan to consider using on a view camera, you should consider the 39meg back.  It is true that you will need the imagebankII to power the back.  The nice thing is that while on the hassy camera, you have one battery for the camera and back. The HC lenses are leaf shutters, which some people like.   I used to use a Leaf aptus 65 and Hassy H2.  I was impressed with the images from Leaf as well but this earlier model back did not do well at higher isos and that was a consideration for me. The nice thing about the hassy system is the glass camera and back are all integrated and allow for digital corrections in the software.  The downside again is the fact that there are currently no lenses that allow for shifts or tilts.
There are others who have discussed ergonomics and other issues -- the importance of which will vary from person to person. One of the hardest things for me to get used to is the mirror slap with the MF cameras. The hassy has CF options that all for differential delays between shutter release and mirror flip-- which is quite useful at times. However, I like the ease of just using mirror lockup, which I use more than 75% of the time anyway.

In my mind no one system represents the perfect solution. There has been a lot written here and other sites that might help you make your decision.  


Quote
The difference between a 39 mb and 33 mb is less than the quality and preference one is to find out  between the backs.  H3D with the new Phocus software is a good improvement, but pretty much lock itself up with other system or on a view camera platform, unless a separate power source/HDD bank is connected.  Hasselblad pretty much develop all the digital corrections along with their own system on the Phocus, not anything else, although it is still useful.  If one is looking for a flexible system, tethered or just the back on battery power, to look beyond just the pixel count may be a good idea.
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Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Jeff74400 on June 07, 2008, 01:46:20 pm
Wide angle is important for me but I need a system that allow me to take picture from 28mm to 300mm. So the roundshot is not an option.
I have read that the Mamiya 28mm as some corner softness, is it true...?
The advantage of the Hassy 28mm seems to be the possibility to use a polarising filter...?
Best regard's and thank's for your help.
Jeff

My Webpage (http://www.lumieresdaltitude.com)
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: josayeruk on June 07, 2008, 02:02:28 pm
Quote
Wide angle is important for me but I need a system that allow me to take picture from 28mm to 300mm. So the roundshot is not an option.
I have read that the Mamiya 28mm as some corner softness, is it true...?
The advantage of the Hassy 28mm seems to be the possibility to use a polarising filter...?
Best regard's and thank's for your help.
Jeff

My Webpage (http://www.lumieresdaltitude.com)
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=200305\")

I've rented the Hass 28 a few times and have had no probs with corner sharpness.  

You could take a look at Nick Rains review on this site as he is coming from your perspective...

[a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/h3d-review.shtml]http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/came...3d-review.shtml[/url]

..and there is a new Hass digital forum which has a section for prospective purchasers.  The members are all owners...

http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/came...3d-review.shtml (http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/h3d-review.shtml)

http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com/ (http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com/)

Jo S.x
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: eronald on June 07, 2008, 02:06:27 pm
If you're just going for wide you should get a Cambo or Alpa with a Phase or Sinar or Leaf back - I don't think you'll get that much sharpness from the Mamiya 28.  People have been citing problems with samples of this lens. The Hassy may be sharper. The Schneider etc solution seems to deliver consistent quality for those that use it.

Edmund

Quote
Wide angle is important for me but I need a system that allow me to take picture from 28mm to 300mm. So the roundshot is not an option.
I have read that the Mamiya 28mm as some corner softness, is it true...?
The advantage of the Hassy 28mm seems to be the possibility to use a polarising filter...?
Best regard's and thank's for your help.
Jeff

My Webpage (http://www.lumieresdaltitude.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200305\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: STEVE K on June 07, 2008, 02:39:35 pm
Jeff, amazing stuff on your website
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: STEVE K on June 07, 2008, 02:45:23 pm
Someone else will probably be able to answer this, how well do these systems handle the extreme conditions in which you appear to shoot in.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Graham Mitchell on June 07, 2008, 03:41:41 pm
Quote
Wide angle is important for me but I need a system that allow me to take picture from 28mm to 300mm. So the roundshot is not an option.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200305\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ok, then perhaps you need to use the same digital back on two platforms. You can still use a Cambo or Alpa for the best possible wide performance, then add a medium format SLR for the normal to telephoto lenses.

What are you shooting with 300mm? Still landscape?
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: abiggs on June 07, 2008, 03:42:31 pm
I think about it this way. Are you planning on using 28mm to 300mm on the same shoot? If so, I would consider the SLR options alone (Hassy, Mamyia/Phase, Sinar). If you will do wide angle work that is separate from others, I would put some serious thought into going the view camera route. Why? Because the results speak for themselves. I recently jumped on board on the Mamiya platform, and only went as wide as the 35mm. If I am doing wide angle work exlusively, I will likely go with a 2 or 3 lens view camera setup. Something like a 28mm, 35mm, 47mm or 58mm. I just don't know. But I have tested some different setups, and I have been amazed at the quality of these files with good Rodenstock or Schneider glass on a view camera.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: jecxz on June 07, 2008, 03:58:46 pm
I suggest the H3DII39, which has a a lens set from 28mm to 300mm, or 500mm with the 1.7x -- which produces sharp results. Remember, if you're stating "300mm" coming from 35mm, 300mm is not the same in MF.

The H system is a complete system, has been through its paces and is backed by a company that takes care of its customers, trust me, I know, I have had first hand experience with that statement.

As stated, demo every system you can, make your comparison, then decide. I'm sure you'll discover the best system for you and your photography. Good luck.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: josayeruk on June 07, 2008, 05:39:03 pm
Don't forget you can remove the back from the H3DII and fit it to Cambo, Alpa, Sinar etc etc.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: jonstewart on June 07, 2008, 06:03:54 pm
Quote
Don't forget you can remove the back from the H3DII and fit it to Cambo, Alpa, Sinar etc etc.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200337\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I second the idea of getting a view cam for wide work

Have a look at the Silvestri Bicam, as well as those that Jo mentioned above.

Cheers
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: j.miller on June 07, 2008, 09:34:53 pm
In addition to the H3DII-39, which would offer tremendous capability in conjunction with the HC-D 28mm lens, as well as practical functionality on a view camera / technical camera, Hasselblad's CF (or CFII) Series back could be another consideration.

The new H2F, in conjunction with the current CF-Series or CFII-Series backs will allow you to use and properly correct the HC-D 28mm. The CF or CFII backs also give you portable, on-board battery operation when the back is mounted on any camera, including view camera / technical camera. On-board battery capability is not possible with the H3DII back, which is why you would need either the ImageBank II (with L-type battery) or bus-power via FireWire (ie. tethered). The H2F / CFII combination would give capability with the HC-D 28mm lens, as well as more elegant portable capability with cameras such as the ALPA 12 series, or the various digital specific view cameras (ie. ARCA-SWISS, Linhof, Plaubel, etc.).

As with all systems, there will always be some comprise for certain capabilities, which is exactly why the H3DII-39 would be ideal in conjunction with various HC-Series lenses, and "not as ideal" when used in the field with a view camera / technical camera. On the flip side, the H2F / CFII combination will not provide all same capability, image quality, functionality, and control as the H3DII-39, yet will be "ideal" when using the back on various camera platforms such a view camera or technical, super-wide camera.

I would certainly look at the various options out there, and investigate them all in detail. As you can tell by this thread, there are numerous options, all of which have merit, and capability depending on your specific needs. A qualified dealer should be able to help you narrow you options down, and go into the various systems and configurations in detail.

Feel free to contact me directly if I can be of help in your decision making process.

Regards,

Jordan Miller
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: NicholasR on June 07, 2008, 09:52:43 pm
I own the H3D mk1, and do a bit of landscape photography with it.  I also climb, drag it into the backcountry, and do the sorts of things with it that you probably would.

Thoughts:

It's a heavy camera and system.  Long lenses especially, but compared to my old pentax 645 it's outrageous how big the lenses are.  It drags me down when I go out with the strong boys and am trying to keep up.

Lack of internal battery really bothers me.  For extended trips in the backcountry I'd really love to get an alpa or horseman SWD, but needing another expensive, moderately heavy component (the imagetank or whatever its called) to power the back is a bummer.   This is probably my #1 complaint with the H3d back, and what will eventually make me switch.

I don't consider it to be an especially rugged camera, and it certainly will not stand up to abuse, or at least the kind of abuse the wilderness can spring on you.  Then again, I broke a 1Ds, and haven't broken this, so its just kind of luck.  I've also had issues shooting in the winter with the camera locking up and not functioning correctly under -10 Celsius.  

The 28mm is absolutely fantastic.  I've never shot with a digital camera & the large format lens lines, but its really as good as I could ask for.  Other lenses I have in the series (80, 210 & 1.7x) also have been outstanding.

As an all around platform, one day shooting architecture, another day shooting landscape, then doing art copy/reproduction the next, it absolutely shines.  It may not be the absolute best in any one endeavor, but it really is flexible.

Beautiful work!
-Nick
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: rhsu on June 08, 2008, 08:32:28 am
I went through this exercise and opted for the H3DII-39mp kit (DSLR).  ONLY with 20/20 hindsight, the back couldn't be used with my Cambo or any other wide-angle view camera because it lacks the power source to run the digital back.  An imagebank II isn't quite the solution due to the cost.  I've just discovered a firewire power source at a fraction of the cost (US$99).   However, if you opt for the 39mp that has its own power source (Sony battery) that clips to the bottom of the back, then you have the future options with view camera wide angle lenses (and the images are a killer)!  Unfortunately, the latter has no package deal compare to the kit!

The 31mp back I believe has "micro lenses", similar to 35mm DSLR.  So in wide-angle application, it may/will cause interesting colour behaviour as lights are coming in at greater angle (albeit the major downfall with 35mm DSLR wide angle application).

Phase is also good, but correctly so that you are locked out of the HC 28mm lens.  Until Hasselblad waits up to themselves that photographers also like to use the backs with view cameras wide-angle photography, Phase/Leaf will clean up in this niche market.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Jeff74400 on June 08, 2008, 10:21:59 am
Quote
Ok, then perhaps you need to use the same digital back on two platforms. You can still use a Cambo or Alpa for the best possible wide performance, then add a medium format SLR for the normal to telephoto lenses

What are you shooting with 300mm? Still landscape?


Yes landscape or climbing  from 28mm to 300mm (in MF) (same as what  I am doing with 35mm gear from 20mm to 200mm).
But I am most of the time in high altitude environment, with cold and sometime windy/snowy wheather so I need a versatile and strong system.
My Canon 1DsIII is very good but I need very good files for big enlargment; up to 150 cm wide sometime.
Sometime I stitch 4 or 5 pictures to get a large file but it is not every time possible (photography from a helicopter for example).
So if the 39mp Hasselblad as some troubles in very cold conditions, what about a Mamiya AFD II + P45 + Mamiya 28mm (and some other lens) combination ?
My Webpage (http://www.lumieresdaltitude.com)
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: eronald on June 08, 2008, 12:15:34 pm
Quote
Yes landscape or climbing  from 28mm to 300mm (in MF) (same as what  I am doing with 35mm gear from 20mm to 200mm).
But I am most of the time in high altitude environment, with cold and sometime windy/snowy wheather so I need a versatile and strong system.
My Canon 1DsIII is very good but I need very good files for big enlargment; up to 150 cm wide sometime.
Sometime I stitch 4 or 5 pictures to get a large file but it is not every time possible (photography from a helicopter for example).
So if the 39mp Hasselblad as some troubles in very cold conditions, what about a Mamiya AFD II + P45 + Mamiya 28mm (and some other lens) combination ?
My Webpage (http://www.lumieresdaltitude.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200422\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Mamiya is known as a "value" camera - it is not known for extreme sharpness however, the Phase backs will I believe have no problems working in the cold. Alpa TC and Schneider is tough and precise but you have no reflex view.

Frankly if extreme versatility and robustness is what you want nothing can beat the Canon. Many Canon guys have the Zeiss Distagon 21mm lens which outresolves any wide  made by Canon, and there are also some interesting Leica lenses which can be adapted to Canon.

There's a reason why Canon and Nikon have been so successful, and that's robustness and versatility - I think in any craft one needs to be able to choose the tool for a job, and in your case MF is going to be a liability out in the field.

Edmund
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: jecxz on June 08, 2008, 01:06:37 pm
Quote
Yes landscape or climbing  from 28mm to 300mm (in MF) (same as what  I am doing with 35mm gear from 20mm to 200mm).
But I am most of the time in high altitude environment, with cold and sometime windy/snowy wheather so I need a versatile and strong system.
My Canon 1DsIII is very good but I need very good files for big enlargment; up to 150 cm wide sometime.
Sometime I stitch 4 or 5 pictures to get a large file but it is not every time possible (photography from a helicopter for example).
So if the 39mp Hasselblad as some troubles in very cold conditions, what about a Mamiya AFD II + P45 + Mamiya 28mm (and some other lens) combination ?
My Webpage (http://www.lumieresdaltitude.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200422\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jeff,

I have used my H3DII39 in 15F degrees, I just had to bring many extra batteries. I have used my H2 system (sames lenses, just film back) in as cold as -19F - only problem was my hands.

Remember also, right now the H3DII39 is limited to a max 32 second exposure. Since switching from Canon in 2005 to an H2 system (film), and recently to the H3DII39, I have not touched my Canon gear at all. Rent the systems and get a feel for them is the best advice. Good luck.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: abiggs on June 08, 2008, 02:41:27 pm
If cold weather is your requirement, I would definitely stay away from Leaf. I have had a few friends use them in cold landscape situations, and both stopped working around 32F or slightly above. Apparently the feedback from Leaf was that they don't guarantee the unit working beneath something like 40F.

I have used a Phase One back in very very cold conditions, like 20F, and it worked like a charm. Heck, even the battery worked for a few hours.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Mitchell Baum on June 08, 2008, 02:52:10 pm
Does anyone have experience with Sinar in cold conditions?

Thanks,

Mitchell
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: snickgrr on June 08, 2008, 02:54:46 pm
The Leaf specs say operating range down to 32F.

 I've personally shot with mine at about 13F or so and it worked great.  And this wasn't a come out of a warm environment and shoot in the cold for a few minutes but an extended backpacking trip into the mountains mostly in the 11,000' to 13,000' range. Battery life was a problem.  After every shot I would take off the battery and keep it in a pocket next to my body.  Slept with them in the sleeping bag at night.

I'm not recommending it for that type of work but citing one personal experience.

Quote
If cold weather is your requirement, I would definitely stay away from Leaf. I have had a few friends use them in cold landscape situations, and both stopped working around 32F or slightly above. Apparently the feedback from Leaf was that they don't guarantee the unit working beneath something like 40F.

I have used a Phase One back in very very cold conditions, like 20F, and it worked like a charm. Heck, even the battery worked for a few hours.
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Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Graham Mitchell on June 08, 2008, 04:09:42 pm
Quote
Does anyone have experience with Sinar in cold conditions?

Thanks,

Mitchell
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200449\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've used mine in -15'C (5'F) without any problems.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: yaya on June 08, 2008, 04:13:48 pm
Quote
If cold weather is your requirement, I would definitely stay away from Leaf. I have had a few friends use them in cold landscape situations, and both stopped working around 32F or slightly above. Apparently the feedback from Leaf was that they don't guarantee the unit working beneath something like 40F.

The spec of many (most?) electronic devices will state 32F (0ºc) as the lower operation limit, usually due to one or some of the components being limited by its manufacturer.

Optimum working temperature for most if not all Li-ion, NiCad and NiMh batteries is 15-20 Cº

I worked with Aptus (and previously Valeo) backs at 5F to 120F with no issues. battery drainage in cold weather is not unusual with digital cameras.

No I haven't tried liquid Nitrogen nor Pizza baking. I think the sticker on most batteries says "do not expose to high temperature" or something like that, no?

Yair
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Mitchell Baum on June 08, 2008, 04:32:56 pm
Thanks Graham.

Glad to hear it. I've used my M8 in -5 F with 25 knots wind. No problem with the camera. Fingers another matter.

Best,

Mitchell
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: thsinar on June 09, 2008, 12:35:50 am
I have to second Yair's words below.

I have used "my" various Sinarbacks as well below -10°C (14F): believe me, you worry first about your fingers and your batteries, before having to deal with the back not working under such conditions.

Thierry

Quote
The spec of many (most?) electronic devices will state 32F (0ºc) as the lower operation limit, usually due to one or some of the components being limited by its manufacturer.

Yair
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Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: MarkKay on June 09, 2008, 01:46:47 am
I used my Leaf in mid winter in the Colorado rockies.  I was outside the vehicle for probably  35 or 40 minutes. It was extremely cold.  Cold enough my BH-55 tripod head froze.  The back worked flawlessly

Quote
If cold weather is your requirement, I would definitely stay away from Leaf. I have had a few friends use them in cold landscape situations, and both stopped working around 32F or slightly above. Apparently the feedback from Leaf was that they don't guarantee the unit working beneath something like 40F.

I have used a Phase One back in very very cold conditions, like 20F, and it worked like a charm. Heck, even the battery worked for a few hours.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200445\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: juicy on June 09, 2008, 08:13:39 pm
Fantastic images Jeff!

The goulotte Perroux on Tacul looks pretty thin.

Cheers,
J
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: bradleygibson on June 10, 2008, 01:20:22 am
Quote
Does anyone have experience with Sinar in cold conditions?

Thanks,

Mitchell
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200449\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Photo © Derek Jensen

Yours truly, two days ago on Mount Rainier in Washington.  Photo taken at 2619m, with a Hasselblad H2 and a Sinar eMotion75LV.  Over the duration of the hike I took about 135 shots.  (Only the last 100-200m of climbing were in sunshine, everything else was, well, like this:

Total of 10 hours in the elements, battery still registered 'full' when we got back to the cars.

-Brad
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: bradleygibson on June 10, 2008, 01:28:06 am
Quote
Does anyone have experience with Sinar in cold conditions?

Thanks,

Mitchell
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200449\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yours truly, two days ago on Mount Rainier in Washington, USA.


Best regards,
-Brad
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Gigi on June 10, 2008, 05:07:43 am
Quote
Yours truly, two days ago on Mount Rainier in Washington, USA.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200681\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for the shots.  I remember doing that hike some years ago. And yes, its brutal. Congrats on the hike and the camera. Makes shooting models in Australia look like vacation time.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: bradleygibson on June 10, 2008, 10:09:07 am
Hmmm...  A little "vacation time" sounds really nice, actually!!    

Quote
Thanks for the shots.  I remember doing that hike some years ago. And yes, its brutal. Congrats on the hike and the camera. Makes shooting models in Australia look like vacation time.
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Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Ignatz_Mouse on June 10, 2008, 11:06:13 am
Quote
Frankly if extreme versatility and robustness is what you want nothing can beat the Canon. Many Canon guys have the Zeiss Distagon 21mm lens which outresolves any wide  made by Canon, and there are also some interesting Leica lenses which can be adapted to Canon.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200436\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If he really wants to go wide the problem here with the Leica glass is that lenses like the Super-Elmarit-R 15 or the Elmarit-R 19 won't work with the 1DsMkIII due to mirror clearance issues.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: clawery on June 10, 2008, 12:21:12 pm
Take a look at Phase One's web site. They have several videos of just how rugged their backs are. In one the place it in dry ice and then pull it out, place a battery in it..and then start it up with no problems.  www.phaseone.com

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: James R Russell on June 10, 2008, 12:31:50 pm
Quote
Take a look at Phase One's web site. They have several videos of just how rugged their backs are. In one the place it in dry ice and then pull it out, place a battery in it..and then start it up with no problems.  www.phaseone.com

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
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I hate to say it but that video is funny.  I keep waiting for one of the SNL regulars to finish the video by sticking their tounge on the back and getting it stuck.

My favorite Phase video is the  one where the photographer leaves the back on the top of his car and drives off, letting the back rumble down the street.

That's the guy I'm going to hire for my next shoot.  

Really next time Phase should be a little more realistic about what really goes on in a shoot.  Hire you know who, the famous equipment thrower and let her toss it across the room while the assistants try to reassemble the parts.

That's realism at it's finest.



JR
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Mitchell Baum on June 10, 2008, 01:34:55 pm
Thanks Bradley,

That's impressive and reassuring. I may use mine, if I get it, as cold, but probably not as high.

I really like the second shot.

Best,

Mitchell
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: lance_schad on June 10, 2008, 02:48:49 pm
For extended cold weather operations the Phase One works very well as Chris mentioned and JR made the funny comment about SNL they do hold up to extremes.

I have found that on the Mamiya 645AFDxxx body you can actually purchase a battery pack that has an extension cable that plugs into the bottom of the body allowing you to keep the batteries inside your coat and heated for extended use.

Also a few years ago PhaseOne had their "portable solution" prior to the P-series , where they had a belt that held a sony vaio and two batteries with an inline 1394 connector. Again this could be worn under your coat and hold two batteries to power your P-series back . This part is discontinued but I still think I may have one laying around somewhere in my closet if anyone is interested.

Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
305-394-3196 cell | 305-534-5702 office
Capture Integration  (http://www.captureintegration.com)
My Blog (http://www.captureintegration.com/category/lance/)
lance@captureintegration.com
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: mtomalty on June 10, 2008, 02:59:24 pm
Quote
If he really wants to go wide the problem here with the Leica glass is that lenses like the Super-Elmarit-R 15 or the Elmarit-R 19 won't work with the 1DsMkIII due to mirror clearance issues.


Is the 1Ds3 different that the 1Ds2 with respect to mirror clearances?

I know,for certain,that the 19mm can function with a slight modification (voiding warranty!!)
and I'm pretty sure I've seen threads that illustrate that the 15mm is workable,as well


Mark
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: clawery on June 10, 2008, 08:19:14 pm
Quote
Take a look at Phase One's web site. They have several videos of just how rugged their backs are. In one the place it in dry ice and then pull it out, place a battery in it..and then start it up with no problems.  www.phaseone.com

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
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Sorry that I didn't have the proper link earlier, but I was on my iPhone.  Here is the link to Phase One's Extreme videos:

[a href=\"http://phaseone.com/Content/p1digitalbacks/Pplusseries/Extreme.aspx]http://phaseone.com/Content/p1digitalbacks...es/Extreme.aspx[/url]


Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration Atlanta / Miami
(404)234-5195
www.captureintegratinon.com
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: James R Russell on June 10, 2008, 09:05:53 pm
Quote
Sorry that I didn't have the proper link earlier, but I was on my iPhone.  Here is the link to Phase One's Extreme videos:

http://phaseone.com/Content/p1digitalbacks...es/Extreme.aspx (http://phaseone.com/Content/p1digitalbacks/Pplusseries/Extreme.aspx)
Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration Atlanta / Miami
(404)234-5195
www.captureintegratinon.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200831\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


They gotta leave the humor to the pros.  They're about 4,000 out of work writers in LA that would love this gig.

BTW:  Are these backs sold as refurbished, or demo? (insert a smiley face here)

JR
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Jeff74400 on June 11, 2008, 03:27:42 am
Quote
The Mamiya is known as a "value" camera - it is not known for extreme sharpness however, the Phase backs will I believe have no problems working in the cold. Alpa TC and Schneider is tough and precise but you have no reflex view.

Frankly if extreme versatility and robustness is what you want nothing can beat the Canon. Many Canon guys have the Zeiss Distagon 21mm lens which outresolves any wide made by Canon, and there are also some interesting Leica lenses which can be adapted to Canon.

There's a reason why Canon and Nikon have been so successful, and that's robustness and versatility - I think in any craft one needs to be able to choose the tool for a job, and in your case MF is going to be a liability out in the field.

Edmund


Thank's all for your advise, it very helpfull.
I have and love the Distagon 21mm (and contax/Zeiss 28mm), but would like to have even more image quality for big prints (I am working with two gallery, here in Chamonix)
Yes, I am working most of the time in high altitude but I am mountain guide so I can walk and carry some stuff in the back country without to many troubles.
So I am going to test the Mamiya AFD II+ P45 and the Hassy H3D39Mpix and look if one of this option is worth the extra cost and weight compare to the Canon 1DsIII.
Best regard's
JeffMy Webpage (http://www.lumieresdaltitude.com)
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: TechTalk on June 11, 2008, 04:00:32 am
Quote
Thank's all for your advise, it very helpfull.
I have and love the Distagon 21mm (and contax/Zeiss 28mm), but would like to have even more image quality for big prints (I am working with two gallery, here in Chamonix)
Yes, I am working most of the time in high altitude but I am mountain guide so I can walk and carry some stuff in the back country without to many troubles.
So I am going to test the Mamiya AFD II+ P45 and the Hassy H3D39Mpix and look if one of this option is worth the extra cost and weight compare to the Canon 1DsIII.
Best regard's
JeffMy Webpage (http://www.lumieresdaltitude.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200874\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The images on your website are stunning! Best wishes to you in your pursuit.

Two quick notes on the Hasselblad system. 1) The Hasselblad 28mm accepts the same 95mm filters used on some of the other "H" lenses (35mm & zoom) in case you wish to use a polarizer or protective UV filter. The Mamiya 28mm has no filter thread. 2) I would recommend that you take a look at the Image Bank II option. It is very light and compact and provides 100GB of storage reducing or eliminating the need to change CF cards. It also provides power to the back, when attached via the FireWire cable, and I expect could be kept inside a coat pocket with the cable running to the back. I haven't tried this and would be curious to know if you find it a practical solution or not.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: jecxz on June 11, 2008, 05:05:45 am
Quote
Thank's all for your advise, it very helpfull.
I have and love the Distagon 21mm (and contax/Zeiss 28mm), but would like to have even more image quality for big prints (I am working with two gallery, here in Chamonix)
Yes, I am working most of the time in high altitude but I am mountain guide so I can walk and carry some stuff in the back country without to many troubles.
So I am going to test the Mamiya AFD II+ P45 and the Hassy H3D39Mpix and look if one of this option is worth the extra cost and weight compare to the Canon 1DsIII.
Best regard's
JeffMy Webpage (http://www.lumieresdaltitude.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200874\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Jeff, test drive the H3DII39, not the H3D39 - the II has the 3" display and is the newer model (no internal fan, it is heat sink cooled, and has other features). Best of luck.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: TechTalk on June 11, 2008, 06:20:39 am
The GPS module is also available for Hasselblad "H" series now. Might be of interest to you.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Jeff74400 on June 13, 2008, 02:26:48 am
Thank's again for all your advises.
I will meet a dealer this afternoon to test the p25 et p45+ solution against my 1DsIII and decide if the difference is worth the investisment
One question more; witch 28mm, Mamiya ou Hasselblad give the best IQ ?
Best regard's
Jeff  My Webpage (http://lumieresdaltitude.com)
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Harold Clark on June 13, 2008, 04:41:27 pm
Quote
Thank's again for all your advises.
I will meet a dealer this afternoon to test the p25 et p45+ solution against my 1DsIII and decide if the difference is worth the investisment
One question more; witch 28mm, Mamiya ou Hasselblad give the best IQ ?
Best regard's
Jeff  My Webpage (http://lumieresdaltitude.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201301\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Please let us know what you decide after your tests.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Jeff74400 on June 15, 2008, 09:16:43 am
Quote
Please let us know what you decide after your tests.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=201431\")
Hi,
I have "tested" a Mamiya 645AFDIII + P25 + new 28mm via My Canon 1DsIII with 21mm Zeiss Distagon and a Hassy H2 + P45+ and 80 mm via my Canon  with a 50 mm Macro.
P25 is very good but no so much difference to justify the investisment (But IQ is still a little bit better)
P45+, just awesome... and perfect for what I am looking for (landscape).
So I have ordered a P45 (the P45+ is out of my budjet...) and a MamiyaAFDII.
I am just a little bit disapointed by the new Mamiya 28mm, lots of ac and corner softness problem....
Best regard's and thank's for your help
Jeff
[a href=\"http://www.lumieresdaltitude.com]My Webpage[/url]
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: Harold Clark on June 15, 2008, 09:59:55 pm
Quote
Hi,
I have "tested" a Mamiya 645AFDIII + P25 + new 28mm via My Canon 1DsIII with 21mm Zeiss Distagon and a Hassy H2 + P45+ and 80 mm via my Canon  with a 50 mm Macro.
P25 is very good but no so much difference to justify the investisment (But IQ is still a little bit better)
P45+, just awesome... and perfect for what I am looking for (landscape).
So I have ordered a P45 (the P45+ is out of my budjet...) and a MamiyaAFDII.
I am just a little bit disapointed by the new Mamiya 28mm, lots of ac and corner softness problem....
Best regard's and thank's for your help
Jeff
My Webpage (http://www.lumieresdaltitude.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201702\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for the info.
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: mtomalty on June 16, 2008, 11:51:48 am
Quote
I am just a little bit disapointed by the new Mamiya 28mm, lots of ac and corner softness problem....


I think you will find the same,or similar, corner softness on the H 28, as well
but when files are processed through Flexcolor or Phocus you will have excellent software
correction of CA to the point you won't know it exists.
The other advantage of the H28,if it is of importance to you,is that the H28 has front
threads and can accept a polarizer,and other filters of course

Did you process your P45 files through the most current version of CaptureOne?
I was under the impression that Mamiya lenses had access to CA controls not previously
available to CapOne/Phase users

Mark
Title: What 39 Mp back to choose ?
Post by: jecxz on June 16, 2008, 02:07:24 pm
Quote
I think you will find the same,or similar, corner softness on the H 28, as well
but when files are processed through Flexcolor or Phocus you will have excellent software
correction of CA to the point you won't know it exists.
The other advantage of the H28,if it is of importance to you,is that the H28 has front
threads and can accept a polarizer,and other filters of course

Did you process your P45 files through the most current version of CaptureOne?
I was under the impression that Mamiya lenses had access to CA controls not previously
available to CapOne/Phase users

Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201907\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hmmm, I will have to check again, but I generally turn off DAC and I do not see the softness you mention in the corners. Are you talking about vignetting? I really like the quality of the 28mm from corner to corner, I do not see softness. Be well.