Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: mcfoto on May 24, 2008, 12:01:52 am

Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: mcfoto on May 24, 2008, 12:01:52 am
Hi
This just happened in Sydney Australia & depending on the outcome this could affect photographers in Australia. Bill Henson is one of Australias best Art Photographers & is internationally known. He is represented by one of the best galleries in Sydney & Australia for that matter.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-fin...1183097197.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-finds-support-over-photos/2008/05/23/1211183097197.html)
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/internati...095915&srvc=rss (http://www.bostonherald.com/news/international/asia_pacific/view.bg?articleid=1095915&srvc=rss)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/24/2254455.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/24/2254455.htm)

I see this story very similar to what happened to Jock Sturges in 1990 & the charges were dropped.

http://www.thefileroom.org/html/213.html (http://www.thefileroom.org/html/213.html)



Denis
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Murray Fredericks on May 24, 2008, 12:21:12 am
Quote
Hi
This just happened in Sydney Australia & depending on the outcome this could affect photographers in Australia. Bill Henson is one of Australias best Art Photographers & is internationally known. He is represented by one of the best galleries in Sydney & Australia for that matter.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-fin...1183097197.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-finds-support-over-photos/2008/05/23/1211183097197.html)

Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197655\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Denis,

was just about to post this myself...

Also, this subject matter of his has been the same for 20 years or more. 3 years ago he had a major retrospective  at the Art Gallery of NSW, same/similar material and not 1 complaint.

It's as if the goal posts have been moved on him..

Murray
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: mcfoto on May 24, 2008, 01:06:09 am
Quote
Denis,

was just about to post this myself...

Also, this subject matter of his has been the same for 20 years or more. 3 years ago he had a major retrospective  at the Art Gallery of NSW, same/similar material and not 1 complaint.

It's as if the goal posts have been moved on him..

Murray
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=197659\")

Hi Murray
According to this poll which is not completed, I think the goal posts have been moved.  Even the Prime Minister described the works as "revolting" and devoid of artistic merit. That is coming from the leader of Australia. This years, Sydney fashion week banned models under the age of 16 & even cancelled the booking of a young Polish model that is a major international success. I remember when Brook Shields ( age 14 ) was on the cover & inside fashion spread for American Vogue (1980) shot by Richard Avedon.

[a href=\"http://www.smh.com.au/polls/national/results.html]http://www.smh.com.au/polls/national/results.html[/url]
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Business/2008...ng_models/3656/ (http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Business/2008/04/12/australian_fashion_week_bans_young_models/3656/)
Denis
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Murray Fredericks on May 24, 2008, 01:14:31 am
Here's a good bit of analysis by Australia's best Art Critic:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/its-a-triu...1183097200.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/its-a-triumph-of-the-philistines/2008/05/23/1211183097200.html)

It's a 'victim' syndrome, it sells news papers and attempts to somehow shift 'responsibility' for such a complex issue onto an artist producing great work...

Murray
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Murray Fredericks on May 24, 2008, 01:26:23 am
AND,

as with all attempts to ban films(Ken Park), books (Henry Miller), TV series (Underbelly), it makes often 'niche' work mainstream providing a publicity bonanza that results in the work being viewed by millions.

As the mass media martyrs Bill Henson his work becomes more valuable and his place in art history
 more prominent.

Murray
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: mcfoto on May 24, 2008, 01:53:33 am
Quote
AND,

as with all attempts to ban films(Ken Park), books (Henry Miller), TV series (Underbelly), it makes often 'niche' work mainstream providing a publicity bonanza that results in the work being viewed by millions.

As the mass media martyrs Bill Henson his work becomes more valuable and his place in art history
 more prominent.

Murray
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197667\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi
That is true & the value of his work will increase. However the real issue here is the effect on photographers & photographs in Australia. If Bill Henson is charged, then what??????? This is a highly charged subject. There are already issues of photography at parks & beaches by some councils in Australia. This being to protect children. Eugene Smith took that great photograph "walk into paradise" of the boy & girl. Are we as a society going to arrest & charge a photographer for taking a photograph like that today. From talking to fellow professional photographers in Australia there is that fear now. This case has even greater implications.............

Denis
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Murray Fredericks on May 24, 2008, 02:05:53 am
Quote
That is true & the value of his work will increase. However the real issue here is the effect on photographers & photographs in Australia.


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197669\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Absolutely, the issue has much wider implications to photographers and to society/culture as a whole...it's also a reflection of complex attitudes out there right now...

I was just pointing out the irony...

Murray
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Dustbak on May 24, 2008, 03:06:23 am
It is in the news over here as well. Most photographers I know find it way exaggerated and a reaction stemming from false and hypocrytic decency.

"The photographs of naked children comprised about a third of the exhibition. Most of the shots were taken from the waist up, though the genitals of the female model are visible in one image."

Waist up, so most were bare chested (the ones that showed nudity). What is the harm in that, since when is the human body something revolting?

"Whatever the artistic view of the merits of that sort of stuff - frankly, I don't think there are any - just allow kids to be kids."

Excuse me? My kids love being naked and free, to play around without any thoughts about perversity like some adults apparently seem to have. I agree kids should be allowed to be kids and not be confronted with how the minds of some adults work.

It seems that within the foreseeable future photography of children in general will be totally forbidden in some places.

We also had another issue over here where a couple of paintings showing the appearance of breasts were banned from exposition because a couple of community members expressed the human/female nudity was insulting to them.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Murray Fredericks on May 24, 2008, 03:19:54 am
These attitudes are already flowing into other restrictions....

At many child care centres now in Sydney, we are not able to photograph our children (that's everyone, nothing to do with being professional). The no photograph policy means no photos of my kids singing in their first play, xmas performances etc...

False decency - that's what it is..who does that protect?

Murray
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Dustbak on May 24, 2008, 03:29:37 am
I don't know what it will protect but I do know that it hurts many. Over here you can still photograph children though at the price of feeling like a criminal. I photograph my children at school events. Most people know I work as a photographer for a living so I get a bit more acceptance but still you feel like you are being watched as if you are a pervert. That is... until they see the results and most people want a print.

Like everybody else I am extremely vigilant against child abuse but the way we are acting now in most 'civilised' countries to protect children is ridiculous, pointless and doesn't protect anything. The only thing that happens is it adds to the aggravation, suspicion towards people that have no harmful intent and leaves us with bad tastes in our mouths instead of joyful memories.

Not sure what we can do about this attitude but it is for sure that we all should do something to try to turn this tide.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: marc gerritsen on May 24, 2008, 03:45:14 am
Having lived both in the US and Australia, but raised in Europe
I can really see the that the Anglo society at large has a strange way dealing with
nakedness; in the narrow mind, nakedness equates to sex and therefor
one has to cover up. As the anglo societies are getting more and more conservative
I see that they regress to more and more victorian attitudes.
Child pornography is titilations and I cannot imagine that anybody that is interested in it
would walk into the Oxley gallery and get off on pictures of sincere looking adolescents, while they easily could stay at home surfing the net for that garbage.
I deplore what I see is happening in this case and hope BH will get through this unscathed.
m*
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: rethmeier on May 24, 2008, 07:24:48 am
I've been following the subject and apparently the law says,if the image was made with artistic
purposes in mind,no prosecution can be made.

Yes, I do believe our western society thrives on hypocrisy.

However, I don't have any children or 12 year old daughters for that matter.

I did see Bills show a couple of years ago and similar images were exhibited.


N.B Imagine the value of those images that were taken away?

Willem.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: amsp on May 24, 2008, 07:45:42 am
It's a sad day for artists everywhere. These minions of morality make me sick to my stomach. They should take their warped sense of decency and crawl back to the dark ages where they belong.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: froesner on May 24, 2008, 09:17:56 am
Quote
It's a sad day for artists everywhere. These minions of morality make me sick to my stomach. They should take their warped sense of decency and crawl back to the dark ages where they belong.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197694\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Giving simple and one-dimensional answers to questions in a complex world is something people have used at all times to get the support of those who feel mistreated.

If you look at what is happening from an elevated standpoint, one can discover this happening not only where a majority of people is extremely poor and thus has no access to education - but also in the so-called developed countries.

The first victims are free press and the arts
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Leonardo Barreto on May 24, 2008, 01:07:01 pm
Yes, yes, I have not seen more than one image, but on the other side. Why do we need to have under age girls posing naked in the first place. The artist knows that it is not the same to show a portrait of a child with a shirt on as opposed to on the nude, so lets not pretend that there is no difference at all.

I see my 6 year old son naked all the time but don't want to take photos of him and blow them for a gallery show, would you do that with your 14 year old daughters as photographers?
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: csp on May 24, 2008, 01:22:27 pm
Quote
Yes, yes, I have not seen more than one image, but on the other side. Why do we need to have under age girls posing naked in the first place. The artist knows that it is not the same to show a portrait of a child with a shirt on as opposed to on the nude, so lets not pretend that there is no difference at all.

I see my 6 year old son naked all the time but don't want to take photos of him and blow them for a gallery show, would you do that with your 14 year old daughters as photographers?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197732\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

with this logic we would  have to  close most of our history art museums and churches here in europe immediately.  great times.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Dustbak on May 24, 2008, 01:34:07 pm
Quote
Yes, yes, I have not seen more than one image, but on the other side. Why do we need to have under age girls posing naked in the first place. The artist knows that it is not the same to show a portrait of a child with a shirt on as opposed to on the nude, so lets not pretend that there is no difference at all.

I see my 6 year old son naked all the time but don't want to take photos of him and blow them for a gallery show, would you do that with your 14 year old daughters as photographers?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197732\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Extremely short sighted vision IMO. Maybe I would not do that, maybe you wouldn't but it doesn't make everybody else that would criminals immediately now would it?

I know people that do photograph their daughter nude from the waist-up. Are they criminals immediately?

Sure there is a difference showing people (children as well) nude (which definition appears to be extremely flexible as well) or clothed (or even in different clothes), what is your point? You can only photograph it when you are ignorant enough not to know the difference?

As someone said, with that kind of mindset we would have a lot less art in the world and not only in Europe. I remember having seen quite a number of Chinese (and other oriental) art drawings with children in much more nude settings than those currently being discussed. Most of those artists have passed away hundreds or even thousands of years so it might be difficult to arrest those I guess.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: ddk on May 24, 2008, 02:17:21 pm
Quote
Yes, yes, I have not seen more than one image, but on the other side. Why do we need to have under age girls posing naked in the first place. The artist knows that it is not the same to show a portrait of a child with a shirt on as opposed to on the nude, so lets not pretend that there is no difference at all.

I see my 6 year old son naked all the time but don't want to take photos of him and blow them for a gallery show, would you do that with your 14 year old daughters as photographers?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197732\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Honestly, I would have loved BH to someday photograph my family including our young daughter, I'm sorry to say that you've missed the point and beauty of his art.

david
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: amsp on May 24, 2008, 02:44:07 pm
Quote
Yes, yes, I have not seen more than one image, but on the other side. Why do we need to have under age girls posing naked in the first place. The artist knows that it is not the same to show a portrait of a child with a shirt on as opposed to on the nude, so lets not pretend that there is no difference at all.

I see my 6 year old son naked all the time but don't want to take photos of him and blow them for a gallery show, would you do that with your 14 year old daughters as photographers?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197732\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Personally I think the human body is the most natural thing in the world. As long as the context is non-sexual I see nothing offensive in nudity, no matter the age. For example Sally Mann's photos of her children are incredibly beautiful and as far from offensive as you can get IMO.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Ignatz_Mouse on May 24, 2008, 02:45:25 pm
Quote
Yes, yes, I have not seen more than one image, but on the other side. Why do we need to have under age girls posing naked in the first place. The artist knows that it is not the same to show a portrait of a child with a shirt on as opposed to on the nude, so lets not pretend that there is no difference at all.

I see my 6 year old son naked all the time but don't want to take photos of him and blow them for a gallery show, would you do that with your 14 year old daughters as photographers?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197732\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Take a look at Sally Mann photographies of her own sons and daughters, please... By the way, take a look at some Caravaggio's paintings...
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: canmiya on May 24, 2008, 03:06:04 pm
Quote
Take a look at Sally Mann photographies of her own sons and daughters, please... By the way, take a look at some Caravaggio's paintings...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197753\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
interesting point! funny how people seem to forget about the ages of models in some of the most coveted works of art that hang in many a museum.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: froesner on May 24, 2008, 03:25:46 pm
Quote
Personally I think the human body is the most natural thing in the world. As long as the context is non-sexual I see nothing offensive in nudity, no matter the age.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197751\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Absolutely amsp. But "nudity" triggers the reflexes of those who feel morally superior to counter-balance for their lack of self confidence and feeling of being mistreated. "Context" is by far to complex to look at
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: tom_l on May 24, 2008, 03:32:20 pm
Photography and Art are perceived differently at different moments in history. They are also perceived differently by us LL forum members, depending on where we come from, and what our background is.
I remember this album cover from a famous german hard rock band (from the 70's or 80's) my older brother used to have. There was a naked girl/child on the cover. I can't remember questioning this kind of photography back then, but I can understand and accept that this image is perceived differently by others today.
Anybody bought Martin Parr's marvellous "History of the Photobook", where he also talks about a (very liberal 68th style) art/nude photography book that was accepted back then, but not today because of the explicit content that will be misunderstood 40 years later?
Personally, i always try to be on the photography's side, but I also try to understand the other side. But, as much as I welcome discussions about and around art/photography, closing an exhibition is not the way to go. Some years ago, conservative "forces" veiled a public Nana sculpture by Niki de Saint-Phalle in my country because of the explicit curves of the sculptures. There a hundred of examples in other countries where some people try to decide what the public has to contemplate in museums/art galleries and what not.
Where does this stop?

Tom
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Sunesha on May 24, 2008, 03:58:27 pm
Interesting. I think it is about attitudes and mostly more about fear. Witchhunts always starts with fear.

In my town we have a naked child statue that is just angel like.

In Sweden, child pornography is judged by its intent. Photos off naked children playing around and for example a a brother and sister playing in bath tub isnt considered to be child pornography. It must have a sexual content. Art and family photos arnt pornography by swedish law. We had this witchhunt in the courts in sweden.

I guess if I bring my photo album from my childhood. I have a lot off photos off my little sister and me playing with a submarine naked in a bathtub it would be considered child pornography by some countries law. It isnt unusual photos. When grew children playing around naked in water was considered cute. Today many even if I would say Sweden is a very liberal and great country off freedom off expression and speech. Some swedish people will try to call this child pornography.

I wouldnt mind to show this photos to other which I have done off my little sister as children playing naked. After it shows the innocence off childhood before we start be burden off the sexual dogmas that come more and more the older you get.

I think it is all about fear, that some people with twisted sexual desire will find pleasure off looking off them. That scare people. I understand this. But I feel if we start censor in this direction we make society that make the human body as only a sexual object. We start objectify ourselves. We will end up unhealthy psychological relation to our human apperence. Start taboos.  

When we add shame to our own apperence as human body. Nobody would feel comfortable with this. This a cultural phenomena. Not a sexual phenomena. Our brains add the sexual tension and excitement to nakedness. If it isnt in sexual content, we just added more shame to feel this. We made nakeness just beeing about sexual content.

When we fear that even photos off naked humans add sexual tension. I ask myself is it wrong off the viewer or the artist/photographer if it is just clearly a naked body. I would dare say it is the wrong off viewer that cant see the human body as thing other than sexual object. Then I think it is scary that you make thoughts a crime. The intention isnt often about sexual arousal material. Is it crime that some people will view nakeness as pornography. When others just see a human. Not a sex object?

I am very confused. But I guess we Swedes have diffrent relation nakeness. It isnt something very strange in our country. I wouldn´t say that sweden is un-moral country. We have top ten rankings in all human rights. But some probaly think we are just perverts
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Sunesha on May 24, 2008, 04:16:27 pm
Our angels in our churches is often painted naked. Often naked angel children in our churches. I wouldnt deem this sexual content. The artist see the angels so pure that need off clothes arn´t needed.

A lot off art has nude content that dont take difference in age group or gender.  

Our art history and heritage is full off not political correct content. Even the churches I visited in europes. I seen many castles. The typical naked child angel isnt a very rare subject.

I just think about it. As at least in Sweden the Christian right wing that IMHO I am happy to be minority in our country is turning a blind eye to their own church art. But we had them rip people for showing a naked child.

I feel sorry for Australia. I hope as they are to my point off view a good country. That by police stopped this. It will bring this up to discussion. So it can set standards between art and pornography.

We had this struggle in Sweden. It was a fast one and now the police know how to interpret our laws. I am very sure Australia has sensible laws. I hope it will go well. As I think the freedom off art and expression is a important matter to all the world.

The only way to abandon strange views and agendas. Is to discuss them openly. Otherwise we end up with much distorted view off the world. I think you must always challenge your own prejudices.

Cheers and hope it will go well this in the end,
Daniel
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: PdF on May 24, 2008, 04:47:24 pm
Are the pictures of Bill Henson made with a MFDB ?

PdF
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: froesner on May 24, 2008, 05:09:09 pm
Quote
Are the pictures of Bill Henson made with a MFDB ?

PdF
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This subject matter (should) concern all photographers ... no matter what type of equipment they are using
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: sanvandur on May 24, 2008, 05:46:58 pm
Quote
This subject matter (should) concern all photographers ... no matter what type of equipment they are using
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197767\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


This discussion DOES concern all photographers, but do all photographers use MFDB?
I agree with what I guess PdF is implying. If this discussion is so important to all photographers, then it should be in "The Art of Photography" section of LL forum, not "Equipment & Techniques".
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: froesner on May 24, 2008, 05:59:39 pm
Quote
This discussion DOES concern all photographers, but do all photographers use MFDB?
I agree with what I guess PdF is implying. If this discussion is so important to all photographers, then it should be in "The Art of Photography" section of LL forum, not "Equipment & Techniques".
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197769\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

... and I though we Germans would be leading the worlds bureaucracy ranking  
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: sanvandur on May 24, 2008, 06:10:07 pm
Quote
... and I though we Germans would be leading the worlds bureaucracy ranking   
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197772\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


???
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Dustbak on May 24, 2008, 06:13:09 pm
Quote
???
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197776\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Quite obvious and really funny  (maybe you should be German or living close to them to understand )
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: mcfoto on May 24, 2008, 08:40:38 pm
http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/arson-thre...1183177189.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/arson-threat-farce/2008/05/24/1211183177189.html)
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: AndreNapier on May 24, 2008, 10:52:11 pm
an
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Ray on May 24, 2008, 11:55:44 pm
I'm reminded of what happened to Frank Meadows Suttcliffe during the late 19th century. Sutcliffe was one of the most renowned photographers in the world at the time (British of course). His most famous photo, Water Rats, a scene of a group of nude young boys frolicking in the water and messing around on small boats, was bought by the Prince of Wales.

However, the photo caused such an outrage from some quarters (this was Victorian England) Sutcliffe was excommunicated by the local clergy of Whitby, the small fishing village where Sutcliffe had his studio.

I won't show the photo here in case it causes similar outrage, but you can do an interent search to see how innocent the photo is. What is curious is that he was excommunicated for corrupting the opposite sex. Apparently the sight of young nude boys is supposed to be very disturbing to young girls.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Sean Reginald Knight on May 25, 2008, 01:50:40 pm
Hey, EPd. your tadpoles are stark nekkid. Maybe I should get the thought police to sic your ass.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: froesner on May 25, 2008, 03:30:02 pm
Quote
I want my kids to be worriers for morality and not soft lovers and artists.
It has to end, it can as well end with me.
http://AndreNapier.com (http://AndreNapier.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197808\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


No offence Andre, just a concern:

is it a coincidence that "worriers" sounds like "warriors" for morality? And who defines what moral we are talking about (and worry about or fight for)?

The history of my country has shown me, that any idea of how people should live must be continuously challenged - or it will turn into absolutism, fanatism and later fascism.

The challengers are free press and the arts among others. That is why we need to be extremely careful with what is allowed and what is not - even if sometimes someone feels hurt by what is called art.

Frank
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: AndreNapier on May 25, 2008, 04:05:44 pm
Quote
No offence Andre, just a concern:

is it a coincidence that "worriers" sounds like "warriors" for morality? And who defines what moral we are talking about (and worry about or fight for)?

The history of my country has shown me, that any idea of how people should live must be continuously challenged - or it will turn into absolutism, fanatism and later fascism.

The challengers are free press and the arts among others. That is why we need to be extremely careful with what is allowed and what is not - even if sometimes someone feels hurt by what is called art.

Frank
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197906\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I hope you got it that I was joking.
Andre
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: froesner on May 25, 2008, 04:47:22 pm
Quote
I hope you got it that I was joking.
Andre
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197913\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Joking? ... it is obviously proven again: Germans have no sense of humour.

To be honest, no I did not get it.    

Shame on me ...
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: mcfoto on May 25, 2008, 08:50:36 pm
update
http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/fury-at-ru...1653845928.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/fury-at-rudds-take-on-henson-work/2008/05/25/1211653845928.html)

http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-win...1653914186.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-wins-one-loses-two/2008/05/26/1211653914186.html)

http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/ive-no-reg...1653846181.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/ive-no-regrets-about-posing-for-picture/2008/05/25/1211653846181.html)http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-wins-one-loses-two/2008/05/26/1211653914186.html
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: SeanFS on May 25, 2008, 09:43:42 pm
Quote
I hope you got it that I was joking.
Andre
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197913\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I had to read it twice !

Great conversation guys  - when I saw it on the news I immediately thought of Sally Mann's work .
But she isn't lone in depicting naked children - Julia Margaret Cameron anyone ? I thought the little I had seen of the Bill Henson materiel had a similar feel in that metaphorical spiritual sense.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: amsp on May 26, 2008, 09:29:56 am
Quote
Margaret M. de Lange has some interesting (although very dark) work in which young girls in different states of nakedness appear. She is a Norwegian photographer, which means that she will likely not be bothered by the fear of pornography accusations when making her images. Fortunately. She is represented by Box Gallery in Brussels, the capital of Belgium: http://www.boxgalerie.be (http://www.boxgalerie.be) .

As some will know Belgium is the mother-of-all-pedophile-fearing-countries, but even there it is possible to have art featuring naked children on display. (It may be interesting to know that a well known leader of a child advocacy group there has recently been convicted for serious sexual abuse of children. This strengthens my belief that dogs bark loudest against what they fear most inside themselves.) Australia should be deeply ashamed for acting like this. I thought it was a modern country, where individual freedom of expression was one of the most sacred values.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198035\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well said. And thanks for mentioning Margaret, very beautiful images.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: jjj on May 26, 2008, 11:14:12 am
Quote
.....I remember this album cover from a famous german hard rock band (from the 70's or 80's) my older brother used to have. There was a naked girl/child on the cover. I can't remember questioning this kind of photography back then, but I can understand and accept that this image is perceived differently by others today. ......
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=197760\")
Nirvana - Nevermind?  -   [a href=\"http://www.eatskeet.com/2007/06/27/the-nirvana-nevermind-kid-just-turned-17/]Then+ Now[/url]
Led Zep  -  Led Zep (http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/page/classicrock?entry=the_absolutely_final_obligatory_daily)
And there's the hideous Blind Faith cover.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: froesner on May 26, 2008, 03:38:35 pm
Quote
Nirvana - Nevermind?  -   Then+ Now (http://www.eatskeet.com/2007/06/27/the-nirvana-nevermind-kid-just-turned-17/)
Led Zep  -  Led Zep (http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/page/classicrock?entry=the_absolutely_final_obligatory_daily)
And there's the hideous Blind Faith cover.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198060\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Scorpions?

[attachment=6793:attachment]
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: tom_l on May 26, 2008, 04:38:03 pm
Yes, it was the Scorpions cover i was talking about. Don't want to go too much offtopic, It ...well "illustrates" the problem, this kind of picture was accepted back then in the 70's/80's, it isn't anymore today. In the bginning, I was astonished to find people shocked nowadays, it gets regulary voted on on these bad album covers contest, but i find myself unconfortable with it now.
It's a cultural phenomen. After what I saw, Bill Henson aren't even going that far in the explicit (not at all in my opinion) So where is the limit, it just depends on our cultural background and of course the times we live in. It looks like a lot of photos cannot be taken any longer in these days.

Tom
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Sunesha on May 26, 2008, 06:25:41 pm
Thanks for the updates.

Artists and art has always been witch-hunted throu the history. I think it is about culture as others mention earlier in the threads. Also it always apply those scream the loudest is mostly heard the most.

Also I hate this trends as this just adds to the fear. If someone would say something positive off this kinda art. They will have live with the fear that some people will apply pedophile tag on them, or just pervert.

I understand the Australian politician and his statement. He was presented this material as child pornography. Who doesn't condemn the exploitation off children?

But I followed this debate, what fears me most is that now. Naked Child = Porn. At least to some.

That just pure sick. That attitude would just add on more on fear off nakedness. If all naked people are sexual content. Well it sure adds problems.

When I was a school boy. In my biological books we learnt how puberty added different shapes and other things to the body. We had naked pre-teens in that book. Will future publishers be afraid to show nakedness in books?

Censorship is the baddest you can do to a human mind. It will add taboos. Taboos leads unhealthy behaviors. People will fear nakedness.

Shall we in western world start cover up our women just off the fears off pedophiles, rapist. Muslims has tradition and religion for that custom. But maybe we shall just do it off fear against ourselves... As all this sexual predators are hunting our weak... Women and children...

Even the old greeks feared the woman nakedness. They where covered with veils in old greek democracy. Maybe women shall just show their features for their married men. If you push the fear off nakedness. After all we save our weak from the predators. As sexual content is about nakedness and not about the brain to some.

Well I am actually quite worked up..   I have worked with this a lot in Sweden. As even in Sweden some our people will try to say naked is porn.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: jjj on May 26, 2008, 07:09:32 pm
Quote
As even in Sweden some our people will try to say naked is porn.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198161\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If someone think all nakedness is porn, then that person is the one with the pornographic mind.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: jjj on May 26, 2008, 07:15:31 pm
Quote
And there's the hideous Blind Faith cover.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198060\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I should mention it's hideous because of the awful design, that now happens to also be offensive in another way. A friend had it and I remember being surprised it was ever used.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: STEVE K on May 26, 2008, 08:06:07 pm
This is such a tough subject. It's like the tallest mountain with a point at the top and straight down both sides. For those of you who feel strongly on the it's ok side where do you draw the line? Ask yourself what that line is, full frontal, legs spread, touching, the list goes on and on, and if you say there should be no limits at all, well I would suspect you have no children and don't understand as a parent what it's like to bring up a child in todays world, trying to teach some kind of moral responsibility, without to much censorship so you child doesn't grow up to sheltered. There's nothing like watching tv with your child and have to explain what a 4 hour erection is and why anyone would want one. viagre has done wonders for the television experience. These points can easily be pointed in the other direction of too much sensorship is horrible also. I for one am happy that I am not the one who has to decide these rules for society, although somebody has to, and yes whatever the answer someone is not going to like it. I have to hope that any rationale adult knows what is right or wrong in this situation, I like a lot of Henson,s work and there are a couple of his works I think are a little over the line.
Poor Leonardo posted a response earlier and he was called illogical,  flamed for what I thought was not a post that condemned anyone but he was condemned for his thoughts. Fear goes both ways, fear of being labled a social devient or  a rightous sob who thinks they're  better than everyone else. The times are a changing and unfortunately a few have caused the rest of us to suffer in both sides of this subject. When you can't let your child play in the front yard unattended because some idiot tried to abduct a child two streets over and they're still looking for the guy, what's a parent to do.  Censorship is not the answer and anything goes is not either. How about we all try for common sense. Although I truly believe this statement,"common sense is becoming more uncommon everyday".  . Have a great art day,  Steve
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: mcfoto on May 26, 2008, 10:46:37 pm
new update
http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-202...1654014314.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-2020-backlash/2008/05/27/1211654014314.html)
http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/new-henson...1653996527.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/new-henson-police-target/2008/05/27/1211653996527.html)
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: AndreNapier on May 26, 2008, 11:30:31 pm
Quote
If someone think all nakedness is porn, then that person is the one with the pornographic mind.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=198177\")

A man applied for a job in a school. As a part of checking process he was asked to take psychological evaluation.
The Phd showed him a drawing of two butterflies flying and asked him for interpretation.
The man responded that he sees two butterflies ready to make love.
Next the Phd showed him a drawing of two flowers next to each other.
The man responded that he sees two flowers engaged in a foreplay.
Finally the professor showed him a drawing of two clouds connected together.
The man screamed - Those two are already screwing.
The Phd turned to the applicant and said " I am sorry but you failed the test since you are obsessed with sex.
The man replied " I am obsessed with sex?   From what I can see you are the one holding pornography in your drawer.

I at 46 can live my the rest of my life without seeing child nudity, I can live without pornography in general, but I do not want to live without spray paint and spray paint got a total ban in Chicago because some idiots were using it to paint graffiti. Next it will be baseball bats as these are also use for violence. We will be going towards dark ages if we continue this knee jerk reactions based on the actions of elements in the society. There is nothing more natural than nudity. Child or adult    I do not care. It is just natural. If you see it differently than accept the fact about yourself that I am the one holding the pornography in my drawer.
[a href=\"http://AndreNapier.com]http://AndreNapier.com[/url]
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: thsinar on May 26, 2008, 11:40:09 pm
well said, Andre!

Thierry

Quote
A man applied for a job in a school. As a part of checking process he was asked to take psychological evaluation.
The Phd showed him a drawing of two butterflies flying and asked him for interpretation.
The man responded that he sees two butterflies ready to make love.
Next the Phd showed him a drawing of two flowers next to each other.
The man responded that he sees two flowers engaged in a foreplay.
Finally the professor showed him a drawing of two clouds connected together.
The man screamed - Those two are already screwing.
The Phd turned to the applicant and said " I am sorry but you failed the test since you are obsessed with sex.
The man replied " I am obsessed with sex?   From what I can see you are the one holding pornography in your drawer.

I at 46 can live my the rest of my life without seeing child nudity, I can live without pornography in general, but I do not want to live without spray paint and spray paint got a total ban in Chicago because some idiots were using it to paint graffiti. Next it will be baseball bats as these are also use for violence. We will be going towards dark ages if we continue this knee jerk reactions based on the actions of elements in the society. There is nothing more natural than nudity. Child or adult    I do not care. It is just natural. If you see it differently than accept the fact about yourself that I am the one holding the pornography in my drawer.
http://AndreNapier.com (http://AndreNapier.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198231\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Sunesha on May 27, 2008, 06:26:43 am
Quote
A man applied for a job in a school. As a part of checking process he was asked to take psychological evaluation.
The Phd showed him a drawing of two butterflies flying and asked him for interpretation.
The man responded that he sees two butterflies ready to make love.
Next the Phd showed him a drawing of two flowers next to each other.
The man responded that he sees two flowers engaged in a foreplay.
Finally the professor showed him a drawing of two clouds connected together.
The man screamed - Those two are already screwing.
The Phd turned to the applicant and said " I am sorry but you failed the test since you are obsessed with sex.
The man replied " I am obsessed with sex?   From what I can see you are the one holding pornography in your drawer.

I at 46 can live my the rest of my life without seeing child nudity, I can live without pornography in general, but I do not want to live without spray paint and spray paint got a total ban in Chicago because some idiots were using it to paint graffiti. Next it will be baseball bats as these are also use for violence. We will be going towards dark ages if we continue this knee jerk reactions based on the actions of elements in the society. There is nothing more natural than nudity. Child or adult    I do not care. It is just natural. If you see it differently than accept the fact about yourself that I am the one holding the pornography in my drawer.
http://AndreNapier.com (http://AndreNapier.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198231\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Execellent reflection
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: jjj on May 27, 2008, 09:51:46 am
Nice little parable Andre.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Murray Fredericks on May 28, 2008, 03:10:25 am
This Op-Ed piece just about sums up this whole thread!

It's well worth a read...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/elizabeth-farre...1654026711.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/elizabeth-farrelly/adults-overboard-in-the-frenzy-to-sniff-out-smut/2008/05/27/1211654026711.html)
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: amsp on May 28, 2008, 06:44:40 am
Quote
This Op-Ed piece just about sums up this whole thread!

It's well worth a read...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/elizabeth-farre...1654026711.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/elizabeth-farrelly/adults-overboard-in-the-frenzy-to-sniff-out-smut/2008/05/27/1211654026711.html)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198473\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Very good article. It's comforting to at least see that the local press has it's head screwed on right.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: mmurph on May 28, 2008, 01:01:34 pm
Decent discussion here, unlike many others online.

I am not a big supporter of older men taking pictures of female nudes (even legal age) and calling it "art." So much so, that in many places "fine art photography" = "female nude", which is BS.

But Henson's work is something else. Much more evocative, psychological, and creative. Important work in many ways.

I think those complaining underestimate the sexual knowledge of the teenagers posing, and of teenagers in general. There are many 14 and 15 year olds that are sexually active and know as much - or more -than many adults.  

In that context, I see this as partly a copllaboration with the models, to comment on their very real experiences.

Now when it come sto violent imagery, even on prime time television, I think we in the US have gone far overboard in allowing violence!  

I watched CSI - once - and the first 10 minutes was about people scraping body parts off a highway. Truly vulgar!.    

Best,
Michael
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: jjj on May 28, 2008, 01:18:58 pm
On that note, I've always thought it bizarre that things we are legally allowed to do, in fact need to do to survive genetically are the things that cause the most outrage if shown i.e. sex/human reproduction in particular, yet entertainment is filled by portrayals of things we are not even allowed to do. Violence, rape, murder, torture are all major parts of our normal entertainment on TV and in the cinemas.  Though it's also not unusual to see animals shagging on TV, so something seems a little screwed up. So to speak!
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Sunesha on May 28, 2008, 04:28:53 pm
Violence content isn´t taboo in our society. Not the same ways as sexual content. Violence is part off our society so is sexual things. The difference is that how we see on this.

For me personally I think violence is more disturbing. I think war is one off the humans social inventions that is far more disturbing. But is all about presentation.

Our fascination with sex really contradicts our own social taboos.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: marc gerritsen on May 28, 2008, 08:37:24 pm
Quote
Very good article. It's comforting to at least see that the local press has it's head screwed on right.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=198499\")



not nessecarily so

[a href=\"http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/05/28/1211654120223.html]http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/05/28/1211654120223.html[/url]
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: klane on May 28, 2008, 08:49:42 pm
Quote
I at 46 can live my the rest of my life without seeing child nudity, I can live without pornography in general, but I do not want to live without spray paint and spray paint got a total ban in Chicago because some idiots were using it to paint graffiti.
http://AndreNapier.com (http://AndreNapier.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198231\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I'm sure you did not mean to make a blanket statement, but there are some seriously talented street artists out there making some amazing art.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: amsp on May 29, 2008, 12:01:59 am
Quote
not nessecarily so

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/05/28/1211654120223.html (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/05/28/1211654120223.html)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198634\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
*Sigh* Spoke too soon I see... sad, just sad.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: thsinar on May 29, 2008, 12:09:03 am
Really sad thing!

Murray, Willem, Denis and all other Aussies: are there any plans to "counter" this?

I know that this would trigger huge street demonstrations, if it happened in France, and not only by photographers.

Thierry

Quote
not nessecarily so

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/05/28/1211654120223.html (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/05/28/1211654120223.html)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198634\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Murray Fredericks on May 29, 2008, 12:09:42 am
Quote
*Sigh* Spoke too soon I see... sad, just sad.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=198667\")


I think we need some perspective on who this last journalist is...

Miranda Devine is our Rush Limbaugh, populist right wing rubbish.....

Now on a more sombre/amusing note:

[a href=\"http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-now-national-gallery-quizzed/2008/05/29/1211654185774.html]http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-now...1654185774.html[/url]

It seems the National Gallery may be in possession of child pornography (Henson's work) and the police are investigating...can this become an even bigger farce?

M
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: thsinar on May 29, 2008, 12:16:03 am
is the ad image beside and included in this newspaper article not to be considered as "child pornography": they are obviously children arms and hands (naked!) with "obscene" gestures!



Thierry



Quote
Now on a more sombre/amusing note:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-now...1654185774.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-now-national-gallery-quizzed/2008/05/29/1211654185774.html)

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198669\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: thsinar on May 29, 2008, 01:29:30 am
Dear EPd,

If it would have been of public knowledge, then things would have gone differently. There are many examples about it. Which would not necessarily have had a different result concerning the conviction. But if you touch at French "liberties" and "freedom" of thinking, people won't be quiet. You don't seem to know the French.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Thierry, I wouldn't be too sure about that. I clearly remember the conviction of Dutch painter Kiki Lamers by a French judge in 2004: she was a celebrated artist, known for her paintings of young children, living and working in France at the time. For studying her models she used to make transparencies of her own children and those of friends, playing. Often naked. Just innocent young children, playing. No adults were involved in the play, nor did these children do anything that young children normally don't do. One day a guy at the photostore looked at her slides and called the police. Misses Lamers was convicted for producing and owning "immoral" material: eight months probational imprisonment plus a fine of €5000.-. Her husband received the same conviction, since the house (a small castle in the Provence) in which the studying material was stored was also his. Of course these convictions raised outrage. That is: amongst the people who knew Kiki Lamers' work or herself in person. In France nobody gave a damn. She was just a foreigner after all... Mind you: the photographic material was never used or even meant for public viewing. Do a search for Kiki Lamers' paintings and judge for yourself how "liberal" French society is. Here is a painting made by her after one of the convicted photographs:

[attachment=6819:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198676\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: thsinar on May 29, 2008, 10:16:23 am
Dear EPd,

Here we are again.

May I say that I do not know about this particular story you are mentioning here, and do not know about the full details either. Possibly you are right, I cannot discuss it and if it happened the way you describe it, then I can only agree with you.

Still, you seem to have a weird behaviour and too happy to find ground and issues where you can "nail" me down. If this is your fun, then let it be and have fun.

My point in the post you have criticized was not to praise the French nor their institutions or whatsoever, but I have simply asked if they are further actions planed by somebody in AU agains something which seems a bit over the top.

It seems to me that if such a story shows up in newspapers in France, then there is a public outcry, whatever you are thinking, and there have been many examples in the recent past, with some movies being censured. I have myself been in many such demonstrations, not for the same reasons as mentioned here, but sometimes for the same "farces" and to defend some basic values we all believe in: freedom of thinking, freedom of religion, freedom of expression (press, artistic, ...), etc .... And mentioning France was only because I know France, not to compare it with Australia nor to praise it or myself in any way. I don't know other countries enough and therefore cannot speak about it. I am simply curious, so let me be curious and ask.

I hope we can leave it now and let this thread continue its normal course and return to something which is more important.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Sorry Thierry, I am afraid I know more about the French than I would like to. Yes, generally they will defend the three pillars that the Revolution was built upon. And they love some heated debate about anything they deem intellectually challenging. But don't get in the hands of the French "justice" system! They'll do everything to bite your head off. This artist's life was destroyed. She moved back to Holland in deep shock, having to live with the fact that her personal images of her own children and of her friend's children were labeled child pornography. Her slides (a few thousand) were never returned to her. And since the French real estate dealer knew the castle had to be sold in urge he took terrible advantage of her. This is one of the worst cases of injustice against an artist that I know of, especially since it happened in France with it's historical obligation to defend individual freedom. It still can keep me awake sometimes. By the way: the case was covered by major French newspapers. But still nobody there cared.

Best regards,
EPd
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198727\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: thsinar on May 29, 2008, 01:01:26 pm
EPd,

yes, agreed, it's that serious. That is why I wish to believe that people everywhere in the world where such happens do react against such a fundamental liberty denial.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Dear Thierry,

It's that serious...   

Best regards,
EPd
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198765\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: marc gerritsen on June 01, 2008, 08:13:57 pm
turning the tide


http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-ima...2258645397.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-images-cleared-for-general-release/2008/06/01/1212258645397.html)
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Ray on June 01, 2008, 10:12:56 pm
Quote
Really sad thing!

Murray, Willem, Denis and all other Aussies: are there any plans to "counter" this?

I know that this would trigger huge street demonstrations, if it happened in France, and not only by photographers.

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198668\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thierry,
There are many prominent people in Australia who have spoken out in defense of Bill Henson's work, including Cate Blanchett, one of Australia's best known actors who is also reputed to be a personal friend of our Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, (the one who was so critical of Henson's images of teenage girls, describing them as revolting and devoid of artistic merit, and whose comments have no doubt encouraged  the police to pursue this matter and grab other photos of Henson's from other galleries.)

Our Shadow Treasurer, Malcolm Turnbull who is tipped to be the next Leader of the Opposition, ironically happens to own a few Henson works, although he's quick to point out, not of the nude teenage girl variety. The National Broadcaster, the ABC, recently aired a program on Bill Henson's work, describing his motives, intentions and style, although they carefully blurred the identity of all the nude teenager photos that were displayed in the program.

This action of the police raiding art galleries is a complete farce and a throw-back to an earlier era in Australian history which is very much out of step with current public opinion. Eventually the Public Prosecutor will have to make a decision as to whether there's a reasonable chance of a prosecution. I doubt that there will be a sufficiently strong case. The matter will probably just blow over. I think the public will be justifiably very annoyed if money is wasted on pointless prosecutions like this when there are so much more important matters to attend to.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: thsinar on June 01, 2008, 10:38:37 pm
Thanks Ray!

Thierry

Quote
Thierry,
There are many prominent people in Australia who have spoken out in defense of Bill Henson's work, including Cate Blanchett, one of Australia's best known actors who is also reputed to be a personal friend of our Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, (the one who was so critical of Henson's images of teenage girls, describing them as revolting and devoid of artistic merit, and who's comments have no doubt encouraged  the police to pursue this matter and grab other photos of Henson's from other galleries.)

Our Shadow Treasurer, Malcolm Turnbull who is tipped to be the next Leader of the Opposition, ironically happens to own a few Henson works, although he's quick to point out, not of the nude teenage girl variety. The National Broadcaster, the ABC, recently aired a program on Bill Henson's work, describing his motives, intentions and style, although they carefully blurred the identity of all the nude teenager photos that were displayed in the program.

This action of the police raiding art galleries is a complete farce and a thow-back to an earlier era in Australian history which is very much out of step with current public opinion. Eventually the Public Prosecutor will have to make a decision as to whether there's a reasonable chance of a prosecution. I doubt that there will be a sufficiently strong case. The matter will probably just blow over. I think the public will be justifiably very annoyed if money is wasted on pointless prosecutions like this when there are so much more important matters to attend to.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199317\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Ray on June 03, 2008, 07:40:07 am
Quote
Thanks Ray!

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199319\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you for thanking me   .
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: HiltonP on June 05, 2008, 07:49:18 am
Someone's on a mission.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iF6Pch...fkwGc3UIEHeC5tw (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iF6Pch-EoKihSfkwGc3UIEHeC5tw)
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...p-L_rbIjPHyBqQg (http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5jo2CvAGEcm883p-L_rbIjPHyBqQg)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7437003.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7437003.stm)
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Murray Fredericks on June 05, 2008, 08:00:31 am
The point here is that Henson's work is exactly NOT child pornography...

Murray
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: HiltonP on June 05, 2008, 08:44:44 am
Quote
The point here is that Henson's work is exactly NOT child pornography...
Murray
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199873\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Agreed.
But it seems the powers that be have an agenda, and he's being caught up in it.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Leonardo Barreto on June 05, 2008, 11:08:09 am
...The Interpol-led probe involving 170 countries was launched after a hacker posted 99 child porn images on a European website, which attracted 12 million hits in just 76 hours....

You all have to admit that there is a bit of a "demand" for images of children as sex objects.

If you post the innocently captured image of you naked daughter on line you may get, what? 6 million hits of this surfers that may see the images their way, they don't care about the artistic intent, do they?

My point is only that you have to be aware that things are not so simple and that somewhere here there are consequences and victims. I know that there is a good side and a bad side and the line is difficult to establish. Maybe this show is safely on the good side of the line, -- I would have to see the images to really form my opinion -- but the topic is relevant and not so easily dismissible as most here seam to believe it is... I think.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: rethmeier on June 05, 2008, 05:19:11 pm
He's of the hook!

http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/hensons-na...2259014096.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/hensons-naked-girl-photo-not-porn-says-censor/2008/06/05/1212259014096.html)
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Sunesha on June 05, 2008, 05:43:56 pm
Wikipedia starts have article on him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Henson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Henson)
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Murray Fredericks on June 05, 2008, 07:35:44 pm
Quote
He's of the hook!

http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/hensons-na...2259014096.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/hensons-naked-girl-photo-not-porn-says-censor/2008/06/05/1212259014096.html)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199948\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Now let's see if the 'witchhunt' goes back the otherway - after the thought police...

Murray
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Murray Fredericks on June 05, 2008, 07:50:52 pm
Call me cynical....

it was just pointed out to me that this was announced an about page 10 of the Sydney Morning Herald (our main broadsheet), in a single column article after running for days on the front and back pages of every newspaper in the country...

I guess Henson's innocence does not sell papers.

Murray
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: wollom on June 05, 2008, 08:28:08 pm
Quote
Call me cynical....
<snip>
I guess Henson's innocence does not sell papers.

Murray
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199974\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Call me cynical too.

I reckon the papers might have helped Mr Henson's sales though...

Wollom
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Ray on June 06, 2008, 03:50:58 am
It must have been apparent to everyone with a modicum of nous that Bill Henson's photos of nude teenage girls are not pornography by today's standards.

What appears to have happened is that he got caught up in a national crackdown on child pornography, in Australia. The latest news over here is that 90 people in a variety of professions (including one policeman) have just been arrested by the Federal Police for possession of child pornography and another 80 are under investigation. Another 40 arrests are planned for the near future and a few people have already committed suicide.
Title: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police
Post by: Sunesha on June 06, 2008, 07:46:08 am
Charges was dropped on Bill Henson.

Nice.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/080606/21/175vw.html (http://au.news.yahoo.com/080606/21/175vw.html)

http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-in-...571.html?page=2 (http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-in-clear-prosecution-scrapped/2008/06/06/1212259050571.html?page=2)